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http://smashinginterviews.com/interviews/musicians/brian-wilson-interview-talks-60s-sound-of-no-pier-pressure-and-why-love-mercy-brought-back-a-lot-of-scary-memories

That was a better interview than I thought we'd get.  Good to know there will be a tour this summer.

Wrote GOK for his girlfriend?

"Do you ever see yourself retiring from music?"
"I don’t really know. Maybe this year. I’m not sure."

If that isn't the saddest thing I've read in a long while. What a shame if it is his last year of music, but if true, No Pier Pressure sounds like it'll be a great way to go out.

Ya.  Absolutely...but not surprisingly.  The two things which stood out for me?

1..Melissa Parker (Smashing Interviews Magazine): What kind of a sense of humor do you have, Brian?

Brian Wilson: The funny kind. I’m kind of funny.

and 2...Melissa Parker (Smashing Interviews Magazine): Do you ever see yourself retiring from music?

Brian Wilson: I don’t really know. Maybe this year. I’m not sure.

"The funny kind".  Priceless. and then "maybe this year".  Makes tickets for the upcoming tour priceless.  It was bound to happen sooner than later.  I thought maybe they MIGHT get back togther  for year 55 but...Melissa Parker (Smashing Interviews Magazine): Do you see yourself getting back together with the Beach Boys in the future?

Brian Wilson: I don’t know at this time.

That isn't exactly promising.  Nothing is impossible but the sands of time are running low.  The hourglass is almost empty. :(  Sad.  But in a happy way.  GREAT new album...what looks to be an honest and accurate movie...and the book.  How can he top that?   Maybe there's just nothing left that Brian wants or needs to do.  
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Anyway...he's making an announcement in just about an hour from now.  Let's see what he has to say. :hat

My favorite Brian-ism of the interview:

"Melissa Parker (Smashing Interviews Magazine): What kind of a sense of humor do you have, Brian?

"Brian Wilson: The funny kind. I’m kind of funny."

That made my day.  No wonder we all love the guy.

True OSD.  At this point surprises are normal.  And...Normal is a surprise. :lol

I doubt that anyone on this Board, nor anyone the Board is about, is capable of "Normal" at this point.  It's over-rated anyway.  Boring.

You and me Debbie...*WE'RE* the "funny kind".  You know...*we're* "kind of funny."  ;)

[You with humour.  Me to look at]

You are too hard on yourself. ;D

No you're not

Now I know what it's like to be Mike. :lol

In this and other other interview on a parallel thread today he would not budge at all about the BB future and made no mention of returning to BB work with Mike. Sole focus of all his answers to anything is his solo work, album, movie. Was NPP to be a BB album? No, I changed my mind says BW. How does this relate to Mike's characterization?

Especially if Brian changed his mind in later 2012 after 'it' all ended.  Kinda looks like that's 'about' when 'it' happened. 

I tried "normal" once. Longest fifteen minutes of my life.

So...You're saying that it WASN'T a success then? ;)

That would be Betsy Winans.  :)

Brian in the Facebook Q&A: "The album has basically been in the making since the end of The Beach Boys 50th Anniversary. I started writing songs for The Beach Boys, but ended up doing a solo album, and I'm really pleased with it. Having all these young, contemporary voices really brought the record to a different level."

So, he started writing songs for a Beach Boys album, but it ended up being a solo album. Exactly as his press release states. No mention of why. No accusations. No blame shifting.  Nothing for anyone to take offense about.

It doesn't matter what The Examiner's or Mike's POV is and it doesn't matter if The Beach Boys were actually discussing or talking about or reviewing contracts on a follow up album. Creatively, Brian was writing songs for The Beach Boys. Things changed. It's now a solo album.

Who?

Really Billy? ??? ?  Betsy.  Come on man!!!  Brian was into enlightenment...and not just in '66 either.  He, in fact, was into 'older' experiences... like Betsy.

She was born in '32, and was she ever pretty
She rode a freight train west, all the way from Detroit city
Betsy's seen more places than I'll ever hope to see
Betsy's been more loyal than any friend could be

With some she traveled fast, with others it was slow
Betsy's seen them all, she'd seen them come and go
She must have had some others before I finally met her
And now that she's all mine, they'd better just forget her
Betsy was a lady and that she will remain
Betsy took some beatings but she never once complained

She had a classic beauty that everyone could see
I was the last to meet her, but she gave her life to me
She may be rusted iron, but to me she's solid gold
And I just can't hold the tears back
'Cause Betsy's growing old  ;)

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8796.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8796.0.html)

Ahh...I forgot all about that. I was gonna ask if she was any relation to CeCe Winans :lol

So folks, if you're gonna fake Brian Wilson letters in order to try to sell them, first check with Andrew to make sure you got your facts right! :-D

My consulting fee for such an enterprise starts at $1000/hour.

Seriously, was that nearly five years ago ? Gosh darn it. Looking over it once again, it would have been a helluva lot quicker to state what was right with the letters.  :-D

It's sad if he does choose to retire. Definitely the end of an era, as far as music history goes. But he's getting on in years, and this year has been huge for him. Especially with the reunion, the last Beach Boys album produced by him, and finally releasing the SMiLE tapes a couple years ago, this new album, movie & book all lends an undeniable sense of finality to his career. What else is there to do? A Love You tour, maybe? Or releasing the Adult/Child and Paley tapes? Recording any new stuff that might come to him? I guess we'll see. Either way, great that he's ending it on his terms and covering so many bases while he still can.

I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to work with the Beach Boys again. He was willing to keep going and he was spurned, unfairly I'd say. Sometimes when you push someone away you don't get another chance, and in any case it sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth. Let Mike stew in his bitterness and go on making great music without having to deal with the drama and compromised vision. That's what NPP is all about.

Yes, that's all true, as you summarize it, but we don't know what made things change. B says it was a BB album but it changed or he changed his mind. M says there was no talk of an album. Just a mess. BW is funny: when asked about working with DM and AJ he says "Dave did not sing on my album," which is sort of beside the point and makes him sound more like his Dad. I thought he would speak in greater detail about the emotional and artistic nature of the 2 collaborative songs. Funny sense of humor, I suppose.

Not that much of a mess. Brian very well could have had plans for a follow-up album without announcing it to the band, especially after what went down at the end of C50. It just went from a group album to a solo release, and that doesn't mean that the songs chosen for NPP had any possibility of being included in a Beach Boys album, but maybe some did have a chance. Who knows, you know? ;)

Right, because they would have to be better than "Pisces Brothers" to make the cut and that's such a high bar to clear.

This ridiculous parsing of "talk" and "discussion" to absolve Mike Love of all blame for there not being a follow-up to "Radio" is almost adorable in it's pigheadedness. Almost.

I'm glad it worked out this way, tho. Less filler!

Completely agree. I try to hold as nuanced a view of Mike as possible, but at the end of the day he's obviously a very insecure and somewhat bitter man. He had the chance of a fresh start with the reunion and blew it. It was his choice to make, I'm sure he had his reasons, but he has to live with it now.

I know I'll get chewed out bu the apologists again for saying so, but the general public can see what's going on clear as day. Brian was probably pretty upset but he moved on and is having a very prolific year. If it is his last, it's a stunning high note to go out on. Mike's doing his usual schtick on the road and writing angry emails trying to convince somebody that he's perfect and in no way responsible for the messy, mood-killing way the reunion ended. And with that, their respective legacies are cemented. Brian's the guy that makes awesome music. Mike's the frontman on the road who creates embarrassing drama.

Brian had many songs ready to go. The Beach Boys album did not have to have every song that's on NPP. No Mike Love songs would be just fine with me. There are very few that I even listen to.

How sad that with Brian talking about possibly retiring, that Mike's actions show how much Mike himself cares if he never shares a stage or works with his cousin again while they are both on this earth. Not too much, it would seem. Because, you know, the mythic "room" thing is far and away more important. Talk about priorities being out of whack.

I just think it's pathetic he won't even admit it was his decision to end it. If he just admitted it and said why he did honestly, I think people would respect him even if they were a bit disappointed. But by trying to play the victim he's just digging his own grave as far as public perception goes. No one but the club kokomoers are buying it.

At the very least, drop the Mr. Positivity act if you're gonna keep bringing up old news and taking cheap shots. It's clear who's the bigger man when one guy dusts off and moves on while the other has to look big by trying to knock him down again.

Mujan refers ( rightly) to Mike looking back : but with his licence, he is kind of stuck with mining the past, making the best of early work. He could have been more "positive" had he coninued to be a recording artiste. Take some risks etc. Write about new, refreshing things....not more surfboards, cars and girls. Such a great pity.

Not certain about my humor...At this point I'm hopeful that I'm funny to look at, it's a step up from depressing.  Aging sucks.

Even in the late 60s/early 70s period he kept writing about the same thing. TM in this case, rather than beaches, but still. The man is not exactly the best songwriter, and he wonders why Brian wanted (and continues to) use outside collaborators? He should feel grateful he got to write as much as he did for TWGMTR, rather than sh!t on it.

We are the only ones who care about it. Even I don't get that wrapped up in it. Me getting worked up over it doesn't fix a damn thing. During C50, most show-goers only got to hear two new songs and that was with a #3 album. So for Mike I doubt new music works for what he presents at his Beach Boys shows.

We are the only ones who care about it. Even I don't get that wrapped up in it. Me getting worked up over it doesn't fix a damn thing. During C50, most show-goers only got to hear two new songs and that was with a #3 album. So for Mike I doubt new music works for what he presents at his Beach Boys shows.
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Of course we're the ones who care about it, because we're the biggest fans, to whom the music means the most to! The fact that there are many less-informed fans who don't care, or who glance at Mike's subterfuge excuses and actually believe them at face value, is largely what allows Mike to get away with what he does. The music of course is so good that it reins supreme and helps some of the more informed fans simply overlook the lameness and hypocrisy. I'd get less wrapped up in it if Mike would just do his crappy ego-driven behavior as he's done for decades, admit to it (or at least just stay quiet about it)... it's when it's coupled with additionally passive-aggressively picking fights with his cousin in the media that I'm Bugged With Ol' Mike Love.

Of course we're the ones who care about it, because we're the biggest fans, to whom the music means the most! And we're not the only ones who care. The vast majority of actions Mike has done post C50 have little by little, bit by bit, further damaged/cemented his reputation for the ages. And I hate to see that happen to a musician in my favorite band. And ironically, the actions mostly seem to be a (very) misguided attempt at damage control, but the opposite effect happens.

The fact that there are nevertheless many less-informed fans who don't care, or who glance at Mike's subterfuge excuses and actually believe them at face value, is largely what allows Mike to get away with what he does.  Kind of like the band being faceless to the country fair crowd. Works great for Mike! The music of course is so good that it reins supreme and helps some of the more informed fans simply overlook the lameness and hypocrisy. And I try to overlook it too, but it gets mighty hard at times like this. And sadly, I fully expect more trash talk about NPP from Mike in the future, too.

I'd get less wrapped up in it if Mike would just do his crappy ego-driven behavior as he's done for decades, admit to it (or at least just stay quiet about it)... it's when it's coupled with additionally passive-aggressively picking fights with his cousin in the media that I'm Bugged With Ol' Mike Love.

I am an informed fan and all this post C50 business isn't worth getting upset over. You guys argue this stuff through pages and pages of posts and it doesn't mean a damn thing. It isn't changing anyone's minds. They have and always will be remembered for mid-60's music, with footnotes for anything after. All the fighting and such just becomes folklore. Public perception is just that, a perception, not necessarily the full truth. I'm with David Marks on this; it's their business, let them deal with it.

I feel you on aging...I remember being one of the younger BW fans on the BB message boards.... 19 years ago. Jeez...time flies like the wind, fruit flies like bananas

I remember the last time someone in the media asked Brian about retiring, to which Brian gave a similar noncommital response, as if the interviewer had surprised him with the question. The media promptly took Brian's response as an immediate announcement of retirement and ran with it.

Brian's next move was reuniting with the Beach Boys for TWGMTTR and the C50 tour. I'm not taking Brian's answer about retiring this time any more seriously than before. Once again, I think he was surprised to be asked the question.

Maybe I’m just used to Brian’s interview responses being all over the place, but I don’t heavily weigh his quick blurb about possibly retiring. I think he sometimes seems to have a penchant for giving a lot of “maybe” answers to questions instead of firm “no” or “I don’t know.”

That’s not even getting into how often people can truly mean it when they say they’ll probably retire soon, only to keep going. I was recently reading old BB interviews, and there’s a Mike interview from around 1993 (one of the surly ones from the 1992-93 timeframe) where he says “Within the next five years I think I'll be doing something else.”

Even that rare Carl interview from 1989 that someone translated here awhile back had Carl correctly predicting that Mike would be the guy left standing in the touring band.

I read the reference to retirement as it depends on how he feels, but that he'll always be doing music as a part of his life.  I think that's just an honest answer.  If you ask me what I'll be doing in 5 years or next year, I couldn't give you a better answer than that.  Can anyone else here provide a definite answer on his/her future?  I can make plans but no guarantees.  I assume it's the same for everyone.

My impression is that Brian thinks of retirement as stopping touring -- which has been the core of his solo career in many ways. I can't imagine he'd ever close the door to studio work, especially if it's a project he feels strongly about. And as for the touring, the writing has been on the wall for that since the turn of the decade or so. He's not a Springsteen or Dylan, and I can't imagine he finds the sporadic greatest hits shows super satisfying.

THANK YOU.  The talk about Mike was such a small insignificant part of the interview, yet that is mainly what is being discussed ONCE, AGAIN. 'Oh mean Mr Mike is a doody head wah wah wah'. For f***'s sake, just stop . Please. Here's something...I have a feeling if I ever met Mike, we'd probably not hit it off that well. Very little in common except environmental concerns. Conversely, I think Brian and I have a lot in common (albeit he's a musical genius, and I'm nowhere near his league).  I have disagreed quite a bit with some of Mike's decisions over the years. That's okay. But quit making it so damn personal. Unless you are in the family, or are around them  24/7, we know jack jiminy fuckall about these human beings that we don't know personally  that some of us are saying extremely shitty things about.  Give it a rest. Confession time..there's a band member (not Mike or Brian) that I do not care for either, and rather strongly. I don't go on and on about it, constantly bring up him being a dick to fans, or dismiss his abilities just because I don't like him.  There's a fine line between honest criticism and an unhealthy obsessive hatred of someone you don't know, and the line hasn't been crossed so much as it's had a giant steaming dump taken on it.

THANK YOU #2. But I guess the hatred will only stop when Brian or Mike passes away.

WHY would you expect it to stop then?

The band has a very complicated history, and with two clear cut camps competing with each other since the 70s. It's understandable people will probably pick one as their "side." With so much ongoing bad blood between the "artistic/progressive/Wilson" and "commercial/formula/Love" camps, tensions sometimes run high. I can't say this enough, I don't hate Mike Love. But I am very critical of a lot of things he's done and said. I think where we differ is I don't feel the need to shy away from being critical. To me, discussion forums mean going over the good and bad. I guess for those of you who've been here longer it's annoying to hear the same back and forth. Understandable. But with newer fans becoming familiar with the story and speaking their piece for the first time, it's inevitable. If Mike or his fans don't like people criticizing him, maybe he should realize how he's coming off and work on himself. But I don't think it's out of line to critique a public figure. Mike, Brian or anyone else.

The thing is it isn't critical discussion. It is fighting with each other. And no matter what side you are on you will never convince the other side of your position. Just read what has been written here. We wind up fighting with each other and taking it personal and our heroes just keep going about their business. Most of all I love them for their music. It is what drew me to them in the first place. I don't know any of them. I don't know what is personal or persona with them. They have complicated relationships with each other and while we may take sharp and divided lines, I'll wager that they do not. They can fight with each other, but in the end they can come together just as quickly. These guys have been together their whole lives or at least most of it. Let's leave them to their own personal relationships.

Some of it devolves into petty squabbling yes. Sometimes there's some interesting dialogue. I started off thinking Mike was an all-out asshole who killed SMiLE and all that until I read some threads here before officially joining. I don't think a few music buffs bickering/speculating is really gonna affect anything between these guys. Mike may take it to heart a bit, but he keeps reacting the same way to it, which is technically insanity...well, what does he expect? Aside from the q&a and occasional posts, I doubt Brian even looks at this place. If he does, I doubt a couple nobodies are gonna make him alter his attitude about Mike or anybody else.

Most people read what Mike has to say, make a determination good or bad, have an opinion and leave at that. We don't. We force our opinions down each other's throats. I have no problem discussing and leaving it at that, not letting it devolve into name calling and fighting because I don't agree with another's opinion. To me it takes all the fun out of being a fan; the reason I come here in the first place.

I don't believe I've ever called anyone names over Mike. I think I've judged all his actions on their own merit. I don't just look at all his actions as "Oh, it's Mike so it must be bad." I can't speak for everyone, but I don't believe I've seen what you're describing on these boards, at least not to the extent you're implying.

Wasn't directed towards you, in my case.

Oh, I know. I just think in general that any Mike/Brian "debating" isn't really personal. Unless I'm missing something

Well, the thing is, as much as it's all about the music, it's also about the people who make it. And those guys give interviews. And, sometimes they say stuff that raises questions and comments. If Mike wants people to quit thinking negative things about him, he needs get a PR guy or he needs to stop giving interviews that fuels those opinions. If Brian doesn't want people to speculate about his plans, he shouldn't comment that he might retire. Public comments elicit public discussion.

The problem is that things can quickly go from opinionated discussion (which is fair game) to accusation throwing (which drags discussion off course). Not by the whole board, but by a handful of people. As a result, the conversation degenerates into a few people taking sides and accusing anyone who has a differing opinion of being "Kokomaoists" or "Brianistas."  It's natural for people to gravitate toward someone they admire. The Beach Boys fandom isn't' any different. I think most board members have preferences, but most of us aren't fighting over them or spending way too much time trying to convert everyone else to our side.

But, it's not unusual on this board.  If I say "I never really liked Bruce's shorts" I'll get 10 people telling me that I'm just too stupid to know the significance of white short shorts to the history of Pet Sounds. It's needlessly confrontational at times.

It's a shame really, that such transcendent music generates so much spite when we discuss it. I don't have to love every member of the band to love the music, but I think I have the right to comment on public statements, whether the comments are positive or negative. Maybe more "Good Vibrations," "Love and Mercy" and "Peace n Love" would  help all around: in the band and in the board.  But, if the band can't take their own advice, I'm not sure we fans will. As long as they fuss with each other and give interviews for us to discuss,  there will always be people taking sides.

But, 20 years from now, it'll all be about the music.

Agreed. Is Club Kokomoers considered name-calling? I honestly just thought that was the term for people in that camp.

All in all, we'd all be better off if we could just admit when the guys in our camp screwed up. I try to do so with Brian but I will admit I'm willing to give him a lot more leeway considering his illness and sensitivity. If Mike is sensitive, he sure as hell doesn't want anyone to think so. And that's really my main criticism with him; that he refuses to expose any faults, vulnerabilities or self-awareness. It makes him look like a jerk. He may well be a sweet, gentle, caring soul. But going off his public statements and actions through the years you would never know it.

Those clear-cut camps have never really been clear-cut. Back in the days when all the members were alive, at various times Brian was pulled between the Carl/Dennis creatives and the Love/Jardine commercials. In more recent times Brian's regarded as the creative, with Al at his side now. Bruce was a strong vocal supporter of Brian but has ended up with Mike. I've never had a definitive handle on who's into what… and stuff like Your Imagination, California Sun, BWPSmile, Stars and Stripes, and more are arguably as shamelessly attempts at commercialism as remaking oldies for NASCAR.

As clear-cut as mud sometimes! :)

Debate is good - it's the reason this forum exists, as is having a view/opinion/whatever and expressing same. Criticism is fine, the moreso when it's justified or at least plausible. What isn't in anyway good is opening almost any given thread to find the same few "posters" grinding out the same old, old, old tune, to the point that you have to seriously consider that they have some greater or larger degree of a corrupted form of Tourettes, or some other behavioural problem.

And here's the rub - outside the confines of this forum, hardly anyone cares, even in the BB cosmos. I was at a friends, using their iPad to check this place out (I know... I know...) and they asked to look at what I was reading. They did so, their face quickly clouding with successive waves of incredulity, amusement, incomprehension and finally something akin to disgust, and handed the pad back to me with the comment "most of these people aren't anyone I'd care to ever meet, some are seriously disturbed... and you're just as bad, but you express it better".

Know something ? I honestly couldn't disagree. In our own way, we're as dysfunctional as the band. Thing is, we don't have the excuse of 50+ years of chequered interpersonal back history to inform our stances.

Oh.




I never let Steph look at this board. I don't want her to know who I mix with online.

Most of what you do is bitch nowadays, insulting the posters you don't like. You've gone as far as to include a blurb about it below your avatar. Its so clear what bothers you, and anytime someone posts something you don't like, you puff up like a toad, take a condescending and superior position, and then blast them with mean words like a small child venting at the other kids on the school yard.

But to say they have Tourette's, because they say things make u mad? That's so low I've lost any of the respect I used to have for you. 

Good heavens! You mean fans can be weird, insular, and talk about things non-fans don't care about? No kidding. That's why we're talking here instead of to AGD's friend or to my landlord.

Maybe he'd really be into Mujan's Smile theories, tho. I'll run some mixes by him and check.

Of course this all can be weird and downright goofy to random citizens. But I bet they write Harry Potter fan fiction, identify with sports teams of barely articulate millionaires, or weave sweaters out of dog hair. People tend to have some ridiculous hobbies and it's pointless to try to shame enthusiasts of anything out of... enthusing.

I'll deal with this crushing blow to my self-esteem as best I can.

OK, over it.  :-D

Ha! I read the first few posts on this thread, came back a day later and it's been reduced to the usual sh*t. Sad.

What's the usual sh*t?

As Billy stated, it was not directed at you. It is a general statement. If you haven't seen it, then I don't know what else to say.

I think we don't have to post everything that passes through our head.

I didn't care about Brian's last 'single/video', if it was by anyone else I'd have stopped listening in the middle of it. Now, DO I REALLY HAVE TO SHOW EVERYBODY HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT, is my opinion so important that I must repeat in every NPP thread how this new track bores me? Every day?

No. I'm sure thare are tracks in NPP that I'll love, and other that I'll like. I can wait for the full release and comment positively on those.

Quote of the week.   :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Well, you're certainly off to a good start.

"Brian Wilson: Good. How are you?"

Obvious swipe at Mike for expecting some sort documentation.

"Brian Wilson: No. No. We just mostly used Al. David didn’t sing on my album. Al did."

Obviously hates Mike and is taking it out on David.

"Brian Wilson: I changed my mind. I thought so, but then I decided to make it a solo album."

Obvious admission that he ended C50 on a selfish whim.

:lol

I'd rather feel superior to those who go on and on and on about how Mike is an asshole. It makes my day.

 :lol

Seriously, to me having a forum means anything and (almost) everything is up for discussion. What's worse, criticizing something someone in the band did or criticizing the people criticizing for the act of criticizing? I don't know the answer, but whatever it is I'm sure neither is that far above the other.

Why does it make him sound like his dad when he mentioned that Dave didn't sing on the album? If he didn't sing on it, why should he say he did?

I do have to say though, it is kinda interesting that Dave apparently hasn't been part of Wilson-land since the Jeff Beck tour. Perhaps Brian and company realized that even though it was nice to have another Beach Boy on hand, he really didn't contribute enough to keep him instead of just another sideman. Whereas in the case of Al and Blondie, you have two real singers who each have their identifiable classics ("Help Me Rhonda" for Al and "Sail on, Sailor" for Blondie) and also can take leads on other songs like "California Saga / California", "Then I Kissed Her', "Cottonfields" and whatever else for Al, and then "Wild Honey" and maybe "Funky Pretty" or "Hold on Dear Brother" for Blondie. Dave on the other hand, the only real lead he could do authentically would be "Summertime Blues." So maybe that's why it wasn't worth it to keep him onboard. Or maybe they just simply aren't working together, for no particular reason.

Maybe Al and Blondie stay close to LA

Dave could do a killer version of Forever, too. His voice isn't bad by any means, it's just that he's more of an awesome guitarist who can sing a bit. It's not a case like Jeff Beck, whose vocal highlight was freakin' Hi Ho Silver Lining :lol

I see Dave is down for M&B gigs through to the beginning of June but perhaps the possibility of continuing throughout the summer is there?

I get it, you guys want me to go on and on about how Brian's last track sucks, so that you can mention the "anti-Brian" crowd whenever the Mike bashing is questioned.

I'm not into that, sorry. But have fun regurgitating whatever bothers you so badly. Freedom of speech, man!

Thing is, that "camp" doesn't really exist. There's a few people here who take any non-criticism of Mike as ill-willed criticism of Brian. They place people who don't think Mike is an all-evil asshole through and through in that "camp" and honestly believe they're all anti-Brian. However, there isn't anybody with that anti-Brian mindset here that I am aware of. The few ones who really ardently defend Mike have never displayed any hate of Brian, just criticised some of Brian's actions or decisions which they feel aren't that great either.

I love the term "Kokomaoists", though. Very witty. :) Who invented that in the first place?

There have been a few antiBrian posters, most notably the now-banned Kitty Kat, but that is not as common.

And then there's people like Pinder and Cam who continuously come to Mike's defense and accuse you of hating if you say anything that isn't 100% positive about him. I once got called out for praising Brian too much while neglecting Mike's talents. So it definitely goes both ways, regardless of what each camp wants to be called, they do exist.

Not referring to your post with the next phrase, Mujan - some postings are definitely pretty camp. ;D

I don't remember ever doing this to anyone let alone you. Please quote your examples and I'll apologize

I feel there are, basically, four camps at work in this particular scenario

Beach Boys fans...

Brian Wilson fans...

Mike Love fans (these three are not, of necessity, in any way incompatible)...

Those who don't know what the f*** they do like (if anything), but know who they hate.

And all 4 camps are here...to attend summer camp. :lol

What I'm seeing is a conflict between wishing there were no "camps" and wishing everyone would just be nice to each other as fellow fans, and getting posts like this which further define and call out whatever "camp" happens to be in the firing line of the moment.

The old saying is you can't have it both ways, so I'd suggest if this issue of different camps among fans here is what troubles some posters, then stop bringing it up and further putting people on the defensive. Or if there are legitimate disagreements and things to point out to debate, then do that case by case as you feel necessary.

To the quotes in bold: May I ask where exactly this has happened on the board? Or who did what is being described?

So the charge is made that posters here are suggesting anyone who does not think Mike is "all-evil" (your words) and does not criticize him enough is "anti-Brian".

If such a charge is made, can you provide specifics and we can address it? Where specifically has this been done?

On the other hand, last week I saw some suggestions that other fans here - however many hundreds there are - were not "fans" of the Beach Boys because they didn't post in a Mike Love best vocal thread, or were something other than fans because they didn't post in other so-called "positive" threads or whatever was the case.

That, I can call out because it's complete nonsense, and I've seen it before and have called it out as nonsense. There are days that go by where I don't post at all because of work and personal scheduling issues, and where I miss some threads (and PM's too) in the process. If one of those is a topic complimentary to a band member, and I happen not to post there, then by the logic I've seen recently (and can cite)...I'm not a real fan?

Again, if something is going to be presented as a point of concern, as was done above, providing some examples would be helpful to move things forward as necessary. If there are no examples, and perhaps it's a perception, then perhaps reconsidering further dividing our crew into "camps" by dividing them by calling out based on perception might be in order too.

Because I can pretty much be 99% almost certain ( ;D) that this situation where people here are being called out for not criticizing Mike as being "anti-Brian" isn't happening on such a scale to call out, if it's happening at all.

So... Just a little question. Does Mike Love being called an asshole bother you as much as Brian Wilson being called an asshole here? If it happens to Brian are you going to interfere and question the poster's motivations? Would you do the same if the subject was Mike Love?

Personally, I don't particularly care which camp you're in (I'm a Beach Boys fan, first and foremost), but why fight with each other? Why is one person's opinion so superior to the other that we have to argue about it? Why can't we respect each other's difference of opinion? Have we forgotten how to interact with each other? Is an opinion that important that we are willing to get down and dirty to make sure that opinion wins out over everyone else's? Have we become that egotistical? I don't understand it, because the whole reason we come here is out of the love we have for the band & music. Even Mike & Brian don't treat each other that badly when they have issues with each other, so why should we.

Let's all hate that hippie, drbeachboy.  ;)

Peace and Love, baby! :)

Mike & Brian were tangled in massively expensive lawsuits for years. I hardly think this level of snark reaches that level of operatic, almost Shakespearean family drama.

I call bullshit. Even during those times they were civil with other. Rarely, have they been derogatory with each other. Even after C50 when Brian was asked if Mike was an asshole, he corrected the interviewer. Just because they fight over business affairs doesn't mean they disrespect each other as people and family.

I think I'd rather be less than civil sporadically on a forum than be reasonably civil throughout years of expensive lawsuits that cost the equivalent of a few houses every few years. Dunno. Could be personal taste. We now return to reasonable debate, already in progress.

Remind me not to sue you any time soon. ;)

That was me. Just a logical counterpart to Brianista.  ;D

Kind of sad that it never took off.

Edit: I can't actually find evidence that I coined it, although I used it a bunch on the board a year or two ago. It may well have been someone else. If so, apologies!

I'll address that directly, even though the "question" being asked already seems to have been answered by the way it was asked.

It's an open forum. People post opinions and they post in ways not everyone would agree with. For me, I simply ignore a lot of it and often consider the sources. That's the blessing and curse of the internet, the fact that anyone can start writing and voicing opinions however they choose. And we have the ultimate choice whether to read, then whether to react. On one prominent social media network, some "friends" see fit to post political content morning, noon, and night...and quite frankly, it becomes obnoxious. So my choice is to either ignore it completely or go one step further and "unsubscribe" so that person's ranting and raving doesn't clog my own page as I'm reading.

That's my choice and I use it where I see fit. I'd never suggest those individuals don't have the option to post what they want, but the choice is ultimately my own, and I can choose to ignore and not reply. Because honestly, I think a decent number of those folks want to argue more than they do talk or discuss.

I'd say a lot of motivation comes from simply wanting to react or wanting to start a major argument rather than having a discussion. In those cases, if it's nothing concrete or nothing relevant, I ignore it. If someone is saying something that isn't true or isn't lining up with what may be known to be true, I'll challenge it with what *I* know is true, or what I feel can be challenged.

So that's my long answer to what felt like a loaded question. What isn't on my radar doesn't bother me personally no matter what the topic might be. If it becomes an issue for the board and between individuals where lines may have been crossed beyond normal disagreements or behavior, then the moderators step in and discuss what to do.

I stand to be corrected, and probably will be, but I can only think of three - the composer credits and Brian's pseudobiography (both settled 1994), and the Mail on Sunday freebie CD, none of which I recall as dragging on for years.

Wasn't that last lawsuit originally more extensive, though?

Knowing our favorite detail-oriented curmudgeon was on the prowl, I should have amended that to include "...and legal threats" because boy, these guys know how to have their people fire off a curt letter back and forth and draw lines, hmm?

It all adds up to some very well-paid lawyers!

You're right, me and you know the answer already. But it was somewhat entertaining to do it.

That is complete bullshit, and I'm calling you out on it directly. So you asked for my opinion only to get my reaction that would be entertaining to you? That's provoking rather than wanting to engage a discussion. You've done this before, if that's how you get your kicks then it's truly sad that you come to this board for those reasons.

Try showing some respect, not just for me but for the board and the other members in general, and if you want a conversation, learn how to have one before asking for one.

This was pathetic but I will consider the source and will react in kind.



Is this the kind of forum everyone here wants? Consider the source.

That's good. Waste board space for the sake of your own lousy entertainment. ::)

Guitarfool is a great mod (and even greater guy), a shame to see not everybody sees it that way.

Here's a question... has Brian ever called Murry an asshole? Or has anyone in the band actually said that (or not corrected an interviewer who said/inferred such)? Maybe Mike said the most strong words against Murry, I seem to recall such - but still nothing that would indicate "asshole" IIRC, because IMO, much like Mike himself, Murry was a figure who did some significant damage to people in his orbit, but still obviously had love in his heart and tried to show it, however misguided the methods may have been. Not comparing Mike to Murry, but only saying that I don't think the BBs (very especially Brian) would say that word about people who are family. They let stuff slide, for better (and usually worse), immeasurably so, because they are related.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Mike was once quoted as saying that he was glad Murry was dead. If so I'm guessing Mike considered Murry an a$$hole and then some.

I don't know about that quote but my memory is Mike has had the harshest words for Murry, the Wilsons less harsh to a little defensive, the others harsh to justified.

By "justified" I mean it seems to me they allow that Murry had to be tough with his rowdy charges and music business types etc..

FYI, Gene Voris (of the SMiLE Production Dept. memos) told me that the Boys came  early in their career for a tour of the plant and he was their guide and he thought they were sort of an unruly barefoot obnoxious bunch of kids. Something like that. I wonder if David was in the group then?

Is anyone taking the low participation so far in the "In Appreciation of Brian" thread as praise of Mike? Or criticism of Brian?

No, neither.

Agreed, SB.  You and I have strong opinions, clearly, but I don't think we're mean-spirited.  GF and the other mods have to address the obnoxious posts most of us growl and pass over like we would someone's shrieking, entirely undisciplined or guided 4-year-old at the airport - well, until he's seated behind you and kicking you all the way to Chicago or somewhere - then it's personal and unbearable.  And sometimes it's tough to know the difference between opinions and humor, and someone's intention of derailing a thread for their own (or someone else's) agenda, or letting their mental illness run aggressively and nastily across the Board behind a pseudonym, or some kind of unproven authority.  Then it's a pattern and that's a little harder to determine.  I've observed all of this in my brief time here.  Not an easy task, being a mod.  My hat's off to them.      

I believe Mike called Murry an asshole, or certainly words to that effect in the same late 80's interview where when asked if he liked Brian's first solo album he replied 'f*** no'.

That is my perception anyway. I don't have enough time to do a search for those postings, but I promise I will PM you when I perceive it being the case next time.

Whether or not Brian, Denny or Carl called Murry an "asshole" matters little.  You gotta KNOW they thought it at the very least.  Not showing up at your own father's funeral says a TON more than just "asshole".  And it was unanimous.  Good for them. :hat

Exactly.

Carl turned up.

Right. Although 1973 was a very complicated time, and Brian + Denny's emotions were very clouded from drug use no doubt. Nevertheless, I believe that the fact that Brian (and Denny) may not have publicly stated as such for Mike, I don't really have a huge amount of doubt that this somehow is evidence meaning they don't (or didn't, up until 1983) similarly feel that word applies to Mike too. And not in a one-time-did-something-bad kind of way, but in a general, overall sense. Just my hunch. Even if a post C50 Brian wouldn't take the bait and get behind an interviewer saying it. Also doesn't mean they couldn't still have some familial love for him though.

My old age is having its way with my memory Andrew.  Woulda sworn he didn't make it.  Not going to debate it with you though...'cause I'd be wrong.  So he went for Audree's sake then?

That's my understanding. I read somewhere that Carl had a major issue with Brian not going, but my memory is a bit hazy

In the David Leaf book, it mentions that Carl told Audree that he was pissed at Brian for going to New York after hearing of Murry's death.

Correct... and Audree told him she understood.

I made a question, which was provoking but in no way in the 'how dare you' area, which can get veeery tiring. There was a chance that you'd disagree with my angle and tell me why, which I'd read and respect. There was another chance that you'd tell me that that's the way things are and this is just a message board, no reason to get all fussed about, at least more than Mike Love himself does. That would be fair game too.

You just danced around what I said and ignored my points altogether. That was entertaining, that's all. Entertainment is very subjective.

Now, your little tantrums I could live without. But I'll try to get some entertainment from them too. I'm a 'half-full glass' kind of guy.  :)

So you consider intentionally trolling to get a rise out of people entertaining? Really?

Don't know why I bothered to even type that... as of this moment Dancing Bear has danced his way into hibernation.

I don't really put a whole lot of stock in anything BW says in any interview.  He doesn't seem to put a whole lot of thought in any of his answers.  No point in taking anything he says to heart.