Beach Boys "Fun Fun Fun" at Dodger Stadium

[Aegir]

I thought it was cool. Scott and John are just as much deserving of being there as Jeff is.

[The Shift]

There's a lot of twaddle currently being rolled out among some good posts. We have to bear in mind that the BBs have augmented their on-stage vocals for decades -  not just with Jeff but with Billy H, various Dragons and many, many others, and no-one's ever got their vest in a twist over it.  Horns and other instruments have taken on vocal parts where the impact is needed (Darlin' springs to mind esp). Can't see any need at all for Surfer Girl's four-part harmony to remain a four part harmony and not be a three, five or six part harmony – there's nothing in the statute book that says it's four parts or someone does time.  The only issue here is taste and objectivity vs subjectivity. The BBs can do what they like in my book – the only requirement, really, for pleasing the audience at these shows is BLOCK harmony - punters are going for the spectacle of the original BBs on stage together, with lush harmonies all over the evening. No-one's going to be listening with dog ears and grumbling "ooh, that twelfth-octave resonant B-flat semi-chord wasn't done just as it was on the LP I bought back in 1825 – I'm heading home".  No-one's really going to notice much if the high notes are hit by someone standing stage-left without a spotlight on them.

Lush, block harmonies (by up to 18 voices), five guys in Hawaiian shirts stage-front, T-shirts for sale in the foyer.  That's Plan A.  I doubt there is a Plan B.

Yes, I'd still rather hear Matt than Jeff.  But that's the second row, behind the Hawaiian shirt front row

[Wylson]

I don't knoW if anyone's noticed, but at the beginning of surfer girl the harmonies sound exactly like the record. That ooooooooh is so Beach Boys.

[Phoenix]

I have no problem with them adding extra voices to thicken the stack but the "additional additional singers" seemed odd (if not a bit unnecessary) for such a stripped down performance and Mike described "Surfer Girl" as "four part harmony" in his interview, just before they went out to sing it. 

Now granted, the following clip is a bit old now but there's no Billy or anyone else augmenting them here.  It's simply "The Beach Boys".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4eNAZxl0M

[The Shift]

I have no problem with them adding extra voices to thicken the stack but the "additional additional singers" seemed odd (if not a bit unnecessary) for such a stripped down performance and Mike described "Surfer Girl" as "four part harmony" in his interview, just before they went out to sing it. 

Now granted, the following clip is a bit old now but there's no Billy or anyone else augmenting them here.  It's simply "The Beach Boys".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4eNAZxl0M

Well whew, Brian was looking particularly ripped over there on the left…

[Phoenix]

Check my post at the bottom of the previous page.  For whatever reason, right or wrong, the group treats Jeff now as they treated Matt back then.  On Home Improvement, etc, Billy and the others in the back up band didn't appear, just the actual members and the falsetto guy.  Matt was referred to as one of the Beach Boys, not "We're the Beach Boys, and that's Al's son.  He sings the really high parts we're kinda known for but isn't a member of the band.")  That's why I put "The Beach Boys" in quotes. 

[I. Spaceman]

There's a lot of twaddle currently being rolled out among some good posts. We have to bear in mind that the BBs have augmented their on-stage vocals for decades -  not just with Jeff but with Billy H, various Dragons and many, many others, and no-one's ever got their vest in a twist over it.  Horns and other instruments have taken on vocal parts where the impact is needed (Darlin' springs to mind esp). Can't see any need at all for Surfer Girl's four-part harmony to remain a four part harmony and not be a three, five or six part harmony – there's nothing in the statute book that says it's four parts or someone does time.  The only issue here is taste and objectivity vs subjectivity. The BBs can do what they like in my book – the only requirement, really, for pleasing the audience at these shows is BLOCK harmony - punters are going for the spectacle of the original BBs on stage together, with lush harmonies all over the evening. No-one's going to be listening with dog ears and grumbling "ooh, that twelfth-octave resonant B-flat semi-chord wasn't done just as it was on the LP I bought back in 1825 – I'm heading home".  No-one's really going to notice much if the high notes are hit by someone standing stage-left without a spotlight on them.

Lush, block harmonies (by up to 18 voices), five guys in Hawaiian shirts stage-front, T-shirts for sale in the foyer.  That's Plan A.  I doubt there is a Plan B.

Yes, I'd still rather hear Matt than Jeff.  But that's the second row, behind the Hawaiian shirt front row

Augmentation isn't the problem, it is the decentralisation of the Boys' own voices that folks are pissed about. Surely you realise this. It is getting to the point where if you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know if any Beach Boys were actually there.

[Autotune]

There's a lot of twaddle currently being rolled out among some good posts. We have to bear in mind that the BBs have augmented their on-stage vocals for decades -  not just with Jeff but with Billy H, various Dragons and many, many others, and no-one's ever got their vest in a twist over it.  Horns and other instruments have taken on vocal parts where the impact is needed (Darlin' springs to mind esp). Can't see any need at all for Surfer Girl's four-part harmony to remain a four part harmony and not be a three, five or six part harmony – there's nothing in the statute book that says it's four parts or someone does time.  The only issue here is taste and objectivity vs subjectivity. The BBs can do what they like in my book – the only requirement, really, for pleasing the audience at these shows is BLOCK harmony - punters are going for the spectacle of the original BBs on stage together, with lush harmonies all over the evening. No-one's going to be listening with dog ears and grumbling "ooh, that twelfth-octave resonant B-flat semi-chord wasn't done just as it was on the LP I bought back in 1825 – I'm heading home".  No-one's really going to notice much if the high notes are hit by someone standing stage-left without a spotlight on them.

Lush, block harmonies (by up to 18 voices), five guys in Hawaiian shirts stage-front, T-shirts for sale in the foyer.  That's Plan A.  I doubt there is a Plan B.

Yes, I'd still rather hear Matt than Jeff.  But that's the second row, behind the Hawaiian shirt front row

Augmentation isn't the problem, it is the decentralisation of the Boys' own voices that folks are pissed about. Surely you realise this. It is getting to the point where if you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know if any Beach Boys were actually there.

Exactly. You can have a 1000-people choir sing four part harmony. Or two part harmony.

[D409]

I have no problem with them adding extra voices to thicken the stack but the "additional additional singers" seemed odd (if not a bit unnecessary) for such a stripped down performance and Mike described "Surfer Girl" as "four part harmony" in his interview, just before they went out to sing it. 

Now granted, the following clip is a bit old now but there's no Billy or anyone else augmenting them here.  It's simply "The Beach Boys".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4eNAZxl0M

Sorry, who is the mullet-headed merchant of falsetto next to Bruce ?

[Aegir]

that's Matt Jardine.

[Lowbacca]

Love that clip. Plus, it's got Bruce in shorts.

[The Shift]

There's a lot of twaddle currently being rolled out among some good posts. We have to bear in mind that the BBs have augmented their on-stage vocals for decades -  not just with Jeff but with Billy H, various Dragons and many, many others, and no-one's ever got their vest in a twist over it.  Horns and other instruments have taken on vocal parts where the impact is needed (Darlin' springs to mind esp). Can't see any need at all for Surfer Girl's four-part harmony to remain a four part harmony and not be a three, five or six part harmony – there's nothing in the statute book that says it's four parts or someone does time.  The only issue here is taste and objectivity vs subjectivity. The BBs can do what they like in my book – the only requirement, really, for pleasing the audience at these shows is BLOCK harmony - punters are going for the spectacle of the original BBs on stage together, with lush harmonies all over the evening. No-one's going to be listening with dog ears and grumbling "ooh, that twelfth-octave resonant B-flat semi-chord wasn't done just as it was on the LP I bought back in 1825 – I'm heading home".  No-one's really going to notice much if the high notes are hit by someone standing stage-left without a spotlight on them.

Lush, block harmonies (by up to 18 voices), five guys in Hawaiian shirts stage-front, T-shirts for sale in the foyer.  That's Plan A.  I doubt there is a Plan B.

Yes, I'd still rather hear Matt than Jeff.  But that's the second row, behind the Hawaiian shirt front row

Augmentation isn't the problem, it is the decentralisation of the Boys' own voices that folks are pissed about. Surely you realise this. It is getting to the point where if you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know if any Beach Boys were actually there.

Exactly. You can have a 1000-people choir sing four part harmony. Or two part harmony.

Of the audiences on this tour, probably 1% or less would know the difference.  I'm all for the BBs' voices being central and I believe they should be. Jeff F's voice is alien to the blend to my ears and I hope it's toned down in future mixes.

But be prepared for otherwise.  Don't let's delude ourselves that the outfit going on the road is in the same shape as it was in '61, or '63, or '67, or '72, or '80 or '90.  My dad used to be something of a runner. Now he walks with a stick.

[Ron]

Let's also not delude ourselves into thinking we know more than 99% of the people.

[guitarfool2002]

double post - sorry

[guitarfool2002]

You could also make the decentralisation-augmentation argument with the Who after John Entwistle died, or even after Keith Moon died - 2 of the 4 key elements of that band's sound are gone, so they brought in other musicians and toured and recorded new songs with new "voices" in the band.

Or just contain this to The Beach Boys - let's put it out there honestly - who have not been a core band of 5 guys on stage since Hawaii, 1967. That's over 40 years of augmenting/changing the sound of the core band with other talents, and that's what fans have been getting at live shows for those 40 years. It's surprising to see it being raised as an issue now, after a baseball performance, when it's been the band's M.O. for 5 decades of live performances.

[I. Spaceman]

Of the audiences on this tour, probably 1% or less would know the difference.  

Yeah, and we are not the 99%. Nevertheless, people like us are why The Smile Sessions came out, and if that hadn't happened, it is possible the reunion wouldn't be happening.

[I. Spaceman]

You could also make the decentralisation-augmentation argument with the Who after John Entwistle died, or even after Keith Moon died - 2 of the 4 key elements of that band's sound are gone, so they brought in other musicians and toured and recorded new songs with new "voices" in the band.

Or just contain this to The Beach Boys - let's put it out there honestly - who have not been a core band of 5 guys on stage since Hawaii, 1967. That's over 40 years of augmenting/changing the sound of the core band with other talents, and that's what fans have been getting at live shows for those 40 years. It's surprising to see it being raised as an issue now, after a baseball performance, when it's been the band's M.O. for 5 decades of live performances.

The Who are awful after Keith Moon died. That is obvious.
And again, and this is not hard to comprehend, there is a difference between augmentation and making the original band members effective sidemen in their own live reunion efforts. Not hard to comprehend at all, unless that is, someone WANTS to not comprehend it for some odd passive-aggressive reason.

[guitarfool2002]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

[endofposts]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

The point is, if these guys want to have people buying expensive tickets to their so-called reunion, they need to step up their game.  Yes, some Beach Boys touring outfits of the past featured little of the original Beach Boys, even when some of them were on stage.  But this has to be a little different.  For one thing, Brian needs to participate more than he did during past tours.  Now that he's done entire shows under his own name where he takes lead vocals, he needs to take a large share of leads in these reunion shows.  Without being doubled or drowned out by Jeff Foskett.  I'd rather hear Bruce or Al or Mike or Brian sing than Jeff Foskett.

[guitarfool2002]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

The point is, if these guys want to have people buying expensive tickets to their so-called reunion, they need to step up their game.  Yes, some Beach Boys touring outfits of the past featured little of the original Beach Boys, even when some of them were on stage.  But this has to be a little different.  For one thing, Brian needs to participate more than he did during past tours.  Now that he's done entire shows under his own name where he takes lead vocals, he needs to take a large share of leads in these reunion shows.  Without being doubled or drowned out by Jeff Foskett.  I'd rather hear Bruce or Al or Mike or Brian sing than Jeff Foskett.

I agree with what you said, it should be different for the special nature of a "reunion" tour and I'd like it to be that way with the focus on that core band of Beach Boys. But it's also a bit unrealistic to expect something that hasn't been the case for a few decades of embellishing and doubling vocal parts, and hasn't been the case so far in the several public performances we've seen. It's like setting up a disappointment if we expect something to be handled different than the Grammys or Dodger Stadium - that seems to be the way the vocals will be handled, whether we'd prefer it another way or not.

[Phoenix]

there is a difference between augmentation and making the original band members effective sidemen in their own live reunion efforts. Not hard to comprehend at all, unless that is, someone WANTS to not comprehend it for some odd passive-aggressive reason.

That actually puts it better than my feeble attempt.  Having someone cover the falsetto parts is augmentation. Bring two MORE guys to help sing in a stripped down, nearly accapella performance comes dangerously close to make the original band members effectively sidemen in their own reunion.  Hence, my question about John and Scott at the Dodgers performance.

[I. Spaceman]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

It isn't the same thing, and you very well know it. You're just playing games, same as you always have. There is absolutely no relation between ADDING members to a brew who bring something of their own to the table, and having people onstage DROWNING OUT original members by doubling and tripling parts, mixed louder than the original members' contributions. I know you understand that fundamental difference, you're no idiot.

[Too Much Sugar]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

But, actually, I don't think they have performed this way for years.  In the past, despite bringing in some people to compliment their voices and add something new (Blondie, Ricky, et al.), the vocal foundation and backbone still started and ended with the Beach Boys.  Right now, that's very far from the case.  It's one thing to have someone compliment you, but it's quite another thing when they, mostly, start doing your job and regulate you to sidemen.  Hopefully we'll see something different once the tour starts. 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

There's two sides here, it's quite simple.

Either you want to hear the Beach Boys voices in the mix, or you're not bothered and happy to just hear the sidemen.

No one needs to apologise for, or defend either position. As much as I don't really get the latter point of view, maybe it's just about seeing the guys together.

And I think we'll definitely hear the guys on the new LP, and that to me is the main part of BB50.

[guitarfool2002]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

It isn't the same thing, and you very well know it. You're just playing games, same as you always have. There is absolutely no relation between ADDING members to a brew who bring something of their own to the table, and having people onstage DROWNING OUT original members by doubling and tripling parts, mixed louder than the original members' contributions. I know you understand that fundamental difference, you're no idiot.

Pot, meet kettle.  

I'm saying that the very practice being picked apart here related to the Dodgers performance and the Grammys is what has been going on for years. Obviously the appearances this year were far more obvious, but unfortunately, I hate to say it, that's what we're going to get. It's not much different from any oldies or classic rock band of the type seen on those 60's PBS concerts where "Steppenwolf" was something like John Kay in front of the same house band who had also played "The Hermits" for Peter Noone and The Youngbloods and Grass Roots and whatever other touring bands did those PBS shows.

And the Blondie/Ricky deal was a stretch but it was making a point, because weren't there some groups of fans who felt a similar way about that decision as some do now about the Jeff Foskett thing? That's all I was relating it to - a fan who might ask why wasn't Al or Carl or Dennis or Mike singing Sail On Sailor on that record, or taking a lead in concert? Not that they didn't enhance or bring a new sound to the group, but they weren't original members and that sticks with some people more than others. And others still prefer the recordings where it was just the Beach Boys on the early records, pre-Wrecking Crew and all that - to each his own. It's actually not too far removed from what they're doing now, although my opinion is I'd like nothing better than to have the core group of members doing their own thing warts and all - I doubt that will ever happen and it hasn't for decades. Gotta accept it.

One crucial element we need is knowing more about who is mixing these vocals that way. And, very important, if they are "following orders" or just mixing that way based on their own aesthetics.