Jan & Dean

[Mark A. Moore]

The only reservation I have about Carnival of Sound is that it includes the song "Only A Boy"...unless that song was meant to be taken ironically.

Nothing stirs more J&D controversy than "Only A Boy" and "The Universal Coward."

"Only A Boy" was used as the first WB single simply because it featured Jan's pre-accident singing voice (and Dean's too, for that matter). WB was counting on the J&D name (and Sadler had recently spent five straight weeks at #1 with a Vietnam song). That's why it was also slated for the album. But there's no question it doesn't fit with the Sunshine-Psych stuff that Jan was doing after the accident. Lyrically, "Only A Boy" is indeed a square peg on Carnival of Sound.

People also have different perceptions. J&D insider and radio guru Roger Christian said the radio execs' take was that "Only A Boy" was actually an ANTI-war song, and they were told not to play it. Think about it. A song that solicits sympathy for a young American soldier killed in Vietnam (and those he left behind). Listeners can take it both ways . . . (And how about the outrage many feel today for the thousands of soldiers who have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Largely unpopular wars, just like Vietnam).

"The Universal Coward" also touches a nerve with people. Some take it very seriously, while others don't. It was a spoof on the anti-war movement, and was included on the same album (Folk 'n Roll) with one of the most famous anti-war anthems of the period, "Eve of Destruction." Anything was fair game for J&D.

I don't think it's about Jan being a Lefty or a Righty. As far as politically-minded listeners are concerned, I think both sides can take something from it.

To me, "Universal Coward" is biting satire. And I'm not a Right Winger (by any stretch of the imagination). Lyrics aside, it features a killer backing track.

As for Carnival of Sound, the album is aptly named. It's a mash-up of different styles, including the old chestnuts Jan had started tinkering with before the accident.

M.

[doc smiley]

 

so the new Jan and Dean CD/DVD set "Hang Fifty".. no one knows anything about it?

wow....

[Mark A. Moore]

so the new Jan and Dean CD/DVD set "Hang Fifty".. no one knows anything about it?

wow....

Like the event itself, it was a one-off thing to benefit the animal shelter (a good cause). Otherwise, not available to the general public.

M.

[doc smiley]

Thanks Mark

now that I know this I can stop looking for it....


Peace

Doc Smiley

[Rocker]

As for Carnival of Sound, the album is aptly named. It's a mash-up of different styles, including the old chestnuts Jan had started tinkering with before the accident.

That's great ! jan's before-accident "Lousiana man" (with a killer leadvocal from Dean) is absolutely fascinating !! Much better than the COS-version imho

[adamghost]

Mark, I got a great wonky question for ya...

I've heard conflicting reports on whether Dean was involved at all with Jan's post-accident sessions in the '60s.  The prevailing view is that he had no involvement whatsoever, but I've seen at least one source that said that he at least showed up to one vocal session.

Here's why I ask...I could swear I hear Dean's voice on "Laurel and Hardy" (of course I swore I heard Dennis' voice on Kenny Loggins' "I'm Alright" and it turned out to be Eddie Money), there's a high pitched kind of a "wha!" on the bridge section that is so unmistakably him.  Now, I asked this question in GOLDMINE when I was a young buck about 1990, and Dean's aide at the time forwarded it to Dean who actually personally answered the questions and he personally denied it then, but I've since learned not to totally trust peoples' recollections about such things.

What's your take then, Mark...Dean on "Laurel and Hardy," or no way?

[Mark A. Moore]

Mark, I got a great wonky question for ya...

I've heard conflicting reports on whether Dean was involved at all with Jan's post-accident sessions in the '60s.  The prevailing view is that he had no involvement whatsoever, but I've seen at least one source that said that he at least showed up to one vocal session.

Here's why I ask...I could swear I hear Dean's voice on "Laurel and Hardy" (of course I swore I heard Dennis' voice on Kenny Loggins' "I'm Alright" and it turned out to be Eddie Money), there's a high pitched kind of a "wha!" on the bridge section that is so unmistakably him.  Now, I asked this question in GOLDMINE when I was a young buck about 1990, and Dean's aide at the time forwarded it to Dean who actually personally answered the questions and he personally denied it then, but I've since learned not to totally trust peoples' recollections about such things.

What's your take then, Mark...Dean on "Laurel and Hardy," or no way?

Adam,

I hear the part you're talking about. I've been listening a lot to the original source tapes (for the forthcoming release), which obviously are a lot clearer than what most people have heard. There's a similar part on "Mulholland," aside from the female harmony line.

To my ear, I don't hear anything that stands out as being distinctly Dean.

But it's certainly possible that Dean made a cameo appearance somewhere on the album (aside from "Only A Boy," which he's definitely on). "Laurel & Hardy" or otherwise. I wouldn't rule that out at all. I can document the other vocalists on the album, but it's still not unrealistic that Dean might have contributed to a session.

Early on, I used to listen to "Love & Hate" and think that it was a good candidtate for Dean being part of the harmony mix. But the "Jan & Dean Label" cuts turned out to be among the best documented Carnival tracks. I have the AFTRA vocal contracts, and Dean isn't there.

I also used to think that Dean might have been part of the spoken parts at the end of "Mulholland." But having heard the source tapes, that's pretty much ruled out. But Jan IS part of that, and it's extended from what people have heard, and funny as hell.

People will be surprised at how well Jan spoke in the two years after the accident. It got worse from there.

Bottom line, it's not out of the question that Dean may have made a post-accident vocal cameo on Carnival.

M.

[Ed Roach]

People will be surprised at how well Jan spoke in the two years after the accident. It got worse from there.

Interesting to hear you say that, Mark.  I wrote something in this thread the other day, mentioning what a different Jan I saw he was when hanging out with Dennis away from the concerts, during the tours  J&D did with The Boys in the mid-seventies.  Haven't posted it yet, because there's a photo that's part of the story, and I had a problem uploading;  (but I'll get it up soon.)
Part of my story, though, is about first really 'bonding' with Jan when, quite by accident, we both attended an est postgraduate class - you know, the Erhard Seminar Trainings, with Werner Erhard, from way back in the early seventies.  I wasn't aware Jan, who was sitting way behind me, was even in the room until he got up to 'share'.  As soon as I heard his faltering speech, I knew who was speaking, without even turning around...  He was actually telling his story, about his success & accident, (without mentioning how B-I-G he had once been), then focusing on his long, difficult road of recovery.
Thing is, the more comfortable he became, the less hesitant his speech was.  He even sang a little a capella version of a song he was currently working on!  And I witnessed the same thing when he was with Dennis & I, away from the crowds, shooting the breeze.  It seemed the more comfortable he became, the easier it was to be himself, and speak in an almost 'normal' way.  I guess that wasn't possible for him later on though...

[Rocker]

Ed, thank you for that post ! It's interesting because I've never heard much about what a relationship Dennis and Jan had. It's known (well, I'd read it somewhere) that in the 60s Dennis and Dean did alot of racing and of course Dean did the shots for POB, but as I said, I never herad anything about Dennis and Jan (except one thing that includes a autographed single by J&D, Dennis and Elvis, which a fan let them sign on one of Elvis' famous football-games, but of course that could be a fake)

[Mark A. Moore]

People will be surprised at how well Jan spoke in the two years after the accident. It got worse from there.

Interesting to hear you say that, Mark.  I wrote something in this thread the other day, mentioning what a different Jan I saw he was when hanging out with Dennis away from the concerts, during the tours  J&D did with The Boys in the mid-seventies.  Haven't posted it yet, because there's a photo that's part of the story, and I had a problem uploading;  (but I'll get it up soon.)
Part of my story, though, is about first really 'bonding' with Jan when, quite by accident, we both attended an est postgraduate class - you know, the Erhard Seminar Trainings, with Werner Erhard, from way back in the early seventies.  I wasn't aware Jan, who was sitting way behind me, was even in the room until he got up to 'share'.  As soon as I heard his faltering speech, I knew who was speaking, without even turning around...  He was actually telling his story, about his success & accident, (without mentioning how B-I-G he had once been), then focusing on his long, difficult road of recovery.
Thing is, the more comfortable he became, the less hesitant his speech was.  He even sang a little a capella version of a song he was currently working on!  And I witnessed the same thing when he was with Dennis & I, away from the crowds, shooting the breeze.  It seemed the more comfortable he became, the easier it was to be himself, and speak in an almost 'normal' way.  I guess that wasn't possible for him later on though...

Ed,

Good insight. When we worked on the A&E Bio in '04, we arranged for there to be minimal people present for Jan's interview, so he'd be more comfortable. Instead, they jammed the room with production staff, and it tripped him up significantly.

As for Dennis and Jan, I interviewed a lady (Denise) who witnessed the dynamic between Dennis and Jan in 1965. Pretty good stuff.

M.

[Rocker]

As for Dennis and Jan, I interviewed a lady (Denise) who witnessed the dynamic between Dennis and Jan is 1965. Pretty good stuff.

Anything you could tell us?

[Jeff]

Popsicle is just a perfect pop song.  Recorded in '63, released on an album, then released again as a single in '66, and was a hit.  Very, very few songs could have transcended that time period, which in terms of social and musical change, was an eon.  But Popsicle is so, so catchy, and can probably mean a lot of different things to different people.

"Some people buy popsicles just for kicks
But me and my baby we save the sticks
To keep brother and sister quiet as a mouse
We give them popsicle sticks to build a popsicle house"

Just can't beat that.

[Rocker]

Popsicle is just a perfect pop song. 

I agree very much ! It has dumb lyrics, a simple and fun melody and a fantastic production with a great beat. Very hypnotizing imo

[shelter]

"The Universal Coward" also touches a nerve with people. Some take it very seriously, while others don't. It was a spoof on the anti-war movement, and was included on the same album (Folk 'n Roll) with one of the most famous anti-war anthems of the period, "Eve of Destruction." Anything was fair game for J&D.

Because I read that Dean "boycotted" the song, I always assumed that Jan was dead serious there. For that reason, I've always hated that song with a passion.

[SG7]

"The Universal Coward" also touches a nerve with people. Some take it very seriously, while others don't. It was a spoof on the anti-war movement, and was included on the same album (Folk 'n Roll) with one of the most famous anti-war anthems of the period, "Eve of Destruction." Anything was fair game for J&D.

Because I read that Dean "boycotted" the song, I always assumed that Jan was dead serious there. For that reason, I've always hated that song with a passion.

He also boycotted "Beginning of an End" too I believe (and I also believe "You Really Know How to Hurt a Guy")

[Mark A. Moore]

"The Universal Coward" also touches a nerve with people. Some take it very seriously, while others don't. It was a spoof on the anti-war movement, and was included on the same album (Folk 'n Roll) with one of the most famous anti-war anthems of the period, "Eve of Destruction." Anything was fair game for J&D.

Because I read that Dean "boycotted" the song, I always assumed that Jan was dead serious there. For that reason, I've always hated that song with a passion.

Jan & Dean's personal relationship and problems weren't rooted in politics. And Dean is currently a Republican who lives in Right Wing Orange County . . . a Republican enclave in Blue-state California.

Dean didn't sing on "I Can't Wait To Love You" either, a nice track that was also on Jan's single and on J&D's Folk 'n Roll album in '65.

[Mark A. Moore]

"The Universal Coward" also touches a nerve with people. Some take it very seriously, while others don't. It was a spoof on the anti-war movement, and was included on the same album (Folk 'n Roll) with one of the most famous anti-war anthems of the period, "Eve of Destruction." Anything was fair game for J&D.

Because I read that Dean "boycotted" the song, I always assumed that Jan was dead serious there. For that reason, I've always hated that song with a passion.

He also boycotted "Beginning of an End" too I believe (and I also believe "You Really Know How to Hurt a Guy")

No, Dean didn't boycott "A Beginning from An End." Dean does in fact sing on that record. He just didn't like the song. Lyrically, the song is way too melodramatic . . . but again, with a fantastic backing track. It bubbled under at #109 on Billboard [slightly higher than Dean's later "Yellow Balloon" (#111)].

"You Really Know How To Hurt a Guy" was a Top 30 hit in 1965 . . . #27 on Billboard.

M.

[SG7]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up Mark!

[TdHabib]

Jan & Dean's personal relationship and problems weren't rooted in politics. And Dean is currently a Republican who lives in Right Wing Orange County . . . a Republican enclave in Blue-state California.

Aha, so that's why Mike likes him so much!

[Rocker]

Really enjoyed The Complete Liberty Singles compilation, which certainly is among my most-played records of recent years.

Same here. Everyone should get this CD as it's the only place right now where you can hear Jan's original mono-mixes. I was very surprised at how different and (in all cases) better they do sound. The backgroundvocals on the stereoversions of "The little old lady from Pasadena", "The Anaheim,..." and "Batman" always soundedn kinda thin and a little uncontrolled to me, but the monomixes have the bass-vocals up (they are not very good to hear on the stereomixes) and it all comes togetehr fitting like a glove. Totally great !! Plus the instrumental tracks have alot more power too.


Something that I asked myself the last weeks:
Do you guys think that "George fell into his french horn" (the part were the instruments are actually playing) was in any way inspired or maybe an advanced version of what Jan did on "Dead man's curve" 's citation on "Pop symphony"?

[Alex]

Jan & Dean's personal relationship and problems weren't rooted in politics. And Dean is currently a Republican who lives in Right Wing Orange County . . . a Republican enclave in Blue-state California.

Aha, so that's why Mike likes him so much!

I wonder if Dean was ever considered as a possible guest star on "The O.C", living in Orange County and all.

[shelter]

Jan & Dean's personal relationship and problems weren't rooted in politics. And Dean is currently a Republican who lives in Right Wing Orange County . . . a Republican enclave in Blue-state California.

And he's twisted into thinking that fighting is all wrong

He runs from Uncle Sam, and he runs from Vietnam
But most of all he's running from himself

Oh, he just can't get it through his thick skull
Why the mighty USA
Has got to be a watchdog of the world

IMO, these lyrics are so... well, politically incorrect, to say the least... that I think that even most right-wing Republicans will agree that they're probably not very appropriate for a commercial music act.

[Aegir]

I think they work as a joke.

[Rocker]

I also used to think that Dean might have been part of the spoken parts at the end of "Mulholland." But having heard the source tapes, that's pretty much ruled out. But Jan IS part of that, and it's extended from what people have heard, and funny as hell.

That's funny. I always thought that "wait a second baby" sounded alot like Jan


EDIT:
BTW found this pic of J&D and Dennis on the official Jan Berry-site. Shot by Ed Roach:

[Jeff]

Jan & Dean's personal relationship and problems weren't rooted in politics. And Dean is currently a Republican who lives in Right Wing Orange County . . . a Republican enclave in Blue-state California.

Aha, so that's why Mike likes him so much!

In a perfect world, the Beach Boys would have traded Mike and a performer to be named later (Bruce) for Jan in '62 or '63.  Jan would have been working away on Good Vibrations in April 1966, thereby avoiding his car crash.  Jan's compositional and production talents would have taken some of the pressure off Brian, allowing Smile to be completed and released.  And Mike, Dean and Bruce would have put together an entire album of songs about how cool the kids in Utah are, including Tears for Taylorsville and Provo Is the (Nearest Faraway) Place.