The Smiley Smile Message Board

New article about the Pet Sounds tour:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-beach-boys-brian-wilson-on-pet-sounds-depression-w499614

I love this exchange between Brian and Al.

Wow, what a great article.  Brian has so much strength and perseverance. 

The last line in the article really got to me.  Don't worry Brian, I have faith that you will go to heaven one day.

Lovely article. Thanks for posting.

What a great article!

What a sense of humour that man has, despite everything:

"He asks what I do for exercise, and I tell him I play tennis and lift (very light) weights. 'Really?' he asks. 'Like your pectoralis? Are you building up your tits?'" :lol

Priceless! Heaven was made for him.

What an uplifting article and interview! Thanks to Jason Fine for writing a great piece on Brian. And it is great to see Brian behind the scenes like this, in real life. It's a very positive example for people dealing with issues of depression to see someone like Brian keep going, doing what he does, and making people happy along with finding happiness in his own life and family. It's a daily struggle to come out of those dark clouds of depression, but here is a man who is still beating all the odds - It's a great example of someone especially hitting age 75 still making a difference and doing it with style and aplomb.

And I couldn't help but think after this article - among other reports and accounts from people who actually know - how foolish it is and has been to hear a cadre of ersatz "insiders" who haven't spent any personal time with Brian in years, various internet commentators with shared agendas and axes to grind, and even his own cousin continue to repeat how "controlled" Brian is, how he's being forced to tour, how he's not happy doing what he is doing, etc etc etc, blah blah blah...

At some point there has to be an acceptance that this report in RS, along with what has already been said by those truly "in the know" to borrow a phrase, is truly how it is in real life. On many levels, including all the talk about the "Beach Boys" getting back together and Brian's state of mind and personal life. Accept no substitutes for the truth and reality, no matter how good the salesmen are trying to peddle the snake oil for various reasons.

Go Brian! We love you!  :)

Great interview. It's so good to see Brian in a lively mood. I love that entire interchange between Brian and Alan.

This little tidbit caught my eye:
"...Wilson has performed 165 shows in 24 countries, with more dates being added into 2018."

Atlanta in 2018, please!

And this one is classic Brian:
"I honestly don't know what happened," Wilson says in his dressing room, with a shrug and a soft smile. "I thought I was gonna hang it up. But then I changed my mind. I said, 'What am I gonna do? Sit around and watch TV? No way!' Nothin' was really happening back in L.A., so I figured I might as well go tour. I just said, 'Well, f**k it, I might as well get off my ass and tour.' So I got off my ass and toured."

 :listening

Jason Fine must have so many cool stories in his notepad that never made it to print.  It must be awesome to just hang out with Brian and have conversations with him like this. 

wow, I really loved that article.

pleasantly depressed  :lol :lol

Really wonderful article, from the beginning to the pictures (loved the one of Brian with a hose) to that beautiful closing:

"As I say goodbye, Wilson holds onto my hand for several seconds, then leans over and kisses it. "I hope I give a good show tonight," he says quietly. "And I hope I go to heaven.""

You sure are, Mr. Wilson! We love you so much!

Even better if you read Brian's quotes in his voice!

Did anybody notice the article's vintage photo of Mike, with Carl on the phone in the background? Whoever wrote the caption to that photo has mistaken Carl for Brian.

"I don't have valleys or peaks anymore. I don't get too high or too low. It's been a long time since I've had serious depression, or elation. Mostly I'm just pleasantly depressed."

"Pleasantly depressed" - love that! Made me laugh because that's exactly the kind of thing Brian would say.

I saw that too. In their defense it is sort of a weird pic of carl. My thoughts were “thats carl not brian. Wait, is that carl? I think it is?”

"Hey, it's Al Hard-On," Wilson says,  deadpan  :lol :lol :lol

Sack the sub-editor

Version I'm reading seems to have a changed vintage picture so must have been picked up.

Okay, does anyone get this joke? "Al Hard-on" doesnt rhyme with his "Al Jardine"....usually those kind of names rhyme or are a pun....for example recently in the news reince priebus at the white house had a nickname as reince penis....maybe im just over thinking this i guess? haha

Seems to me that Brian's recent autobiography would have been a much more interesting read if the writer of this article, Jason Fine, had been the cowriter of I Am Brian Wilson, as originally planned.

Wonderful article. This is the second or third time Jason Fine has profiled him, and Brian is obviously comfortable with him. Great mutual respect between Brian and Al.

That last part is so moving. Impossible not to love Brian.

It makes sense if the J is silent, like the name Julio. A former co-worker who actually gave Al a lift in his station wagon outside an early 70's gig in the NE pronounced Jardine as "Hardine", so who knows. Maybe it's an inside joke or the way some pronounce his name!

After re-reading that article and interview, again the obvious hits me square across the face...It's amazing how wrong some of the fanbase really is and has been about Brian, like who he is, what he does, etc. You know, the basics of everyday life and his touring in recent years. He's having a grand time and he has a kick-ass band along for the ride, along with Beach Boys Al and Blondie. So much for insiders and experts.

And it's also striking to consider why would this man at this point in his life want anything to do with a redux of the C50 bullshit? He's riding high at age 75 and doing what he wants...good for him!

Yes, I like seeing/ reading dialogs between Al & Brian. I'd like to say that usually I don't read interviees, they usually ask same questions, it's boring. Imo the best interviews used to be from any BB except the main - Mike & Brian. Al esp. insightful interviewee. Decided to read this after seeing praises, it's indeed very good. I like that Brian jokes, btw if Needleinthehay didn't get the joke regarding Al's last name, it seems it's Brian's half-humorous/ half-serious plea "Don't be hard on Al", it's good friendly standing for old friend.
Mr. Fine seems to be good at bringing out the best/ most from who he interviews.

Is that really Brian motherfucking Wilson talking in that fucking article/ I mean, dammit, this guy sounds positively hyper, dammit! And I have to love how every couple fucking years, the press writes this bullshit  about Brian being on a comeback. Brian hasn't gone anywhere, he's been out on tour regularly since 1999. I guess that's how you sell fucking magazines, though, always gotta be in fucking hype mode. There was at least one revealing moment in the article, though: "I haven't written a song in 5 years."
Dammit!

25% better?  ;D

Is that the same shirt worn in the Endless Harmony doc?

I thought it wouldn't be possible but after reading this I love the guy even more! sh*t, what a motherfucker.

Alan Hardon was hilarious

Have to agree with this. We witness so many so-called experts and those who claim to have insider knowledge telling us Brian is being "forced" to tour. Well it doesn't get any more 'inside' than from Brian's own mouth, does it? 

It's one of the best interviews I've read in ages. Brian is prepared to admit his vulnerabilities but in doing so shows his strength, his humour and some of the reasons why so many of us love him.

I'm guessing, especially if Brian's joke is some sort of remnant of some ancient in-joke the BBs had in the early days, it could well be the "Hardine" pronunciation that is the source of the pun.

I recall years ago when MSNBC used to do their "Time & Again" TV series utilizing stuff from the NBC News archives, they did an episode on the Beach Boys (with a lot of great stuff), and one of the old TV news clips from the early 90s (I want to say it was a reporter at the band's 30th anniversary festivities at Capitol) pronounced it "Al Hardine."

I'm not sure if or when we will get a book from Jason Fine on Brian Wilson, but I would be willing to pre-order now. I would like to know why his collaboration on Brian's book fell apart. I do think it would have been superior to what we got.

Great Article!

For as much as people rag on RS as of late, they have always featured the group and were especially complimentary to Brian through the years. Before the internet arrived, you did anything to scrape up any info on your favorite group including joining fan clubs.

It appears Jason Fine was named Managing Editor of Rolling Stone in the summer of 2015. I don't know how the schedules/timing line up, but one possibility is that Fine may have known even earlier in the year that this move was coming and he wouldn't have time to take on that role and do Brian's book.

What we of course can assume is that there wasn't any sort of falling out as evidenced by this excellent new piece from Fine.

I think Fine would probably be a better candidate to write a good biography on Brian rather than co-author an autobiography, so maybe there's a chance that'll happen at some point. His C50 article from 2012 is, along with a few other pieces including Howie Edelson's posts on this board, among the few definitive pieces on the tour/anniversary.

Some authors have turned aborted "autobiographies" into biographies. I read one on Billy Joel a little while back based on work started on Joel's canceled book. Unfortunately that one wasn't that great. The best bits were what were clearly sparse but still insightful detailed interviews with Joel himself (presumably meant as a starting point on the canceled autobiography). Other than that, it was a pretty run-of-the-mill book.

My only complaint about this new Fine article is that he didn't delve a bit more into C50, but I realize that's just one of my continued areas of interest. His C50 article in 2012 is great, but it was published *during* the tour. I'd love to see what Fine has to say about the *end* of the tour in detail.

Not saying doing a postgame dissection of Brian's book and asking "what if?" doesn't have a place, but what fans got was an autobiography that had Brian giving inside details of various events and happenings most specific to the years where the Carlin biography (probably the most definitive IMO up to the autobiography) left off. And we also got Brian in his own words talking about past events too, specific to his perspective.

Jason Fine is a terrific writer and journalist. His articles are always enjoyable, informative, and above all very very well-written to where there is a certain flow to them that everyone can latch onto and get the main ideas of the piece and the subject being written about. He also does seem to have a certain rapport with Brian personally where there is a sense of openness and letting guards down in the moment, and that comes through in the article. So yes, I'm biased but I really look forward to reading Jason's work.

Having said that, the articles and features Jason has written about Brian are so strong - IMO - in part because they are in the now, meaning it feels like a conversation and a report about the current events of the moment in Brian's life. Again, it's the mark of a very skillful journalist to capture the whole scene along with the relevant interview points and comments.

Brian's book is an autobiography, which translates into Brian himself talking about events in his life. It's Brian telling the story. That's the design and format of the book.

I think the way "I Am Brian Wilson" came out was a great format to get the inside scoop on events in the timeline that had not been reported in the past decade or so, along with various well-known events through Brian's own eyes and perspective. The fastball of the book was getting the behind-the-scenes details that Brian experienced. And in some cases, he did open up to where the detail was fascinating.

Example: Where did anyone hear the story about Brian walking past the Brill Building, then going to a restaurant and randomly finding Carole King dining at a table nearby...then running into Barry Mann in the mens room, and finding out Cynthia Weil was there too? That's amazing! That whole saga as told in the book is among the really, really good stuff. That's the power of the book as it came out.

When I read Jason's features on Brian, they're once again in the now, more powerful as a journalist capturing a moment in the present time and reporting it. And in that time spent in the now, the relevant and important quotes and answers come out. But the pieces are not what an autobiography like Brian's book would necessarily have thrived on. Could Jason have gotten some great stories from Brian? Of course, he's a professional, skilled journalist and writer. But I don't think a book as an autobiography would have tapped into what makes Jason's features on Brian so damned powerful and good. It's a different thing for lack of a better term.

The book "I Am Brian Wilson" is as unique as the man himself, and has the same kind of unexpected flow and sequencing as his most innovative music. It's not formula, it's not linear, but there are moments of sheer beauty and triumph that pop up unexpectedly when the reader least expects it, or in the middle of a more dry and factual telling of some event. It's along the lines of Smile, or Good Vibrations, or that one musical moment in a song that jumps out and grabs the listener.

If it had been a rote historical telling of the story as I understand some were gnashing their teeth about because "historians" weren't involved enough in the writing, the book would have been collecting dust on the collective shelf. So there is a sour grapes element but there is also the sense that I don't think another rote, linear historical exploration would have served any unique purpose.

I would have loved a Jason Fine book on Brian too, but not as an autobiography. As a biography or even a third-party observation and exploration of Brian in the present day, yes. But that's not what the book was or is.  I'm content and excited to read the next feature Jason writes about Brian. I'm still picking up "I Am Brian Wilson", turning to random pages, and learning new things...just like I can randomly pick out a Smile fragment or Heroes session at random, listen, and hear something new.

Just my opinion.  :)

That's a bit like how a parent would explain it to their kid if asked  ;D

I agree with many of your points. I like the way things turned out. I enjoyed Brian's book immensely for its weird randomness and unique anecdotes, as well as the look into Brian's thoughts. And I like Jason Fine's features on Brian because the rapport he has developed with Brian, as well as his skill, allow him to present a fascinating look at (presumably) the real Brian today. There's no "Brian Wilson is a difficult interview. His answers to my questions are terse, and I find myself out of things to ask before the allotted time is up." That's so common, taking up word count with that explanation for a bad interview. It always means Brian wasn't comfortable enough to open up. Fine gets him to TALK. And he also talks, in a different way, in the autobiography. So I don't have any "what if." I like the way things are.

The RS articles on the band, Brian, and Mike over the last few years have all been excellent.
Interesting to hear Brian is thinking about doing a Rock and Rolll album ;D

Agreed about "I Am Brian Wilson." I do think, however, that much of the credit for this should go to Ben Greenman, who ghostwrote the book. Channeling Brian's thought processes and giving his words additional weight did indeed create a unique take on a tried-and-true format. Artlessly combining and sequencing those memories into something that seamless is another form of modular creativity, so such an approach (one that mimics GV and SMiLE) does seem particularly appropriate.

Yes! BW is definitely a g**d*** f***ing m****f****er! His next f***ing album is going to f**k up this m****f**ing world big time! S**t! G**d***it!

deleted

:lol :lol :lol

I would love to read transcripts from Jason Fine's time spent with Brian.  He seems to be the only journalist with that kind of access who makes Brian feel comfortable.  I would definitely buy a book consisting solely of his conversations with Brian.

I didn't realize Brian cursed so much!

In my experience, the more comfortable and relaxed Brian is, the more he swears. So if he swears during a concert, it's another sign he's having a good night and having a good time. He started swearing when I saw him on the 2000 PS tour; asking the audience "how loud can you f**kin' yell?"

Brian seems to let some four letter words slip when he's in high spirits.  

The best BW performance I saw was last September in Bethesda, MD, and he introed GV by shouting "Who wants some godddamn shitty vibrations!!!!"

Are you serious?  That is hilarious!

We could start a whole thread of songs that Brian introduces with a salty tongue.

"Here's a song I wrote in 1966 called 'God, who the f*!k Knows?' "

Yeah, apparently he did that at a few shows in late September of last year, and I'm pretty sure one of them was filmed, so hopefully they got a great BW concert for a Bluray release.

Interesting. A friend texted the link to this article, knowing I'm a BB fan. She enjoys BB music but is not a huge fan. I replied, "Yes, I read this and loved it!" She said, "Different reaction than I had, but glad you enjoyed it."

I didn't ask for clarification. I wonder if these things read differently if you don't have the context of having read about Brian for years.

"Al Hard-on is going to sing a song called Help Me F***king Rhonda!" "Caroline, F***ing No!" "Surfin' the G***d*** USA" "F**k F**k F**k" 

That's the first we've heard about that. ;D

It's sure to sell a million units.

It's becoming the Chinese Democracy of the Beach Boys universe. 

That actually reminds me of a guy that was behind me during the C50 show in 2012 in Berkeley who throughout the night continued to scream for "Caroline No!!!!!!!"

I've never heard someone scream for a soft, thoughtful ballad as if it was "Don't Fear the Reaper" or "Free Bird" or "Highway to Hell" or something.

The guy was hilarious behind me at that show. It started getting comical near the encore part where he went on a full narration: "Get back here Beach Boys! We're not done with you! We're not finished yet!" It went from funny to creepy to so creepy it was funny.

I wanted to tell the poor guy during the concert that I'm a nerd fan and had been following the tour's setlist, and that it was highly doubtful they would be doing "Caroline, No." I don't think that would have stopped him.

If that guy attended any Brian Wilson shows, it must've darn near killed him to have to wait until almost the end of the concert to hear his beloved song.       

I remember attending a Who show in 2002, and somebody near me was screaming "Pinball Wizard" throughout the whole set, then proceeded to leave before the encore, which started with.....wait for it.....Pinball Wizard

When I saw Lou Reed in 2000 as he toured his (fantastic) Ecstasy album, somebody in the balcony yelled early on for one of the "hits." Probably "Sweet Jane."

Lou, in what might have been his only actual interaction with the crowd, responded. "Shut the f*** up."

That honor would have to go to the solo album Mike Love has been teasing for decades. Every few years since maybe the late 80's fans get talk like "oh, I'm working on a solo project and it should be out soon...it will surprise people...I have a great producer working on my songs...we'll have some surprises on there!..." and fans get nothing. Oh, and in recent years he has his "insiders" teasing it too, online...but still no solo album. He posts photos of himself and sometimes Bruce with him in various studios from Somerville, MA to Tahoe to La Jolla or wherever he was...surrounded by gear and usually at least one studio guy wearing a Kangol cap at the mixing board during these sessions...but still no solo album.

And instead his fans get Beach Boys remakes and rerecords that are usually sounding like they're 15-20 years past their commercial expiration date and end up getting shredded in the public reactions to them.

Pony up, Mike! Where's that solo album? Maybe if Mike and Axl can get off the road for a few days they can meet up and kvetch about pain in the ass former bandmates over some wheatgrass health shakes, and discuss a collaboration that won't see the light of day.

Ha...not to derail thread, but I was thinking about Lou and any possible connections to the Beach Boys, as I listened to Velvet Underground and Nico..just pondering about how great and groundbreaking and album it is, and thinking how great and groundbreaking Pet Sounds is..and how the two are at opposite end of the universe. Then I stumbled on some Beach Boys cover album that Lou had sang on.

For years I said those were my two favorites, and my ideal music would combine their best elements.

I've never heard of Lou on a Beach Boys cover song, though. He definitely was a part of Beach Boys style knock-offs while he was with Pickwick Records, but I wasn't aware of an actual cover. Do you recall what it was?

Let's not put those two in the same category. Axl's five peak years surpass Mike's entire 50+-year contribution to popular music.

I don't know.  Axl's got one great album, two good ones (that could have been one great one), and an EP in that time (I'm assuming you're not including the pi$$ poor Spaghetti thing in Axl's peak years). 

And I would definitely rather hear a Mike solo album than try to get through Chinese Democracy again

Fantastic article. Brian sounds more like himself in this one. His best published interview in a long time.

Yes, Pickwick era. Apparently it's Lou on Little Deuce Coupe, on 'The Surfsiders Sing The Beach Boys Songbook'

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aYIb2uS5XL0

Also interesting about Fine is that he seems to be able to get a good rapport going with Mike as well. In case anybody hasn't read it or hasn't read it in awhile, here's his excellent piece written and published during the reunion tour in 2012:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-beach-boys-last-wave-20120621

Of course that (reunion era) is before there was yet another "choosing of sides." I wonder if, after Fine was signed on (for a while) as Wilson's ghost writer and has done Wilson-focused pieces, Love would still get along with him as well. But as a rule, i'd think any writer who lets the artist shine through in a flattering way is going to be accepted. So if he would let Mike say he's about positivity, he didn't do drugs like the Wilsons did, he wrote a huge hit with Kokomo, etc., he'd be more than welcomed.

It seems to me  that  for whatever reason ( nerves?) Brian has a group of down pat answers when confronted on the spot or in a interview with a writer he perceives isnt in the know . Its actually kind of funny to me. I wouldn't take him seriously. To me its almost like he's speaking to some of his fans in code! "Im working on a Rock and Roll album" TRANSLATED "you haven't done your research on me so go away!" or "I haven't written a song in five years" TRANSLATED "If I have to answer one more question about the 50th anniversary tour I'm going to quit the business" I personally don't  give any credence to these Brian comments. On the other hand I agree that Jason Fine is one guy who stays patient enough to grab Brian when he is in a receptive mood, and also is a guy who Brian seems to respect enough to think about the way answers.

I think you're mostly dead-on, except my guess is it's not about nerves (unless you mean "interview is getting on Brian's nerves" as opposed to "nervous" nerves). It's been 50+ years of talking about a lot of the same old things. Sure, they have a few "new" questions like what is it like to be so active again, but hell, that is a 20-year-old question by now. Brian's interviews should be used for entertainment purposes only.

Maybe the interviews could be 25% more entertaining if he took a cue from Mike next time a RS writer interviews him and acts out a pantomime about his cousin standing on patio furniture, breaks into sobs saying "why am I always the villain?", and calls a previous marriage a "Mexican mistake".

Hey now, 25% jokes are my turf. I know you're a mod, but that's no excuse for stealing.  ;D

Jason Fine needs BW and Mike in the same room for 25% percent of the next interview. >:D

I think you meant:


No

Because it would be weird for me to quote myself with a negation of my statement. But I stand behind it anyway.

Goddamnit. Now you're doing it.

Come on and 25% with me!

Anyway, trademarked joke-references, quote-error call-outs, and Love v. Rose comparisons aside, the story was a good one. It's always a pleasure to read (or hear) Brian swearing, and some of the info was interesting if it's to be taken seriously (e.g., his adamant stance on not joining the BBs again, which I would say is wise for his and everyone's sanity).

exactly.  I hate these quote brackets...

This Brian interview was interesting.  However, it does make me very sad that he won't be singing with Mike or Bruce or even David in the foreseeable future.  Their voices create a vocal texture that just isn't quite there with Brian's band.  I love Brian's band, saw them perform Pet Sounds last summer, but their voices don't blend as well together as the Beach Boys do.  To not hear the Beach Boys voices in any future recordings would be a heartbreaking tragedy.

It is also very sad that Brian hasn't talked to Mike in five years.  I know Mike has done some really awful things in the public eye, I'm not opening that can of worms, but it is sad to me that their kinship (being cousins and a part of the family) has collapsed.  Their situations seem like a big divorce at this point, which is always a very sad situation to be involved in.  I don't think the coinciding releases of their respective biographies doesn't help and ignites sour feelings. 

I guess as a fan, I wish they would patch things up with each other and at least be amicable,  but it doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  Once again, seeing the realization that the Beach Boys as we know them today might never record together again as a functioning unit is a heartbreaking tragedy in my world and in the musical world.   :(

I'd like to hop at one point, when things slow down a little more and Brian and Mike aren't doing so many shows that they can at least break bread as cousins, and enjoy the third act of life and reflect on what they were able to accomplish together. 

Frankly I hope Brian and Mike continue to go their own ways. The Beach Boys' vocals were great back in the day but Dennis and Carl are no longer with us and I don't believe that Mike's vocals would add anything particularly amazing. That famous quote 'they blew it, they continued to blow it' could so be applied to Mike. He had his chances and wasted them.

As for their personal relationship, that is between them but Mike seems to be so envious of Brian that it's hard to see how that isn't going to continue to be a problem.

It's sad indeed. But I'm not big on the implication (which may or may be intended in this specific instance) that it's kind of a 50/50 thing in terms of what's causing the problems between them. Mike *left* Brian and Al in 2012. Brian was on record saying not only did he want to continue with Mike, but that he wanted to be a Beach Boy from that point on. Mike ended that, and then in short order went beyond mentioning the typical boilerplate (in my opinion largely inconsequential) logistical issues regarding why he quit the reunion, and went on to criticize some pretty *personal* things about Brian and those around him.

In the interviews the guys have given over the last five years after C50, Brian has remained complimentary about Mike and Mike's work and talent. Mike has often criticized Brian and those "around" him present-day, as well as continued to dredge up decades-old issues about all of the Wilsons that have long since been a non-issue either due to recovering or due to death.

The common thread here is that it appears to be mostly on Mike's side in terms of what needs to change. What else can Brian do, just based on what they've all said? Divorce his wife? Other than letting Mike force an "alone in a room" collaboration, what else could Brian possibly do to mend this relationship?

Conversely, what could Mike do? I can name a dozen things off the top of my head, with the main thing being simply accepting Brian the way he is. Stop talking s**t on the Wilsons. Stop doing weird passive-aggressive things (poaching band members from Brian for instance), stop nickel and diming Brian and Al about simply using their Beach Boys history to promote their shows, and the list goes on and on.

I'm not suggesting Brian is faultless, or that Melinda is perfect, or that there isn't a ton of politics involved on all sides. But the story of Brian and Mike being estranged as they veer towards 80 years old is, in my opinion, not the story of two people who equally are at fault for their falling out or who have an equal onus to change things about themselves to allow fence-mending. Rather, it's the story mostly of Mike disliking Melinda and stewing on negativity and cloistering himself in his own full-time, non-stop tour organization, choosing to be Mr. Positivity only when he feels like it, and only on *his* terms.

Separately, let us also remember that C50 and 2012 was the anomaly as far as Brian and Mike spending a lot of time together and working together. That last time they had spent that much time on a daily basis together was probably the 1981 tour, and the last time they had worked together on a semi-regular basis in the studio was probably 1985-ish, and the last time they had sat down and wrote together in any volume was probably circa 1979 on the KTSA sessions.

They've been estranged more than they've been together over these 56 years.

The falling out between Mike and *Al* is actually in some ways more perplexing and sad, as those guys spent almost 37 years full time together with no breaks.

Not trying to be morbid, and the guys that are left seem to be doing well and have amazingly strong longevity, but they're already "rounding third" as Howie Edelson has put it. I guess it's never totally too late as long as they're still alive, but they entered that final phase some time ago and things have gotten *worse* after 2012. 2013-2015 saw some pretty raging negativity from Mike about Brian and those around Brian. I guess it has kind of tapered off in the last year or so.

I'm also not convinced much of anything beyond death or a severe infirmity will lead to Mike leaving the road. I don't think he's going to "retire" from the road while he's still in the shape he is.

If Mike wants to slow down and mend fences with Brian (truly mend fences and not do the "if you come alone and don't bring your wife" sort of thing) and have some true humility, which I certainly wish for them or any family members (or friends for that matter), the time to do it is *now.*

Brian needs Mike to tell him that a new song is a mother***er. Seriously.
And then we'll have world peace.

It's nuts. If you read that Jason Fine article from 2012, Brian heaps a TON of praise on "Daybreak Over the Ocean", yet is so off-put even thinking about working on Al's "Waves of Love" that he LITERALLY just ups and leaves the room to avoid working on it or even discussing it further with Al. Yet, how did things shake down after the reunion? It's Mike who is disenfranchised and feels marginalized creatively on the album, while it's Al who continues to work with Brian despite being almost comically rejected creatively by Brian during those same sessions. 

I should expand on my point. 

I wouldn't like to hop in the future.  Dang typos. 

"It's been a long time since I've had serious depression, or elation. Mostly I'm just pleasantly depressed."


I laughed out loud at that one.

I don't really think of TWGMTR as a Beach Boys album anymore. It was basically a BW solo album with the BB's as guests. I would like to have heard a more collaborative album from the guys; Al should have had at least one tune on there. At least Mike got his song included. And there isn't any place in those songs for David to cut loose and really show us what he can do. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice album, but it's got more in common with Imagination than any record in the BB's catalog.

That says it all though, that TWGMTR was basically a BW solo album feat. the BBs. The guys can't or won't make an album "like [they] used to," whatever individuals may say they wish to do. I mean, they obviously COULD. But they don't. They haven't. It's been decades since they did. It isn't going to happen. We can wish they would put themselves through circumstances they quite obviously don't actually want to be put in to give us something we think they should want to give us, or we could just admit that it has been over for a long, long time, and instead find other things to enjoy: the old music, their new music, their shows, or other bands' music. Classic, truly collaborative Beach Boys are gone. TWGMTR was a better-than-expected sleight of hand to the contrary, but even that was 5 years ago. It's over. They're old. Let them die happy.

They are 25% happier... >:D

I wish Brian was in better physical condition.  Really, half the people on this thread have him "rounding third" as if death is very imminent but I don't believe that it need be.  With his financial resources he should be able to clean up his diet and alleviate many of his physical maladies through physical training.  The number of centenarians is going up all the time, even with his prior health and lifestyle issues, he could perhaps make it to a productive 90 years or more.....I'm certainly hoping that will happen!

If he's going to make a hundred, he is rounding third. I'm no mathematician, but that seems about right to me. And that 25% left, well it'll be like the 25% improvement we could expect from...well, you know.

Nothing at all wrong in my book with a BW album featuring the Beach Boys as guest vocalists. Isn't that what most of the great BB's albums were anyway? (Sunflower, Holland, Surf's Up aside)

If that's what you like, no, there's nothing wrong with it. And if that's what they want to make, no, there's nothing wrong with it. But most people here seem to be asking for something beyond that, more of a familial healing event resulting in a gang's-back-together (and getting along swimmingly) effort. And of course that's what Mike has at least claimed to want forever, the whole "get in a room with Brian like we did way back when."

My only point is that that is unrealistic and probably bad for people's mental health to spend much emotional energy on. It isn't going to happen, or it would have happened.

But that's not to say TWGMTR was an atrocity or anything. As I've said, I liked it far, far more than I figured I would. Yet if I'm OK with Brian Wilson music featuring some Beach Boys, I'm more than fine with that excluding Mike and Bruce. Al is the only one whose voice sounds all that good to me these days anyway, other than Brian in his better moments. So if you're going that route, go that route, e.g., NPP.

The whole get Brian in a room argument that Mike gives seems ridiculous to me.  He says he know how to write a hit with Brian, the last one they wrote that went top 40 is "It's OK" in 1974, and went top 40 in 1976.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brian didn't want to have to deal with the emotions that might have come up when newly working on a track with his late brother's vocals on it. Granted, he did it in 2004 with Soul Searchin', but maybe he found that to be a difficult experience.

I can't see any other logical reason for Brian being so apparently extra allergic to another bandmate's BB track. The only other track I can think of that garnered such a Brian reaction apparently was Student Demonstration Time.

It is possible that logic didn't have anything to do with it, though. Maybe he really didn't like the song and wasn't comfortable being confrontational about it, and so he bolted rather than talk about it. (Pure speculation, obviously.) But we--all of us--behave illogically all the time. We're more logical analyzing others, it seems to me. But of course, your speculation is possible, too.

I don't think he's been in great physical condition since Landy was forced out. I mean, Brian LOOKED great then. But that was only part of the picture.

I think Brian wasn't comfortable having Carl's vocal on Waves of Love.  That's my two cents.  Brian's getting older, so I'm not harping on his physical condition, he seems to enjoy being on the road, even with his bad back, so that's good for him.  At least he isn't horribly depressed, smoking, or overeating anymore.  At this point, that's pretty much the best case scenario here.

Oooh, one of my least favourite tracks as well, (don't think I've ever got more than about 30 seconds in over the last 30 years). 
What's the story here with Brian ?

What is sad, I mean really sad, is that the Love brothers are estranged and have been for years. Unless they have since reconciled in the past year???  If anything I'd think fans and supporters would be pushing more fervently for the Love brothers to break bread and at least make some moves toward patching things up. That's the direct blood relative relationship there, and I also think of the various families who could be sharing time together, at this point getting to know each other as uncles, nephews, nieces, etc...These are the people who grew up in the same house and Mike seems to be estranged from them...as others have said, that's personal family business, but for all of the endless talk about Brian and Mike getting together to break bread, isn't anyone a little more sad to see Mike's own family and his own brothers fractured as they have been?

So forgive me if my bias is showing again, but it was jarring to hear Mike's biographer/co-author on a podcast interview make it a point to say how Brian was estranged from the Love family...to which I posted a reply in the form of a photo taken within weeks prior to that podcast showing Brian smiling with his cousin Maureen at a show. Yet not a word about Mike's actual brothers being estranged from Mike.

So I have to wonder beyond the normal family dynamic where people want to see relatives patch thing up and get back together as a matter of goodwill and normal human emotions, if among the fanbase (and deeper going into all that insider bullshit) there is some kind of warped notion that Brian and Mike need to break bread so the Beach Boys brand sees an increase in market value...

Because simple, basic, unfiltered human emotions and reactions would dictate that a guy who has spent the past several years telling potentially hundreds of thousands of fans - via public comments supposedly given in the name of promoting concert dates with local media - how his cousin Brian is still being controlled, drugged, and other niceties must think words don't matter. If Brian did indeed check out and slam that door shut, how many normal people would blame him? If I picked up a newspaper and read a close friend or cousin trashing me or my family publicly, that would be it...done.

Well maybe the reason some fans think Brian will return to the fold again is because he has done so before, more than once....He just seems to need his Mike Love fix every once in a few years....

Narcissists are typically responsible for people being estranged from them.  There does seem to be a sad pattern and common factor here.

Seriously who invited this clown to the board? I haven't posted in a while but, it's time to come back. Mike Love fix? That bugger practically fired Brian, took the name of the band from his cousin who for one has the talent and could write more songs than Mike with his hand tied behind his back. Sue  your own cousin who has no control of what happens at that time, what a jerk. Mike is a vocalist at best and lyrics, that's it. Where's his Piano playing or song writing? Yeah Mike's the Greatest keep listening to your Surf records and reliving the early 60's. I'm sorry but, Brian will always be better than Mike, Solo or otherwise. Were is Mike Solo album being reissued or written? Oh wait it hasn't. He should still be pumping gas.

Take the band, music and wives out of the picture and I still think Brian and Mike could get along ok. They did it at a ball game some years back.

Right. And it's because Brian is simply too nice. This is part of his personality that has gone back years.  Somebody who is so endlessly - and even worse, publicly - judgmental about another person's wife and lifestyle in general should not be given the time of day at a certain point.

Basically, what you're saying is if you take away the toxicity that Mike brings to the table, Mike and Brian could get along fine. And I'm sure that's true.  But toxicity seems inate to Mike, sadly.

Oh Mike is a jealous SOB for sure.

Now I've got "The ink is black, the page is white" song going through my head.

The Brian is nice. The Mike is not
'Cos one of them keeps on smoking pot.
Smoking pot.
What Brian needs to understand
Is Mike is the lord of all the band
All the band

The Brian is fat. The Mike is thin
But one of them holds their belly in
Their belly in.
But just look close, and don't be fooled
'Cos Mike has the fattest head of all
Head of all

Brian is sad. But Mike's upbeat
Together they make us tap our feet
Tap our feet
But Kokomo don't make me cry
I'd rather listen to Till I Die
Till I Die

 :lol

I think Brian has found his new lyricist!

The moment I read the story about Brian bolting when Al tried to get him to work on "Waves of Love", the first thing I thought was that Brian felt uncomfortable because of Carl's vocals being there.

I still think it's a possibility, but we really have zero to go on other than a big assumption. Brian has worked on posthumously-recorded Carl stuff befor ("Soul Searchin'"). That's not to say he's always up to it though.

But my main point on the "Waves of Love" story was simply that Brian rejected one of *Al's* songs, yet Al didn't whine and moan about it after the fact, and in fact kept playing with Brian to this day. Whereas, Mike *got* one of his solo songs flown into the album (complete with glowing Brian compliments) and did get to at least get his lyrics and name on several other songs, yet he complained about not having a larger hand in the album.

Honestly, my hope for Mike and Brian to reconcile personally has nothing to do with seeing The Beach Boys brand increase in market value. 

Even if we're just playing an idealized version of some sort of objective party trying to or hoping to get Mike and Brian to reconcile, it's important to come at it with an idea of where the estrangement is coming from. The "they both need to put in equal effort to reconcile" vibe I get in this case (and in many cases where a third party wants two others to reconcile) is not applicable in the Mike/Brian scenario in my opinion.

Mike left Brian five years ago. It's also clear Mike doesn't like Melinda. So either Mike needs to get over it, or Brian needs to divorce Melinda so Mike can write lyrics for Brian where he cites old BB lyrics and titles. Which scenario is more fair to ask of these people?

I'll admit that Mike would likely have to be the one to put in the effort. 

I wasn't going to go there, but for me personally that is what can be most disgusting about this whole scenario. I think I may have written one rant about that in the past year, but the notion that there is an element where some may want the notion of Mike and Brian getting back together to write songs to win out over Brian's marriage of 20+ years, his family, and his personal life in general is disturbing. Seriously, hearing and reading some of the comments after both Mike's and Brian's books came out about this notion that Brian would or should get back to writing or playing with Mike if only some roadblocks weren't in the way of that...disgusting.

And I came out of that whole fetid swamp of reading that crap thinking, ok - This just isn't normal on a basic human level. If getting into a room to write fucking lyrics with Mike is somehow viewed as a greater goal than a man's marriage and raising a family, that's just plain bizarre. And I won't even get into the efforts to smear and discredit Brian's wife Melinda, both publicly and privately.

The man portrayed in this RS piece is a happy man in a good place despite dealing with a full plate everyday for years and somehow managing to take each day on his own terms while making a lot of people happy with his music. That's inspiring. It's inspiring too that he found someone who loves him unconditionally and is there for him, a true life partner. That's real life, that's what we need to celebrate, instead of people who should know better or are simply ignorant trying to suggest what the world needs now isn't love, but instead a Love-Wilson collaboration once the "roadblocks" have been removed. Oh, please... ::)

But, welcome to the world of Beach Boys discourse.

I'm happy for Brian. And Mike got exactly what he wanted back in 2012, so maybe this "if only they could get back together again..." stuff should finally run its course and disappear.

Finally got around to reading this....it was embarrassing.  Brian really does not have anything to say.  The excessive cursing made me wonder just how good his mental state really is at this point.  Brian used to say there was no such thing as bad publicity, but after reading this, yeah, I would say there is. 

I don't know why I even bother to read these articles anymore, it is always the same damned thing, "I'm depressed, I believe in spiritual love, hope Pet Sounds helped somebody out, wanna do a rock and roll album".  It was okay the first hundred times, but these articles really do seem like Groundhog's Day.  Didn't that Fine guy just do something really similar like a couple of years ago?  Heck, I'd rather hear what Mark Lindsey is up to nowadays, at least I have not read the same article about him over and over and over....

Really, unless he has something new and interesting to say, he really just ought to shun these types of situations, it's sending his mystique or what is left of it straight into the crapper....

I'm opening a jumbo sized bag of dry roasted peanuts and settling back to watch the fireworks.

Mikesthegreatest must be Mike Love's actual SS account.... >:D

I think this sentiment actually applies more to your posts.

He has baited posters back at least as far as the Ego board, sometimes with a grain of truth to be fair.

Choose to read the posts or not.

My thoughts exactly. I think it's embarrassing to read about a 70-something Brian cussing like a teenager; don't believe the talk about "a rock and roll album". The great comeback everyone talks about is just Brian going out, doing what people criticized Mike and Co for doing all these years - touring endlessly, living off the past.

And for the record, Mark Lindsay hasn't done much since leaving Paul Revere and the Raiders in 1975. Occasionally he comes out with a new cd, as he did with Life Out Loud in 2013. He was supposed to have another one out last year titled Summer Of Love. Was selling pre-orders on his website, but fans never got the cd, and the website is down now. Not the first time Lindsay has fleeced his fans - not good business for a guy whose fan base is very small these days.

Actually, the main criticism leveled at Mike has been use of the Beach Boys name, which is not something Brian is guilty of. Further, a common criticism of Mike in the first ten or so years of his tour was a stale, hits-centric setlist, which again Brian was not guilty of during his contemporaneous touring.

Also worth noting is that Brian has toured *multiple* FULL albums of new material. *Any* tour, outside of an artist literally only playing stuff off their newest album, is a case of, at least in part, "living off the past." But I'd say Brian doing tours playing TLOS in full, the Gershwin album in full, and even the completed "Smile" to some degree, not to mention digging into deeper cuts YEARS before Totten convinced Mike it was okay to do the same, make Brian's touring situation over the span of the last 20 years *far* different from Mike's.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of Brian (I think a lot of fans and maybe even Brian himself have grown tired of the PS portion of his live show), but trying to contend there are vast similarities between what Brian has done on tour and what Mike has done on tour, as if they've both done the same thing, is an unfortunate attempt at re-writing history. They both play BB songs and charge money for tickets. The similarities mostly end there. They're not much more similar to each other than Papa Doo Run Run is to either.

Believe it or not HJ, I mostly agree with this. 

But, if Lonely Summer is referring to the last three years, I think the comparison is a little more accurate.

When Brian toured NPP, only 3-4 songs per set were from the new album.   And, having attended four BW shows and two M&B shows since 2015, I think the quality of the shows is pretty much neck and neck. 

Basically, to put a bit more of a positive spin on LS's assessment, what I'm saying is that both bands put on great showcases of BB classics, and the quality of Mike's shows have caught up with the quality of Brian's. 

I think Lonely Summer was kind of making a "Brian's show is as artistically invalid as Mike's", which I'm not sure is what most of us are thinking on either side of that equation.

As far as NPP songs in the setlist, 3-4 songs from a new album is common and more than enough, and is typical of most legacy artists pushing a new album. It's what McCartney does, what the BBs (very generally speaking) did in the 80s and 90s when they pushed a new album on tour, and so on. 3 or 4 songs from the new album for a year, and then most of the stuff gets dropped.

Even with 3-4 "new album" songs on an album's first tour, that's still more "new" material than you get at a Mike show.

People keep honing in on Brian's setlist of the last few years as if he's not doing something adventurous enough, but it ignores that with PS in the setlist, he's pretty locked into a setlist with only a few slots to work with. He's going to do a selection of "classics", plus PS, plus the encore songs, and that doesn't leave much room. I'd also argue that any setlist with the full PS album is automatically a "deep cuts" setlist. I think we're being too jaded if we try to suggest "Let's Go Away For Awhile" or "I Know There's An Answer" are all of a sudden "meat and potatoes" numbers.

Look at Brian's 2013 non-Beck tour setlists. Tons of deep cuts nad even some solo stuff. Custom Machine, This Car of Mine, Little Bird, Your Imagination, Going Home, That's Why God Made the Radio, Summer's Gone, and so on. I think Brian could easily move back to that when PS isn't in the setlist. Even in 2015 with several NPP songs, they worked in stuff like "This Whole World", "She Knows Me too Well", "Wake the World", "Busy Doin' Nothin'", "Surf's Up", etc.

Also, in comparing Mike and Brian's band, I would also argue that, especially considering I consider Matt Jardine a de facto Beach Boy, you get almost exclusively BBs singing the leads at Brian shows. Mike's show features a good hunk of Totten and Cowsill and Ike singing the leads (for the sake of some sort of comparison, I'll go ahead and also consider Foskett of a similar status as Matt, even if I don't think it's exactly the case).

You get more "Beach Boys" singing leads at a Brian Wilson show than at a "Beach Boys" show, and I think that *is* important. Papa Doo Run Run and California Surf Inc. and the Surf City All Stars all put on excellent professional shows too. Mike's band is something more like a high-end version of those bands as opposed to Brian's band. In my opinion.

I've said on many occasions that Mike owes a lot to Totten and what he has done for the touring band. The show in the last 5-10 years is better than it was previously (and those who say it's even better in the last few years should note that Mike poached TWO people from Brian's band to make that happen). When Stamos isn't there hamming it up, it's undoubtedly uniformly a tight, pro show. But it's an hour of backing guys singing leads in a band called "The Beach Boys", with one of the two actual Beach Boys doing almost *nothing* to add to the proceedings.

Again, Brian's show is not free of criticism. I don't think PS should be considered meat-and-potatoes, and I think the PS album in the setlist immediately makes Brian's setlist more "deep" than Mike's, but I also acknowledge that Brian appears to be sick of it and puts more energy into singing "I'd Love Just Once to See You" or even "Do It Again." I certainly hope they're not booking *more* PS shows next year.

So far, the ads for 2018 shows I've seen don't mention "Pet Sounds."  I think after a two years, a setlist shake up would be great. 

I could be wrong, but I took LS's post as more defending Mike's band than criticizing Brian's. 

Less specifically in reference to LS's post, but more in general when this sort of "People should be criticizing Brian as much as they do Mike" argument comes to pass, I think it's sometimes kind of a straw man argument.

A well known former member here used to do this regarding Brian and his tours and whatnot. "Brian's playing a casino. I seem to remember Brianistas criticizing Mike for playing casinos." Stuff like that.

It's not that there's never any double standard or hypocrisy. But this sort of thing implies the same people ardently criticizing Mike are also going easy on Brian, and are doing so regarding the same precise comparable issues/topics, *and* also seems to imply the two bands should be compared on equal footing in every regard.

I've said it many times; as long as Mike wants to use the BB name, he's going to be held to a different standard by many fans, as he should be.

I can knock down most of these arguments without resorting to hardcore, fawning Brianista defenses (and I've said in the past that Brian fans and BB fans in general sometimes *can* be too defensive and overly-forgiving).

When Brian also starts touring as "The Beach Boys", drops Al and Blondie from his band, brings Scott Baio on stage for portions of his tours, poaches Totten and Cowsill from Mike's band, drops PS from the set and replaces it with all surf and car songs and a few Mike-penned deep cuts with no Brian involvement, then I'd say we'd be closer to a valid reference point to compare the two bands.

When an old buddy, Peter Leinheiser, approaches, Wilson blurts, "How's your sex life, man?"

Leinheiser sputters, "I ride a bicycle – it's hard to pick up women on a bike."

"Oh," Wilson says, adding, "Well, you look good. If you were a chick – I don't know what I'd do!"

Classic!