The Smiley Smile Message Board

Do Facebook petitions have any effect? Probably not. But if you're on Facebook, why not 'like' the following new page anyway. After all, it's for a good cause!

FACEBOOK:
Petition to get 'Wouldn't It be Nice To Live Again' heard in 2012

(See 'Beach Boys Britain' for a direct link)

Just signed.  :)

Thanks. It might do nothing, but hey who knows? So let's all sign up... It's easy.

I liked the FB page. Does that count as my signature?


Oh, and by the way: how about correct orthography? Might just increase the petition's credibility?

::)

Hey tell that to whoever set up the page to begin with! I just like it and am spreading the word...

Alright, I'll forward that complaint. Sorry.  ;)

I'm not on Facebook, but I'd sure like to see WIBNTLA released!

I don't mean at all to hijack the thread but I wanted to mention that we are almost sold out of LONG PROMISED ROAD, which is where the only version of this song officially released exists...we're having a sell-out party and "50 Sides of the Beach Boys" show this Friday here in Los Angeles which I have posted about elsewhere on SS.  If someone wants to grab a copy of the album before they are gone, they should e-mail me immediately.  I just five minutes ago took inventory in advance of the show and, minus the copies already sold, we have 13 left, and some of those will probably go on Friday.

So, where's the petition again?  Sign me up!  FWIW, I know that there's a lot of desire within some of the BBs camp to get this song out.  It really is one of the more wonderful unreleased Dennis songs we have yet to hear....

(adam marsland)

I signed...er, liked this a while ago  ;D

I personally would much rather have the version of "California Feeling" with Brian Wilson still in his prime on vocals.  But horses for courses.

Me too. Hearing that is on my bucket list.

I'm in.  Bring it on D-Rock!

I want to see it released just so I can see how many of the people who've been clamouring for it to be released hate it once they actually hear it ;)

Isn't it missing the guitar solo?  Instant strike against.

'tis...all three notes of it, repeated for 16 bars.  Mea culpa.

Ha ha! Surely it can't live up to all the hype?

Here's the link to the FB page if it hasn't already been posted:
https://www.facebook.com/WouldntItbeNiceToLiveAgain (https://www.facebook.com/WouldntItbeNiceToLiveAgain)

Personally, I think the chances of both "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" and the 1974 "California Feelin'" being on the box set are really good. Brother and Capitol know what we want, and I'm sure they will give it to us.

And I don't wanna get anybody too excited, but weren't the tracklist and details of the SMiLE release released last August? So I would assume that if the box is coming out this year, that we will probably hear something within the next month. So I'm cautiously optimistic we'll get to hear those two songs this year. Honestly, I think "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" has the better chance to be released seeing as it was very close to being on Surf's Up originally, and then also was penciled in for release on the DVD-A of said album. "California Feelin'", I'm a little less sure of, by virtue of it being a demo. Then again, it's achieved quite a legendary status, and I'm sure BRI and Capitol understand that if they want us to spend big bucks on a new box set, that they'll have to come up with the goods.

And besides those songs, I'm also super excited for stuff that we don't even know of. I figure there has to be at least a few big surprises, like "Surf's Up 1967" was, or even the extra vocals on "Child Is Father Of The Man". There was also the surprising inclusion of two versions of "Da Da", which at least I had no idea existed, not to mention the Smiley Smile-era "Cool, Cool Water". And that was just for SMiLE-related stuff. So I have to imagine there are things that we have no knowledge of that might be included in the box, that will make us very happy.

I'd say the chances of WIBNTLA are high. '74 "California Feelin'", based on recent descriptions, I'm not sure on. C'mon, o sweet one - you and I both know fan demand doesn't necessarily dictate what fans get from another band we've talked about. It feels like it needs too much explanation and apology to see official release. "It's just a demo. Well, it's just Brian playing the song into an open mic. Yeah, Brian's kind of dicking around with the vocal. There are better versions out there. Why didn't we release those? Well, erm..." etc. etc. etc.

Also, missing guitar solo? I can't see something like that ensuring it doesn't see release given how incomplete a lot of Smile tracks were, "Shunshine" seeing release, etc. And the guitar solo being a repeating, three note solo? Sounds like it'd be simple enough to get the right person (maybe David?) in there with the right gear to make it happen. If they can write new lyrics to "Holy Man" and get someone as unlikely as Taylor Hawkins in there and get such good results, surely they could recreate a very simple guitar solo.

I'm not a Facebook member, but I think the petition's a very nice idea.

My only suggestion would be to specify in the wording of the petition that it's the untainted, original 1971 version that is desired by fans. Otherwise, someone upstairs might get some nutty ass idea to rip it apart, put modern overdubs over it, etc, and release it as a "new" BB's track. My feeling is...save that idea for the demos or mostly unfinished tracks. In a word, this one's done (though, if someone absolutely demanded on putting a vintage-sounding guitar solo over the break, I suppose I could live with that -- with only slight protest).  :)

The true significance of WIBNTLA is not that its Dennis' best song, because it isn't. Its that its his best vocal. He simply sings the sh*t out of that song.

Jon, any anecdotal evidence about the circumstances surrounding that vocal?  Because I agree, it's a very good song, and a classic Desper-y production, but the vocal is the highlight.  Not only is it a good vocal in terms of delivery, but Dennis seems to have been very careful about it.  The doubles are really right on, he doesn't try to push the high notes, he backs off to a Carl-like  delivery at times.

It seems like he had been working on vocal technique or something, plus the very careful recording of his voice.  It seems like a perfect storm, and I'm wondering what circumstances were in place that it could turn out so well on so many fronts.

I have not heard any anecdotal info about this session, but I think your assessment of it being a perfect storm is right. I think he's reached a maturity or a confidence level that happened to coincide with his voice being at its peak physical state. His range and power were challenged a bit by this song, and as you say he manages to pull it off not by forcing it, but rather pulling it back in a softer Carl-like approach in places. He also sustains notes with more clarity than usual. Just wish there were more DW vocals of this quality.

Why didn't WIBNTLA appear on the Surf's Up album in 1971?

Sorry if I'm carrying on the hijack but here goes. I don't post here much but have followed the board since before BWPS. Anyways, just wanted to post my love for WIBNTLA in the only form I know it - on Long Promised Road. However, the song I really love on the CD is The Big Bear. It just rocks! Kinda fits the Beach Boys mid-70s nature mysticism though I know its a Marsland original from much later. Not entirely sure what the song's about but that's okay. It's really poetic. So thank you Mr Marsland and your collaborators. Long may you make music!

(Simon Young, UK)

I agree that a certain other band that we like has a knack for doing things that leave the fans cold, but personally I think that it's because that band's leader enjoys dangling those unreachable carrots out in front of the fan's faces. I also think that Mr. Cuomo is also "saving" certain material because he knows he's lost a bit of his fan base, and if everything was out there, there'd be nothing more to wish for, and people like myself would lose interest in his group. And lastly, I just think he likes being a jerk, especially to those who care the most about his work (his own band included).

The Beach Boys, and Brian in particular, at this point, I think are more open to okay things if they are told that's what the fans want. I could see Melinda and a rep from Brother saying, "hey Brian, is it ok if we put this version of 'California Feelin'' on the box set?" And he'd say, "Yeah, sure, ya wanna go get something to eat?"


I'm not an expert on this stuff, but apparently Carl and Dennis got into an argument over the order of the songs that would be on the album, and as a result, Dennis pulled his songs off. I think basically Dennis wanted "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" to be the final track, coming after "'Til I Die". However, Carl was in favor of "Surf's Up", and I can't say I disagree with him. So basically as I see it, Dennis kinda cut off his nose to spite his face.

Carl was looking backwards, Dennis was looking forwards. Carl won. Pity.

Wasn't it Dennis who said something along the lines of "f*** you, Brian. We need this song," when Brian protested them finishing "Surf's Up"? Dennis had to have recognized it as a great song and an important song for the band. Can you really fault Carl for "looking backwards" in wanting to complete one of their absolute best songs?

Where else do you even put "Surf's Up" on an album if not at the end? Carl had it right. The album as is already basically has three tracks that should've closed albums all in a row at the end, one more would've made it even weirder. The best answer would have been to reserve "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" for the next album, but that didn't happen, presumably because Dennis was holding out for his solo album which obviously didn't happen until several years later.

I suppose, politically, it probably would've never happened at the time in a million years in terms of a "bump," but I know where I'll be putting the song on my home-brewed version of Surf's Up (the album) if I'm lucky enough to live long enough for it to see the light of day. For me, it's still going to end "a" side of the LP, and that's where I think it would've actually worked best on the album. "Surf's Up" (the song) does indeed belong as the LP's total closer, IMHO. And at the very least, depending on one's point of view, in the CD age and beyond, "bumps" aren't always necessary to please all sides.

(The ironic thing is...both WIBNTLA and Fourth of July still *probably* could've been added to each side, respectively, at the time, as the album now stands. 12 songs total (like Sunflower) and still just under, or right around 40 minutes total [20 + 20].) 

Very well put.

Why should Carl be faulted with finishing "Surf's Up", one of the best of their career and only four years old at that time, and placing it at the end of an album as per its original intent, again?

They could have re-arranged the track order and put Surf's Up (the track) as the opener. I know everyone thinks of it as the closer and that's the only place it can be fit, but is it really? SU, the album, wasn't SMiLE, so there's no reason it had to finish the album. Imagine the album with Surf's Up as the first track - a breathtaker. You can't say the same for Don't Go Near The Water.

How does the assumption (and as far as I know it is just an assumption) that Surf's Up was to end Smile have anything to do with sequencing a completely different album 4 years later - - remembering that 4 years back then was a much longer gap between albums than what we are accustomed to today.

IIRC Dennis objected to SU's inclusion on the album not just because he wanted the slot for his own song, but because Brian objected to it's inclusion on the album at all; let alone as the final track.

Eh. To me, seems like it'd be an awkward opener, too long to be an opener, and the ending leading into any one of the earlier tracks on the album wouldn't have worked at all. Smile context or not, that's a closing track, to my ears. I don't see how people are so convinced Carl f***ed up by finishing one of their best songs and placing it at the end of the album where it belongs in comparison to a Dennis song they've only heard a cover of, if they've heard it at all. Just me, though.

Don't let Dennis and Carl having what sounds like a somewhat childish fight over the issue confuse things - why does it have to be "Carl destroyed 'Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again' and cheapened the Surf's Up album as we've been told Mike destroyed Smile. Carl is clearly a stubborn asshole"? Why didn't it close Carl & The Passions or Pacific Ocean Blue instead?

I don't think it was an assumption that "Sur's Up" would close Smile. There was some contemporary article or something on Smile stating that "Surf's Up" was, at the time that was printed, meant to close the album. Anyone know what I'm referring to? Can't remember off-hand.

Interesting that you say Dennis didn't want "Surf's Up" released - I'd heard the opposite, as I'd posted above.

Difference of opinion, I guess. I can hear it - Surf's Up as the opening track, with the child coda, and the second track being Long Promised Road. Smooth.

Asking  Al about the song; he had no recollection about it whatsoever.

He said the recording might be one owned by James William Guercio.

Jon - do you know who owns this recording?  BRI? Dennis' estate? Guercio?

Guercio (a member of "Chicago") co-produced LA Light with Bruce 'Historical' Johnston. I don't think he was involved with anything during the Surf's Up era, though.

About two-thirds of the way through, apparently.

Really though seems like it just as easily could have been the closer for Side 1 instead of Side 2.  It would have imparted the same sense of finality and wouldn't have had to have any awkward transitions afterward, given the palate-cleansing act of flipping the record.

That is where I would place it as well. It works best (imo) as a mid-point closer.

Again, why is it "Carl was in charge, but he should have moved where he strongly felt 'Surf's Up' to be because Dennis was being stubborn"? How can we be so sure that Dennis wasn't in the wrong having never heard the proper version, especially when his song is up against the likes of... y'know, "Surf's Up"?

Another thought: Why not two albums in 1971? It could've been done and both could've been pretty solid.

We don't need no stinkin' petition!   This song's gonna be released soon anyway - do or die.

The first time I ever heard the song, my reaction was exactly this:  "Now SURF'S UP makes sense to me."  It really did belong on that album.  Where you would have put it...I don't know.  I think Dennis and Carl were both right.

I think everyone's general sense, based on what very little I have heard, about where the box set is going so far is correct.  But a lot of people have to sign off on a lot of things, so there's no way to know how it will turn out.  I do believe the intent is there to give the fans what they want and that there is some interesting stuff still unheard...but we'll just have to see.  WIBNTLA was supposed to come out years ago, but it got kiboshed.  So there ya go.  :)

Wow.  Simon, thank you so much for that.  That is really, really sweet.  We shall try.  I don't know what the song is about, either, to be honest with you.  I was very tired that day...

Yes! That's what I'm sayin', d00dz.

Curious what your sequence would be Adam if you were the God of all things Beach Boys and time travel.  :P

Yes this is what i remember reading, that Dennis objected to Surf's Up's inclusion because it upset Brian so much. Pity they couldn't have compromised - if Surf' Up really had to close the album then why couldn't WIBNTLA have opened it? If the song is as amazing as is rumoured then presumably it'd have made for a more worthwhile opener than the lightweight DGNTW.

Yep. Have WIBNTLA end side one. Add Fourth Of July to side two. 12 songs total. 40 min. LP (20+20). Nothing need be dropped. Even "Feet" can stay!

In my opinion, WIBNTLA would've been just as epic and conceptually fitting as a side one closer -- with the Charles Lloyd flute work fading off into the ether. Now...would *Mike* have agreed to that, or rather, insisted his rocker close the side? Good question.

I hate to sound like Phil, but I sure hope there still isn't "a lot of things to sign off on" still. Because, if this thing is coming out by, say, November or December, one would assume that all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed by now.

Because I have good reason to suspect that Dennis' unheard early 70s efforts are superlative, and because it stings, as a fan, to know that a mere sequencing kerfuffle stopped his material from being included.  Because I feel Surf's Up is very nearly a great album, and the sense that on evidence both heard and unheard, Dennis' material would have elevated it considerably.  Because in hindsight it seems so plainly evident that any number of workable compromises could (and should) have been arrived at.

Anything would have been better than Student Demonstration Time.

I know VERY little, just heard a few things by osmosis that seem to confirm the general thrust of where people are hoping the box might go.  As far as the politics of it goes I don't know and I don't want to know.  But my uninformed sense is the track listing has not been approved yet.  Do not take that as gospel, however.  I could be totally wrong.  I'm not in the loop in any way.  I just think there's reasons to hope that it's going to be really cool, but history with the band has taught us good intentions don't always make it to the final product.  We'll see.

Yeah, I wouldnʻt think so either but Al mentioned it.  And Guercio has ownership of POB/Bambu stuff, if I recall correctly.

WIBNTLA might be my only reason to buy the new box, beyond the new recordings.

Who wouldn't want WIBNTLA released? And why?

We know a voting member of BRI shot it down for inclusion on The Warmth of The Sun comp.
I think the main reason for that was so that another track could be included, so there were more royalties for that voting member? I'm not sure of that, someone made that connection here previously.

Yeah, I think I read that somewhere. Of course, that would just be ONE voting member. How many voting members are there and does it take just one vote to shoot down a proposal?

Gosh, a voting member who would vote for more money for himself over something related to Dennis Wilson. GOSHWHOCOULDTHATPOSSIBLYBE.

It probably doesn't require Columbo to crack this case.

And, we're talking about a song that originally went unreleased because the "artist" didn't like where it appeared on the album.

Voting member of BRI, though. Wouldn't that exclude the person you folks are alleging voted against it?

I feel a bit thick here because I honestly don't know who you are inferring.  :lol

It's honestly the one single track I want.  Obviously, anything else from the vaults (especially things that haven't shown up before) would be much appreciated...but I almost feel like I MUST have this track!  I've always wanted to program my own "Surf's Up" as Dennis intended.  I hope the surviving voting members can look beyond their own bank accounts and throw a bone to the fanatics who have helped keep their music alive for 50 years!

And what about 4th of July.. i mean, we know the song, but it's really a shame i didn't made the record, damn that's a lovely song and a beautiful voice...

Well, when they finally give us WIBNTLA we can finally compile Surf's Up with those two added tracks.  It's a good LP on it's own...but with those two Dennis tracks I think it becomes one of their best ever.

WIBNTLA is definitely on my list of NEED to hear songs, but I gotta say, hearing Brian's 1975 home demo of "In The Back Of My Mind" would be a dream come true.

I think I would like to hear WIBNTLA, Dr. Tom, Funky Fever, In The Back-1975, Lucy Jones, and of course California Feelin-1974 the most. Actually any Dennis songs not heard would be amazing to me. 

As long as the foot song and the Riot in Cell Block 9 rewrite are excised.  Otherwise, the punch might be great, but the turds in the bowl still stink it up.

"Feet" kicks ass. I don't want to live in a world where people feel otherwise.

I wish they would just go ahead and release all the unbootleged stuff. Its better to let the fans who want to hear it actually hear it then to let it collect dust in a vault somewhere.

Yer not part of my world then.  In fact, you may want to consider giving up anything related to music.

BTW, if it wasn't obvious, that was my attempt to channel I-Spaceman, or whatever his/her/its name is...

Exactly. They should have acollectors label like Elvis Presley does. Alan or AGD would do a great job with it I bet.

They can fill the remainder of the boxset up with Mike and Bruce compilations as far as i'm concerned, just so long as we get WIBNTLA then i'll be happy!
Incidentally, if it weren't included, can anyone think of any rational, justifiable reason for it being excluded besides petty jealousy amongst certain surviving members (jealousy of  man who died almost thirty years ago!)? Seriously, what possible reason besides that could their be for not letting us have it? (I'm not saying that would be the reason, only that i can't think of a more realistic explanation.) I just hope they realise how dreadful it's going to make them look if they opt to pass it up for release yet again... Come on Brian, this is your Brother! Put your foot down and insist!

A voting member of BRI...
Or...surprise... Lovester?
The member who want to mantain a shadow over Dennis's legacy and work.

Al was definite in telling me that "50 Big Ones" will have new recordings but NOT "WIBNTLA". We can only hope "50BOs" is a greatest hits package and not the box.

1) one vote does not overrule three or four others

2) there are many reasons to leave a song out of an album or comp. We should know that by now. Sometimes the reasons remain unknown to the fans; sometimes, when unearthed, they end up being very personal and unexpected reasons.

3) I'm afraid WIBNTLA becomes the next "Lazy Lizzie", "Little Red Book", or "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", i.e. songs hyped up by the superfans that heard them and then make you go meh.

You might be right...but Dennis really wanted it to close out the LP after "'Til I Die" and I would so love to hear how that would have sounded.

What Surf's Up is lacking...and what prevents it from being a truly great LP...is Dennis.  We've gotten "4th of July"...come on guys...give us WIBNTLA!

Good point, but I do believe there's a key difference here. That is, most fans have already heard the song itself through the Adam/Evie version and have a pretty good handle on what it sounds like. Considering that Adam himself has stated that the cover is virtually a faithful one, save for a few small points, it isn't too hard to mentally fill in the blanks and imagine what Dennis's lead vocal would sound like, circa 1971 -- a vocal that more than one person has stated is *easily* the best Dennis ever did. Couple that with the fact that we've got Brian and Carl doing harmonies for it, during an era that most I'm sure would like to hear from Brian, it ends up being just one more thing to mentally imagine (Note: we've also had pretty good descriptions of the individual, respective vocal parts from Brian, Carl and Mike).

As for that song itself? I love it. Lyrically, it has the sentiment and imagery that one would expect from a Dennis song. I love the structure of the melody as well. I'm also interested to hear how far we'll get to hear the track go on (i.e. we've been told that the unedited band track goes on for nearly 7 minutes, with Charles Lloyd continuing on after that). Though, my uneducated guess would be that it would probably be close to the structured 3:25 version that is Adam's.

So, is it possible it won't live up to the hype? Of course. But, for me, it doesn't have to be the greatest, most stupendous, most super-duper Dennis/BB's song ever. Just the solid, prime-era Dennis and band performance and tune that I *know* it will be from what I've *heard* so far, and from what I've come to expect from that time in the band's musical history. IMHO, this was Dennis during his absolute peak as a performer, and arguably as a composer too, so I'm definitely in.


PS - Personally speaking again, I didn't go "meh" after hearing Soulful Old Man Sunshine. In fact, just the opposite. Of course, others mileage may vary. :)

That won't happen with this one.

You won't, if you have a mortal soul. I don't, and it still knocked me on my ass.

This song can not live up to the insane amount of hype behind it coupled with how long it's been. No song could, really. I'm sure it'll be good or great, but man.

And come on - I don't think Mike is a voting member of BRI or know why or how he would be. I don't even know who would be a part of that sans two people. The politics that go on with this band kind of annoy me, but I guess it's necessary, sadly.

As for assuming it was Mike, are there any other instances of Mike, in a fit of jealousy, somehow blocking the release of a Dennis track? I don't think so. I doubt Mike is still especially jealous of his cousin who died 30 years ago.

The voting members of BRI are as follows:

Michael Edward Love
Alan Charles Jardine
Brian Douglas Wilson
the estate of Carl Dean Wilson.

The identity of who vetoed the track for inclusion on TWOTS is known to a select few.

I'm just going to assume it was Mike as i can't think of any sane reason why Al, Brian or Carl's estate would object to its inclusion, whereas Mike... well, Dennis did shag his daughter...

This is a little odd - Al is a voting member of BRI, and when the track came up for selection on The Warmth of The Sun, wouldn't he have had to either accept or reject it? Al claimed only weeks ago to a forum member that he didn't even know what "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" was.

Welp, I stand corrected. What EcoHanger just said is true, though - interesting.

Edit: To play devil's advocate, a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased track would have been an odd inclusion on a greatest hits album. On the other hand, this song probably should have been released ages upon ages ago.

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Brian was the BRI member who vetoed WIBNTLA and I wouldn't assume that his intentions with his veto were malicious. Could be he had other plans for it.

I've been on four different message boards since 1997. Not once have I ever seen "Lazy Lizzy" hyped. I like the song; some say it's a little perverted, it sounds possibly unfinished, but I've always liked it. Whether it should be released or not is another story. I like "Little Red Book" too, but have never seen it hyped, with exception to those who love the Wild Honey album and thought it was a Wild Honey (or Smile/Smiley) outtake. It's an outtake from the Friends album, I like it, and it'd make a nice little bonus track. "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" lived up to the hype from day one! I love it in all of it's splced together glory, and I'm very glad it's been released!

Just so long as those other plans don't constitute Brian re-recording it so we get his elderly barking instead of Dennis's in-his-prime croon!

Incidentally, why isn't 'the estate of Dennis Wilson' a voting member??

Oh, and where the hell can i hear Little Red Book??

Dennis' estate sold his vote back to BRI for a reduction in his debts.

I wouldn't mind hearing a remade version as long as they release the original version too - there would be room for both on the marketplace. Maybe it's just me, but knowing that something like "Pacific Coast Highway" can be made by The Beach Boys in 2012 gives me faith that they would do a good job with it.

(ps: I really like Lazy Lizzie)

Not on the board, but in the David Leaf book. Leaf basically shits himself talking about how much he liked it.

So, there are four votes for BRI. And, the voting has to be unanimous for something to get passed? One dissenting vote can shoot something down?

Not invariably. The so-called 'Love license' was passed on a 3-1 majority back in 1998. However, in the realm of archive musical releases, it seems anyone can exercise a veto (e.g. Carl & Brian on the 1993 box over "SOMS" & "LHRW" restectively. Alan also blocked the inclusion of "Loop").

So my question is this: I recall it being stated back in, oh I don't know, 2003, 2004, thereabouts, that "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" was cleared for release on the DVD-A version of the Surf's Up album that never came out. That to me would indicate that at least for that release, the track DID pass through the BRI gauntlet and got the thumbs-up. Correct?

Assuming yes, then I wonder what was different about the Warmth of the Sun compilation. If the track had already been OK'd once before, I doubt that it would be vetoed later on aesthetic grounds, or due to jealousy, pride, etc. My first guess would be royalties. Someone wanted more $ from royalties by including one of their songs, plain and simple. Keep in mind this is all wild, irresponsible speculation here. Please do NOT quote me. TBH, I wouldn't put it past any of those voting members to do something lame-brained.

The Beach Boys do something lame-brained?  Never!  ;)

Again, consider the difference between a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased song as a bonus track for the album it was recorded for and a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased track on a greatest hits collection aside the likes of "Surfin' USA" or "Kokomo."

Yeah, it obviously would have been a nice "bonus" track on the "Sunflower/Surf's Up" two-fer.

On a somewhat related note, and I think I may have asked this question before on one of the old boards, but I honestly can't remember the answer...

Do you know, Andrew, if the "Surf's Up" DVD-A ever made it to the actual test pressing stage (or even beyond)? I know that the official line at the time of its non-release was that the format had died, or was dying, and thus, it wasn't going to come out. I've just never heard for sure (or again, can't remember) if it ever made it anywhere past the master assembly stage?

The thought of a warehouse with a bunch of DVD-As in it (and everyone's favorite unreleased song) is pretty intoxicating to say the least.

That's interesting about the nuts and bolts of the voting.  I'd heard this and that, but never knew (and never cared to investigate) the actual details of it.

As for the difference between our "Live Again" and the original, I recall there being four:
1.  We excised an entire guitar solo, which consisted of three notes over and over again (it wasn't that interesting and otherwise the song would've been too long to include).
2.  The tag goes on a bit longer.  IIRC it had Brian, Carl, and Mike doing counterpoint vocals, and maybe one other person.  On the record it's very 1971, kind of a Latin feel, the synth solo that we do at the end is a flute on the record.  Really cool bit.
3.  There's a short counterpoint vocal that I do on one of the verses that isn't on the record.  Which is an eerie thing, we were at a show in Chicago and out of nowhere I suddenly felt compelled to do it, in Dennis' 1971 voice no less.  I'm not at all a new age airy-fairy guy, but it really felt like I was getting a psychic direction to put something on that was supposed to be there but never got added.  So I did.  Laugh if you will, but it was kind of an eerie feeling, and I remember when I did it, the whole band was kind of surprised, and then they all kind of nodded, because it felt very natural and right.
4.  It's in a different key.  I think it's a whole step down from where we did it, but I can't be sure, it's been so long since we did it.

I think the entire track is 4 minutes and change.

As I said earlier, I think it's one of the coolest Dennis songs we have yet to hear and that may, hopefully, be released.

Adam, just to clarify, are you saying that the finished, "releasable" Beach Boys master for the song is around 4 minutes and change? That is, I was basing  my "7+ minutes" comment on something Alan Boyd once stated regarding the original, unedited session tape.

Thanks for that. I figured the BB version must be in a different key (I think you did it in Eb, if I recall correctly) because I can't imagine Dennis being able to sing the melody in Eb (even at the height of his vocal abilities). I am curious to hear what key the original is in. Playing around with it, it seems G or Ab would have been a better key for him.

Can't wait to hear it.

*prays*

PS I really like the additional  vocals on the chorus. It really does feel right.

Maybe I'm wrong, it might have been 5 minutes.  Pretty sure it's not over 6, though.  Definitely not 7, though I generally defer to Boyd on this stuff.  And come to think of it, the one we worked off of was the mix they did for the DVD-A.  It's entirely possible that that itself was an edited version, and that there's a longer version in the vaults that I myself have not heard.

Did you say we did it in Eb?  Because I have a vague recollection the original was also in a flat key.  I want to say C#, which would make sense, since it's a whole step down.  I don't think it was in a natural key.  Playing back my memory of Dennis' vocal vs. Evie's, I am almost sure it's a whole step down from where we did it, no more.  His vocal goes pretty high on the "I" of "I know I can cry" part, it was very Carl.  Singing it back to myself, I think it's up around a Bb.

Thanks, Adam. FWIW, here's the original exchange with Alan and yourself (including the "7 minute" part by him), so your theory sounds correct.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=3562.15;wap2

That explains it then.  I had an edit, and the original session runs longer.  When all else fails, trust Boyd. 

The uncut mix is indeed quite long, with a lot of flute noodling.  It's about 7:30.  The WOTS release was going to be something like 4:40.

As for the key, it sort of depends on how you look at the song theoretically.  I would call it D-flat, but the first chord is the e-flat minor, which I would call the supertonic, or ii chord of the key.

In other words, Dennis's highest note is the high G-flat.

The guitar solo is indeed three notes over and over the whole sort of chorus progression.  The guitar is mixed quite low and in fact keeps playing during the following chorus, and it reflects a motive that pops up in the song intermittently.  One thing Adam's version doesn't reflect is all the little synth sounds and counter-melodies mixed in the track.  No criticism, Adam's version is great, but you can only have so many people up there playing little Moogy riffs.

Fascinating. Amazing info. Thank you!

It's in the key of Eb. The first chord is Fmi7.

Interesting. Since the song is in Db, I am very excited to hear Dennis sing it. He really must have worked hard to sing it in that key.

Yes, terrific stuff, gents. Very informative material, thanks for posting.

Kudos to Adam, Evie and the entire crew for their wonderful cover version; we can all be grateful for that great moment of transference that caused Adam to add his supporting "Who ever said" vocals to the track--very inspired, and very moving.

Some day, some way, we'll have the original version. Keep the faith!!

You are referring to Adam's version right? Because that most certainly is in Eb with the Fmi7 opening chord. aeijtzsche was saying that the original version is in Db with an Ebmi7 opening chord.

No. I'm referring to the 4:31 Beach Boys version. I haven't heard Adam's version.

If ours is in Eb, then no it ain't.  We definitely transposed it.  4:31 sounds about right though.

I just checked. Adam's version is definitely in Eb.

I'm not seeing $$$$$ as the total motivation for possibly voting against WIBNTLA. Call me naive, but if WIBNTLA would've appeared on the hits compilation, and another song was sacrificed, I don't think it (the compilation) would've sold one less unit because of the inclusion of WIBNTLA. On the other hand, if WIBNTLA would've made the cut, the compilation would've gotten a little more attention - a lot more among diehard fans - and the comp would've sold more units.

Again, what difference would've it made saleswise whether WIBNTLA was included or not. Consider, first, it was a hits comp, and second, there already was one obscure Dennis track on there. Maybe whoever just felt one non-hit track was enough for a comp that was to feature summer hits. We should be happy "Falling In Love" made it.

You're right. When I was figuring out the chords, I did it on a guitar; it wasn't tuned to A440.

I believe BRI assumed they had 100% of the song. When they found out they didn't, they may have been miffed or at least very surprised. My hunch has been that it had something to do with that.

I think there is confusion here regarding Warmth of The Sun and Summer Love Songs..."Fallin In Love" was included on the latter, WIBNTLA was proposed and rejected for the former.

If someone wanted another writing credit on WOTS ( I'm not saying that's the reason because I don't know but it's what a few have mentioned) why not just bump one of the covers then? Cal. Dreaming? Fools Fall In Love? ( which to me is the song that sticks out like a sore thumb on that album and on most setlists)

Really ? You looked at the TWOTS track listing recently ?

    "All Summer Long" (Brian Wilson, Mike Love [1964]) - 2:09
    "Catch a Wave" (B. Wilson, Love [1963]) - 2:08
    "Hawaii" (B. Wilson, Love [1963]) - 2:00
    "Little Honda" (B. Wilson, Love [1964]) - 1:52
    "409" (B. Wilson, Gary Usher, Love [1962]) - 2:00
    "It's OK" (B. Wilson, Love [1976]) - 2:12
    "You're So Good to Me" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:15
    "Then I Kissed Her" (Jeff Barry, Ellie Greenwich, Phil Spector [1965]) - 2:16
    "Kiss Me, Baby" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:43
    "Please Let Me Wonder" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:50
    "Let Him Run Wild" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:20
    "The Little Girl I Once Knew" (B. Wilson [1965]) - 2:34
    "Wendy" (B. Wilson, Love [1964]) - 2:20
    "Disney Girls (1957)" (Bruce Johnston [1971]) - 4:07
    "Forever" (Dennis Wilson, Gregg Jakobson [1970]) - 2:41
    "Friends" (B. Wilson, D. Wilson, Carl Wilson, Al Jardine [1968]) - 2:32
    "Break Away" (B. Wilson, Reggie Dunbar [1969]) - 3:05
    "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" (Morris Levy, Frankie Lymon [1964]) - 2:07
    "Surf's Up" (B. Wilson, Van Dyke Parks [1971]) - 4:12
    "Feel Flows" (C. Wilson, Jack Rieley [1971]) - 4:46
    "All This Is That" (C. Wilson, Love, Jardine [1972]) - 3:57
    "'Til I Die" (B. Wilson [1971]) - 2:40
    "Sail On, Sailor" (B. Wilson, Parks, Rieley, Ray Kennedy, Tandyn Almer [1973]) - 3:16
    "Cool, Cool Water" (B. Wilson, Love [1970]) - 3:24
    "Don't Go Near the Water" (Love, Jardine [1971]) - 2:39
    "California Saga (On My Way To Sunny Californ-i-a) (Jardine [1973]) - 3:22
    "California Dreamin''" (John Phillips, Michelle Phillips [1986]) - 3:24
    "The Warmth of the Sun" (B. Wilson, Love [1964]) - 2:50

28 tracks of which less than half were Top 100 hits.

Great quote:

"When all else fails, trust Boyd."
—Adam

So the chances of us hearing the full 7:30 version probably aren't that great :(

Srsly, if they're gonna release it after all this time and hype, they should do it right. Or, at the very least, give the amended, polished version on a compilation and save the 7:30 mix for a rarities box or whatever.

You wouldn't like the uncut version - too much faffing about to no discernable end: no focus. The 4.40 edit, OTOH, is majestic. Probably the single best still-unreleased tape in the vault.

I figured someone who's heard it would say something similar. I'm sure you have a very fair point, and I'm sure the 4:40 edit is a lot more focused and effective (and would probably be the version I'd end up going back to more often), but it's also probably easy to say that having heard both versions or having access to both (not attackin' you, just sayin'). It'd just be nice to have both in circulation sooner or later, I guess. We're Beach Boys fans - if we can take hours and hours of session tapes and multiple takes on the Pet Sounds and Smile boxes, we can take 8 minutes of a Dennis track that contains a but of aimless noodling (that was seemingly actually meant for the song, anyway?)

The last two minutes is literally an intermittent bass guitar, plus two Charles Lloyds noodling to no discernible chord progression, and Dennis saying he wants the flutes turned down and that he wants to hear the keyboards.  I have in my notes here that he keeps asking to hear the "808s, the 808s" and the engineer apparently doesn't know what those are.

I mean, it's fun to hear, but there's not really any "banter" as such and certainly nothing musically of interest.

Ah, I didn't know it was mostly studio banter. Makes sense - I'd obviously like to hear it all ala the Pet Sounds box etc. (and the "808" part sounds mildly amusing), but I'm not expecting it for obvious reasons.

808?! As this was a decade before the Roland TR-808 was released, I'm curious...

No offense taken, and absolutely right.  I'd forgotten about the extra keyboards, and there's some noodly Wurlitzer in there too.  We had to dumb it down a bit to play it live.