Blondie Chaplin to Guest with BW on Some Dates

[SurfRiderHawaii]

If Mike's comments about paying $11m to BRI between 1998 and 2005 are accurate then presumably Brian, Al and Carl's estate have earned around $5m each by now.

As Mike currently seems fit and healthy and will want to tour for a while to come, they would be killing the golden goose to stop that.

11 million over a 7 year period? Wow,  that is a lot less than I would have figured. That averages out to $1.57 million paid to BRI per year. After taxes and expenses, that is $235, 500 annually to each of the 4. After state taxes, that is like $125, 000 annually. Not a super cash cow for Brian and Al at all. Great deal for Mike! He does work hard for it, gotta give him that.

[runnersdialzero]

Naw, Al's a total slackass. Al "Slackass" Jardine, they'll call him. Take that, Al "Slackass" Jardine.

[Robbie Mac]

I highly doubt he plays enough shows with those guys to stay busy. This is a guy who, from 1963 to  early 1998 (except for the brief period when Summer in Paradise was being made) who was a full touring member of the Beach Boys and he had that unceremoniously taken away from him.  If you were in Al's shoes, wouldn't you miss that and be angry that you were kicked out in such a fashion?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

In a recent thread, these cases were well discussed. In addition, links to the lawsuits, including the rulings, were posted. I read each and every one and not one mention of any fees/% were given. I am not saying you are wrong but your "well documented" is not something one can hang your hat on. Cane you give one single reference for this documentation?

Edit: Here's an article I stumbled upon. http://www.pricingforprofit.com/pricing-strategy-blog/what-s-value-beach-boys-brand.htm

'Here’s what I found: “The Beach Boys” is a registered trademark of Brothers Record Inc (BRI), which is a corporate entity equally owned (25% shares) by Brian Wilson, the estate of Carl Wilson, Mike Love, and Al Jardine. In 1998, after the death of Carl Wilson and amidst dissension in the band, BRI met to decide how “The Beach Boys” trademark should be used. As a result of this meeting, Mike Love agreed to pay a royalty on all of his gross concert revenues for the right to tour as “The Beach Boys.” C’mon, take a guess at how much the royalty rate is…Mr. Love agreed to pay a 20% royalty on the first $1 million in gross receipts and a 17.5% royalty thereafter. WOW…20% right off the top (before expenses)! I was surprised - that’s a lot of money especially since concert touring expenses are so high: managers and agents take percentages, it’s expensive to travel with a large band, and sound/light systems are costly. Of course, since Mike Love owns 25% of BRI, the net royalty he pays is 15%...but still, quite pricey.

Mike Love is a hard worker; at age 66 he performs approximately 150 live concerts per year globally (here’s a sample tour rider). As a result, both he and BRI have profited handsomely. Care to guess how much in total he has paid in royalties to tour as “The Beach Boys?” In a 2005 law suit, Mike contends that between 1998 and 2005, he paid over 11 million dollars in royalties to BRI. This means he has received gross payments of over 55 million dollars to sing “The Beach Boys” classic hits. It’s nice to be Mike Love.'

I think this confirms that Brian makes bucketloads from M&B's touring.

Yeah, and Al too. Al gets paid big time for Mike to sing Brian's songs.

That's pretty good work if you can get it.

Yes it is.

But what if Al, you know, actually wanted to, you know WORK for that and not just have it handed to him for nothing. Some people do want to be able to earn their keep.

Well, that's extra money on top of what Al makes himself touring with Dave and Dean Torrence. Al stays busy.

It's a fortune to me but I think BAD-BC could make a hella of a lot more with a BB license. Not Al's only income sure. But I bet he makes more on other BRI income that he does on touring.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Really, Mike seems to be the only person keeping Brian and co. from touring as the Beach Boys.  I mean, Brian and Al seem like they'd rather be touring the Beach Boys with the C50 lineup (which they basically are minus Mike, Bruce, Scott Totten, and John Cowsill) but Mike doesn't want to do it under Brian's conditions.  I think it's less than about money and licensing and more about Mike's integrity.  Mike would love if Brian, Al, and Dave joined his touring Beach Boys, otherwise keeping things the way they are but it's not that simple.  Brian needs his band with him and his own posse and maybe Mike feels violated by that in some way, that they become less of a band and more Brian Wilson and his Beach Boys.  After the tour ended, Brian said he felt like he was being fired but maybe Mike felt the same way when the tour started.  That after nearly a decade and a half of leading the group and doing things his way, he was demoted to being Brian's sideman.  It was too much for him and since he had the ability to go back to the way things were, that's the way he went.  It sucks but I think it makes sense.

[Mike's Beard]

Would Brian himself consider the band to be The Beach Boys without Mike? Something tells me he wouldn't.

[leggo of my ego]

Keep preaching Mr. Wilson.

Yeah. I heard Summer In Paradise for the first (last) time on MIC.  
 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Really, Mike seems to be the only person keeping Brian and co. from touring as the Beach Boys.  I mean, Brian and Al seem like they'd rather be touring the Beach Boys with the C50 lineup (which they basically are minus Mike, Bruce, Scott Totten, and John Cowsill) but Mike doesn't want to do it under Brian's conditions.  I think it's less than about money and licensing and more about Mike's integrity.  Mike would love if Brian, Al, and Dave joined his touring Beach Boys, otherwise keeping things the way they are but it's not that simple.  Brian needs his band with him and his own posse and maybe Mike feels violated by that in some way, that they become less of a band and more Brian Wilson and his Beach Boys.  After the tour ended, Brian said he felt like he was being fired but maybe Mike felt the same way when the tour started.  That after nearly a decade and a half of leading the group and doing things his way, he was demoted to being Brian's sideman.  It was too much for him and since he had the ability to go back to the way things were, that's the way he went.  It sucks but I think it makes sense.

I think it is all about the $. If this article is to be n9believed, they grossed about $5 million on 11 dates of the C50, not inluding merchandise.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_50th_Reunion_Tour

Brian and Al were no doubt making tons more $ on the C50 that they were on their own. Mike, not so much more probably. And the lack of control over the C50 vs. running his own thing. I can see why Mike is just touring with Bruce.

[Nicko1234]

It's a fortune to me but I think BAD-BC could make a hella of a lot more with a BB license. Not Al's only income sure. But I bet he makes more on other BRI income that he does on touring.

Really?

The first issue with that is obviously time. To take the license away from Mike, award it to other band members and then arrange dates wouldn't happen overnight. And these guys don't have that much time let's be honest.

And how many shows would they play? Brian isn't likely to go out playing 100 shows a year. Maybe 30 or so as he has done this year perhaps. But for how long remains to be seen (apologies for being morbid).

And they would have to pay 20% of gross income to BRI presumably (which would mean far less money for Carl's estate btw). When you combine that expense with the very high costs there are with Brian's touring, then lord knows how expensive the ticket prices would be.

I can't see how it would make business sense.

[Nicko1234]

I highly doubt he plays enough shows with those guys to stay busy. This is a guy who, from 1963 to  early 1998 (except for the brief period when Summer in Paradise was being made) who was a full touring member of the Beach Boys and he had that unceremoniously taken away from him.  If you were in Al's shoes, wouldn't you miss that and be angry that you were kicked out in such a fashion?

Absolutely. But he did have the chance to use the Beach Boys name and only offered to pay 5%.

[Nicko1234]

11 million over a 7 year period? Wow,  that is a lot less than I would have figured. That averages out to $1.57 million paid to BRI per year. After taxes and expenses, that is $235, 500 annually to each of the 4. After state taxes, that is like $125, 000 annually. Not a super cash cow for Brian and Al at all. Great deal for Mike! He does work hard for it, gotta give him that.

Doubtless all their individual lawyers argued about it and this was seen as a fair amount. And (to mention it again) as Al was only willing to pay 5%, I'm not sure how 20% can be seen as a, 'great deal'.

[ontor pertawst]

It's a great deal to keep control of such a money-making name that they all gave decades of their lives to help build. Mike is such a hero for working so hard to give them their well earned cuts, it really is a portrait in courage and an inspiration to all of us who start bands.

Professional video crew coverage sounds like a great plan. Live at the Greek Theater, people! Out along with the memoir, an album, and a movie next year... should be a busy year for BW!

[kermit27]

I know this take the thread even further off topic, but...
 
Mike's group has the 20% deal and AL was offered 17.5% to use "The Beach Boys Friends & Family" name, is that correct? 

I can sort of see Al's side here.  "The Beach Boys" are always going to outdraw "The Beach Boys Friends & Family." Getting a license for a second tier name at a rate that is only 2.5% less than the rate Mike gets for his top tier name does seem slightly unfair.   I'm not sure 5% is the answer, but I can certainly see that side of it.

[Nicko1234]

I know this take the thread even further off topic, but...
 
Mike's group has the 20% deal and AL was offered 17.5% to use "The Beach Boys Friends & Family" name, is that correct? 

I can sort of see Al's side here.  "The Beach Boys" are always going to outdraw "The Beach Boys Friends & Family." Getting a license for a second tier name at a rate that is only 2.5% less than the rate Mike gets for his top tier name does seem slightly unfair.   I'm not sure 5% is the answer, but I can certainly see that side of it.

I'm not sure it was limited just to that.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

11 million over a 7 year period? Wow,  that is a lot less than I would have figured. That averages out to $1.57 million paid to BRI per year. After taxes and expenses, that is $235, 500 annually to each of the 4. After state taxes, that is like $125, 000 annually. Not a super cash cow for Brian and Al at all. Great deal for Mike! He does work hard for it, gotta give him that.

Doubtless all their individual lawyers argued about it and this was seen as a fair amount. And (to mention it again) as Al was only willing to pay 5%, I'm not sure how 20% can be seen as a, 'great deal'.

But they were not going to license Al as "The Beach Boys". Just as famiky and friends of....And to quote the article you have been using for many of your posts, "Rafi, I know who ‘The Beach Boys’ are but I have no idea who Mike Love is.” He has a good point and Mike Love obviously feels it is worth paying $11 million dollars to tour as “The Beach Boys” as opposed to “Mike Love, former lead singer of ‘The Beach Boys.’”

[Wirestone]

If Mike's comments about paying $11m to BRI between 1998 and 2005 are accurate then presumably Brian, Al and Carl's estate have earned around $5m each by now.

As Mike currently seems fit and healthy and will want to tour for a while to come, they would be killing the golden goose to stop that.

11 million over a 7 year period? Wow,  that is a lot less than I would have figured. That averages out to $1.57 million paid to BRI per year. After taxes and expenses, that is $235, 500 annually to each of the 4. After state taxes, that is like $125, 000 annually. Not a super cash cow for Brian and Al at all. Great deal for Mike! He does work hard for it, gotta give him that.

I'm shocked the members of BRI earn so little. After all the protestations from those "in the know," I would have expected the principals to be raking in more than the low six figures each year. Maybe not millions, but at least a million apiece.

I think that this, frankly, proves most of the discussion about Mike's generosity in touring as the BBs to be bogus. Maybe because BRI monitors this board and has advised certain folks to say certain things. I can't be sure. But I can't help but feel used.

The dollars and cents don't add up. Brian has enough money that Mike's touring revenue wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to him. It would be a big bump in pay for Al to be able to tour regularly. That leaves Mike and Carl's estate as the beneficiaries of the current state of affairs, and I can't imagine that Carl's former spouse and kids are doing that great after splitting the pittance that Mike flings their way.

Change can't come soon enough to this rotten scenario.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I know this take the thread even further off topic, but...
 
Mike's group has the 20% deal and AL was offered 17.5% to use "The Beach Boys Friends & Family" name, is that correct?  

I can sort of see Al's side here.  "The Beach Boys" are always going to outdraw "The Beach Boys Friends & Family." Getting a license for a second tier name at a rate that is only 2.5% less than the rate Mike gets for his top tier name does seem slightly unfair.   I'm not sure 5% is the answer, but I can certainly see that side of it.

I'm not sure it was limited just to that.

It was. It's all there in the court docs. BRI wasn't gonna license two BBs bands. Their not going to do it now either.

[Nicko1234]

But they were not going to license Al as "The Beach Boys". Just as famiky and friends of....And to quote the article you have been using for many of your posts, "Rafi, I know who ‘The Beach Boys’ are but I have no idea who Mike Love is.” He has a good point and Mike Love obviously feels it is worth paying $11 million dollars to tour as “The Beach Boys” as opposed to “Mike Love, former lead singer of ‘The Beach Boys.’”

Absolutely. I think that article (you did ask me to dig it out ) is very fair. 20% before expenses is a lot of money but because Mike would struggle to sell tickets under his own name it is fair that he pays that much. The lawyers presumably haggled to get there.

[Nicko1234]

Seriously, I'm shocked the members of BRI earn so little. After all of the protestations from those "in the know," I would have expected all the principals to be raking in more than the low six figures each year. Maybe not millions, but at least a million apiece.

I think that this, frankly, proves most of the discussion about Mike's generosity in touring as the BBs to be bogus. Maybe because BRI monitors this board and has advised certain folks to say certain things. I can't be sure. But I can't help but feel used.

There's no question now, to my mind, that the dollars and cents don't add up. Brian has enough money that Mike's touring revenue wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to him. It would be a big bump in pay for Al to be able to tour regularly. That leaves Mike and Carl's estate as the beneficiaries of the current state of affairs, and I can't imagine that Carl's former spouse and kids are doing that great after splitting the pittance that Mike flings their way.

Change can't come soon enough to this rotten scenario.

You are joking of course.

Brian and his management voted for Mike to use the name from the start. They obviously thought the financial recompense was worth it.

The part where you suggest that BRI has told certain other posters to say things is both preposterous and pretty low in my opinion.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Seriously, I'm shocked the members of BRI earn so little. After all of the protestations from those "in the know," I would have expected all the principals to be raking in more than the low six figures each year. Maybe not millions, but at least a million apiece.

I think that this, frankly, proves most of the discussion about Mike's generosity in touring as the BBs to be bogus. Maybe because BRI monitors this board and has advised certain folks to say certain things. I can't be sure. But I can't help but feel used.

There's no question now, to my mind, that the dollars and cents don't add up. Brian has enough money that Mike's touring revenue wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to him. It would be a big bump in pay for Al to be able to tour regularly. That leaves Mike and Carl's estate as the beneficiaries of the current state of affairs, and I can't imagine that Carl's former spouse and kids are doing that great after splitting the pittance that Mike flings their way.

Change can't come soon enough to this rotten scenario.

You are joking of course.

Brian and his management voted for Mike to use the name from the start. They obviously thought the financial recompense was worth it.

He wasn't joking. Where Brian was just post Landy is differennt from BRIMEL today. And Al voted no. I don't see where Mike's license is permanent, as AGD posted earlier. Howie mentioned a BAD-BC tour next summer. Gonha be quite interesting to see what happend.

[Nicko1234]

He wasn't joking. Where Brian was just post Landy is differennt from BRIMEL today. And Al voted no. I don't see where Mike's license is permanent, as AGD posted earlier. Howie mentioned a BAD-BC tour next summer. Gonha be quite interesting to see what happend.

It wasn't exactly just post Landy. It was way after that.

[Nicko1234]

Would Brian himself consider the band to be The Beach Boys without Mike? Something tells me he wouldn't.

It seems unlikely. And it wouldn't be. Mike and Bruce obviously isn't the real Beach Boys now and Brian, Al, Dave and Blondie (a band missing 4 of the most recognizable members) wouldn't be the Beach Boys either.

The difference is that Mike and Bruce tour with a small band, keep the ticket prices down and so have kept it going as a successful business.

[SMiLE Brian]

The whole M&B "doing for it for fans in smaller venues" talk rings hollow when they charge $80 dollars for some shows.

[Nicko1234]

The whole M&B "doing for it for fans in smaller venues" talk rings hollow when they charge $80 dollars for some shows.

I don't think it's about doing it in smaller venues. I think it's about Mike making money, having sex with young lovelies and getting the adulation from the crowd. But they also get to play in out of the way places and most of their shows certainly aren't $80. The county fairs in particular are much cheaper.

[SMiLE Brian]

 I think it's about Mike making money, having sex with young lovelies and getting the adulation from the crowd.

That is the problem in a nutshell, Mike uses the BBs name to feed his ego and personal desires.

Brian wishes to have the BBs as a functioning band that makes new music like TWGMTR.