The Smiley Smile Message Board

i'm still making my mind up, perhaps FTTBA peaks higher than anything on TLOS but i'm not sure right now..

Having all of the remaining BB's voices on one project makes it better right off the bat, imo.

Having said that, it's pretty similar in quality. But whereas to me TLOS has 2 or 3 standout songs (Live Let Live, Midnight's Another Day & Southern California), TWGMTR has at least 5 or 6 (Think About The Days, TWGMTR, Isn't It Time, FTTBA, Pacific Coast Highway, Summer's Gone)

lol Let's not get into ridiculous discussions now, even tho TWGMTR has some solid moments (Life Suite mostly) nothing is near as good and well made as the songs on TLOS ! i mean, just listen to this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0zrvCWJZQ0
just listen man.

Yer, if i'm being honest I know that TWGMTR ain't no TLOS, i just want it to be ;D

And so did i, before i heard the record..

well i like the record, but didn't top TLOS obviously, so let's hope for the next one then.

I'm convinced that if the whole album had been that extended 'Life Suite' that's been talked about then the thing would have seen absolutely rave reviews, but i suppose the powers that be can't have a beach boys reunion without a load of 'Beaches In Mind' dross.

Exactly :/ but in my heart TLOS will always stay as the last true Beach Boys album.

TWGMTR needs more bass harmonica and clip-clop percussion.

and humor, not unimportant

YES.

I even posted a while back that I hoped they would re-record this song for the new album.

Tough question. I think TLOS is overall more constant and I think I prefer the mood/production of that album over TWGMTR's, but the best songs on TWGMTR are better than TLOS's best songs.

good kind of love is a cheasy low point on TLOS for me.  TLOS has sorta lost some luster for me over the years.  Live Let Live, MAD and SC are all great.  But the rest range from ok to meh.  It's gonna take a while before i can judge the two properly.  also. i need to hear TWGMTR.  lol.

Well that's also why i quoted that song, even the low point of the album sounds great, it has a very well made structure, great bassline and production and catchy melody without the necessary to be ridiculous, if ONLY TWGMTR could have this in its low points.. i mean, say what you want about Good Kinf Of Love (as for myself i just love it, i think it's catchy but i agree there's much better on the album) but it's far less worst than, prehaps, Spring Vacation or Beaches In Mind.


As for TWGMTR high points, idk, for me From There To Back Again is on the same level of quality as the outstanding Midnight's Another Day but then is murdered by that terrible effect on voices..

For me, the high point of That's Why God is indeed "From There To Back Again". It outshines the high points on That Lucky Old Sun (being "Midnight's Another Day" and "Live Let Live") by a bit, but I'd say overall TLOS is the better album.

 :love

But, it's a Brian Wilson album....

Another Captain Obvious on the board ? jeez! well hey, thanks for saving the day again then!

I don't care man, it's so good that it's just an Beach Boys album to me, that's the way it should have been and that's how i want to remember it, that The Beach Boys ended their career with this outstanding album, as good as the 70's.

Stupidest and most unlikely idear ever, but if they went back and had Mike, Al and Bruce redo some of the backing vocals on TLOS (and any other Brian Wilson album, really), well, I think the results would be fantastic. Even if they just redid a few songs from scratch, possibly for single B-sides or something, that'd be keen. Stuff like "Saturday Morning In The City" or "Sherry, She Needs Me" (among others) just don't live up to their potential (imo), and I think the Beach Boys doing them would help in a big way.

It'll never happen, though :'(

TLOS is a good 7.5/10 for me. TWGMTR is probably 5/10

btw If pet sounds is a 10, im not gonna give TLOS more than 7.5.

In saying that, TWGMTR is certainly not 50% as good as Pet Sounds nor is TLOS 75% as good

Ive confused myself now  ???

Well that's what i meant!!!
and actually when i listen to the album i can really picture each members parts, Mike Love would be great on the narrative, right ? i can definitely picture Al Jardine doing lead on some songs like Morning Beat!

I mean the album is great, so having The Beach Boys singin' on it and releasing it as an official Beach Boys album, it can only be epic! would be without any doubt the best thing since Love You for sure.

I hear a lot of similarities between TLOS and TWGMTR.

Both have a short album opening song - That Lucky Old Sun/Think About The Days

Both have an ending group of suite-like songs that is the highlight of the album

Both have an ending, Brian-led song about past dreams and past people   

Both have a Mexican flavored song - Mexican Girl/The Private Life Of Bill And Sue

Both have a middle section of songs that are Californian, outdoorsy, positive, girlfriend/love, "let's go do stuff"

Both have an album title song

Both have colorful album covers

I wonder if, during the early planning of TWGMTR, the parties involved had some discussion about TLOS and some influence shined through. If you take the spoken interludes off of TLOS, and add the Beach Boys' voices, I see two similar albums.

I'd say "Morning Beat" would be one of those everyone-takes-a-line numbers.  Picture it:

Brian does the "That lucky old sun" intro.

Then Mike kicks in with the opening "Mow mamayama", and suddenly it's the friggin' Beach Boys comin' atcha.  A classic Mike uptempo lead: "The sun burns a hole through the 6AM haze / Turns up the volume and shows off its rays..."

Al steps in with "Another Dodger blue sky is crowning LA / This city of angels is blessed every day..."

And then Brian takes the stage with the backing vocal chorus:  "That lucky old sun / Smiles on me..."  (Take that lyrical back-reference, Mike!)

I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it!

(Oh, and "Southern California" would work really well with Brian, Mike, and Al trading off leads as well.  Brian on the first two lines, up to "Singing with my brothers", then Mike on "In harmony / Supporting each other", then Al.  How's that for a statement right there?  With Bruce on the repeated "Whoa whoa whoa it's magical" at the end...)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

My Pleasure, Ziggy, always happy to raise a question whenever someone is propagating spurious bullshit in order to justify their fanatically manipulated view of the world.

TLOS is great.  I don't begrudge your appreciation; and I understand you're offering a double compliment (good BW equates to Beach Boys level).

But you're on your own if you consider TLOS a career bookend for the BB's (when in fact it was Love You  :lol, :lol :lol)

Serious business man, serious business! how dare you Ziggy Stardust say Lucky Old Sun is an Beach Boys album, how dare ? f*cking drama man, this is the end, you crossed the line man, you n00b, i'm calling the cops and banning you right away, serious business, no kidding around here, don't you dare man, you and you're f*cking fanatically manipulated view of the world, you're going to jail next to Charles Manson.

Propagating spurious bullsh*t man, spurious bullsh*t.

Yeah i think TLOS is the gem of the brian wilson solo era (minus smile).  It's not a beach boys album, and i'd never consider it one.  The last great beach boys album is probably Sunflower. 

Yeah Runaways, you better not start propagating spurious bullsh*t in order to justify your fanatically manipulated view of the world.

hmmmmmm if pet sounds is a 10/10, then i'd say TLOS is a 5/10. 

I can't trust anyone whose username is named after that insanely shitty Bon Jovi song. He secretly wishes Bon Jon Bovi sung "Summer's Gone" and all other Beach Boys songs. He's cursing Brian Wilson's contributions to "Summer's Gone" as I speak. How you likin' "Summer's Gone" over there? Pretty damn good, I'll bet.

TWGMTR really has its high points, some of which may be better than anything both the group and BW did since BW88 and "Somewhere Near Japan". As an actual album, however, TLOS holds together incredibly well, so I find it really hard to choose between the two. I can definitely say I prefer the overall sound of TLOS.

It's not even close but it has a few really great songs sung by the surviving Beach Boys so that's pretty cool.

Wow.. I wish I heard TLOS the way you guys do. It never moved me, aside from the 3 songs I mentioned in my 1st reply.

TWGMTR is not as end to end awesome as TLOS.

Imagine though if a few of your least favourite tracks on the new album were replaced by your new Al favourites from Postcard.

Even without a new Bruce song stuff like Looking down the coast, san simeon, and I always will could have made TWGMTR more consistantly epic!

Shame it didn't have a longer incubation period with more equal contribution from all Beach Boys.

But yeh, TLOS is more a complete piece than TWGMTR, however if we ever get to hear a finished 'my life' suite/album.....

I'm with ya, man. TLOS moves me not at all...even Midnight sounds kinda forced to these ears!
The new album has the frickin BB singing some decent BW songs...that's what I enjoy.
Well, whatever... hope ya can still enjoy the album!

If you only rate the Life Suite and not the whole album,
I'd actually say with obvious handicaps, that it is almost as good as Pet Sounds.

As I said last week, the only reason TLOS exist is because it's not a Beach Boys album. In other words, The Beach Boys as they have been for the last thirty years would have not considered TLOS to be an acceptable Beach Boys product. And that, in itself, speaks volumes. From what I've heard the new album does have some great moments, and the mere fact that they are back together putting out something that is good is a remarkable achievement that is hard to not appreciate. But it doesn't seem to be in the same league as TLOS.

I love twgmtr, but there is nothing that matches the *OMG Gasp!* moment in tlos after Southern California returns to the "Om mama Yama glory hallelujah"! Sends a thrill down my spine every time. So tlos > twgmtr for me.

I think That's Why God Made The Radio is way better than That Lucky Old Sun.  And I think TLOS is good. 

i didn't know there was a bon jovi song called runaway, why do YOU know that. HMM??  :psyche
*it's for we'll run away*
generally i like TLOS but not nearly as much as some people here.  A lot of it is old fashioned in a bad way. 

True, true! but you know, after all these years not making any albums you'd thought they learned their lesson, right ? and move on to something more artistic to get back some eral hardcore fanbase and all..

Well if the thing with High Llamas f*cked up, i guess it couldn't go anywhere, but how was that impossible ? Brian Wilson had an epic album to offer, the boys aren't doing much expect for touring and obviously aren't interesting young kids, why keep on trying ? why not take time and create real music again ?

It's a shame that it didn't happened, not that it was supposed to be a BB album or whatever, but what if.. oh well, i guess you're right.

Yikes

I think the forum has 2 camps really, I LOVE TLOS, but i think TWGMTR is also amazing.

Can someone give me the lowdown on the high llamas thing, i have no idea what it's about?

people wanted brian to work with the guy from the high llamas but he wasn't feeling it, so it never happened.  I think anyway, i'm not sure if it was brian that officially shut it down, but i read here he didn't like it.  i also read that some band members were creeped by him too

High Llamas is a good band from London, in 1996 they released their album Hawaii and it is heavily influenced by Pet Sounds
(check it out, you don't need to be a pro to hear the inspiration : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIZnhfCCbIo)

Bruce Johnston (i believe so) loved the album wanted to make a new Beach Boys album in collaboration between Brian Wilson and Sean O'Hagan
sounds cool huh? but yeah, it was too perfect to happen..

Here is an article that pretty much tells the whole story :
http://uncanny1.blogspot.fr/2005/05/brian-wilsonandy-paleysean-ohagan.html
enjoy brah

Huh, thanks for this-- I had heard about the idea of collaborating and always wondered why it never panned out. Too bad, really-- I love The High Llamas.

Didn't Joe Thomas say his favorite beach boys album is Surf's Up?  Perhaps Joe didn't know Brian then, but i think he learned.  Brian obviously trusted him to go back, and that recent interview Thomas gave put had him come off pretty well/knowledgeable. 

It tells the "whole story" in an somewhat biased way. According to other stories and sources (Carlin's book among them), Brian did not care for Sean at all -- thought he was on drugs -- and was insulted that the band thought this was the guy he should work with. He started Imagination right after.

A good thread on the topic: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9255.0.html

Yes, he acquittd himself nicely. I don't think most of the problems with this record can be pinned on Joe Thomas. The ending trio of songs are so strong, I want to hear the suite!

Thus proving who was really on drugs.

I can see Wilson's point about not wanting to work with someone who's doing what he already did decades ago. It would feel a bit weird to work with a disciple sometimes, you want more of an equal or someone to call you on your sh*t.

How many other instances do you have of Bruce Johnston lobbying for the arty side, tho? WEIRD.

Brian should have made a counter-proposal for a producer for the V2 album...

SPECTOR.

(dramatic chord)

Jesus, could you imagine the behind the scenes footage alone? Quality.

I think this is why brian ultimately liked thomas.  Thomas said that brian is weirded out by disciple types.  And I wonder if in brians brain he attributes smile/high llama music to drugs.  I dunno, brian wasnt writing classics at tha time. I dont think we missed much. 

In regards to tlos, I dont think it has the highs of twgmtr.  Its missing a little magic for me. Still great though. 

Was it Domenic Priore who said that going with J.Thomas was in large part due to Melinda Wilson?

Either way an album out on V2 with Wilson/Paley tunes, all the Beach Boys and Sean O Hagan guiding it would have been immense.

As said elsewhere, primarily by Bruce, one of the biggest mistakes made by the band/Brian/Melinda or whoever messed it up!

From what I've heard so far, the production on the new album is going to be a problem for my enjoyment of it.  There's just a lot more life and air to TLOS than on what I've heard on the (admittedly compressed) new one.  Which bums me out, because I quite like the songs themselves...even the goofy ones have that BBs-Brian thing going on that we love, they sound very right..  I'm glad to see the production issue doesn't seem to be marring things as much for others, though...it's easy for all of us to forget that the people who make decisions have to think about pleasing a whole lot more people (including industry types) than just us.

I feel your pain, man.

I mean, there are all sorts of reasons why they end up going the route they do, I guess. It's just a bit inexplicable why no one with any power in the organization asks, "Why do we have to aim for the middle if we were not always an FM-lite band." I think that's how the 80s had a negative effect on great 60s artists, as the radio stations that played both new music and 60s music tended to be these Lite-music stations and so these 60s artists then started to aim for the sound of the new acts that were featured on those stations.

Or an unqualified disaster, as Brian was pressured into yet another project he didn't want to do.

The new album is much more consistent than TLOS. That album was ruined by the spoken word stuff, and only had a few good songs.
BW's vocals sound much better on this album.

I think that the Beach Boys should record a remake of Dark Side Of The Moon. It would have to sell, right? It did wonders for Pink Floyd. Plus I bet it would be a good album. That song "Money" sure is a catchy number.....

I prefer this one as an album. I think both have an equal number of weak tracks, and I don't think either are great by any stretch, but the highpoints on this have more going for them - there are more good songs -  and after all, this is a Beach Boys album! That seals it for me by a mile.

The concept of TLOS also always felt a little forced, like they all got really hung up on the Smile longform, link track thing. I much prefer the personality of TWGMTR - it's a fun album, not overburdened with its own reputation.

IMO at the very least it would have sounded better than Imagination.  I won't get into the 'is Brian 'forced' into most things?' argument.

Bruce Johnston put it best I think, also Brian loved Hawaii didn't he?

But even GIOMH wasn't an 'unqualified disaster', it's a massive stretch to think that a well produced Beach Boys album (with good Paley/Wilson songs etc) would have been that bad.

On the topic -- TLOS is special because it was basically a full batch of freshly composed BW songs, to which he not only wrote music but quite a few lyrics. He also did a lion's share of the arranging, with Scott's help. That batch of songs was really his baby, and you can see he's still proud of them. And even though most of the songs refer back to an earlier style or type of song (not necessarily Beach Boys ones), that jibes with the overall feel of the material.

The issue with TLOS is that it was then strung together into the "concept" by Scott and Darian, and Van Dyke added the narratives. I'm pretty neutral on these additions (and actually think the material falls pretty naturally into a "day in the life of LA" concept). But the songs stand on their own. What's more, some of the best material -- Message Man and Just Like Me and You (Oh Mi Amor is decent too) -- was relegated to B-sides.

This new record has less of a fresh creative contribution from Brian -- only five of the songs are new, and two of those involve Brian working on top of someone else's chord progression or riff. There's less creative transparency about how the songs were created, too -- even though it seems like the impetus for the project came from BW, which counts for a lot.

The songs do stand on their own, which is nice. They have the Beach Boys' voices, which is nice. The material is less consistent than TLOS -- the lows are lower -- but the highs seem higher. That ending suite is as good as anything Brian has done in his solo career.

Ultimately, they are very different products. One is a batch of homegrown BW tunes, pushed into a concept for public presentation, but still retaining the handmade feel. The other is a more varied batch of material, with gorgeous vocal presentation and some simply stunning moments, meant for 50th anniversary consumption. In each case, there are some compromising elements. But there are clear positive points to each, too.

Personally, I think I prefer TLOS. I find it more consistent, and I like Brian leading the way on all the songwriting. But TWGMTR outclasses it in a couple of important ways, and is a fitting capstone to the band's legacy.

Basically, don't make me choose!

TLOS coming out of the Southbank Centre/Royal Festival Hall's commission for 'an original piece of work' is the main reason it's a 'concept' record right?

I've not heard Message Man and Just Like Me and You, what releases are these B Sides on?

Yep. It was just an album with Scotty for a year or so (they started it -- and did a large part of the work -- in the summer of 06). Then they had the commission. Brian's original submission -- which was super short and (I think) based on the Little Prince -- didn't pass anyone's test. So he brought in the material he'd been working on with Scott. They wrote some new, more downbeat material (including MAD, I believe), and then while Brian was out of the country, Darian and Scott spent a week or two sequencing it.

There are actually five bonus tracks.

I'm Into Something Good (Cover version with Carole King, originally released on Best Buy's version of the record)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bspy0vlTqQ

Good Kind of Love (with Carole King -- this is just the album version with CK on backing vox, not very different -- also on the Best Buy version)

Just Like Me and You (Original song by BW, on the Best Buy version)
(This is unavailable to listen to anywhere online)
http://tny.gs/KrcHi9

Message Man (with Danny Hutton on backing vocals, from the iTunes release)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6rFh8OyHfg

Oh Mi Amor (also on the iTunes release)
(http://www.albumlinernotes.com/That_Lucky_Old_Sun.html)

Brian dissed O'Hagan big time.

O'Hagan did not hit it off with anyone except Bruce. Carl was nice to him, as per O'Hagan himself and that was it.

O'Hagan is Loveaphobic.

There's no way this would have happened.

Grooveshark is your friend.

Personally, I've played the new record a few times now, and the suite is indeed better than anything Brian or the Boys have done in 30 years or more. Easily, in my opinion. That said, TLOS is still my preferred album. Yeah, the narrative is goofy and some of the lyrics don't quite scan properly, but my expectations weren't high going into it based on Brian's earlier solo albums (other than SMiLE), and I couldn't believe how strong it was. There isn't a single clunker on that album for me, yes, including "Mexican Girl". I love that album dearly. The new record is much better than it had any right to be, and I suspect that if the suite had indeed been the majority of the album it would've trumped TLOS for me, but as it stands, I think TLOS>TWGMTR

By the way, I find sequencing "Think About the Days" to come just before "From There to Back Again" works pretty well.

I agree with the shouts of TLOS > TWGMTR but the suite (especially From There to Back Again) really does decimate the high points of TLOS.

I hate this song!

yeah i don't care for that song either.  it's not just MOR, it's old fashioned 1951 mor!

I like it but it kind of sounds like Brian Wilson: The Musical.

He said it was his attempt to write a Carole King-style tune.

What an asshole.

I think he succeeded, personally. A lot of the songs on the first half of TLOS were derivative, sure, but I think they were intentionally so. It's not like he sat down and wrote "Good Kind of Love" thinking he was breaking new ground. He was deliberately evoking the kind of song coming out of Brill Building, because it was part of his frame of reference as a songwriter. Might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's sort of equivalent to McCartney's "Martha My Dear" or "When I'm 64".

Lyrically TWGMTR is better than TLOS

(http://files.myopera.com/agustusmax/albums/10234662/Kill%20it%20with%20fire.jpg)

Totally man, Spring Vacation! Good Vibrations!

Apples and oranges....lyrically TWGMTR and TLOS both have cringe-worthy lyrics. Some of the lyrics on TWGMTR are of the "let's chuck in some old references to past songs" variety and some of the lyrics on TLOS read like really bad Rod McKuen poetry (and I mean the songs, not the VDP narration). Both suffer from a bit too much "adult contemporary radio" production.  If you can get past that, I'd say there's an equal amount of good tunes on both so they're about dead even for me.

I haven't heard all of That's Why God Made the Radio yet, but from what I've heard, its no comparison. This album is wayyyyyyyy better then That Lucky Old Sun.

In my opinion, Brian Wilson '88 and Imagination are much better than TLOS. While there is a lot that could be said about the production of Brian's solo debut, there were so many strong songs; "Love and Mercy", "Walkin' the Line", "Melt Away", "Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight", etc. I think "Let It Shine" is great too, with a great vocal, but I guess that's more of Jeff Lynne thing, so whatever. Overall though, a very strong album, and very Brian. Sure it was '80s, but to me it sounds like an '80s update on Love You, just a bit more streamlined. Then Imagination, yeah, it's super adult contemporary. And yeah, there seems to be a bit of filler ("South American", "Dream Angel", "Sunshine"). But tell me "Your Imagination" isn't one of the best feelgood BW or BB tunes since, what, "This Whole World"? "She Says That She Needs Me" is absolutely gorgeous, and "Cry" and "Lay Down Burden" are really emotional high points that it seems only BW can hit you with. And I feel like "Cry" and "Lay Down Burden" have much more sincere emotion to them than "Midnight's Another Day", which, as I've said many times before, just seems to be Scott Bennett changing an up-tempo BW song into a slow, mournful ballad with a "'Til I Die" type feel.

But my main problem from TLOS comes from the songs. And most just don't stack up. "California Role", "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl", "Mexican Girl", etc., they are just not that strong. "Morning Beat" and "Oxygen to the Brain" are cool, quirky little rockers, but after hearing quite a bit of TWGMTR, it's obvious that what was missing from those kinda songs is THE BEACH BOYS! They inject the songs with that extra bit of personality that Brian's band can'. If "Isn't It Time" or "Spring Vacation" were songs on a BW solo album, they might appear to be quite "meh", but having The Beach Boys vocals on them puts them in another stratosphere. Even stuff like "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" and "Shelter", which would probably fit in comfortably on TLOS, gain that extra bit of greatness from hearing The Beach Boys blend. And I think that's why TWGMTR outdoes TLOS. Also the fact that the tearjerkers on TWGMTR ("From There to Back Again", "Summer's Gone") seem a lot more believable, and therefore sad and poignant, than things like "Midnight's Another Day" and "Southern California".

i have a feeling the highs of TWGMTR are higher than TLOS.  Usually that's what keeps me coming back to an album.

I think you make some good points, but you don't find

"I had this dream
Singing with my brothers
In harmony
Supporting each other"

to be believable?

I think they both have their merits and both are certainly on par with one another as far as overall enjoyability.  I guess in the end it's whatever floats your boat.  For me what puts TWGMTR slightly ahead of TLOS is like someone else said you not only have Brian but Al, Mike, Bruce and David as well.  This is a Beach Boys record in the truest sense of the word and hearing those voices blend once again for me puts it ahead of any solo project out there.  There is also something to be said for the palatable joy that springs off the speakers on this record.  I'm not saying things off TLOS like "Morning Beat" or "Forever My Surfer Girl" don't exude a similar quality but there is something special going on with this record and quite frankly given how sour many of us were on the prospects of it heading in, I think it's going to knock more than a few of us on our backsides once we have time to take it in.  This is a record with something to say.

Okay, I guess maybe I worded that wrong. It's believable obviously, but I just get the feeling that Brian didn't create that song as a self referential thing about his brothers and his music career. He apparently found Scott's lyrics to be good enough to use, but whatever. You know, that's the thing about TLOS with me. It very much seems to be about the "Brian Wilson mythology" and I don't know, but it just seems lame to me. And I'm not so sure Brian really wants to sing about that. He'd probably rather sing about having a good time, or girls, or summer.

See, on the other hand, we know the "Summer's Gone" idea was indeed Brian's, so even with a Bon Jovi co-writing credit, it seems to be more of a "Brian" idea if you know what I mean.

You're right. It is about building up or reinforcing the mythology. At the same time, a song like Southern California is also just about coming to terms with your life in some affirmative way. People put down the TLOS lyrics a lot but I find that I connect with so many on a personal level. It's not that I necessarily connect with them because I've had similar experiences but because they are written in a way that I find to be very engaging. So lines in Southern California like "tried to slow down the motion so it could move us again" to me resonates very nicely. I've often said that it would be nice if life had a pause button or a rewind or even a fast forward. And to me, that whole album really taps into that desire in a way that I find to be quite emotional. In that sense, for me, I hardly even think about the album as being about Brian (or, in many ways, being about Scott).


Maybe but he did recently name check it as one of his favourite albums. And, anyway, a lot of the songs on TLOS are about having a good time, girls, and summer.

Well, the first four of those at least.

David claims he's on the record, though. Who knows?

What we talkin' bout here? Is there a rumor David isn't on the record? Or are we just talking vocally?

wirestone seems to think david isn't on the album.

jimmerz, I'm not sure why you always bring this one up. Brian has always had folks writing lyrics for him from his point of view, most famously so on the entirety of Pet Sounds (sans "I'm Waiting For The Day"). Granted the difference is Brian's direction versus Scott writing them on his own, but Brian must have approved the final results both lyrically and musically before going ahead with recording it. And who's to say Scott wasn't writing about himself at the same time? And who's to say the original version of "Midnight's Another Day" is any good?

I never found this song particularly "'Til I Die"-esque, either. Closer to something like "Happy Days" in which the song is through the viewpoint of someone who's been through some tough shtuff but finds some kind of resolution in it. "'Til I Die" is "I'm insignificant and I want to die" straight up.

JUSTSAYIN', and that's just me.

Just vocally, I think -- the credits put David on guitar on about seven of the tracks.  Not prominent but present seems like a good description...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

No one has yet to provide me with a single moment where he's audible. I think the notion that he's actually on the record is a polite fiction.

you're talking guitars right? you don't think he plays guitars "audibly" on the album because of the other guitarist credited isn't someone you put on the sideline?

According to Mr.Blum, he's credited with guitar on seven tracks. Why falsely credit him on seven tracks and not all tracks? Even David says he's on the album, although I don't think his voice is on there. Haven't you been the one sayin' "Sans a few seemingly accidental omissions, the credits don't lie. Brian produced this, etc. etc. etc." or am I mistaken?

I'm talking about what I can hear. The credits are already demonstrably wrong on two tracks -- no sax player is listed on TWGMTR and no keyboard player on Isn't It Time -- so I'm not giving the musician credits a huge amount of weight. I'm sure David went into the studio, and he likely did record on some seven songs -- I just can't hear where he is on them. And if he's mixed so low that he's not audible, how is he meaningfully on the record?

But perhaps I'm just causing trouble ...

Do you even know what Dave's leads would sound like on these songs, though? It sounds bad, but I know I don't. I know what it sounded like in '63, but obviously it's probably different nowadays.

As for a couple omissions in the credits, well, that's a couple omissions of instruments listed. It doesn't say "Keyboards - Brian Wilson" when it's actually someone else, for instance.

It's been negative-one days since the album came out -- hardly a surprise people haven't picked him out yet.  After all, a few threads over from here, people are still arguing over whether Brian's on various Surf's Up / CATP tracks forty years later.

But if you can hear any guitar on "Isn't It Time", or any electric on "Bill And Sue", he's the only such player credited on those, IIRC.

The other tracks he's on, there are up to five guitar players credited -- good luck spotting any of them individually!  (Except maybe Skunk Baxter...)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Heck, back in '63 he probably wouldn't have been playing lead, not with Carl there.  He may well be doing extra rhythm parts now too -- that whole Phil Spector wall-of-guitarists thing.  They'd probably only give him the solo if it was meant to be in a surf style, and I can't see that fitting in something like TWGMTR...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

For me, I had that same type of "moment" during the part of "Summer's Gone" where the bg voices swelled up with one of those last "another summer's gone" lines. For whatever aching melancholy they were going for in the song, they got me in spades right there, as I immediately thought of Dennis and Carl, the first Beach Boys record I bought in 1975, my first BB's concert in 1979, things that have happened to me over the last decade, how the BBs are truly here in the present of 2012, and how summer really is slipping away for many of us. All in the course of about 3 seconds. I was pure blubber.

Those four "suite" songs at the end, with "Think About The Days" tagged onto the beginning of them, are as good of an album "side" that I've heard in many a moon -- a surfer moon or otherwise. And while the jury is still out for the rest of the album with me, those five tunes alone make it far superior to TLOS in terms of my own preference. As someone else stated, while each album has its own musical highs and lows (some even *really* low on "Radio," IMHO), the highs are just higher for me with the new record. Even if this ends up being a great "half album" for me, or the last new studio album the Beach Boys ever commit to tape...I'm completely satisfied. What an amazing story with an amazing ending.

(Still...part of me wonders what an entire BB's record with the vibe of those five songs would've sounded like? A man can still dream about a possible "next" time that surprises us with something even more amazing? No?) :)

I've come to think you can't have the last four songs without the rest of the record. The suite gains so much power because of the upbeat vibe of so much of the other material.

Just imagining "what-ifs" for a second, I think there's a very good chance that if an entire album were built around the concept of a long form suite, that there would still be plenty of upbeat songs that would be specifically written with that framework in mind. After all, Strange World was supposedly part of the original suite (along with I'd Go Anywhere), yet it still feels perfectly at home within the context of those other more melancholy and reflective final tracks. At least it does to me.

Thus, for me, and only having what we have now, I'm still warming to which songs outside the suite I feel fit well along with my perfect album "side." That is, in creating a longer album, or mini-album, that still feels complete yet allows me to nuke the songs I personally don't care for or want to skip over. At this point, I'm still tinkering, and I'm thinking about weaving in a couple of songs after Strange World but *before* FTTBA. Perhaps, Daybreak and Shelter for me. They seem to fit that slice of day/time concept well, and I like having a full Mike vocal within the suite to complete the overall "Beach Boys feel" to all proceedings. :)


This is a longer form that I personally like:


Think About The Days (perhaps just an edit of an introductory snippet)
Strange World
Daybreak Over The Ocean
Shelter
From There To Back Again
Pacific Ocean Highway
Think About The Days (a longer reprise edit)
Summer's Gone

The title track stands on its own well for me...just like the introductory single that it was. The other four -- SV, Beaches, Bill & Sue and Isn't It Time -- are the ones I personally don't care for (and I know that everyone on earth *except* me seems to love Isn't It Time...lol.).

I'm always the odd man out here. I dislike most of the lyrics in TLOS. My favorite song is Good Kind of Love, probably because the song stands on its own and not being a song by Brian about Brian.

I like all the songs on TWGMTR, but I think I like the beachy fun songs more. Spring Vacation, Isn't It Time, and The Private Life of Bill and Sue are so catchy.

And the bicycle bell in Strange World at least as cringe-inducing as Mike Love referencing other song titles.

Comparing them as albums seems ridiculously unfair to the new one -- I'd take the single line "I've got a notion we come from the ocean and God almighty" over the entire new album.

I'm still letting Strange World and From There To Back Again grow on me -- they seem the kind of songs that need a lot of time before you can decide if they're great or don't work -- but of the rest, Shelter, Isn't It Time and The Private Life of Bill And Sue are *almost* as good as the worst stuff on That Lucky Old Sun, and the rest isn't.