Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fallacies about me'

[ontor pertawst]

FUN FALLACIES ABOUT MIKE LOVE

* Sees the world as a series of ones and zeroes.

* Able to change color of shirt depending on surroundings.

* Spends every waking moment planning on how to be a judge on a teevee talent show.

* Not actually very good at expressing the human emotion of love.

* Directed "D.C. Cab" under pseudonym.



 * Spends at least 3 hours a day meditating,  yet 4 hours a day coming up with ways to sound like an insufferable asshole without a working mouth/brain connection. Oh wait.

* Outer layers of skin actually crystalline cybernetic-crustacean power armor capable of recharging when left on hot rocks in the sun and thinking about writing the hook to Good Vibrations.

* Entire career based on RhymeZone beta testing program.

* Apple juice jug? In fact, his own piss... a practice he returned to frequently during his cyclical spells of "tainted Wilson blood."

* Only occasionally allows a drop of condescension to dribble into how he says the words "Cousin Brian."

* Dead since the fabled "Summer of Love," actually. He called it an "...eerie symmetry and total drag" at the time before drowning in his own vomit in a seedy motel in Lancaster.

Collect 'em all!

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together.

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

Sooooo...you believe Brian himself had nothing to do with that?

It wouldn't be the first time Brian was "advised" on something. Wasn't BWPS something his wifeandmanagers thought would be a good idea? Was it Brian's wish to resurrect the Sweet Insanity tracks for GIOMH? Did Brian even select the songs that he would produce/record for What I Really Want For Christmas? Was the Disney album a project that Brian ever, ever had any interest in doing? I'm not suggesting that everything Brian did was forced upon him, but I am suggesting that OTHERS might be driving the projects, and decisions are being made for him, then "sold" to him.

There is a very good chance - not definite - but a chance that Brian was being prompted and advised on how TWGMTR should turn out. Maybe Mike did in fact have an initial agreement with Brian about the songwriting/composition of TWGMTR, only to have that agreement nixed when it came time to record the album. Maybe Mike let it slide or didn't protest vociferously because he didn't want the reunion to fall apart. Is it possible, just possible, that Brian liked "Waves Of Love", or at least thought it had potential, but somebody was in Brian's ear saying, "Al's been pushing this song. We don't want it on the album. If Al comes around trying to sell it to you, don't mislead him..."

So now Mike is claiming (I think) that somebody kept him from working with Brian. Maybe Mike is right, he certainly would know, he knows the inner workings that we don't. We're not supposed to. All we know is what we read in interviews, and people will only let you know what they want you to know, or what they are trying to protect - like their relationship with a Beach Boy.

[Wirestone]

Any musician of Brian's stature is advised and managed. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not we agree with Brian's decisions to take the advice or not.

Brian is an adult and not an idiot. If we truly feel as though TWGMTR suffered from lack of ML co-writes, then let's blame the producer of the record. But I seem to recall Mike's contributions being lambasted by both fans and critics.

So perhaps there was way too much of Mike on the album.

[Cam Mott]

Mike is by far Brian's most successful co-author.

Brian has been telling Mike since Thanksgiving 1998 that he wants to write with Mike. Brian says a lot of stuff so not sure what the problem there is but I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation of Mike since it has been Brian's idea. Mike is a team player and he lumped the disappointment of Brian not following through and got the job done. Now he apparently wants to try it again but more like Brian led him to believe it would be and without a third wheel between them.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The world is not missing out on 40 minutes of Spring Vacation.

In Mike's opinion, yes, the world IS missing that. And, Mike's thought that way since, when, 1974? Mike always did and always will "go with the numbers". Most Beach Boys' fans prefer the 1962-1965 period. Those songs get the biggest applause at the concerts. The comps continue to sell because of those songs. Mike truly believes those songs are what define The Beach Boys. Those are the songs that made them millionaires. Those are the songs that won them MOST of the praise they have received in their career. We on this board, and a certain percentage of fans adamantly disagree with Mike. But, he will continue to promote that period. He will continue to "go with the numbers". To Mike, he feels that is logical, that will trump everything else, that's all he knows. History is on his side. We know that because Mike keeps telling us about it.

And you know what? maybe "Spring Vacation" would've been a semi-hit single last spring/summer. Maybe more "Spring Vacation"-like songs would've sold even more copies of TWGMTR. Maybe the disappointment (for the average fan) of TWGMTR was the lack of vintage sounding Beach Boys' songs. Replace "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and add another B.Wilson/M. Love rocker and do you have a stronger album? On this board - a resounding NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO! But, for the millions of Beach Boys' fans - YYYYYEEEEESSSSSSS! According to the gospel of Michael Edward Love. It'll never change, and it will continue to divide everyone and everything, sadly....

People love the early stuff and rightly so. But it won't come back if all you do is rhyme something with "good vibration".

"We'll find a place in the sun/Where everyone can have fun, fun fun" - who wants to hear that when they can have the actual "Fun Fun Fun" instead? M.I.U. Album tanked, KTSA didn't sell, Summer in Paradise is widely considered an artistic low-point and may be the biggest non-seller of the group's entire career. Fittingly, "Spring Vacation" and "Beaches in Mind" got heavily criticized by both fans and professional writers alike. Personally I'm very open to the fun-in-the-sun thing as long as it's not BB by numbers. If Mike wants to write about the beach, fine, but he should do it with a modicum of dignity then (which was not apparent in "Kona Coast" or "Spring Vacation" or "Beaches in Mind" I think).

Well said.

If you think any NEW B. Wilson/M. Love compositions would sound like M.I.U., KTSA, and Summer In Paradise, then yes, it might be a mistake to even attempt the songwriting partnership. Or, the type of songwriting that was done on TWGMTR - giving Mike the songs; come back later after you write some words - is not to the fans' liking, then yes, forget about that, too. And, I understand how one might want to compare any potentially new B. Wilson/M. Love compositions with the most recent stuff -  even though it was 35 years ago. BTW, I like the post-1974 BW/ML songs. They didn't sell, but I liked them.

Anyway, is it fair to think or suggest that new BW/ML songs could harken back to the great, timeless, classic songs that those two guys came up with - not the songs that were written after Brian had his serious mental and physical problems? I'm sure Mike is thinking and talking about the good ones. But, we're quick to point out M.I.U. and Summer In Paradise. You see, Mike will never admit it, but he was only as good as the material Brian gave him to work with. When Brian was on the top of his game, he and Mike wrote some incomparable stuff. When Brian wrote subpar songs, Mike wrote subpar lyrics. If, as many fans are suggesting, Brian has be experiencing a renaissance in songwriting and creativity, maybe Mike could compliment the songs with some good lyrics.

I don't think that will ever come to fruition. Brian used to seek out collaborators mainly for their lyrics. Yes, some collaborators provided arrangements or a part/riff here or there, but the song and the music was overwhelmingly composed by Brian. Now, Brian uses collaborators for much more than the lyrics. He now relies on his collaborators for the music much more than he did in the past. I would think that is affecting Brian's decision as it applies to working with Mike in the future. Brian has been choosing songwriters and musicians as collaborators.

[KittyKat]

Any musician of Brian's stature is advised and managed. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not we agree with Brian's decisions to take the advice or not.

Brian is an adult and not an idiot. If we truly feel as though TWGMTR suffered from lack of ML co-writes, then let's blame the producer of the record. But I seem to recall Mike's contributions being lambasted by both fans and critics.

So perhaps there was way too much of Mike on the album.

There is a difference with Brian, and everyone knows he needs extra help that other people don't. He had a conservator at one point, and at one point that person was his wife. Even though he was legally freed of a conservator years ago,  there are people who will overrule him and "persuade" him for his own good, I'm sure.  It's hard to know what Brian really wants because he both has those people to advise him and also uses those same people as a shield against criticism for things he wanted himself. It can be hard to see which person is behind the final decisions that are made.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together.

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

Sooooo...you believe Brian himself had nothing to do with that?

Your point as stated was that Thomas didn't have anything to do with Mike & Brian not sitting down and writing, and my response was, maybe you should consider that, perhaps, he did. Both sides of the argument and all that.

[alf wiedersehen]

As someone said earlier, Brian isn't an idiot. He's had his problems in the past, as everyone here undoubtedly knows, and some form of help is great for him. However, I think there is too much help and it really stifles Brian. The people that surround him should really be more for support than to police him, as that's what seems to happen. It's a real shame that Brian can't fully be himself without somebody whispering in his ear to do something else.

[Bicyclerider]

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together.

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

If it is true we all owe a great debt of gratitutde to Mr. Thomas, based on the songs they did write together for the album.

[Jim V.]

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together.

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

Sooooo...you believe Brian himself had nothing to do with that?

Your point as stated was that Thomas didn't have anything to do with Mike & Brian not sitting down and writing, and my response was, maybe you should consider that, perhaps, he did. Both sides of the argument and all that.

No, that's how you understood my point as stated. But then again, you think John Q. Public fans are familiar with "Ol' Man River (Vocal Section)" and "Murry the K" radio spots. So I probably shouldn't be surprised by your lack of understanding on the topic at hand.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together.

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

Sooooo...you believe Brian himself had nothing to do with that?

Your point as stated was that Thomas didn't have anything to do with Mike & Brian not sitting down and writing, and my response was, maybe you should consider that, perhaps, he did. Both sides of the argument and all that.

No, that's how you understood my point as stated. But then again, you think John Q. Public fans are familiar with "Ol' Man River (Vocal Section)" and "Murry the K" radio spots. So I probably shouldn't be surprised by your lack of understanding on the topic at hand.

Really? You're going to start all that again?

[18thofMay]

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together.

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

Sooooo...you believe Brian himself had nothing to do with that?

Your point as stated was that Thomas didn't have anything to do with Mike & Brian not sitting down and writing, and my response was, maybe you should consider that, perhaps, he did. Both sides of the argument and all that.

No, that's how you understood my point as stated. But then again, you think John Q. Public fans are familiar with "Ol' Man River (Vocal Section)" and "Murry the K" radio spots. So I probably shouldn't be surprised by your lack of understanding on the topic at hand.

Bloody hell... come on mate!!

[Wirestone]

Mike is by far Brian's most successful co-author.

Brian has been telling Mike since Thanksgiving 1998 that he wants to write with Mike. Brian says a lot of stuff so not sure what the problem there is but I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation of Mike since it has been Brian's idea. Mike is a team player and he lumped the disappointment of Brian not following through and got the job done. Now he apparently wants to try it again but more like Brian led him to believe it would be and without a third wheel between them.

More than one definition of successful, Cam, as you well know. Certainly Tony Asher has a claim to that title if you're looking at pure critical acclaim. Van Dyke, too.

[Mikie]

Yeah, "SweetJim", take your differences with AGD to PM's, eh?  The repetitive nitpicking bullshit is gettin' real old.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

With Carl [Wilson], he'd been smoking since he was 13 or 14 and contracted lung cancer. That was a bummer.

Mike fancies himself a wordsmith, but the best word he can come up with to describe Carl's death -- his cousin, his bandmate of 37 years --  is "bummer"? Bummer?

he doesn't just call it a bummer, he does elaborate on the subject and correlates it with tragedies all families suffer..... and so what if he calls it a bummer? IT IS A BUMMER! "Bummer" is not a positive word. big deal. what's he supposed to do, break down and cry just so YOU won't think he's an asshole? problem is, and he knows this: he could very well break down and you'd still think he's an asshole. if I were him, I'd say anything I could to offend such "fans"

[TMinthePM]

Gettin' a little too warm here in the snake pit.

[Mendota Heights]

The champagne was drunk

How dare you go on to comment about the state of the champagne at Dennis' memorial?

By the way, I'm pretty sure it was "drank", not drunk.

Andrew is correct. Past participle of drink is drunk
Drink - present
Drank - simple past
Drunk - past participle.

It's actually getrunken. In German.

Example: Ich hab' zuviel getrunken.

[Loaf]

How come every thread now devolves into nitpicking over the tiniest possible misinterpretations of other posts?

Even though no new information is provided regarding the real facts of the situation at hand, it seems that some people think that by thrashing out every last hypothetical, based on their own interpretation, the truth can somehow be arrived at.

And no one is any the wiser. And it all kicks off again in another thread.

[phirnis]

...
I don't think that will ever come to fruition. Brian used to seek out collaborators mainly for their lyrics. Yes, some collaborators provided arrangements or a part/riff here or there, but the song and the music was overwhelmingly composed by Brian. Now, Brian uses collaborators for much more than the lyrics. He now relies on his collaborators for the music much more than he did in the past. I would think that is affecting Brian's decision as it applies to working with Mike in the future. Brian has been choosing songwriters and musicians as collaborators.

Good point! Admittedly, one I hadn't thought about before but it all makes perfect sense.

Re: the post-1974 BW/ML collaborations, I certainly do enjoy some of them, don't get me wrong, especially "It' OK", which is a huge favorite of mine. That said, stuff like "Spring Vacation" just seems very lazy and uninspired to me. Mike clearly loves the idea of being able to come up with a very simple yet effective lyric in a very short amount of time. You know, it's great when it works! And when it doesn't it really shows. I somewhat enjoy "Spring Vacation" because the music is incredibly catchy but still... Maybe they should do some TM stuff together.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

How come every thread now devolves into nitpicking over the tiniest possible misinterpretations of other posts?

Even though no new information is provided regarding the real facts of the situation at hand, it seems that some people think that by thrashing out every last hypothetical, based on their own interpretation, the truth can somehow be arrived at.

And no one is any the wiser. And it all kicks off again in another thread.

Kinda a veiled joke as a certain 'scholar' on the board frequently attacks and berates posters over their grammer and spelling.

And seeing that we get little, if very seldom, REAL insights from 'insiders', we tend to attempt to analyze and hypothesize. Such is the nature of the beast.

[Shady]

The world is not missing out on 40 minutes of Spring Vacation.

In Mike's opinion, yes, the world IS missing that. And, Mike's thought that way since, when, 1974? Mike always did and always will "go with the numbers". Most Beach Boys' fans prefer the 1962-1965 period. Those songs get the biggest applause at the concerts. The comps continue to sell because of those songs. Mike truly believes those songs are what define The Beach Boys. Those are the songs that made them millionaires. Those are the songs that won them MOST of the praise they have received in their career. We on this board, and a certain percentage of fans adamantly disagree with Mike. But, he will continue to promote that period. He will continue to "go with the numbers". To Mike, he feels that is logical, that will trump everything else, that's all he knows. History is on his side. We know that because Mike keeps telling us about it.

And you know what? maybe "Spring Vacation" would've been a semi-hit single last spring/summer. Maybe more "Spring Vacation"-like songs would've sold even more copies of TWGMTR. Maybe the disappointment (for the average fan) of TWGMTR was the lack of vintage sounding Beach Boys' songs. Replace "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and add another B.Wilson/M. Love rocker and do you have a stronger album? On this board - a resounding NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO! But, for the millions of Beach Boys' fans - YYYYYEEEEESSSSSSS! According to the gospel of Michael Edward Love. It'll never change, and it will continue to divide everyone and everything, sadly....

And that is why Mike does not deserve to be writing with Brian. He got his chance and he gave us songs two of the most clichéd possible songs that could have been named in a parody thread on this board. "Beaches in Mind"? really? If that's the best he's god well maybe another album should not be on the cards.

Isn't it funny. Mike had issues with a perfect Beach Boys tour. The type of tour The Beach Boys deserved and now he's spewing all this BS about writing with Brian.

How the hell does he have defenders on this board.

[Jason]

Because he's the greatest.

[Shady]

Because he's the greatest.

Was the greatest

[Mendota Heights]

Kinda a veiled joke as a certain 'scholar' on the board frequently attacks and berates posters over their grammer and spelling.

It's spelled grammar.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Kinda a veiled joke as a certain 'scholar' on the board frequently attacks and berates posters over their grammer and spelling.

It's spelled grammar.

Ha, thanks. But that was a baited hook...