The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm away from the Bellagio Research Vault & Library at the moment, so a question: are the fire hats in the faux Fire Music footage from Western* the same as the ones worn in the "GV" promo film ? Not an idle question.

[* that has the 8-track in the background that has no right to be there  :) ]

They appear to be the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi_DgDOxyvA

I would like to know, your majesty AGD :-D, what were dates of these two films.I remember reading somewhere that the fire station scenes were filmed in october 1966 before the boys went for England?? Further more did the scenes in studio filmed the same day and for what song, since it is clear they are workin on a song..and even Van Dyke Parks is there!! So it seems it s not MOCW session, since VDP did not attend that one! Or am I simply mistaken??

Not a "Fire" session because...

Too early and...

Wrong studio.

Although...

When I interviewed Chuck Britz back in 1985 at Western, he related a session for Fire that he engineered there. Another mystery...

Exactly the same. Here are the still frames I posted a few years back that show them, and the original threads where these topics appeared - These were some of the better discussions I've ever had on this board:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10570.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10570.0.html)
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13763.msg303641.html#msg303641 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13763.msg303641.html#msg303641)


(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/cokes1.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianfilm1.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianfilm3.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/vdphat.jpg)
(http://psychobabble100.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/bw_hat.jpg)

Nile: Check out the two thread links I posted, those are the best and most comprehensive research ever done on that film, and the timeline, and the whole ball of wax.

The "American Band" thread specifically gets into one of the bigger mysteries: What was an 8-track tape machine doing at Western in the Fall of 1966?  ;)

Roger that. In the badman book he said that they filmed the good vibes video on oct 23 1966 but when writing my book I was able to find proof that the bbs headed straight to Europe after the Michigan dates. Hence it had to be filmed prior to October 21 but we don't know the exact date.

Definitely, the Badman date doesn't line up. And this is an honest statement: I'd love to hire a lip reader to translate what is being said in that silent Western #3 film with Chuck and Van Dyke, to help decipher what they possibly could have been working on that day with the 8-track machine, and be able to better date that clip as well. There are professionals who are available for hire (and a fee) to read lips in silent home movies and the like, of course with my luck the fee would be paid, the lips would be read, and nothing beyond "yeah, that's good" would come out of it!  ;D

The last photo of Brian wearing the hat minus his shirt, that is definitely at Gold Star: Was this the actual fire session when he had "Brother Julius" light the fire in the studio? I assumed it was.

And the interesting thing was it seemed Brian kept a stash of those plastic fire hats in his car, I think that's even mentioned in the Seigel article, which means if he felt like a session needed the hats to create a vibe, he had a supply of them available on call! Classic Brian, 1966/67.

Tnx guys.I will look what other threads say..but something doesnt add up with this studio movie and photos from fire session..so definetely other date in question! Interesting that supposedly Dennis bought Brian some fire hats in London.I think I read that in Mojo 2002 Smile article.soo yet another mystery.I just cant belueve how many are there in Smile story.so much confusion...

The Dennis in England story is a different thing altogether, different fire helmets as well. A camera crew was following the band around on their late '66 tour of England, and it captured them walking into an antique shop. That film shows Dennis and Al checking out an antique Gramophone record player, playing some old instruments, and seeing some antique fire helmets for sale. Dennis mentions how Brian loved fire hats, and I can't recall if Dennis buys them from that shop for Brian or not.

A lot of the confusion was sorted out and researched out in those two threads, and can be pieced together through the photos. There *are* photos from the most relevant "Fire" session at Gold Star, one specifically showing the Sid Sharp Strings recording their parts, and others like I posted above of Brian (with or without shirt) in the control room of Gold Star producing the session.

The photos of Chuck Britz and Brian are 100% Western 3, and are 100% showing an 8-track machine in use, and were also 100% mislabeled and incorrectly identified in that American Band documentary. There is, again, absolutely no confusion regarding where these films and photos were taken, as a lot of time was spent researching them...beyond the obvious that the film shows Western 3, and the one and only "Fire" session logged in the documentation was held at Gold Star, Nov. 28th 1966. And like I said, that last photo of Brian with fire hat sans shirt is at Gold Star.

maybe as simple as taking a copy of the video to an organization for the hearing impaired asking them to translate? or offering it as practice for those learning to read lips, perhaps...

I actually searched online for such services, but they were either charging a fee (for home movies, silent footage, etc) or seemed to be specifically for the hearing impaired. If anyone has a resource, please let me/us know and it absolutely will be followed up, I promise!

Let me follow up a bit with the London '66 footage...for those who don't know the history, this was footage shot by Peter Whitehead, again on the Boys' UK tour in '66, and the scene we're talking about was shot specifically on Portobello Road at a shop-boutique called "I Was Lord Kitchener's Valet". My term "antique shop" was a bit misleading, because the "Valet" place was apparently a hot-spot in a different category than your average antique shops...from what I understand.  :)

Now the question for the deep history/backstory elements:

I *know* I have seen and I think I even have in a dusty box of discs the footage of Dennis and Al in that shop *with sound*, and with a timing strip running underneath. The quality is a bit rough, the sound is spotty, and overall it's a pretty poor cut of the film, but I know for a fact there was sound and dialogue as Denny and Al are browsing the shop, because I've heard it.

Now...there was a DVD release called Beach Boys In London, which was the Peter Whitehead film footage we're discussing, but it was silent!

Again, knowing I heard and may even have a copy of that footage with sound, did they deliberately remove the audio track to avoid paying rights and fees for the audio? Or was the cut they had to work with on that DVD really silent?

Because again, I know and can remember some of the dialogue from Dennis and Al, yet the DVD has no audio, and it seems any traces of the film with audio have been removed from YouTube and other sources online.

Someone please help fill in the gaps here, and if someone can send some ESP waves my way to help me remember where I may have this, please do!  ;D

The original "Beach Boys in London" film that aired in late '66 or early '67 had sound and was in color. It was narrated by Marianne Faithfull and produced by Andrew Loog Oldham and ran 30 minutes, including the Dennis/Al shop footage with full sound. Please refer to your Beach Boys FAQ book, page 231 for confirmation. I've owned a nice quality copy of the film as aired for 15 years or more. All later versions, no sound, black and white, some with added footage are grey market or boots.

yep, that's it. All that was off the top of my head and by memory, as I didn't have the book in front of me. I know I have at least one of the grey market/boot copies with sound, so that was my reference. I should look into upgrading that!  ;D

So to the poster who mentioned the item which appeared in Mojo back in 2002, this is what we're referring to and it has nothing to do with the plastic fire hats Andrew was asking about as seen in the photos.

Don't have access to the Mojo in question, but I seem to recall a reference to Dennis bringing Brian antique fire helmets from London ran in a 66/67 NME or in one of those Derek Taylor press snippets somewhere in the UK press at that time, but that's just a vague recollection. I always thought Dennis' mention of Brian's love for fire helmets in the '66 Beach Boys in London shop footage was a meaningful confirmation that the fire hats weren't just a whim, but perhaps something closer to an obsession for Brian at that time.

Fire hats...lol

Even a little tyke knows they are Firemans HELMETS. You got them kid-sized at the dime store

This isn't verbatim, but Dennis says something along the lines of "Brian just loooooves fire hats".

It definitely seemed to be a thing with Brian at this time!

This is what I love about the 1966-67 era, not just discussing the details and the history as in this thread, but the sense of humor (sometime unintentional) that surrounded a lot of these events.

Fortunately the Seigel article kicks off in pretty good detail describing the "Fire" session at Gold Star, and mentioning the hats of course. Brian's inner circle in the studio, the Rovell sisters, Seigel, Terry Sachen, Steve Korthof...they all were wearing the plastic fire hats. Then Brian sends Steve out to his Rolls Royce to get more fire hats to give to the studio musicians and staff to wear, to help get them into the vibe of the session.

So picture this: There is Brian who had just bought that Rolls from Lew Adler because the Rolls Royces his brothers and Mike had bought while in England would not be arriving in LA for several weeks. He pulls up to the studio eating takeout fried shrimp in a basket, and apparently has what must have been a case of toy fire hats packed in the Rolls, which were fetched and passed out to the musicians.

According to Stephen Desper, also found in the backseat of Brian's Rolls Royce around early July 1967 when they were going to KHJ with the Heroes acetate was a lawn mower.

The Rolls Royce especially in the 60's was one of the ultimate status symbol autos, reserved for the most wealthy and influential people, especially in the US where they had to be imported from the UK at great additional cost.

And in the span of this year, Brian Wilson had in his Rolls a case of toy fire helmets, a lawn mower, and was stopping off to get takeout fried shrimp and chicken.

That's the humor and the sense of the absurd contradictions that marked this period of time, and it's absolutely fascinating as well as funny if you look for the humor in all of this.

And back to the timeline, if the BB's were wearing the plastic helmets in the GV video, and that was before they left for the tour in later October, Brian already had that stash of helmets at the ready for the Fire sessions on Nov. 28. It doesn't help date the Western 3 film where they're also wearing them, but it does suggest that the helmets were a thing with Brian that fall.

Cool stuff.

Along with all your research (on the fantastic Bellagio site) and the book you did with Tobler...what's the outlet of this and other interviews you've done over the years? (Perhaps write another book? 😉) I would LOVE to read all those interviews and what not...and speaking of reading something of yours, I'd love to read other observations in your experience over the years of meeting beach boys/various related folk, attending concerts and beach boys conventions..it would provide a unique point if view for  this young beach boys fan. There's so much I'd love to hear about that you've experienced.

By the way-just so there is no confusion:  In the November 18 1966 edition of New Musical Express (NME), Mike (interviewed during the UK tour of Nov 6-14) described the recently filmed video for Good Vibrations to writer Keith Altham in detail.  So there is NO DOUBT that the fire engine video was filmed prior to the 66 European tour-hence before October 21, 1966.

GF, what does the late delivery of Rolls Royce's from the UK have to do with Brian getting his from Adler? 'Cause he wanted to be the "first on his block" to have one before the other band members got theirs? Or he couldn't wait another few weeks for his to arrive? Or was all this part of the game of delivering a record for debut at a radio station in a timely manner?

And I thought Dennis bought his Rolls from Ringo.

This is according to and paraphrased from the Seigel article, remember this is late October/November 1966: Mike, Carl, and Dennis bought themselves Rolls Royces while on tour in the UK and also put in an order for Brian for one from the same dealership. Seigel says the cost was $32,000 each. But the car Brian ordered would not arrive in the US for three months, so in the meantime Brian bought a Rolls from Lew Adler, a Rolls which had been owned previously by John Lennon, for $20,000. Again going from what Jules wrote, Brian seemed excited to pull up to Capitol for meetings in such a lavish car, describing how it would be an event rather than an everyday thing to drive up in a Rolls, chauffeur driven by Terry Sachen.

Mentioning Lew Adler, it reminds me of something I heard about Adler's group the Mamas And Papas. When the money really started rolling in, the band members would start competing with each other in a way over buying lavish items and spending hordes of money. If John bought, say, an Alfa-Romeo sports car, when Cass found out she would go and buy one too, then go and buy something else lavish, which Denny Doherty would then match, etc...that's just an example but it's describing how they were basically throwing money around like it was nothing back in those days when the big checks started rolling in. This was a band that not too long before the big hits was about to return home basically broke.

As far as Brian's motivation for dropping 32 G on a brand new Rolls direct from the UK then buying one from Adler for 20 in the same week or two? It sounds like maybe he just didn't want to wait three months, and it seemed like he wanted to literally make a grand entrance to where he was coming and going in LA, or as he said create "an event". I'm thinking as important as late 1966 was going to be with the hottest new single, a new album due to come out (sure to sell a million units!), he wanted to have a status car to go along with all of it.

Just assuming that based on Seigel, whose description is probably the best snapshot of that particular time.

Lou, not Lew.

And we're talking about a man here who, when he couldn't find somewhere open to buy a ping-pong table at 2am, decided to open such an establishment. I'd love to have seen Anderle's face.  ;D

In the course of researching "The SMiLE Sessions" for the big box set sessionography, we discovered that the following lat '66 sessions took place at Western using an 8-track...one of the contemporary articles mentioned it as being Brian's personal 8-track machine...Brian most likely rented it for awhile and kept it at Bellagio, but had it brought into Western for these two sessions:

WIND CHIMES TAG - 10/5/66 (cut on 8-track at Western and, bizarrely, transferred to 4-track for vocal overdubs at Columbia, instead of the other way around!)
I'M IN GREAT SHAPE - 10/27/66 (cut on 8-track at Western)

That Wind Chimes piano tag overdub session is described in Michael Vosse's "Teen Set" article, ending with Brian shooting a fire extinguisher at David Anderle! Funny this came up, I just saw that reference to Brian's tape machine last night looking for something else, and it's described as: "In the booth his personal 8-track tape machine is ready to roll". But Vosse made no mention of the Beach Boys being there as a group for that session, and obviously the group was already in Europe on 10/27.

I'm saying that because Vosse's Teen Set piece combined with the session research definitely proves there was an 8-track at Western on several occasions, more than a lot of us assumed was the case previously, and with one of them captured on film, but doesn't really pin down the date of that film due to the band being there.

In the original threads, it was suggested the session on film could have been purely a mixdown or a playback session, as that is the only action seemingly captured on the film as Brian and Chuck look like they're playing and rewinding the tape, listening and possibly mixing. Were these mixdown sessions logged as well, if that's what it was and if they would even have the full band come in for something like that?

In the same issue, 11/18/66, the "Hollywood: Tracy Thomas" column mentions this under the headline "Meanwhile ... what's Brian doing back at base?" :

Before the Boys left, they made their first film for TV that they've had complete control over. (Brian)"We're excited about it because it's a new medium for us"

Not that it needed more confirmation than was already here, but consider this "triple no doubt" as to the date of the GV film!  ;D

Anderle and Nick Grillo, too! Wasn't there also a story of Brian wanting to buy a scientific-grade telescope to put in his house after he went on an astronomy kick around this same time, or am I confusing that with something else? I'm guessing it was similar to the look they gave Brian when he asked if they'd go to a bar and start a fight, so he could record the sounds of an authentic "barroom brawl" on tape.  :)

In Grillo's case, as the financial/numbers guy, it may have paled in comparison to his face when he saw the numbers come in from the Maharishi tour.  "You spent WHAT on flowers???"  :lol

I thought it was a telescope.

So I guess it wasn't too late to cancel his order for the Rolls from the UK, or he bought it anyway and had two (unlikely) or sold the extra one to somebody else.

The one Brian ordered from England was a custom order, the article mentions him choosing the colors which the car would be painted. If Rolls Royces can be described this way, the one he bought from Adler previously belonging to Lennon could be called a "placeholder" until Brian's custom-order model arrived in the States!  :)

I guess as much cache as would come with driving around LA in 1966/67 in a Rolls previously owned by John Lennon, having a custom-color model delivered straight from the source would put it into another league of status.

I wondered too, Mikie, what happened to either of these cars if and when the new one arrived from England. We know one of them eventually had a lawn mower kept in the back seat.  ;D

And correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I seem to remember someone like Audree Wilson in Rolling Stone '76, or someone else describing how the Manson clan trashed Dennis' Rolls...anyone remember what that interview/quote could be?

In the November '76 issue of Rolling Stone, Audree said that Manson, or one of his followers, stole Dennis' Ferrari and any other possession of his that could be moved.

It's both - the 24/7 idea starts with telescopes then moves onto ping-pong; as per David Anderle's recollections in the Tom Nolan RS article.

Do I remember wrong or is there also an article from the time that says Brian brought his own grand piano to the studio? Or am I getting it mixed up with an 8-track recorder?

This seems to be a version of the fire hats still sold by Sears:

http://www.sears.com/in-fashion-kids-child-fireman-hat-red/p-SPM6281673703?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

Possibly made by a company called Toysmith. A Toysmith's website says they've only been in business since 1981.

http://www.toysmith.com/story/

Not sure if that is the right Toysmith or not.

Is it me or do the vintage hats have a felt or soft brim?

I'll be there are numerous fans out there who, like me, saw the link to those Toysmith hats and thought, "Do I need to get one of those for my BB collection?"