Brian has been placed in a conservatorship (likely suffering from dementia)

[18thofMay]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/04/21/beach-boys-tour-2024-phoenix/73375362007/

A Mike Love interview with a mention of Brian here

[Toursiveu]

I saw a great picture of Blondie visiting Brian at home yesterday on Blondie's FB page.
Glad to see that those guys are still friends and that Blondie's still visiting.

[Zenobi]

Blondie is a great guy.

[HeyJude]

Not trying to start a Mike thread here, truly, but that article was interesting in that it's fascinating that Mike is still so sour, in fact seemingly *more* sour, on the "That's Why God Made the Radio" album now. I get his gripes, and I don't even disagree with all of them. It would have probably done the project a bit of long-term good to have just placated Mike and had he and Brian write a few tunes "from scratch."

But it's strange to have that specific perspective on that album. It clearly was made the way it was in large part because they didn't have a ton of time to finish it. And it's not as if there aren't other Beach Boys albums with *even fewer* Brian/Mike from-scratch collabs.

It almost feels like Mike is less perturbed that the album ended up with less Brian/Mike from-scratch co-writes, and more upset specifically that he feels like he was promised or strongly led to believe, at some point I guess, that the album would be focused around Brian/Mike co-writes. It's peculiar, because it sure seems like by the time they actual got the record deal, it was clear Capitol was signing them based on the bag of Brian/Joe songs, and also that given the amount of time they had to actually record the album, they would have to use those pre-existing songs as the basis for most of the album.

Again, not trying to inflame or stir the pot. I genuinely find this stuff fascinating, especially in light of things on a number of other fronts being relatively cooled off and amiable between the group members, and in terms of their feelings on individual subjects.

[guitarfool2002]

Credit to Mike, he's a professional at these promotional interviews, he sticks to the script most of the time and delivers the same answers consistently. It's not a criticism, but that interview posted above is like a carbon copy of interviews he was giving to promote his shows in 2014, 2015, 2016, and onward. He has his techniques down pat. In fact if someone wanted to, unless the links are dead by now, they could reference interviews from the 2014-2018 period and beyond and compare them, and a lot of it would be similar if not a carbon copy. Like I said, he's a pro at these press calls and has the lines down pat.

[rab2591]

Yeah I didn’t want to comment, but it’s just crazy to me that at this late in the game he can’t let it go. I completely concede that I’m in the nosebleed section looking down at the situation, but I just can’t believe that Mike is still flummoxed that he wasn’t allowed alone in a room with Brian: Given the context of the plethora of lawsuits that happened relatively recently to this time, if I were Brian’s lawyer(s) I’d be making damn sure that Brian wasn’t alone with the guy who sued him multiple times for millions of dollars. And if I were Mike Love I’d think I’d understand why I wasn’t allowed near the guy I had just sued multiple times.

It is also perplexing that the guy can’t see one good thing in anything Brian has done without him in the last 40 years. He crapped all over Brian’s first solo album, he is still making sure people know he dislikes TWGMTR, his only comment on NPP was that ridiculous autotune comment. Not to mention his diatribes about Brian’s weight and prescription drug regimens. I feel like he’d get a lot more respect/admiration if he didn’t whine about this stuff and instead just let it go.

[Sam_BFC]

Well here he is giving a direct answer to a specific question so it would be dishonest not to share his true feelings about the period, though it would be nice to also see him recall the more positive experience he reported nearer the time of it feeling like 1965 again in the studio when they were playing back the new material.

As for him being allowed near the guy that he had sued multiple times, that was of course a choice for Brian and his team to make, but if so they shouldn't have misled Mike to believe otherwise, if that was the case.

[HeyJude]

As for him being allowed near the guy that he had sued multiple times, that was of course a choice for Brian and his team to make, but if so they shouldn't have misled Mike to believe otherwise, if that was the case.

And I think that's the rub, because from everything I've been able to gather, while there were initial discussions far earlier that maybe they’d record an album of oldies, once Mike entered into the actual reunion project, the parameters and plan were most likely pretty set. Brian and Joe Thomas had secured a new album deal based on songs Brian and Joe had written. They had X amount of time to both finish writing and finish recording the album, while also rehearsing for and then conducting a world tour. I don’t know, maybe much *later* in the process, after they had begun work proper on the reunion, somebody told Mike they would set aside time to write with Brian.

There’s also the possibility that what they ended up doing, namely handing Mike partially completed Brian/Joe songs, and having Mike add to or finish them off, constituted “collaboration” for some people. Mike’s got writing credits on four of the twelve songs.

Ironically, what almost surely would have allowed for more “from scratch” songwriting from Brian and Mike together would have been to not ditch the reunion so early. Had they regrouped for 2013, they could have continued doing more reunion tour legs while taking more time to do a *second* album where it would be more Brian/Mike material.

Imagine if things had gone just as they did, with Mike initially quitting the reunion and going back to his own thing, and then they had talked Mike into coming back and continuing the reunion by offering to allow for some substantial time for he and Brian to at least attempt to write some songs together. To be clear, I think the ship had already sailed on all of that. But it would be interesting to know if, either at that late juncture, or more so even earlier in the reunion project, things might have been different if they had essentially placated Mike and allowed for some “alone in a room” collabs. Especially when, even in that scenario, it probably would have still consisted of Brian *bringing in* partially completed song ideas.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the scenario lies somewhere in the middle of all this, as is often the case. Don't leave out the label's influence on the timeline when considering all of this, and how being presented with a handful of songs that needed touch-up work versus ground-up construction was probably a safer bet than agreeing to a scenario where a full album of newly written songs by two men who had not written together successfully in years had to be finished before any other planning would piggyback on the album's release date.

Simplistic terms: What ended up happening was Brian and Joe had songs to choose from, the writing process was mostly done and some if not most had frameworks of arrangements with demos to reference. Getting Brian and Mike in a room to crank out even a half-dozen new songs from scratch and then having them be good enough to release as a "reunion album" with a lot of hype and a major tour planned? Risky is the word I'd use, and corporate labels don't like risk of that sort considering they had been burned quite often by The Beach Boys since the 80's in terms of presenting releasable, marketable new material even when they were "hot" in 1989.

And timelines can change plans in the world of business, simple fact. If Mike's original notions of writing this stuff with Brian alone in a room from scratch didn't materialize,  that's how business works. And as has been mentioned, the teaser for this if I recall was a new version and revamp of Do It Again...going with the oldies concept...which also got scrapped and probably thankfully so.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Isn't It Time is one of my favorite TWGMTR songs, and I seem to remember it somewhat oddly went through some rewriting & lyric changes between the album version and the single version. (On the bridge, "we raise a glass to kindness" became "another day's behind us", etc.) Did Mike have a hand in that?

[Rocker]

FWIW I seem to remember an insider's tweet (or whatever social media platform was used) back then saying that Brian and Mike would meet in the studio later that day to write a song. Couple of hours later the same person wrote it "didn't go well" or something to that effect. That's what I remember. It's possible that I am missing something so please correct me if I'm wrong.


Otherwise (I mentioned it before) the problem I see is that Mike just has to come up with better things than "spring vacation, good vbration", "We'll find a place in the sun where everyone can have fun [fun fun]" or those forced sounding ones like "we raise a kind to kindness" from the single version of "Isn't it Time". If that is what you bring to the table or what you come up with when they give you a chance to show what they would be missing out on, than that's not good advertising. He had a very nice song with "Daybreak" - although I'd wish they re-recorded it with only the Beach Boys - that had a reasonable good lyric.
In retrospect, and this is not only regarding the TWGMTR time, I think Mike's strength does indeed lie more with hooks than actual full lyrics. Listen to that great "bring back my baby" hook from "Daybreak". Or that cool bass line of "Isn't it Time" that he came up with as I understand.

[HeyJude]

Isn't It Time is one of my favorite TWGMTR songs, and I seem to remember it somewhat oddly went through some rewriting & lyric changes between the album version and the single version. (On the bridge, "we raise a glass to kindness" became "another day's behind us", etc.) Did Mike have a hand in that?

Mike is a credited co-writer on both versions of "Isn't It Time", so I'm not sure if he made those later changes for the single version, or if it was by committee. The recording of that version seemed to be hasty; I recall seeing pictures of Al in the middle of the tour recording his new vocals like in a hotel room or something like that.

[HeyJude]

I have also long suspected that something changed pretty late in the reunion project concerning Mike's feelings about Joe Thomas specifically. Even *during* the tour, he was praising Joe. Then later on he seemed to develop a negative impression of the whole project, and I think when he says he didn't get to write alone with Brian, what he's maybe actually trying to say is that he was perturbed that Brian and Joe wrote most of the album. And I think maybe something soured Mike on Joe later in the tour, and that only made his negative feelings about the album stronger.

I recall at some sort of book reading/signing for his book a few years later, someone reported he implied some negative things about someone that seemingly only could have been Joe Thomas.

Keep in mind of course that Joe Thomas was a partner with Mike and Brian in "50 Big Ones Productions" that ran the whole tour. Thomas was deeply intertwined into the creative and business aspect of the album, and in the business aspect of the tour (and subsequent products that came from it, namely a live double album and two DVDs/Blu-rays).

[rab2591]

IIRC I think Mike was publicly mocking Joe for his (supposed) fear of air travel.

[HeyJude]

IIRC I think Mike was publicly mocking Joe for his (supposed) fear of air travel.

I recall Mike mentioning it, but I don't recall him mocking it, but rather expressing some level of frustration or exasperation about it. Whether that was justified or not is of course up for debate I suppose.

[rab2591]

IIRC I think Mike was publicly mocking Joe for his (supposed) fear of air travel.

I recall Mike mentioning it, but I don't recall him mocking it, but rather expressing some level of frustration or exasperation about it. Whether that was justified or not is of course up for debate I suppose.

Yeah my memory is rather hazy on it. At the time I remember thinking it was rather uncool to air that kind of laundry so publicly, which is probably why I relate it to mocking. But yeah I can’t remember exactly what he said.

[Sam_BFC]

I had always assumed that "raise a glass to kindness" was a Joe Thomas line, loosely grouped with:
- "through the consequence of the wine"
- "summer wine, our favorite time"

And possibly one or two others.

[southbay]

I have always been curious about Mike's  penchant for writing "in the same room" with Brian.  I mean know they have done that in the past (The Warmth of the Sun comes to mind), but just once I would like one of these interviewers to ask Mike why that stipulation is so important to him.  Some of their greatest songs were in fact written the exact way that Mike now apparently despises.  Mike's  legendary tales of dictating the lyrics to Good Vibrations to his wife while driving to the studio and writing the lyrics to California Girls outside the recording studio being two examples.  If that worked so well on those classics, why is it so offensive now?

[guitarfool2002]

I have always been curious about Mike's  penchant for writing "in the same room" with Brian.  I mean know they have done that in the past (The Warmth of the Sun comes to mind), but just once I would like one of these interviewers to ask Mike why that stipulation is so important to him.  Some of their greatest songs were in fact written the exact way that Mike now apparently despises.  Mike's  legendary tales of dictating the lyrics to Good Vibrations to his wife while driving to the studio and writing the lyrics to California Girls outside the recording studio being two examples.  If that worked so well on those classics, why is it so offensive now?

It's a psychological if not publicly convenient crutch that Mike has leaned on for decades in many interviews, to set up the imagery of that mythical room with a piano and a notepad where he and cousin Brian could write songs like they did in the old days. It allows a lot of the reality of various situations through the years to morph into a mythical place where everything would be OK if only they could get into that room alone and write. It's been discussed among some of us fans for years, and it's a bit melancholy and sad to think how much weight might be put onto that scenario by Mike, but it also puts the reality of the situation front and center, where if Brian wanted to write with Mike he would have done so. Contrary to some mythology, including from Mike himself, there was no one or nothing stopping the two men from writing together for the past 25 years. Pick up the phone and call, then the answer is either yes or no.

[Pretty Funky]

I’m paraphrasing here, but Brian was pretty adamant in ‘his book’, not the Landy one, that he just didn’t want to be ‘in a room’ writing songs the way he used to. It was not how he wrote songs nowadays. I think that went for anybody, not just Mike.
I don’t have my copy close by but someone can find the section I’m sure. It’s the 2011-2012 timeline from memory.

[rab2591]

FWIW I seem to remember an insider's tweet (or whatever social media platform was used) back then saying that Brian and Mike would meet in the studio later that day to write a song. Couple of hours later the same person wrote it "didn't go well" or something to that effect. That's what I remember. It's possible that I am missing something so please correct me if I'm wrong.


Otherwise (I mentioned it before) the problem I see is that Mike just has to come up with better things than "spring vacation, good vbration", "We'll find a place in the sun where everyone can have fun [fun fun]" or those forced sounding ones like "we raise a kind to kindness" from the single version of "Isn't it Time". If that is what you bring to the table or what you come up with when they give you a chance to show what they would be missing out on, than that's not good advertising. He had a very nice song with "Daybreak" - although I'd wish they re-recorded it with only the Beach Boys - that had a reasonable good lyric.
In retrospect, and this is not only regarding the TWGMTR time, I think Mike's strength does indeed lie more with hooks than actual full lyrics. Listen to that great "bring back my baby" hook from "Daybreak". Or that cool bass line of "Isn't it Time" that he came up with as I understand.

This is what kinda irks me about his answer to the question about TWGMTR: instead of focussing on the positive and getting people interested in the album to help sell a couple more records, he instead focuses solely on his complaints. It was their highest charting album since 1965 (and yes to anyone with a bone to pick about this statement I'm well aware that the chart placement process has changed since 1965, not the point it's just a neat factoid about the album that creates buzz) and ‘Daybreak' is a really good song (seriously this song is amazing with headphones and the harmonies are incredible) and one that Mike should be proud of, so why not say something positive about that?

He starts off answering the question with "Well, I don't know what to say about that in a positive way" as if TWGMTR wasn't their highest debuting album of their career, or as if it wasn't incredible that a new era of fans got to hear some great new songs and Mike vocals? I'm not saying he can't complain, but his answer is so disingenuous to the fundamental reality of the album/situation - if those are his true feelings he really needs to do some TM/Introspection on why he can’t see anything positive in how that album turned out.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

This is what kinda irks me about his answer to the question about TWGMTR: instead of focussing on the positive and getting people interested in the album to help sell a couple more records, he instead focuses solely on his complaints. It was their highest charting album since 1965 (and yes to anyone with a bone to pick about this statement I'm well aware that the chart placement process has changed since 1965, not the point it's just a neat factoid about the album that creates buzz) and ‘Daybreak' is a really good song (seriously this song is amazing with headphones and the harmonies are incredible) and one that Mike should be proud of, so why not say something positive about that?

He starts off answering the question with "Well, I don't know what to say about that in a positive way" as if TWGMTR wasn't their highest debuting album of their career, or as if it wasn't incredible that a new era of fans got to hear some great new songs and Mike vocals? I'm not saying he can't complain, but his answer is so disingenuous to the fundamental reality of the album/situation - if those are his true feelings he really needs to do some TM/Introspection on why he can’t see anything positive in how that album turned out.

Agree with all this for sure. But as we all know, Mike is always going to feel awkward at best looking back at the TWGMTR album and the 2012 tour. From his perspective, he wants to be in charge of the touring Beach Boys and to run them the way he sees fit. Praising a successful Brian-led album and a reunion where he wasn't the star is never going to sit right with him. I obviously agree there are ways to give a more balanced answer.

[rab2591]

This is what kinda irks me about his answer to the question about TWGMTR: instead of focussing on the positive and getting people interested in the album to help sell a couple more records, he instead focuses solely on his complaints. It was their highest charting album since 1965 (and yes to anyone with a bone to pick about this statement I'm well aware that the chart placement process has changed since 1965, not the point it's just a neat factoid about the album that creates buzz) and ‘Daybreak' is a really good song (seriously this song is amazing with headphones and the harmonies are incredible) and one that Mike should be proud of, so why not say something positive about that?

He starts off answering the question with "Well, I don't know what to say about that in a positive way" as if TWGMTR wasn't their highest debuting album of their career, or as if it wasn't incredible that a new era of fans got to hear some great new songs and Mike vocals? I'm not saying he can't complain, but his answer is so disingenuous to the fundamental reality of the album/situation - if those are his true feelings he really needs to do some TM/Introspection on why he can’t see anything positive in how that album turned out.

Agree with all this for sure. But as we all know, Mike is always going to feel awkward at best looking back at the TWGMTR album and the 2012 tour. From his perspective, he wants to be in charge of the touring Beach Boys and to run them the way he sees fit. Praising a successful Brian-led album and a reunion where he wasn't the star is never going to sit right with him. I obviously agree there are ways to give a more balanced answer.

It's honestly a shame he feels that way, because I think if he were more balanced he'd get a little more sympathy or understanding from fans (because he has had some legitimate gripes over the years). But his opinions/outlooks are so negatively direct that they become instantly divisive (for both the people he is talking about and the fandom). But that's Mike, and I've never really expected him to change much.

[Chalk n Numbers]

Just logging in briefly to share a Mike/Brian story – one I haven't shared before, and one that underscores, I think, the point so well made here:

This is what kinda irks me about his answer to the question about TWGMTR: instead of focussing on the positive and getting people interested in the album to help sell a couple more records, he instead focuses solely on his complaints. It was their highest charting album since 1965 (and yes to anyone with a bone to pick about this statement I'm well aware that the chart placement process has changed since 1965, not the point it's just a neat factoid about the album that creates buzz) and ‘Daybreak' is a really good song (seriously this song is amazing with headphones and the harmonies are incredible) and one that Mike should be proud of, so why not say something positive about that?

He starts off answering the question with "Well, I don't know what to say about that in a positive way" as if TWGMTR wasn't their highest debuting album of their career, or as if it wasn't incredible that a new era of fans got to hear some great new songs and Mike vocals? I'm not saying he can't complain, but his answer is so disingenuous to the fundamental reality of the album/situation - if those are his true feelings he really needs to do some TM/Introspection on why he can’t see anything positive in how that album turned out.

Agree with all this for sure. But as we all know, Mike is always going to feel awkward at best looking back at the TWGMTR album and the 2012 tour. From his perspective, he wants to be in charge of the touring Beach Boys and to run them the way he sees fit. Praising a successful Brian-led album and a reunion where he wasn't the star is never going to sit right with him. I obviously agree there are ways to give a more balanced answer.

My wife and I were lucky enough to get meet-&-greet/soundcheck tickets for the reunion tour when it came to our area. I’ll admit that I was a bit shy and tongue-tied when we were ushered over to “meet” the group. My wife, however, had no such problem. She stepped right up, stuck out her hand and said “Hi, Brian.” He shook her hand and said a quiet hello back.

At that point, Mike turned to her – I know this sounds like an over-the-top bit of corny dialog from a movie or TV show – and said “What am I, chopped liver?”

I think back to that moment from time to time. And I imagine that same scene (or one close to it) being played out again and again, in city after city. There it was, in that half-joking response: all that resentment and pettiness, right there on public display. And you can readily imagine those feelings building over time throughout the tour.

I’ll admit to something else: right after the concert – which was terrific – part of me wanted to believe that the Beach Boys were back in business as a dynamic, living band. In retrospect, that meet-&-greet interaction should have told me I was just dreaming.

C&N

[juggler]

At that point, Mike turned to her – I know this sounds like an over-the-top bit of corny dialog from a movie or TV show – and said “What am I, chopped liver?”

My late mother who was approximately the same age as ML used to like the. "What is .... ? Chopped liver?" line, too.  I believe it was popular slang when they came of age in the 1950s.  I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it.  Very often the line is uttered ironically, without malice, in a self-deprecating way  Sure, on some level Mike msy have bee slightly resentful of a situation in which he perceived that a Brian-adulating fan was ignoring him but he was very likely just trying to be funny.