The Smiley Smile Message Board

So there has been a little talk about this interview on the board in the past couple of weeks.  But back in 1999 hbo had a series called reverb and Wayne Coyne of the flaming lips sat down and interviewed Brian.  Unfortunately the episode never aired, apparently, though a transcript of the interview was posted. http://www.stopsmilingonline.com/story_detail.php?id=224 (http://www.stopsmilingonline.com/story_detail.php?id=224)  I would really like to SEE this interview, and was hoping someone here would have a lead for me to follow up on....

I so want to see this interview!

I... I... I need this. It will bring the past three years of my life full circle. Help! Dear God help!!!

"Why can't YOU put out a 24 hour song encased in a real human skull or a gummie fetus, Brian? You're not "experimental", you're not "avant garde", I am. You're washed up and I am better than you."

Didn't Wayne badmouth Brian after this interview? I read an interview where he called him pathetic/retarded, talking about how he needs people to change his diaper, etc. I enjoy some Flaming Lips but that guy is a dick, and not nearly as clever or talented as he thinks.

Yes, he was extremely unimpressed with Brian. For reasons that are understandable if you know about Wayne C. -- he helps set up the stage for his own shows, for goodness' sake -- but that don't play well for BW fans, obviously.

Wow, what a jerk, Brian should kick his ass Murry Wilson style.

Yes, Wayne is kind of the prototype for arrogant hipster dickness. He badmouths a lot of people he's worked with/come into contact with (just ask Beck). That said, I don't think I'd be the obsessed Beach Boys fan I am today without having first come to love The Soft Bulletin and that type of vocal harmony-rich, orchestrated POP production style. I'd love to see/read the original interview, but I'd also be interested in Wayne's classless post-interview attack.

But still. What a fodaing asshole. It's BRIAN WILSON, you greasy prick. Show some respect.

Oh Jesus Christ.


It would seem so.

Wayne has sucked since Soft Bulletin.  Totally disappeared into his own schtick. 

We have a winner. You interviewed one of the biggest pop songwriters of all time, and you're gonna badmouth him afterwards? Get the fuck out of here.

Brian is humble and lets his talent for music speak for itself. Wayne has to apparently play the jerk hipster role to justify his lesser talents. Brian is more hip than any other jerkoff "hipsters"

I would like to see where it is printed that Wayne has said what he's being accused of saying.

Saying it he was disappointed that Beck was not a "relaxed Californian stoner" must be one of the dumbest thing I've ever read.

How was the 24 hour song he did? I like the idea of taking Jethro Tull's "thick as a brick" mega song concept even further :)

http://www.stopsmilingonline.com/story_detail.php?id=225

SS: From your interview with Brian Wilson, the one for HBO ? do you really think that Brian is a ?genius??

WC: I think genius is weird. It is something that happens. But I don't think people are born that way. I'm not in contempt of him, though. I just hate that if someone is drug-damaged, or eccentric, or possibly mad, people will let them sh*t all over themselves thinking, Isn't he [and out of respect, she] cool?"

Humans should have some sort of behavioral standards at some point in time. I don't care what you do. I don't care if you're the greatest artist. You have to be a good human first! But I don't think that people are geniuses, per se. I think anyone is capable of doing anything that could be considered "genius." I think it's a combination of persistence and some intention, and then some luck and then a little bit more luck, and then just the world being ready for what it is, and then it's considered genius. And it's a lot of accidents and a lot of timing. ...

SS: So do you view Brian more as a "pop guru?" And what about Pet Sounds? I mean, it's a great record, but I think the press has gone way overboard in recent years.

WC: Unfortunately, he's driven by that press -- how he always needs to be in the limelight of things.

SS: He's an American, though, born and raised.

WC: I think he can be a fool, because he needs people to pay attention to him. He's got the Elvis Presley syndrome. He wants everyone to say, "You're great! You're great!" I think he surrounds himself with people who are like, "Brian, the way you eat cereal ? you're a genius. Brian, the way that you wipe your ass, it's genius." I've found it off-putting at times.

But later on, I was like, "Well, if he's such a genius, why can't he talk." He's been asked about his music, like, everyday of his fucking life, so you'd think that he'd have something to say about it, besides, "Well, the Beatles are great." I know they are, Brian. Now, do you remember any of the ideas that you put into your music?

----------

There's more in another interview IIRC, but this is some of it.

Thanks wirestone. Wayne has a point. Brian is kind of surrounded by people whose whole purpose is to prop him up with praise and encouragement. If you don't know the story behind it, it must appear very bizarre. That being said, Wayne does have the propensity to speak from his ass.   :lol

Per the 24 hour song 7 Skies H3, I loved it. I listened to it on Halloween with old silent Universal Monster movies going on in the background. Marvelous.

Interesting.  Because the specific criticism Wayne had about Brian was about his parenting...  Unfortunately, I don't have the quote, I haven't read it in 10 years.  It's not that one previously posted though. 

I'm not trying to back Wayne up here to anything, but it's kinda unlike him...  As someone who's met him a handful of times, he's actually a really REALLY nice guy.  The Beck thing, Beck was being a douche and not carrying his weight for their collaboration.  So Wayne was honest about it. 

You also have to remember that at the time, The Soft Bulletin was compared to Pet Sounds almost daily, and that must have been exhausting...  I'm sure it was a more defensive thing, to attack Brian because he was sick of his own album being compared to Pet Sounds.  On that actual Reverb performance, the interviewer asked Wayne about the album being compared to Pet Sounds and Wayne is visibly annoyed, saying that it wasn't hard to get the Pet Sounds comparison, all you'd need is lush harmonies and "that vibey sound." 

But the Brian-Wayne interview is out there, I've seen it ten years ago.  Brian has this "wtf is this guy even talking about" look on his face the whole time, and it's not very interesting at all.  I can understand why it never aired...  But yeah, Wayne was a very unnecessarily biting about Brian, and it's unlike him if you know anything about Wayne or The Flaming Lips.

Just my 2 cents. 

You expressed what I meant much better than I did. I saw the interview too. When Wayne was explaining it to the audience his angle was that he thinks he kind of scared Brian because of how weird he looked. But he seemed to think Brian was great.

Yeah, I don't know.  As I said, Wayne specifically attacked Brain's parenting.  And it's weird because I know he loves the Beach Boys and were a big influence, and Wayne's comments were unlike him to go after another musician in such a way.  It rubbed me the wrong way, and that's the only time of all the interviews I've read/heard, you know?  Plus, being offended that your album was hailed as "this generation's Pet Sounds?"  Wow, must be rough, huh?  ;) 

Meh, I think people just assume Wayne is more exposed to things than he probably really is. I also think Steven is probably the real Beach Boys fan in the FLips. Wayne, if anything, is probably just a casual fan.

I don't see what the big issue is here.  Some other musician wasn't exactly taken with Brian's personality when he met him in 1999.  

Some of the quotes just wreak of simple ignorance of Brian's state of mind.  Without getting into psychoanalysis I'm assuming we've all read enough Brian Wilson interviews to see how he acts when he's placed in an unfamiliar or uncomfortable situation.  So the fact that this guy wasn't impressed why Brian can't talk for himself or advocate for himself?  Well maybe he just didn't feel like talking to this individual or baring his soul to someone he was probably meeting for the first time.  

The bottom line for me whenever these situations come up I consider the source and nine times out of ten I'm going to give Brian Wilson the benefit of the doubt.  Does that make me a Brian Wilson apologist?  Maybe but the man has earned my respect both through his music and the incredible courage it must taken for someone who has gone through the trials that he's gone through to be at a point now where he's both performing and making records once again.  

How is that? I don't know the details specifically, so not questioning you, just wondering what was said.

I'm pretty sure I saw Wayne Coyne at the 2nd RFH performance of Smile. Anyone else able to confirm this?

agreed with 90% of this to an extent

it's weird that wayne asks a question he answered just a few statements earlier.

No offense but BW is acting very "dopey" in that interview and it's ironic that this original slacker guy is offended by that.

Say what you will about Wayne, but he's no slacker.  He's actually one of the hardest working guys in the business and for all his freakiness, he's very outgoing and functional.  I can almost see why he might be disappointed after meeting Brian, but I didn't care for some of his comments after that interview--a bit too judgmental.  Apart from the Beck incident, he also got into a kerfuffle with Arcade Fire, so he does seem to have a bit of an attitude.

You have to wonder what he was expecting. Being unimpressed is one thing, but I think it's wrong to judge anyone suffering from mental illness. People who haven't experienced it can't even begin to imagine what it's like, and it comes off as incredibly ignorant. I would no sooner mock someone with a physical handicap for not getting around as well as I do.

Well, it was the case of Beck acting like a pampered rock star.  The Flaming Lips showed up at the studio, ready to rehearse the material with Beck, but Beck didn't bother showing up... for days.  And when he did he'd just listen, give a few suggestions, and then leave.  He essentially pulled the "I'm beyond you guys, I'm a musical director who will come and go as I please" schtick, and The Flaming Lips had assumed that they would all rehearse as a band...

And as I think you said (or someone else), we're talking about a band who, even to this day, hauls their own gear onto stage and sets it up themselves and is known to hang out with fans (I could tell you a pretty awesome personal experience!), but then Beck, who would be too cool for interviews, too cool to come out of his dressing room, bitches and moans about is rider, and so forth.  You know what I mean?  

But I will say is the "feud" between Beck and The Flaming Lips that happened at the time was a hoax, a deliberate experiment to see if they could create a press-driven ruckus...  So the differences between the two, I'd say, is just their work ethic, and how they handled stardom, you know?  I'm sure they respect eachother and are friendly...  

On the Flips boards, their drummer Kliph has a Q&A thing, and I'm looking for his quote about Beck, clarifying it all but can't seem to find it.  I'll post it when I do!  

Ha, I will say that the sound-design and arrangement of Zaireeka/The Soft Bulletin (the orchestration and such) was entirely Steven's idea and execution.  He had wanted to incorporate those music ideas into the band for a while, but couldn't as long as Ronald was still in the band.  After he left, the was free to 'take reigns'...  

The Flaming lips, I lump them together with bands like Phish and Black Crowers, 80s/90s hippies, stoner/slacker guys who'll smoke a joint before doing a tv-interview. This kind of thing........but I know nothing about them

Wayne's kind of funny when it comes to drugs.  From what I understand, he rarely parties anymore--he's way too busy for that--but he obviously did in his youth and their music has been strongly influenced by the whole psychedelic experience.  Steven had some well publicized struggles with heroin several years back, but he's been clean for a while.  So maybe part of Wayne's attitude is "Yeah, we messed around with that stuff too, but we were able to keep our sh*t together."  But I don't want to put words in his mouth.  Brian's a whole different story.  He had some deep psychological issues to begin with and the drugs just exacerbated them.  I don't think Wayne ever had to contend with auditory hallucinations and the like.

I've never heard of Wayne Coyne. 


I think that really says all we need to say about who said what, who's a jerk, who's hip, etc. 

Saw a FLips show last year and it was by far the loudest, freakiest gig I ever saw.  An acid trip on stage, I must say a lot of work went into it.   Another Wayne Coyne obsession is, well, uh, the female reproductive organ.  It gets, shall we say, a lot of exposure in the video background to their shows.   Also a frequent theme, so to speak, in their Christmas on Mars DVD.   The road crew and Wayne's nephew have their own band, Star Death and White Dwarves, which is the USA equivalent of XTC's Dukes of Stratosphear sixties-knockoff, channeling Vanilla Fudge, early Black Sabbath, James Gang stoner rock,  and the like.

Uh ok. I guess you must have your finger on the pulse of hipster-dom then eh?

What is a hipster anyway? I hate that word.

That seems quite apparent when you lump them in with those other bands that are nothing like them. Have a listen to The Soft Bulletin (or Zaireeka if you have four CD players handy).

Just like I wouldn't be too quick to judge Brian--I haven't walked in his shoes--I wouldn't rush to judgment over Wayne's comments either.  I don't like to get too hung up on the personalities--I prefer to judge artists by their work.  I've enjoyed a lot of the Flaming Lips stuff over the years (though some of the recent stuff has left me scratching my head).

I take back what I said about Wayne after reading the full interview and finding Wayne is saying a good message overall.

Not musically! Image, drug use, fanbase etc...

Man, I love the internet.

That's far off the mark too though.

Uh ok.  The point is, it's similar to somebody at Taco Bell being rude to Brian.  In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. 

Hipster a derogatory term used to put down people who have to try really hard to be cool.  Truly 'cool' people, 'hip' people don't try, others just notice it.  Kind of like how Brian is respected by millions of people around the world from infants to grandmas.... and people like me who own thousands of albums have never even heard of Wayne Coyne.  I'm sure he's a great guy and all, but in the grand scheme of things he's so far out of the realm of a cool guy like Brian Wilson that his opinion or tact regarding Brian Wilson is about as unimportant as mine. 

To break out the crayons and construction paper : The point is, Brian's universally known to be 'hip', and nobody thinks he's a jerk.  I know 5 year olds that know this.  Wayne Coyne hasn't even reached Vanilla Ice status yet in the minds of the public.  That's reallllllllly uncool.  Doing things like flashing pictures of a vagina on the screen behind you while you sing isn't cool, either.  It's trying too hard.   Doing something like inventing the way pop music is recorded... that's pretty cool. 

Does this really need explanation?

I don't mind if one of my favourite musicians states a point about the overuse of the word 'genius' in relation to Brian Wilson. I wonder about that myself.

But to get out the crayons - You said you don't know what you're talking about. Stop talking about it, then.

Bollocks.

The correct definition of musical genius, as understood about 250 years ago when things like this began to be considered is quite simple.

A "musical genius" is someone who can hear five or more lines of polyphony (harmony) in their head simultaneously.

So I would agree with him that genius is an overused and completely misunderstood word. Even he misunderstands it!

Nope. It is pretty clear you know less about Wayne than Wayne knows about Brian.  :lol

So you are saying an artist has to be recognized by the mainstream media to be "cool"?  Is that your definition of success?  Also, are you suggesting your view of "cool" is the exact same as mine or anyone else's? 


But The Flaming Lips recorded a 4-CD album meant to be played simultaneously on 4 separate sound systems (each disc contained the same 8 songs, but each disc had different sound elements and/or tracks from each song, so that you could control what you hear, and the randomness in the playback would allow for decays to happen before the attack of certain sounds.  It also forces the listening experience to be a social event, as you would need three other people to synchronize the other discs. 

They also conducted Boombox Experiments, in which each audience member was handed out a boombox of pre-recorded sounds and Wayne played the part of a conductor, signaling to audience members when to turn the volume up or down on their boombox.  This was a continuation of the Parking Lot Experiments, in which they handed out 50 pre-recorded tapes and audience members were instructed to play each tape at the same time from their car...

Also most recently they recorded a 6-hour song, and if one donated $100 to charity, your name would be put into the song (which was read by none other than Sean Lennon).  They've also recently been releasing music contained on a USB drive, stuck in the center of a gummi fetus, so you would have to eat the gummi fetus to get to the music.  They also literally just released a 24-hour song last week. 

How is that not reinventing how music is recorded and released? 

I'm starting to think that the Lips are coming down with "Yes Disease", aka "Tales From Topographic Oceans Syndrome."

This is a tricky one for me, as The Lips Soft Bullettin is one of my top 10 albums...yet Coyne doesn't have the talent of Brian (heck, almost no one does!). In any event, Wayne is critical of Brian but I've heard he's quite a nice guy in real life. In any event, the Lips recent offerings aren't quite my cup of tea, Brian's an amazing talent yet lacks great social skills in interviews and all I can say is what Ringo says: Peace and love, peace and love, peace and love.

Well, I can tell you that compared to what the Flaming Lips have been doing lately, Tales From Topographic Oceans sounds concise and well thought out!  I actually enjoy a lot of progressive/improv music and I'm not afraid of a long song, but I made it through about an hour of I Found A Star On The Ground (their six hour opus) and I thought it was just a noisy, unfocused jam, pretty self indulgent.  I've been a fan of the Lips for nearly twenty years now too and have enjoyed most of their stuff up until this point.  I'll give them kudos for marching to their own drummer, but they've been losing me with this stuff lately.

What is it with hipsters and Pabst Blue Ribbon beer? :)

Me and my friends were trying to figure that one out a couple days ago as well. ;D What is it about PBR that makes it so popular with them?

I know virtually nothing about contemporary music but if you own thousands of albums and The Soft Bulletin isn't one of them, I'd say that's really unfortunate and you're definitely missing out on one of the best albums made in the last 20 years. And if you haven't heard of The Soft Bulletin, I don't think you're in much position to even comment, quite honestly. At least Wayne Coyne was familiar with Brian Wilson.  So you know, he's got that on you.

Well, I saw them this year, and yes, they enter into the stage literally from a vagina. One of the best gigs of my life. But at the same time, WC is really humble and hard working, yes -as someone else said- he and the rest of the band helps with the setting of the stage and instruments before the show.

I think he was dissapointed by Brian's current beign and didn't mind saying it. Obviously, Peter Buck was way more tolerant.

Maybe it's another hipster reference.  Have you seen Blue Velvet?  "Heineken?  f*** that sh*t!  Pabst. Blue. Ribbon!"

 .

PBR is cheap and tastes good. I don't know why more subcultures don't drink it.

I agree with half of the first statement. :-D

And the second half would make a killer punchline if PBR ever needs a television ad campaign. Picture someone cracking open a can of PBR, taking a few good swigs of the beer, letting out that "aaahhhhh...." noise, and delivering that line on cue. It could be the next "I'm lovin it!" viral ad catchphrase.

Because it's cheap, and we can save our money for thrift store treasures. 

I'm a Natural Light person myself. ;D

YUCK

It's funny because I found out I was a hipster when someone took a picture of my band at this bar before we played, and there were like 30 cans of PBR at the table.  Really embarrassing. 

I kinda have to agree :lol, but its cheap and easy to drink a lot of them.

PBR-official drink of hipsters and this guy....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGSN7JVg1yQ

 :lol

Here, on the shores of England-land (or maybe just SE London), hipster beer is Red Stripe. It tastes like arse, but comes in an vaguely aesthetically pleasing can. Mystery solved  ;D

That's not too bad, unless a gang of dudes rode up to the gig on Vespa scooters. :)

You can get a 32 ounce bottle of PBR for just over 2 dollars. If you can find one that costs less per ounce that doesnt taste like brewed urine I'd like to hear it.

I'm going back a few years, keep in mind...but in the early 90's the best, most cost-effective way to fuel up for band practices, sessions, and shows (etc...) was the malt liquor. The easiest to drink was called Haffenreffer Private Stock, and the kind we'd buy came in 64 oz bottles...yes, 64 oz...for a few dollars. It actually tasted somewhat good. The worst: Crazy Horse. That was bad. Private stock in 64's was decent, and it had a ring on the neck of the bottle so you could grip it better.

Best beer around here, 2011, for the money? Yuengling Lager, and it's actually much more crisp and fresh in the cans. That is actually a good drinking lager that won't break the bank.

In Boston, circa 1997-98, there was a natural foods type of store called Bread And Circus which had a great beer selection. I'd buy 6-packs of Brooklyn IPA (a beer which I love) for around 5 dollars, and as it was high alcohol content, a few of those would do the job quite nice, thank you. And the taste couldn't be beat. I'll still drink that, Brooklyn is a good brewery.

Best deal ever? 16 oz bottles of either Knickerbocker or Brewski, cases ran just over 12 bucks. And it was decent beer.

PBR, Budweiser, Keystone, Natty Light, etc? I'm not into them even if the price is good. Headache in a bottle (or can). :-D

This thread makes me thirsty and I can't even drink half the beer you're on about!

Burnetts vodka and miller high life 40z are some more favorites of mine.

I think it is cool that the Flaming Lips did a whole cover album of pink floyd's dark side of the moon.

Whatever happened between Brian and Wayne, it must not have been THAT bad...

(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1777/af2qrifciae6t48.jpg)

I find beer in general to be pretty nasty...whiskey sours do the trick for me.

Awesome. Where did that picture come from Sonic?

Wayne probably twitted it...  surfingelectrode posted it in my SMiLE thread on the Non Lips board. 

Do you think someone held a gun to his head when he signed that one?

I still find it hilarious that the biggest hippie dope in the music industry took offense when Brian acted a bit dopey.

His constant chatter charmed me at first but it does get a tad wearying after a while, especially at live shows and when he's banging out on about drugs/drug culture in interviews.

*However* the last couple of Flaming Lips albums (At War With the Mystics and Embryonic) have absolutely floored me, so I have no criticisms from a creative point of view. It might be the case that there continued excellence is more down to Steven Drozd but I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt.

This is a salient point, insomuch as I've always had the feeling that it's not something that Wayne has a grasp of. I actually applaud Wayne for speaking his mind about people who he feels to be lacking in basic humility, but despite his 'freakiness' he comes across as a very well-balanced individual and I've got the impression with things he's said in the past that he doesn't quite understand that not everyone is as fortunate as he is in this respect.