If Smile had been released back in 1967...

[bsten]

...what would have come next?

 

[Denni]

...what would have come next?

 

Smile would have been a huge hit for the BB. Next...well an even bigger hit

[pixletwin]

The answer depends upon how much of a success SMiLE would have been...

I think had it flopped something akin to Wild Honey would have been next...

I had it been a success... who knows? I still think something like Wild Honey would have come next. The Beatles went back to a more stripped down sound, so perhaps The Beach Boys would have too... But then again, had SMiLE been a success perhaps it would have influenced the Beatles into a different direction and the two groups would have continued to play off each other.

[Mahalo]

We'd probably get CWTL, with a better TTGA.

[WaxOn]

Gee, who here has wondered that for the last 40 some odd years? 

Perhaps...
I think Pet Sounds was a bit too ahead of the time, but SMiLE might have been perfect coinciding with Sgt. Peppers. Even if not, it would have been huge in the UK and europe. The Beach Boys would have gone to Monterey, and been huge. Brian would have been pumped and continued on his experimental ways writing and producing incredible things. Mike would have conceded that this was indeed a valid new direction, in light of critical and popular acclaim (or left the group for solo efforts). An amazing volume of material would have come forth, changing popular music forever.

We'd all be flying hover-cars and living above the clouds, cancer would be cured and the world fed - peace in our time - all thanks to President Wilson.

But this is all conjecture, just like going back to anything in the past with a "what if" scenario! 

I'm just happy we'll be seeing SMiLE in some form.

[bsten]

Gee, who here has wondered that for the last 40 some odd years?  

Well, to-and-fro, so I thought it was time to brush the dust away...

I'm just happy we'll be seeing SMiLE in some form.

Me too!!!

I had it been a success... who knows? I still think something like Wild Honey would have come next. The Beatles went back to a more stripped down sound, so perhaps The Beach Boys would have too... But then again, had SMiLE been a success perhaps it would have influenced the Beatles into a different direction and the two groups would have continued to play off each other.

Yes, perhaps Sgt Pepper had taken another direction? Maybe Smile had influencenced other people/artists? Pet Sounds + Smile contains (-ed) some very intelligent music - could Brian top that? How far can a genious go before a breakdown? Something like Wild Honey seems reasonable. Look at the Beatles what happened. The albums following Sgt Pepper (and Penny Lane/SFF for that matter) were (IMHO) not in the same class.

For most of us fans Smile is the Holy Grail of music, but now, 40 years later, will it be marketed as such? Or will it be just another "Indie" release?

[OneEar/OneEye]

I believe a completed Smile at the end of 66, beginning of 67 would have had a big impact.   Some old fans may have been lost, but new ones would have been gained.   Not everyone would have liked it, but I don't believe it would have gone ignored in the states as Pet Sounds had been.  And it seems evident that the UK (where Pet Sounds wasn't ignored at all) was primed and ready for this.   As far as what music would have come after, who knows?  But the collaboration between Brian and Van Dyke might have continued.

[Mike's Beard]

.......... we all would have had to find something else to argue about on this board. 

[rab2591]

^

Brian wasn't even ready for this music. Pet Sounds was cohesive and beautiful. Smile, though beautiful is not cohesive. It's a jumble of ideas that try to hard to be unified. Sgt Pepper was acid-laced-bubble-gum-pop - thus it was a hit - it didn't try to be anything except for a concept album of a Lonely Heart's Club Band. Whereas SMiLE is about health, love, spirituality, heroes and villains, crows, psychological relationships, chinamen, and a bicycle ride from Plymouth to Hawaii. I'd venture to say that SMiLE would have been too confusing for the average listener and thus not a smash hit like Sgt Pepper.

Granted, I'd bet money that, just like with Pet Sounds in America, it would have gained massive popularity over time. But I really think it would have tarnished their image just as Smiley Smile actually did.

I say all this with absolutely zero first-hand experience of the teenage music scene in sixties US/UK....thus I'm probably 100% wrong in my theory.

[Curtis Leon]

We probably wouldn't have gotten Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl and the Passions, Holland, or Love You. With Brian still dominating the band, Carl and Dennis wouldn't have been so eager to step up as songwriters. It depends on how stressful the SMiLE sessions would've been on Brian's health had it been finished, though.

[roll plymouth rock]

...what would have come next?

 

Wasn't Brother Records set up so they could work on more 'interesting' material? I know I've read that Brian wanted to get into film, radio, not to mention his 'comedy' and 'water sounds' albums they mentioned....

[stack-o-tracks]

I think if SMiLE has been released that Brian would have been able to keep writing songs as prolifically as he was.

I'm not sure it could have trumped Sgt. Pepper in terms of success but it would have given Brian the motivation he needed to make Pet Sounds sound like a pile of puke. 

[onkster]

I think that, like most others 60s artists, there would have been a retreat towards something resembling SMILEY SMILE...maybe still using some leftover scraps, maybe some new stuff too.

Doing something simple and earthy instead of trying to out-SMILE SMILE would have been the thing to do. Better to make a left turn than drive yourself even more nuts going beyond the beyond...

[WaxOn]

The thing is - it would have been the first real concept album. It could have been the harbinger of  the progressive & art rock movement. The Moody Blues wouldn't come out with DOFP until the end of 1967.

I doubt the songs would have segued into each other the way BWPS does, but who knows. If even a few did, that would have been amazing.

I just remember that in the late 60's, stuff like Hendrix was doing was way, way out there. SMiLE would have made it not quite so much so at least stateside! Think of what already happened with pop music from just 1967 to 1973! Makes my head spin.

At any rate, the Beach Boys could have become something entirely different - maybe. Or, they would have collapsed under their own weight and become very much the same thing. It's hard to imagine that until only very recently, bands were literal slaves to the record labels. They might have been dropped for lack of a single and been even worse off.

And, who here back in the 60's or early 70's would think we'd be here discussing SMiLE being released in 2011, and what would happen if it were released in 1967? My brain hurts.

Anyway, I hope the release gets its due - I believe that BWPS was pretty well supported for an indie label - and universally adored by the critics. And, although it really made me pine for the real deal it's finally coming. I think it will get a big push for being the lost American treasure it is, and perhaps (and sadly) push the Beach Boys back into the limelight one last time. I'm sorry the brothers aren't here to see it all finally happen. They'd be delighted.

Time for my nap. 

[bgas]

I think if SMiLE has been released that Brian would have been able to keep writing songs as prolifically as he was.

I'm not sure it could have trumped Sgt. Pepper in terms of success but it would have given Brian the motivation he needed to make Pet Sounds sound like a pile of puke. 

IF SMiLE had come out, pre-Sgt Peppers, The Beatles( Minds blown by SMiLE) would have thrown their recordings to the wind and never released Pepper. 
And the Polar Ice Caps would still be frozen, and there wouldn't be any acid rain, and we wouldn't have landed on the moon, but would have gone on to mars, and, and, and, and,

[Don_Zabu]

Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks would've become a full-time writing partnership, and as a side project to The Beach Boys, they would start releasing albums under the name Wilson and Parks.

[rab2591]

Granted, sort of out of the time-frame by a dozen months...however, lately I wondered how awesome it would be if, after SMiLE, one of Brian's friends said: "Hey Brian, I hear you're looking for a new lyrical writing partner, this is Jim Morrison." and the two of them went to work on an album. At the time the The Doors album was released wasn't Morrison's favorite album Wild Honey?

Times like these I wish I had a way to get into that alternate universe where this did happen

[onkster]

Has Lewis Shiner weighed in on any of this? (Or perhaps Ray Shackleford?) 

[Mark H.]

I think we'd have Smile - then Wild Honey and so forth.  Brian's mental state was deteriorating irregardless of the music he made.

[Don_Zabu]

I think we'd have Smile - then Wild Honey and so forth.  Brian's mental state was deteriorating irregardless of the music he made.

-facepalm-

[Mike's Beard]

I'd say that if Smile had been a success it's likely Brian would have continued further down that musical path. Capital's faith in the band would have remained unshaken and they would have been more supportive of Brian's further musical experiments. More importantly Brian would still have had that confidence and desire in himself to push the musical boundaries.
If he'd completed Smile to his satisfaction only for it suffer the same fate as Pet Sounds, ie much critical acclaim but comparatively low sales, he may have concluded that The Beach Boys, pigeonholed by their past success and image had run their course and that a solo career might be the better option.
Of course if Brian had completed Smile, who's to know that he may not have overreached himself on a subsequent project?

[WaxOn]

I'm pretty sure that if SMiLE did see the light of day, Brian would have realized where he started to lose control of the project, and what he could do to pull things together faster the next time. He didn't have the luxury of the rest of the band helping or a George Martin.

I went through a creative period in my early 20's where I always pushed too far, in spite of knowing and being taught KISS (keep it simple, stupid).
Your brain knows no boundaries, but hasn't become acquainted with all the physics of reality quite yet.

After nearly losing my shirt a couple of times I got things sussed out!

I would also think that Brian would have done what a lot of successful artists have done - gone on to produce other bands. Since he wouldn't be touring, who knows! He very well might have been working with the Doors or Hendrix or...

[Jcc]

I wrote an alternate history once on this issue.  It's still bouncing around the internet somewhere.

My feeling was that if SMiLE had come out in 1967, it would have been a big hit.  Different..perhaps, but a fully realized production.  The surfer/endless summer fans would have dropped off, just like the Beatles lost a lot of their original 1964 Beatlemania fans (like my Mom, for instance) with Sergeant Pepper, but they would have found a whole host of new ones.  More importantly, the Beach Boys would have played Monterey, and their songs would have been played on FM radio, and they would have stayed relevant.

I also think that SMiLE would have been the last such ambitious work...though Wild Honey would have been a lot better and a lot more produced.  I also speculated that BW would still have had a mental breakdown (you can't keep away mental illness forever), which would have compromised Wild Honey a bit, but it would also have caused the group to begin taking a more active role in songwriting and production.  The only difference would be that the turmoil would ensue with a band still at its peak, rather than on a downward slope.

Basically, I had the group putting out a double album in 1968, touring in 1969, and then releasing one last great album (Landlocked) in 1970 before breaking up.   I took it all the way to 1981, and I guess you'll have to find it and read it to see the rest.

[bgas]

I wrote an alternate history once on this issue.  It's still bouncing around the internet somewhere.

My feeling was that if SMiLE had come out in 1967, it would have been a big hit.  Different..perhaps, but a fully realized production.  The surfer/endless summer fans would have dropped off, just like the Beatles lost a lot of their original 1964 Beatlemania fans (like my Mom, for instance) with Sergeant Pepper, but they would have found a whole host of new ones.  More importantly, the Beach Boys would have played Monterey, and their songs would have been played on FM radio, and they would have stayed relevant.

I also think that SMiLE would have been the last such ambitious work...though Wild Honey would have been a lot better and a lot more produced.  I also speculated that BW would still have had a mental breakdown (you can't keep away mental illness forever), which would have compromised Wild Honey a bit, but it would also have caused the group to begin taking a more active role in songwriting and production.  The only difference would be that the turmoil would ensue with a band still at its peak, rather than on a downward slope.

Basically, I had the group putting out a double album in 1968, touring in 1969, and then releasing one last great album (Landlocked) in 1970 before breaking up.   I took it all the way to 1981, and I guess you'll have to find it and read it to see the rest.

Point us in the right directi0on, then. as in,  address?

[Curtis Leon]

I wrote an alternate history once on this issue.  It's still bouncing around the internet somewhere.

My feeling was that if SMiLE had come out in 1967, it would have been a big hit.  Different..perhaps, but a fully realized production.  The surfer/endless summer fans would have dropped off, just like the Beatles lost a lot of their original 1964 Beatlemania fans (like my Mom, for instance) with Sergeant Pepper, but they would have found a whole host of new ones.  More importantly, the Beach Boys would have played Monterey, and their songs would have been played on FM radio, and they would have stayed relevant.

I also think that SMiLE would have been the last such ambitious work...though Wild Honey would have been a lot better and a lot more produced.  I also speculated that BW would still have had a mental breakdown (you can't keep away mental illness forever), which would have compromised Wild Honey a bit, but it would also have caused the group to begin taking a more active role in songwriting and production.  The only difference would be that the turmoil would ensue with a band still at its peak, rather than on a downward slope.

Basically, I had the group putting out a double album in 1968, touring in 1969, and then releasing one last great album (Landlocked) in 1970 before breaking up.   I took it all the way to 1981, and I guess you'll have to find it and read it to see the rest.

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