Question about SMiLE LP jackets (ones that got printed)

[Peter Reum]

Magical thinking on the part of a few board members won't make an assembled Smile cover appear. The facts are that the back slick didn't get finished, so how could a finished cover be assembled, except in one's imagination?

I am simply not ready to talk about the Lei'd cover. It'll be in the book.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Something slipped me by - Capitol knew way earlier than I thought that Smile might be in trouble. The memo stating that it wouldn't be delivered by 1/1/67 but "in all probability some time before January 15" is dated 12/16/66, the day Brian told Karl Engeman he couldn't deliver on time (for the second time, apparently - the original release date was pre-Xmas). Thus Capitol knew before the track listing was handed in (or very shortly after) that the album was at least a month away.

Magical thinking on the part of a few board members won't make an assembled Smile cover appear.

ABRACADABRA!

But since Brian (or whoever) claimed the album would be done mid-January-ish, surely the tracklisting he (or whoever) submitted must have some validity. Was he just BSing the label, giving them false hope? Was the tracklisting and the back photo all an elaborate joke?

Capitol was expecting an album mid-Jan and started pressing covers. Okay, so they didn't assemble them. They still made them.

I know why he doesn't appear on the photo on the back. Because it made him look all that much more cool and mysterious. And then he gets the big spread in the book. He's a genius and a man of mystery and you need a sketchbook look at his world to get even a slight understanding of him.

[guitarfool2002]

I know why he doesn't appear on the photo on the back. Because it made him look all that much more cool and mysterious. And then he gets the big spread in the book. He's a genius and a man of mystery and you need a sketchbook look at his world to get even a slight understanding of him.

If I get time I'd like to compile a few additional quotes from this interview Michael Vosse gave some 36 or so years ago about Smile for a publication called "Fusion", specifically describing Brian's intentions on the Smile packaging and graphics.

To sum up what Vosse said - Brian *wanted* people to laugh at the photos, and deliberately had photos included that were unflattering to the subjects - the Beach Boys. And those shots of the Beach Boys wearing winter coats, freezing in a boat in a Boston harbor were part of the game - they were the complete opposite of the "fun in the sun" image so connected to the band name, and that shot placed them out of their "natural" warm-climate element.

Same thing with the individual shots of the band in the Smile booklet - Mike drinking milk, etc...they were not the most flattering shots, and again that's what Brian wanted. Vosse says similar things about the Frank Holmes Smile Shop album cover - Brian realized it was against the grain, and perhaps even corny, but he wanted it that way to make people laugh, or...Smile!

His trip, according to Vosse, was to have people laugh at things like those goofy photos. Here are a few of the key points and quotes:

"And he laid out for me what he felt at that time about humour - which is almost the key to Brian Wilson's scene, if there is one. He told me that laughter was one of the highest forms of divinity, and that when someone was laughing their connection with the thing that was making them laugh made them more open than they could be at just about any point."

He goes on to say:
"That's why they had something as dumb as the Smile Shop on the cover. And everybody who knew anything about graphics, and about art, thought that the cover was not terribly well done...but Brian knew better: He was right. It was exactly what he wanted."

And maybe the best quote of them all, after discussing the two-panel shot of Brian taken in front of the window shade in his kitchen:

"The pictures, though, were definitely unflattering, but they're the ones he wanted. I mean, he wanted people to laugh at them, and he wanted this guise of humour to be so sophisticated that the tremendous compassion - really, the depth of the album - would come right through all of that. To this vulnerable audience of people.




For my money, those words in bold above are some of the most honest and revealing ever spoken about the original Smile project. The Vosse interview should be required reading for anyone interested in Smile. That's the *real deal* from one of the few people who was directly involved in what was going on at that time.

[Bicyclerider]

Andrew - first of all, how do we know when the handwritten list was submitted - you seem to be assuming mid December, I'd always assumed early December, but do we have any evidence for a date?

Secondly, how much lead time for producing covers was customary at the time?  Seems like a month is not that excessive if we're talking about Dec 16 and then having the album come out Jan 15.

[Bicyclerider]

Peter - what book?

[Cam Mott]

Secondly, how much lead time for producing covers was customary at the time?  Seems like a month is not that excessive if we're talking about Dec 16 and then having the album come out Jan 15.

My understanding: From Capitol art directors, the artwork and approvals took however long they took.  From Voris separations took a week. From Richard Roth of Queens Litho, a week turnaround was customary for color front liners to be printed followed by time needed to ship to the fabricator, the fabricator assembled the front liner to a cardboard sleeve and the fabricator printed the back liner in black on plain bond paper [customary at the time]and applied it to the sleeve in another week and then the finished covers on a P.O. were shipped to the designated Capitol plant, Scranton in this case. This is why the covers in storage in a Capitol plant would'nt be incomplete covers. So if the 1969 memo is authentic and there were covers for Capitol 2580 in Scranton they would be complete finished covers. Anyone have a different understanding of this process in the mid-60s?

That would explain why Mike spoke of "sleeves", with song titles, finished in April that would now have to be "thrown out"; presuming by "sleeves" he meant the same thing as Mike Reese meant by "covers" in his alleged 1969 inventory destruction memo.

It doesn't explain why no known final proof for the back liner in the known files?  The memos we've seen seem to have mainly come from Production Department files of Ray Polley?  If the artwork we've seen did too, one would expect he should have had it. It's kind of wierd to use "disappeared" artifacts as proof of a non-disappearance from the same files. Or whatever. 

Anyway it seems hard to say much with certainty one way or another.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew - first of all, how do we know when the handwritten list was submitted - you seem to be assuming mid December, I'd always assumed early December, but do we have any evidence for a date?

Secondly, how much lead time for producing covers was customary at the time?  Seems like a month is not that excessive if we're talking about Dec 16 and then having the album come out Jan 15.

Peter... I'm assuming (bad thing to do, I know) that as the memo saying the album wouldn't deliver until about 1/15 or so was dated 12/16, it was written very shortly after Brian told Engeman about it (like, maybe minutes) and was maybe accompanied by the list (yes, I know, i'm turning into Cam here. Sorry). Of course, this is somewhat difficult to square with the fact that the list is manifestly not Brian's handwriting, nor that he told you he'd never seen it before. I'm wondering if maybe Engeman was told something like "Brian said to tell you...". Anyway, the memo is there.

[Andrew G. Doe]

That would explain why Mike spoke of "sleeves", with song titles, finished in April that would now have to be "thrown out"; presuming by "sleeves" he meant the same thing as Mike Reese meant by "covers" in his alleged 1969 inventory destruction memo.

Mike would have seen the mockup made by the Capitol art dept. Like Peter says, there were no finished covers, because the back slick was never printed up. Had it been, they guy who pulled the front slick seperations out of the dumpster would have salvaged that too. I think the not-insignificant fact that in the nearly 40-odd years since the sessions, a finished cover has never even been rumored, much less sighted, speaks volumes. Booklets exist, that we know (I've handled one). Sleeves don't.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Can the person who has or has seen the version with the red ink on it to maybe give some insight about what it may have said? Any songs crossed out? Can’t we reverse the effects of the dreaded “red ink filter” and use the secret decoder ring to find out what it said?

Great Shape    Baby Got Back


We now take you to another episode of “Bubba Ho-Tep Argues with Himself”.

Look, it makes no sense that a list of songs would be delivered without Brian’s knowledge, unless it was merely a diversionary tactic done by Carl to buy the group more time. 12 titles sounds like a full album, which would explain why Vegetables is both an Element and a stand-alone track. But then, why not just include something like I Ran, which was probably a more complete track than Great Shape, which is, as far as we know, a discard piece of H&V passing itself off as a complete song. So Carl must have had some insight into what was going on the album. Hell, he could have put anything down on the list. Why not just write down a song called “Flim Flam Floom Day”? Who would know? Then again, maybe Carl and his list was full of sh*t. It was a red herring to keep the record company hopeful something was coming, when it was becoming clear to the group that they had nothing. They were going to have to overthrow the chief and do it themselves. Brian wasted the next 5 months just trying to concoct a single.

But it was December and Brian wasn’t a complete mental case at that point, was he? If Brian doesn’t recall the tracklisting, well, that’s no surprise, as I’m sure he didn’t put much thought into the Smile project after he abandoned it. He started recycling unused Smile riffs right away. He wasn’t waiting for some future release. It was done. But why argue the jacket tracklisting? Based on what’s in the vaults, how else could the album have come out? The only stickling point is what “Great Shape” would have consisted of.

Bubba, you ignorant slut. The only way we’ll figure this out is that someone needs to ask him, point blank. Walk him through it. “Okay, Brian. It’s December. The record is not going to be done in time, so you ask for more time. A list of songs is sent to Capital. They work on an album jacket. Frank Holmes. Ringing any bells, Brian? Did you really believe the album could be finished by Jan. 15? Were you trying to bamboozle the record company? Wasn’t “Smiliest Smile” going to consist of more stoned out versions of the remaining Smile songs and feature the color booket? But then you started jamming at Wally’s and realized that Wild Honey was the right way to go, especially since Smiley Smile was a commercial bomb? What did you do with the lead vocal tracks for Worms? We know you recorded them, Brian! How could you not? It would have taken 5 minutes. You record a scratch lead vocal and harmonies for a discarded scrap like “He Gives Speeches” but can’t be bothered to record one for Worms, one of the strongest pieces on the album? The same with Cabinessence! Stop wasting time recording nonsense vegetable chants and get to work! Why didn’t you finish the album? You didn’t need a year. You needed a month tops. You got lazy, Brian. What’s the matter? You make too much money, buddy? When you can’t sing from your heart, you’re going downhill, and if ever I heard singing that wasn’t from the heart, it’s the singing on Smiley Smile!! I’ll tie you to the tree until I get some answers. Dammit man, tell me what went down!!!!”

[Andrew G. Doe]

Can the person who has or has seen the version with the red ink on it to maybe give some insight about what it may have said? Any songs crossed out? Can’t we reverse the effects of the dreaded “red ink filter” and use the secret decoder ring to find out what it said?

Great Shape    Baby Got Back


We now take you to another episode of “Bubba Ho-Tep Argues with Himself”.

Look, it makes no sense that a list of songs would be delivered without Brian’s knowledge, unless it was merely a diversionary tactic done by Carl to buy the group more time. 12 titles sounds like a full album, which would explain why Vegetables is both an Element and a stand-alone track. But then, why not just include something like I Ran, which was probably a more complete track than Great Shape, which is, as far as we know, a discard piece of H&V passing itself off as a complete song. So Carl must have had some insight into what was going on the album. Hell, he could have put anything down on the list. Why not just write down a song called “Flim Flam Floom Day”? Who would know? Then again, maybe Carl and his list was full of sh*t. It was a red herring to keep the record company hopeful something was coming, when it was becoming clear to the group that they had nothing. They were going to have to overthrow the chief and do it themselves. Brian wasted the next 5 months just trying to concoct a single.

But it was December and Brian wasn’t a complete mental case at that point, was he? If Brian doesn’t recall the tracklisting, well, that’s no surprise, as I’m sure he didn’t put much thought into the Smile project after he abandoned it. He started recycling unused Smile riffs right away. He wasn’t waiting for some future release. It was done. But why argue the jacket tracklisting? Based on what’s in the vaults, how else could the album have come out? The only stickling point is what “Great Shape” would have consisted of.

Bubba, you ignorant slut. The only way we’ll figure this out is that someone needs to ask him, point blank. Walk him through it. “Okay, Brian. It’s December. The record is not going to be done in time, so you ask for more time. A list of songs is sent to Capital. They work on an album jacket. Frank Holmes. Ringing any bells, Brian? Did you really believe the album could be finished by Jan. 15? Were you trying to bamboozle the record company? Wasn’t “Smiliest Smile” going to consist of more stoned out versions of the remaining Smile songs and feature the color booket? But then you started jamming at Wally’s and realized that Wild Honey was the right way to go, especially since Smiley Smile was a commercial bomb? What did you do with the lead vocal tracks for Worms? We know you recorded them, Brian! How could you not? It would have taken 5 minutes. You record a scratch lead vocal and harmonies for a discarded scrap like “He Gives Speeches” but can’t be bothered to record one for Worms, one of the strongest pieces on the album? The same with Cabinessence! Stop wasting time recording nonsense vegetable chants and get to work! Why didn’t you finish the album? You didn’t need a year. You needed a month tops. You got lazy, Brian. What’s the matter? You make too much money, buddy? When you can’t sing from your heart, you’re going downhill, and if ever I heard singing that wasn’t from the heart, it’s the singing on Smiley Smile!! I’ll tie you to the tree until I get some answers. Dammit man, tell me what went down!!!!”

"My wife and my manager thought it was a bad idea... so we didn't do it then"

"Ya got any birthday cake ?"

[Bicyclerider]

Cam - it sounds like from your analysis that once the separations were done (which could have been done, and probably were, in advance of shipping to be printed) about three weeks were necessary for turnover for the slicks to be printed, shipped, and pasted onto covers.  So Dec. 16th was enough time before the projected release date of Jan 15th, even allowing for the records to be put into the covers and the albums shipped to stores. 

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

They replaced the Beatles “Yesterday and Today” Butcher sleeve fast enough…

[Cam Mott]

I may be missing something Andrew, what is it exactly that is being proposed was in storage at 2 Capitol plants for Capitol 2580 for 2 years [besides the booklets]?

Fished out of a dumpster? That is how these files were obtained from Capitol? And we are taking it as a given that they are complete?

[Cam Mott]

Cam - it sounds like from your analysis that once the separations were done (which could have been done, and probably were, in advance of shipping to be printed) about three weeks were necessary for turnover for the slicks to be printed, shipped, and pasted onto covers.  So Dec. 16th was enough time before the projected release date of Jan 15th, even allowing for the records to be put into the covers and the albums shipped to stores. 

It not really my analysis really, it's what I was told by these guys who actually worked on the SMiLE album production; probably under 3 weeks if shipping allowed.

According to Voris he usually used Angel Photo Color [N. Hollywood] for separations which would be sent to the printers, Roth said Capitol always sent Queens Litho the separations.

My impression from these guys is they wouldn't print until the whole print/fab job was ready to go; still even, I suppose there are always exceptions but I don't think Capitol would authorize or accept at their plants 466,000 covers which were partial or incomplete. 

It's been 7 years but maybe I can get some clarification.

[Bicyclerider]

Cam, what are you proposing was sitting at the plants - a cardboard cover with only the front cover slick on it, nothing on the back?  I doubt the printers would assemble half a cover.

[Cam Mott]

Cam, what are you proposing was sitting at the plants - a cardboard cover with only the front cover slick on it, nothing on the back?  I doubt the printers would assemble half a cover.

Nope.  No, I'm proposing they would not be at Capitol's plant except as finished covers with front  and back "slicks".

 Also if Mike saw only a mock-up with song titles, wouldn't it mean there was final art for the back liner on that mock-up?  But Mike isn't referring to a mock-up, he is referring to "many sleeves" "finished" "in April" "they can throw out" "because the the lineup of songs and some songs have changed".  Some cut and paste job, eh.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I may be missing something Andrew, what is it exactly that is being proposed was in storage at 2 Capitol plants for Capitol 2580 for 2 years [besides the booklets]?

The printed but uncropped front slicks. I understand they were trashed solely to make sapce available. All half a million of them, less whatever slipped through (maybe 20 or so)

Fished out of a dumpster? That is how these files were obtained from Capitol? And we are taking it as a given that they are complete?

Yes... yes... and yes. Four color (red, green, blue and black) acetate seperations with register marks If you've ever seen one of Derek Bill's original 1978 prints, you'll know it's uncropped, and notably larger that 12" x 12". If any were missing, the colors wouldn't be anything like what they are. Trust me - I used to be a printer.

Cam, ol' buddy, I venerate your research and tenacity... but there comes a point where a good historian admits that what everyone else is telling him might just be true. Mainly because the facts support it.

[Cam Mott]

I may be missing something Andrew, what is it exactly that is being proposed was in storage at 2 Capitol plants for Capitol 2580 for 2 years [besides the booklets]?

The printed but uncropped front slicks. I understand they were trashed solely to make sapce available. All half a million of them, less whatever slipped through (maybe 20 or so)

Is that what the memo says they were, old friend? 

Fished out of a dumpster? That is how these files were obtained from Capitol? And we are taking it as a given that they are complete?

Yes... yes... and yes. Four color (red, green, blue and black) acetate seperations with register marks If you've ever seen one of Derek Bill's original 1978 prints, you'll know it's uncropped, and notably larger that 12" x 12". If any were missing, the colors wouldn't be anything like what they are. Trust me - I used to be a printer.

I'm not questioning the completeness of the separations you mention, I'm asking if the files, what seem to be Ray Polley's files, which memoes, proofs, marked up back liner art etc. on which we are drawing inferences were fished from a dumpster. 

Cam, ol' buddy, I venerate your research and tenacity... but there comes a point where a good historian admits that what everyone else is telling him might just be true. Mainly because the facts support it.

Back at you, Andrew, my old friend.   

Actually, in my defense, I feel I've allowed all along for the possibilities and vaguaries.

I think there is room for 2 [or more] interpretations, maybe someday new sources may become available [like Capitol's PO/invoices/payment records] which would settle it more definitively.  As I said, I've tried to chase down those kinds of records from the contractors involved and they seem to no longer exist.  Hopefully, that is not the case with Capitol and those records still exist and become available with Capitol's cooperation rather than in a dumpster. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. I go with what we have.

Front slicks ? Check (granted, not many)

Booklets ? Check (even fewer)

Back slicks ? Errrrr...

Also, assuming the front slicks were used to make up completed covers...

1 - why are there not, say 20 completed covers knocking around ?

2 - why has there been no substantial, detailed mention of any completed covers ?

I'm backing what Peter (who's knowledge far exceeds mine) say - no completed sleeves were ever made. The closest it got was maybe half-a-dozen art dept mockups for the band to see. I've seen one of these (or to be fair, what i was told was one of these) - the back cover  is inferior in print quality to the front. I'm sure if I got to see it again, I'd notice the joints were a bit shabby. The guy's got a booklet too, and that's obviously the finished article.

[Cam Mott]

1 - why are there not, say 20 completed covers knocking around ?

2 - why has there been no substantial, detailed mention of any completed covers ?

Album junked, covers held in plants for collation with an album, album never pressed, covers never used, destroyed in 1969?

I'm backing what Peter (who's knowledge far exceeds mine) say - no completed sleeves were ever made. The closest it got was maybe half-a-dozen art dept mockups for the band to see.

Good points, well stated, old pal. Agree to differ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sure.

(deep down, he knows I'm right...  )

[roll plymouth rock]

Magical thinking on the part of a few board members won't make an assembled Smile cover appear. The facts are that the back slick didn't get finished, so how could a finished cover be assembled, except in one's imagination?

I am simply not ready to talk about the Lei'd cover. It'll be in the book.

Ready to talk about the Lei'd cover yet?? anyone?