Why a reunion won't happen.....

[b00ts]

Without Dennis, Mike, Al or Carl the Beach Boys may have existed.
Without Brian, the Beach Boys would not exist.

It is, however, objectively incorrect to say Brian was the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys were a group. Brian dominated for a long time, and was chiefly responsible for their sound. Beyond his songwriting, the fact that Brian acted as producer means that, whatever input everybody else had, he had veto power.

It is also objectively incorrect to say that Mike Love is the smallest or most unnecessary part of The Beach Boys. In spite of what many view as his artistic shortcomings, he has proven himself able to deliver a consistent live show in a way that very few performers of his vintage have, year after year, since the group's heyday. That is no small feat.

Just because Brian was the backbone of the Beach Boys doesn't render moot the considerable contributions of the other members. Brian is a musical legend, and I love his music, but why do we need to hero-worship? He is a human just like Mike Love, and he has his idiosyncrasies just like Mike Love does.

Brian also benefits from a PR machine behind him that focuses incessantly on his mental illness and the hardships he has endured, painting him as a continual victim. And while I love Brian's solo career - I even listen to Gettin in Over my Head once in a while - it does get a bit tiring.

Mike can certainly be a huge jerk, and he has made some big mistakes along the way, but with his influence kept in check by the other Beach Boys, and even sometimes on his own, he has been capable of making some beautiful music.

If there is a reunion, and it is for the money, and the original Beach Boys perform together, I will enjoy it. If it is a live concert, I will be disappointed if they don't do some deep cuts. What intrigues me further is the prospect of new recorded material that is actually decent.  don't think they should get an outside producer - just let Brian and his band join up with Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. Get that Beach Boys vocal blend going and make some great new tunes.

There is a good chance that the reconstituted Beach Boys could commit another atrocity like "Summer In Paradise," but there's always the possibility that they would be cognizant of the fact that this is the last hurrah, and perhaps make something genuinely affecting. Wouldn't it be nice?

[Surfer Joe]

I'll throw in a quote for you:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers."

-Dennis Wilson-

 

Went back and found full quotation:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers. He's everything, we're nothing."

-Dennis Wilson-

Beyond Brian, I think the biggest contributions in the band's golden age were from Mike, with his excellent lyrics, and he had the only voice in the mix that Brian couldn't really replicate. Hal Blaine made huge contributions, Carl did some great lead vocals; there were many, many supporting roles to whom credit is due.  They all did great work, especially under Brian's tight direction during his dynamic years, and over time, Dennis emerged as a major creative force and is really just getting his due now. They all stepped up to varying degrees later to give us brilliant tracks like "All This Is That" and "Feel Flows". But was any one of them irreplaceable? The only one I can say for certain was- Brian Wilson.

For my dough- just opinion, again, I don't claim the unassailable fortress of objective fact for it- Brian's brain was the show, and I think of how easily Pet Sounds, for example, could have been a solo record.  You could probably cobble quite a bit of it together that way.

[b00ts]

I'll throw in a quote for you:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers."

-Dennis Wilson-

 

Went back and found full quotation:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers. He's everything, we're nothing."

-Dennis Wilson-

Beyond Brian, I think the biggest contributions in the band's golden age were from Mike, with his excellent lyrics, and he had the only voice in the mix that Brian couldn't really replicate. Hal Blaine made huge contributions, Carl did some great lead vocals; there were many, many supporting roles to whom credit is due.  They all did great work, especially under Brian's tight direction during his dynamic years, and over time, Dennis emerged as a major creative force and is really just getting his due now. They all stepped up to varying degrees later to give us brilliant tracks like "All This Is That" and "Feel Flows". But was any one of them irreplaceable? The only one I can say for certain was- Brian Wilson.

For my dough- just opinion, again, I don't claim the unassailable fortress of objective fact for it- Brian's brain was the show, and I think of how easily Pet Sounds, for example, could have been a solo record.  You could probably cobble quite a bit of it together that way.

I just quoted you quoting yourself quoting someone else. Just wanted to point that out!

[Surfer Joe]

A damn fine achievement, sir, and you may quote me!

 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Might I again point out that no one is arguing against Brian as being the most important Beach Boy! I agree that it would be silly to do so.

ALL I'm saying is that the initial ingrediants which made up the original Beach Boys template, was not Brian's doing all on his own. And it's a template that was never really deviated upon. You always had either a Mike lead with the sweet Beach Boy harmonies, or you had a Brian lead with a Mike bass vocal or you had them switching off. And then you either had a sweet Carl, Al, or Brian lead with Mike bass vocals, or they swtiched off. You always had Mike to counterpoint the sweet Brianesque (if not actually Brian) voice. That is the Beach Boys sound. (though I guess Dennis did deviate things a bit, and all for the better)..... So, for my money, Mike is just as important in the genesis of the Beach Boys sound as Brian, simply by virtue of his voice and sensebility..... And then you had the lyrics/subject matter and so on.... It was a small goup of guys who came up with the sound and created this template....

But who was most important in the group's evolution and output? Brian of course!!!!! 

[Dancing Bear]

I'll throw in a quote for you:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers."

-Dennis Wilson-

 

I kind of hated that quote, til l read the whole interview / article. Then it made sense. 

[the captain]

A damn fine achievement, sir, and you may quote me!

 

Success!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

"Luther, my son.....

was it you earlier calling upon me to finally weigh in here?"

 - Jesus Christ

[Awesoman]

I really agree with you when you say that Brian Wilson alone is not the Beach Boys.  The only thing I would point out is that if you look at each member's significance in the formation and growth of the group, BW has the biggest slice by far.

[/color]


I think it's also hurt the Beach Boys perception in the history book for all time to come. And it's the same reason why the Beach Boys aren't universally held in the same regard as The Beatles.

[/quote]

Well, the Beatles had three monster song-writers; the Beach Boys had one.  That makes a big difference right there.  Yes, Dennis was potentially a good songwriter but most of his music is largely unfocused.  Anyone that takes a listen to the Bambu stuff off of the Pacific Ocean Blue album will find that, while interesting, it's largely incohesive.  Even his best song, "Forever", didn't really know how to end itself.  Carl Wilson wasn't a slouch either, but other than "Feel Flows", "Long Promised Road" and "Heaven", I can't think of anything else he wrote that really stood out...

[the captain]

Luther, my son.....

was it you earlier calling upon me to finally weigh in here?

Wait, I'm your son? My mom's husband really has a lot of explaining to do...

And no, I don't think so. But you never know. I say a lot of things and barely pay attention to them. Still, I have a brother with your first name and last name-first initial, so I will go along with you on this despite not knowing quite what you may have said in said weigh-in.

[Alex]

Oh, THAT's Mr. David Leaf, the mastermind of all Brianistas? Godamn, it figures... 

I thought Danny Hutton, David Anderle, Mike Vosse, Paul Williams, Jules Seigel, Loren Schwartz, etc. were the original Brianistas!!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Padon my bad joke, Luther....

It wouldn't let me include a photo, so I've since modified my post.... 

[the captain]

You, sir, are a great man. Alas, I was just whining about people's mind-numbing inability to master the quote feature of the board.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, the Beatles had three monster song-writers; the Beach Boys had one.  That makes a big difference right there.  Yes, Dennis was potentially a good songwriter but most of his music is largely unfocused.  Anyone that takes a listen to the Bambu stuff off of the Pacific Ocean Blue album will find that, while interesting, it's largely incohesive.  Even his best song, "Forever", didn't really know how to end itself.  Carl Wilson wasn't a slouch either, but other than "Feel Flows", "Long Promised Road" and "Heaven", I can't think of anything else he wrote that really stood out...


[/quote]


Agreed!

It didn't help that the Beach Boys camp was just an all over the place mess credits-wise. You had Mike (and Brian) writing great lyrics, but also Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Tony Asher, ect, various session musicians (who WERE the core band often, istead of just argumenting things) ... The Beatles presented a much more unified front! Though too many people still regard George as a bastard stepchild writing-wise...... which sucks.

That said, I think Dennis stacks up to Brian anyday as a writer/artist. But this is just my opinion.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

You, sir, are a great man. Alas, I was just whining about people's mind-numbing inability to master the quote feature of the board.

Yeah, I know..... Someday I'll get the quote thing right.

In the meantime though, I'm liking this "fun with colors" thing! 

[Dancing Bear]

Oh, THAT's Mr. David Leaf, the mastermind of all Brianistas? Godamn, it figures... 

I thought Danny Hutton, David Anderle, Mike Vosse, Paul Williams, Jules Seigel, Loren Schwartz, etc. were the original Brianistas!!

Those bozos were just paving the way for Mr. Leaf.  

[Sheriff John Stone]

Dennis was potentially a good songwriter but most of his music is largely unfocused.....Even his best song, "Forever", didn't really know how to end itself.

I find the end of "Forever" quite touching.

"So I'm goin' away, but not forever. I gotta love you anyway....forever...."

Sung in Dennis' melancholy voice, with Brian's (or Carl's on Spring) na na na's and that fade; it's vintage Dennis Wilson songwriting. Doesn't get much better than that.

[Wilsonista]

Oh, THAT's Mr. David Leaf, the mastermind of all Brianistas? Godamn, it figures... 

I thought Danny Hutton, David Anderle, Mike Vosse, Paul Williams, Jules Seigel, Loren Schwartz, etc. were the original Brianistas!!

Those bozos were just paving the way for Mr. Leaf.  

I'll grant you Loren, maybe Siegel. But WIlliams (acomplished writer who was Phillip Dick's literary conservator), Danny Hutton (successful pop star) and David Anderle (successful producer/record company executive) were not bozos.

[Aegir]

My favorite Beach Boys albums -- Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland and In Concert -- are NOTHING without Dennis, Mike, Al, Carl, Bruce, Ricky and Blondie. Brian was not the Beach Boys during their coolest period. If you get rid of all the other group members' contributions, there's not much left.

[Wilsonista]

Only one of those albums are in my top BB albums. Most of the rest predate 1967. I always felt the early 70's BB tried too hard to be something they weren't.

[Surfer Joe]

Wait, I'm your son? My mom's husband really has a lot of explaining to do...

Actually, Luther, I think that scenario would put your mom on the hot seat.  No disrespect to her, give her my best!

So in the analogy above, Brian= John, Paul George, and George Martin; everybody else =Ringo?  That's cool, you won't find a bigger Ringo fan than me.

The anti-Brianistas scenario- call 'em the Brian-Contras- make a little more sense to me in Aegir's scenario, if you really prefer the stuff that came after he mostly flamed out.  I totally, absolutely cannot relate to not having Pet Sounds (or the SMiLE sessions, or Today! or Summer Days) in your top five Beach Boys albums, cannot grasp that listening experience, that way of life, that state of being at all, any more than I can grasp not loving "Let Him Run Wild" or "Salt Lake City", but I can respect it and acknowledge it. 

Even so, Friends, to me, is still Brian's album.  Most of the high-spots after he flamed out, for me, are still his- "Darlin'", "I Went To Sleep", "Time To Get Alone", "Sail On Sailor", "This Whole World", "Till I Die", "Busy Doin' Nothin", "Marcella", "Can't Wait Too Long", "Wild Honey", the Spring album, Love You...unless there's a movement afoot to take those away from him.

The Concert album that was mentioned- loaded with Brian's songs and influence. Remove his work and tell me what's left.  I guess another way I could sort of understand trying to debunk Brian's preeminence is if the Beach Boys' music to you is all about performance and other things than melodies and production. Fair enough if it is; that's another aspect of them, and maybe I just haven't tuned into it enough.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

No one's trying to take anything away from Brian!!!

Just the idea that one guy all on his own created the Beach Boys formula, is the only thing being even slightly disagreed with!

Yeah, and comparing The Beach Boys with the Beatles is unfair and will get us no where...

Wanna know how I always get out of the Beach Boys vs. The Beatles argument (which ALWAYS starts the moment I claim the Beach Boys as my favorite band)

I simply state that the Beatles are the greatest band in history and The Beach Boys are the greatest vocal group in history! I'm usually greeted with a drawn back fist and I promptly flee!!!!

Maybe I'm nuts or missing something here, but I don't think the "fact" that a small group of brothers/cousins/friends together (no, not equally) came up with the magical formula of the Beach Boys, is a knock to Brian in any way! So they created this formula and Brian went and wrote a ton of killer songs (with Mike and others) and the rest is history! Brian's legacy is untouched!!

[Surfer Joe]

Yeah, and comparing The Beach Boys with the Beatles is unfair and will get us no where...

Agree completely on that.  The Beach Boys had no Lennon and McCartney, no Harrison, no Ringo.  But just as importantly the Beatles had no Brian Wilson.

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

As to the rest of it, I don't think we're nearly as far apart as you might think.

I think maybe it all just comes down to what you value, what you see as important, and even what period means the most to you.  During the period I love the most- and I think Mike Love might choose it, too, partly because it was the hit period- Brian was composing and arranging and in charge in the studio, where it counted (to me), and very frequently working alone until the others came in and filled in their vocals, often joined by Marilyn and Diane, Terry Melcher, Dean Torrence, whoever.  Al also played some fabulous bass, and so did others.  Mike wrote some great lyrics, and so did others. They were the '27 Yankees, and to me Brian was Ruth and Gehrig- or like Reggie later on, the straw that stirred the drink, and more than that.

Even when Carl stepped up and produced "I Can Hear Music"- a beautiful gem- he had learned from his big brother.  As to the genesis of the sound, I won't belabor it any further, but as I've detailed a few times, I think it came mainly from the same guy I have previously alluded to pretty frequently (Spector plus Berry plus the Freshmen; the surf theme isn't as unique or central, to me).

So I happen to think the legend is pretty accurate: many agree, others don't; fair enough.

[Dancing Bear]

Oh, THAT's Mr. David Leaf, the mastermind of all Brianistas? Godamn, it figures... 

I thought Danny Hutton, David Anderle, Mike Vosse, Paul Williams, Jules Seigel, Loren Schwartz, etc. were the original Brianistas!!

Those bozos were just paving the way for Mr. Leaf.  

I'll grant you Loren, maybe Siegel. But WIlliams (acomplished writer who was Phillip Dick's literary conservator), Danny Hutton (successful pop star) and David Anderle (successful producer/record company executive) were not bozos.

Oh my. Man, have you lost your irony gland in an accident? Jeez.

[TonyW]

... (cough, cough) ...

... back to the subject matter - the 50th reunion discussion. Mike Love's latest input:

http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_12957588?nclick_check=1

Quote: "With the band's 50th anniversary coming up, Love envisions bringing Brian Wilson and Al Jardine back into the fold. He'd like to see a PBS special, as well as a movie or Broadway show along the lines of "Mamma Mia" or "Jersey Boys.""

... and just in case we should forget who was Mr Posetivity in the Beach Boys we have this quote from the Lovemeister: "I'm a Pisces and Brian Wilson is a Gemini. Astrologists say that Pisces work from inspiration and Geminis sometimes work from desperation ... or melancholy."
That settles it, now we know who was the real inspiration behind all that great work!     Surely an astrologist can't be wrong!