SMILE Archeology (the activity; not the boot) Questions

[The_Holy_Bee]

Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first time poster (since 2004 or so, which may have been the Smile Shop board then). It was a great thrill to return in May-ish when all the TSS excitment was starting and still see occasional posts from MattB, Cam Mott and others I remember as being responsible for fascinating and elucidating posts "back in the day". Though a relative newbie to SMiLE - 1997-8 and the early days of the internet - the upcoming box is still the manifestation of an overwhelming personal obsession of almost fifteen years standing, and every droplet of new info is so engrossing I'm almost a bit sorry the box is going to be released so soon! (If for some reason it now doesn't I'm happy to accept a small part of the psychic blame.)

But enough biography. One of the things I've been reminded of since returning to the boards/SMiLE as an active interest is the sheer wealth of info about the album available from different sources. I try not to listen to too many fan-mixes (I have my own, natch) because as we've all observed on these boards the mind is quite capable of playing tricks and a second-hand theory evolving, over time, into unattributed first-hand fact. But what I was surprised by was how many of the late 60's- mid 70's articles so generously scanned for the "Print" section have potentially revealing quotes and snippets about SMiLE, often offhand but not usually contradictory, many of them from the band not too long (5 years) after the fact. (For instance, Mike describes in one article the pieces of Surf's Up he believes were recorded as of, I believe, '69.) And those scanned articles don't even include the Williams-Anderle interviews or "Goodbye Surfing" (is the Fusion piece there? I can't remember seeing it).

Anyway, my fiance is doing a Masters in Anthropology and in putting together her thesis has made an enormous spreadsheet in which over a dozen relevant issues (she's studying how Policy is made by political parties, so you can imagine the scope for relevant issues) are cross-sectioned with who said them and when. I believe that referencing is a major issue in SMiLE discussion - ie. we'll all remember basically what Brian said, but not necessarily when those quotes hail from, and if we're talking, say, H&V, the difference between August and Dec '66 actually does matter - and using the raw contemporary data in the "Print" section I was thinking about taking a similar approach with the first hand sources.

All of which is preamble to an admission and a query. Admission: I don't own LLVS, but I realise it's a must-purchase anyway, and especially as a base for a project like this. My question is, I'm aware there are a wide range of cuttings and clips reprinted in LLVS - are the majority of these dated and attributed? Is anyone able to give me a run-down of the major articles included? (For instance, is the famous Anderle-Williams interview from Crawdaddy, which I believe is called "A Celebration of Wild Honey"? I know it's also available in "How Deep is the Ocean".) And, most importantly, is what I'm suggesting a new-ish idea, or does this resource already exist somewhere and the whole thing redundant?

Finally, as a more specific aside, the two-part "Still Waters Run Deep" article from '76 has a SMiLE section which gives the Elements as "Love to Say Dada (Water)", Veggies as Earth, MOLC as Fire and GV as Air - anyone know where this breakdown hails from? Early fan scholarship, or from someone in the BBs camp? It's presented very directly as fact, and the inclusion of "Home on the Range" and "Bicycle Rider" as tracks (they're listed as separate songs in several late sixties - mid seventies articles that mention SMiLE) implies the author didn't see the Capitol memo and is going either from someone's memory or tape boxes (or both). The first comps didn't escape till the Priess book was being researched, right?

[Cam Mott]

Hi THB.

Like a timeline. That's a good idea.

I wish someone would do it with the all the available tracks, I bet it would be illuminating.

[Dunderhead]

I too don't own LLVS. The shame!

[guitarfool2002]

Welcome back! A great topic for sure. Just to touch on a few points briefly, the first comps were as far as I know sourced from "The Preiss Tape" and whatever descriptions are in his book are the Smile tracks which leaked...same with the other unreleased titles.

The problem with Priess is that there is no context given with the quotes. As enlightening as they can be, they're not dated, placed into context, or in any way identified as coming from a particular source. For example, one of the biggest quotes pertaining to Smile was Brian's quote on "Air", as a "piano piece" that went unfinished. No date given, no context...and how different is the weight of a Smile related quote from Brian dating from 1968, 1971, versus 1977, for example? It wasn't until later, on the Smile Shop board, that the quote was confirmed from when Brian was at MIU with the band in the later 70's.

Same thing with Vosse's Fusion quotes: Some turn up in the Preiss book, yet there is no context. And it was not reprinted in any form in LLVS, the original pressing I have at least. A crucial, essential interview/article for Smile, as important as Williams/Anderle and coming within 2 years or so of the actual events, again like Williams/Anderle. Time would not dull the memory or the perceptions within 2 years as much as 40. Other substances might dull them, perhaps, but not time...

LLVS, again it's essential. But there are clippings and news articles which have no date or context, which can be misleading. It was not until I saw or read the original magazines or fanzines (or radio magazines) which had the originals that I was able to better put them in context with the times. As you suggested, something written in November 1966 would be different than something written in April '67. It's important to the story to contextualize certain points, like mention of Heroes, Vegetables as a single, etc.

And a lot of the Smile theories, as the one you've suggested with the elements, seem to be random notions of what someone thinks it was...and the someones are usually not named Brian or Van Dyke. Even Vosse and Anderle in their respective comments had no idea what certain "elements" were to have been, including Air, and someone like Vosse was at Brian's side for much of the Smile process...if he didn't know in 1969, how would a journalist know a few decades later that it was a specific song?

Williams/Anderle is reprinted in full in LLVS, as is Jules Siegel "Goodbye Surfing...", Vosse's Teen Set piece but not "Fusion", and several other smaller accounts like Tom Nolan's LA newspaper piece.

One other point learned much later and after a lot of study and searching was that some of the studio photos in LLVS are tagged with incorrect dates. There are threads on this board from the summer where a few specific photos were dissected and ID'ed in much more detail and more accurate than previous publications of the same shots had been. And it does put a new spin on a few periods of time.

One specific example was the film clip of BW in the studio, with a firehat, as seen several other places. yet, off to the side, the film shows Van Dyke Parks there, at Western #3, wearing a firehat as well! It puts a twist on some previous assumptions about Van Dyke's involvement and participation, and it a new look at an old clip.

I'm rambling a bit and my Phillies are on TV so I'll cut out, but I hope something in there addressed your post.

Great stuff so far, thanks for opening up the discussion!

[The_Holy_Bee]

Thanks Cam, and guitarfool for your advice - very useful, thank you.

EDIT: (A timeline is) more or less what I'm planning, though probably in tabular form. Track by track but also the other key issues - the state of completion at various times, reasons for the project's collapse, attempts to revive it, etc. But yes, each quote dated, referenced and in chronological order in each category. It'd be fascinating to see how much the consensus changes from during or just after - '67, '68 - to how the players remembered it ten years later. I'd suggest on my initial reading that actually most reports are pretty consistent at least through the seventies.

The actual method would be very simple, just time consuming. Amass all available articles, interviews, promotional material, print out and highlight the pertinent sections. Set up a spreadsheet as suggested above and retype those passages into it in attributed order. How people then choose to interpret that data is then up to them, but the - I guess - academic rigor of the exercise should make it easier to keep things straight, and perhaps paint a different picture of what was intended and what was actually recorded or preserved.

Let's take the early intentions for "H&V" as an example. We've got one debated but firsthand source - the Humble Harv demo - for those intentions in late '66. But there are at least two other mentions in period articles to a "Barnyard" section being a part of that song in a completed mixdown. Now, whether or not one believes - as I do - that Barnyard itself was a closing section of H&V in its original (or at least an early) state, and those articles are evidence for that argument, or one wants to argue the references are vague enough to refer to the "OMP" or Cantina fades instead, at least we've got a very clear and ordered assembly of the printed facts as they were reported at the time.

And yeah, I'm more than happy to act as researcher on this one. The liner notes of the box may well help to unravel some of these mysteries, but it's almost irrelevant to what I'm planning (and, indeed, as what I'm suggesting is as much about the way plans and perceptions changed, it could make a useful accompaniment to book as well). Referring to my earlier post, I'm assuming LLVS is the one obvious and vital collection of period documentation to begin with (as well as this board's fantastic resources too, of course)? I'm happy to buy one, but my credit card's taken a pretty big hit BBs-wise of late so if anyone was able to provide a spare copy or scans of relevant pages that would let me get started. Otherwise I can just wait until the Box is out to begin.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Sorry, just rereading guitarfool's excellent post (which I only saw just as I was submitting my message above). Sounds like LLVS, while essential, might not be ideal for what I'm attempting, as dates etc are the sum and substance of the approach I want to take. Does anybody have any scans of articles from the original mags (from, say '66 to '78) that don't feature in the "Print" section on the board? Please send me a PM if so - am quite looking forward to getting started, actually, but want to make sure I'm being as comprehensive as possible, and any assistance in this area will be hugely appreciated! Of course anything I manage to put together will be posted here for everyone's interest/use.

And as I haven't said it before; I may not post very often but I was surprised just how upset I was when I thought the board was gone for good. So relieved it's back, not just at this very exciting time but for the future, even when things are quiet. I'm going to make more of an effort to keep up to date with the larger conversations happening even when the box is long in the public realm and we other discussions take precedence. It's only been due to the passion and enthusiasm of the posters here and on the old board that I really moved from PS and SMiLE into the wonderful weirdness of later BB eras. And, just to add my vote - Love You is absolutely my favourite released BBs record, even if it clearly isn't the "best" of them. It's just wonderful. Or, indeed "Wonderful".