Brian's Stock Continues To Rise

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sheriff, should we reinstate OldSurferDude then, for the same criteria you listed in your post?

To quote The Count, "Well f*** that sideways".

[Nicko1234]

Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?

What smears?

[guitarfool2002]

Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?

What smears?

Why, Pat Smear, of course! 

[Nicko1234]

Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?

What smears?

Why, Pat Smear, of course! 

Certainly haven`t seen any others...

[rab2591]

As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Common friggin sense says that we shouldn't encourage (or ignore) rude behavior towards guests that offer us invaluable insight. And if the rude behavior continues then there should be consequences....telling distinguished members to "get over yourselves" and mocking their knowledge of the band? I honestly don't think Smiley Smile should tolerate that behavior.

[Mikie]

I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

Agree on all counts. I've seen much worse here from the regulars that warranted a banning.  You explained it even better than I did, Octopus Prime. "Emotion" and "inflection" on a message board that can easily be misinterpreted. I understand Job's initial anger, and while he perhaps handled the responses inappropriately which resulted in a public hanging, I think this thing escalated quickly and should have been dropped two or three pages ago - apologies or no apologies. The damage to Job's rep on the board was already done, and it should have been left at his discretion to repair it (or not). Instead, there was a lot of unnecessary piling on, which I think was unwarranted.

[Mikie]

Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past.

You betcha! Within five minutes, I could go find a thread from the recent past where a poster or two shoulda been issued a verbal warning or at least a week's time out. 

[Mikie]

If Job has been banned then that would seem a great shame. He has only ever posted informed and thoughtful posts about the group in the past and is certainly a diehard and knowledgeable fan. This thread is trivial in comparison to what many other posters, myself very probably included, have contributed over the years.

We agree one more time, Nick.

[guitarfool2002]

Job and urbanite, you're too sensitive. There's no bullying going on here. Your initial posts might have been misconstrued or maybe you meant them. You stated your views and someone corrected you, that's all. A few of you guys are so damn defensive.

I made the mistake of wondering who Ray Lawlor was when I first saw his name appear on the board. I asked, "Who is this guy and how come he seems (or portrays himself) to know more than we do? Well, AGD and a couple of others straightened me out and it's now obvious that Ray is as close to an "insider" as we can get, at least to Brian.

So we must respect Ray - otherwise he's likely to bail if we don't give him some respect.

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.

[guitarfool2002]

If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

[The Shift]

Suggest the thread be locked and a veil drawn. Can't even recall the original topic.

[guitarfool2002]

Suggest the thread be locked and a veil drawn. Can't even recall the original topic.

I might agree, but people have some stuff to get off their chest, I think we should let them do it. Let's air all this out and get it in the open, good or bad. The original thread topic had ample opportunity to be "saved" but the choices were made otherwise, so let's use this to clear the air.

[Mikie]

If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

Well, cool heads didn't prevail and you guys went off the deep end. There's no question posters here should follow the rules and respect not only other posters (with special respect to insiders) but I think for the most part we police ourselves when somebody gets out of line. THAT in itself should be enough. But banning someone because they're stubborn and unwilling to apologize for something they supposedly said or didn't say, or made a mistake, is a little extreme. Again, the poster's reputation has already been damaged and run through the Spank Machine more than once. Isn't that enough?

[The Shift]

If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

Well, cool heads didn't prevail and you guys went off the deep end. There's no question posters here should follow the rules and respect not only other posters (with special respect to insiders) but I think for the most part we police ourselves when somebody gets out of line. THAT in itself should be enough. But banning someone because they're stubborn and unwilling to apologize for something they supposedly said or didn't say, or made a mistake, is a little extreme. Again, the poster's reputation has already been damaged and run through the Spank Machine more than once. Isn't that enough?

Agree with this. Job came across as disrespectful but the board's had far worse, and folk have got away with far more. Me included.

But perhaps change the name of the thread to "Thread for greeting stuff off your chest (unless you've been banned already)" or something to show that it's no longer anything to do with Brian's gravy or whatever.

[guitarfool2002]

If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

Well, cool heads didn't prevail and you guys went off the deep end. There's no question posters here should follow the rules and respect not only other posters (with special respect to insiders) but I think for the most part we police ourselves when somebody gets out of line. THAT in itself should be enough. But banning someone because they're stubborn and unwilling to apologize for something they supposedly said or didn't say, or made a mistake, is a little extreme. Again, the poster's reputation has already been damaged and run through the Spank Machine more than once. Isn't that enough?

I actually resent that Mikie, considering I kept a cool head throughout this thing and gave multiple, reasonable opportunities for amends to be made, or even as I already said, for a handshake to be extended to help smooth everything out. And it got thrown back in my face. The board did try to police itself from page one, and it was met with escalating hostility to the point where it reached "point of no return" status. I stepped in to try to smooth it out without "policing" anything or anyone, and me trying to keep a cool head, find a sensible way to patch things up between posters and for the thread in general got me hit with a shitstorm of posts like yours, and honestly, it's not appreciated and not warranted.

Read through the thread again, consider all the factors and the comments that led up to it, and maybe rethink where you're pointing a finger.

Again, your own advice was spot-on, if it had been followed it would not have led up to this and the thread topic would have been back on track.

Seriously, not cool.

[The Shift]

I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.

[guitarfool2002]

I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.

There would be no reason to. That's kind of a silly comment, isn't it? 

[Nicko1234]

To be fair, I think there is still space for some on topic discussion as well. job`s poorly worded question was possibly based on the fact that we have one insider opining that Melinda and Mike`s wife were not responsible for the reunion ending when two other insiders (Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson) have opined that they were. It`s a shame that an interesting topic of discussion like that got lost in the petty squabbling...

[ontor pertawst]

Yeah, we get it. You wanna pit them against each other but nobody seemed interested in doing it when you mentioned it the first time. Maybe you can work it into another thread desperately crying out for insinuations.

[The Shift]

I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.

There would be no reason to. That's kind of a silly comment, isn't it?  

I'm worried about where things are headed next. Seriously…

[Mikie]

I didn't point fingers, GF. Notice I alluded to "you guys" - I wasn't pointing fingers at one individual. It's EVERYONE here. I mean, I think Job got the message loud and clear back on the first or second pages! You clearly explained your position very clearly and in much detail with all variables and attributes covered, GF. Ultimately, as the newly elected moderator, it's your discretion what constitutes a banning (within the guidelines of the board rules of course). As the old saying goes, "I've seen people die for less". Your call, Bud.

Now I'm off to see the wizard......

[Nicko1234]

Yeah, we get it. You wanna pit them against each other but nobody seemed interested in doing it when you mentioned it the first time.

 

I don`t want to pit them against each other at all. I am interested in knowing more about that situation as the break-up has been debated sooooooo much on the board.

The board shouldn`t be about people being against each other whether it is honored guests versus normal posters or insiders versus each other. It should hopefully be about learning more about the group by exchanging information and opinions and this is obviously an area where there is doubt. It may well be that Jon S or Howie have discovered things since posting about this subject which has made them change their original opinions after all...

[ontor pertawst]

Ok, good luck with cracking the case, Columbo.

[Nicko1234]

Ok, good luck with cracking the case, Columbo.

Ok. Let`s none of us ever discuss the end of C50 again eh. 

[ontor pertawst]

I'm sure your unorthodox ways that get results will surely blow it wide open, I say keep hammering away at the witnesses... and if they don't respond... start hitting em with phonebooks. Leaves no marks, an interrogator's dream!

"Just one more thing, Ray..."