O.k. 'splain this to me: What keeps Al from playing with Mike whenever he wants?

[J.G. Dev]

For what it's worth I stopped seeing the "Beach Boys" after Carl's death as well, on principle. To me it wasn't the Beach Boys with just M&B, and I wasn't going to have any part in it. And you know what, despite my position, Mike kept touring year after year. I did see Brian solo during these years btw. Then came C50, my first BB's shows in 17 years and obviously they were amazing, then the fallout after. It got me thinking, If I wait another 17 years these guiys will all be dead. Am I going to change Mike's mind of touring as the BB's by not going? Would I have a problem if he called it Mike Love of the BB's? No. Then I got to thinking, why deprive myself of seeing and hearing my favorite music because of what they are billed as. I went and saw M&B last year and thought they were great, and I'm going to see them again next month. And if Al comes along I'll see him, or Dave, or Brian, or Blondie too. I'm gonna see them as much as I can cause I love them all and love the music and I don't think there will be another reunion so I aint sitting on the sidelines waiting.

[Andrew G. Doe]

For what it's worth I stopped seeing the "Beach Boys" after Carl's death as well, on principle. To me it wasn't the Beach Boys with just M&B, and I wasn't going to have any part in it. And you know what, despite my position, Mike kept touring year after year.

Well doesn't that just prove everything anyone's said about Mike is true ? The man has NO CONSIDERATION WHATSOEVER for the fans, nosirree, he just keeps on touring in the face of overwhelming opposition like this. I bet he does it just to spite the likes of us. Are there no depths to which he won't stoop ? How dare he have the base temerity to want to actually EARN A LIVING for himself and the other BRI corporate members ? Has he NO SHAME AT ALL ? 

(five'll get you ten someone takes this at face value...)

[Nicko1234]

For what it's worth I stopped seeing the "Beach Boys" after Carl's death as well, on principle. To me it wasn't the Beach Boys with just M&B, and I wasn't going to have any part in it. And you know what, despite my position, Mike kept touring year after year. I did see Brian solo during these years btw. Then came C50, my first BB's shows in 17 years and obviously they were amazing, then the fallout after. It got me thinking, If I wait another 17 years these guiys will all be dead. Am I going to change Mike's mind of touring as the BB's by not going? Would I have a problem if he called it Mike Love of the BB's? No. Then I got to thinking, why deprive myself of seeing and hearing my favorite music because of what they are billed as. I went and saw M&B last year and thought they were great, and I'm going to see them again next month. And if Al comes along I'll see him, or Dave, or Brian, or Blondie too. I'm gonna see them as much as I can cause I love them all and love the music and I don't think there will be another reunion so I aint sitting on the sidelines waiting.

I also, like many others, felt after Carl`s death that the name should have been retired and I had no interest in watching Mike and Bruce perform. That changed for several reasons... Partly because it became apparent that all of the remaining band members and Carl`s estate authorized the name continuing, partly because the touring band and the set lists improved greatly and also largely because I realized there is no point cutting off your nose to spite your face. Great songs performed by a great band so, as you say, what`s in a name...

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've been on the bandwagon a LONG time with these guys, I've met a number of them over the years but don't have their e-mail addresses or phone numbers but I'm still confident in my position and how I vew what has become a lampooning of the Beach Boys legacy.

What they have become here in the USA is one step short of a joke because of Mike becoming the face of the band (and that's equally Brian's fault) but it SUCKS to see what they are now compared to how we here used to see them.

Again I respect everyone's opinions here and whatever if you don't like mine - I've paid my dues with these guys and again, it sucks to live through this now.  Growing up with the music and then seeing and hearing all of them whine like little bitches and.......PLAY GIGS AT WINERIES?  Maybe that's cool elsewhere but in the USA, the band really used to cast a huge shadow.  Now seeing them on QVC?

The reunion gave fans HOPE that all the BULLSHIT was over once and for all and then - because of ALL of them - and also because Mike has been an asshole before and his reputation is his own fault, when it all fell apart everyone laughed and said "oh, it's the same idiots as the last 20 years" and once again the fans get shafted and their hearts broken.

And Jones Beach continues the misery!

Foster's Freeze, I share many - not all - but many of your opinions, and I highlighted some of them. Your phrase "I've paid my dues with these guys..." on one hand is funny, but on the other hand totally true. Isn't amazing how the simple joy of enjoying a group's music can also be accompanied by "paying dues" along the way. It seems contradictory, but, again, it is true. Sometimes I view it as, I love the music, but the individuals who created it, well, that's another story.

In one of your points you included "and that's equally Brian's fault" so I can see that you have a grip on the situation. But, as a longtime fan (meaning you) who has paid their dues and appears to be at the point of total frustration, I have a question for you. When you are frustrated and pissed off and questioning what happened and most importantly WHY it happened, do you ever focus squarely on the individuals - Mike Love, Brian Wilson, and the Estate Of Carl Wilson - the ones who are directly responsible for the situation itself? Why do you/we/I have to go any further than that?

[HeyJude]

For what it's worth I stopped seeing the "Beach Boys" after Carl's death as well, on principle. To me it wasn't the Beach Boys with just M&B, and I wasn't going to have any part in it. And you know what, despite my position, Mike kept touring year after year.

Well doesn't that just prove everything anyone's said about Mike is true ? The man has NO CONSIDERATION WHATSOEVER for the fans, nosirree, he just keeps on touring in the face of overwhelming opposition like this. I bet he does it just to spite the likes of us. Are there no depths to which he won't stoop ? How dare he have the base temerity to want to actually EARN A LIVING for himself and the other BRI corporate members ? Has he NO SHAME AT ALL ? 

(five'll get you ten someone takes this at face value...)

Well, let's be fair and offer the suggestion that he (and most anybody) isn't out there touring to earn OTHER people a living. BRI happens to collect a fee when he uses the BB name (which makes sense, they all own the trademark), but I'm pretty sure Mike tours to generate himself money (and to do what he clearly enjoys doing), not to make BRI money. It' s  a simple return on an investment, the investment in this case being the licensing fee to use the BB name. If he toured under his own solo name, he would not make 1/10th of what one would make using the BB name, so it's worth that licensing fee.

I've never seen much of anybody (apart from internet trolls) suggesting Mike or anybody else shouldn't be able to make a living. Some have simply taken issue with using the "Beach Boys" name. Mike does not have to do that. Just as you can shrug your shoulders about the demise of C50 and say "what did you expect?", so too can you shrug your shoulders at Mike's continued use of the BB name. But some fans who lament those things, to varying degrees, are not stuck in the past or biased or "blueboarders" or anything else. They've simply taken a measured approach to determining that they disagree with those things. To a lot of people, a lot of how they feel about what Mike does (in relation to touring anyway) has to do with his use of the BB name.

[HeyJude]

Actually, I doubt you do. Firstly, it's not a fight: no-one's getting hurt, no-one's going to get killed. I do have a 'side', but it's not the one most folk here, and especially the denizens of the Bloo, think it its. I've not handed in my Brianista (old school) credentials and gone over to The Dark Side. My 'side' is, always has and always will be that of accuracy, fairness and correcting whenever possible misapprehensions. The ridiculousness over the ending of the C50 tour was a prime example: while Mike's press release could have been better worded and definitely better timed, the media and fan perception (from many people who should have known a damn sight better) was just ludicrous. I've spent about 38 years flying Brian's flag, so I think doing the same for Mike (and rightly so, IMHO) for about two isn't anything like as biased as people like you think. But, as my dear father used to say, can't tell someone something they don't want to hear.

Oh, and being picky, Brian's played gigs at wineries too. And casinos. Brian's done QVC. But that's OK because, y'know, it's Brian. As for thinking the British fans considering Mike is Brian's equal in creativity, let you into a secret: even Mike doesn't think that.

I don’t get the C50 thing either, because setting aside all the weird semantics and whatnot, it’s crystal clear that Mike didn’t and doesn’t want to tour like that. He has demonstrated on numerous occasions that he didn’t like things about the reunion tour, and has demonstrated on numerous occasions that he quite prefers doing his own tour. That’s all fine. But why is it so hard to admit that Mike didn’t continue the reunion tour because Mike didn’t want to keep doing it? While Mike hasn’t said in interviews “yep, blame me, it’s all my fault”, he has essentially stated in interviews that he has made the decision to go back to his own tour, that there was a “term”, etc, etc. He’s indirectly at least owning it more than some fans are willing to ascribe the end of the tour to him. Seriously, just own it and get on with it. Mike is more or less, he’s just wording it more positively. Instead of saying “I don’t want to tour in that configuration with Brian and Al” he’s simply saying variations of “We toured in that configuration, and now I’m touring with Bruce in the old configuration”, but the end result is the same.

And why are we "flying flags" for any of these guys?

[HeyJude]

Anybody that doubts John Cowsill's ability or the "authenticity" of the current group Mike and Bruce tour with needs to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8DTQhSNt0. I haven't heard a band using the name "The Beach Boys", or "Beach Boys" sound this good since probably 1974. Yes, that includes the 2012 reunion tour.

For better or worse, there’s a point at which who is on stage does still matter. I saw “Rain – A Tribute to the Beatles” in Reno one time, and it sounded more in tune and on key than any recording I’ve heard from the Beatles’ final tour. It doesn’t mean the band has any authenticity though. There are always shades involved. I think some BB fans simply reached their own personal point of no return at different times. Some said “the BB’s are dead” when Dennis died. Some think it’s “just about the music” and it doesn’t matter who is on stage. To me, Carl’s loss and then Al’s departure was kind of the “meh, yeah, that’s kind of over” moment. It wasn’t a big dramatic thing, but just a sort of a sigh. I didn’t know what a scenario by which the band should retire the name looked like until it happened. That happened to be the moment for me. They could have done all sorts of things to still “keep the music alive” and even keep the band name alive.

To me, especially in the wake of C50, I have a new, slightly modified, measure for what I personally feel use of the BB name should require: All surviving core members (meaning the “reunion five”) that are LIVING and WILLING and ABLE to tour under the BB name should be there. If you can’t even keep living, willing, and able members in the band, then yeah, maybe you should call it a day or tour under your own name. It’s not just that Mike’s band “only has two BB’s” in it, it’s that there are five freaking core members still alive. Even that was a bit more palatable in the previous decade, when Dave chose to quit in 1999, Brian showed no interest, and Al may or may not have had some interest over the last decade-plus. But after they showed what a FULL reunion looked like, and then that broke apart while leaving behind members that WANTED to continue together, that kind of changed things again, for some fans anyway.

[Foster's Freeze]

Many fans also think of Cowsill and Totten as hired hands and guys with zero connection to the Beach Boys past.  You Andrew, don't hide your preferences as to who you like or don't on both sides of this fight and that's fine I get it.  That said, if fans at the Mike and Bruce show are lemmings and only see the words THE BEACH BOYS on their ticket and they really believe they are seeing The Beach Boys then good for them and if they enjoy it, that's great.  It's great you talk to Mike and Bruce, etc and I'm glad they kind of, sort of give you insight to some things.  That's genuinely cool that you are in that position and as noted, I think you certainly have a slant towards the Mike and Bruce world view.  Maybe there's a reason Bruce always liked Keith Moon and the BBB board better than this one?

I've been on the bandwagon a LONG time with these guys, I've met a number of them over the years but don't have their e-mail addresses or phone numbers but I'm still confident in my position and how I vew what has become a lampooning of the Beach Boys legacy.

Maybe the Brits think after all these years that Mike really was an equal to Brian in the creation of some of the band's greatest hits?  I'm not so sure that many of us in the USA deem his influence to be as great as you (or the Europeans as a whole) do.  For Americans the BB's really were "America's Band" for a long time and the association with girls, cars, surf and summer was VERY real.

What they have become here in the USA is one step short of a joke because of Mike becoming the face of the band (and that's equally Brian's fault) but it SUCKS to see what they are now compared to how we here used to see them.

Again I respect everyone's opinions here and whatever if you don't like mine - I've paid my dues with these guys and again, it sucks to live through this now.  Growing up with the music and then seeing and hearing all of them whine like little bitches and.......PLAY GIGS AT WINERIES?  Maybe that's cool elsewhere but in the USA, the band really used to cast a huge shadow.  Now seeing them on QVC?

The reunion gave fans HOPE that all the BULLSHIT was over once and for all and then - because of ALL of them - and also because Mike has been an asshole before and his reputation is his own fault, when it all fell apart everyone laughed and said "oh, it's the same idiots as the last 20 years" and once again the fans get shafted and their hearts broken.

And Jones Beach continues the misery!

How did you feel about the C50 band out of interest as none of the old guard that you listed were included?

Honestly, I didn't like it.  It was *FANTASTIC* to see the guys together performing but I didn't like the band, the concert CD or the DVD.  Actually the Japan boot DVD of the show is a little better.

Let me be clear because I obviously get under the skin of the Mike and Bruce guys, I don't dislike them personally or think they are hacks - I just find them sterile and with the exception of Dave's lead solos, hearing them back trying to play the songs exactly like the recorded versions at times was very difficult.  I'm not saying Dennis or Bobby were the greatest drummers ever but live, they were great, they were fun, they were loose.  Cowsill appears to be a good drummer and if you love him, great!

This again is coming from a person who saw The Beach Boys numerous times from the 70's up until Carl passing away.  MY Beach Boys Band included Bobby, Billy, Ed, Mike, etc.  That's what I spent decades hearing and seeing, that's what I like.

[KittyKat]

I don't know why anyone would consider a winery a low-prestige gig. They are nice outdoor venues, for the most part, and often have very high ticket prices due to a good meal (and wine) being included. It's like an outdoor supper club. Most wineries are in scenic settings and attract an upscale clientele. In many cases, they are also the only venue in their area. I have to assume that people who criticize winery gigs have never been to one.  Brian Wilson has played at wineries,as well as Indian casinos, and once played at a zoo. Not every gig can be at a regular concert hall, acts have to go where the people and money are.

As for QVC, I can remember very clearly that Brian and his band appeared on that shopping channel to promote and sell "Live at the Roxy." Brian did a short concert and answered questions from the QVC hosts. I guess it's okay if Brian does it, or did he cheapen himself by appearing?

[Cyncie]

You know, I went to several Mike and Bruce shows pre-C50 and enjoyed them, even though I found Mike's stage schtick somewhat hammy and at times borderline creepy. I guess I was just resigned to the fact that Brian and Al weren't going to be involved, so this was The Beach Boys we get. And, that was OK. They were an oldies band, right? And, it was the music that mattered, anyway.

But, C50 was an eye opener. At that moment I caught a glimpse of what this band had been, and possibly could be, going forward. C50 was an event that elevated the band from oldies act to national treasure in the eyes of the public and the critics. To find out that they could have held on to that status, but chose to go back to oldies act, was disappointing.

There's a point where you don't need any more money and you should begin to think in larger terms. Do these guys really need any more money?

[RioGrande]

Though I agree with many of the points made in this thread, the tone is a bit overdramatic... as usual here.

The old geezers (said with affection, not disrespect) have given, and give, us much more than what could be reasonably expected. And yes, though I am a Brianista I include Mike in this.  

M & B keep on carrying the music, and the Beach Boys brand, around, and by all accounts put up a good rocking show. Brian has created his own brand by now, surely less commercial but getting artistic recognition and prestige.

We fans had not only a reunion in 2012, but it was longer and better than anybody could have thought, with a great tour and a very good new album. Ok, it ended in a PR mess and some bad feelings, but we are talking the Beach Boys here, what did you expect, sincerely?

As I said, the only thing I don't like is Al always being the odd man out. He deserves much better. But if he can live with it, so can I.

[Cyncie]

Though I agree with many of the points made in this thread, the tone is a bit overdramatic... as usual here.

The old geezers (said with affection, not disrespect) have given, and give, us much more than what could be reasonably expected. And yes, though I am a Brianista I include Mike in this.  

M & B keep on carrying the music, and the Beach Boys brand, around, and by all accounts put up a good rocking show. Brian has created his own brand by now, surely less commercial but getting artistic recognition and prestige.

We fans had not only a reunion in 2012, but it was longer and better than anybody could have thought, with a great tour and a very good new album. Ok, it ended in a PR mess and some bad feelings, but we are talking the Beach Boys here, what did you expect, sincerely?

As I said, the only thing I don't like is Al always being the odd man out. He deserves much better. But if he can live with it, so can I.

Oh, I agree. These guys don't own me anything. I do think they owe it to themselves to at least try to end well.

[RioGrande]

You know, I went to several Mike and Bruce shows pre-C50 and enjoyed them, even though I found Mike's stage schtick somewhat hammy and at times borderline creepy. I guess I was just resigned to the fact that Brian and Al weren't going to be involved, so this was The Beach Boys we get. And, that was OK. They were an oldies band, right? And, it was the music that mattered, anyway.

But, C50 was an eye opener. At that moment I caught a glimpse of what this band had been, and possibly could be, going forward. C50 was an event that elevated the band from oldies act to national treasure in the eyes of the public and the critics. To find out that they could have held on to that status, but chose to go back to oldies act, was disappointing.

There's a point where you don't need any more money and you should begin to think in larger terms. Do these guys really need any more money?

I understand where you come from, but I don't think it's even a matter of money any more. For Mike touring is literally life; for Brian, it is crafting new music in the studio.

The guys have a history of difficult inter-personal and inter-band relationships, and they earned long ago the right to carry on with their respective "things". It's better for their peace of mind, and their health.

Don't worry, nothing is going to deprive the Boys of their immense status in the world of pop music. Not any more.

[Foster's Freeze]

I've been on the bandwagon a LONG time with these guys, I've met a number of them over the years but don't have their e-mail addresses or phone numbers but I'm still confident in my position and how I vew what has become a lampooning of the Beach Boys legacy.

What they have become here in the USA is one step short of a joke because of Mike becoming the face of the band (and that's equally Brian's fault) but it SUCKS to see what they are now compared to how we here used to see them.

Again I respect everyone's opinions here and whatever if you don't like mine - I've paid my dues with these guys and again, it sucks to live through this now.  Growing up with the music and then seeing and hearing all of them whine like little bitches and.......PLAY GIGS AT WINERIES?  Maybe that's cool elsewhere but in the USA, the band really used to cast a huge shadow.  Now seeing them on QVC?

The reunion gave fans HOPE that all the BULLSHIT was over once and for all and then - because of ALL of them - and also because Mike has been an asshole before and his reputation is his own fault, when it all fell apart everyone laughed and said "oh, it's the same idiots as the last 20 years" and once again the fans get shafted and their hearts broken.

And Jones Beach continues the misery!

Foster's Freeze, I share many - not all - but many of your opinions, and I highlighted some of them. Your phrase "I've paid my dues with these guys..." on one hand is funny, but on the other hand totally true. Isn't amazing how the simple joy of enjoying a group's music can also be accompanied by "paying dues" along the way. It seems contradictory, but, again, it is true. Sometimes I view it as, I love the music, but the individuals who created it, well, that's another story.

In one of your points you included "and that's equally Brian's fault" so I can see that you have a grip on the situation. But, as a longtime fan (meaning you) who has paid their dues and appears to be at the point of total frustration, I have a question for you. When you are frustrated and pissed off and questioning what happened and most importantly WHY it happened, do you ever focus squarely on the individuals - Mike Love, Brian Wilson, and the Estate Of Carl Wilson - the ones who are directly responsible for the situation itself? Why do you/we/I have to go any further than that?

The Beach Boys and their music are kind of like sausage - I like it but don't want to see how it's made behind the scenes! 

I appreciate your reply and yes, either earlier here or in the Jones Beach thread I commented on how this is on EVERYONE at BRI, living and those representing the non-living as well.

We have people here like Andrew who will never find fault with Mike and Bruce, the Brianistas who circle the planet Brian, the "Team Jardine" players and everyone else who is smart enough just to shut up and watch the rest of us sometimes make fools of ourselves as we play amateur psychotherapists (amateur Dr. Landy's?) as we try to deconstruct where and why it went so wrong with these guys, LOL.

I've been a fan of the band since I was a kid.  My favorite band.  I spent time growing up with them, wanting to be them, being excited to see them, buying albums (oh those rainbow Capitol labels!) 45's, posters, BBFUN and Alice, getting to visit the Capitol etc. and that's covered a LOT of years.  Look at people who love Elvis, Johnny Cash, the Beatles, Stones or any person from your distant past that has been a part of your life - it's hard to sometimes reconcile with the change that they can bring to your life.  Music is a huge part of my life.  I was a music teacher myself and the song "Add Some Music" is very real to me, it speaks the truth!

There is a definite difference here with some of the members and how "deep" they are invested with the band and I get it.  Oldies but moldies (as Mike would say) like me find change difficult and admittedly, when Carl died and maybe actually before that, maybe the "Unplugged" Paramount shows in 1993 closed the curtain.  That was the last flash of brilliance that I saw from them and couple that with Carl passing, the drama then with Mike and Al, it was game over for me.

I'll cut the rest of this short because it would be 14 pages long but the C50 seemed so wonderful and people like me who felt like the Beach Boys were a best friend couple of yours who's marriage had been bad for years finally figured it out.  We were happy, we were relieved and we were F*CKING IN DISBELIEF that it was really happening!

And then it crashed and burned ended badly and re-ignited all the bad feelings of frustration and being let down.  That's a bitter pill to swallow and for newer fans or those that always say "don't live in the past!" it's not that easy to do.  This statement sounds more dramatic than I mean it to be but if your parent(s) have passed away, do you instantly forget about the years you spent together being happy?  No you don't and just like your favorite car, a toy, a pet, a whatever it was that was special to you throughout your life, it's hard to let it go and just accept what is out there for your now - in my case it's Mike and Bruce and that doesn't do it for me.

If all of the guys (I'm not just talking about Mike you "Love Police"  so back off) would simply ACT like they get along then hell, I might be o.k. with all of this!

Brian has had YEARS of chances to be back with the band.  It's HIS band anyway but yet for years, he wanted nothing to do with it.
Al has had chances to be in and out and something happens to go wrong every time.
Mike shoots off his mouth over and over and sorry Mike guys, he has created a rep for himself that he can't escape no matter what.
The estates of Carl and Dennis want a paycheck and have punched out on the "legacy."

They are all to blame and to sum it all up for me, seeing Mike and Bruce call themselves the Beach Boys seems like a dirty trick - I don't like it but I accept it and yes, I'm passionate about it.

Love one, love them all.
 

[Foster's Freeze]

I don't know why anyone would consider a winery a low-prestige gig. They are nice outdoor venues, for the most part, and often have very high ticket prices due to a good meal (and wine) being included. It's like an outdoor supper club. Most wineries are in scenic settings and attract an upscale clientele. In many cases, they are also the only venue in their area. I have to assume that people who criticize winery gigs have never been to one.  Brian Wilson has played at wineries,as well as Indian casinos, and once played at a zoo. Not every gig can be at a regular concert hall, acts have to go where the people and money are.

As for QVC, I can remember very clearly that Brian and his band appeared on that shopping channel to promote and sell "Live at the Roxy." Brian did a short concert and answered questions from the QVC hosts. I guess it's okay if Brian does it, or did he cheapen himself by appearing?

For a band with history and catalog like the Beach Boys they shouldn't have to drop down to a winery.  When will you be able to book Mike and Bruce for a birthday party?  Oh wait, you can!  This all comes back in my opinion to Mike worrying about devaluing the band - playing shows at ANY venue that will give him a check devalues the brand.  Next time they are in SoCal they should play the parking lot at Chez Jay's.  Play the winery as "Mike and Bruce of the Beach Boys" and that's cool by me.

I believe it's tacky for ANY artist to appear on a shopping network show to try and sell product and that's Brian, Mike and Bruce's band or Al if for some reason he would ever do it.   You may disagree with me (and I think you already do, LOL) but that's my opinion, nothing more.

[RioGrande]

Sorry, double post.

[RioGrande]

Let me elaborate a bit on that "immense status", if you think it's too much. We all know what follows, but just a reminder...

Arguably the greatest songwriter in pop music, and another exceptional songwriter.
Some of the best singers in pop music, and almost surely the best ensemble of voices.
Several of the best songs ever, including maybe THE best song ever.
Maybe the best finished album, and almost surely the best unfinished one.
A catalogue of unparalleled depth and richness (looks like a well without a bottom!).
More than 50 years on (and off) the road.

Playing at a winery is not going to change all this, and I have to agree with Kitty for once: I don't get what's so bad in bringing the music to such venues. Guys in Brian's band play pubs too!

I know I am sounding a bit "Mikeista" here. So be it. If you want to see the Brianista, make a thread about Brian's collaboration with Lana Del Rey. 

[HeyJude]

You know, I went to several Mike and Bruce shows pre-C50 and enjoyed them, even though I found Mike's stage schtick somewhat hammy and at times borderline creepy. I guess I was just resigned to the fact that Brian and Al weren't going to be involved, so this was The Beach Boys we get. And, that was OK. They were an oldies band, right? And, it was the music that mattered, anyway.

But, C50 was an eye opener. At that moment I caught a glimpse of what this band had been, and possibly could be, going forward. C50 was an event that elevated the band from oldies act to national treasure in the eyes of the public and the critics. To find out that they could have held on to that status, but chose to go back to oldies act, was disappointing.

There's a point where you don't need any more money and you should begin to think in larger terms. Do these guys really need any more money?

All excellent points. I never expected the guys in the band (well, most of them anyway) would step back to have that kind of perspective about the band and its legacy. But it is true, both for most fans and the music/rock media/press, the C50 tour elevated things much more than most people expected.

As Howie Edelson put it, they went from Frankie Valli to Mick Jagger overnight, and did as a band who gets virtually no airplay on "classic rock" radio. (Please don't start explaining how that's offensive to Valli either; I probably listen to the Four Seasons more than the Stones; that's not the point).

[clack]

Why couldn't the solo lp Brian is working on have been a Beach Boys lp? Mike could have included, say, the 2 best songs from the eternally unreleased 'Mike Love Not War' project, and done some singing along with Bruce, Al, and Blondie on Brian's songs. Mike makes some money from the lp, and gets some songs listened to that would otherwise go unheard.

And why can't the touring band include Al on a limited number of dates? If the touring band plans 100 dates, and Al wants to do, say, only 40 of them, why can't this happen? Is the financial situation so prohibitive?

[HeyJude]

Why couldn't the solo lp Brian is working on have been a Beach Boys lp? Mike could have included, say, the 2 best songs from the eternally unreleased 'Mike Love Not War' project, and done some singing along with Bruce, Al, and Blondie on Brian's songs. Mike makes some money from the lp, and gets some songs listened to that would otherwise go unheard.

And why can't the touring band include Al on a limited number of dates? If the touring band plans 100 dates, and Al wants to do, say, only 40 of them, why can't this happen? Is the financial situation so prohibitive?

Based on Mike's interviews, he did not like the arrangement under which the "TWGMTR" album was written and recorded. Despite the album peaking at #3 on the charts, he downplayed its success in an interview. It seems like he sucked it up (to some degree) to get the album made (the description in Rolling Stone of Mike listening to a playback while the album was being recorded suggests he had misgivings while the album was being made), and once the whole C50 project was over, we got a more direct answer about how he felt.

Clearly, nearly 50 years after "Pet Sounds", he still doesn't like the "Brian writes album with collaborator and the BB's sing the vocals" formula, and he actually had MORE input on "TWGMTR" than he did on Pet Sounds (both vocally and in terms of writing), and more input than any other BB. Despite Brian flatly rejecting Al's "flown in solo" song for the album (which even had Carl singing on it), Mike got a "flown in solo" song on the BB album.

Given that a solo track and several lyrical co-credits, and several partial and full lead vocals is not enough input for Mike on an album, based on his own description, I would imagine he would not sign on unless an album either is literally or nearly all Wilson/Love co-writes (presumably largely from scratch), written alone (in the infamous "room"). I would imagine/hope if an Al or Bruce song, or an old Thomas co-write got on there, maybe that would pass muster.

But yeah, I was additionally bummed that after it was clear and obvious more reunion tour dates wouldn't happen, after I briefly thought for five seconds about how perhaps they could at least record some stuff and start from there, Mike then spoke relatively negatively about the TWGMTR album. That album is far from perfect, but my criticisms of it have no resemblance to what Mike's apparent issues were.

As for Al being added for only some Mike/Bruce dates, it would just be an additional cost that wouldn't have a huge monetary return. If some promoter came to the tour operation and said "I'm offering an up-front guarantee of 50% more money in each market you book if you add Al to the band", Al Jardine would be in the touring band right now most likely. Just my opinion. Maybe it would fizzle out again eventually. But it's a moot point, as adding Al sadly doesn't sell a lot more tickets. Some creative "Now with MORE original members!" marketing might help I suppose.

[guitarfool2002]

I think you're really underestimating how many people care that it's not brian wilson with the beach boys.

When you add brian and al to the line up they sell out wembley area and the royal Albert hall in minutes, for a reason

In the United States, with people under 35, Brian Wilson is arguably a more meaningful name than the Beach Boys. I work with a bunch of people in their 20s, and nearly everyone knows who BW is -- several have been to see his solo shows. Mention the Beach Boys, and they mention Stamos and laugh.

I completely agree. I am 30 in the U.S. and its definitely true. I told people I was going to see the Beach Boys and they laughed and mentioned Stamos. Brian Wilson, on the other hand, gets major respect.

The line in bold is, I think, one of the key points to consider in every discussion like this. I might be way off, but I think this idea of respect even more than admiration or an idea of "success" is either a conscious or subconscious motivation behind a lot of posts I've seen recently. And posts that have gone on for years with similar sentiments.

I think this bothers some fans, and as a result I think there is more of a motivation to either try to diminish things Brian is doing or to try defending something Mike is doing or has done in order to even things out.

That sounds crazy, right? It's just a feeling I get when I read some of the illogical or even ridiculous things that get posted. This is beyond either the group of folks who will always post ridiculous negatives about Mike, or ridiculous positives about Brian...I'm talking about the semi-regular discussions that often go the way of the recent talks about Brian's upcoming album, the bio film, and these threads about Jones Beach and Beach Boys live shows in general.

I have been trying to figure out where the negatives against Brian come from, and have wondered what the motivations may be to go certain places with the ridiculous claims. With the Mike Love situations, I feel the same way when the usual knee-jerk comments are posted everywhere from YouTube to this board, and recognizing it for what it is I write it off as usual nonsense. It's unfortunately where some people like to go, I'd compare it to legions of NFL fans who automatically hate the Dallas Cowboys. I'm far removed from a fan (as a Philly Eagles fan the reasons are obvious), but at the same time I'm not going around posting how much they suck every chance I get!

Again, maybe I'm totally off on this, but I did detect in some of the more heated discussions an attempt to boost Mike's respect level by diminishing Brian's. Is it people subliminally saying Brian is over-credited, or overrated? That he gets more respect or "cred" than he deserves? I think that may be it. At least it feels that way. But there is a certain level of accomplishment that garners such respect, and at least for a lot of fans and musicians, quite a few of those accomplishments involved Brian writing and working in the studio directly more than any of the other band members, as vital as the band members were to the big picture of the band's legacy. So as "producer" and "writer" of the classic music, he gets more credit for the final product.

I'm just rambling. But that mention of "respect" given to Brian might explain more than just fan postings on the web, and may reach back 50+ years into the band's history to explain some of the how's and why's of these past 50+ years.

Just my 2 cents worth of rambling. 

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Sheriff John Stone]

There's a point where you don't need any more money and you should begin to think in larger terms. Do these guys really need any more money?

Bingo! THAT is the bottom line - literally.

[Foster's Freeze]

The Beach Boys and their music are kind of like sausage - I like it but don't want to see how it's made behind the scenes! 

I appreciate your reply and yes, either earlier here or in the Jones Beach thread I commented on how this is on EVERYONE at BRI, living and those representing the non-living as well.

We have people here like Andrew who will never find fault with Mike and Bruce, the Brianistas who circle the planet Brian, the "Team Jardine" players and everyone else who is smart enough just to shut up and watch the rest of us sometimes make fools of ourselves as we play amateur psychotherapists (amateur Dr. Landy's?) as we try to deconstruct where and why it went so wrong with these guys, LOL.

I've been a fan of the band since I was a kid.  My favorite band.  I spent time growing up with them, wanting to be them, being excited to see them, buying albums (oh those rainbow Capitol labels!) 45's, posters, BBFUN and Alice, getting to visit the Capitol etc. and that's covered a LOT of years.  Look at people who love Elvis, Johnny Cash, the Beatles, Stones or any person from your distant past that has been a part of your life - it's hard to sometimes reconcile with the change that they can bring to your life.  Music is a huge part of my life.  I was a music teacher myself and the song "Add Some Music" is very real to me, it speaks the truth!

There is a definite difference here with some of the members and how "deep" they are invested with the band and I get it.  Oldies but moldies (as Mike would say) like me find change difficult and admittedly, when Carl died and maybe actually before that, maybe the "Unplugged" Paramount shows in 1993 closed the curtain.  That was the last flash of brilliance that I saw from them and couple that with Carl passing, the drama then with Mike and Al, it was game over for me.

I'll cut the rest of this short because it would be 14 pages long but the C50 seemed so wonderful and people like me who felt like the Beach Boys were a best friend couple of yours who's marriage had been bad for years finally figured it out.  We were happy, we were relieved and we were F*CKING IN DISBELIEF that it was really happening!

And then it crashed and burned ended badly and re-ignited all the bad feelings of frustration and being let down.  That's a bitter pill to swallow and for newer fans or those that always say "don't live in the past!" it's not that easy to do.  This statement sounds more dramatic than I mean it to be but if your parent(s) have passed away, do you instantly forget about the years you spent together being happy?  No you don't and just like your favorite car, a toy, a pet, a whatever it was that was special to you throughout your life, it's hard to let it go and just accept what is out there for your now - in my case it's Mike and Bruce and that doesn't do it for me.

If all of the guys (I'm not just talking about Mike you "Love Police"  so back off) would simply ACT like they get along then hell, I might be o.k. with all of this!

Brian has had YEARS of chances to be back with the band.  It's HIS band anyway but yet for years, he wanted nothing to do with it.
Al has had chances to be in and out and something happens to go wrong every time.
Mike shoots off his mouth over and over and sorry Mike guys, he has created a rep for himself that he can't escape no matter what.
The estates of Carl and Dennis want a paycheck and have punched out on the "legacy."

They are all to blame and to sum it all up for me, seeing Mike and Bruce call themselves the Beach Boys seems like a dirty trick - I don't like it but I accept it and yes, I'm passionate about it.

Love one, love them all.
 

Basically, you're just a sentimental sap.

LOL!

[Foster's Freeze]

There's a point where you don't need any more money and you should begin to think in larger terms. Do these guys really need any more money?

Bingo! THAT is the bottom line - literally.

Suit of armor on because someone will joust me for this but "if I were one of the Beach Boys" at this point in my life sure, money is great but I really would think I would get a bigger reward PLAYING as a band again (like I did 50 years ago!) and (seeing) making people happy as they watch you play.

In the real world I think about how cool it would be to be a Warren Buffet or Bill Gates and as a result of your wealth, how great it would be to see the happiness you can bring to a worthy person or cause by being charitable with your money.  That would be rewarding!

How cool is it that you could show up, sing and make thousands of people happy night after night by doing what you love?

I wish I had that kind of power at my disposal, LOL!