Was there any evidence "Wind Chimes" was Air?

[Cam Mott]

I'm just quoting Anderle. What he says in the quote I posted, as with Taylor's June '67 comments, support the hypothesis that access to studio time was a factor in the dissolution of the Smile project. And we know that one of the key considerations as regard Brian and Marilyn's new house was the hasty installation of a home recording studio. A 'benchmark' factor? I don't know. Just pointing out that a key witness seems to have viewed it as a contributing aspect - along with the departure of Van Dyke Parks as lyricist.

My reading of Anderle's statement would be that he's referring to the final departure of VDP in March, not to his December or February exits. But it's not made explicit by the text, no.

EDIT: What seems to be the case, at least going from the sessionography, recording dates, etc, is that most of the formal songwriting (at least in terms of lyrics) for Smile occurred between May and December 1966, and Van Dyke's involvement in 1967 mainly related to the single version of H&V ('Cantina', etc). Since the only new lyrics we know of being put to tape in '67 are for H&V (and possibly Vega-Tables), and considering the build-up to VDP's final departure appears to have been fairly drawn-out, I'd further suggest that whether or Anderle is referring to December, February or March, or conflating various exits in the interview, is fairly irrelevant. The data that survives firmly suggests that the great majority of Van Dyke's lyrical input occurred pre-December 1966. It's his leaving before the album was completed that matters, not the date on which he did. Vosse, Anderle and Parks himself all seem to agree on this point.

Doesn't Anderle say something specific like "right around February"?

[The_Holy_Bee]

The last part, yes - Consider when it was the first time Van Dyke left, did work on Smile stop?

Consider this too: Weigh up all of the Smile tracks we know that were in the vault as of the day the Beach Boys left for their long stretch of touring in mid-April 1967.

Many of the instrumental tracks were complete. Someone give a percentage, was it more than half, 75%, or more than that even? I never did the percentages, but i know someone did to compare it to 2004.

What was missing? Vocals. If the group was on tour almost constantly from mid-April into May and for all of May on another continent, what exactly could Brian have been cutting in the studio? The guys who would be adding vocals to the tracks were gone for roughly 6 weeks...in that time, Brian did cut "Love To Say Dada", which has been suggested could have been one of the missing elements to complete that track. Agree or not on that...

But what more could Brian cut if he already had the instrumental tracks in the can waiting for vocals if the band was on tour for 6 weeks?

I added this to my last post as an edit, but will put it here too as it's relevant to what you've written above, GF:

EDIT: What seems to be the case, at least going from the sessionography, recording dates, etc, is that most of the formal songwriting (at least in terms of lyrics) for Smile occurred between May and December 1966, and Van Dyke's involvement in 1967 mainly related to the single version of H&V ('Cantina', etc). Since the only new lyrics we know of being put to tape in '67 are for H&V (and possibly Vega-Tables), and considering the build-up to VDP's final departure appears to have been fairly drawn-out, I'd further suggest that whether or not Anderle is referring to December, February or March, or conflating various exits in the interview, is fairly irrelevant. The data that survives firmly suggests that the great majority of Van Dyke's lyrical input occurred pre-December 1966. It's his leaving before the album was completed that matters, not the date on which he did. Vosse, Anderle and Parks himself all seem to agree on this point.

Re: suspension of work in May 1967. Sure, the boys were away and - as I also said above - I agree it seems that what was missing, largely, were lead vocals for several album tracks. But while I can see that concentrating on those weeks they were on tour leans toward the conclusion that Smile was still happening, just unable to proceed until the voices got back, if you widen the scope out a bit to include Jan, Feb, March and (nominally) June, a very different analysis presents itself. No work took place during that time on nine of the 'more than half, 75%'-finished twelve songs listed on the LP cover, several of which were apparently complete sans lead vocals. Two of those that were worked on are explicitly stated in press clippings as attempts at a single, and the other (the 'Wonderful' remake) apparently for the B-side of the latter.

Which suggests to me that work on Smile as a long player, as it had been originally planned, was effectively suspended by Brian in early 1967. If it was as close to completion as both of us seem to feel it might have been, and mainly what was missing were vocals, then why weren't the 'Cabin Essence' verses, for instance, laid down in January? Or February? Or March? Or April? Concentrating on the weeks the boys were away and not able to record the final leads for a number of those songs, as opposed to the several preceding months where they were and could have done so, seems to be rather missing the wood for the trees.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Doesn't Anderle say something specific like "right around February"?

Correct, though Anderle seems to be referring to the point at which the creative differences between VDP and BW became impossible to ignore, not specifically to Van Dyke's final departure. That could be just a subjective reading on my part, however:

DAVID: Their parting was kind of tragic, in the fact that there were two people who absolutely did not want to separate but they both knew that they had to separate, that they could not work together. 'Cause they were too strong, you know, in their own areas.
PAUL: When, February?
DAVID: Right around February, yeah. Van was getting—his lyric was too sophisticated, and in some areas Brian's music was not sophisticated enough, and so they started clashing on that. PAUL: They missed each other.

[guitarfool2002]

The last part, yes - Consider when it was the first time Van Dyke left, did work on Smile stop?

Consider this too: Weigh up all of the Smile tracks we know that were in the vault as of the day the Beach Boys left for their long stretch of touring in mid-April 1967.

Many of the instrumental tracks were complete. Someone give a percentage, was it more than half, 75%, or more than that even? I never did the percentages, but i know someone did to compare it to 2004.

What was missing? Vocals. If the group was on tour almost constantly from mid-April into May and for all of May on another continent, what exactly could Brian have been cutting in the studio? The guys who would be adding vocals to the tracks were gone for roughly 6 weeks...in that time, Brian did cut "Love To Say Dada", which has been suggested could have been one of the missing elements to complete that track. Agree or not on that...

But what more could Brian cut if he already had the instrumental tracks in the can waiting for vocals if the band was on tour for 6 weeks?

I added this to my last post as an edit, but will put it here too as it's relevant to what you've written above, GF:

EDIT: What seems to be the case, at least going from the sessionography, recording dates, etc, is that most of the formal songwriting (at least in terms of lyrics) for Smile occurred between May and December 1966, and Van Dyke's involvement in 1967 mainly related to the single version of H&V ('Cantina', etc). Since the only new lyrics we know of being put to tape in '67 are for H&V (and possibly Vega-Tables), and considering the build-up to VDP's final departure appears to have been fairly drawn-out, I'd further suggest that whether or Anderle is referring to December, February or March, or conflating various exits in the interview, is fairly irrelevant. The data that survives firmly suggests that the great majority of Van Dyke's lyrical input occurred pre-December 1966. It's his leaving before the album was completed that matters, not the date on which he did. Vosse, Anderle and Parks himself all seem to agree on this point.

Re: suspension of work in May 1967. Sure, the boys were away and - as I also said above - I agree it seems that what was missing, largely, were lead vocals for several album tracks. But while I can see that concentrating on those weeks they were on tour leans toward the conclusion that Smile was still happening, just unable to proceed until the voices got back, if you widen the scope out a bit to include Jan, Feb, March and June, a very different analysis presents itself. No work took place during that time on nine of the 'more than half, 75%' of the twelve songs listed on the LP cover, several of which were apparently complete sans lead vocals. Two of those that were worked on are explicitly stated in press clippings as attempts at a single, and the other ('Wonderful') apparently for the B-side of the latter.

Which suggests to me that work on Smile as a long player, as it had been originally planned, was effectively suspended by Brian in early 1967. If it was as close to completion as both of us seem to feel it might have been, and mainly what was missing were vocals, then why weren't the 'Cabin Essence' verses, for instance, laid down in January? Or February? Or March? Or April? Concentrating on the weeks the boys were away and not able to record the final leads for a number of those songs, as opposed to the several preceding months where they were and could have been, seems to be rather missing the wood for the trees.

I think the basic logistics of the situation are getting obscured by the speculation.

The point is still if we know a majority of the instrumental tracks for the album were recorded and in the can, and what was needed was vocals, at the point the band left for the tour in mid April, what more could Brian have recorded without the group that had to put on their vocals to the existing tracks? Factoring in why didn't Brian track Cabinessence vocals in December or another time is irrelevant too, the point is the instrumental tracks were waiting for vocals and when the band was in town a majority of Smile sessions in 1967 were for vocals.

What instrumental tracks for Smile could Brian have recorded between mid April and June 1967 if most of the instrumental tracks already existed and needed vocals to complete them? The vocalists he needed were on the road for 6 weeks. If the claim is that Brian should have been recording Smile as the band was on the road, what other tracks could he have done during that time? He needed vocals...they were out of town.

[The_Holy_Bee]

I'm not sure quite where we're missing each other, GF, and I also don't think I'm speculating too wildly. We agree on the facts, it's just the interpretation of them that differs.

To put it as concisely as I can: If Brian only needed lead vocals from members of the band recorded to complete several songs in mid-1967, the question for me is not so much why he didn't tape them in May - when, as you point out, he couldn't have - but why he didn't try to record them in the three and a half months prior to that tour. Even if one says that's because the sporadic dates in Jan-Feb focussed on 'Heroes', and in April on 'Veggies', there's all of March in which almost no recording seems to have taken place at all.

And that's even assuming he actually required the other Beach Boys for those vocals. Most backing vox seem to have been completed. Why couldn't Brian have taken the leads - as he, according to Anderle, quite forcefully did in one song at least which had been more-or-less 'promised to Mike' (probably 'Heroes and Villians') - if he wanted to get the tracks finished, and that's all that was missing? On the previous album, Pet Sounds, he had shown no qualms in wiping and re-recording many vocal tracks by the band to get the sound he wanted.

So, again, what this suggests to me is that Brian himself showed little interest in 1967 in completing any of the half dozen (at least) fully tracked and roughly assembled songs from the Capitol track list which had been ready to receive final vocal dubs since December, apart from largely revamped versions of H&V and VT. Or that, even if he did, some external pressures stopped him from doing so. But I really can't see how it can be argued that the absence of the Beach Boys from LA for six weeks in the middle of the year is any kind of positive evidence that Brian was still pursuing his original plans for a completed 'Smile' in May.

[guitarfool2002]

Where we may be missing each others' points is in the citation of quotes to say this or that was a key factor. There is so much being left out, and it's not as simple as saying Van Dyke leaving scuttled the whole thing because as we know now, most of his lyrical contributions had been turned in, there were missing parts here and there but it's not as if he left the majority of his work unfinished and bailed on the project. We can't even pinpoint exactly which of his exits was "the one", because work continued on the album, primarily vocals when the band was in town. Was it a setback that he left? Of course. But, like buying the house, in the bigger picture it looks far more insignificant than other issues, especially from February to June 1967.

We agree the band being out of town so long would hamper the progress if vocals were needed on existing tracks.

How about the lawsuit? Some have suggested pulling Heroes could have been a power play to make Capitol show their hand in the negotiations. Who held the upper hand? The band needed Capitol to release their music, Capitol held the contract but they needed the band to deliver the music and also they got caught with their hand in the band's cookie jar...they couldn't deny it after the books were audited.

Could the negotiations and wrangling between parties with the lawsuit have influenced some of the band's comments to the UK press in May 67, all that about not being rushed, wanting to deliver a worthy product to the fans, etc? Keep in mind, Brian said nearly the same thing to Derek Taylor months earlier, about not being rushed, about wanting to deliver the best product but deliver it when it was felt it was ready, etc.

Again, it's easy to pin certain things on many factors, but there are some key factors that can't be ignored. A major public lawsuit between the band and their label could put a damper on what we'd consider normal activity, recording or releasing material.

Another factor is one no one is hitting (yet)...but one which could possibly have been an issue.

Let's just say, if the way a group has been recording albums and singles since the end of 1965 suddenly changes direction from what was the established and successful template up to that time...and takes a 180 degree turn from recording at Western with Chuck Britz and at Gold Star with session players and full instrumentation then changes to recording in Brian's living room with rented gear and a radio broadcast mixing board capturing the band singing in empty swimming pools and bathrooms set to a Baldwin organ backing and not a full drum kit or horn section in sight....

...we're supposed to believe no one noticed a radical change had occurred? That *this* setup was the same Smile album project Bruce raved about to NME a month earlier?

Something changed, radically, as of June 1967. And, more than the move to a new house and Van Dyke leaving affected the project in March/April.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Further, to re-quote Anderle about this period:

Then there was a hassle between Van and Brian and Van wasn't around. So that meant that Brian was now going to have to finish some of the lyrics himself. Well, how was he gonna put his lyrics in with the lyrics already started by Van Dyke? So he stopped recording for a while. Got completely away from music, saying, it's time to get into films. And we all knew what was happening. So he abandoned the studio. Then, there was the business, Brother Records. He got his head into the business aspects of Brother Records. So that kept him out of ... he had another excuse.

In short: one of the key witnesses explicitly states that around March Brian chose to begin to absent himself from the project. (Anderle appears to be referring to March, here, as 'Van wasn't around' - he had been around, if increasingly infrequently, right through to February. March is also the month in which, indeed, 'he stopped recording for a while.') Not one witness, nor other documentation, suggests that the Beach Boys' touring schedule was any kind of factor in the collapse of Smile, apart from their reaction to the backing tracks they heard in late '66 on their return from the UK.

This doesn't mean, of course, that Brian wasn't trying/planning to complete a version of the record in 1967, I just can't see how any of the data we've been discussing on this thread (apart from Altham's 'twelve tracks in the can', which I discussed at some length in a previous post) particularly emphatically supports that hypothesis. Especially not that a lack of access to the band was any kind of factor.

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, I realise. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point.

[guitarfool2002]

Further, to re-quote Anderle about this period:

Then there was a hassle between Van and Brian and Van wasn't around. So that meant that Brian was now going to have to finish some of the lyrics himself. Well, how was he gonna put his lyrics in with the lyrics already started by Van Dyke? So he stopped recording for a while. Got completely away from music, saying, it's time to get into films. And we all knew what was happening. So he abandoned the studio. Then, there was the business, Brother Records. He got his head into the business aspects of Brother Records. So that kept him out of ... he had another excuse.

In short: one of the key witnesses explicitly states that around March Brian chose to begin to absent himself from the project. (Anderle appears to be referring to March, here, as 'Van wasn't around' - he had been around, if increasingly infrequently, right through to February. March is also the month in which, indeed, 'he stopped recording for a while.') Not one witness, nor other documentation, suggests that the Beach Boys' touring schedule was any kind of factor in the collapse of Smile, apart from their reaction to the backing tracks they heard in late '66 on their return from the UK.

This doesn't mean, of course, that Brian wasn't trying/planning to complete a version of the record in 1967, I just can't see how any of the data we've been discussing on this thread (apart from Altham's 'twelve tracks in the can', which I discussed at some length in a previous post) particularly emphatically supports that hypothesis. Especially not that a lack of access to the band was any kind of factor.

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, I realise. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point.

March is the month when the lawsuit was filed and went public.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Could the negotiations and wrangling between parties with the lawsuit have influenced some of the band's comments to the UK press in May 67, all that about not being rushed, wanting to deliver a worthy product to the fans, etc? Keep in mind, Brian said nearly the same thing to Derek Taylor months earlier, about not being rushed, about wanting to deliver the best product but deliver it when it was felt it was ready, etc.

Again, it's easy to pin certain things on many factors, but there are some key factors that can't be ignored. A major public lawsuit between the band and their label could put a damper on what we'd consider normal activity, recording or releasing material.

Absolutely true. There are so many 'extenuating circumstances', when discussing this period, it's hard to keep them all in mind at once!

[guitarfool2002]

Could the negotiations and wrangling between parties with the lawsuit have influenced some of the band's comments to the UK press in May 67, all that about not being rushed, wanting to deliver a worthy product to the fans, etc? Keep in mind, Brian said nearly the same thing to Derek Taylor months earlier, about not being rushed, about wanting to deliver the best product but deliver it when it was felt it was ready, etc.

Again, it's easy to pin certain things on many factors, but there are some key factors that can't be ignored. A major public lawsuit between the band and their label could put a damper on what we'd consider normal activity, recording or releasing material.

Absolutely true. There are so many 'extenuating circumstances', when discussing this period, it's hard to keep them all in mind at once!

I agree completely!  But it's all worth factoring in, to a point. I think some issues are weighed too heavily in retrospect, while others may be more practical in nature but potentially closer to the core issues at play.

I did say there was one big one that has been dismissed in previous years, but one which in light of the May 67 interview excerpts might be very close to that core...

[The_Holy_Bee]

Let's just say, if the way a group has been recording albums and singles since the end of 1965 suddenly changes direction from what was the established and successful template up to that time...and takes a 180 degree turn from recording at Western with Chuck Britz and at Gold Star with session players and full instrumentation then changes to recording in Brian's living room with rented gear and a radio broadcast mixing board capturing the band singing in empty swimming pools and bathrooms set to a Baldwin organ backing and not a full drum kit or horn section in sight....

...we're supposed to believe no one noticed a radical change had occurred? That *this* setup was the same Smile album project Bruce raved about to NME a month earlier?

Something changed, radically, as of June 1967. And, more than the move to a new house and Van Dyke leaving affected the project in March/April.

Right. 'The project'. I think what I'm saying (EDIT for fear of misrepresenting another poster) is that June marks the beginning of a new project (Smiley Smile), and that the previous project (Smile) effectively ended much earlier on in the year. Whatever Altham may have said in April about the record being almost ready to go can still be true (most of the album does appear to have been tracked and in the can) and at the same time wildly inaccurate, as it would turn out (the material was there, but Brian evidenced little interest or ability to add final vocals and put it together). No one's debating a major shift occurred once the Boys returned from tour in mid-67, and the commencement of the 'home studio' recording era. I'm arguing that the data suggests that work on Smile-as-originally-conceived was drawing to an end six months earlier, and the Jan-April sessions were essentially a transitory period, apparently concentrating on a single release. I may well be wrong here, and my views may change, that's just how it seems to me at this point in the thread.

The impact of the new house, the lawsuit, Carl's draft, etc, are all factors worth discussion. But we know what the 12 Smile tracks were going to be called, and in the whole first half of 1967, only three of them were substantively worked on, two being complete remakes, and all of them with an eye to 45 release. Surely there are some pretty solid inferences to be drawn from this?

EDIT: Oh, and a supporting bit of observation for that last paragraph. I think it's usually underemphasized that something crucial also first occurred in the 'Heroes' sessions of January - the cannibalisation of parts of other 'Smile' tracks and their incorporation into the projected singles. Ie. 'Bicycle Rider' being co-opted from Worms and used to produce a conventional chorus for 'Heroes'; the use of OMP's 'Part Two' as the fade for the 'Cantina' edit. The voice-and-keyboard 'Child' chorus recording in April, possibly intended (but not necessarily, though it's hard to see how it may have been intended to stand on its own) for Veggies or the new Wonderful, might be a later example. Mightn't this also suggest that Brian was beginning to consider the 'album tracks' recorded and assembled the previous year increasingly expendable?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The house is a red herring, among many.

This may be the most accurate sentence in this whole thread.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Re: Studio time, the March break in recording, and the March-April exodus of the 'Smile Faithful' (from Crawdaddy!, mid-'68):

David Anderle: 'That [the 'Fire' tape paranoia] was the first sign that we were going to have problems on this album. That, and the fact that for the first time Brian was having trouble with studios—getting studio time. Then he was having a problem with engineers.

That reminds me of something Bruce said to me when I mentioned Brian was basically engineering as well as producing, which was (I paraphrase slightly) "Not at Columbia, I saw the engineer there slap his hand away when he tried to touch the board".

[Cam Mott]

The house is a red herring, among many.

This may be the most accurate sentence in this whole thread.

Poor ol' Marilyn.

Taylor in the July article also associates the new house with Brian's "creative empasse" following "mid-Winter 1966/7": "None of these things, attractive and desirable though they may have been, were the answer. Nor was buying a new house a solution to his creative dilemma. How could it have been." 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I was referring to the concept of a communist kipper, not the domicile. 

[Bicyclerider]

Going back a page, I had suggested that guitarfool's proposition based on Priore and Carlin's accounts that Mike was the source of the Taylor "scrapped" press release, IMPLIED that Mike was sabotaging or trying to sabotage the project.   If not, what was his motivation if we agree that in fact Brian was still working on Smile, as evidenced by the Vegetables and ILTSDD sessions?  Or was he just the messenger relaying information from another source?

There's no doubt Van Dyke's leaving made the recording process more difficult for Brian - whereas before if on a whim Brian wrote and wanted to record a new section for a song, Van Dyke would be there and able to write lyrics to it, now he had to work with what Van Dyke had left and revisions became more difficult.  When he recorded "sweeping strings" in February he talks with Van, who is present, about the tempo needing to be slowed for the vocals - probably expecting Van was going to write lyrics to go there.  With Van gone, what does he do with that piece?

It seems after the lyric questioning in December, very little new lyrical work occurs, even though Van Dyke returns and attempts to help Brian finish Heroes and Villains.  The pressure for a single was clearly intense and Brian's focus starting in January shifts to getting a single and the other tracks are abandoned - presumably temporarily but in fact for good.  With the possible exception of that curious outlier, ILTSDD.

 

[filledeplage]

Re: Studio time, the March break in recording, and the March-April exodus of the 'Smile Faithful' (from Crawdaddy!, mid-'68):

David Anderle: 'That [the 'Fire' tape paranoia] was the first sign that we were going to have problems on this album. That, and the fact that for the first time Brian was having trouble with studios—getting studio time. Then he was having a problem with engineers.

That reminds me of something Bruce said to me when I mentioned Brian was basically engineering as well as producing, which was (I paraphrase slightly) "Not at Columbia, I saw the engineer there slap his hand away when he tried to touch the board".

Nothing like a primary source.   

[The Shift]

The home studio deal has me curious: how was a guy capable of playing a particular studio to its own individual qualities - resonance here, echo there, etc - gonna cope with the limitations of a single ad hoc home studio, the aural qualities of which would be singular, take it or leave it?

It's like an artist who's worked in pencils, oils, watercolours, sculpture, charcoal and more suddenly being restricted to a box of wax crayons…

I understand the perceived need to be able to get studio access on a whim, but at what cost, creatively?

[mike moseley]

a big cost - the H&V 45 is not well produced

The home studio deal has me curious: how was a guy capable of playing a particular studio to its own individual qualities - resonance here, echo there, etc - gonna cope with the limitations of a single ad hoc home studio, the aural qualities of which would be singular, take it or leave it?

It's like an artist who's worked in pencils, oils, watercolours, sculpture, charcoal and more suddenly being restricted to a box of wax crayons…

I understand the perceived need to be able to get studio access on a whim, but at what cost, creatively?

[filledeplage]

The home studio deal has me curious: how was a guy capable of playing a particular studio to its own individual qualities - resonance here, echo there, etc - gonna cope with the limitations of a single ad hoc home studio, the aural qualities of which would be singular, take it or leave it?

It's like an artist who's worked in pencils, oils, watercolours, sculpture, charcoal and more suddenly being restricted to a box of wax crayons…

I understand the perceived need to be able to get studio access on a whim, but at what cost, creatively?

JM - that is a great analogy. But, I'm thinking that a nice box of 64 Crayola crayons provides a lot of hues with which to create. Different accounts (I think in Carlin, which I don't have right now) Brian talks about having fun in the process making Smiley.  I'd love a sessions box of Smiley or even a download version.

They got inventive using the pool without an echo chamber.  And I think it might have helped restore the unity and confidence in each other.  That Spring of '67 was an all around horror show.  I think hearing Prayer for Al and some of the other vocal tracks they were on, frustrated them not to have it released.  (That is  also in Carlin's book.)

But, Heroes, I don't think was the single to release.  Everyone was waiting for the magnificent Surf's Up - some version with the voices of The Beach Boys.  It could have been the next Good Vibrations.  

And, at least Brian would not get his hands slapped by an engineer.  Wow, I found that shocking.  What were some of those people thinking?    

A benefit of being in your own space/home is that it isn't public or accessible through third parties, (nosebags) I suppose.  You can lock people out that you don't want in-your-face.    

[Cam Mott]

Going back a page, I had suggested that guitarfool's proposition based on Priore and Carlin's accounts that Mike was the source of the Taylor "scrapped" press release, IMPLIED that Mike was sabotaging or trying to sabotage the project.   If not, what was his motivation if we agree that in fact Brian was still working on Smile, as evidenced by the Vegetables and ILTSDD sessions?  Or was he just the messenger relaying information from another source?

There's no doubt Van Dyke's leaving made the recording process more difficult for Brian - whereas before if on a whim Brian wrote and wanted to record a new section for a song, Van Dyke would be there and able to write lyrics to it, now he had to work with what Van Dyke had left and revisions became more difficult.  When he recorded "sweeping strings" in February he talks with Van, who is present, about the tempo needing to be slowed for the vocals - probably expecting Van was going to write lyrics to go there.  With Van gone, what does he do with that piece?

It seems after the lyric questioning in December, very little new lyrical work occurs, even though Van Dyke returns and attempts to help Brian finish Heroes and Villains.  The pressure for a single was clearly intense and Brian's focus starting in January shifts to getting a single and the other tracks are abandoned - presumably temporarily but in fact for good.  With the possible exception of that curious outlier, ILTSDD.

 

I personal would like to see any attribution for that Mike reveal claim before getting obscured by the speculation.

Yet he is retooling the title and lyrics for Vegetables for the single and Smiley by April and that title nor ILTSDD are ever on the SMiLE track list nor are the titles of several other tracks to follow for Smiley through July.

[filledeplage]

Going back a page, I had suggested that guitarfool's proposition based on Priore and Carlin's accounts that Mike was the source of the Taylor "scrapped" press release, IMPLIED that Mike was sabotaging or trying to sabotage the project.   If not, what was his motivation if we agree that in fact Brian was still working on Smile, as evidenced by the Vegetables and ILTSDD sessions?  Or was he just the messenger relaying information from another source?

There's no doubt Van Dyke's leaving made the recording process more difficult for Brian - whereas before if on a whim Brian wrote and wanted to record a new section for a song, Van Dyke would be there and able to write lyrics to it, now he had to work with what Van Dyke had left and revisions became more difficult.  When he recorded "sweeping strings" in February he talks with Van, who is present, about the tempo needing to be slowed for the vocals - probably expecting Van was going to write lyrics to go there.  With Van gone, what does he do with that piece?

It seems after the lyric questioning in December, very little new lyrical work occurs, even though Van Dyke returns and attempts to help Brian finish Heroes and Villains.  The pressure for a single was clearly intense and Brian's focus starting in January shifts to getting a single and the other tracks are abandoned - presumably temporarily but in fact for good.  With the possible exception of that curious outlier, ILTSDD.

I personal would like to see any attribution for that Mike reveal claim before getting obscured by the speculation.

Yet he is retooling the title and lyrics for Vegetables for the single and Smiley by April and that title nor ILTSDD are ever on the SMiLE track list nor are the titles of several other tracks to follow for Smiley through July.

Cam - I think you (you are not alone)  are putting way too much stock in a PR guy. 

From Rusten/Stebbins..."Jann Wenner of the new San Francisco-based music paper Rolling Stone declared that Brian's 'promotion men started to tell him and his audience that he  was a 'genius' on par with Lennon and McCartney.  That's cool cause all just folks, but no one is John Lennon except John Lennon and no one is Paul McCartney except Paul McCartney.'" p. 97.

"Men" is plural - meaning those who went to Wenner.  Besides Taylor, who else is involved in this? 

Is the fine hand of Uncle Murry in this equation or is this "scrapped" press release a "frolic of his own?" (Taylor)

This is layers of he-said / she-said. 

[The Shift]

Is the Vegetables/vega-tables thing definitely a deliberate distinction in terms of differentiating tracks? Thinking of all those "Heros and Villians" tape boxes… Could it not be simply down to an engineer's inability to spell?

[Cam Mott]

Going back a page, I had suggested that guitarfool's proposition based on Priore and Carlin's accounts that Mike was the source of the Taylor "scrapped" press release, IMPLIED that Mike was sabotaging or trying to sabotage the project.   If not, what was his motivation if we agree that in fact Brian was still working on Smile, as evidenced by the Vegetables and ILTSDD sessions?  Or was he just the messenger relaying information from another source?

There's no doubt Van Dyke's leaving made the recording process more difficult for Brian - whereas before if on a whim Brian wrote and wanted to record a new section for a song, Van Dyke would be there and able to write lyrics to it, now he had to work with what Van Dyke had left and revisions became more difficult.  When he recorded "sweeping strings" in February he talks with Van, who is present, about the tempo needing to be slowed for the vocals - probably expecting Van was going to write lyrics to go there.  With Van gone, what does he do with that piece?

It seems after the lyric questioning in December, very little new lyrical work occurs, even though Van Dyke returns and attempts to help Brian finish Heroes and Villains.  The pressure for a single was clearly intense and Brian's focus starting in January shifts to getting a single and the other tracks are abandoned - presumably temporarily but in fact for good.  With the possible exception of that curious outlier, ILTSDD.

I personal would like to see any attribution for that Mike reveal claim before getting obscured by the speculation.

Yet he is retooling the title and lyrics for Vegetables for the single and Smiley by April and that title nor ILTSDD are ever on the SMiLE track list nor are the titles of several other tracks to follow for Smiley through July.

Cam - I think you (you are not alone)  are putting way too much stock in a PR guy. 

From Rusten/Stebbins..."Jann Wenner of the new San Francisco-based music paper Rolling Stone declared that Brian's 'promotion men started to tell him and his audience that he  was a 'genius' on par with Lennon and McCartney.  That's cool cause all just folks, but no one is John Lennon except John Lennon and no one is Paul McCartney except Paul McCartney.'" p. 97.

"Men" is plural - meaning those who went to Wenner.  Besides Taylor, who else is involved in this? 

Is the fine hand of Uncle Murry in this equation or is this "scrapped" press release a "frolic of his own?" (Taylor)

This is layers of he-said / she-said. 

None of that post was dependent on Taylor but I get what you mean. On the other hand Taylor was there, seems to be connected in ways other journalists weren't, and his reporting is not always flattering. Imo, he is maybe getting stereotyped and seems to be a truthful source as much as any scenester is with their understanding of things.

[Cam Mott]

Is the Vegetables/vega-tables thing definitely a deliberate distinction in terms of differentiating tracks? Thinking of all those "Heros and Villians" tape boxes… Could it not be simply down to an engineer's inability to spell?

Doesn't Brian slate it as "Vegetables" on the April recordings?