So who's been to BAD and M&B this summer?

[Pretty Funky]

Just what was Stamos' role on stage at the C50 shows that he appeared at? My understanding was that he filled in on Forever after the video went down. He was at 2 shows out of 73 and this is a big deal why? He is insignificant. Just a guest on the concert tours. He has no impact except to help put fannies in the seats, at least at the onset of appearing with them.

Here is the incident in question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUkxNVV-QJI&list=ULHOFUWy_DZjk

Of all the singers onstage that night, he was the only one who had the sense to take the lead and continue. Was it a jack-up? Doubt it. Did the others know the words? Probably. But to the guys credit he, no one else, stepped up.

[Micha]

I saved myself a lot of time not reading any of the John Stamos related posts. I never watched his TV show in my life, if it wasn't for this board I wouldn't know his name.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Taylor hung out for the encore at Darien? Huh. Never realized that. I was hustled out by my brother and friend and wife so we could hightail it back to the campsite for bourbon! I will have to look up the intro to Marcella, as well as Marcella itself. Never realized the intro was a musical pun, and didn't really notice her contribution to the song itself at the time.

Taylor Mills had been doing that vocal intro part to "Marcella" for a number of years at Brian's solo gigs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tHJcs7UB4

Holy crap! That is one rockin' version of Marcella, as it should be. The C50 version seemed kind of limp. Thanks!

[filledeplage]

Just what was Stamos' role on stage at the C50 shows that he appeared at? My understanding was that he filled in on Forever after the video went down. He was at 2 shows out of 73 and this is a big deal why? He is insignificant. Just a guest on the concert tours. He has no impact except to help put fannies in the seats, at least at the onset of appearing with them.

Here is the incident in question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUkxNVV-QJI&list=ULHOFUWy_DZjk

Of all the singers onstage that night, he was the only one who had the sense to take the lead and continue. Was it a jack-up? Doubt it. Did the others know the words? Probably. But to the guys credit he, no one else, stepped up.

Well, as they say, "the camera doesn't lie."  Glitch occurs, Stamos reacts, finishes the song, smoothly, while things are going haywire with the video, controlled by another areas of the venue.  Good for John.  Mike deferentially stepped aside for Dennis' tribute song, which Stamos popularized further, advancing it to the global marketplace. 

No good deed goes unpunished.

[Cyncie]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

[Wirestone]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

[filledeplage]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

In the absence of video and audio, what did any other band member do?  John was like a lifeguard jumping in the deep end.  (That job I would know.) This is not a time to have a "summit" over who was going to fill in the spot. You don't think; you just react.  If you hesitate, someone drowns.  Your training makes you react.  All those years on screen and on stage when something goes wrong, and Stamos has learned to jump in and get the job done.  He swung into action where he saw a need, that would have caused embarrassment. 

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

[drbeachboy]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

That's just as stupid a plan as I have ever read. Remind me not to go swimming with you after the life guard goes home. You and Cincie would let me drown by your thinking.

[gfac22]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Well, if there was a "plan b," they sure were taking their sweet time putting it into action.  It's not like as soon as the screen went down Stamos ran onstage, kicked Al in the balls, stole his microphone, started blowing kisses to the girls in the front row and sang the song.  There was more than enough time for anybody else in the band to jump in and nobody did.  From the looks of it, he was just as surprised as anybody else.  Maybe somebody backstage grabbed him and shoved him out there?

Here's a better question: who cares?  And why did I just write an entire paragraph about it?  It was one performance of one song on an entire tour.

[HeyJude]

Dunno where all the lifeguard metaphors came from, but in any event, the thing is that the “Forever” glitch was not a dire, earth-shattering concert glitch in the first place. It didn’t need “saving.” It was a professionally slightly embarrassing glitch, but picking up the lead vocal after the glitch has already started doesn’t cover up the embarrassing glitch. It had already occurred.

I think the issue is more about humility, to me anyway. Would the band or show have been measurably worse off for having done a full instrumental version of the song? I don’t think so. The show was measurably (to some fans anyway) worse off seeing Stamos overstep his place as a “guest” sitting in with the band. Why didn’t anybody else pick up the lead? Oh, I dunno, maybe because everybody else in the band (especially the backing band) were busy actually singing and playing a substantive part in the song’s performance. If you’re trotting around stage posing as a rockstar, then it’s easier to just pick up the lead vocal because you’re otherwise not playing any integral part in the song’s peformance.

If Stamos had some humility, and truly held the band in the high esteem he’s always saying he does, he would be aware of the perception that some fans see him as a mooch, as a poser, wannabe Beach Boy, etc., and that taking over the lead on a Dennis Wilson tribute number would give the appearance of at least potentially, possibly being in poor taste to some fans. If Stamos was somehow aware the Dennis vocal had dropped out and not a single other person on stage was aware of it, he could have gone over to Brian, or another BB, or another backing band member, and told them this fact and told them to start singing. 

[drbeachboy]

Dunno where all the lifeguard metaphors came from, but in any event, the thing is that the “Forever” glitch was not a dire, earth-shattering concert glitch in the first place. It didn’t need “saving.” It was a professionally slightly embarrassing glitch, but picking up the lead vocal after the glitch has already started doesn’t cover up the embarrassing glitch. It had already occurred.

I think the issue is more about humility, to me anyway. Would the band or show have been measurably worse off for having done a full instrumental version of the song? I don’t think so. The show was measurably (to some fans anyway) worse off seeing Stamos overstep his place as a “guest” sitting in with the band. Why didn’t anybody else pick up the lead? Oh, I dunno, maybe because everybody else in the band (especially the backing band) were busy actually singing and playing a substantive part in the song’s performance. If you’re trotting around stage posing as a rockstar, then it’s easier to just pick up the lead vocal because you’re otherwise not playing any integral part in the song’s peformance.

If Stamos had some humility, and truly held the band in the high esteem he’s always saying he does, he would be aware of the perception that some fans see him as a mooch, as a poser, wannabe Beach Boy, etc., and that taking over the lead on a Dennis Wilson tribute number would give the appearance of at least potentially, possibly being in poor taste to some fans. If Stamos was somehow aware the Dennis vocal had dropped out and not a single other person on stage was aware of it, he could have gone over to Brian, or another BB, or another backing band member, and told them this fact and told them to start singing. 

Mike & Al (who are 2 Beach Boys) looked like they were fine with the whole proceeding. He had sung it on a Beach Boys record, so if anyone was to jump in to sing it, he would be the most likely candidate. I did not see anyone on stage take issue with it at all. Only the people here who have Stamos Envy. Get over it, already!

[HeyJude]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not. That would be the difference. Are we nitpicking? I dunno. If it had been any other "guest", it would have been more harshly criticized I would guess.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable. How many of those million hits are non-Beach Boys Stamos fans? "California Dreamin'" is a "Beach Boys" song, but I never went and bought all the Mamas and Papas albums because of it. Not the best analogy, but the point is that between fans of Stamos' "Forever" who were already BB fans, and fans of Stamos' "Forever" who largely simply care about him and not the BB's, I don't think he brought in a ton of fans who previously never heard of the BB's who then became huge BB fans buying a bunch of their albums and attending their shows regularly.

Saying Stamos brought the BB's more fans is like saying Michael Jackson brought McCartney more Beatles fans. Technically true surely, but how much more can you add to a huge fanbase? As I mentioned before, Stamos didn't help new albums sales for the BB's at all; "Summer in Paradise" tanked. So the area he could have helped them most was concert ticket sales, which the BB's have never had problems with since the 80's.

[Cyncie]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

That's just as stupid a plan as I have ever read. Remind me not to go swimming with you after the life guard goes home. You and Cincie would let me drown by your thinking.

Huh?  Well, if Bruce was being electrocuted by the spit in his own microphone, yeah. I'd expect Stamos or anyone else to jump in and save him. This was just a song in a concert by The Beach Boys. What to do about the dropped video was their call. Not Uncle Jessie's. If it was their creative choice to sit around staring at their navels, then that was their choice. These guys are professionals.  This was their performance, Stamos was just along for the ride that night.  Someone was stage manager and the call was his to make. IMO, Stamos over stepped his place.

[filledeplage]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not. That would be the difference. Are we nitpicking? I dunno. If it had been any other "guest", it would have been more harshly criticized I would guess.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable. How many of those million hits are non-Beach Boys Stamos fans? "California Dreamin'" is a "Beach Boys" song, but I never went and bought all the Mamas and Papas albums because of it. Not the best analogy, but the point is that between fans of Stamos' "Forever" who were already BB fans, and fans of Stamos' "Forever" who largely simply care about him and not the BB's, I don't think he brought in a ton of fans who previously never heard of the BB's who then became huge BB fans buying a bunch of their albums and attending their shows regularly.

Saying Stamos brought the BB's more fans is like saying Michael Jackson brought McCartney more Beatles fans. Technically true surely, but how much more can you add to a huge fanbase? As I mentioned before, Stamos didn't help new albums sales for the BB's at all; "Summer in Paradise" tanked. So the area he could have helped them most was concert ticket sales, which the BB's have never had problems with since the 80's.

Bennett did not sing lead on  Forever on Summer in Paradise. And, he didn't work with Carl and the Band since the mid 1980's.  Stamos did.  He is what I'd call an "ancillary" Touring Band member.  And he is asked for, all the time.  He has his own fandom apart from the Band.

We can debate the additional fans and album sales, but I won't convince anyone, so won't expend the effort.

Name recognition is another story. The kids "know" who the Band is. Ask any politican about name recognition. See what they say about it.


Lifeguarding...the ticket through college and grad school.  Keeping clean with all that chlorine.  Sorry, I could not resist!

[drbeachboy]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

That's just as stupid a plan as I have ever read. Remind me not to go swimming with you after the life guard goes home. You and Cincie would let me drown by your thinking.

Huh?  Well, if Bruce was being electrocuted by the spit in his own microphone, yeah. I'd expect Stamos or anyone else to jump in and save him. This was just a song in a concert by The Beach Boys. What to do about the dropped video was their call. Not Uncle Jessie's. If it was their creative choice to sit around staring at their navels, then that was their choice. These guys are professionals.  This was their performance, Stamos was just along for the ride that night.  Someone was stage manager and the call was his to make. IMO, Stamos over stepped his place.

A very good thing that your opinion didn't count that night. Now, I know you would have let me drown.

[Cyncie]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

That's just as stupid a plan as I have ever read. Remind me not to go swimming with you after the life guard goes home. You and Cincie would let me drown by your thinking.

Huh?  Well, if Bruce was being electrocuted by the spit in his own microphone, yeah. I'd expect Stamos or anyone else to jump in and save him. This was just a song in a concert by The Beach Boys. What to do about the dropped video was their call. Not Uncle Jessie's. If it was their creative choice to sit around staring at their navels, then that was their choice. These guys are professionals.  This was their performance, Stamos was just along for the ride that night.  Someone was stage manager and the call was his to make. IMO, Stamos over stepped his place.

A very good thing that your opinion didn't count that night. Now, I know you would have let me drown.

Well, since none of our opinions actually count and we're all just pontificating anyway.... yeah. And, I wouldn't let you drown. I'd do this your way and send David Hasslehoff in to save you. He played a lifeguard on TV, you know.

And, to get back on topic... that's some drift we've got there. I just saw several Florida dates on the Brian/Jeff tour. I'm thinking of combining a beach trip with some Beach Boys tunes.

[HeyJude]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not. That would be the difference. Are we nitpicking? I dunno. If it had been any other "guest", it would have been more harshly criticized I would guess.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable. How many of those million hits are non-Beach Boys Stamos fans? "California Dreamin'" is a "Beach Boys" song, but I never went and bought all the Mamas and Papas albums because of it. Not the best analogy, but the point is that between fans of Stamos' "Forever" who were already BB fans, and fans of Stamos' "Forever" who largely simply care about him and not the BB's, I don't think he brought in a ton of fans who previously never heard of the BB's who then became huge BB fans buying a bunch of their albums and attending their shows regularly.

Saying Stamos brought the BB's more fans is like saying Michael Jackson brought McCartney more Beatles fans. Technically true surely, but how much more can you add to a huge fanbase? As I mentioned before, Stamos didn't help new albums sales for the BB's at all; "Summer in Paradise" tanked. So the area he could have helped them most was concert ticket sales, which the BB's have never had problems with since the 80's.

Bennett did not sing lead on  Forever on Summer in Paradise. And, he didn't work with Carl and the Band since the mid 1980's.  Stamos did.  He is what I'd call an "ancillary" Touring Band member.  And he is asked for, all the time.  He has his own fandom apart from the Band.

We can debate the additional fans and album sales, but I won't convince anyone, so won't expend the effort.

Name recognition is another story. The kids "know" who the Band is. Ask any politican about name recognition. See what they say about it.


Lifeguarding...the ticket through college and grad school.  Keeping clean with all that chlorine.  Sorry, I could not resist!

I don't think Stamos's cover version is particularly relevant. So if he had grabbed the lead on any other song, that wouldn't be okay? Sure, I'd say Stamos has been an auxiliary touring band member. Bennett ( or anybody else in that band) were full-fledged members, or whatever you want to call it.

Every time I've seen footage of Stamos in concert with the band, it reminds me of those concerts in the 90's when Mike and Al would invite their kids on stage. It's a distraction that's more enjoyable for the participants than the observers.

[Emdeeh]

Stamos did.  He is what I'd call an "ancillary" Touring Band member.

I tend to regard him as a recurring guest performer.

[Justin]

I was front row at that gig at the Beacon when John stepped in to sing "Forever."  It didn't appear as if a plan B was really set but Jeff was clearly visible trying to get Brian to sing the lead since the playback wasn't working.  Jeff looked in his direction, nodded with approval like saying "go ahead!"  and even pointed to his lips signaling Brian to sing but Brian didn't get the message and even appeared to ignore him.  The entire band was on autopilot and it looked as if they were all just expecting the engineers to fix the situation at any moment so they just continued on with their parts.  It looked as though no one wanted to particularly jump in because no one knew the lyrics well enough.  Perhaps Brian had the lyrics on his teleprompter which is why Jeff was nudging him to take over...but maybe not since Brian doesn't sing lead on it and there'd be no reason for the teleprompter to be on, I'm not sure.  I know David has performed the tune before but I'm not sure he was prepared to jump in at that moment...it just looked like no one knew what exactly to do.  Stamos was there, he knew the song, saw the band in trouble and jumped in.  Didn't think it was much of an issue at the time...and still don't.

[Emdeeh]

I was front row at that gig at the Beacon when John stepped in to sign "Forever."

I know that was just a typo, but now I'm having a vision of Stamos standing in the spotlight to the side of the stage doing ASL intrepretation, while the BBs are playing along to the Dennis video.  

[Pretty Funky]

This was pretty early in the C50 so I think it came before there was a plan B. I'm sure they were ready for a time it may happen again after that, just as Mike and Bruce would be during GOK this year.

[tpesky]

I'm the last person to be defending anything Stamos does with the BB but I think it's pretty hard to fault the guy for stepping in here. It was a reflex reaction, and a good move on his part. Although if you're a conspiracy theorist you would be in heaven because the one time the video on Forever didn't work JUST HAPPENED to be at a show Stamos was at. Mike and Stamos's grassy knoll..

[Sheriff John Stone]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science.  

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable.

But, on that night, Stamos was a part of the band. If he was asked to JOIN the band onstage for that particular date, and he JOINED THE BAND onstage, then he was part of the band. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, is it possible to use some common sense in judging Stamos' influence in bringing fans into the fold? Of course it's not measurable if you're talking about an exact figure. Do you think he brought in dozens of fans to The Beach Boys? I do. Do you think he brought hundreds of fans to The Beach Boys over the years? I do. Do you think he brought over a thousand or thousands of fans to The Beach Boys with his numerous TV shows, his concert appearances, and his vocal/performance of "Forever"? I do. How many fans do you think he "turned off" over the years? Using common sense I would say dozens. I don't think it's hundreds. In my opinion, I'd say those are pretty good numbers in his favor.

[Niko]

I was commissioned to write a song. Here's what I came up with.

Mike thinks he's twenty
And that he can get bitches aplenty
But he and Bruce are old and BAD
Not even talented enough to perform Aren't You Glad
They think they are the Beach Boys
Acting as stupid fat men's nostalgic joys
Playing at Seaworld for 3 goshdarn hours
Makes all Beach Boys fans need long hot showers

no hate

[HeyJude]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science.  

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable.

But, on that night, Stamos was a part of the band. If he was asked to JOIN the band onstage for that particular date, and he JOINED THE BAND onstage, then he was part of the band. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, is it possible to use some common sense in judging Stamos' influence in bringing fans into the fold? Of course it's not measurable if you're talking about an exact figure. Do you think he brought in dozens of fans to The Beach Boys? I do. Do you think he brought hundreds of fans to The Beach Boys over the years? I do. Do you think he brought over a thousand or thousands of fans to The Beach Boys with his numerous TV shows, his concert appearances, and his vocal/performance of "Forever"? I do. How many fans do you think he "turned off" over the years? Using common sense I would say dozens. I don't think it's hundreds. In my opinion, I'd say those are pretty good numbers in his favor.

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

As far as his impact on the band's popularity, the most measurable aspect to look at is album sales. It is a fact that the Beach Boys album released at the peak of his popularity and the peak of his association with the band, and the only group project to prominently feature him in any way, was the biggest bomb of their career. I could try to extrapolate from this that he actually injured the band, but even setting that aside, he didn't help the band beyond some general short term visibility that I don't believe ultimately helped in any career-altering way. He did injure the band's already dismal position as any sort of relevant band in terms of contemporary critical success.