Carl and Mike's relationship

[drbeachboy]

Did you miss the "moster" and "phenomenal"?

Yea, and so what am I missing here? I take it that he loved Carl's vocals on SIP.

[Lowbacca]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike always speaks from the "Hits" perspective, which is odd, but I guess Kokomo had him thinking that way.

I agree but it's nevertheless amazing though that all the other commercially-oriented songs that did not do well throughout this period didn't phase him.

From that "Hits" perspective, Carl was the most commercial sounding as a lead vocalist. I see nothing wrong with Mike's comment. Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Well, but that's not what Mike is saying. He's talking about a particular album and is suggesting that Carl is sounding better than ever because he sounds so commercial now. The quotation has nothing to do with who is the most commercial sounding in the band (I think that Mike would have an edge there anyway since he's such a part of the brand sound) nor is it a remark about anyone's career output - it is an observation about a particular person on one particular album.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Did you miss the "monster" and "phenomenal"?

Did you miss the context in which they appeared?

That reminds me of a time when Brian said,

"You're" "the" "smartest" "person" "I" "have" "ever" "met." Yes, that was from 8 different interviews and he's talking about a whole bunch of different stuff, but seriously pay attention to the words that I am pointing to and understand that he's really giving me quite the compliment.

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike is an odd duck....

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Did you miss the "moster" and "phenomenal"?

Yea, and so what am I missing here? I take it that he loved Carl's vocals on SIP.

And in proper context, he loved them because they sounded commercial which is a strange reason to like something. Even the most unaware fanatic of popcorn movies will at least praise the special effects or action sequences or the looks of the actors or something - they won't come walking out of the theatre going, "Man, that was one awesomely commercial movie."

[drbeachboy]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

[Lowbacca]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

Sure. Of course he had "a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice". I think what we actually are arguing about here is the "rock&roll" term.

[drbeachboy]

Did you miss the "moster" and "phenomenal"?

Yea, and so what am I missing here? I take it that he loved Carl's vocals on SIP.

And in proper context, he loved them because they sounded commercial which is a strange reason to like something. Even the most unaware fanatic of popcorn movies will at least praise the special effects or action sequences or the looks of the actors or something - they won't come walking out of the theatre going, "Man, that was one awesomely commercial movie."

Why obsess over a word? I think he meant he sounded great. Maybe "commercial" was Mike's word of the day and he had to use it a sentence somewhere. Oh, I'll bet record companies like commercial sounding groups and singers. Meaning ones who have a hit sound about them.

[drbeachboy]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

Sure. Of course he had "a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice". I think what we actually are arguing about here is the "rock&roll" term.

No we are not. He has a very rock n roll type voice when he sings those types of songs.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

Sure. Of course he had "a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice". I think what we actually are arguing about here is the "rock&roll" term.

No we are not. He has a very rock n roll type voice when he sings those types of songs.

Erm, you did suggest that Carl "had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys."

[Cam Mott]

Did you miss the "moster" and "phenomenal"?

Yea, and so what am I missing here? I take it that he loved Carl's vocals on SIP.

And in proper context, he loved them because they sounded commercial which is a strange reason to like something. Even the most unaware fanatic of popcorn movies will at least praise the special effects or action sequences or the looks of the actors or something - they won't come walking out of the theatre going, "Man, that was one awesomely commercial movie."

Or he loved them AND they were were also commercial. I for one would not be insulted by this trifecta compliment.

[Lowbacca]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

Sure. Of course he had "a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice". I think what we actually are arguing about here is the "rock&roll" term.

No we are not. He has a very rock n roll type voice when he sings those types of songs.

Well I am. I'd argue that Carl definitely did not have the rock&roll voice in the group.

[drbeachboy]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

Sure. Of course he had "a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice". I think what we actually are arguing about here is the "rock&roll" term.

No we are not. He has a very rock n roll type voice when he sings those types of songs.

Well I am. I'd argue that Carl definitely did not have the rock&roll voice in the group.

I am not arguing anything. That's all this place ever does is argue. If you don't like my comment, please ignore it and forget that I ever mentioned it.

[Lowbacca]

Carl had the rock 'n' roll voice in The Beach Boys.

Quite the contrary, I think. Carl's voice was almost angelic, hardly edgy/macho or anything rock&roll - especially in comparison to Mike. Even Al had a more rock&roll voice, I think. Sure, Carl could do it, but he hardly ever rocked out (two examples being live versions of "Darlin'" or "Marcella").

Just because that wasn't always his roll in the band doesn't mean that he didn't have the voice for it. There are plenty of examples where he did with the group and with his solo albums. Shoot, even on background vocals he is the easiest to pick out. Like Michael McDonald, he had a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice.

Sure. Of course he had "a very distinctive and commercial sounding voice". I think what we actually are arguing about here is the "rock&roll" term.

No we are not. He has a very rock n roll type voice when he sings those types of songs.

Well I am. I'd argue that Carl definitely did not have the rock&roll voice in the group.

I am not arguing anything. That's all this place ever does is argue. If you don't like my comment, please ignore it and forget that I ever mentioned it.

Dude, I was merely having a discussion with you. Both 'sides' presenting arguments and stuff. But okay, I'll drop it. (I've no clue what just happened...  )

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Did you miss the "moster" and "phenomenal"?

Yea, and so what am I missing here? I take it that he loved Carl's vocals on SIP.

And in proper context, he loved them because they sounded commercial which is a strange reason to like something. Even the most unaware fanatic of popcorn movies will at least praise the special effects or action sequences or the looks of the actors or something - they won't come walking out of the theatre going, "Man, that was one awesomely commercial movie."

Why obsess over a word? I think he meant he sounded great. Maybe "commercial" was Mike's word of the day and he had to use it a sentence somewhere. Oh, I'll bet record companies like commercial sounding groups and singers. Meaning ones who have a hit sound about them.

That's what I'm saying - Mike should have been an executive.

[Nicko1234]

This thread has become very odd. I'm not sure how Mike praising Carl's singing is seen as a bad thing but there we go. Personally I don't have a problem with any of the things that he said about Al there either.

By the way, Al gave an interview in ESQ in about 2000 which is much more bitter about Mike. Obviously I can understand he was bitter about being frozen out of The Beach Boys but he even criticized Mike for marrying Jacqueline which was a bit much. In the interview Al said that Mike never forgave him and Carl for getting rid of the cheerleaders which I don't really believe but there we are.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

Well, so much for the discussion about Carl's and Mike's relationship.

[KittyKat]

I'm not sure why this board bothers discussing Mike Love. It's almost not worth clicking on any thread with the name Mike in the title.

[Jason]

I just find it funny that a bunch of nobodies go on and on about a man who is more successful than they'll probably ever be...Michael really cares what people have to say about him, but he can't hear the bullshit over the sound of thousands of adoring fans night after night.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

This thread has become very odd. I'm not sure how Mike praising Carl's singing is seen as a bad thing but there we go.

I can't tell if you're intentionally missing the point or not.

[Doo Dah]

It's just a question of bias. Commercialism being the be all, end all. That's Mike's bias, and Carl (just a supposition mind you) probably had a broader perspective. Recall Bruce's comments on Pacific Ocean Blue (well before its remastering and re release) that he felt it wasn't 'commercial' enough. Bias. It's no wonder that Mike and Bruce are BFF's. The whole Mike and Carl relationship may have been close but frequently chaffed under the weight of the whole hit machine mindset. Does that make him a baaaad person? No...but I've got my biases too, so there you go.

And regarding the sound of thousands of adoring fans night after night, that's a moot point. We had the same dynamic in 2012 - and it walked the tightrope between commerce and ART. That's the difference, and Mike couldn't care less. C'est la vie.

[Cam Mott]

Mike thought Carl was artfully commercial. Isn't that the point in Popular Music. Commercial is not a bad word in Popular Music. You don't get to express yourself long in Popular Music if you aren't commercial and popular. Imo.

[clack]

I just find it funny that a bunch of nobodies go on and on about a man who is more successful than they'll probably ever be...Michael really cares what people have to say about him, but he can't hear the bullshit over the sound of thousands of adoring fans night after night.

I've always found the logic of this line of argument unpersuasive.

"Rich and famous person X is more 'successful' (however that is defined) than his critics, therefore the criticism is invalid." So Jay Leno, say,  is above criticism? Justin Bieber? George Bush, Obama?

Anyway, Mike's statement is ill-considered on the face of it. Is Carl's vocals on 'Hot Fun in the Summertime' , for instance, more commercial than his vocals on GOK? GV? If so, then why was SIP such a commercial shipwreck?

[Doo Dah]

Whenever we're ragging on [insert any celebrity actor/athlete here], a brother of a friend of mine likes to opine, "he makes more money that YOU do."

Oh jeez, guess you're right. Never mind. End of discussion!