Carl and Mike's relationship

[guitarfool2002]

I must have missed the part in Mike's recent interview where he said things positive or congratulatory about TWGMTR.

[SMiLE Brian]

He also says the interviewer is "hung up" on the C50 tour.

[guitarfool2002]

Holland had gone to #36 and 15 BO went to #8 and LY to #53. I don't know if all of the fanecdotal justifications are true or not but it seems the public's support was pretty well expressed with its bucks. If I had a band I think this would tell me a story about my public support.

This, exactly...now can some of the folks better understand why other fans might be a little miffed if not outright calling bullshit on Mike's comments about #3 being "not bad"?

They have been consistently squandering such chances to make something great for four decades! And when they did make a successful and well received comeback album last year, Mike most recently acted bitchy in an interview when asked about it.

Consider it was the highest charting album the Beach Boys had in the US since 1965, and the highest charting in the UK since 1970.

In light of that, and this most recent discussion on 15 B.O. and the rest, Mike's comments are even more foolish. And I'll continue to call them out any chance I get, call it a cause celebre for me because I liked the new album and Mike is both embarrassing himself and angering fans yet again when he could be celebrating the best charting album they've had in 40+ years.

And quite a respectable "comeback" effort too, considering how weak some of the previous comebacks have been.

You would think the fans driving the 2012 "comeback" album to #3 on the charts would indeed tell a story about their public support.

Again, I ask: Does anyone have an idea what successful project Mike may have been comparing the 2012 album with when he made those comments about the lack of hit singles, #3 not bad, and all of that?

[Cam Mott]

I don't have the interview in front of me but I thought I remember it was in the context of 1965 and a time when he and Brian sat in a room together and wrote. It would indeed tell a story of support that is "not bad" but also didn't sustain like had happened in the past. I probably should have looked up the interview first.

[guitarfool2002]

The link to the full interview:
http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/music/articles/20130415beach-boys-mike-love-interview-arizona.html


The segment of the interview where TWGMTR came up:

Q: What do you think of the album that came out last year?

A: Well, I wasn’t consulted very much with that album. Brian and I had spoken about a year before we even got started with that album. He wanted to do some re-records of some of our favorite songs. And I was up for that. We mentioned a couple of songs to each other. But that never happened. Nor was I able to actually get in a room and write with Brian like I did back in the ’60s. So that was, to me, unfortunate.

On the other hand, he had some songs he had been working on for several years. Brian has done a lot of things as a solo artist over the past 10 or 15 years, but it was nice to get together and do something in the studio together for the first time in many years. It sounded great, reminded me of 1965 again. And Brian said that, too.

Q: So you would like to get together with Brian and work on new material?

A: If that could be done. Just Brian. Yeah. I would be open to that.

Q: “That’s Why God Made the Radio” sounds more like a Beach Boys album than a Brian solo album.

A: That’s because Alan is singing and I’m singing, and Bruce came up with his parts. So yeah, it does. Because it is (laughs). Anyway, it sounds like you’re hung up on that album. Or that tour.

Q: Well, it’s recent history.

A: Well, it debuted at No. 3. That’s not bad. But it didn’t stay up there very long. To have sustained success, like we’ve been known to do, you need a single that will chart and stay in the Top 20 or the Top 10 for three months. And that didn’t happen with this album.

Q: Do you have a favorite era of the Beach Boys?

A: Well, yeah. I mean, “California Girls,” I wrote the words in the hallway while Brian was working on the track with the Wrecking Crew, this really great group of musicians in LA. I wrote the words to “Good Vibrations” on the way to the studio when he finally decided what was going to be the track for the single. So, yeah, I had a really good time back in the ’60s co-writing a bunch of great songs.

[Cam Mott]

I nailed it.

[guitarfool2002]

We'll be watching closely to see what kind of hit single Mike can conjure up next for that kind of sustained, top-10, three-month-long success he said they didn't deliver in 2012.

At the same time I'll be holding onto my Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes ticket waiting for them to ring my doorbell with balloons, camera crews, and a giant oversized check in my name. 

[SMiLE Brian]

Does anybody else find the "only me and Brian in a room together writing songs" statements by Mike kind of weird? Its not like Brian is that helpless and manipulated by other people to stay away from Mike.

If he doesn't want to write songs with Mike, so be it.

[Dancing Bear]

If Mike didn't want to add more dates to C50, so be it.

Finally you saw the light! 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

If Mike didn't want to add more dates to C50, so be it.

Finally you saw the light! 

Boy, you're really supporting your cause there. 

[SMiLE Brian]

Yeah, that isn't my quote.

[Jim V.]

Yeah, that isn't my quote.

Yeaahhh...didn't runnersdialzero get in a lot of trouble for doing the same exact thing? Hmmm.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Yep. Sure did.

[Cam Mott]

Does anybody else find the "only me and Brian in a room together writing songs" statements by Mike kind of weird? Its not like Brian is that helpless and manipulated by other people to stay away from Mike.

If he doesn't want to write songs with Mike, so be it.

It could sound weird if you didn't consider that Brian keeps telling Mike that he wants to get with him and write some songs.

[Cam Mott]

We'll be watching closely to see what kind of hit single Mike can conjure up next for that kind of sustained, top-10, three-month-long success he said they didn't deliver in 2012.

At the same time I'll be holding onto my Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes ticket waiting for them to ring my doorbell with balloons, camera crews, and a giant oversized check in my name. 

Just like your PCH sweepstakes ticket it might happen someday if he can conjure together with Brian without distraction like he hopes.

[guitarfool2002]

Define distraction. 

Seriously though, after going through those old articles describing the events of the mid-90's BB's activities in the studio, it was interesting to read the comments from Don Was who said Brian wished to write with Mike and when Mike was approached he wanted to write with Brian, but at that time the lawsuit issues got in the way. Then when they finally did get together and work on some songs, they eventually had what seemed to be a pretty hefty catalog of tunes, according to Brian and Was.

Now fast forward to 2013 and we see Don Was again in the studio with Brian, you have to wonder if anything like the scenario from 1995 would have a chance to develop in any substantial way where some tunes could again develop from a Brian-Mike collaboration. Who knows if any party reached out to another asking to collaborate as happened in the 90's.

Unfortunately though it also feels like Mike is looking for a pure 2-man writing partnership that may not be realistic with the way Brian has been working on original music for the past decade or more. Maybe if Mike were less conditional about it, something new could come out. It feels again like Mike may be stuck too far in the past with his expectations, and could that be an excuse for something else as well? Who knows.

[KittyKat]

Mike is Mike. Why do people think he's not entitled to his opinion or are surprised when he says the type of things people expect him to say and hate him for?

As for Mike not liking the way TWGMTR came together, I can see his point of view, if not completely agree with it. TWGMTR is essentially a Brian Wilson solo album produced by Joe Thomas, as well as extensively co-written by Joe Thomas. Joe also put the Capitol deal together for the album and put together the tour. Joe is Brian's man. The other Beach Boys, not just Mike, had considerably less say than Brian's "camp" in both the album and the C50 tour. I can understand why Mike wouldn't have been crazy about that arrangement. However, that said, it's arguable that without Joe Thomas, there would have been no album recorded or released to begin with, and probably not a tour, either.

I also tend to think Mike is right that Brian doesn't have absolute control of his life or who he records with. He has gatekeepers and probably needs them to some extent. But it's no secret that Brian isn't in full control of his life. Just look at an album such as GIOMH, which was a Brian solo project, but Brian gave interviews at the time that album was released saying he didn't like the track selection and wasn't happy with the album, so presumably he was "persuaded" to do it.

[Cam Mott]

Define distraction. 

Seriously though, after going through those old articles describing the events of the mid-90's BB's activities in the studio, it was interesting to read the comments from Don Was who said Brian wished to write with Mike and when Mike was approached he wanted to write with Brian, but at that time the lawsuit issues got in the way. Then when they finally did get together and work on some songs, they eventually had what seemed to be a pretty hefty catalog of tunes, according to Brian and Was.

Now fast forward to 2013 and we see Don Was again in the studio with Brian, you have to wonder if anything like the scenario from 1995 would have a chance to develop in any substantial way where some tunes could again develop from a Brian-Mike collaboration. Who knows if any party reached out to another asking to collaborate as happened in the 90's.

Unfortunately though it also feels like Mike is looking for a pure 2-man writing partnership that may not be realistic with the way Brian has been working on original music for the past decade or more. Maybe if Mike were less conditional about it, something new could come out. It feels again like Mike may be stuck too far in the past with his expectations, and could that be an excuse for something else as well? Who knows.

By distraction I mean whoever or whatever Mike see as getting in the way of what he feels would work best for he and Brian. It sounds to me too like he would like to sit down with just he and Brian, but maybe he means without somebody in particular, I don't know.

I think Mike has shown he is willing to accomodate Brian. Perhaps if Brian were less conditional about it, because he seems to be setting the conditions. Maybe Brian could quit raising expectations and then not following through. Mike goes along with much less than his ideal conditions and he tolerates a lot of broken promises and let downs from Brian.

[Lonely Summer]

I don't think things have completely changed in Brian's life since the Landy years. He got used to having people to protect him from the outside world, the difference being his "people" today appear to be a much kinder, gentler bunch than Landy's goons. Mike is nostalgic for the Brian he knew in 1965, but that Brian is gone.

[runnersdialzero]

Does anybody else find the "only me and Brian in a room together writing songs" statements by Mike kind of weird? Its not like Brian is that helpless and manipulated by other people to stay away from Mike.

I think he kind of is. I think what Mike wants is very a very simple and rational thing: to hang out with his cousin and write some songs together. No producers, no money, no pressure, no "people", no politics, just some cousins/friends in a room writing some songs. That's how good music is written and always has been. If anyone needs to leave the room, they can. I think people around Brian stand in the way of that, and that kind of sucks.

[Nicko1234]

I think Mike has shown he is willing to accomodate Brian. Perhaps if Brian were less conditional about it, because he seems to be setting the conditions. Maybe Brian could quit raising expectations and then not following through. Mike goes along with much less than his ideal conditions and he tolerates a lot of broken promises and let downs from Brian.

I think that's rather a one-sided way of putting it and I also think that all of those comments should be in the past tense as the C50 tour is now dead.

There weren't any broken promises or let downs from Brian last year I don't think.

There were obviously a lot of conditions last year for the reunion and I think it's fair to say that Mike had to compromise more than Brian probably (Al didn't seem to get much say at all). If Mike had been in charge of the touring then the backing band would probably have consisted of 5 or 6 members in addition to the main Beach Boys which would have made good business sense. Mike has alluded to this in interviews as one of the reasons he was happy enough to go back to touring with Bruce which is understandable.

This just makes it more surprising to me that the C50 tour happened at all.

[SMiLE Brian]

Does anybody else find the "only me and Brian in a room together writing songs" statements by Mike kind of weird? Its not like Brian is that helpless and manipulated by other people to stay away from Mike.

I think he kind of is. I think what Mike wants is very a very simple and rational thing: to hang out with his cousin and write some songs together. No producers, no money, no pressure, no "people", no politics, just some cousins/friends in a room writing some songs. That's how good music is written and always has been. If anyone needs to leave the room, they can. I think people around Brian stand in the way of that, and that kind of sucks.

Its not Brian or his people totally shut Mike out, they let him write lyrics for songs on the album and gave him an executive producer credit. Even in 2006, Brian gave him a backing track to write lyrics to, but Mike rejected it. Writing with Brian, imo, for Mike is controling the creative process. Maybe MIU part 2 if worse comes to worse.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And that quarter of an album rules: I will drunkenly fight anyone who hates on "It's OK", "Had To Phone Ya", "Chapel Of Love"*, "Talk To Me"**, "Pallisades Park"***, "Back Home", and "Just Once In My Life"!

* "Chapel Of Love" is great because Brian sounds like he desperately wants to believe what he's saying but doesn't exactly care enough to sing it. f*** you, it's great.
** "Talk To Me" kinda underwhelms as a song but I love the synth/horn/guitar (?) bit of instrumentation. If nothing else the album is very interesting texturally...
*** I wish this was sped up but it cooks man! Even Carl knows it! You hear that nasty synth/guitar stuff? Hell yeah.

The Beach Boys should've released EPs, I think they would've benefited from both the shorter running time (7 Big Ones EP, oh yes!) and the freedom to do one-off, quick things while working on albums.

"Back Home" is punk as f***. Brian gives no shits. You love it.

And "Sea Cruise" rules too. Why was this left off in favour of shitty songs by Mike and Al? AND WHERE IS THE 'HOT MIX' OF "ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC"

Let's not forget "A Casual Look" ..... Mike and Al get to shine and the croaking Wilson Brothers coda is pure drunken/cigarette wracked gold!

[Nicko1234]

Its not Brian or his people totally shut Mike out, they let him write lyrics for songs on the album and gave him an executive producer credit. Even in 2006, Brian gave him a backing track to write lyrics to, but Mike rejected it. Writing with Brian, imo, for Mike is controling the creative process while writing with Brian. Maybe MIU part 2 if worse comes to worse.

I doubt that very much.

[Cam Mott]

I think Mike has shown he is willing to accomodate Brian. Perhaps if Brian were less conditional about it, because he seems to be setting the conditions. Maybe Brian could quit raising expectations and then not following through. Mike goes along with much less than his ideal conditions and he tolerates a lot of broken promises and let downs from Brian.

I think that's rather a one-sided way of putting it and I also think that all of those comments should be in the past tense as the C50 tour is now dead.

There weren't any broken promises or let downs from Brian last year I don't think.

There were obviously a lot of conditions last year for the reunion and I think it's fair to say that Mike had to compromise more than Brian probably (Al didn't seem to get much say at all). If Mike had been in charge of the touring then the backing band would probably have consisted of 5 or 6 members in addition to the main Beach Boys which would have made good business sense. Mike has alluded to this in interviews as one of the reasons he was happy enough to go back to touring with Bruce which is understandable.

This just makes it more surprising to me that the C50 tour happened at all.

I wasn't limiting it to just last year.