The initial structure of Heroes and Villains

[soniclovenoize]

I'm not sure I'm following you but my understanding is the very late February and very early March sessions are all titled "H&V Part II" and for the #57045 master and they also share the master's session number (14247 through 14247D) for the H&V Part II master. 

They are not listed as Part 2 in the sessionogrophy in the Smile Sessions book.  The only things listed as Part 2 (or similar) are:
Heroes and Villains Part 2 (Bicycle Rider overdubs) - 1/5/67 (57045)
Heroes and Villains: Part 2 (Cantina track) - 1/27/67 (57020)
Heroes and Villains: Part 2 (Gee) - 2/20/67 (57020)
Heroes and Villains: Part 2 Revised - 2/20/67 (57020)
Heroes and Villains: Part 3 (Animals) - 2/20/67 (57020)
Heroes and Villains: Part 4 - 2/20/67 (57020)
Heroes and Villains Part Two (chorus) - 2/28/67 (57045)
Heroes and Villains: Part II Insert - 3/2/67 (57045) [The mastertapes were lost]

That's it.  Only those 8 segments.  The Verse and Fade remakes and Organ Waltz were logged as Heroes and Villains, while still under master # 57045.   

I presume if the master is marked as "Side 2" the sessions for that master would be for "Side 2", the same way the sessions and master takes for master #57020 were for side 1.

1) Unless I am mistaken, there are no mentions of "side 1" anytime of master #57020 on the sessionogrophy or the call-out slates on the sessions themselves.  This would be an assumption.
2) Only one singular piece of master #57045 is called out as "Side 2", not the whole master. 

At least it shows the intention at the time of the recording, Brian apparently changed his mind from his previous intentions occasionally ie. Barnyard, IIGS, cantina, and various numbered sections recorded for the side 1 master #57020. 

According to the Sessionography, Barnyard had a master #56727 and I'm in Great Shape #56738.  Neither were apart of #57020.  And this was in October, when presumably they were a part of Heroes and Villains!  Also note that the first use of master #57045 was for the Bicycle Rider Chorus...  It was master #56729 (a part of Do You Like Worms) but was reassigned to 57045 for this purpose once it had vocals.  Then NO other work was done to it for nearly two months.  What does this tell us?  That master numbers were only temporary until the song was finished and parts were shifted.   

"Part 2" in the title must not mean a second section of the titled track's master because one of the master takes with that "H&V - Part II" master title is also noted as an "intro". 

Do You Like Worms was logged as having 4 parts; My Only Sunshine having 2; Vege-Tables having a Part 4; I Love To Say Dada having two parts.  Why are we using selective logic to say the second parts of H&V were not pieces of a singular song and just a flipside of a single?  Where is the 4-sided Do You Like Worms single?

I don't think it is chasing our tail at all, it seems pretty clearly laid out, identified, and organized at the time to me.  We don't know how the two sided single ended up but Vosse said something like he pretty much knew what it was going to be, nearly finished, when he left in March and didn't Britz say they had a two sided H&V single actually finished?  The H&V side 2 isn't some fan-tasy pulled out of thin air by grasping for evidence, it had witnesses and is documented.  I'm kind of confused by the resistance to the evidence I guess.

We are chasing our tails because I've already laid out why this scenario is not probable.  I've even assembled a test edit of master 57045 and all it sounds like is a complete reboot of Heroes and Villains -- just as Brian had done with the original version of H&V (which Al Kooper claimed to use elements of My Only Sunshine), taped 5/11/67 as master # 55999, and just as Brian had done with Wonderful (the harpsichord version as master 56550 and Rock With me Henry as master 57046).  We knew he was striving to find the song, and it seems obvious that after the 2/15/67 final Cantina version failed to make the cut, he rebooted the song with a new master number -- retroactively using the same master number as a section he set aside nearly two months later.  Of that master, it contained both Parts 1 (Intro and Verse) and Parts 2 (Chorus).  That was scrapped again and revived in June for Smiley Smile, as a new master #56727.  That amounts to four versions of H&V, each with their own master number (55999, 57020, 57045 and 56727). 

And as for Vosse, well, if I was friends with Brian and he played me a session work tape with the 2/10/67 Cantina version followed by the Brian's 2/20/67 Gee & Variations test edit I'd think it was a 6-minute/two-sided single too! 

[Bicyclerider]

Also while it has been reported Britz said in an interview that there was a finished side 1 and 2 , does anyone have this interview in print or on line?  Because I've never seen it and since it seems to be used to support the two sided single theory unless someone can produce the quote I think it needs to be discounted as evidence - second hand " Britz said to someone at sometime" without a check able reference is not evidence that meets any kind of reliability test.

[Cam Mott]

Also while it has been reported Britz said in an interview that there was a finished side 1 and 2 , does anyone have this interview in print or on line?  Because I've never seen it and since it seems to be used to support the two sided single theory unless someone can produce the quote I think it needs to be discounted as evidence - second hand " Britz said to someone at sometime" without a check able reference is not evidence that meets any kind of reliability test.

I can't find my copy but my memory is it was a quote in the Preiss book(could have been Lockert).

[Bicyclerider]

That's a coincidence because my copy has been missing for several years, it must be someplace but I've looked and can't find it.  Perhaps some board member with a copy could check?  My memory is that Britz was never quoted directly in the book . . .

[Cam Mott]

That's a coincidence because my copy has been missing for several years, it must be someplace but I've looked and can't find it.  Perhaps some board member with a copy could check?  My memory is that Britz was never quoted directly in the book . . .

Maybe our copies eloped.

My memory was a quote by Britz (or maybe Lockert) discussing how they had a finished cool two sided single which Brian remodeled into the released single. Aren't there quotes sort of isolated in boxes throughout that book? It seems like it was one of those.  It will be interesting to see how far off my memory is if someone has a copy that hasn't run off.

[Cam Mott]

 

They are not listed as Part 2 in the sessionogrophy in the Smile Sessions book.  The only things listed as Part 2 (or similar) are:

I think Craig was trying to give some background with those notes, I believe this is the way they are actually logged by “Session No.” under “TITLE OF TUNES” by “Master No.” on the AFMs:

“Heroes and Villains - Part 2”: (“Side 2”): 1/5/67 (57045/Session # 14247)

“Heroes and Villains”: 1/27/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”:  2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”: 2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”:  2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”: 2/20/67 (57020)

“Heroes and Villains - Part II”: 2/27/67 (57045/Session # 14247A)
“Heroes and Villains - Part II Insert”: 2/28/67 (57045/Session # 14247B)
“Heroes and Villains - Part II”: 3/1/67 (57045/Session # 14247C)
“Heroes and Villains, Part II (Insert)”: 3/2/67 (57045/Session # 14247D)

I think there is confusion between what is a title of a entire master and what is a numeric order note of a single section of a master.

1) Unless I am mistaken, there are no mentions of "side 1" anytime of master #57020 on the sessionogrophy or the call-out slates on the sessions themselves.  This would be an assumption.
2) Only one singular piece of master #57045 is called out as "Side 2", not the whole master.

I believe it is a fact that #57020 was from December 19 through to the released single and still is the master of the side 1 of the H&V single even without a single note about it being for the master for side 1, which makes it even more significant that the #57045 H&V Part 2 master is identified as “Side 2”. 
I believe that one note identifies the H&V Part 2 title, the #57045 master number, and the session number sequence 14247 through 14247D as “Side 2”.

According to the Sessionography, Barnyard had a master #56727 and I'm in Great Shape #56738.  Neither were apart of #57020.  And this was in October, when presumably they were a part of Heroes and Villains!  Also note that the first use of master #57045 was for the Bicycle Rider Chorus...  It was master #56729 (a part of Do You Like Worms) but was reassigned to 57045 for this purpose once it had vocals.  Then NO other work was done to it for nearly two months.  What does this tell us?  That master numbers were only temporary until the song was finished and parts were shifted.

   

As I’ve said the master numbers for H&V became consistent and consecutive beginning December 19 even as two separate concurrent masters from January 5 though March 2. The reason doesn't matter but I assume he worked on each master as he was able or inspired when he could, touring and studio availability were issues and there seems to be some consideration about how much of SMiLE to give away on side 2 of the H&V single.  Would that be more of a concern if you were going to give away a single song from the album or if you were giving away some sort of suite or sampler of modified tracks from several songs from the album?

We are chasing our tails because I've already laid out why this scenario is not probable.

I’m don’t feel like I’m chasing my tail (that could change), I disagree with your scenario.  It’s pretty simple and straightforward to me.

And as for Vosse, well, if I was friends with Brian and he played me a session work tape with the 2/10/67 Cantina version followed by the Brian's 2/20/67 Gee & Variations test edit I'd think it was a 6-minute/two-sided single too! 

“So, in the studio, things were going off and on: the album was moving very slowly, and it missed its Christmas release - so at that point they decided to concentrate on the single, "Heroes and Villains" – of which there must have been a dozen versions. The best version I heard, which was never completed, but at least I could see the form of it, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes. It was a beautifully structured work; and Van Dyke was still very involved.”  Michael Vosse

Whatever he heard it must have included some or all of the master takes recorded for the “H&V – Part 2” “side 2” #57045 master for the H&V single. 

Someone could ask Van Dyke if he remembers anything about a two sided H&V single.

[thorgil]

I tried to follow the lore about H & V, but had to throw the sponge. Too complex, too many variables. I think H & V is a fractal enigma, like Smile itself. The complexity of any part equals the complexity of the whole.
For me, the "definitive" H & V was the one-two punch in tracks 19 and 20 of Disc 2 in the 1993 GV boxset. Before, I had never known that such a thing as Smile might have existed, let alone a thousand alternate versions of H & V.
Tracks 19 and 20, a new musical world opened to me. I wasn't simply believing what was pouring out of the headphones, and it's still my most exhilarating experience as a music listener. And, of course, H & V has two parts: track 19 and track 20. Not only for me, as that structure was reproduced in the H & V "single" vinyl in 2011.

[soniclovenoize]

I think Craig was trying to give some background with those notes, I believe this is the way they are actually logged by “Session No.” under “TITLE OF TUNES” by “Master No.” on the AFMs:

“Heroes and Villains - Part 2”: (“Side 2”): 1/5/67 (57045/Session # 14247)

“Heroes and Villains”: 1/27/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”:  2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”: 2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”:  2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”: 2/20/67 (57020)

“Heroes and Villains - Part II”: 2/27/67 (57045/Session # 14247A)
“Heroes and Villains - Part II Insert”: 2/28/67 (57045/Session # 14247B)
“Heroes and Villains - Part II”: 3/1/67 (57045/Session # 14247C)
“Heroes and Villains, Part II (Insert)”: 3/2/67 (57045/Session # 14247D)

Do you have a source for this? 

I believe it is a fact that #57020 was from December 19 through to the released single and still is the master of the side 1 of the H&V single even without a single note about it being for the master for side 1, which makes it even more significant that the #57045 H&V Part 2 master is identified as “Side 2”. 

But the 57045 piece labeled Part 2/Side 2 was used with the 57020 verses that you assume are Side 1 as one edit.  How does that work? 

As I’ve said the master numbers for H&V became consistent and consecutive beginning December 19 even as two separate concurrent masters from January 5 though March 2. The reason doesn't matter but I assume he worked on each master as he was able or inspired when he could, touring and studio availability were issues and there seems to be some consideration about how much of SMiLE to give away on side 2 of the H&V single.  Would that be more of a concern if you were going to give away a single song from the album or if you were giving away some sort of suite or sampler of modified tracks from several songs from the album?

I'm sorry I'm going to have to disagree with this assessment.  He wasn't doing two masters at the same time.  He would start one and then drop it, using a new master when starting over.  Just like other songs of the project.  They were not concurrent, they were consecutive. 

“So, in the studio, things were going off and on: the album was moving very slowly, and it missed its Christmas release - so at that point they decided to concentrate on the single, "Heroes and Villains" – of which there must have been a dozen versions. The best version I heard, which was never completed, but at least I could see the form of it, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes. It was a beautifully structured work; and Van Dyke was still very involved.”  Michael Vosse

If I was friends with Brian and he played me a session work tape with the 2/10/67 Cantina version followed by the Brian's 2/20/67 Gee & Variations test edit I'd think it was a 6-minute/two-sided single too!

[Cam Mott]

I think Craig was trying to give some background with those notes, I believe this is the way they are actually logged by “Session No.” under “TITLE OF TUNES” by “Master No.” on the AFMs:

“Heroes and Villains - Part 2”: (“Side 2”): 1/5/67 (57045/Session # 14247)

“Heroes and Villains”: 1/27/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”:  2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”: 2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”:  2/20/67 (57020)
“Heroes and Villains”: 2/20/67 (57020)

“Heroes and Villains - Part II”: 2/27/67 (57045/Session # 14247A)
“Heroes and Villains - Part II Insert”: 2/28/67 (57045/Session # 14247B)
“Heroes and Villains - Part II”: 3/1/67 (57045/Session # 14247C)
“Heroes and Villains, Part II (Insert)”: 3/2/67 (57045/Session # 14247D)

Do you have a source for this?  

I believe it is a fact that #57020 was from December 19 through to the released single and still is the master of the side 1 of the H&V single even without a single note about it being for the master for side 1, which makes it even more significant that the #57045 H&V Part 2 master is identified as “Side 2”.  

But the 57045 piece labeled Part 2/Side 2 was used with the 57020 verses that you assume are Side 1 as one edit.  How does that work?  

As I’ve said the master numbers for H&V became consistent and consecutive beginning December 19 even as two separate concurrent masters from January 5 though March 2. The reason doesn't matter but I assume he worked on each master as he was able or inspired when he could, touring and studio availability were issues and there seems to be some consideration about how much of SMiLE to give away on side 2 of the H&V single.  Would that be more of a concern if you were going to give away a single song from the album or if you were giving away some sort of suite or sampler of modified tracks from several songs from the album?

I'm sorry I'm going to have to disagree with this assessment.  He wasn't doing two masters at the same time.  He would start one and then drop it, using a new master when starting over.  Just like other songs of the project.  They were not concurrent, they were consecutive.  

“So, in the studio, things were going off and on: the album was moving very slowly, and it missed its Christmas release - so at that point they decided to concentrate on the single, "Heroes and Villains" – of which there must have been a dozen versions. The best version I heard, which was never completed, but at least I could see the form of it, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes. It was a beautifully structured work; and Van Dyke was still very involved.”  Michael Vosse

If I was friends with Brian and he played me a session work tape with the 2/10/67 Cantina version followed by the Brian's 2/20/67 Gee & Variations test edit I'd think it was a 6-minute/two-sided single too!

The AFM Recording Contracts from the sessions.

It was used after the fact in June in the master for the released single, which wouldn't change its intention or status as for the #57045 "Side 2" master in January and/or late February and early March.  It was for side 2 when side 2 was being created but used a different way when the 2 sided single was dropped is how I assume it worked.

I disagree, not really like other songs and they were concurrent.  The #57020 master was recorded from December 19 through June 14, and the #57045 master was recorded from January 5 through March 2.

Luckily for us, it was Vosse who heard it and knew it was actually the two sides of an H&V single.  

Can no one reading this thread find their copy of the Preiss book?  Anyone volunteer to ask VDP about a two sided H&V single?

[soniclovenoize]

The AFM Recording Contracts from the sessions.

It was used after the fact in June in the master for the released single, which wouldn't change its intention or status as for the #57045 "Side 2" master in January and/or late February and early March.  It was for side 2 when side 2 was being created but used a different way when the 2 sided single was dropped is how I assume it worked.

I disagree, not really like other songs and they were concurrent.  The #57020 master was recorded from December 19 through June 14, and the #57045 master was recorded from January 5 through March 2.

Luckily for us, it was Vosse who heard it and knew it was actually the two sides of an H&V single.  

Can no one reading this thread find their copy of the Preiss book?  Anyone volunteer to ask VDP about a two sided H&V single?

Where can we see the contracts?  Do you have them in front of you or is this "what you believe"?

Fair enough.

I disagree.  They are not concurrent when Brian stopped working on one entirely and shifted attention, then dropped that entirely again for something else.  That is consecutive.

Read the quote again.  He is offering his opinion.  There is not fact stated.  It was "clear to him" from listening to six minutes of.... something.  And, as I said, I would come to the same conclusion if I heard the 3 min Cantina mix and another 2 or 3 minutes of Brian's edits of the Gee Variations. 

[Cam Mott]

The AFM Recording Contracts from the sessions.

It was used after the fact in June in the master for the released single, which wouldn't change its intention or status as for the #57045 "Side 2" master in January and/or late February and early March.  It was for side 2 when side 2 was being created but used a different way when the 2 sided single was dropped is how I assume it worked.

I disagree, not really like other songs and they were concurrent.  The #57020 master was recorded from December 19 through June 14, and the #57045 master was recorded from January 5 through March 2.

Luckily for us, it was Vosse who heard it and knew it was actually the two sides of an H&V single.  

Can no one reading this thread find their copy of the Preiss book?  Anyone volunteer to ask VDP about a two sided H&V single?

Where can we see the contracts?  Do you have them in front of you or is this "what you believe"?

Fair enough.

I disagree.  They are not concurrent when Brian stopped working on one entirely and shifted attention, then dropped that entirely again for something else.  That is consecutive.

Read the quote again.  He is offering his opinion.  There is not fact stated.  It was "clear to him" from listening to six minutes of.... something.  And, as I said, I would come to the same conclusion if I heard the 3 min Cantina mix and another 2 or 3 minutes of Brian's edits of the Gee Variations. 

Some are around, some are in Badman's book, and the Smile box, etc, as are tapebox labels and so forth.  I was given a stack of copies of the contracts (a few are transcriptions of contracts), Capitol sheets, long ago and there are more than I have now it seems.

Fair enough.

OK, we will disagree.  He couldn't record two different recordings at the same time for different masters but #57020 was on-going before, during, and after the #57045 sessions, so they were concurrent.

He is stating as fact that there "was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes".

[soniclovenoize]

Some are around, some are in Badman's book, and the Smile box, etc, as are tapebox labels and so forth.  I was given a stack of copies of the contracts (a few are transcriptions of contracts), Capitol sheets, long ago and there are more than I have now it seems.

Fair enough.

OK, we will disagree.  He couldn't record two different recordings at the same time for different masters but #57020 was on-going before, during, and after the #57045 sessions, so they were concurrent.

He is stating as fact that there "was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes".

The ones we are discussing right now.  I would like to see them, as they would present documentation contrary to what is stated in the Smile book (as the sessions are not noted as for H&V Part 2), and all other documentation I've seen. 

Fair enough.

57020 was ongoing?  It appears the final session under that master was 2/20/67 with Part 4.  Am I wrong?  What were the other parts after that under 57020?

"The best version I heard, which was never completed, but at least I could see the form of it, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes"
He could see the form of it, as in, this is his interpretation of what he had heard.  Wouldn't he have stated "Brain said it should be two sides of a single" if it had happened?  No, he's phrasing it "I could see the form of it" because it's his interpretation, not fact.  Is he right or wrong?  We don't know, but it's important not to misconstrue opinion as fact. 

[Cam Mott]

That's a coincidence because my copy has been missing for several years, it must be someplace but I've looked and can't find it.  Perhaps some board member with a copy could check?  My memory is that Britz was never quoted directly in the book . . .

I'm beginning to doubt my memory that there is a published Britz quote, hopefully someone can check; it may be something that Britz allegedly told to both Paley and Priore separately.

[Cam Mott]

Some are around, some are in Badman's book, and the Smile box, etc, as are tapebox labels and so forth.  I was given a stack of copies of the contracts (a few are transcriptions of contracts), Capitol sheets, long ago and there are more than I have now it seems.

Fair enough.

OK, we will disagree.  He couldn't record two different recordings at the same time for different masters but #57020 was on-going before, during, and after the #57045 sessions, so they were concurrent.

He is stating as fact that there "was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes".

The ones we are discussing right now.  I would like to see them, as they would present documentation contrary to what is stated in the Smile book (as the sessions are not noted as for H&V Part 2), and all other documentation I've seen.  

Fair enough.

57020 was ongoing?  It appears the final session under that master was 2/20/67 with Part 4.  Am I wrong?  What were the other parts after that under 57020?

"The best version I heard, which was never completed, but at least I could see the form of it, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes"
He could see the form of it, as in, this is his interpretation of what he had heard.  Wouldn't he have stated "Brain said it should be two sides of a single" if it had happened?  No, he's phrasing it "I could see the form of it" because it's his interpretation, not fact.  Is he right or wrong?  We don't know, but it's important not to misconstrue opinion as fact.  

Craig did an outstanding job of packing as much info into the booklet as was possible (not trying to quote contract titles at this granular level). If I'm mistaken I'm sure someone will soon correct me but sorry, I'm too busy/lazy to comply with your request.  Others can though.

Fair enough.

There were at least continuing sessions for the #57020 master on June 12, 13, and 14, 1967 (it is in TSS too).

I think we are just going to disagree. Vosse "could see the form of it" and the form "was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes" = straightforward witness.

[Jeff]

Cam- for what it's worth, you're not a lone wolf on this.  While I differ from you on some other things, I think you have some sound arguments on H&V 2.  It's a bit nostalgic to see this still being argued, 20 years or so after people were wrangling over this on the Smile Shop.

Sonic- I've been meaning to ask you: What are  your thoughts on the use of Bruiteur's Great Shape and Barnyard, with the demo piano removed?  I believe that you used versions with the piano in.  Was that because you believe that those bits sound better that way, or was it just not something you were focused on?  I'm not sure that I've ever heard Bruiteur's Great Shape and Barnyard, but I'm curious as to whether they are improvements.

[soniclovenoize]

Sonic- I've been meaning to ask you: What are  your thoughts on the use of Bruiteur's Great Shape and Barnyard, with the demo piano removed?  I believe that you used versions with the piano in.  Was that because you believe that those bits sound better that way, or was it just not something you were focused on?  I'm not sure that I've ever heard Bruiteur's Great Shape and Barnyard, but I'm curious as to whether they are improvements.

Honestly, I did my own edit because I knew I could do it!  I don't know which of ours is better because I haven't heard his.  But I think my edit sounds fine and the piano embedded in the vocal track has never distracted me from the song itself. 

With that said--and note I haven't heard what Bruiteur did and I don't know what method he used--I am not a fan of EQ filtering the vocal tracks.  The reason is that the human voice covers a large chunk of the frequency spectrum, and if you try to EQ out the piano you will surely also lose a crucial band of the vocal.  I would rather have a piano bleed than missing frequencies in the vocal, you know?  I also very much dislike digital remnants of some frequency extraction VSTs.  The official stereo "Good Vibrations" sounds pretty great but I've heard other fan-made things that sounded bad. 

[Jeff]

Thanks Sonic.  I agree that the piano actually sounds fine.  And while I'm no audio engineer, it makes sense that something significant in the vocals would be lost along with the removal of bits of piano.

[Cam Mott]

I recently discovered something that probably shows Capitol had an expectation of a early to mid-January release of a version of H&V.  The following new Capitol singles were all shown in Billboard's issue from January 21 1967 on page 14 under "Spotlight Singles" and they all bracketed the Capitol number 5626 assigned to the H&V single. I also included the earliest radio chart dates I could find where I could find it.

#5815 Norma Lee - Please World

#5816 The Classics IV - Little Darlin'  (HB on WJOT Jan. 16 1967)

#5818 Brothers And Sisters - The Ali Shuffle – supposedly released Jan 2 1967

#5819 Four Preps - Love Of The Common People (#31 on WTAC Jan 19 1967)

#5820 Matthew Moore - Come On (David Marks on guitar)

#5821 Willie Harvey - Hitchhike Back To Georgia

#5822 Jean Shepard - My Momma Didn't Raise No Fools (charted KFRM Jan 29 1967)

#5823 Matt Monro - The Lady Smiles

#5824 Lou Rawls - Trouble Down Here Below (#54 on WMCA January 19 1967)

#5825 Al Martino - Daddy's Little Girl  (#49 on WMCA January 19 1967)

#5826 Capitol's assigned number for the H&V single

#5828 Stan Kenton - Spanish Eyes

#5829 The Hearts And Flowers - Road To Nowhere

[Cam Mott]

RE. H&V A & B side single, I’m thinking there isn’t a direct quote by Chuck Britz, yet anyway.  I think I was probably confabulating these two quotes by Britz and Lockert:


"It was done like 'Good Vibrations'; it was just one hell of a song. It was a great song. Then, I understand, they went up to his home, and they did a lot of things. They cut it and inserted an organ down at the bottom of pool to get the pool quality. They did all kinds of things, but I think basically it could have been as good a classic as 'Good Vibrations' or better. Our (version) ran about five or six minutes; it was just a further step from 'Good Vibrations'. It had some great melodic lines. The arrangement was so full, and it was just something that I was very disappointed in when I heard the final product."
 
Chuck Britz  (p. 114, Leaf)


"We had the complete song, but they just wanted to use part of it. Brian wanted to change what had been done on the rest of it. I think he wanted instrumentally and vocally to make it more complex. I think he wanted to finish the song, it was a challenge to him. We went and re-recorded (from where we started off the old tape) the rest of the song at the studio in the house. We did the parts and the music tracks and most of the guys played their own instruments. It was done in pieces and the vocals were done to complete the song."
 
Jim Lockert  (p. ?, Preiss)


I also understand that supposedly:  “Andy Paley asked Chuck in the late 80's whether there was such a track. Dominic Priore wanted to know if there was a H&V Part 2 and had Andy ask Chuck. At the time, Brad's article had not been changed, so it was still in the theory stages. Chuck said that he DID remember there being a two-part H&V and that the song was one of the longer songs that he remembered doing with Brian. Now, in the early 90's, Dominic met Chuck himself and had the chance to ask him that question again (just to see if he still held the same thoughts) and a few more questions. So, he asked Chuck again about a two-part H&V and Chuck said the same thing about it. Plus, Dominic and Chuck got into a little rant about how so many R&B artists had already cut two-part songs way before that.”

I contacted Andy about it through his website but haven’t heard anything yet.  Anyone else have more direct contact with Andy?

So nothing solid from Britz yet, but plenty of other solid evidence even without it.