The Smiley Smile Message Board

Gotta get this off my chest. The reunion really seems a bit crap now, doesn't it?

Car songs.

Surfin' songs.

Surfboards in promo pics.

"Beaches in Mind."

Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK.

"Kokomo."

That hideous single cover.

Wal-Mart.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances.

Utterly disengaged Brian.

I remember saying that I would expect the worst and hope for the best from this reunion. My expectations have been richly fulfilled.

All of you hepping yourselves up over this should calm down. It's not going to be the worst ever, but it seems like it will be richly embarrassing for anyone expecting anything with a smidgen of artistic integrity. Brian was on a winning streak with TLOS and BWRG. He's now singing songs from by Peterik and being produced by Joe Thomas.

How are you all blind to this? I have been trying so hard to think this will be good. But I've given up trying to defend the indefensible. These guys are cashing in, pure and simple. The album is likely going to have a couple of nice new BW things, some recycled stuff, and oodles of dross. No one is interested in pushing themselves -- only using Brian's band as a giant security blanket as they go through the motions of a coast-to-coast cash grab.

Depressing beyond belief.

EDIT: I would love to be proved wrong. I would so love to be proved wrong. But every step of this process has only increased my doubts, rather than assuaging them.

Dude, the Beach Boys are not what you think they are.  Here, let me explain better.

"Beach".  Lots of their songs are about the Beach.  They like the Beach.  Some of them LIVE on the Beach.  They know there's a surfboard standing behind them.  That's because they like Surf Boards.  As a matter of fact, they may have requested the Surf Board.  Brian Wilson likes Surf Boards. 

"Boys".  They like the stuff they did when they were young.


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What it comes down to is, your bubble is being busted, you've built this band into something they're not inside your mind.  Yes, they did Pet Sounds.  Yes, they did "SMiLE".  Yes, they did many other things.  They also did Kokomo.  Brian's pissed he wasn't on Kokomo.

You're upset that they're not ignoring part of their history.  You're also kidding yourself if you think they're going to play a 15 song set, and NOT play surf music.  Of course they're going to play Surf Music! It's the only Music they ever sold! 

So the reason you're depressed, is because you're finally seeing what you thought was, isn't.

Meanwhile, some of us all along have accepted that the band is multi-facetted, and that possibly... MAYBE... there was brilliance and creativity, and greatness in those surf songs, too. 

Again you're confused.

EVERYTHING BRIAN WILSON HAS EVER DONE MUSICALLY, HE DID FOR THE MONEY.

Sorry.  It's true.  It's also great.  Nothing wrong with being a musician and wanting cash.  He needs cash so he can adopt more kids, and buy more dogs.  I say good for him.

(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1cvruXrVw1rs9xp1o1_400.jpg)

This picture sums it up pretty well.... Mike Love, regardless of the words he wrote for the band early in their career, has given us mostly cheesy, hokey crap for the rest of it.

As for the Wal-Mart thing, it's not their fault, it's definitely the record label's. Capitol is going to squeeze as much cash out of the band as they can before the industry completely collapses.

Also, you forgot to mention Jeff Foskett.  :P

Bravo.

It's not Capitols fault, it's BRIAN WILSONS fault.  You need to nip this sh*t in the bud and not be mistaken.  Brian Wilson would play a flea market taco stand if Capitol Records paid him enough money, and AGAIN, I say "No harm no foul".  He wrote music to make money, and because he's good at it.  This is his profession.  

All that sh*t about being 'underground' or a misunderstood artist, or doing it for artistic integrity, or 'not selling out' is spoken by LOSERS.  Any band worth their sh*t will eventually sell so many fucking records they'll all be multimillionaires, and millions of people you cannot stand will own their cd's.  

The Beach Boys (what, 3rd or 4th most popular band EVER?) sold out before they were out of HIGH SCHOOL.

Again; good for them.  

Car songs.

Surfin' songs.

Surfboards in promo pics.

"Beaches in Mind."
Not all promo pics have had surfboards.  Some have, and really that is to be expected considering it's the BEACH Boys. Likewise that song having that title. We should expect at least one or two new songs to have a title like that. The thing is...will it be good or not.


Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK.

It's a mini-set. For this type of performance you need to have the biggest hits mainly.

"Kokomo." See above. Considering it was to date their last #1 hit (and likely last ever barring a miracle) it needs to be included.


That hideous single cover. Ehhh...don't mind it, but it could've been better.

Wal-Mart  Why not? Many acts have exclusive releases at Wal-mart.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single. Co-writing, but yeah, that's not the best thing ever.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances. Really should be  poorly mixed for TV live appearances. All two of them. The Grammy performance sounded much better from the audience recording that surfaced. Now if the actual tour sounds like that, then there's an issue.

Utterly disengaged Brian. He was pretty engaged during the Grammy performance, just concentrating more on his piano playing.

I think you're being way too harsh so far. When the tour actually starts we'll know. Besides, let's actually hear the new stuff before we immediately dismiss it.

I like Foskett!

But it's bizarre to watch the band doing what Brian has for so long been accused of doing -- going along with what everyone wants, taking the easy way out, etc., etc.

They could be doing something much more artistic and challenging. This is the thing, Ron. No one is asking them to change their name or abandon their rich legacy. They could have done something much more reverent of the music and their place in history -- and made just as much money and gotten just as much acclaim! If not more so.

Hell, they could have done Kokomo. Go ahead.

There's this false idea out here that somehow the reunited band faced a choice between being, I don't know, an art-pop act and big crowd-pleasers. They could have done both. They have nearly always been both. It's not betraying their legacy at all -- it's actually acknowledging and paying proper tribute to it.

I don't get why people hate the early stuff so much, its timeless in representing the california myth and lifestyle of the 1960s.

That is probably true. I've had a tough couple of days.

The time to do that has passed. That ship sailed in 1976.  At this point, all we should really hope for is that they sound good at the live shows and the album sounds good. I think I actually just proved your original point but that it's not as bad of a thing as it sounds. We just gotta hope it's not extra cheesy like the last 80s early 90s vintage BB. Again, the 'real' shows probably will have a lot more rarities. We shouldn't expect that for these one-off shows.



No worries bro. Believe me, I've had a tough couple of years! 'sides, this debate's fun, as long as nobody starts getting their feelings hurt. That's what Beach Boys fans do...we debate the sh*t out of sh*t! :lol

What alternate universe have you been dwelling in not to know Mike Love has always been the front man for the Beach Boys? Cheesy and hokey from day one, I guess, but what you probably call the "early" days are in actuality the golden days of the band and Brian both artistically and commercially.. There seems to be a segment of fans of a certain age group that want to rewrite the bands history and cherry pick a small portion of the bands' career o fit their vision of what they think it should have been.

Wirestone:

As long as they don't do the surf songs, right?

what is wrong with you?  You want them to respect their legacy, but not play any of their hits?  What are you smoking, man?  If the Beach Boys do a show, and sell out, and don't play "Kokomo" there's going to be hell to pay.  If they don't play "Surfer Girl", there's going to be hell to play.  If they don't play car songs, there's going to be hell to play.

I've been to dozens of "Oldies" concerts, and there's NOTHING worse than going to a show where some arrogant motherfucker doesn't want to play the hits, and wants to play his less-understood sh*t music that nobody likes.

Just because you and I like it doesn't mean the general public does, they've never heard most of it.  I would LOVE for them to have done "Ding Dang" at this show but nobody else would have.  I'm alright with knowing they're going to stick, largely, to the hits.  

They did a couple songs that weren't hits, that wasn't enough for you?  What the hell were you expecting?  A live "Friends" album?  How much did that one sell the first time around?  

I don't hate it. I was taken aback by the proportion of time it took up in the mini-set ...

You're saying two very different things. One, that artists would be happy to make money off of their art. To that I say, of course. Now people who are generally wage-slaves typically like to convince themselves that people who aren't are just as much slaves to the dollar sign as everyone else. It's a fanciful idea and maybe self-assuring but it is also utterly absurd. Not everyone is in it to make money. There are many, many people who do what they do because they enjoy the work not because they enjoy the paycheque that goes with it. In order to believe otherwise, you'd have to ignore many, many professions and those who work in them.

The other thing being said as that popularity is somehow an indictator of quality which is so utterly stupid, it's not even really worth going into, is it?

It's so great, I love listening to it... you can pick out all the brilliance the band reached later, in those early songs as well.  The reason the later stuff was so good, isn't because they developed into that, it's because they were ALWAYS great.  They were great when they recorded "Surfin".  

Bingo.

A question to the OP:  when was the last time The Beach Boys actually did anything that didn't make you squirm?  I have no idea how you could've expected this Celebration tour to be limited of some of the things you've apparently grown to despise (surfing songs, car songs, surfboards in pictures)?  The Wal-Mart deal?  Who the hell cares?  It's not like they're releasing the actual album directly though Wal-mart..it's some promo magazine with a sampler CD.  Big whoop. 

You have every right to voice your displeasure with the very little that has happened in these recent months but as Ron points out, there was no other way this was going to end for you considering you were waiting on some very unattainable hopes and expectations for this tour.   

I've went into it many, many times on this board, and

YES Quantity reflects QUALITY.  

PERIOD.  

You'll have to agree to disagree, because I've heard it all before.  

If you're a musician and you make a song 10 people like, great.  If you're Lil' Wayne, you're better.  Period.  

None of what you're saying I said are things I actually said.

Of course they play their hits. Of course they embrace their legacy.

It's a question of emphasis and proportion.

So Van Gogh hardly sold any art in his lifetime. In fact, it wasn't until about 20 years after he died did his work start to get an audience. So explain to me how his paintings got better in quality?

As for that surf board. Yeah stereotype. BFWIW Bruce still surfs at almost 70! More power to him.

THE FIRST TWO THINGS YOU BULLETED WERE

Car songs.

Surf Songs.


So just own what you were saying! Don't play semantics, you're pissed they're playing car and surf songs.  Be a man, don't try to change what you're saying.  YOU DONT LIKE SURF SONGS.  

LOL  Just get with it man.  


BTW, Did you know Mike Love is going to be TELLING JOKES at every show?  Did you know they're all OLD now?  Did you know JOHN STAMOS is going to be there... a Lot?

Just quit while you've still got some kind of imaginary band in your head, man.  You're so confused about this it's just pitiful.

Sounds like you needed a vent  - well done!

Personally, I find it important to differentiate between desires and expectations.

There's lots of things I would love our boys to do re these celebrations (including a visit to Melbourne if no where else in Australia   :lol)

I have expectations of what the boys will do, based on their behaviour over the past 30/35 of 50 years,  - and while none of my expectations have been exceeded (a desire), they're cranking out what I expected they would, and I'm going to go with what I can while I can.

They nearly made the Paley sessions into an album. Retro sounding music that was still artistically interesting. Soul Searching and YSAM are pretty good. I like the live version of Summer in Paradise. I like the Stars and Stripes version of Caroline, No. I like Don't Fight the Sea.

I love the band.

And I don't hate the surf or car songs. I do, however, see them as only a chapter in the lengthy life of an ambitious and confounding band. And a compelling tour could embrace the hits and the arty stuff and reap the band both money and acclaim. And the fact that the band doesn't seem to be seeing it that way is sadly telling.

I am looking forward to the reunion shows and album no matter what - as a dyed-in-the-wool fan, I have gone through periods of listening to BB85 and Still Cruisin', trying to find something good or worthwhile in the group's lesser work. Now I will have a new album from the group - and I expect at least a few good tunes on it.

Overall, though, you seem to be correct that they are taking the easy way out. Why Joe Thomas is involved, I have no idea. I feel the same way about the remake of "Do It Again" - it is beneath their station in the world of modern music to do a remake as their big reunion single. This is also the problem with the non-BW or BB-penned material; these guys are known to us as innovators and songwriters.

Unfortunately, the group's period of innovation was only a little bit longer than their early period of "fun and sun" songs, so we are tilting at windmills if we expect them to play up the image of rock pioneers. The beach stuff sells, and they're going to deliver it in spades.

Plus, in terms of integrity and spirit, I would imagine that Carl is truly missed. Dave seems to have integrity, but he is not in a position to call the shots.

With all of that said, Al and Brian seem excited to go out on tour with Mike and Bruce. We know that they are aware of the artistic stakes with this record. Mike has mellowed out in recent years, and he has compared some of the new material to Pet Sounds. There is still an album we haven't heard and a tour we haven't seen, so let's hope for the best... I know that I will enjoy the reunion in the worst case scenario.

If the Boys give their "wilderness years" some exposure in the setlists and push themselves to make a great final album, I will be very pleased indeed.

The Paley sessions made into an album would have been a game changer for the group and restored artistic confidence.

Har. I don't have an imaginary band in my head. I have the band that's existed for 50 years now. The one that recorded Pet Sounds, and Smiley Smile, and Friends, and Holland and Love You.

And I mentioned cars and surf songs first because they were a notable presence in the mini-set. No one would expect them to be absent from a BB50 tour. But I would have sure hoped a mini-set for a national audience would have a bit less pandering.

The point of the Beach Boys, to me, has always been that they embrace the poles of extreme crowd-pleasing commercialism and introverted self-expression. It's not insane, it's not out of line, to expect that the half-century reunion of such a band would embrace and celebrate both.

That's a good argument! People bring that one up all the time.  

Isn't it obvious?  Are you really that clueless?

Times change.  Lil Wayne is quality now.  The Beach Boys were quality at one time, but record sales will show you they no longer are.  

Van Gogh was sh*t when he was alive.  Now he's one of the most 'quality' painters that ever lived.  

Times change.  Surely you know this?  Those flowered shirts the boys are wearing in those 80's pictures?  That was the highest quality stuff you could buy at the time! They were all millionaires, and that's what they wore!  

If you wore that now, it'd be ridiculous. Why?  It's out of date.  

Dates change.  Quality changes.  What is quality now will not always be.

Go edit your first post and delete the bitching about surfing and car songs then, you made a mistake. 

Nah.

I get what you're saying and support your intentions.  As we're all Beach Boys fans here, I think it's safe to say that we all hope for the best on the new tour.  We want them to go out there and remind people that they were more than just a "fun in the sun" band.  Whether we like it or not...the proportions between the fun songs and the avant-garde stuff will certainly be uneven.  There is no way around it.  It's just the matter of accepting it.  The people going to these shows are your basic Joe Public.  They have an absolutely huge catalog, and to satisfy both the general public and the people on this board would be utterly impossible.  There is no guarantee they'll be able to tour again in the future...so right now, they have only one shot to go out there and succeed on this tour.  Whether we like it or not, the car and surf songs are going to be a big part of the equation.

 http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/music/articles/2012/04/20/20120420beach-boys-reunion-tour-phoenix-concert.html#ixzz1sd3KHgjQ


As to what fans can expect, Mike Love told The Republic, "I think it makes a lot of sense to do the songs we're known best for, but then, artistically, I think there will be several songs in the set that hardcore true fans will really like listening to, too, but the general audience will like as well. I mean, there are some great, beautiful songs that can be done. But I think it would be a drag for people to come hoping to hear 'California Girls' and we didn't do it. Or 'Good Vibrations.' "




Ok Mike read some threads on this site to hear what songs the 'hardcore' want to hear!

Perception can change.  Tastes can change, attitudes can change.  Quality does not.  "Pet Sounds", for instance, was just as brilliant in 1966, when it was received rather luke-warmly in the U.S., than it is in 2012, where it has mass critical acclaim.  My attitudes or anyone else's did not make it a better album.  Ditto with Van Gogh.  

This is actually why I still have hopes for the reunion. Not because of Brian -- he needs others for quality control. Not because of Al -- he just wants his songs on the record. Not because of Bruce -- he just likes to get along.

I actually think Mike has a good viewpoint on the band's history and legacy. His European setlists prove it. So I actually think he may be a really important factor in presenting a good show. (And make no mistake: I still think he's an ace frontman.)

It's the members of this message board; we are not the "meat and potatoes" crowd but how large of percentage of Beach Boys' fans are we?

I think you're both right. You can't make something retroactively suck, but something of poor quality would not continue to sell. It may not be our cup of tea, but if something that's not a novelty hit sells there's generally a reason.

You keep telling yourself that.  Maybe it'll be true if you think it long enough.  

Keep telling yourself that 18 year old girl who enjoys lil' Wayne's music as much as you enjoy the Beach Boys is wrong, and his music isn't quality, because you were born a different day than she was.  Or the other 10 million people who downloaded his album.  Or the Thousands of people at his concerts, etc.  

Keep telling yourself you know quality and they don't :)  

If you ever get tired of that, come back here, and I'll explain to you : It's all subjective.  

Ron, are you a member of the Mike Love fan club? ;D

Yup.  Time always tells, but the whole passing off somebody's favorite band as higher quality than millions of others favorite band gets old to me.  If a band sells, generally there's a reason. 

ABSOLUTELY!  I love Mike Love. 

mikelovefanclub.com

Is that so?  Then what about that statement?  Is your view, which you're objectively espousing to everyone, also not just as subjective?  

It's not just temporal. There will be certain art that goes over very well in a particular location. Does it follow then that's something is quality in one location, but not in another? At the same time there is also the frequent case of an artist's work becoming more successful immediately after their death.

The conclusion here is obviously not that the same art is sh*t is then great. The conclusion is that no one, certainly not you, is in any position to comment on what is good and what isn't given that "goodness" is so clearly unstable and so relative to particular audiences.

Car songs.

Surfin' songs.

I love them. I grew up on them.  I want to hear them.

It will be nice if they include lesser known or even obscure tunes in the set. But, I don't want to find myself in a sea of yawners, either. I want the concert to be, as Little Ronnie Dawson sang, "Action packed! Hear me? Action packed!"

Of course!  I'm not the first, or the subjectively brightest to say that everything is realitive to the observer. 

Thank you, you finally got it!  Glad we now agree.  Quantity = Quality.

I tell you one thing that we should be thankful for...the setlist is probably not going to have non-BB sonds like Duke of Earl. Now THAT was an embarrassment (imho of course)

I'll bet they do some of that... for instance, I wouldn't mind them doing something like "Long Tall Texan" or whatever it was called.  Something about that, I always liked.  It'd probably be pretty stupid, though, as old as they are now.  Subjectively of course. 

And I'm glad that we agree that quantity doesn't equal quality. Boy, that's easy. When you stoop so low, magical things can happen.

Then you're contradicting yourself.  If it's all subjective, as you say, then it's meaningless for you to disagree with me (or anyone else) since, by your logic, my view is just as valid as yours.  But you are disagreeing with me and others, by pointing out how things actually (objectively) "are", which shows you're not nearly as subjective about it as you think. 

But we're derailing the thread.  Back to the merits/demerits of the reunion... 

I'm not going to these shows for the setlists. If I went there to want to hear Aren't You Glad or The TM Song I think I would be horribly disapointed. We may never get to see this lineup again. How time do we have left with these guys around?

As others have said, I think there's a middle ground that can be achieved.  A balance that will please both the "meat and potatoes" crowd and the hardcore fans like us.  I don't think anyone is asking them to ignore their musical history - the surf and car songs are awesome in their own ways, and deserve to be right there with songs like "God Only Knows" and "Surf's Up."   The issue Wirestone touched on that I agree with has more to do with image than the music they're playing.

I've never particularly liked the fact that the image they present to the public sells them short in terms of how good the music really was.  This has been a problem right from the beginning, and it persists today.  That's why they will never be taken as seriously as the Beatles, the Stones, etc.  I understand that the beach images and the surfboards are a necessary evil where the general public is concerned, but unfortunately they all serve to pander to this idea of what people have always thought of them as, this somewhat cheesy group of guys who sang about surfing, cars and girls.  Not artists who gave us some of the best music of the rock n' roll era.  

The general public has never really taken them seriously as artists, and aside from brief periods in the 60's and 70's, they haven't done much to help their case in that department.  Brian has managed to establish himself in the last 10 years or so as one of the more important artists of the latter 20th century, and has made some damn good records that allow him to maintain that status with the public.  I'm not saying that the Beach Boys should be following that path through this reunion celebration, but I do hope that they allow themselves to be seen as the great artists that they were, rather than "that band who did Kokomo and Surfer Girl."    

is this a parody of a phil thread?? i expect more from wirestone..

Don't act like you won't be screaming like a Justin Bieber fan when you see the reunion show, Wirestone. Hope things start to get cool soon. ;D

Yeah, if it comes on like a meat/potatoes show that would suck. Especially since we know the material the band are capable of doing. And I'm almost glad I won't be seeing one just so I will never have to hear Kokomo live.

It's still a little too early to tell. When someone tells me the first reunion show consists of Mike Love going 'wheeeeeeen' for half an hour and Al tuning his guitar as Bruce sits in row five and Brian and David hangi out with the Carl hologram whilst Foskett walks over to the soundboard to turn his mic up and wipe his dick on the front row, I'll be concerned.

Sorry.

It's perhaps a bit overwrought. But I've never been a huge fan or believer in the reunion. I was cautiously optimistic at first, and I reserve the right to be cautiously optimistic again, once we actually see full shows or the album.

I have to say, Chris Brown captured the intention of my thoughts perfectly, especially as it relates to Brian's solo career.


I honestly thought that we would be getting something close to TLOS with the Beach Boys on it. Which would be awesome. But now that I'm seeing those Islandy, Beachy titles -- well it makes me worry.

I hope so. I've spent enough money on the tickets already!

I like you Wirestone, you really know your shtuff, but I think you just wanna stir the poo with this thread!   ;D

I personally don't give a rat's behind if The Beach Boys get up on stage and sing Shortenin' Bread, do the Star Spangled Banner with Jeff Foskett more prominent in the vocal mix, then fart into their microphones for the encore. And for all I care they can release an album containing songs not written by Brian Wilson, then have Capitol release one more Greatest Hits comp of songs we've heard 477 times already.

Everything they do during this anniversary year will be a bonus, and I'm grateful for anything they can muster up. It's fantastic that these guys are reuniting at all, much less doing a tour and releasing a new album, considering the legal issues and other crap they've gone through the past few years. I'm excited, and they'd have to shoot me to keep me away from the upcoming celebration.

P.S. I'll be the first in line at Walmart, and will grab me a CD as soon as I get around the obese women and trailer trash roaming the aisles. Then I'll buy a BB 50th Anniversary commemorative  shirt, shorts, poster, hanging mobile, frisbee and beach ball combo, balloons, coffee mug, key chain.............hey, I only live twice!

I thought the last time I saw the Beach Boys was 1997, just before Carl passed and I never knew it was going to be the last time.  The last time I saw the Boys with Brian was 1989 under Landy's spell.  I thought the last album was SIP. What can we possibly be upset about?  This is  all unexpected bliss. If you aren't pleased with the reunion, just ignore 2012 and go with Beach Boys ending with Carl's demise, Love v. Jardine and Summer in Paradise.

The prospect of Brian with the Beach Boys was always scary in the past and one can only hope it will be different this time.  He has a lot of his band with him, but that could mean he'll just let them do the heavy lifting (aka having Foskett sing his parts louder than him).  I'm glad Brian is out there with them, but I hope he gets off his high horse or his fears or whatever made him mess up in the past and do himself proud.  I don't expect that much from Mike and Bruce other than what they usually give, though I hope it's a better version than the terrible Sonoma/Marin County Fair show I saw them do years ago.  Mike needs to not talk so much, no wonder his singing voice has gotten weak.  If I do wind up going in the end, it will be for Al and David Marks.  I'm still on the fence about whether to go and tickets are still available, so maybe.  I do have low expectations.

I'm with you, and Chris Brown, on that.  I also have the same worries.  And it's not so much that I'm against a summer/beach/California song per se.  After all, since TLOS is mentioned, there are songs such as "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl" and "Southern California" (and other various references) on there.  Even songs like "I Got Rhythm" and "They Can't Take That Away From Me" off BWRG have vintage Beach Boys arrangements; however, they are very tastefully done and there's some depth to the songs.  There's a lot going on there.  It sounds inspired.  There's a difference between being influenced from your past and being a parody of yourself.  Brian has mostly done a good job at the former in recent years.  

So when you hear titles such as "Beaches In Mind" or Al talking about "cute little islandy songs", you can't help but think Jimmy Buffett-esque kitsch.  I mean, your first album in a couple of decades, and you want "cute"?  I can already hear the cliche islandy percussion, vibraphones, fake party noises, with Mike name-dropping beaches, old song titles, or whatever.  In other words, a "Kokomo" re-write.  And perhaps it's premature to speculate on songs we haven't heard, but after the past 30-35 years, the concerns aren't unfounded, either.  I'm not necessarily opposed to summer/beach songs in themselves.  But if you're going to do it, that doesn't mean you have to be shallow, surfacey, and predictable.  The beach, the sun, and the sea, can actually be ripe for very deep and captivating stuff.  To me, that's the main difference between their beach songs from their heyday from their latter day attempts.  Although, to be fair, I am encouraged by the possibility of "Summer's Gone".  Given their age and history, that could be a very deep, interesting, captivating song that both gets their beach fix in, but also explores things beyond the surface.  

Ultimately, I think, in some sense, with the rise of Brian's reputation and the recent releases of "SMiLE", I was hoping for a bit of a cleansing, if you will.  After so much that's gone wrong for the band over the past few decades, musically, personally, and in terms of their reputation/image, perhaps I expected some of those demons to be excised.  And that could still happen.  They have been doing some things right, although there are a few things that are making me uncomfortable.  But we shall see...  

You know, after seeing Carl and Dennis on stage with Brian all those years ago, I can't help but feel that, DAMN, I really wish Brian could have his brothers on stage with him this year. I think any issues of stage fright and stress and whatever insecurities still might linger in Brian's mind would be greatly diminished or eliminated. I think Brian was happier when his brothers were on stage with him - I think Carl was more or less a security blanket for him. Not that Brian needs one..........but hopefully they'll recognize Carl and Dennis with a little tribute and if it's well done, it should be something.

:(

I think Carl's influence is very much missed. The 93 boxed set shows were a model of this sort of thing.

Are you just now realizing this? How in the world is this not the most plainly obvious thing to anyone on this board?

I applaud this post Wirestone. I don't entirely agree with you, but on most of the points you are spot on.

Not having any Pet Sounds songs in that set? That is ridiculous. Yes, I understand it was a "meat and potatoes" thing, but lets be honest, "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "Sloop John B", and "God Only Knows" are meat and potatoes. Even "Caroline No" coulda worked.

And "Beaches in Mind". As I said in another thread, I find it appalling that Mike Love thinks, that because The Beach Boys are a recording entity once again, that his lyrics need to be beachy, summery tropical island goop. That recent batch of songs he did for what he was hoping to be his new solo album didn't contain ANY beach, summer, or island themes. The songs themselves weren't that great, but the lyrics were pretty decent. So it's obvious Mike can still write a decent lyric. So why "Beaches in Mind"? Or "Summer's Gone"? It probably just goes to the fact that Mike thinks it's commercial, and he's probably hoping for some kind of beachy novelty hit one last time, which I feel is kinda slimey. But oh well. However, how funny would it be if we end up seeing the writing credits for those songs and all they say is "B. Wilson"!

And I totally understand that if The Beach Boys play a show, they are gonna do the surf and car songs. And that is great. I'll enjoy it. However, do we really need "409" and "Shut Down" at the expense of say, a "Caroline No" or a "This Whole World" or a "Good Timin'"? It just seems kinda like these guys talk a great game about mixing it up, but at the end of the day are scared they might not succeed if they don't load up on the super early material. I'm not saying that they should come out and play the whole Holland album or pull out "A Thing or Two" as a surprise track, but it would be nice for them to at least fucking acknowledge masterworks like "This Whole World", "Good Timin'", "Cool, Cool Water" or even something like "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone". But we'll probably end up with "California Dreamin'" so those confused people who thought The Beach Boys originally did that one in the 1960s will be happy.

But at the end of the day I'm happy with how things are going. Brian Wilson is back with The Beach Boys! He's producing a brand new album for them and he's been sounding better than he has in nearly 40 years! I'm sure at the least, we'll get a few new B. Wilson Beach Boys classics. We are also getting a new box set which I'm sure will have some awesome surprises for us. And I'm sure the setlists will end up being pretty good at the end of the day. Maybe not perfect for our tastes, but I think they'll pull out a few surprises. So yeah, I feel Wirestone has a right to complain, as do all of us, but realistically this is all just awesome that they are even together. I really never thought it would happen again, and I feel lucky to witness The Beach Boys back in action in 2012!

Heh. I think it's been clear that economic concerns have been a prime motivating factor of this from the start. But having those concerns buttressed by artistic integrity would be nice.

Over on the Hoffman board, they say that the band has rehearsed some 50 songs. That is somewhat promising news, actually. I would love to see 30-plus song setlists.

We should keep in mind the record label may have a say. If they sign a nostalgic act today they could expect certain conditions. As in KISS (full make up and Simmons sticking his tongue out on the cover), Neil Diamond (Smooze) AC/DC (Hard Rock). To name a few.

With this in mind, Capitol requesting a beach/ summer reference on a Beach Boys album isn't too far out there.

Where the heck are they getting those tips? ???

I'm sort of with Wirestone. Only there is no way Im going to see them in concert, as they are not coming this way so Im not too concerned with that. I am just hoping the album is a solid, good one. More "LOS' than SIP+Brian Wilson. But, yeah. I'm a bit pessimistic.

Does Mike still do a 15 minute monologue about people in VW buses before "Good Vibrations," and will he do it on the reunion tour? 

Oh, god. Really?

This is slightly disturbing - Wirestone normally talks sense, so I can only assume he's been hanging out with Cohen for too long in recent weeks.

Car songs. - well, yeah, it's what they're known for in the mind of Joe Q. Public.

Surfin' songs. - as above, in spades.

Surfboards in promo pics. - no brainer. Not saying I agree, but... no brainer.

"Beaches in Mind." - we know the title. We know Al whistles on it. We know it's "a very cheerful song". Yup, more than ample grounds to dismiss it out of hand.

Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK. - like you say, mini-set. Hell. they only played one song at the Grammys: this is going to be a complete fiasco !

"Kokomo." - yup, can't see the point of doing their biggest selling 45 and the one song most folk born post-60s associate with them. What are these guys thinking of ?

That hideous single cover. - personal opinion.

Wal-Mart. - when Brian put out TLOS with Best Buy only bonus tracks, I don't recall the wrath of God being called down upon his head.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single. - again, we have a title and composers: that's all, you don't know what it sounds like. Just suppose... just suppose it's actually a nice, wistful, retro ballad that isn't too shabby with vocals a la "DFTS" ? Try hearing the thing first.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances. - two, if you count the Dodger Stadium thing. Three songs.

Utterly disengaged Brian. - sometimes. Sometimes not. That's Brian. He's a trip.  ;D

Just like AGD ... trying to ruin my freakout by talking rationally.

Have you no shame, sir?

None.  ;D

I don't expect a Sunflower but if it's better than the post L.A. albums I'll be cool with it. I think being together again is the point of the this whole thing. Closure perhaps. I do think the shows will have effort put into them. It won't be 1971 but as long as it isn't 1991 I'm again happy. The last time I saw Mike and Bruce they did the surf songs with some real grit to them. As long as they perform the oldies with respect it won't bother me. Yes I would like a heavy dose of the Pet Sounds through Holland stuff, but as I am seeing them in a theatre I think they may just do a decent number of them. I understand the concerns, but I find more and more that people I meet know about Pet Sounds and Smile as much as they do the oldies.  Based around what I saw Mike and Bruce do in 2007 with an orchestra, based on Brian's shows, based on the longer sets, I sincerely think they know that people want more than what once was accepted. I know at very least that seeing them all there together will mean something to me.

I'm tempted to be as disparaging about this post as Wirestone was about people's genuine concerns about Foskett in the live mixes. But no, I'll rise above it ;)

He's a naughty cheeky, contrary little Wirestone, but we love 'im.

Pretty big difference between Walmart and Best Buy in my experience.

Wirestone, I hunk your original post nailed what a lot of us are thinking but not vocalising so throroughly. What others are saying is also true. Yes, the reunion's set to be a bad taste fest but we'll forgive the facts just to see these guys back on stage doing what they've always done.

Not sure, really that BW has ever had the confidence to get on stage and Play songs written from the heart with the BBs when it's the earlier stuff that's gone down best with audiences. Surf n cars sold by the shedload, but there's little on Pet Sounds that the kids can dance to.

If this band has really rehearsed 50 songs (probably not less that 2.5 hours of potential performance) then 2.4 hours of that is probably hits.

Which to my twisted mind is probably why they're not coming to the UK - they'd have to rehearse all over again for a set that would include SoS, SU, probably MAD and other stuff a mass US crowd wouldn't likely know. Without the deeper material, the UK audiences wouldn't be happy (tho' aye Jon, we'd scream the house down for Barbara Ann).

There are moments when I'm at an utter loss of words regarding the negativity concerning the reunion on this board... people, they haven't even played a single reunion gig yet, and no one has heard the new LP (basically we know sh*t about the new LP, right?). So... what's the deal?


As for Wirestone's initial counts of indictment:

Dude.. it's the Beach Boys.  ??? You can't seriously expect the Beach Boys in the year of their reunion to play the entire Holland live and abandon the material that made them what they are, the material that is the reason for the high demand for the Beach Boys (still in 2012) in the first place. I don't get it.

What else is new? Again, it's the Beach Boys. And so far I've found nothing distasteful about the recent promotional images - on the contrary.

I would hope that a rock&roll band called the Beach Boys has beaches in mind.

Mini-sets have only a limited opportunity of time frame and song choices to sway the audience. You play the hits. And I mean the hits hits. Not WIBN. Safest thing to do. Who can blame them? (Well, we can, obviously.)

Did you expect them to not play one of their biggest commercial hits?

That's a question of taste. I dig it.

Don't get that one. I live in Germany, we had Wal-Mart for a couple of years, then they vanished. I hear sad stuff about the working conditions there, but I don't get how Wal-Mart is a bad omen for the Beach Boys reunion.

So what? Let's postpone judgement on that until we have heard the actual song.

Underwhelming? I found those performances pretty solid. Poorly mixed? No. The TV mix for the Grammy performance was sh*t, I'll give you that, but the actual mix in the hall ROCKED. As for the Baseball stadium mix.. dude, it's as Baseball stadium... plus, I couldn't find anything real bad there, either.
Or is this about Foskett again?

I don't see that. Brian's just being Brian. He's as much sitting around, making tired faces, or acting slightly disconnected as he is on his solo projects. That's just Brian at this age. But what I also see is a happy Brian, genuinely SMiLiNG, hanging around with the Boys. And from everything we hear from in-camp, he's enjoying himself. And that kind of was the crux of the reunion all along, wasn't it? Thus, from where I'm sitting, everything seems to be going peachy.


(Sorry, just had to get that off my chest...)

Hmmmmm, strange post by Wirestone who is usually one of the better posters on this board but have noticed a few of his posts recently that seem a bit weird, I think a group hug is required.

 :grouphug

Correct in every detail, oh yes indeed. Heard nothing, seen nothing, know nothing. How true is this statement. Oh yes.

Thanks!  :)

Whatever, man. It's Brian and Mike and Al singing together. I would love them to play songs other than "Shut Down" (which I'm pretty sure is only known by hardcore Beach Boys fans, anyway) but every time I saw any of these guys' bands I always thought, "This is cool, but it would be so much better if the others were here." And that's what we're getting. All their setlists have sucked for the past 25 years. whatever.

Totally agreed there...

i don't understand the dislike for the surfboards in the background of their photos either.  Stuff like that have come around full circle, and it looks quite cool.  Plus them in such a nice room, with a big white grand piano, i dunno.  It's a cool juxtaposition of the quality/sophistication of their music, and the surf music they started from. 

I think i get where Wirestone is coming from, although he didn't argue his point very well. Now i adore - absolutely f**king ADORE - the Beach Boys more commercial and early material and i've no problem with them playing a big old chunk of that on their reunion tour. It goes without saying, they couldn't not! What i do have a problem with however is the fact that - from what's been said so far - there's little acknowledgement of their more artistic side at all - and to me this is disappointing, especially in light of the recent success of Smile, Brian's latest works, and Al's continuous praising of their more experimental work in recent years. Yes, i know we can't expect them to do a set entirely of obscure album tracks, that's blatantly not what i'm saying, however there'd be no harm in a hardcore fan-pleasing 20-30% chunk of artistic material being thrown into the mix. 

I think it's a fallacy to imply the audience would be running to the exits if the band were to play All This Is That, Time To Get Alone or Til I Die inbetween the hits. The group were artistically progressive for a comfortable 14-15 year run - some more acknowledgement of that wouldn't hurt.   

Agreed. Hopefully they are aware of this. For The Beatles to do a reunion tour (or even for McCartney's solo tours) to only feature pre-Rubber Soul material would be ignoring the most musically interesting parts of their career. Hopefully the Beach Boys will play tunes from the 70's. It may come down to the markets they are playing in - in smaller theatres, they may be more apt to play more obscure tunes.

This thread is almost as ridiculous as the one that complained that The Smile Sessions in mono is a disaster for the Beach Boys legacy.

Big massive  ::)

Is MAD referring to midnights another day?

No. Nothing even approaches that ridiculous.

No, Mothers Against Drunkdriving.

Yeah, BIG difference. Walmart is making money hand over fist and building more stores and Breast Buy's CEO just resigned, they're closing stores left and right and it's going down the tubes!

Uh huh.

*because it wasn't in stereo*

This thread is raising legitimate concerns about the reunion. I don't think it quite reaches the level of the aforementioned thread. If it is too whiney for you in the midst of all the reunion positivity, don't look at it. Personally, I am excited for the reunion and I am also interested in reading about Wirestone's reservations... about the reunion, dinner reservations, whatever...

Sorry just seems absurd to complain that the Beach Boys are playing their hits. Especially based on one show.

It's not remotely absurd for fans to be disappointed that the group are reverting to their 'hits-only' 80's setlists, instead of trying to be a little more adventerous and acknowledging every stage of their career. This is the first full band reunion of remaining members in a long, long time - it should be a big, career-spanning trawl through their catalogue. To say 'Oh well they have to play hits-only shows' is self-defeating nonsense. 

And the last.


Sez who ? Sez us here, the uberfans, the serious BB geeks. Who will the band be playing to for these 60 dates ? Joe Q. Public, his wife and kids, who know the band from maybe 15-20 songs, one of which is "Kokomo": there's going to be enough surprises for them in a 40-song setlist. I can see the boardroom meeting now:

BB rep: OK, the band are going to play a setlist covering their entire career, here (passes sheet of paper to Cap exec)

Exec: (brow steadily furrows as he reads down the setlist and realises he knows maybe 10 songs on it) On behalf of the company... how can I put this...you're out of your fucking minds.

Would they really be accused of being 'out of their f**king minds' if, every so often during the setlist, they threw in the occasional 'Wonderful' or 'Long Promised Road' in-between the smash hits? (Or is it being assumed that i'm implying they should devote half the setlist to obscure album tracks from commercially unsuccessful albums, even though i quite clearly stated that that blatantly isn't what i'm saying several posts ago?)

Your actual words at  8.10.51am today:

"...it should be a big, career-spanning trawl through their catalogue."

Ergo, they would "devote half the setlist to obscure album tracks from commercially unsuccessful albums", according to you. Otherwise it would just be a GH set, and we wouldn't want that, would we ?

Yeh man, the big hits made them money but they only account for 3-5 years of their career, I want them to visit all worthy areas of their music, I hope the reunion covers much of their history, hit or no hit. Most of their music has artistic value (the 80's excepted). Not wanting the surf songs revisiited at the expense of everything else seems entirely reasonable to me.

The surf/car years may have accounted for a small portion of their career but there's no way getting around that this early work is what secured their fame...not neccessarily "Sail on Sailor" or "All This is That." 

They have enough catalogue to play severa shows without repeating anything.

But for me the money is on performance. I don't care about setlist. Really.

Ya Think?

They have a PBS special coming up.  I don't think that would have happened except for the type of audience that loves to watch Peter Noone and John Sebastian oldies shows on pledge nights.  The oldies audience is the bulk of the Beach Boys' audience.  Even Brian has built tours around surf and car songs being in the set.

I've seen Brian's solo tour four times now. I've seen him do all of Pet Sounds, Smile, heard things like Drive-In, And Your Dreams Come True, Add Some Music, etc.

While I would like to see The Beach Boys throw in some cool album cuts this tour, I also want to see a Beach Boys concert complete with Be True To Your School and maybe even Little Old Lady From Pasadena. That's right - I evoked the old lady.

You of all people to evoke the old lady. :lol

Not exactly true.

 :lol

Sometimes the old lady just has to be evoked.

I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore.

That you would bring up a song that Mike Love loves to cheese up in concert. :lol

Thanks for reminding me!

I would to state that The Little Old Lady From Pasadena is the worst song of all time. Discuss.

Songs about Old Ladies in Muscle cars with road rage are amazing! ;D

Oh, come on.

That's all I got.

A fair argument. But in my present condition, I cannot think of a song which is worse.

Mike Love solo songs or the whole SIP album.

Any of the songs from the current top 40s of the UK and USA.

I agree with this, but if Joe only knows 15 songs, why can't the other 25 be Smile stuff, 70s stuff, et cetera?

and personally I would never shell out hundreds of dollars to see a band that I was only a casual fan of. what a terrible waste of money.

Rock n roll music

You know what? I don't care. I will calm down when I want to, so far it's fun and I don't mind those guys cashing in. If you don't like it, listen to some music that you do like instead and don't try to spoil it for us. Yes, you do have the right to state your opinion, but don't expect me to think you might be right.

Please pay attention to the rest of the thread. My reasoning is more fully explained there. This board is for discussion, not to make you feel better.

Wirestone! Your never this pessimistic! We need to find a way to cheer you up, because I LOVE the way this is going so far and I think you will too, soon, I hope.

I was reminded of Ron's words when I ran across this.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extremely-disappointing-facts-about-popular-mus

It's little sister and cousin of I Get Around - THE ANAHEIM, AZUSA, AND CUCAMONGA SEWING CIRCLE, BOOK REVIEW, AND TIMING ASSOCIATION - is worse by far

I like looking through this and realizing I dislike 90% of people named, new and old. The article reeks of your typical "rawk-type stuff 4ever" guy.

Yeah, but then you can play it right after Elvis' "Fort Lauderdale Chamber Of Commerce" and really cause some kind of inane pop-based nervous breakdown.

Well, it's been an exhausting couple of days. I've been down, I've been up, I've been down, and now I'm not sure where I am.

So to recap: Earlier this week I was crabby. I didn't like the partial setlist played for Sirius XM, and some of the song titles coming out sounded terrible.

Then we had the teaser trailer of TWGMTR leak. I was up! Sounded catchy!

Then the concert happened last night. The setlist looked terrific, and reports were positive. Yay! Super happy!

Today, we got the full single. It was pretty good, but hmm ... that rawkin' bridge? Hmmm. Moving down.

And then the audio surfaced. Live autotune for Brian?

Then some of the "Brian doesn't want to tour" press coverage surfaced.

And now I don't know where I am. I'm profoundly tired of all of this. Perhaps this is the fate of big fans -- to be eternally disappointed by the creative decisions of those they follow -- but I don't like it.

I want to like this. I want to feel like Brian and the band are making the right decisions. I want to be able to enjoy them, and enjoy their decisions. I wish it wasn't so difficult sometimes.

Anyway. Let's talk about Melinda's dogs or something.

It just wouldn't be the Beach Boys without some crushing disappointment.

There's no live autotune, and if there is, it's used so subtly that I can't even tell! it's probably due to that dark three month period in my life I ironically listened to the pop station. I'm probably so used to autotune that it sounds natural.

but you know what, this is a good place to be!

I can't put it any better (or clearer) than i did previously, so i'll just repeat what i wrote before:

I think i get where Wirestone is coming from, although he didn't argue his point very well. Now i adore - absolutely f**king ADORE - the Beach Boys more commercial and early material and i've no problem with them playing a big old chunk of that on their reunion tour. It goes without saying, they couldn't not! What i do have a problem with however is the fact that - from what's been said so far - there's little acknowledgement of their more artistic side at all - and to me this is disappointing, especially in light of the recent success of Smile, Brian's latest works, and Al's continuous praising of their more experimental work in recent years. Yes, i know we can't expect them to do a set entirely of obscure album tracks, that's blatantly not what i'm saying, however there'd be no harm in a hardcore fan-pleasing 20-30% chunk of artistic material being thrown into the mix. 
I think it's a fallacy to imply the audience would be running to the exits if the band were to play All This Is That, Time To Get Alone or Til I Die inbetween the hits. The group were artistically progressive for a comfortable 14-15 year run - some more acknowledgement of that wouldn't hurt.   

Well... they DID play All This is That.

And that is undoubtably a very GOOD THING! What other non-hits did they play?

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-beach-boys/2012/anselmo-valencia-amphitheater-tucson-az-63de5a8b.html

Doesn't surprise me, but where is this covered?

When I looked at the setlist and the tour schedule, with new dates coming out every few days, and think of Brian doing all that travelling and work. If Ms. Mel gets tired of it too. I just worry about the long haul and if Brian can make it through. That's the brief thought I had anyway. Not predicting anything.

Man, I just spent one and a half hours reading stuff and I have hardly read a quarter of those threads that I thought might be interesting. I can't read everything.


True, but I just don't like being told what to think. "All of you hepping yourselves up over this should calm down." Why should I, when it's fun? Is that for you to decide? Is that what you call "discussion"? Maybe I do focus too much on that line of yours, but that attitude doesn't make me want to discuss. The song is pleasant to me, no matter who wrote or produced it. Yes, TLOS was better. I agree (no irony). So?

That's more like discussing. I can follow you there, Wirestone.

Here's some Lil' Wayne, showing his "quality":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smb8tMeRTQQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4CoXRPK4TM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Just for the record, the difference between this and Pet Sounds is totally subjective.

:thud

I think there were people in those videos actually cheering his performance. Humanity is really taking a nosedive.

I want to listen to til I die after watching this.

I would like to resurrect this thread to note that I was utterly and completely wrong in my initial post. Well, maybe not utterly, but my fears have been allayed, and the live tunage has been turned off. The setlists are great and the album is excellent.

Again, I was wrong. Apologies. Thank you.

The Beach Boys are, fortunately, the most badly marketed band to have ever existed.

Sometimes it's just plain wonderful to be wrong.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I'm going to enter this fray and try not to take any response personally, even though my skin is probably too thin for my own good, so please be kind. I'm trying to give a constructive opinion and have no interest in conflict or nastiness. This is a topic that is ripe for in-depth exploration at this particular historical juncture because the band is engaged in what is certainly one of its final phases of permanent self-definition. The rubber is hitting the road and the BBs legacy and identity is in the process of being permanently cemented during this tour, and a lot is at stake.

Wirestone is saying a lot of things that I was thinking of saying, and heartily agree with. I don't remember his exact words in his original post, but if he disparaged the band's early car or surf songs more than he intended to (or if his comments were just misconstrued) he later retracted that, and I certainly embrace that early work whole-heartedly, with no ambiguity whatsoever. Some have said here that they are equally happy to hear anything the band chooses to play, even going so far as to call the more ambitious, artistic tracks "yawners" or some such. Of course opinions and tastes are subjective, but I know that last night at the show, there was a magic, reflective mood and zen-like, dreamy  momentum and atmosphere for the relatively few "art" songs in the set (particularly All This is That, California Saga, Add Some Music, Disney Girls & Sail On Sailor)  reminiscent of what the legendary early '70s concerts (which I unfortunately didn't attend) must have been like, that was repeatedly truncated by a return to the more conventional fare before it had a chance to take flight and build up a continuity that would be truly marvelous.

There are too many points that have been made in this thread to fully address. I'll try to remember as many as I can. The comparison between self-indulgent artists playing mediocre, non-commercial material at concerts is spurious. The quality of the best of the more non-commercial BB tunes is widely acknowledged, I venture to say, so that's not really an apt comparison. I don't believe that Brian, in the main, writes music principally for profit-making motives, even when their careers took off and he felt pressure to be a breadwinner. Later (PS and after) came a time when his experimental, artistic growth no longer fostered a natural convergence between his innovative, but up until that time relatively conventional compositional style (enhanced by his competitive urge to write the greatest stuff that anyone could) and his desire to create financially remunerative hit records to support his brothers and family. I believe that he,at least in the first part of the band's career, wrote music mainly to express himself creatively, and that creativity was incidentally commercially appealing. When the music he wrote met with relative indifference (such as H&V not performing up to his expectations) he was hurt and began to withdraw from the expectation that his output would be universally acclaimed.

Ron is correct that there is an idealism present in Wirestone's yearnings for the band to be at least equally identified with its more substantive material as with its less ambitious work. What we want the band to be is now obviously unlikely to happen, and we love what we have, but while simultaneously making peace with it, those of us who hope for more can keep that dream alive and hope to influence this tour and whatever is left of the band's future by standing up for what we believe in, which is nothing less that the full creative potential of the Beach Boys being respected equally with the other parts of its identity.

I don't put the early surf & car songs in the category of "less ambitious" (more so the songs, culminating in "Kokomo" which recycled the familiar, archetypal memes and tropes in IMO sub-standard, recycled fashion later in the group's career, such as "Getcha Back" etc), even though they define the aesthetic that informed ML's vision (I don't want to polarize board members into pro-Mike and anti-Mike factions, a trap that is easily fallen into by many, myself included) or descend into character assassination or the like, just trying to identify, basically correctly I think, the fact that his vision of what the band should be is more mainstream overall than what Carl & Dennis were pushing for in the late '70s when push really came to shove over the group's image and identity. His vision won the day, and the group became more and more an oldies act (despite the undeniably high quality of these particular oldies) rather than attempting to strike a balance between the two facets of the group's nature. This tour is a really significant opportunity to regain a relative balance between those aspects of its character, and the opportunity is being missed, not completely, but to a considerable degree.

Someone predicted here that Wirestone would be ecstatic, and cheering wildly, no matter what the setlist is, when he attends  his local tour stop. I imagine he will do a lot of cheering, as I did, but also feel a great amount of frustration and disappointment, as I did (don't mean to put words in your mouth, Wirestone, no offense intended). One reason that the audience expects a more mainstream selection (and didn't seem to respond very well to the rarities) was because they have been conditioned to expect conformity from the band. It didn't have to be that way, but it is, and I understand that that is the reality of the situation, and am very thankful to have that reality. But I am an idealist too, and the power of some of the more obscure material is so potent that I was keenly aware last night of a very real, palpable missed opportunity. The most exalted musical ambitions of the group, in large part, are being done a disservice to. This band and its music are very important to us, and at this moment of penultimate self-definition, the opportunity for closure and a return to the more exalted artistic ideals that fueled some of its most amazing, existential, introspective work is sad to see pass by. One problem, of course, is that much of that material was sung by Dennis or Carl, and even some precious early songs like "Keep An Eye On Summer", "We'll Run Away" or "She Knows Me Too Well" would be difficult for Brian to pull off and would have to be performed by Foskett or others.

I felt it last night, a tantalizing sense of lost promise, and am unwilling to just keep quiet, toe the line and shuffle off into the night. During the poignant memorials to Carl and Dennis, their spirits seemed to be both celebrating the 50 years of mostly wonderful entertainment, while crying out for more of the 3 brothers' creative stamp to still be present in the content of the evening's festivities. Al, to his great credit, apparently regrets siding with the more conventional direction at that critical juncture in the late '70s. His stand-up advocacy for Surf's Up and Dennis' comments about SMiLE were a breath of fresh air during the recent Charlie Rose interview, and his attempts to convince ML to open the 2nd set with "Our Prayer" were laudable. I understand that the Beach Boys identity will forever be founded mainly on the themes of their origins, which are quite profound but the overreliance on and pervasiveness of that particular aspect cheapens those elemental, formative Southern California themes. I understand that it's a blessing and a miracle that they overcame their various differences and are touring at all, and performing so well, but they are far more multifaceted than that, and their legacy deserves better.  :'(

Wanted to add that I understand that they are performing many songs and it would be very difficult to decide which few to jettison in favor of deeper cuts, and they can't be expected to do more songs, which does present a dilemma.

It might help you feel better if you keep the setlist in perspective...  The other night at the Greek, they played 45 songs, and nearly half of them -- 21 of the 45 -- weren't hits.  They were B-sides and album tracks, from "Please Let Me Wonder" to "Forever", "Isn't It Time" to "409", "Kiss Me Baby" to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", or singles which never touched the Top 40 like "Marcella" and "Sail On Sailor".

There's a lot of songs there which, by most peoples' definition, are deep cuts, and artistically ambitious.  We've been a bit spoiled in recent years, thanks to Brian's band and selected shows from Mike which have delved about this deep before -- to the point where we can take hearing "Disney Girls" and four songs from "Pet Sounds" for granted.  But for a band which could do a 34-song set just of their Top 40 hits... this is an extensive trawl through their catalog.

Basically, the glass is pretty much exactly half full...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Not quite exactly, IMO Jon. They could drop It's O.K.. R&R Music, The Time Has Come (or whatever it's called) and Barbara Ann in favor of 4 more transcendental nuggets. Then I'd be satisfied.

I'm gonna be honest. I'm a huge fan, major deep cut guy. Sure, I wish they would do "Aren't You Glad", "I Went to Sleep",  "Surf's Up", "You Need A Mess of Help...", and "Good Timin'", but I also know that, compared to their contemporaries, like Paul McCartney or Bob Dylan, they give us more deep cuts than nearly any of them.

Seriously...this tour they've played "This Whole World", "Please Let Me Wonder", "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times", "Marcella" and "All This is That", amongst others. That is pretty freakin' nuts!

Compare this to Bob Dylan, who, while he has tour relentlessly for the past 20ish years, pretty much sticks to his '60s classics, maybe something from Blood on the Tracks and a few things from his latest albums. Fans hoping to hear something from New Morning or Desire or Street Legal are probably gonna be disappointed.

Or even Sir Paul. Chances are, if you go see him, you're gonna get mostly Beatles songs. If you are hoping for solo or Wings stuff, you won't get much. Usually probably only "Maybe I'm Amazed" from McCartney, "Live and Let Die, maybe "My Love" from Red Rose Speedway and a few cuts from Band on the Run. Luckily, over the past few years, he's snuck in stuff from Ram like "Too Many People" and "Ram On" and some Wings stuff, but that's about it. If somebody who was a huge fan of relatively big albums like McCartney, Red Rose Speedway or Tug of War went to a McCartney concert hoping to hear some of their favorite songs from those albums, chances are they would be out of luck.

However, I gotta say The Beach Boys have really come up with the goods on this tour, and they are doing multiple songs from albums like Sunflower, Carl and the Passions, and Holland, which weren't as big as McCartney's '70s albums. So if anything, I think they have major guts going out there and playing a lot of their more artistic material, and I myself am very happy with their work on this tour.

"The Time Has Come"? wat?

Also, come on. You can't tell me the setlists for this tour aren't about a billion times better than most of us hoped for. It appeals to basically any type of fan out there in a significant way, and if you're every kind of fan, well then God damn. You can't please everyone with a setlist, so saying "They should drop this and this and this to make me happy" is kinda goofy.

Preach it, runners!

At the Hollywood Bowl last night, I sat in front of 4 guys in Tommy Bahama shirts, who angrily talked over any song that wasn't a hit, and talked over the verses of the hits (singing off key with the Choruses, of course). They loudly pronounced that "Kiss Me Baby" must be a new song during its performance. In order for the tour to be a commercial success, they need to appeal to people like that, unfortunately.

That said, it would have been nice if they threw out Rock N Roll music, which no one in that audience wanted, and gave us another track from Smile.

Ah, my favorite kind of concert-goers. Gotta ruin the show for everyone else around to you have a good time. Arrogant jackoffs with too much money and nothing to do with it who should be kicked out of these shows but never will be. :(

Sounds like the same guys who bring Filet Mignon and wine to the parking lot tailgating festivities at football games.

Either that, or they were radio station weasels who got free tickets.

Yeah, the Bowl is more like a movie theater acoustically, so they were drowning out the music. I politely asked them to keep it down, and they said "hey buddy, we're trying to enjoy this show, just like you". I missed out on so many great moments. Why on earth would anyone blow 200-300 bucks to talk through a concert? Next time I'll spring for the VIP seats!

Always the same sh*t. "I'm just trying to have a good time like you." If your good time f*cks with my good time and you're unwilling to stop, you're a complete dick and you shouldn't be here, end of story. Believe it or not, it is possible to have a good time without spilling your beer all over my girlfriend, shouting "FUCK YOU DON'T PLAY ANY NEW SONGS" throughout the show, screaming every five seconds or talking loudly over every song, violently pushing your way to the front during "your song" when I was the one who got here early to make sure I got up front and then grinding your ass against me because you "just gotta dance" (and you've been drinking a lot), etc. etc. etc. etc.