SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Dunderhead]

I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

So you're happy that Brian, with the help of some so-called friends, drugged himself into a state that rendered him almost unable to function as a human being, much less a musician,  for several years, and into such a state that it required the services of someone who then inflicted more damage than your gloriously creative psychedelics ever did him with prescription drugs, to the extent that he was almost made a vegetable ?

You, sir, are not just a fool, you are most certainly not any kind of BB/BW fan. I'll not bother myself with you anymore.

This is ridiculous and narrowminded. We all experience pain and suffering, it's what makes us human. Am I happy that Brian suffered? No. Am I happy that a human being got to make his own mistakes and live his own life and experience all the things, good and bad, that make up life? Yes.

You hope to make yourself out to be very humane by saying you'd spare Brian of his pain, but that's anti-human, because tragedy is ultimately perhaps what makes us MOST human. It's a nice thought AGD that if you could you'd go out there and erase all pain from the world, but I don't want to live in that world.

Do you think that to be a "REAL" (seriously?) BB fan you have to be willing to wipe Brian's ass and spoon feed and shelter him from the world because he's some type of golden god? I think being a real BB fan is about experiencing the great art that resulted in Brian's pain, and feeling his pain, and crying with him, and ultimately affirming his life as well as your own by experiencing deeply those most tender feelings that represent the height of human emotion and experience. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'll say one more thing to you: you'd be surprised who reads this board, and the amusement/indignation afforded them by some of the posts and posters here.

[18thofMay]

And the last thing his mates wanna do is glorify what by all rights nearly killed him..DRUGS.

[Myk Luhv]

So I guess we shouldn't expect SMiLE-themed blotter paper in the box set then, huh?

[pixletwin]

I think believing that drugs "robbed" us of more good music is a bad attitude to have.

Yes. It is a much more sporting attitude to believe that the drugs gifted us with some amazing work. Without them our lives would be much more drab.

So you're happy that Brian, with the help of some so-called friends, drugged himself into a state that rendered him almost unable to function as a human being, much less a musician,  for several years, and into such a state that it required the services of someone who then inflicted more damage than your gloriously creative psychedelics ever did him with prescription drugs, to the extent that he was almost made a vegetable ?

Not to mention the families and friendships which the drugs destroyed.

[Dunderhead]

I don't think being a good BB fan is about sealing Brian off in a germ free bubble in order to shield him from all the terrible things in the world.

If Brian hadn't experienced his pain, would we have gotten Friends?

"By this time I had a good thing rollin’ in my head. The bad things that had happened to me had taken their toll and I was free to find out just how much I had grown through the emotional pain that had come my way. I, even more, had spiritual love high in mind for my fans and people in general. Little things like saying to somebody in music that if I did it then you can do it too, what ever your “do it” might be."

What about 'Til I Die, or Still I Dream of It? Or so many of his other wonderful songs.

It's not about "glorifying" drugs, it's about giving the man his due respect, it's about glorifying his life, his experience, his pain, through his music and thereby affirming both his existence and your own.

You all act like this is an incredibly stupid way to think, and that I'm some type of malicious gremlin who hates Brian Wilson and wants his life to be miserable, because I'm not a "real" BB fan. But that's just a willful misrepresentation of my point. This idea, that suffering and tragedy might be the ultimate moment of human existence has been at the heart of the work of many artists, from Nietzsche to Akira Kurosawa. Suffering is part of being human, without sorrow there can't be any joy.

If you want to be respectful to Brian, the best way to do it through his art, not by treating him like some invalid that needs to be protected from everything. If Brian never experienced any pain in his life I doubt he would have been motivated to make art. Sure you may imagine you're being a really sympathetic person when you say you'd spare him of his pain, but but sparing him of pain you're also sparing him of joy, you're sparing him of his humanity.

[OBLiO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vpSPf5CoyQ

[Catbirdman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8

[bgas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8

Your son/daughter?

[Catbirdman]

Drunk-posting now, and not sure where to post this, but a sixth sense tells me not to start a new thread...

Over on the Steve Hoffman forum, someone catalogued all the BWPS instrumental versions that have been released:

Heroes And Villains (LP side 4)
Cabinessence (LP side 4)
On A Holiday (LP side 4)
Wind Chimes (LP side 4)
Roll Plymouth Rock (ESQ giveaway)
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (ESQ giveaway) [same as album, but clean intro/outro]
In Blue Hawaii (Good Vibes CD single b-side)
Surf's Up (Beautiful Dreamer Bonus CD)

Now let it be understood in no uncertain terms: I own all of these and paid good money for them. The BWPS vinyl edition is displayed proudly on my bookshelf. But I have no way of ripping vinyl to mp3...

Gee, how I would love to have mp3 versions of the first four on that list. Gosh.

Poor me.

[bgas]

you type pretty good for a drunk poster.

[Catbirdman]

you type pretty good for a drunk poster.

comes from being anal about typography my friend

np: TLOS bonus tracks

oyhfwoiuhgoiuaehr

[PhilCohen]

Some people say that suffering and strife can inspire great art, but Brian Wilson could still have created great art with only modest amounts of unhappy times. He certainly didn't need to endure the enormous suffering that he fortunately survived. Brian's use of "recreational"(I.E. non-addictive) drugs didn't lead to abuse of physically addictive drugs until the early 1970's.
                                  But with rare exceptions("I'm bugged at My Old Man", "In My Room", "Til I Die"), Brian never sought to channel his unhappiness into songs. Brian usually sought to create "Good Vibrations" in his music, no matter what unhappy situations were going on around him.

[Mike's Beard]

While it is true some great art has sprung from unhappiness (blues, folk and country were all developed from downtrodden tragic perspectives), Brian Wilson imprisoning himself in his room in a drugged out manic depressive state for years was far too steep a price to pay for the odd good song.

[The Heartical Don]

I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

So you're happy that Brian, with the help of some so-called friends, drugged himself into a state that rendered him almost unable to function as a human being, much less a musician,  for several years, and into such a state that it required the services of someone who then inflicted more damage than your gloriously creative psychedelics ever did him with prescription drugs, to the extent that he was almost made a vegetable ?

You, sir, are not just a fool, you are most certainly not any kind of BB/BW fan. I'll not bother myself with you anymore.

Good call, I agree. Ultra-devoted fans sometimes have a habit of usurping their heroes. I for one wouldn't mind if there'd be no SMiLE at all, ever, if, in exchange, Brian would have left the drugs alone just after Pet Sounds (i.e. would have discontinued his pot use), and would have led a happy and stable family life instead of that of an ill man who oftentimes bordered on vagrancy (just like his youngest brother would); not to mention all of that precious time lost,  when he was totally 'out of it' because of his abuse, barely perceiving what was going on in the world at large.

Brian's drug abuse was no 'free choice of lifestyle' at all. Most probably his misfortune was brought about by desperate attempts at self-medication, with the aid of truckloads of cocaine and alcohol, to quench the general upheaval in his brain. Which, as we know, never works. Eventually it turns against you in the most horrible of ways. And Landy did the rest.

[18thofMay]

I'm happy that Brian's career happened in the way that it happened, and I wouldn't change it.

So you're happy that Brian, with the help of some so-called friends, drugged himself into a state that rendered him almost unable to function as a human being, much less a musician,  for several years, and into such a state that it required the services of someone who then inflicted more damage than your gloriously creative psychedelics ever did him with prescription drugs, to the extent that he was almost made a vegetable ?

You, sir, are not just a fool, you are most certainly not any kind of BB/BW fan. I'll not bother myself with you anymore.

Good call, I agree. Ultra-devoted fans sometimes have a habit of usurping their heroes. I for one wouldn't mind if there'd be no SMiLE at all, ever, if, in exchange, Brian would have left the drugs alone just after Pet Sounds (i.e. would have discontinued his pot use), and would have led a happy and stable family life instead of that of an ill man who oftentimes bordered on vagrancy (just like his youngest brother would); not to mention all of that precious time lost,  when he was totally 'out of it' because of his abuse, barely perceiving what was going on in the world at large.

Brian's drug abuse was no 'free choice of lifestyle' at all. Most probably his misfortune was brought about by desperate attempts at self-medication, with the aid of truckloads of cocaine and alcohol, to quench the general upheaval in his brain. Which, as we know, never works. Eventually it turns against you in the most horrible of ways. And Landy did the rest.

Brilliant.!
And for you guys that feel you connect with Brian cause he inhaled, triped,toked and snorted.. Get over it.
And those same people that feel creativity or understanding of musical complexity cannot be achieved without drugs...you just dont get it... Some of us have talent,ability and drive..No drugs required.

[Dunderhead]

Good call, I agree. Ultra-devoted fans sometimes have a habit of usurping their heroes. I for one wouldn't mind if there'd be no SMiLE at all, ever, if, in exchange, Brian would have left the drugs alone just after Pet Sounds

yeah, *just after pet sounds*....you sound like an addict yourself, addicted to music Brian Wilson made while using drugs. "just one more, then I'll have him stop, just one more album and that's it, then I quit cold turkey I swear!"

I wouldn't say anyone here is being altruistic or sympathetic when you say you would somehow, moderate Brian's suffering so that he just had enough to make the art that you personally want. Who are you to dole out emotion to someone else like you're their keeper? It's a weird fantasy. We are who we are in part because of the things we regret, taking those away from Brian would be changing Brian. I think you do him a greater service by accepting his life, good and bad, then having ridiculous day dreams about how you'd try and change his life if you could. So, to you I say, get over it!

And those same people that feel creativity or understanding of musical complexity cannot be achieved without drugs...you just dont get it... Some of us have talent,ability and drive..No drugs required.

You also don't get it, because nobody is saying that. You have a weird understanding of art, as far as I can tell you believe there's some static quality, talent, and you can either have it or not, and everything else is just superfluous. Consider my previous analogies. A talented painter with only one color may still be talented, but he'll likely find himself limited in what he can express. Drugs are just one thing that make up the whole dynamic range of SMiLE, but all the individual elements connect in some way, they relate to eachother, and in that relation a broader whole emerges. You think I'm somehow trying to give credit to drugs for SMiLE, that this is a boxing match and I'm trying to raise LSD's arm up in some ridiculous triumphant ritual, but that just isn't the case.

[The Heartical Don]

Good call, I agree. Ultra-devoted fans sometimes have a habit of usurping their heroes. I for one wouldn't mind if there'd be no SMiLE at all, ever, if, in exchange, Brian would have left the drugs alone just after Pet Sounds

yeah, *just after pet sounds*....you sound like an addict yourself, addicted to music Brian Wilson made while using drugs. "just one more, then I'll have him stop, just one more album and that's it, then I quit cold turkey I swear!"

I wouldn't say anyone here is being altruistic or sympathetic when you say you would somehow, moderate Brian's suffering so that he just had enough to make the art that you personally want. Who are you to dole out emotion to someone else like you're their keeper? It's a weird fantasy. We are who we are in part because of the things we regret, taking those away from Brian would be changing Brian. I think you do him a greater service by accepting his life, good and bad, then having ridiculous day dreams about how you'd try and change his life if you could.

You wilfully misinterpret my words, sir, for your own purposes. I would have written the very same about Pet Sounds, had Brian already been a coke/alcohol/probably heroin addict at that time. I meant to say: he could have stopped his use of marihuana (less harmful than normal cigarettes) in time, and with some luck have found a good therapist for his anxiety disorder and depression. Around 1967.

[Dunderhead]

Good call, I agree. Ultra-devoted fans sometimes have a habit of usurping their heroes. I for one wouldn't mind if there'd be no SMiLE at all, ever, if, in exchange, Brian would have left the drugs alone just after Pet Sounds

yeah, *just after pet sounds*....you sound like an addict yourself, addicted to music Brian Wilson made while using drugs. "just one more, then I'll have him stop, just one more album and that's it, then I quit cold turkey I swear!"

I wouldn't say anyone here is being altruistic or sympathetic when you say you would somehow, moderate Brian's suffering so that he just had enough to make the art that you personally want. Who are you to dole out emotion to someone else like you're their keeper? It's a weird fantasy. We are who we are in part because of the things we regret, taking those away from Brian would be changing Brian. I think you do him a greater service by accepting his life, good and bad, then having ridiculous day dreams about how you'd try and change his life if you could.

You wilfully misinterpret my words, sir, for your own purposes. I would have written the very same about Pet Sounds, had Brian already been a coke/alcohol/probably heroin addict at that time. I meant to say: he could have stopped his use of marihuana (less harmful than normal cigarettes) in time, and with some luck have found a good therapist for his anxiety disorder and depression. Around 1967.

Oh, okay, I had just never heard before that Brian was doing coke and heroin during the smile sessions.

[The Heartical Don]

Good call, I agree. Ultra-devoted fans sometimes have a habit of usurping their heroes. I for one wouldn't mind if there'd be no SMiLE at all, ever, if, in exchange, Brian would have left the drugs alone just after Pet Sounds

yeah, *just after pet sounds*....you sound like an addict yourself, addicted to music Brian Wilson made while using drugs. "just one more, then I'll have him stop, just one more album and that's it, then I quit cold turkey I swear!"

I wouldn't say anyone here is being altruistic or sympathetic when you say you would somehow, moderate Brian's suffering so that he just had enough to make the art that you personally want. Who are you to dole out emotion to someone else like you're their keeper? It's a weird fantasy. We are who we are in part because of the things we regret, taking those away from Brian would be changing Brian. I think you do him a greater service by accepting his life, good and bad, then having ridiculous day dreams about how you'd try and change his life if you could.

You wilfully misinterpret my words, sir, for your own purposes. I would have written the very same about Pet Sounds, had Brian already been a coke/alcohol/probably heroin addict at that time. I meant to say: he could have stopped his use of marihuana (less harmful than normal cigarettes) in time, and with some luck have found a good therapist for his anxiety disorder and depression. Around 1967.

Oh, okay, I had just never heard before that Brian was doing coke and heroin during the smile sessions.

I think I made my point well enough, although my words may be interpreted in such a way that factual errors can be deduced.

[rogerlancelot]

Check out the "God Only Knows" footage from summer '67 in the American Band doc. Brian is smacking his lips quite noticeably. Yes he was frying on speed or coke at this time. And it was the speed (Benzedrine) that put him out of commission. There's a lesson about drugs right there in front of you. Why would anybody want to glorify that? 

[The Heartical Don]

Check out the "God Only Knows" footage from summer '67 in the American Band doc. Brian is smacking his lips quite noticeably. Yes he was frying on speed or coke at this time. And it was the speed (Benzedrine) that put him out of commission. There's a lesson about drugs right there in front of you. Why would anybody want to glorify that? 

Good point, very well made. Thanks!

[The Shift]

If Brian hadn't experienced his pain, would we have gotten Friends?

This idea, that suffering and tragedy might be the ultimate moment of human existence has been at the heart of the work of many artists, from Nietzsche to Akira Kurosawa. Suffering is part of being human, without sorrow there can't be any joy.

If Brian never experienced any pain in his life I doubt he would have been motivated to make art. Sure you may imagine you're being a really sympathetic person when you say you'd spare him of his pain, but but sparing him of pain you're also sparing him of joy, you're sparing him of his humanity.

I'm really uneasy with the implications of this hair shirt, "no gain without pain" nonsense.

I agree that plenty of great art has perhaps had a painful genesis and that its creators have often gone through hell to produce something the rest of us can marvel at.

But you seem to be proposing that the gain is greater than the pain endured by the individual artist.

No-one wants to live in a world without great art.

But to take your premise to its logical conclusion maybe we should be torturing babies now in the hope that they'll produce something breathtaking and artistic before their 25th birthday.

Can we start the Sandbox poll over again?

[Bill Tobelman]

I just would like to mention that one of my favorite Beach Boys albums: the one that won me over was actually just 1/2 an album because it used to just sit on my record player with side 2 facing up.

It was the Beach Boys Today record and side 2 had some of Brian's pot songs on it. I'm not saying this to glorify drug use but to glorify those great songs and note that there was such usage involved with the writing of these songs.

I much prefer these songs to the Beatles' Help & Rubber Soul pot platters.

The SMiLE music was never written under the influence of LSD or anything like that. Brian said "gotta have a clear head" for recording--so the studio was off limits as well for that sort of thing as well.

That being said, SMiLE is suggestive of a state of mind comparable to dreaming. Van Dyke called it a "dream-escape."

Folks have always approached SMiLE on the level of something suggesting a symphony, an American one maybe Aaron Copeland's Billy The Kid or Charles Ives or Gershwin or something.

But what the authors of the piece were going for was along the lines of unconscious thought.

[hypehat]

Bah, shouldn't be so sweary.


But for instance...

I love listening to Holland. Funky Pretty, Mt. Vernon, SOS. All great BW songs. And he was drinking hard cider by the gallon at that time. I call it his 'cider' period. I'm not saying this to glorify alcoholism, but to glorify the great songs and note there was such usage involved with the writing of the songs.

Or,

I freakin' love BW88. At the time, he was under an intense, dangerous, braindamaging regime of prescription medication. His 'xanax' period, if you will. I'm not saying this to glorify prescription drug abuse, but merely to glorify the wonderful music he was making and to acknowledge their presence in his life.

You would never say something like this, would you? Because no-one wrote pretentious books about prescription drugs or dutch cider.