Al joining Mike and Bruce for Jones Beach show

[Mikie]

Stamos will probably be more prominently featured at Jones Beach than Al would have had he attended. For that matter, Stamos will probably be more prominent than Johnston or Marks as well.

Unfortunately true, Jude.

[HeyJude]

Stamos will probably be more prominently featured at Jones Beach than Al would have had he attended. For that matter, Stamos will probably be more prominent than Johnston or Marks as well.

Unfortunately true, Jude.

Maybe that was where negotiations between Al and Live Nation broke down, when he was told Stamos was going to be in attendance.  

And yes, I know Al is apparently buddies to some degree with him too. Playing bongos on Al's studio album is actually a fine role for Stamos I think.

I still enjoy this "Breaking News" pic that someone posted when the "BAD" tour was announced last year:

[Mikie]

Ray, two weeks ago I tried that Stella Artois you recommended and I'm not quite sure..........well, different tastes for different folks I guess. I mean, it was good, I drank the whole 6-pack of course, but........I think the IPA beers are my choice at this time.

Oh yeah, thanks for your input here. It helps a lot to quell the endless speculation and some of these threads go on forever with 10 different variables to each subject matter, so it's nice to see you come along with your common sense and factual information and put a lid on it.

[Catbirdman]

Thanks so much Ray Lawlor for your first-hand, honest accounts from the perspective of a friend and a fan. Your last post was one of the best things I've read on this forum and I hope you continue to contribute for a long time.

Thanks Sheriff for taking the time to share your POV with consideration and honesty.

[Mikie]

Stamos will probably be more prominently featured at Jones Beach than Al would have had he attended. For that matter, Stamos will probably be more prominent than Johnston or Marks as well.

Unfortunately true, Jude.

Maybe that was where negotiations between Al and Live Nation broke down, when he was told Stamos was going to be in attendance.  

And yes, I know Al is apparently buddies to some degree with him too. Playing bongos on Al's studio album is actually a fine role for Stamos I think.

I still enjoy this "Breaking News" pic that someone posted when the "BAD" tour was announced last year:

   That's funny!

[drbeachboy]

That a 72 year old man with well documented mental health issues needs a large support system to help keep his career moving should neither be a source of surprise nor a reason for defensiveness.

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

Yeah let's not let anybody who isn't an insider post on the board, won't that be fun.

Not sure that is what he meant. People throw there opinions out here whether educated or not. It is nice to hear from someone like Ray that actually knows and has seen what is actually going on inside Brian's sphere.

[Foster's Freeze]

I know John Stamos is a genuine fan of the band and I'll bet he really experiences some mixed emotions when he's performing with Mike.

He knows the history and has played with Al before - a thrill to be playing WITH your all time favorite band but yet he's stuck knee deep in the drama too.

The Beach Boys world = Bizarro World

[HeyJude]

I know John Stamos is a genuine fan of the band and I'll bet he really experiences some mixed emotions when he's performing with Mike.

He knows the history and has played with Al before - a thrill to be playing WITH your all time favorite band but yet he's stuck knee deep in the drama too.

The Beach Boys world = Bizarro World

There was an interview last year with Stamos in Guitar Aficionado magazine. A part of it is online, but the part where he talks about fans’ opinions of him is not in the excerpt.

Long story short, Stamos appears to be very aware of the fact that a segment of Beach Boys fans don’t like him. I think he referred to them as “hardcore Brian Wilson fans.” Stamos’ comments were simultaneously refreshing and perplexing. He admits some fans are annoyed by his presence with the band, then he admits that if he went to a Beach Boys show and saw Scott Baio on stage with them, he would be annoyed too. Yet, he then explains that essentially he plays with the Beach Boys because he’s a fan (does anybody doubt he’s a fan of Brian and the Beach Boys?), and pretty much boils it down to “who wouldn’t get on stage and play with them?” I remember reading that part and thinking there have to be some non-narcissistic fans out there who would rather watch the band play from the audience than continually jump on stage with them year after year, especially if they knew some fans are annoyed and they didn’t really add anything to the stage presentation.

Stamos also discussed his idea for a movie themed with Beach Boys music. Again, I don’t have the interview in front of me, but also seemed to be keenly aware that his 2000 TV movie did not go over well with some in the Beach Boys organization or their fans. I think his idea was to use BB music in a movie but keep their story or the members out of it.

So, Stamos is pretty aware of the mixed reception he gets from fans. It seems like he pretty much still appears with them because he can, and because it’s an easy excuse to f*** off and be a rock star when he’s not busy doing acting stuff.

Just reading the excerpt of the interview that is online, it sounds like Stamos would have a lot of interesting and fun BB-related stories (the online excerpt includes discussing rehearsing for the 1985 4th of July shows with Foskett and Jimmy Page), although we would be unlikely to get anything that reflects negatively on actual band members (if such stories are there to be told).

[Foster's Freeze]

I know John Stamos is a genuine fan of the band and I'll bet he really experiences some mixed emotions when he's performing with Mike.

He knows the history and has played with Al before - a thrill to be playing WITH your all time favorite band but yet he's stuck knee deep in the drama too.

The Beach Boys world = Bizarro World

There was an interview last year with Stamos in Guitar Aficionado magazine. A part of it is online, but the part where he talks about fans’ opinions of him is not in the excerpt.

Long story short, Stamos appears to be very aware of the fact that a segment of Beach Boys fans don’t like him. I think he referred to them as “hardcore Brian Wilson fans.” Stamos’ comments were simultaneously refreshing and perplexing. He admits some fans are annoyed by his presence with the band, then he admits that if he went to a Beach Boys show and saw Scott Baio on stage with them, he would be annoyed too. Yet, he then explains that essentially he plays with the Beach Boys because he’s a fan (does anybody doubt he’s a fan of Brian and the Beach Boys?), and pretty much boils it down to “who wouldn’t get on stage and play with them?” I remember reading that part and thinking there have to be some non-narcissistic fans out there who would rather watch the band play from the audience than continually jump on stage with them year after year, especially if they knew some fans are annoyed and they didn’t really add anything to the stage presentation.

Stamos also discussed his idea for a movie themed with Beach Boys music. Again, I don’t have the interview in front of me, but also seemed to be keenly aware that his 2000 TV movie did not go over well with some in the Beach Boys organization or their fans. I think his idea was to use BB music in a movie but keep their story or the members out of it.

So, Stamos is pretty aware of the mixed reception he gets from fans. It seems like he pretty much still appears with them because he can, and because it’s an easy excuse to f*** off and be a rock star when he’s not busy doing acting stuff.

Just reading the excerpt of the interview that is online, it sounds like Stamos would have a lot of interesting and fun BB-related stories (the online excerpt includes discussing rehearsing for the 1985 4th of July shows with Foskett and Jimmy Page), although we would be unlikely to get anything that reflects negatively on actual band members (if such stories are there to be told).

I have that issue, I'll have to get it scanned and added to the media section.  The whole article was pretty interesting and most of it about his involvement with the band.

[Dancing Bear]

I know John Stamos is a genuine fan of the band and I'll bet he really experiences some mixed emotions when he's performing with Mike.

He knows the history and has played with Al before - a thrill to be playing WITH your all time favorite band but yet he's stuck knee deep in the drama too.

The Beach Boys world = Bizarro World

There was an interview last year with Stamos in Guitar Aficionado magazine. A part of it is online, but the part where he talks about fans’ opinions of him is not in the excerpt.

Long story short, Stamos appears to be very aware of the fact that a segment of Beach Boys fans don’t like him. I think he referred to them as “hardcore Brian Wilson fans.” Stamos’ comments were simultaneously refreshing and perplexing. He admits some fans are annoyed by his presence with the band, then he admits that if he went to a Beach Boys show and saw Scott Baio on stage with them, he would be annoyed too. Yet, he then explains that essentially he plays with the Beach Boys because he’s a fan (does anybody doubt he’s a fan of Brian and the Beach Boys?), and pretty much boils it down to “who wouldn’t get on stage and play with them?” I remember reading that part and thinking there have to be some non-narcissistic fans out there who would rather watch the band play from the audience than continually jump on stage with them year after year, especially if they knew some fans are annoyed and they didn’t really add anything to the stage presentation.

Stamos also discussed his idea for a movie themed with Beach Boys music. Again, I don’t have the interview in front of me, but also seemed to be keenly aware that his 2000 TV movie did not go over well with some in the Beach Boys organization or their fans. I think his idea was to use BB music in a movie but keep their story or the members out of it.

So, Stamos is pretty aware of the mixed reception he gets from fans. It seems like he pretty much still appears with them because he can, and because it’s an easy excuse to f*** off and be a rock star when he’s not busy doing acting stuff.

Just reading the excerpt of the interview that is online, it sounds like Stamos would have a lot of interesting and fun BB-related stories (the online excerpt includes discussing rehearsing for the 1985 4th of July shows with Foskett and Jimmy Page), although we would be unlikely to get anything that reflects negatively on actual band members (if such stories are there to be told).

Interesting. I think what he has in mind is some kind of "Mama Mia' / 'Across the Universe' movie.

[Foster's Freeze]

Interesting. I think what he has in mind is some kind of "Mama Mia' / 'Across the Universe' movie.

Yes.

Mama Mia style - not about the Beach Boys but their music woven into the story.

[JohnMill]

That a 72 year old man with well documented mental health issues needs a large support system to help keep his career moving should neither be a source of surprise nor a reason for defensiveness.

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

Yeah let's not let anybody who isn't an insider post on the board, won't that be fun.

Not sure that is what he meant. People throw there opinions out here whether educated or not. It is nice to hear from someone like Ray that actually knows and has seen what is actually going on inside Brian's sphere.

I want to put this the right way because I think this is an issue that keeps coming up on this forum repeatedly to the point of the matter becoming cyclical in nature:  A discussion begins usually having something to do with the interpersonal relationships regarding the individual members of the band.  There is obviously a contingent on these forums that is pro-Wilson and a contingent on this forum that is pro-Love.  Granted other people play the middle ground but to deny that there are posters that repeatedly stick up for one of the parties would be in a word: ridiculous.

These parties debate the given issue at hand giving the benefit of the doubt to whomever party they happen to be aligned with.  Then about ten-twelve pages into the discussion, another party joins the forum who actually has access to either Camp Wilson or Camp Love and gives us their take on what is going on in said Camp.  Then a bunch of other posters begin to "kiss rings" and marginalize the opinions of anyone else who does not have direct access to either camp.  Browse the forum's archives if you don't believe me.  

The bottom line: It's a discussion board and one that actually manages to moderate itself quite nicely.  People discuss, share opinions and viewpoints.  That is really all we can do because in reality what we are discussing is probably something that is inherently none of our business anyway.  Personally I'm at the stage where I'm willing to let the generals fight it out so to speak.  

[guitarfool2002]

Stamos also discussed his idea for a movie themed with Beach Boys music. Again, I don’t have the interview in front of me, but also seemed to be keenly aware that his 2000 TV movie did not go over well with some in the Beach Boys organization or their fans. I think his idea was to use BB music in a movie but keep their story or the members out of it.

The 2000 TV movie was a travesty, to the point where names had to be changed to avoid various legal actions around damaging portrayals of specific individuals because it was so cartoonish and far from accurate. So it's a good thing there is at least a realization that it "did not go over well", but at the same time when you present something suggesting it's in any way historically accurate, and certain elements are so far from accurate as to be laughable to the point of near-slander, how could you not be keenly aware there would be a negative reaction even at the point where the script was being reviewed?

That film was total nonsense and it's a shame it even got broadcast to millions of viewers who got that kind of impression of the band's history. But that's the BB's universe for 'ya.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Let's also keep in mind that not every "insider" goes around announcing themselves either.

[SMiLE Brian]

VH1 still shows that movie all the time.

[guitarfool2002]

That a 72 year old man with well documented mental health issues needs a large support system to help keep his career moving should neither be a source of surprise nor a reason for defensiveness.

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

Yeah let's not let anybody who isn't an insider post on the board, won't that be fun.

Not sure that is what he meant. People throw there opinions out here whether educated or not. It is nice to hear from someone like Ray that actually knows and has seen what is actually going on inside Brian's sphere.

I want to put this the right way because I think this is an issue that keeps coming up on this forum repeatedly to the point of the matter becoming cyclical in nature:  A discussion begins usually having something to do with the interpersonal relationships regarding the individual members of the band.  There is obviously a contingent on these forums that is pro-Wilson and a contingent on this forum that is pro-Love.  Granted other people play the middle ground but to deny that there are posters that repeatedly stick up for one of the parties would be in a word: ridiculous.

These parties debate the given issue at hand giving the benefit of the doubt to whomever party they happen to be aligned with.  Then about ten-twelve pages into the discussion, another party joins the forum who actually has access to either Camp Wilson or Camp Love and gives us their take on what is going on in said Camp.  Then a bunch of other posters begin to "kiss rings" and marginalize the opinions of anyone else who does not have direct access to either camp.  Browse the forum's archives if you don't believe me.  

The bottom line: It's a discussion board and one that actually manages to moderate itself quite nicely.  People discuss, share opinions and viewpoints.  That is really all we can do because in reality what we are discussing is probably something that is inherently none of our business anyway.  Personally I'm at the stage where I'm willing to let the generals fight it out so to speak.  

At the same time some opinions are offered so definitively that the opinion starts to spread more widely than what may actually be the fact - and that may be the kind of thing that someone who knows more about the issue as either a first-person witness, participant, or anything of the sort can clear up immediately by simply posting the facts.

Let's take one hypothetical, what if someone who saw a Beach Boys show gets on this board and starts posting how the band was being Autotuned, or was playing to pre-recorded backing tracks, or anything that the poster may be trying to use to diminish the concert or even the band in general. One of the band members happens to be an honored guest poster on this board, so he may come on and say "This is absolutely NOT the case."

End of story, right? But as often happens, whatever opinion that fan decides to post here turns into a pissing match where it's "Well, I know what I heard at the show..." or "My ears tell me they were doing so-and-so..."

At that point, when an actual musician participant in the show itself tells the truth of the matter, then that fan's opinion should most certainly be marginalized because it's ignoring reality to defend a perception or even an *agenda* to marginalize someone or something...and at that point too, it's delusional to a degree.

Just as there are various theories and opinions about how much Autotune is used or was used on some Brian Wilson albums, if people who were actually there say "there was no Autotune used" and someone still insists that there was because their ears can spot it, I'll personally call that out as a fan.

And some fans just like to post to stir the sh*t and get people arguing, that's a fact of life on all fan communities and the internet in general.

And it is good to have actual participants in these various things who visit this forum because it does maintain an even keel so the spin doesn't spin too far out from reality. I'm all for that.  

[guitarfool2002]

VH1 still shows that movie all the time.

That's a shame, isn't it? They should show it in the 3AM-6AM graveyard time slot, alongside the worst episodes of "Pop Up Video" where they revealed things like what brand of shoes Milli Vanilli is wearing in their "Girl You Know It's True" video. 

[Mikie]

I know John Stamos is a genuine fan of the band and I'll bet he really experiences some mixed emotions when he's performing with Mike.

He knows the history and has played with Al before - a thrill to be playing WITH your all time favorite band but yet he's stuck knee deep in the drama too.

The Beach Boys world = Bizarro World

There was an interview last year with Stamos in Guitar Aficionado magazine. A part of it is online, but the part where he talks about fans’ opinions of him is not in the excerpt.

Long story short, Stamos appears to be very aware of the fact that a segment of Beach Boys fans don’t like him. I think he referred to them as “hardcore Brian Wilson fans.” Stamos’ comments were simultaneously refreshing and perplexing. He admits some fans are annoyed by his presence with the band, then he admits that if he went to a Beach Boys show and saw Scott Baio on stage with them, he would be annoyed too. Yet, he then explains that essentially he plays with the Beach Boys because he’s a fan (does anybody doubt he’s a fan of Brian and the Beach Boys?), and pretty much boils it down to “who wouldn’t get on stage and play with them?” I remember reading that part and thinking there have to be some non-narcissistic fans out there who would rather watch the band play from the audience than continually jump on stage with them year after year, especially if they knew some fans are annoyed and they didn’t really add anything to the stage presentation.

Stamos also discussed his idea for a movie themed with Beach Boys music. Again, I don’t have the interview in front of me, but also seemed to be keenly aware that his 2000 TV movie did not go over well with some in the Beach Boys organization or their fans. I think his idea was to use BB music in a movie but keep their story or the members out of it.

So, Stamos is pretty aware of the mixed reception he gets from fans. It seems like he pretty much still appears with them because he can, and because it’s an easy excuse to f*** off and be a rock star when he’s not busy doing acting stuff.

Just reading the excerpt of the interview that is online, it sounds like Stamos would have a lot of interesting and fun BB-related stories (the online excerpt includes discussing rehearsing for the 1985 4th of July shows with Foskett and Jimmy Page), although we would be unlikely to get anything that reflects negatively on actual band members (if such stories are there to be told).

I wouldn't mind Stamos so much if he wasn't such a hamburger on stage. I guess he plays it to the hilt for the women that scream for him. I think more guys than girls are annoyed....

[JohnMill]

That a 72 year old man with well documented mental health issues needs a large support system to help keep his career moving should neither be a source of surprise nor a reason for defensiveness.

Thanks Ray for a touch of sanity. I hope people read it and realize it is not just another opinion to be weighted equally with the ramblings of people who have NO idea.

Yeah let's not let anybody who isn't an insider post on the board, won't that be fun.

Not sure that is what he meant. People throw there opinions out here whether educated or not. It is nice to hear from someone like Ray that actually knows and has seen what is actually going on inside Brian's sphere.

I want to put this the right way because I think this is an issue that keeps coming up on this forum repeatedly to the point of the matter becoming cyclical in nature:  A discussion begins usually having something to do with the interpersonal relationships regarding the individual members of the band.  There is obviously a contingent on these forums that is pro-Wilson and a contingent on this forum that is pro-Love.  Granted other people play the middle ground but to deny that there are posters that repeatedly stick up for one of the parties would be in a word: ridiculous.

These parties debate the given issue at hand giving the benefit of the doubt to whomever party they happen to be aligned with.  Then about ten-twelve pages into the discussion, another party joins the forum who actually has access to either Camp Wilson or Camp Love and gives us their take on what is going on in said Camp.  Then a bunch of other posters begin to "kiss rings" and marginalize the opinions of anyone else who does not have direct access to either camp.  Browse the forum's archives if you don't believe me.  

The bottom line: It's a discussion board and one that actually manages to moderate itself quite nicely.  People discuss, share opinions and viewpoints.  That is really all we can do because in reality what we are discussing is probably something that is inherently none of our business anyway.  Personally I'm at the stage where I'm willing to let the generals fight it out so to speak.  

At the same time some opinions are offered so definitively that the opinion starts to spread more widely than what may actually be the fact - and that may be the kind of thing that someone who knows more about the issue as either a first-person witness, participant, or anything of the sort can clear up immediately by simply posting the facts.

Let's take one hypothetical, what if someone who saw a Beach Boys show gets on this board and starts posting how the band was being Autotuned, or was playing to pre-recorded backing tracks, or anything that the poster may be trying to use to diminish the concert or even the band in general. One of the band members happens to be an honored guest poster on this board, so he may come on and say "This is absolutely NOT the case."

End of story, right? But as often happens, whatever opinion that fan decides to post here turns into a pissing match where it's "Well, I know what I heard at the show..." or "My ears tell me they were doing so-and-so..."

At that point, when an actual musician participant in the show itself tells the truth of the matter, then that fan's opinion should most certainly be marginalized because it's ignoring reality to defend a perception or even an *agenda* to marginalize someone or something...and at that point too, it's delusional to a degree.

Just as there are various theories and opinions about how much Autotune is used or was used on some Brian Wilson albums, if people who were actually there say "there was no Autotune used" and someone still insists that there was because their ears can spot it, I'll personally call that out as a fan.

And some fans just like to post to stir the sh*t and get people arguing, that's a fact of life on all fan communities and the internet in general.

And it is good to have actual participants in these various things who visit this forum because it does maintain an even keel so the spin doesn't spin too far out from reality. I'm all for that.  

Well my problem isn't at all with people who have candid factual knowledge but more in the needless marginalization of forum members who are being put down for discussing something that they are genuinely enthusiastic about.  As I mentioned around a week ago in case you missed it: Trolls or agitators are just that and are best dealt with by the moderation staff before they disrupt the forum.   By their very nature I tend to disqualify them from the discussion we are having and fortunately (to my eyes anyhow) it seems that the troll quotient on this particular forum is virtually non-existent.  

Anyhow I have no further interest in getting into a debate about forum etiquette or tact so I'll let my side of the argument rest here.  I guess all I'm saying is it would be of a somewhat more evolutionary nature if we didn't repeat the same cyclical pattern of behavior every time when it comes to having a debate.  Then again to be fair the fact that I'm pointing out the cyclical nature of the discussion is becoming rote in enough of itself...keeping an eye on the world going by my window.  

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I met Stamos a million years ago at a work party. Just for a second as he was getting led off someplace, and I mentioned The Beach Boys, and he gave me his card and said "let's be Beach Boys friends"

[SMiLE Brian]

Can you give him OSD's number?

[guitarfool2002]

Well my problem isn't at all with people who have candid factual knowledge but more in the needless marginalization of forum members who are being put down for discussing something that they are genuinely enthusiastic about.  As I mentioned around a week ago in case you missed it: Trolls or agitators are just that and are best dealt with by the moderation staff before they disrupt the forum.   By their very nature I tend to disqualify them from the discussion we are having and fortunately (to my eyes anyhow) it seems that the troll quotient on this particular forum is virtually non-existent.  

Anyhow I have no further interest in getting into a debate about forum etiquette or tact so I'll let my side of the argument rest here.  I guess all I'm saying is it would be of a somewhat more evolutionary nature if we didn't repeat the same cyclical pattern of behavior every time when it comes to having a debate.  Then again to be fair the fact that I'm pointing out the cyclical nature of the discussion is becoming rote in enough of itself...keeping an eye on the world going by my window.  

JohnMill: Specifically the line that's in bold, I agree 110%.    I also think when enthusiasm and strong opinion is based on things that aren't true and can be proven so, it's more than fair game to challenge it.

[drbeachboy]

@JohnMill

Yes, this is a discussion board, but that discussion can be about the facts and not just opinions and conjecture, especially on this subject. And while opinions can be fun and interesting, this subject begs for facts. So, having Ray here really helps set the record straight. Just wish we had someone who knew more about why Al bailed on the Jones Beach gig.

[guitarfool2002]

Just a quick anecdote from a major band outside the Beach Boys' fan realm. This came from an engineer who had mixed a certain concert from that band which was going to be released. Somehow there was a leak of the mix, and also another different mix of the show that had come out in another format...or something.

So on that band's fan forum(s), there were fans who heard the different mixes and were saying how much better they liked Engineer #1's mix, and how they wished that mix would have been used.

Long story short, some kind of DVD or video release eventually came out using Engineer #1's mix of the concert that fans who heard it preferred to whatever else had been released officially.

Engineer #1 also read the message boards. And as he told it, there was a fan who took to the boards criticizing the mix because it wasn't the best one from Engineer #1...he could tell, he could hear it, it wasn't as good, all the usual stuff.

And even when Engineer #1 posted under a screen name that it was definitely the mix everyone was begging for, there were fans who insisted it was not, and they knew what they were hearing, and therefore could criticize it because it wasn't the right mix.

And if I remember Engineer #1 chalked it up to the ways internet communities can work at their most ridiculous. He did the mix, he knew it was his mix on the newly released concert, but he would have had to argue that point with fans who insisted it wasn't his mix.

Now that is funny, isn't it? And it goes beyond the Beach Boys discussions we have here.  

[Mikie]

I met Stamos a million years ago at a work party. Just for a second as he was getting led off someplace, and I mentioned The Beach Boys, and he gave me his card and said "let's be Beach Boys friends"

Well, that's really nice of him. Seems like a genuine, humble guy. But I can see why people get annoyed with him. The drum solo after "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen" on Be True To Your School and flipping and throwing the sticks up in the air isn't that bad and jumping out to the front of the stage for a quick guitar solo...... I guess he's allowed to be like his idol Dennis sometimes, but what a ham. Maybe I'm just jealous 'cause he can make the ladies moist without even doing anything....