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https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-10-18/trump-fundraiser-california?fbclid=IwAR1EjEbVZYlnT3C10ZLUYk8ZjOabDlq1GiR10C5SG9p7Vp_KzPzdN-Rc8Hg

Screw Mike for dragging down the brand name once again.

There's no way that all the members of the band are in support of this. Mike just does this because he can, once again.

Huge, huge shocker with a massive narcissist loving another massive narcissist. What a surprise. Like flies on sh*t.

As a fan, this is really unacceptable to me. We know that Mike is a Trump fan, that's his right. But he shouldn't take the Beach Boys' name to this. Especially since I'm pretty sure a couple of the other Beach Boys is not ok with Trump. Usually I'd guess that the Beach Boys' name will take a dump in the public's view after this. But I don't think anyone cares enough about the Beach Boys. It's not like it would be the Stones.

Wasn't there even something like Trump jr. talking badly about Brian? I didn't follow that, so I may be wrong on this.

The president's dipshit narcissist son talking sh*t about Brian, yes it happened.

I'm sure Mike was glad to see Brian knocked down a few pegs, as Mike's silence in response to Don Jr spoke volumes, because Mike for a few days could avoid saying WILSONS DID DRUGS for once and save his breath, and just let somebody else with a huge platform help out in knocking Brian.

Not again Mike, you endorse the family who went after BW....

what an asshole.  those two really deserve each other

Mike should lose the license over shlt like this

Yikes -- all politics aside, two near-octogenarians playing a show at a highly likely superspreader event is scary stuff.

Mike Love can f*** off into the sun at this point. This is inexcusable.

Very hard to defend these actions from Mike in 2020. It reminds me of George Harrison's quote about how Mike never really listened to what the Maharishi was teaching. Mike could have easily gone into the sunset and enjoy life, but here we are...

I am not a Trump supporter,  but what I do support is freedom of Speech. Celebrities use their platform all the time to make political statements. It is their right. Personally, if I love the art they produce, I could care less what politics or religion (TM) they push. Unless it's that Satanic death metal stuff. Too far for me. Lol!

Variety juat posted an article quoting Brian and Al. I cant post it because im on my phone.

They knew nothing about it

The worse part is there is a health crisis on. And yet Mike does this knowing it will cause at least 3 stress or anger based heart attacks amongst forum users, 12 severe episodes dehydration amongst people who try and catch up with this thread when it gets to 45 pages by tomorrow morning, and no doubt kill the poor hamster who runs around in a wheel to keep the server running.

Variety article https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2020/music/news/brian-wilson-al-jardine-trump-benefit-beach-boys-disavow-california-mike-love-1234808907/amp/

Typical Mike as quoted in the article:

"But Donald Trump has never been anything but kind to us"

because of course that's textbook behavior from somebody who can only view the world through the lens of how things affect them personally.

Disgusting. Add the Beach Boys to the list of politicized "stuff." Firmly siding with Brian and Al on this one. The trophy hunting show was bad, this is even worse. Hey, maybe Mike can team up with Kid Rock for his next cover of "Do It Again"!

Yes, the tweet was something to the effect of calling Brian another crying liberal. Don Jr. was very rude/dismissive of Brian. I didn't like Don Jr. to begin with, but.... don't talk sh*t about Brian.

 :angry

Dipshit Don Jr. specifically made fun of Brian to say that he had successfully "triggered" him. Because, you know, "triggering" 78-year-old musicians who have worked immeasurably hard to bravely overcome mental illness, and who continue to suffer auditory hallucinations for 50 years, is akin to sport for him.

Mike, the cowardly ass-kisser/Trump fellater that he is, said nothing in response.

Is there any realistic scenario in which Mike’s license to use the Beach Boys name can be rescinded? What would that look like? Is it feasible?

This is more than politics. This also has to do with the fact that musicians shouldn’t be playing large events in front of audiences right now. And that Trump has continued to ignore health experts, that just a couple of weeks ago a bunch of his peers and staffers became seriously ill and he still thinks he should be able to hold rallies and let his fans take the risk and apparently Mike feels similarly. That’s just really irresponsible.

^ This is exactly what I meant earlier. Mike is running a terrible health risk playing this gig.

Mike should do what he wants under his own personal name, not under the brand name. Again, the circumstances just happened to fall into a situation where Mike can do that, and there doesn't appear to be anything that Brian or Al can do to stop Mike (per their own words about Mike's last garbage show).

But it doesn't mean Mike should use the brand name on a massively public scale like that, even if Mike has a hard on for the man he's probably angling to get some presidential award or some ego-stroking pat on the head from. But Mike does every single thing he can get away with. He has no scruples whatsoever.

Obviously, the fact that this was announced just a short time before the show would be something that would help Mike simply slip in and do what he wants while minimizing anyone's efforts to stop him. The fact that he wouldn't consult the other members of BRI about playing such a high profile and polarizing show, and that Brian and Al would find out from Variety magazine, is indicative of his giant ego and reckless disregard for the other members' thoughts and feelings, which we all know is an unsurprising general thing for Mike anyway.

How Mike justifies playing an event and using the songs that Brian wrote, some of which Mike cowrote, when Brian is in opposition to the show taking place, I'll never understand. That in and of itself is unethical. Forget the fact that I personally abhor Trump; the fact that Mike's cousin (who wrote those songs) and does not want his songs to be used for that, but perhaps doesn't have it in him to get into a massive legal headache at almost 80 years old, and Mike takes advantage of that situation, is gross behavior, but perfectly par for the course for this guy.

Hopefully "soon-ish" is an answer to the question of how much longer it'll be before Mike will no longer be abusing and prostituting the brand name like this.  

If Brian only knew the levels to which Mike would eventually stoop to when Mike was granted the license to the name... this would never happen if Carl were alive. This is not like playing a Reagan event. This is apples and oranges for anyone who wants to make that ridiculous comparison.

Maybe we can get trump to ask Mike to release the Feel Flows box set.

Mike love is trending on twitter

The hate is extrmene

So...he promotes the Concert In Cars series as being safe and with appropriate precautions being taken, then does a gathering like this, presumably without those precautions? Did the events in the Rose Garden a few weeks back not register?

Well said, right on.  The selective outrage over this is utterly ridiculous. 

This whole crap event is being put on by noted racist/white supremacist associate/hand gesture maker Palmer Luckey.

www.vrandfun.com/oculus-founder-palmer-luckey-seen-together-steve-bannon-white-supremacist-chuck-c-johnson/amp/


https://news.yahoo.com/trump-arrives-ca-beach-boys-191735399.html

Not under the brand name, when other members don't want that.
Don't use the name of the band for such a polarizing thing.

Just because he can, it doesn't make it right.

He could have the guts to go up there as simply Mike Love without using the brand name against the wishes of multiple other members, and he can also give the president a hand job under the podium while he's at it.

Although I see your point on some level and normally would even agree somewhat with this, as a conservative myself who has had for years to put up with all the artists I listen to constantly virtue signaling and supporting politicians and causes I can only roll my eyes at, I simply could not care less that Love is doing a concert for Trump under the Beach Boys' name.  And I don't even like Trump all that much myself.  If I have to power through listening to my musical heroes praising idiotic politicians and causes, then you can put up with Mike Love performing some sh___y concert (with or without using the band's name) for a guy who probably won't see a second term at this point. 

We are in a pandemic. Any musician, liberal or conservative, who is a part of an event like this deserves to be called out on it. And having seen photos of recent Trump events, I highly doubt the audience will be socially distant from each other.

The bottom line is: I'm sure all the members of BRI didn't envision something like this would happen when they let Mike use the brand name. Not to mention even if they could've foreseen something like this back then, to have tried to stop him from using the brand name starting in 1998 would have been a massive legal headache, financial drain, not to mention a massive emotional headache that would've dragged on for years. So I can't put this on them.

Mike is a bully who has gotten what he wanted. Full control over doing what he wants as The Beach Boys, without ever having to ask anyone else in the band what they think. And in fact I have zero doubt that Mike is HAPPY to be pissing off Melinda and others who he probably wishes ill upon. In no way, shape, or form does using the band name somehow become an ethically acceptable situation when it's against the wishes of multiple other members, and when it's enough of a big deal to those other members that they've publicly spoken out against Mike to major news sources regarding their opposition, now for the SECOND time in a year that has had the fewest live BBs shows of any year since the band's inception.

Just a small handful of shows that the "BBs" have played in 2020, yet two (so far) are so abhorrent to Brian and Al (not to mention a huge amount of fans across the isle and across the 2 message boards) that they'd attempt to stop Mike, and he gives zero fucks. What a big, strong, unwavering man he is.  ::)
 
I'm sure Mike is gleefully awaiting some sort of reward from Trump in whatever way that manifests.

And this doesn't even begin to address the safety implications of the show. If Mike were to get COVID-19 from this show, I imagine there would not be much sympathy for him from many places.

was Stamos there-- i was just surprised to hear hes doing the drive in shows--- hes been really loyal to mike hasnt he

The show hasn't happened yet. I'm sure Stamos won't be there, because he probably doesn't want the heat from playing such a show.

Yet truly, Stamos should get some heat for continuing to associate with this assclown. It's getting to the point with Mike playing abhorrent show after abhorrent show that Stamos is going to get asked by some interviewer about his association with such a moron, yet if he continues to brownnose Mike, he'll probably just deflect and give a non-answer like "well, I don't have anything to do with that" or some other BS.

Mike has politicized "The Beach Boys" in a way that never needed to happen.

Just think about this: in 2020, Mike has expounded effort into killing Dennis material from Feel Flows, expounded effort to make a public statements defending his playing a show about killing animals...yet has the chutzpah to pen a (horrendous) "Viral Super Bowl" song, despite playing a show that itself could best be described as a "Viral Super Bowl" in front of a bunch of spreading unmasked idiots, at the home of no good punk Palmer Luckey, a white supremacist sympathizer who poses for photos while making white power hand gestures.

What a guy that Mike Love is. What a guy. A guy who WONDERS why people don't like him.

And if heaven forbid Trump is reelected, Mike will have been part of the reason why that happened.

Interesting comment by StageWrangler:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/MikeLove?src=hashtag_click

Birds of a feather.... ;)

An executive order would be nice.

More great press for Mike:

https://twitter.com/mcthatgirl/status/1317962192935964676?s=21

As if 2020 couldn't get any worse ...

No Feel Flows box set, AND Mike playing a fundraiser for Trump.

Yikes.

I think this is going to drag the band down and alienate young listeners moving forward. This leaves me absolutely livid, as I love this group with all my heart, but my brain is shattered. C'mon. This is horrible optics, and is just going to completely kill this band's legacy. This is not a drill.

it's a Love thing

Look, I don't want to be too much in poor taste, but there'd be a certain poetic irony in Mike going ahead with this and contracting COVID from the recently-infected President.

Mike can do whatever he wants under his own name.  What he should in no circumstances do, however, is play a fundraiser two weeks ahead of the most politically charged election ever, and do it under the name of the Beach Boys, a name that is indelibly linked with other people that may not share the same views.  

Is he actually trying to go down as the most hated man in the history of rock and roll?  I'm being serious.  Do you think it's some kind of pathological need to keep the attention on himself?  To be the best at something, anything, even if it's being the best at being the worst?  

I felt like this after the trophy hunting show..I just absolutely DESPISE him for continually embarrassing his former bandmates and for letting his fans down over and over and over.  I live in a city that votes 85% Democrat.  In all seriousness, I wouldn't feel comfortable going out in a BB tshirt right now.  I can separate the band from that idiot, but most people can't.  

I don't know much about the licensing agreement, but knowing what he's like, I don't know why Brian and Al ever agreed to the arrangement that allowed him to have the name.  I'm not saying that they should have been able to look into the future and anticipate that Mike would use the name to try to re-elect a misogynist, morally bankrupt president, but they should have known that no good would come of letting him be "the Beach Boys".  They must really be questioning the decision now.  

Hadn't heard that George quote before, very apt indeed. How embarrassing that Mike still talks about how chummy he was with the Beatles in Rishikesh, when both George and John are on record calling him an asshole.

I'm not that acquainted with the full scope of Maharishi's teachings, but it seems like Mike cherry picked the parts that made him feel nice & peaceful within himself, while completely failing to cultivate peace and goodness in his interpersonal relationships. This is an 'enlightened' and supposedly peace-loving man who willingly let his daughter die rather than pay for her medical costs. 'Cool head, warm heart' indeed.

Wheras I certainly don't agree with this gig (mainly because of Trump) - It appears that most people have certainly forgot that the BB's (yes as some would say the REAL BBs) have played MANY such fund raisers over the years including Inaugurations (1977 etc), but as its Mike involved such memories seem to have been swept under the carpet - Just saying  ::)

Apples and oranges. None of those events were remotely as polarizing for the entire country as this one.

America is literally on the brink of Civil War. Teetering right on the edge. This is not just some innocuous inauguration that some people merely "don't like". Even for somebody who's a fan of Trump, they must realize just how much of a massive political statement it is to associate the band/brand with this particular man.

On top of that, none of those past concerts were played simultaneously with multiple members of the band publicly denouncing the gig and signing petitions begging for the person in charge of the band to not play the gigs. (I realize that petition is in regards to the *other* horrible show they played earlier this year, but it's all part of the same Trump family association garbage)

Not a comparison that makes any sense whatsoever to past BBs shows for politicians. Nope.

Once again, wise words from David Crosby re: Mike Love:

https://twitter.com/thedavidcrosby/status/1318221408871145483

Not a fan of politicization. I don't mind art that speaks in a political manner, but when groups simply play their unrelated tracks at an event like this it just seems like a lazy play for support.
It's a far cry from something like "What's Going On", or stuff like that. Spreading a message and talking about the world. I don't like when artists do events like this for anyone. (Remember the cringe-fest for Clinton in 2016...all those artists who have probably never even voted... yikes)

It's his right, it's legal and he has the right to use the name. I wouldn't even call it entirely morally wrong. But it is absolutely a half-assed and entirely non-artistic show of support. The bad kind of politicization for sure.

Gosh, I hope Mike doesn't get the covid, because I'd really feel sorry for the covid

I think it's totally fine for artists to be involved in politics. They're citizens too. However, in no way to do I think Trump is a typical politician. And if Mike wants to do this super-spreader event, so be it, but not using the Beach Boys name. He should use his own name. Attach his own name to the Trump train, not the band's name and its legacy. There should be some kind of exception to the license agreement where political events require all board members to sign off.

Agreed. He's only getting these shows cos no one else will do them.

So basically what I'm reading is that the problem isn't that you don't agree with what Mike is doing... but you just don't agree with his politics.

Okie dokie, join the club. 99% of the artists I listen to would probably call me horrible things because I happen to disagree with them.

As a huge Beach Boys fan and a strong conservative centered around the importance of values, morals and ethics, I'm proud that Mike is playing the Trump sponsored concert.   For all my other musical 'heroes' that have supported the politics of hatred, divide, racism and suppression of freedoms (liberals), I'm glad that the Beach Boys band name is being represented on the right side of history.    Congrats to Mike.   Remember, the thoughts shared on these boards are not as widespread as you'd like to believe.   Americans in the vast majority of states, cities and counties elected Trump as our President because he stood for the political decisions/directions we so desired after being on the brink of a civil war with President Obama.   The seething anger of racism generated by that man's words and actions were unlike anything this country had saw, but the media and these boards rarely bothered to notice or report.  

For fucks sake, you’re completely missing the point that they’re playing a concert for a crowd during a pandemic. I don’t give a sh*t about Mike’s politics or your politics, it doesn’t change that it’s stupid and dangerous and against CDC guidelines.

Plenty of hatred, division and racism to be found on both sides of this crippling culture war. I don't doubt that you have a point but I think people need to call out both sides otherwise division will continue to reign supreme at everyone's collective expense.

Obama cannot be beyond criticism, but if the US was on the brink of civil war after the Obama years, goodness knows where it is at now.

EXACTLY, and as someone who DID have Covid and have had complications since, I have a major issue

Let's say the situation were reversed. Let's say Brian had the BBs name license and decided to do a Biden event. (I'm not saying Brian is a Biden supporter. This is totally hypothetical.) Knowing Mike is NOT a Biden supporter, would I think it was ok for Brian to have the "Beach Boys" to do a Biden event? Mmmm...no. Honestly, I would say Brian should do it under his own name. Wouldn't you? (And while I put Trump in a totally different stratosphere than Reagan, Bush, and W, I also think Mike-as-the-BBs doing any events for them without the go-ahead from the others would be wrong. But I think the Reagan/Bush stuff WAS with the permission of the others, who even participated. And again, this is putting aside that I think Trump is not even a politician. He's a completely different thing.)

Oh, I thought there were two issues here: The covid issue AND the political issue. I have a problem with both.

I should add here, since apparently I missed the point of the thread, I would say Brian should do it under his own name IF there wasn't a pandemic. Given the pandemic, I would be horrified if he (or anyone else) did it at all.

Sorry to hear that Billy. I know of other people that have also suffered terrible consequences.

The thing with Trump, like Boris Johnson in UK, is that they both were able to jump the queue as it were and get the best preemptive treatment before their cases developed. Sadly that cannot be available to everyone, but I fear their high profile recoveries downplayed some people's sense of how serious the virus can be, unless they have first or second hand experience of it.

Hi Rocky.  No, I didn't miss that point.  I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'.   Survival rates are over 99.9% and nearly half of the reported deaths are dying WITH COVID, not OF COVID.  And American numbers include all the states where liberal Governors placed COVID patients in nursing homes with those most susceptible!  I live near Lancaster, PA where this occurred.  It was truly heartbreaking.  The elderly were killed and then the numbers are now used on Biden ads as political fodder.   The numbers are completely overstated and the real truth is in overall deaths from year to year.   We all have family in the medical field and some in the undertaking field continually exposing death certificates where COVID was slapped on because of the financial incentives.  We also all have families with real examples of healthy people dying of COVID.  No doubt, the virus is real and dangerous, but its been totally blown out of proportion for government control which is making much worse scenarios than simply protecting those most vulnerable.  Luckily, Trump cut off travel to China early on.   Remember, the experts stated for years including this spring that masks do nothing.   Now, people are turning against each other because they bought into the hype that MY MASK PROTECTS YOU.   No, your mask is having more ill affects on you having to breathe your own 'exhaust' all day long.   We could publicize stories on a daily basis of heathly individuals dying from a variety of common illnesses.   This was an evil political opportunity.  For instance, cancer patients are in much higher numbers and always have been more susceptible to illnesses and we didn't care for them with COVID-like precautions??   And obviously, the media is outraged by Trump's rallies but has no problem with the racist protestors that rioted in our USA cities and streets most of the summer months???

Cool, I hope you get infected since you seem to think it's no big deal.

Waiter....check and my coat please.  :o

The bottom line is that I’m concerned for them. Hasn’t Bruce had some health issues in recent years?
Once again I’m so glad Brian and his band aren’t touring, and that one of his last shows was in suburban New Orleans on the first weekend of Carnival (Mardi Gras). Mainly locals that weekend. The following weekend people came from all over the world, and the city for the next month or two rivaled New York City as “ground zero” in the US. Nowadays the city is super safe compared to the rest of the country (infection rate around 1% -  some places in the US have infection rates over 20%). But trust me it was so sad dealing with sick friends, overflowing Intensive Care areas, several “icons” in the city succumbing.
Please, please take it seriously. Wear the freakin mask! Thank you.

From the UK - while I'm no doubt in your ballpark of the argument, it's only fair (to the truth, whatever that is these days) to point out that the British PM did not receive any preferential treatment, in fact (as so often in this crisis) was slow off the mark to get himself into a hospital ward. Once there, he had oxygen but, as far as we know, no special drugs (unlike DT). He went back to work far too early in the opinion of some, who felt he may have suffered some short term memory loss. Secondly, BJ's near-death experience with Covid actually sharpened the UK population's understanding of it, not the reverse. And I'm not a fan (of either man). Since then, the mostly very aware UK population has been rather let down by the indecisiveness of its leaders (in England, at least).... but you certainly wouldn't get a carefree election rally happening here.

This one always makes us think over here. China - cases 85,685, deaths 4,634; USA - cases 8,428,386, deaths 225,044.

One of those numbers is vastly underreported based on independent research from Wuhan, urn distribution and cremation statistics not to mention almost universal lack of testing and reporting by a Communist government and one of those numbers is vastly overreported based on deaths while testing positive for COVID but not dying from COVID symptoms.   

Fair points. I would only contend that, even if the PM was slow getting into hospital, others had to wait weeks from diagnosis to being considered ill enough to be accepted into hospital, and for some it was sadly too late.

Yes I would be skeptical of those China numbers.

I feel like this event, on the heels of the despicable trophy hunting event, and on the heels of all of the garbage that Mike continually heaps on the brand name, is eventually going to lead to a "We Are the World"-esque "tribute" song, perhaps called "Mike Makes Us Hurl", dedicated to Mike and his ultimate sucktitude by an array of celebrity musicians who despise him (there is no shortage). For approximately 1000 reasons, Mike is cementing his legacy as a comic book level villain, and will irrevocably going down in music history as the most hated dude in the history of rock music.  

Hi Nathan,

It looks like you're taking in a lot of politicized news sources and anecdotes. A lot of the information you're citing has been repeatedly refuted in non-biased fact checks by apolitical groups, and I'd encourage you to be more wary of the places you're getting news from and to try googling some of the information you're citing with the words "fact check" in there to get an alternate perspective from people focused more on accuracy than political perspective.

Best of luck

also, take your pro-Trump/anti-Obama garbage elsewhere. no one wants to hear that BS here

Quick question, do you also go by the name Q?

Hello.   Thanks for being cordial with me.  I appreciate it because I know I'm spewing a lot of thoughts contradictory to a lot of the posters.   :)   I do realize that many of my comments probably sound like CNN versus Fox.  Ha ha.  You might be surprised to know that we don't subscribe to any TV service in my house.   I don't entirely oppose Fox news, but I watch zero of it because the political sides and arguments lead to so much negativity that I don't want to harp on it each night.   While the survival rates are from the CDC based on prominent age groups, my main points were from a personal prospective.   I have 5 close relatives in the medical field reporting on their thoughts/oversights in inaccurate testing and their insight.   My wife's close family owes a funeral home/undertaking service and has illustrated the inaccuracies in death certificates and policy changes related to COVID funding to insurance companies.   Some were just blatant lies.  The still serious nature of COVID was gained by my own relatives (not immediate family) that had COVID.  We experienced a small handful of COVID related deaths in our extended family.  They were older, higher risk individuals.  As I stated previously, I am also familiar with some of the small business in Lancaster county, PA that were greatly affected during the lockdown and who had first hand knowledge of some of their very own family that died in nursing homes when COVID patients were initially introduced to the facilities.  The death rates pushed the county numbers sky high and our Gov. Tom Wolf (Democrat) chose to shut down commerce by individual county counts which had great detrimental harm to citizens and small business.  

Okay, no problem.  Duly noted.   I rarely post, but since I saw a couple pages only showing mostly one opinion, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.  I'll shut up now.

What “racist protestors” are you talking about dude? If you’re implying civil rights protests in the name of equality for black people is “racist” against white people like I think you are, you can GO F*U*C*K* YOURSELF and I don’t care if I get banned for saying it.

And Mike Love is a piece of sh*t for playing a Trump fundraiser, he can f*** off too. Though I still love Wild Honey.

 Succinct and to the point thanks Donny!

+1. Right on the money.

Wow. Just. Wow.

I'm sorry to hear that, Billy, I hope you are on the mend.

I can only imagine it must be extra insulting as a Covid survivor and as somebody who has been dealing with complications for Mike to be breaking those rules and showing a lack of disregard, playing a show in front of a bunch of anti-masking idiots, and having people in this thread try to downplay Covid.

I personally know several friends, and friends of friends, who have actually passed away from Covid - people who were not elderly, in their 40s and early 50s. One had a pre-existing health condition, one didn't. As even Chris Christie himself has said, this disease is very random in how it manifests in people. There's lots that we don't know. In fact if there's one thing for certain that we do know, it's that we know that we don't know as much as we should know in order to make an informed decision to try to downplay it.  

So people who want to downplay Covid with their horseshit facts can seriously take a long walk off a short pier. That downplaying mindset plays directly into the same narcissistic simpleton mindset that Mike Love has, where he can only understand the world as it relates to his own personal experiences affecting his own dumbass, privileged self, as opposed to actually being an empath for once in his life.

There's a certain mindset that a section of people on this planet have: things are disregarded and are not considered a problem that they are willing to recognize/tackle/address *until it happens to them personally*, until their own life is detrimentally affected by it. Mike very much seems to fit the bill of that kind of person.

Side note: Am I misremembering, or did one of Mike's brothers call Blondie the N-word or something similarly disgusting in the early 1970s, thus leading to him quitting?  I'm guessing that is behavior which the white supremacist fellow Luckey who put on this Trump event would have been totally fine with, and I'll bet half or more of the attendees would just look the other way at it without any care.

Modern Republicans do not think that the rules apply to them.  That is their only philosophy at this point.  Everything else has been mortgaged in an attempt to grab as much power as possible.  Nathan Snyder's opinions as stated in this thread reflect this general asocial mentality and need to be shouted down repeatedly until he finds new ones that don't ignore our shared reality, willfully and in damaging fashion. 

Mike Love probably likes Joe Biden as well and would play his Southern California rally if Biden threw a bag of cash at him.  He is just so unscrupulous that he's one of the last dogs left that will jump at Trump's bone. 

Yep. The part above which I highlighted in yellow fits in exactly with Mike's behavior regarding the BBs brand name, since 1998 in particular. Completely makes sense why such a warped person as Mike would support such as warped candidate as Trump.

Except I'm not in agreement that he'd play any sort of Biden rally.  Ever.

Look at Mike's frothing fanbase of flag-waving, low information fans. They have gotten hugely upset at *Brian* simply for distancing himself from Mike's inauguration show. Brian's press release also played it softball a bit in terms of the language that was used in terms of not being overly vicious and overly political, yet still Brian online nevertheless gets a bunch of blowback from idiot right wingers who hate the Democrats so much that they're willing to boycott Brian Wilson himself.  

Granted that's probably a small amount, but point being, Mike - while being someone who doubles down on what he feels, and while he seems to pretend to not care about getting heat for stuff - in reality would not want to piss off his increasingly right wing fanbase by promoting Joe Biden. For any cost. I mean, if Mike played a Biden rally for a ton of cash, Mike would absolutely get a bunch of right wingers boycotting his shows, because they already view Mike as their hero for repeatedly associating with Trump as few celebrities from bands are willing to do.  And I'll bet that ALL of Mike's "friends" (aka sycophants) are Trump voters in his pathetic rich person bubble. Not sure any bag of cash would get him to do anything pro-Biden. Plus, Bruce is a massive, massive hater of Democrats and I don't see him doing any Biden show either, not for any amount of money.

Mike just probably looks up to Trump's power grabbing dictator mentality, because that's just how Mike is, and also I'm sure Mike is salivating at Trump's history of granting rewards to pop culture celebrity imbeciles like Rush Limbaugh, and he is angling to be next in line for something like that which will further feed his insatiable ego.

I agree that Mike will do just about anything for money, and that he is a completely unscrupulous human being, yet I think he proved with C50 that if something will feed his ego, he'll prioritize that carrot of ego stroking over any monetary reward, even if that shoots himself in the foot longterm. The Trump fans (and Trump himself) will continue stroking Mike's ego in such a massive way, and that would not in a million years happen with any hypothetical Biden association.

Mike's an addict, addicted to ego stroking and power. Money comes 2nd, if there's a choice between the two. His WILSONS DID DRUGS endless diarrhea is akin to any sort of hypocritical clergy people who are hiding the very traits they loudly rail against.

Someone needs to write a book about the similarities between Mike and Trump, and how their behaviors have reeked havoc (on massively different scales, but still with striking similarities nevertheless) on what they have had power over.  Mike really is the Donald Trump of the music world.

Quarantine, better yet, sequester, Nathan Snyder. Plz.  :)

Yes, to all of this.

A lot of TDS on this thread. Whatever you think of him, please remember he is the first President in decades to not start a war. Brokered the middle east peace deal. Remember the guarantees from CNN, MSNBC, and many in the media? The economy will crash, Russian collusion will be proven, minority unemployment will hit all time highs, there will be a war with North Korea, the embassy will not be moved to Jerusalem, the stock market will crash,. How many of these have panned out? Trump donates his salary. But he won't denounce white supremacy right? Oh only dozens of times. Look at all the decrepit democratic run cities....hmmm? When a story comes out about Biden's corruption FB and Twitter ban it. They claim not verified while allowing countless Trump stories to remain up even after being debunked. The fact that this post will probably force this thread to be locked  because it shines a good light on The President after pages of open Trump bashing has been allowed might be something to think about.

A proud supporter of President Trump right there ↑

If you're so proud, share your name on here instead of hiding behind the "joe_blow" nonsense! Be proud of your support of Stormy Daniels' tiny mushroom-shaped-penis-having former lover!

Damn right it was upsetting. I had to log off before I said something I’d regret.


Re: last paragraph....yep, that happened

I can't imagine what Blondie is feeling like right now about both Love brothers. Man.

I'm sure Blondie didn't forget what was said back then, just as I'd imagine that awful memory would probably cross his mind when seeing Mike publicly (using Blondie's former band) supporting a white supremacist "stand back and stand by" sympathizer who has "never been anything but kind to us".

Keep defending Trump, y'all. And Mike too. Great, great people with enormous capacities for empathy, and totally not narcissists in the slightest. Totally not whatsoever.

This may be the ugliest thread on this board in its entire history. Honestly moving it to the sandbox might be appropriate, except for the Mike part of it. You know what the most f***ed up part of this whole thing (besides having to read the complete and utter bullshit downplaying a disease that has killed so  many people and affected so many lives, including my own )? Keeping it BB related, the band’s name is associated with an event that is going to have a negative impact on the brand (and would even if they were supporting Biden), which may *potentially* turn some people off to the point they won’t be interested in the boxed set. Unless....that’s one of the reasons he did it. Oh sh*t....hmm...

He’s close to starting a civil war with his complete and absolute lack of leadership and any sense of responsibility. I don’t care for Biden either - and I’m not a Democrat.

You’re drinking the kool-aid bro - “decrepit Democrat run cities” ha. It’s always beautiful here in Oakland CA - but clearly you’re watching Fox News and listening to Trump’s propaganda or something.

I agree with you and the right wing on Facebook, Twitter, etc - censorship in every way. Who the hell is FB - one of the shadiest corporations to ever exist - to tell me what is “disinformation”? Ha. But two wrongs don’t make a right. Trump is exceedingly dangerous. We’ve all been warned. Biden is by far the lesser of two evils. And they are both evil indeed.

Can I implore people to be civil, even when faced with opinions that you may find extremely upsetting? We have to learn (or re-learn) to have some tolerance for views that dont match our own.  There are some opinions that have been stated here that I disagree with 100%, but that's okay.  The hate and division have to stop somewhere.

More peopl liked this tweet than signed the Feel Flows petition  :lol

I think we can respectfully discuss political differences - I personally am not firmly liberal nor conservative. I’ve registered Independent, Republican, and Democrat to vote for various candidates over the years.

But when statements made in this thread are personally offensive to me, I respond appropriately.

Same here (I’m also independent and vote based on the candidates), and definitely agree with the last statement.

If this really upsets Brian and Al as much it as upsets the people on this board, then they should use this as an excuse to revoke the touring license Mike has.
I do seem to recall the Beach Boys playing for the Reagan's a couple times, was anyone upset about that?
I hate Donald Trump. IMO, he is the worst President the US has ever had. If Mike Love wants to throw his support being a rude, vile, lying fascist with a bad haircut, that's his right. If it bothers me, then I should stop going to his concerts, stop buying his music.
Fortunately, I am able to keep music and politics separate, and, for example, still enjoy the music of the Charlie Daniels Band, even  though the guy was a raving "right wing Bible in one hand, assault rifle in the other" lunatic.

Rolling Stone is running the story on their Facebook page.

As expected, Mike is being savaged!

Terrible PR for the brand and future sales for projects like the
“Feel Flows” Box.

Yep, this thread has brought the trumpfuqing termites out of the woodwoork.
When I joined I thought this place might be too good to be true. My first inclination was right.

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

Might I suggest that you treat those who are different than you with an ounce of respect/sympathy. We all come from different backgrounds and all have different brain chemistry. We all have vastly different viewpoints that conflict with one-another. But we also have the ability to talk about those conflicting viewpoints in a rational manner that can lead to bridges being built instead of burned. I think we can all agree that name-calling and discrimination will only lead to more hurt.

Basically, if you think a certain group is being fascist, perhaps don't adopt their tactics and instead be a light in the darkness you see.

With that out of the way. I do not think Mike should do this concert. Two things:

- Keep the music away from any form of politics. Pet Sounds was recently called out for it's supposed racist "impact" (https://www.popmatters.com/racializing-rock-the-60s-and-the-white-sounds-of-pet-sounds-2495414567.html) on culture. Whether or not you think Trump is a racist, he is still a lightning rod for racial controversy. And for a band whose first major hit was a complete rip off of an African American's rock song (who had to sue to get credit on the song), its probably not the best optics to align your band with such a political minefield right now. Especially during this time of racial divide in our country. To piggy-back this, there are those who think The Beach Boys legacy can never be tarnished - might I suggest they read the PopMatters article I linked above, and contemplate how in this day and age anything can be distorted to fit a narrative. As the PopMatters article shows, The Beach Boys aren't immune to political controversy, especially if Mike Love keeps stepping into the political swamp.

- COVID-19. At this point I've known a lot of people who have gotten COVID, and I'd be very surprised if I wasn't exposed to it yet. I'm fairly certain the survival rate is incredibly high. However, it is still deadly to a certain group of people. Based on studies I have seen, I don't think that socially distanced outdoor venues are super-spreader events, however, there is still a chance of spreading the virus. I hope that anyone who does attend this event isn't of a vulnerable age-group (which actually excludes The Beach Boys themselves from this event lol). Edit; and I want to add that the concert/fundraiser would most likely very much not be a socially distanced one. So again, I don't think it should take place.

By the way, the headline name is "Mike Love and The Beach Boys"? Wouldn't this be more appropriate as "Mike Love and a Beach Boy" considering Bruce is the only other official member of the band who plays in that touring group?

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox. It gives insight on why you're seeing this behavior. I'm not sure what the answer is, but no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it. Unfortunately we're all being drug down.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.


But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

Rab makes good points The guy that befriended KKK members? Daryl Davis, he's a musician too. What a man. He has certainly seen "a thing or two".

https://www.ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_what_do_you_do_when_someone_just_doesn_t_like_you/transcript?language=en

Billy good shout , or even DELETE this thread - I am a simple Englishman  ;D and really don't want to read American Politics (if thats what its called) and loads of racist slurs on a BB's forum
This thread really is dividing US (as in us , you & me etc) FANS and turning into another shitstorm (one of AGDs greatest comments)   

I can't thank you enough for posting this link. Everyone should really read/watch that...the part about the ice bucket! The Joe Rogan episode is very interesting as well: full of amazing stories with this guy.

"Very important, folks. If you have an adversary, you don't have to respect what they're saying, but respect their right to say it. And have that conversation. We spend too much time talking about each other, at each other, past each other, and not enough time talking with each other. That is respect. Okay?"

I have plenty to learn from this man. I hope one day to be as tolerant and open-hearted.

I also implore everyone to pick up a copy of Martin Luther King's "auto"biography (https://www.amazon.com/Autobiography-Martin-Luther-King-Jr/dp/0446676500/ref=sr_1_3?crid=19DEC66WOHQ3H&dchild=1&keywords=martin+luther+king+jr+autobiography&qid=1603203665&sprefix=Martin+Luther+King+JR+auto%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-3). It is an amazing insight into how he used love and not hate to fight against bigotry.

While there is a lot of divisiveness in this thread, I do hope some avenues of tolerance can be opened here as well. I do understand that everyone has their own viewpoints, I don't think that any poster here seriously wishes ill-will on anyone else.

And to bring it back on topic, I am opposed to Mike playing this concert (for reasons stated above) and I would hope that these guys would be putting their focus on releasing Feel Flows instead. It is incredibly heartbreaking to think that this set (as it is right now) will likely never see the light of day. The music for the fans, for the good of our souls, should take precedence over anything else.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

M&B are hurting the legacy big time....

Imagine a mirror universe where the Beach Boys individually and collectively had their sh*t together even 5%; imagine a mirror universe where something as SIMPLE and NO-BRAINER and COMMON as putting out a f**king boxed set was allowed to happen, and imagine also that Mike didn't play gigs like this.

As much as the BBs f*ck things up repeatedly, they're *still* so lucky that they're so often just a few SIMPLE and EASY decisions away from alleviating so many problems and bringing so much joy, and laying out a scenario where everybody is happy and commiserating about something good.

And they just CANNOT bring themselves to do it.

And history will marginalize them more and more because of it. They seem to mostly not care, and at least one member seems determined to hasten the demise.

So, will Mike turn on John Stamos after he tweets (and gets a lot of publicity) about wanting to be part of Ron Howard's Happy Days reunion fundraiser for Joe Biden?? 
https://twitter.com/JohnStamos/status/1318411763436515329 (https://twitter.com/JohnStamos/status/1318411763436515329)

Stamos has gone rogue! >:D

And over 98% from pre existing conditions....but that isn't the narrative is it?

All that really is is Stamos trying to do some sort of softball subtle hint to let the world know that he isn't a Trump supporter. He probably thinks he's very clever by just tossing it out there in such a veiled manner, as opposed to actually taking a stand and speaking out against Trump or against Mike... but he's got his tongue too far up Mike's butt to do anything like that.

I don't think he would have even made this tweet if Mike wasn't associating with Trump in a very high profile manner right now. It's just Stamos' way of taking a little bit of the heat off of himself and nothing more.

Sidebar and nothing to do with Mike, except it must kill him:  a little searching shows Stamos was supporting and fundraising for Pete Buttigieg in the early days of the race. And he's been very active in efforts to register voters, etc.

It's putrid in here now, with all the Trump people spouting off.

Whew, it's time for me to levitate.

Just stating facts and instead of refuting them you resort to name calling. Classic leftism. Scott Now....tell me what of the above list  WILL happen this time when Trump wins.

Go away to foxnews.com...

I know it ruins your point, but he liked many anti-Trump tweets and pro-Biden tweets before now. I spotted some when he posted his FF tweet that made everyone briefly label him our lord and saviour for a day.

I think Mike looks at it as a paying gig, and that is it.

Um, no. Not even close.

Fair enough, but Stamos liking a few tweets is still a pretty softball thing to do when he is still regularly stuck like glue to Mike who is now very famously in the most high profile of ways attempting to help Trump win reelection. Including mere days after Mike does this Trump stunt. Uncle Jesse wants to have it both ways. I call BS on that.

Nobody is forcing Uncle Jesse to take any sort of a more stern stand to show what he believes in, to show what's really actually important to him, that's clearly up to him. Clearly being buddies with Mike outweighs any urge he might have to take any more of a stand. I'm sure he's not alone, I'd assume that not all members of Mike's band are necessarily Trump voters either. Doesn't mean I have a hell of a lot of respect for them either for their continued association with Mike. My right to feel that way, just as it's your right if you want to think Trump and Mike are decent, non-narcissists with great capacities for empathy.

 

If I see just *one* more post downplaying the dangers of Covid here one more time, we’re going to have a serious issue here. I’m laying that out here right now

New Mike interview (though conducted before the news hit about the recent gig):

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2020/10/20/beach-boys-mike-love-john-stamos-plan-trio-drive-shows/5992043002/

A lot of it is a carbon copy of the stuff he's been saying for years (it's not Brian, it's the people around Brian, etc.) It's so similar I was almost convinced they re-ran part of an old interview.

:lol

I love it!

"I could work with Brian anytime," he says. "That's not a problem. It's a question of whether he's permitted to come out and play."

As Ray Lawlor said years ago: Brian has his own cell phone with an actual number. If Mike wants to call Brian up he's more than able to do so. In the age of COVID I would imagine that a face-to-face meet would be frowned upon due to their age/health. So why not a FaceTime call Mike? Haven't you heard of Zoom yet?

Also, I love that Mike just assumes that Brian would be fully willing to work with him. As this video (https://youtu.be/XZjRW6K0AM8?t=20) suggests, I highly doubt that Brian even has any interest in working with Mike...that is unless the marionette was moving Brian's mouth to say those things for that interview.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e200/walruswasrob/001_IMG_1448.PNG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

Mike acts like the world revolves around him. He constantly gives Brian sh*t for his mental illness, but last time I checked, narcissist personality disorder is a mental disorder as well. He’s probably completely unaware but he’s a lot more like his uncle Murry than he’d care to admit

I will try again, Trump has offered Mike a cabinet position for adding surfing lyrics to speeches.  Mike got on board after Trump told him that he was the most fantastic surf word man in the entire universe.

Absolutely. I mean, if we really think about it, just because someone with narcissist personality disorder is able to be highly functioning, give interviews, play shows, etc. etc., it's highly irresponsible of the people around that person - including the family and extended family of that person - to coddle that behavior.

I keep wondering about when Mike said "they say Mike's crazy... well they've been saying that for years" (I'm paraphrasing) at the infamous 88 speech... who was the "they" referring to? I mean, fans have hated Mike's guts for decades, but were they actually telling him that he had mental illness issues, or were music articles being written up inferring he had mental illness? I can only recall seeing articles talking about the Wilson brothers' mental health issues. That's widely known, widely talked about. So I don't see Mike's issues as being off limits as I'm predicting some people might try to jump in here to say.

To use the term "crazy" is a pretty big deal, yet I'm sure some will dismiss it as off the cuff. But who are the "they" that were telling him that he was crazy or had a mental illness? Serious question. Because people around him should have been trying to actually address his narcissist personality disorder in an actual productive way for so many years, yet of course it's also the hardest (if not impossible) of mental disorders to treat.

You'd *hope* that if anyone actually truly cared about Mike as a human being first, and not viewing him as a human ATM machine for what they can eventually get out of him from his will, that those people would have really, really tried to address this with him. Maybe someone did, and he lashed out at them, and maybe they are the "they" in his speech.

I truly wonder how many of the people who adamantly defend Mike (or Trump supporters, for that manner) have been victimized by narcissists in their life, are acutely aware of the disease of narcissism, and are not in some kind of denial about what it is and how it manifests. It really is one of the most unfortunate and repugnant things that a person can be afflicted with, and it's also absolutely tragic. To be truly aware of what narcissist personality disorder is, to connect those dots, and to have personally gone through dealing with that type of personality, would tend to make most emotionally intelligent people allergic to the personality traits of Mike and Trump. Like fingernails down a chalkboard.

I'm honestly not sure if I've ever made that connection before...but it makes complete sense.

Really makes me wonder about Mike's mom, and if she had parenting styles similar to her brother Murry.

Mike is a really, really f*cked up individual, yet I'm sure some of it is biological too, which is tragic.

I've tried really hard to have empathy for him as a human being, and I do have empathy that he got mentally warped and damaged in the 1960s by being screwed out of some credits unfairly. The fact that he tried to overcorrect with stuff like WIBN is unfortunate, but anyone - no matter how much they might understandably hate his guts, including OSD and literally everyone - should at least say that it must have sucked for him to have not gotten credit on some songs that he actually wrote. He'll get that much of a pass from me. (I still contend that Mike acting like a narcissistic twat even at a young age might have caused Brian to passive aggressively lash out at Mike by going along with the Murry screw job).

But pretty much everything else in Mike's narcissistic personality is on him, and on the sycophants around him coddling his behavior and ego for decades, who tell him that he is acting like anything resembling a decent human being. Shameful.

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/119990761_2680051242264889_6620975168675640963_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=dd9801&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=grAucH75yM4AX9_i-R1&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&tp=14&oh=53de108c94399de400a120d618763a74&oe=5FB5E0C5)

Or just follow the herd without evidence? Still awaiting a response to my "Pro Trump" thread without name calling. If you don't vote Biden you ain't_____. Fill that in and justify your vote.

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

Not the same. You either get it or you don't.  This transcends politics,  which is why there wasn't nearly this much disgust the 87 other times pre-2016 that Mike and Bruce expressed their political views. 

I thought the shows with Reagan were billed as "patriotic" shows involving the sitting president.  If I'm correct, that's very different from playing a campaign fundraiser two weeks before an election.  Mike is not playing for Trump in his capacity as the president, but rather as a candidate.
 

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.

Agreed. If this is a matter of life and death I don’t understand why name-calling would be the first reaction to mis/disinformation. If someone is ill-informed then just rationally correct them instead of...shouting at them like they are an animal? If falsehoods are being spread, for the good of everyone please just state facts to refute these falsehoods instead of grabbing pitchforks.

If facts are on your side then just merely present them. I say this because there could be people legitimately confused by the false information, and if you know better, and it could save lives, it is your responsibility to present the facts. And one could argue “they are too far gone to understand the facts” - then don’t do it for them but do it for the confused person who randomly scans this thread and walks away with the impression that Nathan and Joe_Blow seem to be correct because no one has refuted any of their points by presenting actual evidence...one of the first responses to Nathan was “I hope you get Covid”. Someone else said that the information Nathan shared was wrong but cited no sources that could refute the information.

It looks very poorly on the side of the “truth” when shouting someone down like they’re an animal is your initial and only reaction to hearing falsehoods instead of just presenting the truth in a calm and sensible manner...which does a lot more good for the world than treating someone like they’re a dog and you’re a real shitty owner.

It probably has to do with this mentality: https://www.boredpanda.com/bar-bartender-nazi-punk-iamragesparkle/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic - and I get that whole thread reads like a fwd:fwd:fwd exchange that likely did not happen.

Ever been on a forum where people are casually racist/fascist/sexist/ and/or anti-science? Where the topics are open for debate? They're not that pleasant and those opinions are peppered throughout - not my culture and it's exhausting. I don't think shouting down is about getting your ideological "getting it" - it's about setting house rules and making it clear that they should take their opinions somewhere else. I understand the call for civility, it's asking for a lot of patience, emotional intelligence, and capacity for empathy that not everyone is equipped to give. Props to that black musician who rehabilitated some klan members, he is a saint.  Kudos to you all if you follow that path, the world would be a better place.

My point is that Trump supporters are accused of being fascist but what you just described (highlighted in yellow and in bold) is fascism: forcible suppression of opposition. I hope everyone can see the hypocrisy there.

You've brought up the tolerance of intolerance paradox. But I think what you're failing to recognize is that you're then assuming that Trump supporters are lesser-than-human status that deserve sub-human treatment when in fact not every single Trump supporter is a neo-nazi hell-bent on destroying the world. When you generalize an entire group of people you become the type of person you supposedly abhor. I know so many people who voted for Obama TWICE who are Trump supporters now. There is an ever-growing movement of African American's who support Trump (according to multiple recent polls (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-losing-ground-with-white-voters-but-gaining-among-black-and-hispanic-americans/) Trump has gained a bit of African American support since 2016) - and I specifically bring this up because if people are going to flatly state that Trump and all of his supporters are dumb racists then you are either questioning the intelligence of 25% of likely African American voters or you are turning a blind eye to this fact.

Either way, you can't treat the Trump supporting population like they're not even worthy of hearing facts (to the point people want them booted from this forum) - because you delegitimize your own platform and thus create an atmosphere of uncertainty regarding your own ideology that doesn't sway too many moderates to your side. If you have facts, please use them! I implore it for the good of the country/world. If people are going to die if we don't wear masks, then please cite the source that shows that masks can help prevent this....like this link (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449). If Nathan or Joe have scientific evidence that refutes this, by all means post it and please explain it in detail. My wife works in healthcare and completely understands how less-effective cloth masks are compared to N95 masks. However, we also wear masks when we're at the grocery store and other places because if we unknowingly have the virus, it can help keep others from getting the virus.

Back to my main point, the side that claims to have science and truth on it's side should not lower themselves to bigoted and discriminating behavior. Resorting to bullying and refusing to refute falsehoods with credible sources only legitimizes the viewpoints that you think are wrong...and in the end it is more harmful to the world, because when falsehoods go unchecked then more and more people are going to be swayed by that false information.

roffels, I appreciate your posts and I hope I don't come across as speaking from a high horse. I myself can use my own advice, not only in the field of politics but also when it comes to discussing The Beach Boys. I'm not the most tolerant person at times but I do see the endless value of treating others with civility.

First I just want to say that I side with much of Sam_BFC, rab2591, and marcella27's posts in this thread. Too bad there's not a 'like' button here!


Interesting distinction, FatherOfTheMan. Very thought-provoking.

Because trump is a monster?

The troubling fact that certain Beach Boys are prize-winning douche bags shouldn't come as breaking news to followers of this forum, but this sort of occurrence does make it harder to separate the person from the music.

Great rhetoric. Is it because he put kids in cages...oh wait that was Obama, was it not? Is it because he donates his salary? Please explain the evidence of being a monster. Still waiting for the answers on why you seem to be against the good things The President has accomplished.

 This is a BBs forum... ::)

It's about time Mike Love was stripped of his touring license as The Beach Boys, and banished to a life of touring nursing homes and hat shops as "Mike Love and his Endless Covid Summer Band featuring Bruce "Short Shorts" Johnston and John "Uncle Jesse" Stamos". The bald one has brought nothing but disgrace to the name, he's a not-talent that would be pumping gas in Kokomo if not for his cousin Brian. He sings like his nose is on the critical list, and he's incapable of writing a lyric that doesn't reference Good Vibrations, Fun Fun Fun, and Surfer Girls.
That's not enough, though. The Maharishi of Bad Press should be prevented from performing any of the classic Brian Wilson composed Beach Boys hits. He can still sing the many hits he composed without Brian - Kokomo, and .....and....well, he might have to stick to selections from Summer in Paradise and covers like Barbara Ann.
Let's take this a step further or farther, though - let's remove the vocals of the Nasal One from all Beach Boys recordings; surely Brian or Al could sing any of those songs better - even today. Give a few of the leads to Matt Jardine or Blondie or Darian. We can paste Darian's face over Mike's on all the album covers, too.

Looking at your post history, especially your recent post history, you seem to be far more interested talking about politics than you do the BBs. I'm pretty sure there are many, many, many forums (e.g. the entirety of Twitter) to discuss politics without pesky Beach Boys topics getting in the way. That way, you don't have to wait for someone on a Beach Boys forum to say something negative about a politician you like. On Twitter for instance, you can post about politics as much as you want with no prompting whatsoever.

It's like going into a political forum and waiting for someone to say they don't like the Beach Boys and then haranguing them about it. What's the point?

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

If a moritiorium on political talk is going to apply to Trump supporters then it should absolutely apply to everyone then. But this topic kinda forces us to talk about politics because politics are one of the reasons many are so upset about The Beach Boys playing this event. And if one side is allowed to share their viewpoint on the political aspect of this discussion then I think the other side should absolutely have this right as well.

And I think it's for the good of the forum that people are as descriptive and detailed as possible in their responses here. If people are going to say "Trump is a monster and that's why Mike shouldn't play this gig" then give specific reasons as to why Trump is a monster. I think this would be incredibly beneficial for two reasons:

One, if specific reasons were given in the first place then it would be an open and shut case that Mike shouldn't play this gig based on politics and people like Joe_Blow couldn't respond with these random talking points that validate their viewpoint (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/26/fact-check-obama-administration-built-migrant-cages-meme-true/3413683001/) (however I would like to correct Joe: Obama did build and use the "cages" but Trump used them too - it wasn't just Obama that used them as your post implies).

Two, people shouldn't assume that everyone here keeps up with the news or the latest Sunday morning shows. And we also shouldn't assume that people who look back on these threads decades from now will be as read-up on this era of politics as we are. This forum is a time-capsule of sorts, an encyclopedia that future Beach Boys fans will probably mine for information, and it is our responsibility to be as factual and detailed as possible for the sake of a proper historical record of this band's activities.

Just my two cents. If others are allowed to share their political viewpoints in this thread I don't see why others with different viewpoints are being led away from this forum. It is likely easy to refute many of the points that Nathan and Joe have brought up. And it is also likely easy to cite and source the reasons, politically, why Mike should not align The Beach Boys brand with Donald Trump. This is a forum and there will be disagreements, it is best we handle those disagreements like adults and explain our viewpoints.

I have already stated my reasons (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27383.msg666462.html#msg666462) as to why Mike should not play this gig. And on top of that, I agree with those who brought up Donald Trump Jr mocking Brian Wilson for being a "triggered liberal" (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26915.msg658060.html#msg658060) during the trophy hunting gig. After that incident Mike should have had the decency to pull out of the trophy hunting gig as well as cutting ties with anything to do with the Trump family from then on. Absolute shame he is dragging the band through the mud yet again.

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.

Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Just look at Chris Christie as a recent example. Granted he himself was in the high risk group, but there are countless people who have died who seemed healthy and were not obese or elderly. I'd like to see the people in this thread who are downplaying Covid and observe how they would react if their own healthy spouse or child died from Covid, would their tune change? Not that I'm wishing that on anybody, but I have a suspicion that they would not be of that same mindset anymore if something like that happened to them.

Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to proactively empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Nope, nope, back up.

There is a difference between discussing how politics plays into a development in the Beach Boys world and just lurking on a Beach Boys board (or near lurking) and then just swooping in with a political post with zero BB content just to offer a rebuttal to something they don't like.

Obviously, any time someone in the BB world (meaning almost always Mike) does something involving politics that many or most find abhorrent, there's a quick slippery slope from discussing how it impacts the BBs to then just turning into another tired political debate that could be had anywhere.

But the people I'm talking about are a small group of members here who rarely post, whose post history clearly shows that they don't participate or add much to any regular BB discussions, and seem to mostly post only quick, often snide political posts with zero BB content.

So yeah, if someone posts *about* the BBs and also talks about politics, that *is* different than someone plucking a political comment *out* of that post and then just rebutting political talking points. This often seems to happen with posters who otherwise mostly lurk, which indicates to me that they don't have much interest in posting about the BB's, but do have interest in posting about politics. There are other places for that.

In short, I'm much less suspicious of the motives of a poster here who posts something veering into politics who *also* has regularly posted about the BBs. It tells me they might be getting roped into some political stuff, which may or may not end up working well on the board, but that they're coming from a place first and foremost of being a BB fan. I'm more suspicious of lurkers who mostly or exclusively appear out of nowhere only to A) Defend Mike Love in general, B) Defend Mike Love's politics, and C) Defend Trump, et al. While I can't assume such people have *no* interest in the BBs if they're on this board, this posting pattern indicates they don't seem interested in contributing to the board in terms of BB fandom or scholarship, and that's fine if folks want to lurk. But when someone only goes out of shy lurker mode to post political talking points, that's unfortunate and indicative of all the things I've already laid out.

Billy, I'm very sorry to hear this :-\

And CenturyDeprived, I think it's a matter of there being conflicting reports from the very beginning of the pandemic that led many people to distrust the news and their political leaders. When Trump was shutting down air travel to China many politicians here were here in America telling people to get out in the streets en mass and ignore the virus. We were told by Fauci that masks were useless then he changed his tune about that. There is an ocean of misinformation/disinformation and conflicting reports that have only served to hurt public trust in media and leadership (on both sides of the aisle) in this country.

I have friends who have lost loved ones due to COVID, my good friend still hasn't recovered his sense of smell or taste and he got the virus months ago, I can't see a dying family member right now because of this virus. So I for one do not see this thing as a hoax, it's a serious disease. I hope those of us who see things from this perspective can have sympathy/empathy on those who are so far led astray to think that this virus doesn't even exist...as in, while I vehemently oppose their viewpoint, I also realize there is so much bullshit information out there (and has been from the beginning) that many people just don't know any better. Which is why, you're absolutely right, it takes a personal experience for many of these people to realize that this virus absolutely exists and absolutely is deadly. It's a sad reality. But this is why fighting falsehoods with facts is extremely important right now. It can save lives.

Century, because too many people only care about themselves.

I definitely see your point here. And with that said I do think this very situation stresses the importance of posters being as detailed as possible and listing facts in the first place so there wouldn't be much room (if any) for argument from the side bringing in falsehoods...be they longtime BB-topic posters or political rabble-rousers.

Yep, and that toxic-as-F*CK mindset is fully being embraced, coddled, and humped like a dog in heat humping a leg by the current administration.

The amount of kids who are being raised to "look up to" Trump as anyone remotely worthy of admiration is sickening. The US is gonna raise a generation of gaslighting bullies and narcissists who have been told this behavior is not only acceptable, it's to be PRAISED.

The fact that Trump and Pence can't even muster a tiny "I can sort of see where folks of color are coming from about certain elements of systemic racism, but here's where I differ with them..." - the fact that they can't even remotely acknowledge a SMIDGEN of empathy to show that they are at least TRYING to care one iota about ANYBODY but themselves is so sick and depraved, I cannot even fathom it, nor can I fathom the people who think that's just dandy. You know, like Mike.

And Mike plays big time into this "only care about themselves" behavior this too. He ALWAYS has. The sad sack that he is doesn't bother to talk to Brian or Al about playing such a polarizing show... then the same day it hits the news that Mike is playing, Brian and Al PUBLICLY state they very much oppose the show.... so Mike is on RECORD in 2020 doing stuff behind the backs of other members - just because he can - and not having the decency to even have them be part of the conversation about how the band name is being abused/whored out - this cannot be argued - so there's no question that he's doing stuff on a huge level just caring about himself and nobody else...

But the mindblowing thing is what happens next... THEN, in the immediate aftermath (granted from an interview apparently conducted just before the Trump news broke) that f*ckstick Mike has the unmitigated chutzpah in the interview yesterday to claim that Brian won't be "let out to play", with no understanding about how their worldviews could differ in such a massive way (not just about politics) that Brian is avoiding Mike out of Brian's own wishes. I guess Melinda is speaking for both Brian AND Al about Trump. She's pulling all those strings too in Mike's eyes, even Al's strings.

I mean, Mike is so very sick. Mike is such an emotionally abusive, thoughtless individual, a true sick f*ck. Just like Trump.

There unfortunately seems to be virtually no way (other than them getting Covid and getting very sick themselves, or having that happen - or worse - to close people they know) for these brainwashed Trumpers to get the point about Covid. Or for Mike to get the point about the dangers of playing a big show in the middle of a pandemic, for that matter, or supporting such a sick f*ck candidate who downplays Covid.

For people like Mike, and for Covid downplayers/deniers, always just has to be a bad thing that directly happens to them, where their entire little universe is shattered, before they'll grasp it.

It's literally a brainwashed cult that cannot be reasoned with. I very much appreciate that you (and others) are trying to go about in a more understanding manner than I am capable of at this point. You're a saint for doing that. My patience on the matter has expired because people, including people I personally know, have expired due to this awful disease, and the Narcissist in Chief just keeps making it worse, and so does Mike.

History will judge Mike VERY VERY harshly.

It could very well be the fact that our president attended The Howard Stern Show in 2005 to boast about times he's barged into underaged dressing rooms (https://time.com/4528075/donald-trump-miss-usa-naked/) at his own pageants. A claim further corroborated by multiple women (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jtes/a-fifth-teen-beauty-queen-says-trump-visited-dressing-room) who were not only there but minors at the time. It may also be that he considered child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein a buddy of his, going so far as to describe him as a terrific guy (https://youtu.be/AUDr_c2PalI) who enjoys the company of women on the younger side. It could be that he adamantly defended (https://youtu.be/a9XO1CEXlvI?t=39) Roy Moore, an Alabama politician who ran for senator in 2018, despite the very credible sexual abuse allegations leveled against him (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/us/politics/roy-moore-alabama-senate.html) by multiple women - one having been a minor at the time. You know, it could possibly be that he's admitted to playing down the current pandemic in its early days (https://youtu.be/J-G9EZwrBCY?t=80) which has now resulted in the loss of over 220,000 American lives; after his administration explicitly dismantled the office in the White House (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/us-coronavirus-budget-cuts-trump-underprepared) that was tasked with preparing for exactly this kind of tragedy. But hey, it may just be that he refused to disavow (https://youtu.be/3hybkzCWb_w?t=70) QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory (https://www.bbc.com/news/53498434) that infamously originated on a white supremacist message board. Maybe the way he refused to apologize for advocating for the death of young children (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/19/what-trump-has-said-central-park-five/1501321001/) during the Central Park Five incident, despite them having been fully exonerated in every capacity over a decade ago was a tad bit odd. There's also the somewhat concerning matter of Don boy himself having over 26 sexual abuse allegations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations) thrown at him, including one from his ex-wife and another from a minor. I mean the whole "I'd date my daughter if she wasn't my daughter (https://youtu.be/DP7yf8-Lk80?t=47)" thing was sorta kinda ever so slightly strange my dude, wouldn't you agree?

I think from a completely objective, non-partisan standpoint even an individual with a fairly modest single digit IQ could perhaps piece together a pattern of unethical behavior. And perhaps it wouldn't be too unreasonable for said individual to find the term monster applicable in this instance. I feel I'm straying a bit off topic here however, so I'll add that Mike doing this against the wishes of Brian and Al, while simultaneously holding back the release of the Feel Flows box set has absolutely tarnished whatever faint legacy he had left. Truly, the only modicum of gratitude I can muster for his existence is the magnificent work he did on Wrinkles; as the existential dread that consumed me upon listening to it has coincidentally numbed me to the emotional devastation I'd otherwise feel in this hellworld we currently live in.

I'm waiting for joe_blow to jump in with some whataboutism in 3-2-1...

Even if one can find some bad stuff to say (as there surely is) about Democratic candidates, Trump is an UNMITIGATED SLEAZE and a GIANT PIECE OF DOG CRAP as a human being. Get off the whataboutism train and just friggin ADMIT that's a fact.

Trump defenders cannot resist whataboutism, it's a Pavlovian response, any more than Mike can resist saying WILSONS DID DRUGS. It's almost funny if it weren't so unbelievably pathetic and predictable.

Assuming some of the 'Trumpy people' is referring to some of my earlier comments which attempted to illustrate my thoughts on the politicalized nature of COVID and the exaggeration of implemented precautions.  Can I not have true, honest empathy and sympathy for those that either contracted COVID-19 and fought to overcome the disease or those families which saw their loved ones struggle and ultimately die from the virus?   Just because I have opposing views on the subject doesn't mean I don't have sadness for all the loss and struggles.   The problem is you don't believe that I do.   I said I think concerts are fine and mask wearing is pointless but I also tried to express personal experiences.   I feel that the actions taken to combat COVID-19 are having a larger and possibly more long term detrimental affect.   Its been expressed that I contract COVID, f-off and get banned.   Someone mentioned that people like me think they're above the law.   I actually feel the exact opposite.  I thought I'd be known as the biggest rule follower ever.  If I see signs on private businesses, public areas, etc. requiring the use of a mask, of course I wear one.  I always wear a mask because its expected of me right now.  I don't agree with it and may take political action to see a change, but I follow the rules.   My feelings on masks were from what I learned from published studies.  From what we see, this virus spreads sooo freaking easily.  The droplets expelled can be so minuscule that prior studies on larger molecule viruses had nearly no positive affect of wearing a mask.  Mainstream media even reported that most hospital admissions from COVID were from people already quarantining at home.   I've personally seen no widespread research conducted that the spread of COVID-19 would be greatly different by mask wearing.   I have seen first hand accounts, however, of the detriments including gum disease, increased tooth decal and overall sluggish feeling and hyperventilation from breathing through a mask.   Luckily, the survival rate to COVID-19 appears to be well above 99% using the CDC numbers including all those truly dying from pre-existing or unrelated causes.    When political leaders, like Trump, need to make decisions for the country, both sides need to be considered.   Seems like some people on this board feel the USA is infallible to financial distress and widespread pain/suffering from recessions/depressions.   I know that small business, many industries (including travel) and middle and low wage families were hurt badly during the lockdowns.   Both physically by way of depression, suicide, fear, drug use, alcoholism...social separation...not seeing the doctor when they should have...skipping medical appointments and then...the financial impacts.  Not that financial impacts will lead to widespread hunger initially, but in the long run, harm is realized quickly when business collapse and financial struggles appear.   Its just a lot to consider when your weighing important decisions.    This coupled with the sensitivity to losing freedoms gained only by the millions of lives lost on the battlefield through hard fought wars.   Americans are sacrificing individuals, but both sides need considered.

Pressing the RETURN key on the keyboard every now and then also needs to be considered, Einstein.

Just the one sentence above alone, this would be flagged on Twitter as spreading misleading and potentially harmful information.

Bringing this back to the Beach Boys, anybody who cares to look into such things in the future will indeed judge many decisions of Mike to be unfortunate (to put it politely).

But evidence indicates Mike doesn't care. Go look at his comments about playing Sun City in 1981. Much like the people he supports (and the people who support him), Mike rarely if ever admits he's wrong about anything of consequence. Remember those interviews where he's asked about HIS regrets about himself, and he says his regret is the Wilsons' drug abuse?

Not that you're wrong, but given Twitter's recent censorship incident, they're about last on my list for trustworthy fact-checking. That being said, there are plenty of easily found studies (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083) that prove that mask wearing does in fact help reduce the amount of COVID-19 transmission (https://health.clevelandclinic.org/new-study-highlights-new-evidence-that-masks-prevent-coronavirus-spread/) (and here is another study (https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa644/5848814)). Nathan, if you have evidence that refutes these studies, I do implore you to cite it (much like SHS-10 cited above - it really helps prove your point when you post actual evidence to back your claims).


It's utterly ridiculous that he is constantly going on about "harmony" and his solo album from a couple years back is titled "Unleash the Love" - a bad pun that is laughable when you take a glance at his actions and statements over the past couple decades. Between his Trump related concerts, his continued harping on about Brian being controlled, and the continued in-limbo status of Feel Flows, I am very disheartened by this whole year.

Oh?  You can't reason, appeal or bargain with animals.  What do you do if you have a cat that enjoys periodically crapping in the corner of your bedroom?  Let it happen?  What do you do if your dog periodically has a bad habit of attacking smaller dogs when you take it to the park?  You shout at it as aggressively as you can, because that is the COOL way to handle it.  NOT COOL would be to physically harm it with force or psychologically harm it with shock collars or invisible fences.  

Likewise, people like this poster in question who hold dangerous viewpoints and clearly can not be bargained with about a topic anymore, will not consider reasonable arguments to the contrary anymore, and have never been open to appeals must be shouted down, over and over again, by as many members of society as possible.  To do anything further would be NOT COOL.

 Again IMO it’s totally appropriate to tell someone to F OFF when they are out of line and personally offensive. I’m all for Discussing differing points of view in a calm and civilized manner, yet I’m sure we can all think of things that cross that line and are not worthy of discussion. If someone comes up to you on the street and grabs your A$$, are you gonna have a calm convo w/ them about how sexual assault is inappropriate, and you disagree with their position that it’s okay to grab a stranger? Or are you gonna say F OFF?!?

Cases in point - in my opinion- one poster says that the “protests” are “racist”, which is a familiar right wing talking point for those who are opposed to equality because they think white supremacy doesn’t exist. Which is personally offensive to me in a way that I’m over arguing with anyone about. Another poster and the F-ing President refers to cities such as where I live and love, as “decrepit”, etc.

People don’t like Trump because he is failed and dangerous, as a leader. Regardless of politics. His politics are certainly not conservative anyway IMO.

This is extremely unfortunate what is aloud to go on here. So disheartening

You are backpedaling from your second post in this thread, where you say, and I quote, "I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'."  

See, shouting down unreasonable statements actually works.
It's the same mentality as Nathan shows above when he discusses wearing masks in public because of established societal ground rules, even though he has already ARGUED that mask wearing is HARMFUL TO YOUR OWN HEALTH.  He is doing so because he knows that if he were to completely avoid these sooooo harmful to your health masks, wide swaths of society would avoid him or verbally check him for his chosen behavior.

Again, I will go back to the Daryl Davis example. The man didn't believe that every person with a white-nationalist viewpoint was beyond the point of redemption. And he proved with love and civility that people can be swayed to see the error in their ways. There is this cancerous idea in this day-and-age that no one can be swayed by rational discourse. We have been trained to automatically resort to name-calling, or ill-will wished upon someone. If we really think that shouting at someone like they're an animal pissing on a carpet is going to help move our society to a better place, we have completely lost touch with any sort of civility - civility that is needed for the good of society. Again I say, be the light in the darkness you see.

There is so much instant vitriol in society these days that it's no wonder people are so staunchly firm in their beliefs. Divisiveness feeds off this false idea that people with different viewpoints can't talk to one another in a civil manner.

Imagine if Snopes/CDC/etc, instead of citing and fact-checking claims regarding COVID, just merely shouted "F**k you!" or "I hope you get COVID!" to those who shared their beliefs that COVID-19 is a hoax, how useful would that be to society? We have that same responsibility.


I guess I'm now confused by your definition of shouting at an animal. I was more under the impression that shouting at an animal is actually just that: shouting (which in internet/forum terms could possibly likened to having an exclamation mark or all caps with the words "What the hell are you doing!?" written). Because when my cat pisses on the carpeting I don't calmly walk over and explain why what the animal is doing is wrong (which is basically how you just responded to Nathan - which you then cited as an example of shouting - unless I am missing something).

I thought “politics” was a taboo subject. 

Blame it on Mike. He's the one who roped the brand in with trying to elect the most polarizing candidate in the history of this country, and prostituting the brand name to do it against the wishes of multiple members.

It's impossible to discuss that event and simply put blinders on like a horse and not discuss the reasons why people are so upset about him playing that event. It may be a little bit off topic here and there but it definitely regularly comes back to Mike and the band and the tragedy of all this is that Mike, the band, and Trump are now all linked together in the eyes of many people, and nobody should want that, even Trump supporters if they can be objective should realize that's a very dumb thing to have happen.

So this is all unfortunately tangentially related to the band/brand and why so many fans are so disgusted right now, and why Mike's name trending on Twitter. Celebs who are 79 years old usually trend on Twitter for reasons involving caskets, so for Mike to trend at all he must've done something that caused huge shock waves - and not just on this board. If you want topic suppression, Mike's social media pages are perfect for that. Everything is happy and dandy and all dissenters have been taken to the alley and disposed of.

He got shouted at, internetically speaking.  Not reasoned with nor explained to.  He started out by saying "I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'."  Among other stuff.  People here barked at him to eff off and other such things.  He complained about these responses and ended up reshuffling what he was saying - which is what he should have done. 

You can't reason with a baby either, but would you "shout as aggressively as you can" at one?  You can definitely bargain with animals (it's called positive reinforcement; you're getting them to behave how you want in exchange for food, praise and playing).  And while you can't reason with them, you have to use reason yourself to solve problem behaviors.  You asked what I would do if my cat crapped in my bedroom?  I would a) check it's litter box was clean 2) check that the cat wasn't sick 3) consider if the cat was in some other kind of distress.  If my dog kept attacking smaller dogs at the park?  While I would shout in order to stop an actual attack in the moment, just as important would be to figure out WHY the dog was doing that, so I would be working with a dog trainer (spoiler:  it's usually fear or illness).  

Shouting at a dog "as aggressively as you can" is extremely damaging to the dog and will not result in good behavior, unless you consider that being scared shitless qualifies as good behavior.  These are called aversive training methods and you will not find any reputable trainer who uses them.  Yelling and other aversive methods are documented to traumatize dogs:  https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/823427v1

I volunteer at a shelter that takes in a significant number of dogs that have been abused.  Some is physical but just as much is psychological.  Physical abuse is terrible but so is terrorizing your pet in other ways.  A previous dog of mine would go to the basement and hide if my husband and I raised our voices at each other.  I could go on but I won't.  Please, please, please don't scream at your pets.      

Edited to add that I completely agree with you about physical abuse and things like shock collars; my point is that yelling is another form of psychological harm. 

marcella27: A baby?  Really?  Babies don't engage in behavior that attempts to harm others.  Of course not.
About the rest of your post- sure, you're right, when you tangentically take this into caring for animals over the course of their lives - of course you need to identify problem behaviors and solve them without aggression. 
Your dog thinks like it is in a pack that you lead.  In the moment, when it is harming another living being, you attempt to overrule it with your voice, it can be aggressive and intimidating, and it is not psychological terror. 
This is getting pretty far off topic. 

Rab is definitely on to something. Speaking generally for a moment, I think we all need to try to be more forgiving and charitable in our initial judgement of other people's intentions.

That doesn't mean that I didn't for example find the post about the protests being racist deeply troubling (that said, though this is probably not the place for it, there is a legitimate and nuanced discussion to be had about *some* people's genuine fears, justified or not, that grew out of those protests...such a discussion may or may not soften such reactionary points of view, but one thing for sure is that the approach of the last few years sure isn't working. This discussion is starting to remind me of one I had on another forum about sports players taking 'The Knee', if anyone wants to waste their time, it is an interesting presentation of different viewpoints, which remained largely civil considering this is the internet http://www.onlybarnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15256).

Like I said, if my dog was harming another living being, I would do what I needed to do in that moment to do to stop it, and that would most likely involve shouting.  But that's an extreme example.  My point was that shouting as a form of "training" is counterproductive and can be very damaging.  And yes we are wildly off-topic, but you'd be surprised at what some people think is acceptable treatment of pets, and I feel pretty strongly about it based on what I've seen and experienced.  

The irony in all this talking about dogs and what constitutes animal abuse - which I'm sure people reading the thread are thinking is off topic with regards to The BBs, and I'm practically waiting for someone to angrily post about how dare we discuss this on a Beach Boys forum - is that it doesn't take much to get the convo back on topic of The Beach Boys intertwined with Trump adjacent stuff, one only needs to think back to February of this year and the actions of good ol' ethical, good, decent person Mike E. Love.

Just take advice from Mike, and the decent people he associates with and shills for, and the shows he plays under the Beach Boys name, and go shoot some animals for kicks, shits, and giggles... and then maybe the right course of action on how to treat misbehaving animals (you know, when animals do naughty things like actually living and breathing) will become apparent.

 

I will never forgive Mike for that.  I'm not even talking about the ethics of hunting wildlife, but rather the off-the-charts hypocrisy of Mike peace-love-and-protect-the-environment Love playing for a trophy hunting organization.  I vowed then I'd never go see him again and it pains me that any BB purchases I make benefit him.  At this point, I feel nothing but anxiety at the prospect of a 60 anniversary tour because my feelings towards Mike are so negative.   

Can we also talk about Bruce for a second?  He gets away practically scot-free with all this crap.  I know Mike calls the shots, but what, is Bruce suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?  No, he's a wealthy, grown man with free will, he doesn't have to keep touring and doing these highly questionable shows.  He gets  a tiny fraction of the criticism that Mike gets, despite going along with EVERY one of Mike's terrible, polarizing and hurtful actions.  I understand that his own political views are clearly similar to Mike's, but surely he can see the problems that these actions cause for Brian, Al, etc...We talk about Mike being a narcissist (which he is) but Bruce isn't much better. 

I too was thinking about Bruce and this very subject earlier today, and yep you're totally right. Mike gets way more heat since he's in charge of the fake BBs "ship" so to speak, and also because he repeatedly throws gasoline on the fire by talking about Brian in an insultingly infantilizing manner "if Brian can come out and play" as recently as this week, and plus because it's especially more gross and sinister seeing as he's Brian's flesh and blood (which he reminds the world of endlessly, just like his Beach Boys omnipresent hat, because his ego can't take it if he isn't CERTAIN that everyone in his presence knows who he is and who he's related to AT ALL TIMES).

But that said, Bruce is most definitely a highly-privileged, highly out-of-touch, unethical piece of crap himself for doing these utterly reprehensible shows. Although a very talented piece of crap, when he wants to be. I agree it's just as unforgivable that Bruce goes along with this. Bruce just clearly really loves money, and has zero problem turning a blind eye to the realities of this stuff. Truly as out of touch as one can get. Raised by very wealthy parents, I picture his childhood something like Richie Rich, but who knows how that unethical weirdo is wired. One almost would wonder if Mike has dirt on Bruce to keep getting the endless smooth sailing on everything, who knows. I mean, Mike's dreamboat Trump has dirt on everyone, these circles of really repugnant, money-and-power-is-EVERYTHING rich people are gross as f*ck.

The way that Rocky mysteriously changed his tune (the optics come across as almost mafia-esque) really makes you wonder what Mike is capable of behind the scenes to keep the charade going on all sorts of levels, and shut up dissenters like a ham-fisted third world dictator. On the other hand, maybe it's as simple and innocuous as giant wads of money that Mike keeps throwing at unscrupulous people like Bruce and Rocky who will literally do anything including selling their souls (in in Rocky's case, his body  - I recall reading he actually was, for real, a male hooker/escort in the not too distant past) for a buck.  But it's really, REALLY funny how Rocky and that hack co-author expect anyone to believe that Mike didn't "get to Rocky" in one way or another. Genuinely laugh out loud amusing for them to think people are stupid enough to think otherwise, after what Rocky posted here.

But I do (and always have) found it very interesting and suspect that post 1998, Bruce seemed to REALLY amp up his praising of Mike in interviews. It felt like there was some PR conversation behind the scenes as some sort of orchestrated move to help Mike "build cred" by having the one and only bandmate willing to build up Mike's contributions be very vocal about it repeatedly, in interview after interview. It felt very staged, as staged as Brian smiling at the camera in highly produced concert footage. Bruce really kisses Mike's ass, and their relationship is a mystery because from most accounts it would seem they don't socialize together at all. Maybe I-ONLY-CARE-ABOUT-MONEY Bruce thinks that the more he pumps up Mike, the more money Mike's shows will generate, and then Bruce will profit more. I just don't see Bruce repeatedly doing that ass-kissing purely out of the goodness of his heart.

These ultra wealthy gross guys, devoid of ethics, operate on barter, I don't think they do things out of being good people, because I don't believe them to be good people; I remain convinced that Mike is angling to get something from Donald Trump, seeing how Trump throws around Presidential Medals of Honor to unworthy hack racist "celebrity" morons like Rush Limbaugh like it ain't no thing. Mike knows if he sticks like glue to Trump for long enough with unwavering support that SS Trump demands, and if Trump (heaven forbid) should win reelection, that he'll eventually get some sort of return on his asskissing investment. No doubt that this has crossed his mind.

MOST ESPECIALLY Mike knows he'd get something from Trump if Trump wins re-election, considering Mike played a big ass fundraiser to help Trump get re-elected. That's next level. What other celebrity, especially of Mike's advanced age, OTHER than Mike, has been as consistent a champion of Trump in a public way? Sure you have guys like Jon Voight, but Mike knows that Mike is the underdog of underdogs, that he himself is "undervalued" and hasn't gotten enough praise to the degree that Mike wants on a big public level.  

PLUS Mike's constant "AMERICA'S BAND" promo makes him a prime candidate for some sort of Trump prize, moreso than just about anyone else from the idiot pro-Trump celebrity scene, since it aligns so perfectly with the whole MAGA nonsense, and Mike knows it. The fact that Mike is ancient only makes him more of a prime candidate, and Mike knows that too.

Just like the Oscars. The Oscars of sh*t. Mike's the long-frustrated "artist" who's never won an Ego Oscar, and dammit, now is his time, especially with his longtime buddy Trump (longer-time friends than just about any other celebrity who is still consistently shilling for Trump) being the sole person in charge of divvying out the Ego Oscars. Trump could easily make that happen for Mike, if for no other reason than as a personal favor. Because that's how Trump works.  Y'all know this is actually a logical scenario (despite how ridiculous it sounds), this is just how things are in bizarro Trumpland. Search your souls, you know this to be true. It's not offbase.

Mike wants something he can rub in Brian's face. In his mind, his ego will have reached a new platitude if he gets such an award from Trump, and the dangling carrot of that prize I feel certain is at least partly incentivizing Mike's endless summer of swallowing orange loads from the hack president.

The hatred for Mike has gotten pretty extreme on here.

I understand on twitter or yahoo when his name is trending, or a daily mail article or some hipster website where the Beach Boys were only Brian Wilson but we all know what Mike contributed, we all know that he's given us more than enough.. respect should be shown.

I respect Mike as having once been a good lyricist and singer who made an important contribution to the group at a certain point in time. I don't buy into the idea that I must therefore respect him for the person he is today. Respect is earned, and Mike squanders any good faith relationship with the fans when he insists on acting the way he does. He has no regard for the band's reputation. He actively slanders the Wilsons (especially Dennis) for his own gain. He wrote environmentalist/conservationist lyrics in the 70's when it was of commercial benefit - now he aligns himself with the opposite side as suits his interests. When his buddy Trump Jr. made unpleasant remarks about Brian, with broader distasteful connotations about mental illness in general, Mike said nothing in support of his cousin. These actions are not worthy of respect, in my view.

Chuck Berry made a staggering contribution to western popular music, and I respect his body of work. Do I have to respect him as an individual? Of course not - he was a sex offender.

100% agreed , Tom. I have (and will continue to do so) support his artistic contributions to the band over the years. I cannot and will not support his actions. I can easily separate the two.

Agree completely.

There is a section of fans who hate Mike so much that they are not able to appreciate what he brought to the band and feel the need to diminish those contributions. That is frankly ridiculous. He'll get some respect although it's grudging respect because I detest the person that he is now.

I deeply hate what Mike does and the shell of a person that he has become, and I think he acts like an utter piece of garbage, but there's no way that his solid contributions to the early years can be denied. Nor should they be.

It's because I hold the work he did and the work the whole band did to such a high regard that I am so incredibly distressed by watching the reputation of the brand unravel by association with a racist Nazi-esque pig, having the band perform at an event held at the home of a white supremacist associate, and by doing things like trying to delete music by his cousin from the FF box because he is a pathetic, narcissistic, jealous little man.

I'm not going to sugarcoat those words simply because the guy wrote some solid lyrics in the early days and added some solid bass vocals. Nope. Nobody should. His actions should not be "excused". The argument that "the reputation is set in stone" is a crock. This Trump garbage will be a giant pockmark on their legacy to many. For all times. If heaven forbid Trump gets reelected, Mike would additionally have the distinction of being somebody who could be considered partly responsible for helping that reelection happen, so it could get even worse. This is how fragile the thin ice is that he walks on.

He absolutely does indefensible and abhorrent things, yet he also absolutely did some solid work in the early days. Those are not mutually exclusive, and there's no reason to imply such, or try to put those words in anybody's mouth.

Hipster sites will rag on Mike and laugh at him, and it will be the end without any further discussion, and they won't talk about this subject with the nuance that it deserves. You will find that nuance here. But screw censorship or ass-kissing.

But you didn’t!

I’ve seen no response, so I’ll ask again.  I thought “politics” was a taboo subject here?

It definitely is taboo (in fact, I argued heavily against the Trump related sandbox threads that were polluting this forum in 2016). But the simple fact is that politics are a huge reason why this concert is controversial....so it is absolutely on-topic to talk about the reasons why aligning the band with a certain person in politics could be bad optics for the band (and just uncouth to the other band-members whose names are directly associated with The Beach Boys name who want nothing to do with this concert).

It's like the trophy hunting thread - I doubt the topic of trophy hunting every came up on this forum until this past February, but we still delved into the moral/ethical discussions of why or why not trophy hunting should exist...Which was somewhat crucial to the main point of whether or not Mike Love should be playing that gig. I actually learned a lot about trophy hunting during those discussions...and it helped mold my opinion about the main topic.

Thankfully, this forum usually stays away from anything Trump and politics in general (and it very much should stay this way - many of us don't like it when Mike Love mixes politics with the music, the same should go for this forum). The election is two weeks away, and after that this incident will be filed away into the endlessly-growing corporate-sized filing cabinet filled-to-the-brim with Mike Love f***-ups.

Agreed with all of this, and thanks for that link. I can't read all of it at the moment, but I read through the first two pages and it's nice to see a mostly civil discussion about such a controversial issue. Even if I agree or disagree with some points, when people calmly elaborate on why they believe what they believe it makes it so much easier to see their point of view - which makes it easier to find common ground.

Just coming from an outside perspective, and even putting aside political inclinations (like, I would regard Trump as by far the most incompetent and damaging American President since Andrew Johnson. But even if I regarded Trump in any positive light, given how deeply divisive he has been as a whole, it would have been best to steer clear entirely).... it just comes off as deeply irresponsible to agree to do any live gig - be it a political fundraiser or otherwise. Particularly in a country that has been hit harder than any other by the COVID pandemic. Definitely a wise move on Brian and Al's part to immediately distance themselves from Mike's decision to do the concert. Which surely would have to be yet another in a long series of decisions by Mike that will arguably damage the Beach Boys' credibility, particularly among younger generations.

Also I haven't come across any comments by Donald Trump Jr. to do with Brian, but if he actually went ahead and insulted him as some users have suggested.... well, that kind of says it all about the Trump family, doesn't it?

For God's sake, Marty, the gloves come off "politics" here when a member of the band brings them out into the open like a bleeding wound.

Even "Mr. Suppressive Personality" over at "the nearest faraway place" is hanging his head in shame at Mike's latest antics.

There are times when the "taboo" on such a topic cannot help but be suspended, and this is clearly one of them. If you find that unacceptable, just recuse yourself from the thread.

And kindly note that this is the first and only time that your friendly "FREE FEEL FLOWS!" rabble rouser is posting in this thread.

Why does he have to?  Why must we be selective in what viewpoints are acceptable?  You may not like or agree with what Nathan is saying but he has hardly violated any rules on this message forum and appears to be far more calm and civil in his delivery compared to at least some of his detractors here.  If you disagree with him, respectfully offer some healthy counterpoint. People are so hopelessly and narcissistically entitled to their own views these days that we have lost the ability to try and understand one another and have an exchange of ideas.  Instead, people would rather try to discredit, shout down, shame and vilify anyone who dares threaten our worldview.  This is 100% wrong and highly problematic.  It is ok to disagree with each other folks, even during crazy times like these.  

Keeping this on track though with Mike Love: he is who he is and has always been a polarizing figure in the band.  I certainly haven't liked or agreed with all the things he has done over the years but I accept that this is just the way he is and don't get bent out of shape over everything he does (although I certainly would be weary of him being responsible for road blocking the Feel Flows release if that is indeed the case).  He is not going to change especially at this point in his life.  That's why I roll my eyes at folks endlessly dooming and glooming that he is killing the band's legacy by doing concerts for Trump as well as that trophy hunting group earlier this year.  The band has endured constantly epic ups and downs over the years yet no one is disputing their place in music history.  Hell, folks still love Michael Jackson's music despite the brutally ugly accusations thrown at him.   People are so protective of the band's legacy despite the fact that it is ultimately going to be okay.  

Yes, the music of Michael Jackson and Phil Spector has "weathered the storm" so to speak, but you can't tell me that their music by these artists isn't being understandably diminished due to all of the garbage they are associated with.

If Phil Spector wasn't such a narcissistic creep as a human being (i'm talking about even before the murder), there would probably be evenings at the Hollywood Bowl dedicated to celebrating his music, etc. etc., under the banner "celebrating the artistry and genius of Phil Spector", but that will never happen because of what he is associated with (again, even pre murder, lest anyone try to fake outrage at the comparing of Mike to Phil Spector as narcissist creeps).

You have to be a truly massive, massive level of a piece of crap as a person to fall as far as Phil Spector fell (once again, I'm talking about pre-murder, this was the case even back then). And the same goes for Mike. It's no accident that Mike is loathed as much as he is, but he just can't see why and has to blame people for thinking Brian is some sort of a saint. He has not one ounce of logic in his pathetic theory. Nobody woke up one day and randomly decided that they wanted to dislike Mike, it's nothing that people just decided they wanted to do, it just simply happens naturally because Mike acts like a piece of horse excrement.

The Phil Spector and Michael Jackson brands have been tainted for a very long time even if some people are still willing to listen to the music largely due to the fact that they don't want to screw over people like Ronnie Spector who would be unnecessarily screwed over if people were to simply boycott all Phil Spector music.  

Everybody must have a line that they draw where they say "enough is enough". If Mike were to straight up say "I support white supremacy and there is no systemic racism, and the KKK have many good people" as BBs stage banter, would that be enough for some people? Or would it take him starting to wear a swastika on his hat over the Beach Boys logo? Yes these are extreme examples but the point is at some point he would have gone too far even for the most understanding of fans (actually perhaps some of the uber Mike-defending nutjobs would be totally fine with that as well), but in my eyes he's already gone way too far and truly needs to be stopped. He should be stripped of the license.

Like I said earlier, heaven forbid Trump should win reelection. Then Mike would not just be known for "associating" with Trump or "supporting" him, but he would be considered somebody who *successfully helped* trump win a second term, and the vitriol he'd receive for that specific thing would be off the charts, far more than even now. It could still get much, much worse.

Mike could become the John Stamos to Donald Trump. An idiot who doesn't belong in those circles, stuck like glue to the bigger fish, and always popping up to show his support. If Trump were to win a second term and feel indebted to Mike a little bit, Mike will probably start associating with Trump even more than he is now. I truly think we've only scratched the surface of how repulsively intertwined Mike and Trump and the Beach Boys brand name could become, depending on the results of the election. I want to puke having just typed that last sentence, but I don't think it's at all offbase of a fear.

Mike is truly an unhinged lunatic who is so deeply irresponsible with the brand name and deeply irresponsible to the legacy, and he should be ashamed for what he has done, but he never will be. His hypocritical worldview is despicable.

Warning, CD. An “interested party” is going to add you to the “list” with OSD and I.... ;)

I'll give you that both Spector and Jackson's legacies took a hit over their respective controversies but let's be perfectly objective here: murder and child molestation are far, far more serious charges than anything Mike Love has done.  You may find it unethical for him to perform shows for a sitting President you despise or an organization that is understandably frowned upon and you have every right to feel that way.  But Love is not committing any heinous crimes in doing so.  Regardless to all the stupid things Love has said and done over the years, Rolling Stone still cites Pet Sounds as the number 2 album of all time (compare that to Sgt. Pepper's dramatic drop in popularity).  The band's less commercially successful material from the late 60's throughout the 70's has only increased in popularity and respect over the years.  Again, the legacy is doing just fine.   And no matter how strongly you feel about Trump, not everyone sees it your way and there is certainly more than one reasonable viewpoint out there.  I don't dispute that both Love and Trump have certainly earned a lot of criticisms thrown at that them but because we have become so emotionally inebriated in our society, we've lost the ability to look at anything rationally or objectively.  This has to change if you want any real progress or unity to be achieved.  

As I mentioned repeatedly in my post, although you may have chosen to overlook it, I am referring to Phil Spector's reputation and fall from grace even BEFORE the murders. So let's talk about Phil Spector circa 2001. He was not a murderer, he was just a massive narcissistic creep whose behavior over YEARS caused the industry to largely shun him, or at minimum he was omitted from any number of accolades such as Philharmonic shows in his honor, that he surely would have received had he not been such a massive dick. The ways in which Phil (again, even pre-murders) and Mike have squandered their own legacies are incalculable.

Yes it's still a bit of an apples and oranges situation as the reasons for Phil's pre-murder reputation and Mike's reputation are still different, but at the end of the day it's endless decades of massively narcissistic and terrible behavior, bad enough for the industry to take notice and say "ya know, despite how much this person may have contributed to music, we're gonna go ahead and not pat them on the head simply because they are such pieces of crap". I don't know how many more feathers Mike might have had in his cap had he acted like a decent person akin to Carl Wilson, but I'm sure he would be MUCH MUCH more of a respected figure, even if not respected anywhere near the level of the Wilson brothers who he remains so jealous of.

Love may not personally be committing any heinous crimes in a literal sense (I suppose neither was Salieri), but Mike's committing crimes against music history by messing with FF much in the way he successfully contributed to derailing SMiLE, crimes against the band's legacy as a whole, and also he's prostituting the band to support a criminally unethical orange piece of garbage, and that is all truly inexcusable. I honestly don't know how anyone can excuse that behavior or think it won't ding the legacy. I would not be surprised at all if Mike would try to quietly stop Dennis Wilson from being inducted to the rock hall of fame as a solo artist (there is a movement for that) purely out of jealousy.

Mike's already tainted the song Pacific Ocean Blue that he cowrote by proving how phony his pro-environmental lyrics are, and that itself is yet another level of tragedy. Almost as if he's trying pathologically to be as hated as Brian is loved. It's just so very sick.


With regards to this, we're going to see a large amount of articles (we're already seeing it) from major publications that will basically say in so many words that yes, the band was great, the material was great, but gee ain't it a shame what an unbelievable tool Mike is?  It's already becoming a cemented idea that the band was great in spite of Mike (yet I, like most objective historians, know that part of what made the band great, at times, was indeed Mike's contributions), but for sure he will be talked about in a negative way that almost cannot be ignored because the negative actions are so far, wide and longterm.

The Trump association is almost like the crowning achievement of terrible behavior that Mike has been building up inside of him for oh I don't know how long. Mike has climbed the Mount Everest of narcissistic, disgusting behavior, and it seems he may have finally reached the summit. But truly, who knows how much MORE damage Mike still has in him. I hate to say it, but I feel he's just getting started.

I'm not deliberately overlooking anything you've stated; I'm simply not looking at this solely from an emotional standpoint.  It's pretty well-known of Spector's poor reputation as a person (pre-murder charges) and maybe that screwed him out of winning an award or a tribute concert.  But is anyone disputing his overall contributions to popular music or music production?  No.  While I certainly don't condone anyone committing any true atrocities, I guess I just don't get too hung up over difficult personalities or egomaniacs as you can throw a rock and guarantee to hit someone like this in the entertainment industry.

And while I'll give you that Love certainly has steered the band in dodgy directions at time with some unquestionable misfires, overall he hasn't prevented the band from still being casted in a positive light, warts and all.  Perhaps if he had conducted himself differently over the years the band might have had an even stronger legacy, but I'm not going to play the coulda/woulda/shoulda game here.  The fact remains that the band is still well received and continues to have a very passionate, very protective fan base.  The good outweighs the bad.   

This isn't directed particularly at any one person, but I think very few people here (or any group of BB fans) are particularly qualified to make this assertion.

Not only do we all have varying definitions of what the "legacy" is, but even if we all decide on one definition, there aren't a ton of people who are both hardcore BB fans who are also familiar enough with the broader history of music and pop culture such that they can really gauge how the "legacy" is doing.

I think a lot of BB fans live in a pretty insular bubble. It's like "I listen to the music, people still go to shows, they still write articles about Pet Sounds; their legacy is fine." But a lot of things have eroded over the years. The Beach Boys have always had little to no presence on classic rock radio, and now very little even on oldies, where the BB playlist is down to a core short list of songs. And then of course how much is radio even a thing anymore? The BB fanbase still skews older, it has many fans who still haven't figured out how to download music let alone stream it (and/or refuse to do so even if they know how). There a ton of factors like this, outside of the BB fandom bubble, that many if not most BB fans aren't familiar enough with.

A few years ago I read an article about Elvis and how he's kind of being partially erased as time goes by as Elvis fans die off without being replaced. Yes, of course, Elvis will never not be noted as a key figure in the history of music, and the well-known hits will have some sort of life. But that article discussed how much, for instance, the Elvis memorabilia market has died off. That area of fandom isn't the be-all of how to gauge things, but it's an indicator of how the legacy is fading. Not disappearing completely, but fading.

The Beach Boys have NEVER properly embraced doing things to truly expand their legacy. Brian and his camp starting back in the mid-late 90s tapped into this, but the Beach Boys as a group never have. You see Mike Love for instance actively resisting it. In 2012, Mike did truly go from Frankie Valli to Mick Jagger as Howie said back then. The band did have the *insane fortune* of turning an AARP brand into an arena act. And Mike walked. He'd rather be Frankie Valli or Lou Christie and be in charge of the show playing gigs at bowling allies than be an A-lister and be playing Madison Square Garden, getting more features in Rolling Stone, playing the Grammys with famous modern acts, etc. So in the moment, Mike gets what he wants. But not embracing things like pushing the early 70s material hard to truly redefine the band's story, that and many other things means their legacy is, at best, not where it could be.

I just want to ask a hypothetical question here: what would it take (in your eyes) for someone like Mike to truly tarnish the reputation of this band? Would it take him murdering someone? Wearing a Nazi uniform onstage? Or could there be anything less than these extreme examples which could (in your eyes) still do damage? I would tend to think that every fan would draw the line *somewhere*, where do you draw it?

With Mike, it's more like slow, but continual diminishment of the band's reputation by a thousand cuts. The band will never be mentioned in any manner on social media, by major publications, etc. from now until the end of time, without readers (and by osmosis, writers too) saying to themselves or outloud in comments or the article itself, "yeah the music's great, but that one guy just had to constantly sh*t in the soup". EVERY SINGLE TIME the band is mentioned, there will be an element of that. It'll either be blatantly said, or bubbling under the surface. Mike's always going to be the "but" in the BBs equation. It took a hell of a lot of Mike's bad actions - which continue worsening to this day - for it get to this very unfortunate point.

All of your points are certainly noted but there are several things we should take into account here.  For starters, this band is nearly 60 years old.  They are simply not going to be looked at by younger folks the same way currently popular acts are as things have changed dramatically in the music scene.  That said, their music is still talked about, fans of all ages still go see them perform, and overall the "good stuff" the band has put out has remained generally in a positive light.  To put things in perspective, the music of classical artists such as Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and countless other composers are still listened to, studied and performed centuries after this music was created.  I don't think we have any reason to believe that the Beach Boys, as well as many of their contemporaries, are in critical danger of fading completely into oblivion in the next generation or two.  Regarding radio, that format has changed considerably over the years as there has been a rise in the move to streaming music services and satellite radio.  The band's music has been represented fairly well in both of these newer formats.  There will always be detractors of the group that callously dismisses them as a bubblegum act; that is to be expected and no matter how well received any artist can be, there will always be those that don't care for their music.  That said, it is still generally accepted by critics and fans alike over the Beach Boys' contribution to popular music.  

Compare all this with a band like Chicago.  They've been around nearly as long, had at least two decades of commercial successes, have even overtook the Beach Boys in terms of music sales, and have toured every single year and continue to be a solid concert draw.  Yet they have been unmercifully savaged by critics, are rarely credited as being influential and it took several decades after they were eligible to be inducted into the RRHoF.  They've never enjoyed the critical acclaim that the Beach Boys have but continue to have a healthy fan base.  And Chicago is hardly the only group or artist that were popular to have been critically slighted over the years.  Despite the fact that the Beach Boys have definitely put out some truly cringe-worthy material at times, they still enjoy praise and acclaim over their successes.  So yeah, I'm not overtly worried that their reputation is going to nosedive anytime soon.  

In all honesty, who cares?  If the band overall is historically held in a positive light regardless of what Love has said and done, why does it even matter?  When was the last time you heard anyone state "Man, Pet Sounds would be such a good album if Mike wasn't such a dick"?  Let the good outweigh the bad.  And do you really think that Mike Love is the only a-hole in rock history?  You've also got Don Henley, Stephen Stills, David Crosby and countless others who have had questionable reputations as jerks.  Hell, even Chuck Berry was difficult to work with.  Yet they all are still held in a positive light over their contributions to music.  No one is disputing Mike Love's flaws; it's simply a matter of whether you choose to take this personally or not.  




Well yeah, I suppose if Love did any of those things you mentioned it would legitimately hurt the band's image considerably.  But it's highly unrealistic that even he would subject himself to those things.  And personally, I'm not big on "cancel culture" and generally have had to separate the art from the artist on many occasions.  It would take a lot for me to want to distance myself from any artist I enjoy listening to and even then I don't know that I would ever stop enjoying their music completely.  

It's more like "the music would be so much easier to listen to and would be a more purely joyful/untainted listening experience if that guy wasn't such as dick".  And who cares? Lots of people care and are enormously bummed that there's this negative garbage associated with the band. It's always going to be there just lurking in the background. It's like the band has an incurable STD that keeps coming back. While people's ability to tune out the bad stuff and just enjoy the music may vary, it's getting harder all the time. Most especially for any tunes that Mike co-wrote which have any sort of environmentalist angle.

I mean if Mike being a dick truly hinders your enjoyment of Pet Sounds or any of their other music, I might recommend withdrawing completely from all forms of entertainment.  Because again, Love is hardly the only polarizing figure in popular music.  Not to suggest that bad behavior should be tolerated from anyone, but this type of dysfunction is hardly exclusive to the Beach Boys.  Perhaps look at it from this perspective: two things can be true at the same time.  Mike Love can be a toxic, controversial member of the band and Pet Sounds can still be a fantastic, widely acclaimed album.  



You may know something I don't here, but I'm not exactly sure why you view his environmentalist views as phony.  Fun anecdote: back in 2004 I worked backstage as a runner for an amphitheater here in Atlanta.  Mike's Beach Boys was one of the shows I worked and I spent a good chunk of the day driving their tour manager at the time around who proceeded to tell me things about the band I probably shouldn't know about  :lol.  One of the things he did mention is that Mike Love is actually a bit more liberal than he gives off and that the environmental stuff was a big hot topic for him.  Turns out Bruce is more conservative than Love is.  Take that for what you will, but I am not aware of any reason why Love might be deliberately insincere in his views on this.  

Nah, I'm still able to listen to pretty much all BBs music and still enjoy it, but there's still an element of repugnancy that floats in the back of my mind when I hear Mike's voice. I have to Jedi mindtrick myself to just deal with it, and also to realize that his gross qualities evolved and got far worse over time, and I don't think he was quite nearly as despicable a POS back in the 60s, compared to who has has become today.

The truly, full bloom abhorrently gross Mike of today only puts out utter drek these days, which is unlistenable anyway. It's fortunate that the only BBs music that I care to listen to coincides with having been recorded in a time period that Mike (relatively speaking) was not nearly as much of a piece of trash as he would eventually become. So it's a bit easier to disassociate Mega Narcissist Mike of 2020 with the Narcissist-in-training Mike who I'm hearing on 60s records.



This only furthers my theory that Mike is that much more of a phony in so many ways, because his asskissing of Trump is at least partly (if not mostly) linked to trying to angle to get some sort of reward from being buddy-buddy with Trump. Look, Uncle Jesse hung around the Beach Boys for a number of years before he gradually got to not only start playing live with them, but he also got to record with them and sing lead vocal on one of their studio albums. The same theory surely holds true in Mike's mind regarding Trump. Mike's doing a series of maneuvering over a period of time to position himself to get a reward of SOME sort. You can bet on it.

Mike is that much more of a disingenuous sicko for gluing himself to Trump - when Mike probably doesn't even agree with a bunch of Trump's policies - because Mike's in the pro-Trump game for reasons that Mike prioritizes higher than ANYTHING else: Mike's dream of an Ego Oscar award, given to him by Trump, and all the attention Mike thinks he can get from his frothing MAGA fans. All of that stuff means far more to Mike than actually acknowledging any of the Nazi-esque traits that Trump and his ilk espouse.

If Mike's a faux conservative anyway, then he's shown where his priorities are. Same with Trump - Trump is completely faking being into religion, being anti abortion, etc etc, just faking all of this stuff so that the presidency can have the eventual effect of feeding his own ego with more power. It mirrors Mike's faux support of a faux conservative candidate who has been known to trade in barter with quasi celebrity pieces of trash in a way that NO president has ever done.  Trump just works with yes men and grants all sorts of wholly unqualified friends of his to positions of power and rewards because he loves people who don't at ALL talk back to him. And Mike understands that logic completely because it's just how Mike is too... so Mike's playing that game as the little fish in this equation.

These two gross guys (Trump and Love) are in this whole thing solely for themselves, because of their massively swollen egos, and their insatiable need for an IV drip of power.

I'm very sorry to hear that. Please be safe, everyone.

This year has been very crazy and depressing. Every now and then I will get a little burned out on the BB and take a little break, but I've come back to them and started listening more recent; it's very healing music. A lot of it is melancholy, but even those numbers relieve stress and sadness for me.

Music in general is healing, but I've never encountered music as spiritually moving and truly healing as the Beach Boys and Brian's music. The BB music is needed in trying times like this. Sorry again for your loss. I hope we are all able to overcome this soon. I am worried for my friends and loved ones as well.

But that is all wholly subjective and speculation.  You clearly have an agenda against both these guys (not attacking you with that assessment) which explains why you would feel this way.  However it is not impossible to consider that a person could lean politically one way but still harbor views from the opposite side.  Not everyone is a political monolith.  I believe Love has always identified as a Republican, albeit a more liberal one.  If he had no interest in environmentalism it is a bit baffling as to whom he was trying to appease by writing/recording these type of songs at all.  

I never accused Mike of being a political monolith. Nor have I accused him of being some arch conservative (that's probably Bruce territory). I'm sure Mike has mixed views across the political spectrum (which I frankly don't even give two craps about). I simply believe that his priorities are grossly and repulsively out of whack, and that his support of Trump is just one massive example of that.

Sorry, I was asking in earnest, really, just trying to understand. Maybe I should have looked more in to it. I genuinely LOVE the BB, and have lurked over the years, but rarely posted on different accounts. I've just fallen into a BB kick/rabbit-hole again. I meant no offense. I like reading your posts a lot. I like to think of the BB as apolitical.

RE the masks that someone asked about, I think the idea is that the virus is carried via water particles, which are trapped by even surgical masks. I've heard the argument that they don't work because the micron-sized virus can easily fit through the loosely woven non-respirator masks, but it's the water droplets which are caught. They're more of a safety precaution against transmitting the virus between people rather that a barrier against, I think, which is why there's the disclaimer on the boxes. I think the whole thing about inhaling dangerous levels of CO2, micro-molds, and respiratory dangers are overblown compared to any benefit. N95 respirator masks do work and protect you against the virus, though they used to be extremely difficult to get anywhere.

I am very worried about the band staying safe during this time, especially after so many high profile individuals across the world have gotten it, and I'm sure they still do a fair amount of traveling even without touring regularly.

That is a pretty interesting to me. I didn't know Mike was explicitly Republican. Not just the environmentalism but Michael is also a vegetarian who meditates and has an interest in astrology. I'm sure many other atypical things too. For the general public, I would imagine a lot would assume that of not just Mike, but the band as a whole. I don't think the whole image of them as basically hippies (at least in the late 60s and throughout the 70s) is well known among mainstream folk. Maybe they known of Pet Sounds, etc., and the biopic has probably changed things at least for Brian to be seen as that (again) for casual audiences. But outside of the Jack Rieley years, I'm not sure if that aspect of the band as a whole was widely publicized.

There's no great mystery to Mike's politics if you know the history, read the articles/interviews, etc.

Fans have been pointing out for 30 years or more the irony that Mike and Bruce stump for some environmental stuff yet are both self-indicated conservative Republicans, supporting a party and politicians who are very much NOT pro-environment. Bruce has I suppose been more unequivocal about that. I think Mike has tried to hedge a bit over the years, but the events of the last four years indicate he's becoming *more* conservative, not less.

Many pieces on Mike, including that excellent feature Rolling Stone did on him in 2016, point out the seemingly odd dissonance of being a sort of hippy-dippy TM practitioner while also being socially and economically sharkishly conservative in many other areas.

But I've been reading Mike defenders for decades now mention the Surfrider foundation or whatever it is, as if that disproves Mike and Bruce are conservative Republicans. It's just an anomaly. But 500 years into this Beach Boys saga, with everything that's gone down, I have say no, sorry, no brownie points awarded for associating with one foundation and writing a few pro-environmental songs. Those songs are arguably more offensive knowing the people and things the guy writing and singing the song supports.

Did you feel that way when the dems called closing the borders xenophobic? How about when Pelosi said don't worry, come down to the street part y in Chinatown? Or when Deblasio said to come out into the streets and not be afraid. Please let us know.

Trying to own someone's political stances on a Beach Boys forum by playing what about-ism. Seems kinda counterproductive to the purpose of this site; we should be talking about why Adult/Child and Sweet Insanity aren't officially available.

I see what you did there.... ;)

Adult Child and Sweet Insanity... obvious references to Biden and Pelosi...

I have no agenda with this post other than to throw this historical occurrence out there...

In 2006 (pretty sure on the year without looking at photos), I took my wife and family to downtown Harrisburg (on the riverfront) to see a Beach Boys 4th of July concert free with fireworks to celebrate.   Like most of the board members, I've seen the Beach Boys individually and separately on countless occasions, but this was the first time I could drag other relatives along to hear the greatest music.   During that timeframe, our Governor was Ed Rendell (Democrat).  Opinions aside, he was a very liberal Governor.   Gov. Rendell gave a welcoming speech that went on at length how much he loved the Beach Boys music and how he was a longtime close friend of Mike Love.   He also stated that Mike 'squeezed' this extra concert in at little to no charge for the city of Harrisburg as a personal favor to Gov. Rendell and that he appreciated it. 

"Closing the borders" as a concept in and of itself is not xenophobic. Trump's rhetoric however, is not only xenophobic but also blatantly racist - under any definition of the term. He's a failed and dangerous leader. Look at us today vs. the Obama years. As a whole. Come on man. And I'm no fan of Obama (or Biden). But at least Obama was a reasonable leader. Even George W Bush was. We're in lala land at this point.

But seriously you think calling coronavirus "the Chinese virus" is okay? You understand people commonly use the term "Chinese" to refer to Asian-Americans, right? So you'd be okay with the President of the US referring to a spreading disease as "the white person virus" if it originated here? Since we're on a Beach Boys forum, how about letting an Asian-American like Billy Hinsche know your thoughts? How might Carls's half Asian-American sons feel about this?

It's hard to have a civil discussion when you guys are either: 1- insensitive, selfish assholes, and/or 2- idiots.

I can't wait to hear the whataboutism, and pretzel-twisting responses you're gonna get to those by deranged pro-Trumpers.

Or how about when Trump mocked the disabled reporter? (Oh yeah, that was just Trump accidentally moving his arms in a way that was not intended to be a mockery, right?)

But you know, mocking people with challenges is par for the course with the Trumps and with Mike, those guys have no problem mocking Brian, a guy who continues to suffer from various issues but has bravely overcome *so* much in his life... Mike just last week was talking in an incredibly disrespectful way about Brian, as if Brian's a child, in Mike's recent interview talking about Brian "coming out to play"...  or Trump Jr. bragging with glee about having "successfully triggered" Brian Wilson into being outraged about killing animals for fun.

And Mike simply standing by, like the Proud Boys, with no response to that "trigger" comment whatsoever. Mike has zero tact and zero class, and neither do the Trumps. And that just scratches the surface of how awful the Trumps are, and how gross it is for the BBs brand to be associated.

But yeah, I'm sure these wonderful, ethical pro-Trump BBs fans will excuse all of these things, too.

Trump and Mike deserve each other.  Absolute trash.

Re: the Chinese virus.

- Asian media called it the "Wuhan Virus"... Example here (https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/how-lethal-is-the-wuhan-virus/) and here (https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3891301).
- New York Times called it the Chinese Coronavirus (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/15/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-china.html).
- Washington Post called it the Chinese Coronavirus (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-china-latest-updates/2020/01/26/4603266c-3fa8-11ea-afe2-090eb37b60b1_story.html)
- I can list a plethora of more examples of these headlines that dated around January before Trump started calling it the Chinese virus - at which point the media called him racist and then proceeded to not mention "Chinese" in the name subsequently.

My point being that, whether or not it is right or wrong to name a virus (or call a virus) after it's place of origin (such as Zika, Marburg, Lyme, etc), NO ONE on the left is calling the New York Times, CNN, Washington Post racist for mentioning China/Wuhan in their description of the virus. It's these types of double standards that give Trump a bit of leeway with moderate voters. Does Trump keep calling it the Chinese virus because he hates Asians? I doubt it, as 30% of Asian-Americans support him (https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-09-15/biden-trump-aapi-voters) (as of last month) and he needs their votes. It's more likely that since the media called it the "Chinese" virus at the beginning of the pandemic it just further proves a point about double standards whenever someone calls him racist for saying it. Billy Hinsche or Carls's half Asian-American sons may absolutely hate Trump because of his continued mentioning of "Chinese virus", and more power to them if so - however, that 30% of Asian Americans still support the president proves that some Asian-Americans are not offended by Trump naming the country of origin when referring to the virus.

On a side note, he did call it the Kung Flu on one (or more) occasions - I'm not sure how this could be construed, perhaps racist? A really stupid/bad joke? Both?

As for Trump mocking the disabled reporter: this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgaC0leEb68) shows that Trump made the exact same hand/flailing gestures when mocking other people he disagreed with...and the footage is taken from events that took place before the date he supposedly mocked the reporter's disability. If he was mocking the reporter's disability, then absolutely shame on him. But the fact that he made the exact same hand gestures on multiple occasions when referring to people who didn't have that disability makes me question the validity of the claim.

Re: the Proud Boys. Not that you really delved into that subject, but I do want to clear up confusion about that too. As I heard that the Proud Boys were supposedly a white supremacist group (Joe Biden claimed this at the first debate). The Proud Boys leader is a half-Cuban half-black male. The Proud Boys have African American members. That does not at all sound like a white supremacist group to me, or they have an absolutely abysmal screening process. There was actually a Joe Rogan podcast where the founding of the Proud Boys was explained: it was created as a joke to help a jewish intern get laid...again, if they are a white supremacist group they are really doing a poor job. CD, not that you said they were white supremacists, but I have heard this rumor a lot and thought I'd clear it up for anyone who didn't know this.

Is Trump a jackass? Yes! In fact, someone posted a great cited response (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27383.msg666573.html#msg666573) earlier about all the garbage stuff Trump has done. But I just wanted to throw my two cents in about the above topics.

Going to have to disagree with you there, rab. You seem like a fine person and I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place, but Trump is an absolute gutter trash POS. Not just a mere jackass. There's nothing in his narcissistic personality that would tell me it would be out of character for him to mock a disabled person. Nothing whatsoever. I don't think anything is below him. At all.

That said, do I think that sometimes the media spins things a bit far and twists some of the things he did in order to push a narrative? To some degree yes. There are some incidents of things being taken out of context and twisted a bit. But the overwhelming amount of time, it's him acting like an absolute piece of crap without an ounce of tact.

Neither Trump nor Mike Pence could muster even a tiny morsel of empathy or understanding about the idea of racial injustice and systemic racism. They don't necessarily have to agree with every single talking point that the left might say on that, but to 100% literally completely stonewall that, when there is so much evidence to the contrary? And then to have the *unmitigated chutzpah* to compare himself to Abraham Lincoln in terms of being a great president for black citizens?  Well that's literally like Mike Love saying he has 10 times more talent than Brian Wilson. That's the level of ridiculous such a quote is. That's so unbelievably insulting and tactless. It's abhorrent.  Those guys are experts at gaslighting, just like Mike.

Every single day when Trump does something new that is more abhorrent than the next, I have to double check that I'm not reading The Onion.

Again, massive narcissism on a massive scale, gone unchecked. It's so incredibly troubling. You can hear the contempt Trump has in his voice when he annunciates "Chiiiiiiiina virus", it's all about his deflection for trying to distract for his massive shortcomings during Covid. Even if the term was coined and used elsewhere, he still INSISTS on using that term solely for that purpose. To get a bunch of frothing, uneducated MAGA yokels in trailer parks riled up and chanting USA, USA, and getting them embittered at foreign countries. Sounds like a great thing for a US president to be deliberately inciting for the sole reason of pumping up his own ego and to disguise his shortcomings.

And Mike, well not nearly as big of a POS as Trump, is also absolute trash for continually either mocking/belittling Brian or rubbing the "Wilsons did drugs" line endlessly - just look at that lifestyles of the rich and famous clip where he says it, directly followed by talking about how great he is. It's just to puff himself up. It's that same disgusting warped mindset. Both Donald Trump and Mike Love have very sick narcissistic tendencies, and warped senses of right and wrong.

Thanks for the reply, CD. I do understand where you're coming from and I very much agree with you on many points of this discussion. I know my "devils advocate" viewpoints can get tiring when it comes to Beach Boys topics and now politics haha. But I do think that people should be judged based on the absolute truth...and especially when that truth doesn't really need to be manipulated, I don't understand why the media manipulates it constantly because it ends up making them look incompetent in the end.


I think this is where so much of my distrust comes from...and it's been happening most of my life and it's to the point where I don't trust any network/publication. There was a story about Cheney or Rumsfeld leaking the false WMD story to some newspaper in 2003 and they used that unverified published story as a way to convince the PM (Blair at the time?) to help us start the illegal war with Iraq (it was something like that, saw it on Frontline a few years ago). There just seems to be little journalism done anymore - very little verification, anything to get a clickbait headline (and as we saw, it can help lead to an actual war). I saw this most recently when Rittenhouse was accused by several networks of being a white supremacist when the networks had absolutely no facts to back this claim (and still don't). The media loves chaos (because it brings them ratings) and will do almost anything to get clicks/views.

The way I see it, if our leader sows divisiveness by manipulating the facts and making up stories, the media should not do the same thing. We deserve better than that.

When it comes to anything: politics, Beach Boys, anything, the truth is the most important thing. We really don't need to twist the truth in order to convince people that certain humans are awful people - and when the truth is twisted the source from then on becomes completely questionable....and from that point on it is so hard to know what the truth actually is.

Lots of politics in here. Now anyone who is voting for Trump is “deranged”. 

Please don't paint things with completely wide brushes or put words in people's mouths in order to try to prove some sort of point. Not every Trump voter by definition is necessarily "deranged" in my book.

There are lots of people including some very decent people who in my opinion have severely Jedi mindtricked themselves to compartmentalize many things, including certain aspects of Trump's personality that are so completely abhorrent, reprehensible, and unquestionably unacceptable for the leader of the free world... while other trump voters are in my estimation outright deranged, and truly as vicious, frothing, vile, racist, and hateful as he is.

And then there is a subset of people who really just care about themselves and what Trump can do for them personally, either to their bank account or to their ego. I think Mike falls squarely in that category.

Trump has not shown that he is capable of empathizing with anybody who is not him and does not share his worldview. That's a straight up fact. He is mentally unwell. Really, truly he is. Do you realize how important empathy is? As a human trait? It's incredibly, incredibly important that a president have that trait. I am not exaggerating when I say that Trump is a sociopath.

There's a whole wide spectrum of how I would classify his supporters; all of it in my mind is incredibly deeply unfortunate and tragic.

I really detest the talk of any sort of politics on this forum, but as this topic does relate directly to a controversial political figure, I think it's fair to talk about the politics and I felt it was somewhat necessary to share my opinion about some viewpoints which I thought were being portrayed unfairly.

And I would hope people certainly wouldn't think that everyone who is voting for Trump is deranged - there are people from all walks of life, cultures, races who support him. In fact, the latest polling from likely African American voters was at 45% for Trump (up from 25% last week!). I wouldn't be calling people from those walks of life deranged.

But I think this partly proves why Mike shouldn't play this gig: politics are divisive. Especially these days. If anything, Mike, Bruce, Brian, and Al (and Blondie) should be making music together to help bring us together (where politics seems to be just pushing us apart). In a perfect world...

It is absolutely essential that this be discussed, because it's the very reason why Mike was trending on Twitter. For Mike to trend on Twitter at age 79 must mean it's a massively huge ripple in the world of pop culture  that he chose to play such a show. Mike is really a washed up has-been, and normally somebody his age would only trend if they passed away.

If anything, the fact that he is such a has-been and that the brand has been devalued so much thanks to his whoring it out, might help a little bit in this making not quite as big a dent as it might otherwise. But it's still going to hurt.

People and especially huge swaths of fans of the band are massively incensed and will not forget this.  It's going to follow him and the brand around like herpes for the rest of his life. It's very sad to say but it's true. The association between the brand and Trump never should've happened. Brian and Al had a right to be part of that conversation, yet Mike went behind their backs because he could. He's an absolute dick for doing that.

And for Mike to do that right on the heels of Mike dicking over Dennis Wilson on FF? It's no wonder that Brian's social media is giving Mike the middle finger in a passive aggressive way. God that's the greatest thing, a highlight of my week. I hope Brian's team keeps it up.

Completely agree.

That has been debunked by the way. But hold onto the theory if it is convenient.

Has systemic racism been accepted as fact? By some I guess.  By others it has been clearly debunked. Please have a look at Adam Carolla's experience with "white privilege".  Mocking a disabled person? It has been fact checked by many that it wasn't the case. Also remember Trump is still considers an anti-semite despite his Jewish family and moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Also blamed for building Obama's cages. Why bother getting the facts out when a narrative can be kept?

Duuuuude... Without question, folks of color have been treated unfairly in the legal system or in police raids, etc., that's statistically a provable fact, and incredibly sad that people want to try to say that's not true.

It doesn't mean that *every single time* things are unfair, and it also doesn't mean that some people don't cry wolf. Imbeciles like Jussie Smollett and those who endlessly defend him prove that crying wolf is a thing, and those who still continue to defend him at this point prove that extremists exist, and are willing to compartmentalize and bury their heads in the sand, and that is a sad human trait that happens on both sides of the political spectrum. And it's a reprehensible when people are that ridiculously blind to the truth.  
 
There are people on both sides who want to become super extreme, either painting every single thing as being about race, or no thing being about race, ever.

But that said, to completely outright deny that systemic racism is a thing whatsoever is a patently absurd mindset. It really wouldn't have taken a lot for Trump or Pence to have at least conceded that there are systemic race problems with the system, and that they want to fix those problems and address them. And then they could say, they don't necessarily think that as many things are about race as some might claim.

But instead, they take an extremist mindset which is 100% lacking in empathy whatsoever, unable to at least show that they give (or would even try to give) a token iota of two shits, but they can't even be bothered to do that, lest they alienate the white supremacist contingent of their fan base.

And that's Donald Trump in a nutshell. No caring, no empathy, the man doesn't have an empathetic bone in his body.

Unless you are a person of color, you haven't walked in their shoes and you cannot speak for their experiences. Just as I am not a trans woman, nor could I pretend to understand what they might have gone through in their life. But I can certainly try to understand. It's called being a human and having empathy. That's not to say that some folks from disenfranchised groups can't be asshats. Asshats exist in *every* group on the entire planet, again, because it's part of the human experience that some people unfortunately are that way.

I used to be a fan of Adam Carolla, but he has turned into a raving jackass and I have lost all respect for him. I don't intrinsically mind that he "speaks his mind" - I think nuanced conversations are important - but he seems to be missing a few microchips and comes across as a total douche. But that won't stop me from still enjoying his voice work on old episodes of Crank Yankers.

Here’s what I think should be the focus of this thread.

Mike Love shouldn’t play a concert to support a political figure in this day and age, because no matter who he supports, a large number of people are gonna be pissed off by it.

Everything else should go into a separate thread in “the sandbox”.

That is such a bullshit statement and you should be banned for being so disgusting

Um, how about no. I'm being realistic. How often do 80something musicians trend on Twitter?

Whenever I see an elderly actor trending on Twitter or popping up in my newsfeed... before I have read the headline, I am immediately worried "did they pass away"?

And that thought crosses my mind regularly about elderly celebrities if I see their names pop up out of the blue - it has nothing to do with Mike or my thoughts on him. For crying out loud.  And plenty of other people are that same way. I've seen jokes about this very topic (seeing an old person's name and having that same fear) made by comedians, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Mike. It's a general thing.

It seems that maybe 8 times out of 10, unfortunately that's exactly why they did get their name in the headline or trend on Twitter. It's not a completely unfounded fear.  Occasionally it's for other reasons, like in Mike's case. And in Mike's case, it's because of the massive amounts of outrage over what he did.

There was nothing sinister or insidious in that comment that you took such offense to, unless you are so grossly offended that I called Mike a has-been. Again, for crying out loud.

That would be all well and good if people were in agreement that Mike shouldn't have played the show for those reasons you stated. There are still people who are totally fine with that, and discussing Trump and his abhorrent policies is an attempt to show how flawed their logic is. It would sure be nice if people could not dig in their heels so deeply, and be willing to budge a few inches here and there. There are some people who can, but plenty of other folks who are way too fargone.

I’ve got no love for left wing propaganda outlets like The NY Times and WA Post. Yes they paint Trump in a particular way, just as Fox News paints any Democrat however they want for their agenda.

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

“Accepted as fact”? Wtf. Why does it have to be accepted as fact to be part of the cultural fabric of America. There are countless studies and statistics to support it, but why do you need those when you can just look around? Assuming you’ve never been followed around at a convenience store for being black. Assuming you’ve never been been pulled over by a cop for being black. Assuming you’ve never watched both black and white children be presented with a pair of identical dolls - one white, one black - and they continually refer to the black one as the “bad” doll and the “ugly” doll.

Highly recommend picking up any book by James Baldwin or Huey Newton to at least learn about a different perspective in the history of your country. Or just go on YouTube and watch the debate between Baldwin and someone who is probably one of your heroes, conservative star and royal piece of sh*t William Buckley:

https://youtu.be/oFeoS41xe7w

Sort of on topic, and Rab you might like this too. A post by Adam Marsland from a few years back about the state of current discourse. I think I saw it on Facebook though I don’t know how because I’m not a friend of his. Might have been via Probyn Gregory. I still have it on my phone because I found it interesting.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.


Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article (https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-09-15/biden-trump-aapi-voters) that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here (https://aapidata.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/aavs2020_crosstab_national.html).

Adam Carolla is a has-been white comedian, he is not an authority on race in America. Speaking as a Jewish person who knows many other Jewish people, nobody I know gives a sh*t about the embassy in Jerusalem. In fact conflating American Jews with Israel is pretty anti-semitic to begin with. Plus, Trump has endorsed the Qanon conspiracy group multiple times recently and they are vile anti-semites. Being related to Jared Kushner doesn't automatically make Trump best friend to the Jews and didn't stop him from complaining that "they're only in it for themselves."
Anybody involved with the immigration cages deserves to be called out on it but most of the blame goes to ICE, a violent government organization who have been sexually assaulting their detainees and Trump has given them nothing but praise.

Rab, where in that Washington Post linked article does it say what you are claiming?

The headline states "Chinese coronavirus infections, death toll soar as fifth case is confirmed in U.S."

Dude, your reading skills are way off then, you shouldn't be making this kind of mistake.  It is not "Chinese Coronavirus" as a proper noun.  It refers to infections and death toll from coronavirus in China, and the first sentence of the article reinforces that. 

Thanks for the correction! There are plenty of other examples of the media using it as a proper noun though (which is probably why you didn't choose any of my other examples) but kudos to the Washington Post.

Discussion has devolved into no longer even MENTIONING Mike’s connection to this thread. Completely political...

I chose not to engage you on this, respectfully, because the argument isn't good and totally based in confirmation bias.  
I am making an assumption that you are perhaps British, and then you maybe don't see the daily goings on of Trump from January 2020 until now.  You cannot make some kind of "bUt WhAt AbOuT tHe LiBeRaL mEdIa" statement, based on a few early news clippings or whatnot - that since winter 2020 have totally not been the accepted journalistic norm in how to describe and report on our current covid outbreak.  What is seen by observers in America is that he has chosen to use the term "China Virus" in special circumstances, all throughout spring and summer, specifically when he is mass communicating in some sort of arena of his followers, to rile them up and reinforce their chosen values - which here involves making a boogeyman/scapegoat/fall guy out of a vaguely articulated concept of "China".  This isn't a case of fuzzy terminology or unfair slant from "liberal media".  It is obvious dog whistling, which is nothing like your couple early examples of fleshing out terminology.  
Which gets me on a side point-  Trump actually isn't a racist.  He doesn't really care what your race is.  However he is (first) - a classist.  He enjoys 1%ers of all races and backgrounds and wants nothing to do with the other 99%.  He is also a race-baiter - he uses racism as a tool.  This is far worse than being a racist, and there needs to be bigger consequences to this.

Yeah I have to agree with this, and definitely apologies for contributing to how off-topic this got (though the reading comprehension lesson from the kid was actually useful for me). If anyone wants to PM me about anything, please feel free.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term. Asian-Americans are a diverse group. Of course there are some who might support Trump and might not find it offensive. I'm not talking about stigmatizing the people of the country of China. That's a reasonable topic, but not anything I'm commenting on. I'm talking about use of the term "Chinese virus" by the President (and others) is racially insensitive to Asian-Americans. I can't believe I'm having to explain this, but terms like "Chinese" and "Mexican" are commonly used in America to described large, diverse groups of Americans. And Trump uses these terms to stigmatize these groups and provoke members of his base who are receptive to racism and xenophobia. This is part of why he is so dangerous. And I would argue while the problems that have lead to the recent protests against inequality have always existed, Trump and Trumpism are quite likely some of the primary reasons why we are seeing this at this moment in history.

2- You said "The Proud Boys have African American members". I said just because an organization "has an African American member" does not mean they are not a racist group. I am struggling to understand what is controversial, misquoted, or misrepresented there. Here are some quotes from Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys founder (a white man): "I love being white, and I think it's something to be very proud of. I don't want our culture diluted. We need to close the borders now and let everyone assimilate to a Western, white, English-speaking way of life." "I want violence. I want punching in the face. I'm disappointed in Trump supporters for not punching enough."

I don't understand what your intention is here.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling. 

Have folks from Finland traditionally experienced a good deal of racism in the US? Are there ethnic racist nicknames for Finnish folks that are commonly known by Americans?

No. Because Finnish folks are generally white passing, and would not even stand out from traditional Caucasian white US folks. Asian Americans, on the other hand, have certainly experienced quite a bit of prejudice over the years, such as internment camps, and any other kinds of racial indignities like yellowface in movies, you name it. Racist people don't necessarily even understand the distinction between Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans.

That's just one reason why it's particularly harmful to repeatedly refer to the disease in that manner.

I personally have Asian American friends who have experienced racist garbage hurled at them since the coronavirus started, and if you think that they are out of line by being furious that Trump has thrown gasoline on the fire, then you are burying your head in the sand.

So it's an apples and oranges comparison. If you can't understand that it's not comparable to the hypothetical of the virus having started in Finland, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's an absurd comparison for many reasons.

So is immediately assuming that folks pointing to China for the outbreak is solely based on racism.  No one is disputing that the Chinese have experienced racism before (just as every single other ethnic group has been the target of it before, including white people - ever heard the term "gweilo" before?), but you have yet to point to any specific evidence that there has been deliberate racist intent in labeling Covid as the Chinese virus.  People keep throwing the term "racism" around as if it were subjective.  It isn't.  And taking a critical stance against a country of differing cultures and ethnicities who have had a history of shady behavior does not automatically equate to racism. 

Not necessarily everyone who says "Chinese viruls" is by definition doing it out of some racist bent. But the racist bent has been normalized by Trump and his foaming-at-the-mouth extremist supporters. And for people to GO OUT OF THEIR WAY  to intentionally "correct" people who don't say "China Virus", and then excitedly exclaim "CHINA VIRUS!!! CHINA VIRUS!!!"... those folks who find it necessary (like Trump) to rub it in peoples' faces and make sure that the word "China" is ALWAYS said in conjunction with mentioning Covid... those folks are doing it solely based on racism.

And that's due mainly to Trump being a racist sack of crap, and EGGING ON the racist people ON PURPOSE.

And that's why is MORE harmful to Asian Americans in general, as opposed to your hypothetical of Finnish folks, if the disease had come from there and labeled as the Finnish Disease. It would still not be great for Finnish folks, but there's absolutely no comparison. Please tell me you can understand that. Whatever discrimination that you want mention about white folks having experienced discrimination before is truly not comparable to what Asian Americans have experienced, MOST ESPECIALLY within the confines of the USA. Apples and oranges to such a major degree it's a laughable comparison.

The problem that Trumpers have is grasping the concept that not all groups have received the same amount of prejudice hurled at them over the years within this country especially, and Trumpers are just put off by what they perceive as "special treatment" for certain groups. That's very much the "all lives matter" type of mindset where they cannot understand that certain groups sometimes need certain extra considerations, based on many factors.  I believe that the term "white privilege" sometimes gets thrown around excessively, and there are some people who cry wolf, but this is not a cry wolf situation. 

Walk a mile in somebody else's shoes and maybe you'll understand. Can you tell me you can really know what it's like to be a trans woman on a daily basis unless you are a trans woman yourself? You can kinda sort maybe assume what it might be like, but you can't REALLY know the full levels of BS that I'm sure trans folks have to deal with from POS bigots and morons. Same concept here. You cannot know the true, deep down level of what it's like to be an Asian American family who has experienced discrimination, weird looks being hurled at them, you name it, unless you are that ethnicity yourself.

You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.

Trump's intentions in this world are solely based on what's in it for him. Doing things ON PURPOSE, JUST TO BE RACIST is more of a secondary thing that just happens naturally or sometimes inadvertently - but ALWAYS without apology or recognizing it - because he's so clueless as to be a guy to say he's "the least racist person in the room".

I don't think he's trying to "mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity". What he IS trying to do is deflect EVERYTHING off of him, deflect the failed US response to Covid (whether or not you feel it was failed or not, Trump knows that MANY Americans view it as failed), and also while Trump is not very bright, he is skilled very much at being able to manipulate the masses. He knows that racist people will bite on the "CHIIIIIIIIINA VIRUSSSSSSS!!!!" mentality, and that it will get him more supporters. All he cares about.

Trump's own niece (who would know a thing or two about the Trump family) spoke about how Trump's dad drilled in a "never apologize for anything, ever, it's a sign of weakness" type of mentality into Donald, same sickness that Mike apparently has. And so to not appear weak, and to not in any way, shape or form accept an iota of responsibility, Trump will deflect onto something that he knows will make his MAGA extremists get massive hard ons and scream USA! USA!

And if a side effect is a bunch of racist crap hurled at Asian Americans, he could give less than zero f*cks. All he cares about is himself, he has ZERO ZERO ZERO empathy for anyone who isn't him.

His intent is to deflect off of him, and to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, at any and all times, regardless of consequence, if it benefits himself. By ANY means necessary that he can get away with.  In this manner, I see him sharing Mike's mentality. I think Mike would (and has shown when he kicked out Al in 1998 for example) do absolutely anything he can get away with for purposes of power. Scruples and doing what's right and ethical are not words in Mike's vocabulary, or if they are present, they come a very distant second to all manners concerning ego.

That's just part of his Trump's personality and why he is unfit to be president. Trump's lack of tact is SO extreme, that the amount of massive hatred from foreign extremists who would probably be fine with using violence, I'm sadly sure is increasing EXPONENTIALLY around the world. Tact is a VERY important trait. There's no way to rid the world of all extremists, but a certain way to cause them to quietly brew is to talk about people and cultures with the continued lack of tact and at times utter contempt that he does.

I'm certainly not disputing Trump's obvious character flaws nor the dysfunction taking place with his family and political cabinet.  And although he's undeniably an egomaniac, there are plenty of (albeit buried) stories of him doing kind things specifically for people.  It is important to note that the contentiousness between China and the U.S. has been going on long before Trump ever took office.  And Trump has had some successes in foreign policy particularly in the Middle Eastern peace deal as well as (at least for now) calming the tensions with North Korea somewhat (although I'm hesitant to call that a complete win yet).  It doesn't really matter to me what you or anyone else thinks of the guy as I'm not particularly fond of him myself, but if we've any interest in upholding an egalitarian society we're going to have to learn how to keep our emotions in check and be a lot more objective about folks with differing views.  Even with a guy like Trump. 

Your previous quote "You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil" is incorrect. A very close childhood friend of mine who I love dearly (just for example) has drank the Kool-Aid and has gone down a super religious wormhole, and is blindly supporting Trump because he's become a single issue voter over abortion. (Which of course is ironic, because good ol' bareback-in-a-porn-star Trump has doubtlessly shot dozens of unprotected loads into any number of gold-digging flings/porn stars, and I'm sure Trump personally doesn't believe the anti abortion stuff at all, it's just pure pandering). My friend is not the scourge of all evil, he's sadly just very misguided at this time. I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth.

I can be objective with people, but they have to be objective too, to understand just how harmful Trump is. He is like a cancer on this country. Again, the amount of extreme hatred of the US that is surely brewing right now from extremists all around the world, due to Trump's EXTREME lack of tact (among many other things) might make WWIII or some too terrible to imagine scenario happen down the road. It's unthinkable the damage that he is doing, and what he may be setting in motion.

His EXTREME lack of tact is not just a "mere" character flaw. It's an example (one of many) of why he is UNFIT to be president. Some things need to be dealbreakers for the leader of the free world.

I believe in nuance. I almost never believe in purely black & white, good/evil statements. I'll give Mike a smidge of nuace here and there, but it's getting increasingly harder to. Trump has not ever shown he has an ounce of empathy for anyone other than himself, and is such a royal POS that I don't believe he is worthy of any nuance. He's a rotten scumbag to the core.

I guess I'll take your word for it about your friend, but it doesn't sound like you respect him too much if you think he's "drinking the Kool-Aid".  Is it possible that maybe he just came to a different conclusion than you?  And again, your views of Trump are yours.  And while it's fine that you (or anyone else for that matter) may not like or support him, you seem to be hopelessly naïve to that fact that not everyone views him the same way you do.  And yes, no matter how polarizing Trump may be, it is ok that people can support him (and for good reasons that don't include some kind of hatred or bigotry).  Just because *you* view Trump as harmful does not mean that his supporters have to see it that way.  Despite his theatrics Trump's supporters have felt he has delivered at least in providing a strong economy (pre-Covid anyway) and bringing jobs back to the country.  You don't have to agree with them but to dismiss them as "Trumpers" doesn't show a lot of objectivity on your behalf.  We all have our own interests and ideas of which direction we want the country to head.  We're simply not going to all agree on everything.  But instead of trying to shut people down or discredit them for differing views, we're going to have to relearn how to put our emotions aside and engage one another in finding commonality.  Trump did not create all this dysfunction; he is a product of it. 

Anyway I don't want this thread to go off the rails and head for the Sandbox since the Beach Boys have left the discussion.  So I'll just throw in that you could definitely compare Trump's theatrics to Mike Love's as they both have are very polarizing figures in their respective fields.  And despite their obvious character flaws and fair criticisms against them, the hysteria against both of them seems to have gone completely off the rails. 

Some candidates (a very select few) are THAT bad, that it's unacceptable for them to be in office, and I can't just "let it go" and be OK with Trump supporters and say, "oh well". I mean, I cannot force (nor would I want to force) anyone to change their minds, but I sure as hell hope that people can come to their senses. I mean, Adolf Hitler, David Duke, Tom Metzger, those would be guys who we'd probably not be arguing about. Somewhere, everyone has a line that they draw in the sand. I hated the Bushes, but there were in no way remotely so unfit to be president compared to the tool who's in there now.

Getting Trump out of office and BRI voting Mike out power to disable his ability to drag the brand name into the mud would be a wonderful way to end this otherwise awful year. Neither are fit for the power they hold. Mike has abused his power in such a gross way. Although I can imagine that Mike has figured out a way to try and prevent that from ever happening due to who knows what types of legal wrangling behind the scenes.

Am I not thinking hard enough, or are you not reading hard enough?

I said it’s racially and culturally insensitive to use the term “Chinese virus”. That’s not particularly controversial or debatable. Providing logical explanations for why people might “innocently” use an offensive term is not a valid defense IMO. It’s a cop out.

Ha “virtue signaling”, gimme a break. Clearly you’ve yet to see it because you see what you want to see. I personally learned about Coronavirus for the first time back in January via a Chinese American  friend who casually mentioned “everyone is looking at me funny when I sneeze”. Open your eyes, or get out of your Breitbart bubble or something.

I am liberal and agree with mtaber....

Same here.

Let’s get this back on topic in regards to Mike specifically ( truth be told, performing for any political fundraiser in this climate  is a bad move imho..:.and that’s on topic)

I want to thank Mike Love for his continued uncanny ability to invent new and novel ways of making me embarrassed to be a Beach Boys  fan, well into the 21st Century!

I think Mike does these things just to get his name in the headlines. Remember his speech at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? He's never shown any remorse for that; in his view, it was good publicity for the Beach Boys, who were going to be overshadowed by the Fab Four and Robert Zimmerman. "I'm gonna make sure all the headlines aren't about Ms. Ross and Macca not showing up".

I actually think Mike’s speech at the HOF was kinda cool.

Right....but Joe's you ain't black or Hilary's fake southern drawl in a southern baptist church gets crickets. Actions speak louder than words some might say. A common play of the left is to claim someone said all people when an observation is made. When did Trump call all Mexicans rapists, etc? Find the quote. Likely not but you'll find the claim coming from all over the left.

Hey there, for what it's worth I think both Biden and Hillary have said embarrassing things. I think Trump has said many abhorrent things. These opinions are not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, there could be some truth to that. But I also think he may very well align with Trump on many issues and legitimately thinks Trump is the right man for the job. Keep in mind that 50 Cent and Lil Pump (two rather well-known rap artists) just endorsed Trump - citing tax reasons. Mike probably has that same viewpoint...and perhaps Mike isn't at all flushed to use The Beach Boys name as a tool to help keep his personal taxes lower.

But to get back to your point, it is probably also good for The touring Beach Boys as well - just look at Trump's rallies and you can see how people come in droves to see him speak. Perhaps Mike is also thinking "this would be a great advertisement for snag the only group of people willing to brave COVID-19. If these people show up for Trump rallies surely they'd come watch America's Band perform at a concert, especially if I basically endorse the guy.". So in that regard, I can see how this would be good publicity for Mike (more specifically, the touring band).

I'm not a Biden supporter, so your point makes no sense to me. I subscribe to Noam Chomsky's recommendation: If you are in a swing state, vote for the lesser of two evils (Biden is clearly evil but clearly the lesser here). If you are in a full red or blue state, vote third party.

So you're saying it's okay for Trump and his supporters to make racist statements just because Biden and Clinton made more mild, offensive statements that one time? Cool, makes a lot of sense bro.

aloha

I think I’ll visit a web forum for Trump and a web forum for Biden and see if they’re discussing nothing but Mike Love...

You're right, this topic needs to get back to the Beach Boys. Mike's inarguably a tool for playing the show against the wishes of Brian and Al.

I'd really like to know how he'd justify that, not just playing the show because he likes Trump, but how he thinks it's fine and ethically dandy to use the brand name to promote such a divisive candidate (whether one likes Trump or not, it cannot be argued he is more divisive than any candidate in any of our lifetimes), and did it AGAINST THE WISHES of Brian and Al.

Would love to hear Mike explain how that's fine.  

Is there ANY explanation Mike could give other than "I did it because I can, and the feelings of Brian and Al don't matter to me?"
 

Most didn't, both in the audience and in the public. It cemented his poor reputation, and the speech is even more ironic and hypocritical now in retrospect. Objectively, it did nothing good for the band or Mike.

There are ways to give a punk-attitude, tell-it-like-it-is, rebellious speech at the R&R HOF. Mike's speech was not that. He called out Mick Jagger for not being there even though Jagger was there. He patted himself on the back for doing more gigs per year than the deceased John Lennon. He called out McCartney and Diana Ross for being hung up on lawsuits, even though Mike did and does have a world-famous reputation for being litigious. Mike set up Bob Dylan and Elton John to give better speeches/one-liners in response to Mike's speech.

You said it far better than I could. I’ve never understood the opinion that Mike’s actions at the HoF were punk or rebellious (or cool). The speech was hypocritical while he was giving the speech: he was chastising others for not being in harmony and went on to berate a slew of artists seconds later (and as you pointed out, his jabs didn’t even make sense). Not to mention his antics while a clearly stage-frightened Brian was trying to give a speech.

All one has to do is look at the photos of Carl taken while he is watching Mike give the speech. He looks mortified and is giving the famous "look".

If we keep getting on Trump vs Biden and not on the Beach Bots, I’m locking this thread

Agreed. But it’s probably his same attitude that kept him from pulling out of the trophy hunting gig after Trump jr decided to take pathetic jabs at Brian. He clearly doesn’t care about the feelings of Brian or Al. I think of all the garbage that went on before that trophy hunting show, but to me the “proud I triggered another Hollywood liberal” line was the worst part of that. And I say that because whether or not you agree with trophy hunting, Mike absolutely should have stuck up for his cousin and ditched the gig after that comment.

Brian didn’t want The Beach Boys name (and subsequently his very own songs) associated with the killing of animals (which, Mr. Pacific Ocean Blues should have completely understood), and did what any rational person would’ve done: protested the show. And then he got mocked for it by one of the main guys at the event. But Mike went on with the show regardless.

And it’s completely similar in this case: regardless of how you feel about Trump, in this day and age the music of The Beach Boys should not be tethered to a certain political party or campaign. Even if there was some Transcendental Meditation party that was running on the platform of harmony and peace. Just leave the music out of all of this garbage. And given how one of the Trumps already mocked Brian freaking Wilson I would hope that Mike would stay as far from them as possible. But again, he clearly doesn’t care about Brian’s feelings. And he’s proved this time and time and time again in the last 5 decades.

Yeah definitely. And now it’s solidified in Beach Boys lore as one of the most embarrassing episodes for the band (which is saying a lot). And of course the Lovester has no remorse for it.

He really just needs to outright SAY IT.  I mean, we know it's the case, but he should specifically be put on the spot about it. Because it's just so unethical and awful and utterly disrespectful. Yet because his middle name is Vengeance and not actually Edward, he probably justifies it because of how "disrespectfully" he thinks he was treated during C50.

What we need is a Borat type of person to come along and give an in depth interview to Mike, where they slowly work these kinds of questions into the mix.

He was clearly hopped up on the apple juice, and the execution was poor - but I would argue that the act was admirable. Then again, I dislike the rock n roll hall of fame and much of what it stands for and represents. And I think Mike’s points were true- however poorly, he was giving an F You to the rock elite, which I do indeed think was cool.

Sometimes I wonder if the guy is just subversive. Maybe he’s not even a Trump supporter.

I don't recall Mike calling out Mick for not being there - he called him out for "being chicken$#it to share the stage with the Beach Boys". He compared the Beach Boys constant touring to the Beatles not touring at all - not specifically John Lennon. I'm sure Mike thought "we lost a member, but we still tour; what's your excuse, Fab Four?"
When I look at the footage of that speech, I see a crazed look in Mike's eyes. I forget what the backstory to that night was; Mike had been fasting or something; or levitating. He does not look normal, even for Mike. It's interesting that he was on much better behavior a week later at the American Music Awards. And Brian read the same speech there that he'd read at the HOF.

So, Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes, or Mike Love at R&R HOF?  :lol

Ricky actually had biting humor that was clever and well thought out. Even for people who may think that he's a jerk and went too far, Ricky at least spoke coherently and intellectually. Mike just seems to be doing a stream of consciousness rant of ego garbage. Laughably hypocritical too.

Everything is to pump himself up at the expense of others. That's just his THING. Just like that lifestyles of the rich and famous clip, where he puts down Brian and Dennis, and then immediately pats himself on the back, like he's doing a "compare and contrast" exhibit at an elementary school show and tell. It's his Goofus and Gallant level childish tick. Goofus Love.

It seems the stream of consciousness dribble is his normal type of thing, sort of how he just rambles off lyrics on the way to recording sessions and considers that to be the final draft on his piece of art. To Mike's credit, I'm sure he wrote some decent lyrics sometimes via that method, and many songwriters including Brian will too sometimes. But a speech in that type of atmosphere is no place for a big stupid unprepared rant.

Just take a look at how Brian took the time to bring a prepared speech; granted it was probably Landy's idea, but still at least he presented himself as a respectful person with something well thought out to say. Mike might as well have dropped his pants and put a microphone up to his ass.

Just watched it again. It is pretty difficult to decipher exactly what he means for much of it. What is the connection between the US being 6% or the world's population and that being why Mike travelled to the ceremony with Mohammad Ali?

I imagine if you asked Mike or Bruce to explain their politics, they'd similarly spout off some stupid undecipherable drivel/rant to prove that they're the "smartest guys in the room", namechecking celebrities, and throwing around random tin foil hat percentages and numbers.

I posed the question previously in a different thread, and I'll pose it again here: when Mike said "they've been saying Mike's crazy for years" (I'm paraphrasing), who are the "they" in question? (I don't expect anyone to actually "know", but I'm just curious what everyone thinks).

Did people around Mike actually say "you're crazy" to him repeatedly for years? I'm curious what that might have been about. Maybe it was just a half assed attempt at self-deprecation, and not something that people were actually saying to Mike. But I do wonder if anyone tried to tell him that he had narcissistic personality disorder (but perhaps didn't know the booksmart term for it, and instead said "you're crazy" as an attempt to tell him about his NPD).

Did Mike expect the crowd to somehow think "gee, that Mike, he's right!" I just can't wrap my head around his drivel and what he was hoping to achieve.

Well, you know, in fairness, in the earlier parts of the speech about maybe 1/4 of the audience are cheering him on.

Well Mike probably had maybe 1/4 of a decent point he attempted to make, before he ruined it with his patented lack of tact and self-aggrandizing.

It's funny, I'll bet that if someone wanted to, they could listen carefully to that speech, transcribe it out, and rewrite it in a way that perhaps could get a tiny bit of his (probably well-intended for parts of it) point across, but the end result would be the most anti-Mike sounding speech ever if it were to be taken through the Tact & Decency Translator.

I feel like buried deep within Mike there are probably a handful of decent qualities and good intentions, but they are just completely overwhelmed and obscured by his compulsive tendencies at self-aggrandizing.

Imagine if there was a Landy character treating Mike's NPD, who instead of padlocking the fridge, gave Mike an electro shock every time he said something egotistical?  :lol

His delivery was pretty all over the place, but the gist of the speech IMO was:

The Beach Boys are regular working class people, we still perform, we set aside our differences to be here, we’re for harmony in the world- whereas the rock n roll elite think they’re better than everyone else- and loosely equating the attitude of the rock elite with the greater attitude of the Western world.

Also (from Wikipedia): “Ali was known for being a humanitarian[219] and philanthropist.[220][221] He focused on practicing his Islamic duty of charity and good deeds, donating millions to charity organizations and disadvantaged people of all religious backgrounds. It is estimated that Ali helped to feed more than 22 million people afflicted by hunger across the world.“

Again, the obvious hypocrisy is that Mike is supposedly claiming to “set aside differences” for the sake of harmony in his own band but yet he himself couldn’t set aside the differences he had with those attending and not attending the event. Harmony isn’t achieved by berating others for not being in harmony.

It reminds me of this video I saw of a pastor going ballistic on his own congregation for not being Christian/loving enough: he’s up in the pulpit saying hateful things to those in his congregation whom he feels morally superior to...it’s just blatantly hypocritical.

I mean, having a good point and making it in a controversial and bold way - however muddied the delivery may have been - are not mutually exclusive with also being kind of a dick or a hypocrite.

Mike Love is historically, in my view, a talented guy who played an important role in the Beach Boys ... and also something of a prick.

“Brian Wilson is a genius”. “Yeh but again, he also did drugs.”

“Phil Spector was a great producer.” “Yeh but he’s a convicted murderer.”

“Charles Manson made a fantastic record.” “Yeh but the CIA MKUltra’d his ass via their covert CHAOS program ...”

Brian Wilson having done drugs, says absolutely NOTHING whatsoever about the quality of his character. This only equates to acts self harm, self medication... it was not bile inflicted on others to preserve some sort of narcissistic, pathetic sense of self, like his shithead (and sometimes talented, when he wants to be) cousin.

Brian's a very decent man who OWNS UP to his failings and that's the big, big difference why I don't look at him and see any sort of "but".

The only "but" is the tragedy of how much more the man could have achieved if he had a better support system in place when he needed it, which sadly does include the tragedy of "what if" he hadn't done so much drugs. Again, nothing to with his character, unless you find an abused person's compulsive need to self-medicate some sort of "character flaw" (I don't).

Everyone else on that list is IMO objectively a bad person, to varying degrees. I mean, if you want to be really generous, you can find traces of "good person" traits (probably) in every single person you'd ever come across. Mike's the least bad of the other 2 baddies on that list, but I'd not on the whole call him a good person in my view.  

I don’t think BW doing drugs is a negative trait personally. I’m saying being a genius is not mutually exclusive to doing drugs. Being a great producer is not mutually exclusive to being a murderer. And making a cool record is not mutually exclusive to being Charles Manson. To illustrate that Mike Love having a point and making what I consider to be a cool speech, is not mutually exclusive to also being a hypocrite and a jerk.

I’m using familiar “Yeh but ...” statements that are used to discredit a thing, like many posters are doing here w/ Mike’s speech. That is to say, “he’s a dick and a hypocrite” doesn’t mean the speech doesn’t have valid points.

But I don’t believe anyone is “objectively” a “good” or “bad” person (I think that idea is dangerous), so agree to disagree there.

I agree perhaps Mike might have had a tiny morsel of a point he was *trying* to make with the speech, but he biffed it to such a degree - and was super hypocritical while doing it - and embarrassed his bandmates by doing so - that I just can't get behind any defense of that speech at all.

Fair enough, yes there are always shades of grey, even with Mike (those shades are hard to see when he repulses me to such a degree). I agree very much about the mutually exclusive thing you're saying, which is why it always bugs me when people defending Mike's actions assume that those who rightfully rag on him have a black-and-white view about him. I mean, some people who don't like Mike do have such a view, but I think most people who are true, hardcore fans of the band, understand the nuance.

It's possible for him to have contributed some solid and at times great things to the band in the first several years of their existence, and for him to have done a bunch of terrible damage as the years went on, and for fans to think he sucks HARD as a dude. One can think he's generally a piece of crap, and also acknowledge the good contributions... though I'd be hard-pressed to find many selfless Mike actions, just like I'd be hard-pressed to find any selfless actions Trump did in his entire life as a person.

Because of the similarities in aspects of their personalities (obviously they are different people, but the narcissism gene and in particular the repeated history of mowing down others in their wake to varying degrees), Mike attaching the band to Trump is going to never go away, but it'll stick to Mike the most. I mean, other than convicted murderers like Manson, Trump has already become the single most notorious person in modern American history (like it or not Trump fans, that's going to be the view of history), just as Mike has become the most hated man in rock history. They of course are not hated to the same degree, but conflating those two guys again and again  (all solely thanks to Mike's repeated associations to Trump) only serves to amplify peoples' opinions of Mike - and on top of everything, the cherry on the sh*t pie - for Mike to essentially give what amounts to a public handjob to Trump RIGHT AT THE SAME TIME he is quashing the FF box set and Dennis' work in particular... that's some next level sh*t Mike will not ever live down.

There are other people in rock who have done plenty of terrible things, but Mike due to his longevity, and due to those things just getting worse with time, over decades and decades, is going to have a very poor reputation for all times. Salieri level.

Any truly objective book or movie about Mike will of course always have to acknowledge his undeniable contributions, and nothing legitimate should be played down, regardless of how one feels about the guy. That's why I even nudge folks like OSD to acknowledge that songs like Please Let Me Wonder are undeniably examples that Mike could bring it, sometimes, both lyrically and vocally. To dismiss that is silly, and it also undermines legit criticisms of Mike. But no credible historian can really talk about this band without deep diving into Mike's narcissism and all the damage it has done. That could be a whole book in and of itself, but it should most certainly be discussed (sadly, but necessarily) a whole lot in any scholarly discussion of the band.

Anytime that uncomfortable topic will be avoided, it will be an immediate obvious sign that the content is just a puff piece like ESQ, where brownosing in order to maintain access is the obvious priority.

Yeah.  Why is it that those who scream the loudest for love and tolerance and proclaim themselves champions against hatred always seem to be the most hateful of the bunch?  🤷‍♂️

“Unfortunately, [our differences] haven’t been [settled], so I would feel like a complete hypocrite waving and smiling with (Harrison and Starr) at a fake reunion.” - Paul McCartney about not attending the event.

Diana Ross, having had a baby not too long before, cited personal reasons for not going to the event. She also said that she was honored for being inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Ross’ spokesperson said this about the speech, which I think sums it up perfectly: “If his speech was intended to be about harmony, it had totally the opposite effect. It was divisive, judgmental, misguided and at times venomous.”

Boasting about the amount of touring you do compared to other artists does nothing to prove a point about harmony.

Mike berating the Rock n Roll elite for not being in harmony? He merely called out some hard-working artists, some of whom chose not to be there for their own personal reasons. Calling a fellow artist “chickenshit”? That’s not cool, it’s just crass.

Perhaps Paul thought he was doing the world a favor by not showing up in a foul mood. Perhaps Diana really did want to stay home with her baby.

The biggest takeaway from Mike’s speech didn’t come from Mike, but from Bob Dylan’s critique of Mike’s speech: “Peace, love and harmony is important indeed, but so is forgiveness.”

Perhaps Mike did have a point about harmony buried beneath those layers of venom and divisive statements, but those statements did so much more harm than good for the harmony he was supposedly attempting to promote. And thus, I just don’t see how any of what he said was cool or rebellious (as others have previously argued) when in the end it just seemed to hurt rather than heal.


Right??

He did both:

"I know Mick Jagger won't be here tonight -- he's gonna have to stay in England. But I'd like to see us in the Coliseum and he at Wembley Stadium because he's always been chickens--- to get onstage with the Beach Boys."

Not only did he look like an idiot because Jagger was literally in the building that night, but he also looked like an idiot because, and I love the Beach Boys, their live show, certainly by 1988, was nowhere near of the caliber of a rock show as the Rolling Stones. I say that as someone that is a way bigger fan of the BBs than the Stones.

It would be like Jagger getting on stage and saying the Beach Boys have always been afraid to go to-to-toe singing harmonies compared to the Stones.

Maybe there was a time when the live BB stage show gave the Stones a run for their money, but that would have been pre-1976.

Nobody in the industry, or music press, or general rock fandom, was thinking the 1988 Beach Boys were a hotter live band than the Stones. Most post-1970-something reviews of BB live shows, the *good* reviews that is, usually pointed out the band's impressive *setlist*, as in string of hits, as opposed to singling out the *show* being like a sh*t-hot live rock show.

Mike was a drunken asshole that night....

And everybody, from the audience full of industry people, to fandom who had a chance to read/hear that speech, knew that such a sentiment was a crock of s**t. While it's debatable how "working class" the various members were pre-fame, certainly by 1988 their "working class" days had ended circa 1962 or so. And, the band was already known as not being "all about harmony." The Gaines book was out by then, and many elements of the band's and the individual members' reputations were already in place by then.

It was received as an ironic, hypocritical speech *back in 1988*, and in the intervening years has become only *more* ironic and hypocritical. In later years, the band usually *couldn't* set aside differences to do things together. Mike didn't turn up at the Hawthorne landmark dedication. When he did the Grammy luncheon thing in the early 2000s, he and Al stayed as far away from each other as possible. And then there are the numerous lawsuits.

Barring 2012, the reputation of the Beach Boys as a powerhouse rock act only got worse after 1988.

McCartney certainly learned more lessons than Mike did. Cut to decades later, and it's Mike who can't be in the same room with Melinda while Paul and Yoko are holding hands doing red carpet events, and all the group and solo Beatles stuff gets cross-promoted on all platforms. Meanwhile, Brian and Al have to call out Mike's own touring band multiple times in the same year, Mike says in interviews he can't even be bothered to listen to Brian's solo stuff let alone cross-promote anything, and the list goes on and on.

I'm not saying there's not a single germ of an interesting point buried in Mike's speech. But he didn't convey any of those points well, or succinctly, or efficiently, and he had zero credibility being the person to try to impart any of those points.

I don't disagree with anything here. I still think the speech was a good move in that context, and the point made was valid. Possibly just the subversive nature of it is appealing.

Johnny Rotten's was better for sure: http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/johnny-rotten-hall-of-fame.jpg

Mike's speech was subversive in the same accidental way that barfing on stage or slipping and falling into the crowd would also be subversive.

Hypocrisy and irony from the speaker in question will undercut any possibly valid point. And I'm not even fully into stipulating that Mike's underlying point was valid. I think his point or points were muddled. He's calling out the institution and its members, yet then criticizing people for not partaking in the event, and patting himself on the back for showing up. Everything apart from not showing up that Mike was calling out in the speech was something he was partaking in himself. He was in a tux, participating, rubbing elbows, etc.

 :h5 :rock :love :happydance :bow :woot :woot :woot :thumbsup :wave And another thing, amazing how everyone he called out in that tirade are leagues ahead of that crumb in the talent department. The same goes for when he talks smack about Brian who we all know is several solar systems ahead of that drip. I would have loved to see a couple of security guards haul him out of the building and into the dumpster.  >:D

THIS. Also,


This is probably the most on-point simplistic explanation for that night. You could even take out “drunken” and that post would still explain much of Mike’s actions for the last 3 decades when dealing with Brian.

If Mike wasn't so incredibly smug, self-righteous, and defensive about the speech in hindsight, not to mention being that way about practically everything he's ever done with the band, people would probably dislike him a good degree less. I think many fans of this band, if not most, have forgiveness in their hearts, but it's awfully hard to forgive somebody who doesn't fess up to acting like an absolute asshat. Or to hurting others. And just keeps doing both, repeatedly, like it ain't no thing.

You’re absolutely right, and if Mike even showed one small morsel of remorse for his actions that night (and for future actions/statements) he would not be vilified as much (if at all). We are all human and we all screw up - but most of us have the ability to take responsibility for our screw ups - most of us can admit that we screw up (especially when our screw ups are placed out in the open).

And it’s not even that Mike is an evil person because he doesn’t admit this. It’s probably more that very few people can even relate to that mindset. In fact, most of us dislike that kind of behavior because most of us know people personally like that, and it’s irritating as hell to work or live around someone who can’t accept any blame for a problem that they caused.

It’s just such an odd juxtaposition: I’d fully expect this behavior from Axl Rose or some other crazy leader of an out-of-control rock band. But it instead comes from a member of the (mostly) wholesome band that brought us the most incredible love album of all time (Pet Sounds) during a speech that was supposedly about “harmony” that instead instantly morphed into conveying the opposite of harmony in only a way Mike Love himself could do. But then you realize that this is The Beach Boys and mostly everything this band does makes little sense in regards to anything logical.

Get OSD on stage with him! >:D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSAQX2uuUY

Actually, I stand corrected. Some kind YouTuber has painstakingly taken the time to edit together the known incidents of Mike apologizing and fessing up for bad behavior. Looks like I was wrong about the guy:

https://youtu.be/fx2Z5ZD_Rbo

Yes Mike...the Wilsons did drugs. But at no point while doing so did they disrespect some of the biggest acts in music to their face or in front of the cameras.

I'd go for that in a heartbeat but his inflated, outrageous, annoying, insidious ego would hog the entire stage.  ::)

Kamala does her best Spinal Tap https://youtu.be/gjNOxrzU-As

Joe Biden is Joe Biden's husband  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6G9-UykIBw

Now that is a great combo to support!

Is it possible Donald Trump and Mike Love are the same person?

If I lived in a city that votes 85 percent Democrat, I wouldn't feel comfortable going out in a t-shirt of any kind – or shirtless, for that matter.

Are you for real? He says "Jill Biden's husband", because his wife's name is Jill.

 :bw "We have absolutely nothing to do with the Trump Benefit!"   :h5  "But Donald Trump has never been anything but kind to us !?"   :santa

WELL WELL WELL, That Fund Raising Gig really helped out, didn't it  :lol

Losers flocking together - history will judge Mike and Trump harshly, in the gutter.

:hat

Nobody can leave their political biases outside. 

Where has joe blow been. Feel like he hasn’t posted lately. Must be busy.

Yeah, I feel like since Feel Flows got confirmed (but no details) the site has slowed down a lot. I’ve noticed Guitarfool hasn’t been around in a while, too.

I'm back catching up for the first time today, I just got really busy with my teaching and other life events the past few weeks and had to take a break with not enough time for all the online stuff.

I think Mike and co. will be very busy in the coming years - they can play "get Trump out of jail" fundraisers.

I admit my post was fueled more by the fact that the poster I was referring to only seemed to pitch in mostly with anti-Joe Biden and anti-Democratic Party material as opposed to anything to do with The Beach Boys. And now the fact that he's been MIA since Election Day and especially Saturday morning is conspicuous to say the least.

You are right though that since Howie came here and calmed our fears, things have been slow.

Yup that didn't work out well in the end did it.  Also just wanted to add that I hope Mike and all the Trump supporters here feel really awful these days. Your emotional suffering over this is my highest joy. It's what you deserve, and you know it.   :)

It’s extremely disappointing that so many people on here feel obligated to remind conservatives that conservatives are all idiots that need to suffer for their political beliefs. The talk is always about how divisive the republican side is, but the constant derogatory comments about the right are equally divisive. I repeat, I was under the impression that politics was not a topic for the main board.

Do Biden supporters deserve emotional suffering?

If this board is going to continue this crap, I’ll walk myself to the door.

Sounds a little mean spirited and vindictive but could be tongue in cheek.

Tongue in cheek?  If I told someone on here to get coronavirus and die, would it be ok because it could be “tongue in cheek”?

I think Sam was referring to cabinessenceking’s post because it was so unbelievably crass that it couldn’t possibly be for real.

That being said, there have been so many unbelievably rude comments in this thread that clearly aren’t tongue-in-cheek (such as the coronavirus one - though the poster never wished death on the guy, mtaber, may want to edit your post). I hope many who have posted in this thread will be able to one day look back on their posts and feel a morsel of remorse for their comments aimed at fellow human beings.

Every single one of you have brought some kind of informative, comical, and/or good-natured fun to this forum - but man, when it comes to politics it’s like a switch is turned and some of you forget that we are all human beings with thoughts, feelings, reasons for believing the things that we believe, different personalities.

Many of us may disagree on certain things, but please remember that the more we hate our fellow man, the darker the world becomes. I’m not saying you have to roll over and agree with a viewpoint that you legitimately can’t comprehend, but instead of pure hatred perhaps see that not every person who doesn’t share your viewpoint is a completely lost degenerate unworthy of any kind of respect or decency.

To be clear, I never “wished death” on anyone. I said “what if”.  Cabinessence did express delight in the suffering of others. 

My bad, I misread your post...and I didn’t think you wished death on anyone. Someone here did wish coronavirus on another member, which is what I thought you were referring to.

Duplicate post.

People, after 287 years on this board and on the internet in general, it has never *not* been true that politics is NEVER a topic that goes over well on message boards (or Twitter, or Facebook, etc.). Even when people are knowledgeable about the subject and able to engage about it, it usually goes badly. And many aren't knowledgeable enough about it, which obviously doesn't help.

"Trump Supporters", as such, going back to 2015-2016 on this board, have, in my opinion, not tended to be very kind/magnanimous/considerate in "victory", and have also often tended to engage in what I feel are various forms of gaslighting (e.g. "the true bigots are people who shun Trump supporters!", and variations on "please ignore everything about how rude and cruel my political candidate is, basically ignore most everything he actually says, and instead simply believe me when I say we should all be kind and respectful to each other", etc.). Does this all mean a bunch of "in your face losers!" stuff is warranted now that Trump finally lost? That's up to each individual I guess. I think, not surprisingly, Trump supporters are not handling his loss well, and are certainly expecting MUCH MORE compassion than they showed the "losers" back in 2016. But really, the gloating stuff has never helped, certainly not on this board. That kind of stuff one's Facebook or Twitter page where it's kind of a one-way form of communication, I guess it works sometimes better there?

Back to politics vis-a-vis this board, on rare occasions, it kind of *has* to be delved into on this board when stuff happens like Mike doing the Trump gig. It would be nice if everybody could be objective and realize, regardless of your politics, it is a *BAD PR* move to play a Trump gig. Even Trump supporters who actually understand how PR works would admit it.

Separate from that, I wish it was easier for Beach Boys fandom to be honest with itself. It's difficult, because that honesty would probably hurt some feelings or anger folks. I won't go too far into the topic, but one of the reasons BB fandom gets extra ugly extra quickly when politics enter the issue is that it's a weird mixture of demographics. Beach Boys fans skew older, and along with that comes a strain of fan that is of the Trump/Love conservative mindset. This tends to still be the minority of deep, hardcore fandom, but it's a prominent sliver or fandom nonetheless.

To be into the deep recesses of the BB catalog requires an ear more sympathetic to the arts, the liberal arts, etc. Artistic-minded folks tend to skew more liberal.

These two sides clash when politics enters the picture.

And as LOOOOONG time fan who has seen BB fandom butt heads through many administrations, the 2016-2020 timeframe with Trump has been FAR more ugly and gross than in the past. Trump has made politics within the fandom a million times more ugly. There was never this level of vitriol when discussing Obama vs. McCain or Romney, or even in the GW Bush era, or the Clinton era. Prior to Trump, it was usually just a passing reference to the knowledge that Mike and Bruce are relatively staunch conservatives/Republicans, and many fans have found that aspect of the band (including Bush and Reagan events of years gone by that *all* band members participated in, in some cases) to be icky or disappointing. Prior to 2016, this usually was discussed in relatively jovial, humorous ways, perhaps offhandedly occasionally referencing that some fans find the Reagan worship from some band members to be embarrassing, etc.

But as of right now, I don't think there is much more to say as far as Mike's Trump support. I think everybody has made up their minds how grossed out or, I guess, happy ?, they are about Mike doing it. History, and Beach Boys fandom history, will judge Mike's actions accordingly. I don't think much more can be said.

I've heard a few things regarding that Mike Trump fundraiser gig that would perhaps put more of a closed lid on the situation, and hopefully that info will come out. But even if that closed lid is explained to fans, the sliver of folks who think doing the gig was a fine idea won't be swayed.

For any BBs fan who is happy and feels it's totally fine that Mike played the gig… You'll never hear those people be able to honestly respond to the question "if playing a trump fundraiser is fine, then where would you draw the line"? I don't think it's possible for those folks to truly honestly answer that question without sarcasm or avoidance tactics, because it would require some self reflection. It would require them to consider why the "band" supporting a xenophobic person who outright 100% denies systemic racism exists, etc., why somebody as gross as that is somehow OK, but Mike playing a KKK rally might somehow not be OK. It would turn into a shouting match of whataboutism and avoidance within about five seconds.

If half the country is not just opposed, but outraged by Donald Trump, to a level approaching that of outrage they'd have toward racist organizations such as the KKK, etc., it's *obviously* not a good idea for the brand to be associated with something as divisive as that.

It doesn't take long to find folks online who continue to be extremely mad at "The Beach Boys" for having played the gig, and inevitably you'll find more knowledgeable fans trying to explain that "it was really just Mike", but the damage has been done. There will be plenty of people who will associate the "brand" with this Trump garbage, and that is 100% Mike's fault.

It will forever be one of the biggest stains on the legacy of this band. You can put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I don’t believe I have ever said that I’m pro-Trump or anti-Trump. I don’t believe I’ve ever said it’s a great idea for Mike Love to do a Trump benefit. I also don’t believe I’ve ever said that Trump supporters are geniuses and Biden supporters are morons. What I have said is that a great number of people who support Trump do so because he’s not a lifetime politician. Many Americans strongly distrust politicians in general.  Trump basically campaigned with a “drain the swamp” mantra, and a lot of people like the idea of getting away from “politics as usual”. 

Much in the way that some Mike fans are able to Jedi mindtrack themselves into just brushing away and ignoring his decades of narcissistic and objectively bad behavior, so are Trump voters somehow looking the other way while overlooking Trump's narcissistic and objectively HORRIBLE behavior. Sort of how some spouses just ignore abuse going on barely behind closed doors in the house, because who needs to speak up or rock the boat about atrocious division being spread and ZERO empathy from the highest place in the land when they might be getting tax breaks?

Both of those guys sure "drained the swamp", with Trump and Mike removing any/all dissenters from their circles, and having only "yes men" around them.

When Rudy Giuliani did his pathetic press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, across the street from the dildo shop (seriously) and crematorium (seriously), with the dingy PA system looking like a sad unofficial SXSW day party show, I can't be the only person who thought about the parallel image of Mike whoring out the brand name to play some laughable, ridiculously low rent scuzzy venues like bowling alley parking lots, can I?  Both Mike and Trump have no bottom, as the saying goes.

Four Seasons Total Landscaping, you'd better believe it... Surfer's Fool

I’m imagining a parallel universe where Mike Love does a fundraiser for Joe Biden and starts the show with “you ain’t black if you vote for Trump!”

Two words: Mike Love.

Yeah Mike could stand to learn that...you’re right brother

Ok... lock this thread, or Sandbox?

That is the question

Every time the band loses a new fan - and believe me this is a real thing, just read any social media site and see people who are legitimately thinking that the band/brand are Trump supporters as opposed to just being one dude (or one point five dudes) - it becomes sadly relevant, and on topic (related to the band) again.

:(

True. Honestly that’s the only reason why this thread is still open

At the same time, the concert is done, the election is over. The only posts that have been made since the concert took place have had zero relevancy to The Beach Boys and are only bringing more division to the board. I support locking the thread if people are just going to continue being completely intolerant, rude, and disrespectful to fellow posters.

I vote for locking and unpinning the thread, unless it gets moved to the Sandbox.

I agree.