Brian has been placed in a conservatorship

[HeyJude]

I think Brian probably wasn't into writing "alone in a room" with Mike, for possibly personal reasons and also because that's wasn't his regular arrangement with all writers. I think he probably wanted to throw in-progress songs at collaborators and have them just add some stuff sometimes.

*But*, I do think it wouldn't have been the worse thing in the world to suck it up and write a few with Mike the way Mike wanted to do it (which, as I've said, would almost surely still have involved Brian bringing some partially-completed compositions to the room; I don't think he would have needed to literally conjure songs up from complete scratch). Or at least try. I honestly don't know how much Mike complained *during* the project about not getting to do it, or if he just saved the complaints for afterward.

It remains an open question as to whether taking a week or something to try to write "alone in the room" with Mike would have made Mike feel a lot better about the project.

As I mentioned before, I didn't want to turn it into another Mike gripe thread. I honestly think his complaint, *on its face* is not 100% invalid. I certainly would like to hear what Brian and Mike could have come up with. I'm not or wasn't convinced they had zero chance to do some good stuff.  That being said, I think the complaint has some subtext that goes beyond literally being perturbed he didn't write alone with Brian. I think that complaint springs from a large series of things he took issue with regarding the reunion. The whole thing went sour, and then a list of grievances began to take shape. Sort of like a couple breaking up and then listing off a bunch of stuff that weren't deal breakers but become part of the list of complaints in the aftermath. "And another thing, we always had to watch the movies HE liked!!!!"

[Rocker]

I had always assumed that "raise a glass to kindness" was a Joe Thomas line

Could be. Still sounds terrible. But it takes not away from my point that Mike just hasn't delivered the goods (regarding lyrics) that would make him the guy you would want to write lyrics for the songs.

As I mentioned before, I didn't want to turn it into another Mike gripe thread. I honestly think his complaint, *on its face* is not 100% invalid. I certainly would like to hear what Brian and Mike could have come up with. I'm not or wasn't convinced they had zero chance to do some good stuff.  That being said, I think the complaint has some subtext that goes beyond literally being perturbed he didn't write alone with Brian. I think that complaint springs from a large series of things he took issue with regarding the reunion. The whole thing went sour, and then a list of grievances began to take shape. Sort of like a couple breaking up and then listing off a bunch of stuff that weren't deal breakers but become part of the list of complaints in the aftermath. "And another thing, we always had to watch the movies HE liked!!!!"

"And you never paid for the drugs. Not once....."





 

[Chalk n Numbers]

At that point, Mike turned to her – I know this sounds like an over-the-top bit of corny dialog from a movie or TV show – and said “What am I, chopped liver?”

My late mother who was approximately the same age as ML used to like the. "What is .... ? Chopped liver?" line, too.  I believe it was popular slang when they came of age in the 1950s.  I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it.  Very often the line is uttered ironically, without malice, in a self-deprecating way  Sure, on some level Mike msy have bee slightly resentful of a situation in which he perceived that a Brian-adulating fan was ignoring him but he was very likely just trying to be funny.

Oh, no question, it was a common phrase back in the day; I’m quite familiar with it. Mike’s remark was pure old-fashioned borscht belt humor – like the little digs the two lead characters toss around in The Sunshine Boys. But in my experience that kind of comment, played for laughs on the surface, always has a core of seriousness inside it; in fact, I think you can make the argument that it depends, for its full effect, on that little bit of “edge.” Every time I heard it used, at a family gathering or social function, the speaker was making a point as well as a joke.

It seems to me that you would offer it up only if you were already looking for a slight; it's not as if Mike was being ostentatiously ignored. And I can tell you that while it was obviously a species of witticism, it wasn’t delivered in an especially good-natured way; and nobody within earshot (including Al and David) reacted with a laugh or a smile.

I guess (as those same borscht belt comedians might have said): you had to be there.

[Lonely Summer]

It seems that the whole reunion thing was rushed. They should have taken more time on the album, allow for more involvement from Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. Instead, what we got was essentially a latter day BW album with Beach Boy vocals on it.
They also should have spent more time rehearsing the new songs, integrating them into the live show.
When was the last time any of the touring bands played TWGMTR songs? It's an album they all seemed to forget about quickly.

[HeyJude]

It seems that the whole reunion thing was rushed. They should have taken more time on the album, allow for more involvement from Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. Instead, what we got was essentially a latter day BW album with Beach Boy vocals on it.
They also should have spent more time rehearsing the new songs, integrating them into the live show.
When was the last time any of the touring bands played TWGMTR songs? It's an album they all seemed to forget about quickly.

In a “normal” scenario where there wasn’t always the fear that the entire thing could fall apart in the blink of an eye, yes, they should have taken more time.

But the reality is that the whole reunion project had a lot of stops and starts even on the accelerated timeline (I don’t think a lot of the backroom stops and starts have even been discussed; it’s beyond just the issues Mike brought up in his book), and if there was no ability to stop and take time. Mike was literally hitting “pause” on his own touring deal to do this, and he didn’t have a ton of time off the road after his 2011 tour dates ended in order to even *record* parts for an album, let alone start *writing* stuff from scratch. Indeed, I think Mike actually did at least one gig with his own “Beach Boys” band in 2012 *before* the reunion tour started.

I think the only way we were even going to get what we did in 2012 was with Joe Thomas and Capitol and the tour apparatus literally *pushing* these guys out the door as quickly as possible to get it done.

I think, given the amount of time they had, they pulled the album off pretty well (it’s not like “Summer in Paradise” or “Still Cruisin’” felt *more* collaborative), and even more so with the tour. They did an excellent job of bridging the gap between Brian and Mike’s band, both in terms of musicians as well as setlist and arrangement choices. And it did evolve as the tour went on; they added more songs and changed more songs up.

Had they continued in 2013, I think the live show could have gotten *even better*. We could have gotten a full “Beach Boys” live version of “Pet Sounds” for instance.

As for TWGMTR tracks on subsequent tours, I believe Mike kept doing “Isn’t It Time” with his own band for some late 2012 dates (and possibly into 2013?), and that was it for Mike. Brian did “That’s Why God Made the Radio” and "Summer's Gone" on his first short tour with Al and Dave in 2013 (they also briefly brought back “Your Imagination!”), but they got dropped from most setlists when they had to shorten his setlist for the 2013 joint Jeff Beck tour (I think "TWGMTR" still made it into a few of the joint Beck shows). And then Brian did “Pacific Coast Highway” and “Summer’s Gone” for that one 2014 gig at the Venetian for PBS.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

As for TWGMTR tracks on subsequent tours, I believe Mike kept doing “Isn’t It Time” with his own band for some late 2012 dates (and possibly into 2013?), and that was it for Mike. Brian did “That’s Why God Made the Radio” and "Summer's Gone" on his first short tour with Al and Dave in 2013 (they also briefly brought back “Your Imagination!”), but they got dropped from most setlists when they had to shorten his setlist for the 2013 joint Jeff Beck tour (I think "TWGMTR" still made it into a few of the joint Beck shows). And then Brian did “Pacific Coast Highway” and “Summer’s Gone” for that one 2014 gig at the Venetian for PBS.

Mike's Beach Boys did "Isn't It Time" sporadically through 2013; I see June and July clips on YouTube. Even back then, let alone today, I thought the context re Mike and TWGMTR made it a really weird choice ("hey, you know that album I keep dissing constantly for some reason? Well, here's the song you want to hear from it!").

Had they continued in 2013, I think the live show could have gotten *even better*. We could have gotten a full “Beach Boys” live version of “Pet Sounds” for instance.

That's a bit poignant and painful to think about, and you're absolutely right.

Tying your last few paragraphs together, I was at the NYC Brian/Jeff Beck show in 2013, when Brian shocked all of us by announcing he and band would play the entire Pet Sounds album. They did, and it was amazing! Now imagine the roof blowing off the place if that had been announced at an **actual full lineup Beach Boys reunion concert**. Damn.

[Pretty Funky]

Yes a missed step for sure. 2013 could have been built around a ‘Beach Boys Present Pet Sounds Live’ tour similar to Brian and Al’s 2016 tour.

[Wirestone]

The album and tour were outstanding. We were lucky to receive what we got.

The only downside was the lack of a definitive filmed document of a show, but you can’t have everything. In hindsight, I think I choose to draw the curtain of my fandom there.

[HeyJude]

The album and tour were outstanding. We were lucky to receive what we got.

The only downside was the lack of a definitive filmed document of a show, but you can’t have everything. In hindsight, I think I choose to draw the curtain of my fandom there.

Some peculiar stuff went on regarding additional video/film documents of the tour. The Hollywood Bowl show was supposedly shot in *3D* for a prospective theatrical release that never happened. The Red Rocks show was supposedly shot by a full video crew (beyond the normal in-house video stuff).

Then there was that tour documentary/video project that was done through a Kickstarter-like service called "Pledge Music", where a lot of us contributed money only to see the whole thing canceled around a year later (though everybody did get a refund). I recall somebody doing some sleuthing on that project and found that some of the people tied into it had had other legal/business problems.

All of this in addition to many if not most shows on the tour surely being captured by in-house video.

And of course the ideal scenario would be to get the second-to-last date at the Royal Albert Hall on video, as that was the gig where they did a full 61-song setlist featuring every song that had been performed on tour. It's unclear how much of a full-blown pro shoot was done for that, but it was shot in some capacity based on the camera mounts on the mic stands, etc.

Second best scenario would probably be the final night at Wembley, where they did a nearly-complete setlist with around 55 songs, and that one was surely captured as it was put up on the video screens.

Unfortunately, the sync rights to clearing 61 songs for a video release would dictate a Blu-ray of it would probably need to cost $100 (which of course *I'd* gladly pay).

In a pinch, I wouldn't even mind just getting all of whatever gig it was that the used for that 21-song "In Concert" Blu-ray (was it one of the Arizona gigs?).

As it stands now, the longest available pro-shot document of the C50 tour is the Japan gig that was shown on Japanese TV, and even that one only seems to circulate in not-so-great SD despite being shot and broadcast in full HD, and it *still* wasn't the full show.

But it would be nice to get a nice 3-CD "Complete" audio document of the tour at least, and any audio releases from that tour would not be cost prohibitive.

I have to wonder if some of the projects stalling out might have to do with Mike souring on Joe Thomas for whatever reason, because I'm guessing that Joe is a 1/3 business partner in most if not all of the reunion-related projects, including pro-shot videos of gigs.

Ironically, we're at a point in BB history where Mike is probably more enthusiastic about issuing 70s material than more material from 2012.

[HeyJude]

Yes a missed step for sure. 2013 could have been built around a ‘Beach Boys Present Pet Sounds Live’ tour similar to Brian and Al’s 2016 tour.

Yeah, that 50th anniversary tour band was, as was put back then, an "embarrassment of riches." Brian's band plus the best from Mike's band.

And I'll always be grateful it happened.

But while it does no good to dwell on it, part of the history of the saga will always be how the greatness of that tour and reunion were pissed away, and we all knew that things would not be in good enough shape for them to try it again TEN years later for a 60th. And sure enough, subsequently, Brian's not in touring shape, and frankly Mike's sounding pretty rough at his gigs. Multiple people from the backing band have passed away, others have left or been let go. Obviously, this is partly just a consequence of time. But it's worth noting that as of the second half of last year, there is essentially *nobody* from that amazing 50th anniversary band currently touring in a band on any sort of regular basis playing BB music. Totten and Cowsill aren't with Mike anymore, and of course Brian isn't touring anymore, so his guys aren't out there. Al sometimes uses Probyn for his gigs, but Al is only doing a gig here and there.

Some sort of "The Brian Wilson Band" with Al fronting it could have worked, and I think still could, but I think even the time for *that* may have passed, if it was ever logistically or financially feasible in the first place.

Thankfully, the excellent archival releases over the last several years have been the deserved focus of the best that the "Beach Boys" brand still has to offer.

[Awesoman]

Not trying to start a Mike thread here, truly, but that article was interesting in that it's fascinating that Mike is still so sour, in fact seemingly *more* sour, on the "That's Why God Made the Radio" album now. I get his gripes, and I don't even disagree with all of them. It would have probably done the project a bit of long-term good to have just placated Mike and had he and Brian write a few tunes "from scratch."

But it's strange to have that specific perspective on that album. It clearly was made the way it was in large part because they didn't have a ton of time to finish it. And it's not as if there aren't other Beach Boys albums with *even fewer* Brian/Mike from-scratch collabs.

It almost feels like Mike is less perturbed that the album ended up with less Brian/Mike from-scratch co-writes, and more upset specifically that he feels like he was promised or strongly led to believe, at some point I guess, that the album would be focused around Brian/Mike co-writes. It's peculiar, because it sure seems like by the time they actual got the record deal, it was clear Capitol was signing them based on the bag of Brian/Joe songs, and also that given the amount of time they had to actually record the album, they would have to use those pre-existing songs as the basis for most of the album.

Again, not trying to inflame or stir the pot. I genuinely find this stuff fascinating, especially in light of things on a number of other fronts being relatively cooled off and amiable between the group members, and in terms of their feelings on individual subjects.

Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way he feels.  But considering that the album turned out far better than it had any reason to be and ended the band's recording history on a great note, Mike is probably looking at this the wrong way. 

And I believe things worked out well the way they went.  Following the 50th reunion Brian put out a pretty satisfying solo album with No Pier Pressure and Mike himself became quite prolific putting out several better-than-expected solo albums as well as a Christmas album.  And Al's doing OK continuing to perform and occasionally release a never-ending parade of reworked versions of "Waves Of Love". 

So while the reunion wasn't perfect and ended a little bumpy (which should always be expected with this band), I can't really complain with the way things went.

[Zenobi]

I think that what happened in 2012 is nothing short of a miracle, and we should all be grateful to Joe for having such an important role in that... whatever I, and some other people, may think of his production style.
Sure, it did not end so well, but I agree that it was only to be expected from our sublime but ever dysfunctional Beach Boys.

[HeyJude]

The latest on the situation. Nothing unexpected, and it sounds like everybody is on the same page and in agreement:

https://apnews.com/article/brian-wilson-conservatorship-beach-boys-be53d427864ea9a32d3b4d438625683e

The "TL/DR": The conservatorship has been granted, and everybody seems to be on the same page, including all children (including Carnie and Wendy). There are a few details in the article based on a court-appointed attorney who visited with Brian. It's about what you would expect given what we know. It's definitely a "could be better, but could be worse" kind of situation.

Sounds like all business and personal/medical affairs are as taken care of as they possibly could be, based on the information we have of course.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

The latest on the situation. Nothing unexpected, and it sounds like everybody is on the same page and in agreement:

https://apnews.com/article/brian-wilson-conservatorship-beach-boys-be53d427864ea9a32d3b4d438625683e

The "TL/DR": The conservatorship has been granted, and everybody seems to be on the same page, including all children (including Carnie and Wendy). There are a few details in the article based on a court-appointed attorney who visited with Brian. It's about what you would expect given what we know. It's definitely a "could be better, but could be worse" kind of situation.

Sounds like all business and personal/medical affairs are as taken care of as they possibly could be, based on the information we have of course.

Honestly, that was a tough read. Oof. But yeah, it is what it is, and could certainly be worse. Thanks for the update.

[Rocker]

Also from CNN:


Brian Wilson, Beach Boys co-founder, to be placed under conservatorship, judge rules


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/entertainment/beach-boys-brian-wilson-conservatorship-judge-rules-intl-scli/index.html

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

As one of the younger members of the board, I have been thinking a lot about the recent events with Brian. How I feel about them, why I feel how I feel... etc.

Obviously, this is sad news. Horrible news. I wish Brian could be in his 20s forever and make music for the world until we somehow manage to destroy it.

On the other hand, there is a huge feeling of privilege on my part. I understand how lucky I was to get to grow up with the Beach Boys like many of you did... to get to see Brian live many times, experience Smile's archival release, the 2012 reunion and album...

Three of my four Grandparents left us at a younger age than Brian is now, my most recent loss saw my Grandfather suffering with the same situation Brian is in now with his diagnosis. I'm lucky to still have a fantastic Grandmother to spend my time with, and I feel the same way about Brian. Very very lucky that I got to experience all these great memories. I hope he can find some joy in whatever he has left.

I know he probably won't be making much of any music anymore, it'd be a fair assumption. He's given us so damn much.
Really complex emotions, but I suppose I am trying to stay positive with such negative news in the past year.

[Rocker]

Someone send this to me and I don't know where to post it:


Beach Boys reunion teased as Mike Love, 83, and Bruce Johnson, 81, let plans slip


https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/us-celebrity-news/breaking-beach-boys-reunion-teased-32808496?

[HeyJude]

Someone send this to me and I don't know where to post it:


Beach Boys reunion teased as Mike Love, 83, and Bruce Johnson, 81, let plans slip


https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/us-celebrity-news/breaking-beach-boys-reunion-teased-32808496?

I think it's safe to assume that this couldn't be about anything more than possibly being in the same room/place at some point, as opposed to any actual "reunion" activity.

[Tony S]

W/O Brian it wouldn't be much of a reunion.

[Pretty Funky]

Love told Radio 4: “He (Wilson) knows that he needs the help but we’re still able to get together and we‘re going to see each other soon.
"It’s not so negative as it sounds. As long as he’s cared for properly. He’s seeing his children… he’s being well taken care of.”
Bruce Johnston, another Beach Boys member, said he felt the documentary was like "a new beginning".
He added: "I think once Brian and Mike sit round the piano and just the magic, you can’t stop it”.
Love said they hadn’t had a chance to collaborate yet but “it’s a brand new day now and I’m hoping we can do something together - all of us - and it’ll be great”.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2vww4eqp7yo

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

still talking about sitting around that piano...

[HeyJude]

I've never had a problem with the idea of Mike trying to write again with Brian.

I think over the years Mike would seem to sometimes be more into *talking* about it than actually trying to do it.

But as a concept, how could anybody not at least wonder what they could come up with if they tried?

The problem is that this became a sort of sticking point or talking point for Mike surrounding the aftermath of the reunion project, and I think most fans tend to feel the way I do, which is that Mike and Brian collaborating is a great idea, but it shouldn't be what doing an album or a tour is contingent on. And, to be fair, I don't think it ever was. I don't think Mike not getting to write with Brian was *the* reason the reunion fell apart. That's a much more complicated story of course.

As for *now*, I think that's a big open question with not a lot of potential affirmative outcomes. As best as I can tell, Brian is probably in a state where he can still "do" music. What exactly that might entail, I don't think we know. It's been well documented that even people with degenerative/cognitive issues can continue to sing and play to a surprisingly high standard. We've seen this with examples like Glen Campbell and Tony Bennett. But that seemed to, as far as I can tell, entail performing old "standards" that were very ingrained/etched into their musical memory. So with Brian, if I had to guess, I think for quite some time he'll probably be able to remember and sing and play tons of songs when he's having a good day. But can he (or does he want to) write new songs, or even workshop incomplete or old compositions? I don't know. Maybe Brian doesn't know.

What I do know is that, even going back over the last 25+ years, Brian has needed a sympathetic, empathetic writing partner that knows how to work with Brian, who knows how to capture and take note of what he puts down. It sometimes might entail, as Joe Thomas apparently did in the late 90s, taping numerous short-form, maybe sometimes stream-of-consciousness pieces that might be able to be further refined, compiled, etc. And *that* type of process is not something that seems to have ever been something that Mike Love can facilitate. In other words, *if* Brian is in good enough shape these days to have a good day where he could sit down with Mike and riff on some stuff an "see what happens", they'd probably need a third person there, either during or certainly after, to refine what they do. I'm sure someone like Darian could do this.

To be clear, I'm trying to stay open minded and not make any assumptions one way or the other about Brian's condition. I'm not putting my head in the sand about any of this. I think it's possible that Brian's just not in good enough shape to do anything like this. That time may have passed. And, I don't even know how I feel about the idea of just taping Brian's every moment at a piano for the rest of his life and like having someone else try to stitch together things from that. But I'm open to the idea that he perhaps has good days where musical things could still happen.

[Zenobi]

Congrats for unraveling so well such a complex subject! You actually helped me to understand what I think of it.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Agreed, all good thoughts, HeyJude.

I posted this in another thread, but here's the Joe Thomas interview where he talks about how he and Brian developed ideas for the TWGMTR album:

https://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

The process with Joe Thomas and Brian here sounds very much like what you describe... Joe kind of rolling with an open-ended, abstract, at times even slightly absurd process, helping to tease out Brian's ideas that might take weeks or months or years to fully develop. Kind of catching these little drops of magic where he can, and going wherever Brian's creative process goes, whatever that ends up looking like.

Mike is -- to put it mildly! -- not known for this kind of empathy and flexibility. And a process that sounds to Brian like "you and Mike are going to work together on Day X when he's not touring, and you'll go into a room at X time and come out with X number of songs" is certainly going to feel high-pressure, unnatural, and about a million miles removed from what Brian's comfortable with.

If it didn't happen organically or to Mike's satisfaction during the 2012 tour, it seems very, *very* unlikely to happen now.

[guitarfool2002]

Agreed, all good thoughts, HeyJude.

I posted this in another thread, but here's the Joe Thomas interview where he talks about how he and Brian developed ideas for the TWGMTR album:

https://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

The process with Joe Thomas and Brian here sounds very much like what you describe... Joe kind of rolling with an open-ended, abstract, at times even slightly absurd process, helping to tease out Brian's ideas that might take weeks or months or years to fully develop. Kind of catching these little drops of magic where he can, and going wherever Brian's creative process goes, whatever that ends up looking like.

Mike is -- to put it mildly! -- not known for this kind of empathy and flexibility. And a process that sounds to Brian like "you and Mike are going to work together on Day X when he's not touring, and you'll go into a room at X time and come out with X number of songs" is certainly going to feel high-pressure, unnatural, and about a million miles removed from what Brian's comfortable with.

If it didn't happen organically or to Mike's satisfaction during the 2012 tour, it seems very, *very* unlikely to happen now.

The part of this which is hard to figure out in terms of Mike writing with Brian is that when reading through the Joe Thomas interview, Brian and Mike DID write together, and as others have said, in a way that's more in line with their previous successful collaborations like California Girls and Good Vibrations than Mike's ideal "room with a piano" scenario, or starting something from scratch. I don't know if Mike is/was looking for something to gripe about, or just bitching for the sake of it, but the Thomas interview clearly states that Mike and Brian co-wrote those songs mentioned, in the way they had done before. It goes against some of Mike's claims in subsequent years that he wasn't allowed to write with Brian, or whatever his claims were.

And I've also found through the years that those people writing here and elsewhere on the topic of songwriting and collaboration seem to have no direct experience either collaborating on an original song, working up a song and recording it in the studio, or other hands-on elements of creating original music. It's something Nik Venet even touched on during his testimony in court for the song credits legal case in the early 90's, and how the nature of making songs and making records is a unique process that involves ideas being thrown around sometimes randomly and haphazardly in order to create a finished song. If people have not experienced that process, and only take certain comments from books or interviews at face value thereby idealizing or simplifying the whole process, they miss most of the point.

If what Joe described isn't Brian and Mike working on songs together, i.e. "collaborating" to create finished songs, then someone needs to explain that one to me.