What if there were no Stamos?

[SMiLE Brian]

CD, let me get a barf-bag,

[HeyJude]

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....

And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?

Yes, all of the BBs including Brian and Carl participated in some miserable stuff in the 80s and 90s. If, and I stress *IF* we are placing blame in that regard, some goes onto all of the group members including Brian and Carl. Less so on Brian I suppose since he wasn't regularly touring, only made the one appearance on Full House, didn't appear on "SIP" at all, and his most active participation we know of in terms of doing anything with Stamos was relegated to a blurry camcorder video shot in a hotel room in Canada in 1990.

Clearly there is a divide between different types of fans. Some who celebrate their pre-80s output aren't fans of the cheese machine they grew into in the 80s and 90s. Stamos was a part of that, but not the only part. And again, Stamos himself said in an interview that he's very aware of this divide. I think he even at least partially understands it. His comments have been contradictory. He cited "hardcore Brian Wilson fans s***ting on me", but then also admitted he would be annoyed if he saw Scott Baio jump on stage at a concert.

Let me also be clear. The aforementioned "divide" isn't a huge deal that causes daily acrimony among BB fans. But when someone asks a provocative question about Stamos, these divides may be cited.

[HeyJude]

Hey Jude - let's dispense with your assumptions that I was always a fan.  I was an "observer."  And the reason I knew that the BB's were on TV is because my kids told me.  I didn't plop them in front of the screen and watch FH with them.  I had a working mother's duties, like laundry and lunches for the next day.  Two jobs.  They saw the BB's one night and hollered to me to come and watch them with Uncle Jesse.  It was a show that you could let your kids watch without violence. I became a fan when I watched the way in which he showed enormous kindness to special needs kids and adults.  

You think the comparison is silly? As a teen I watched the whole scenario evolve.  And now, "new" evidence that exonerates the work of Pet Sounds  has cropped up. Conveniently.  Not then. They were thrown under the bus by the record company.

Some rock critics are paid to review and they have their favorites.  During the late 60's it was rare to find a favorable review.  And I'd say that FH "exposed" millions of viewers to the music.  Thirty years of global syndication.  In the States, it gets no fewer than four hours a day on Nick, both east and west.  An Uncle Jesse shirt in 2015 is an uncontravertable  indicator of a young market share. Even now.  Especially now.

The argument fails.  

Yes, your "Pet Sounds" comparison strikes me as confused and convoluted at best, and laughable at worst. It implies that a similar "re-assessment" of anything to do with "Summer in Paradise" or something Stamos-related will take place. It seems to imply some sort of parity between the two scenarios. There is none, other than both examples concern the Beach Boys.

I don't know what else to do with continued anecdotes. I know numerous people who think "Full House" is insipid, Stamos a hack, and most everything the Beach Boys did in the 80s and 90s to be sub-par. That doesn't prove anything either.

Stamos's impact on the band can't be measured. It's only his proponents ("millions of new fans!!!!!") trying to make any assertions as to his impact on the band.

I think some industry and press/media folks could offer some insights into why critics find Stamos and his connection to the band execrable. But that's just anecdotal mostly as well, albeit perhaps with more credentials or experience. Maybe.

I've only offered one measure of his clearly *not* having any positive impact on the band in the form of the miserable performance of "SIP." It's possible he *hurt* sales, but I can't prove that, and I don't think that's particularly the case. I think the BBs were passé at the time (again), and it didn't help that the album was a trainwreck in most every way imaginable (and I'm someone who thinks a handful of the songs are catchy!), had little input from Carl and Bruce, less from Al, and none from Brian.

[CenturyDeprived]

Pacific Ocean Stamos (1995) - recorded just after Full House ends its remarkable run.

Tracklisting:

1. Kimmy Gibbler Song

2. What’s Long? (Full House’s 8-Season Run!)

3. Comet Barks at the Moonshine

4. ABC’s TGIF Night

5. Dreaming of Becky

6. Thoughts of Coulier

7. Tanner Time

8. You and DUI

9. Pacific Ocean Stamos

10. Michelle, My Friend

11. Rebecca Romijnbows

12. End of the Show (Full House Gets Cancelled)

[SMiLE Brian]

CD!!!!!!!!!

[filledeplage]

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....

And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?

Yes, all of the BBs including Brian and Carl participated in some miserable stuff in the 80s and 90s. If, and I stress *IF* we are placing blame in that regard, some goes onto all of the group members including Brian and Carl. Less so on Brian I suppose since he wasn't regularly touring, only made the one appearance on Full House, didn't appear on "SIP" at all, and his most active participation we know of in terms of doing anything with Stamos was relegated to a blurry camcorder video shot in a hotel room in Canada in 1990.

Clearly there is a divide between different types of fans. Some who celebrate their pre-80s output aren't fans of the cheese machine they grew into in the 80s and 90s. Stamos was a part of that, but not the only part. And again, Stamos himself said in an interview that he's very aware of this divide. I think he even at least partially understands it. His comments have been contradictory. He cited "hardcore Brian Wilson fans s***ting on me", but then also admitted he would be annoyed if he saw Scott Baio jump on stage at a concert.

Let me also be clear. The aforementioned "divide" isn't a huge deal that causes daily acrimony among BB fans. But when someone asks a provocative question about Stamos, these divides may be cited.

What defies logic for me on this forum is that looking back to the 60's and 70's BB fans were conscious of others who were like minded and looked at the music. They didn't get into these factions.  And I'd bet that even OSD would agree.  If you found anyone who liked the BB music, you tolerated their points of view.  Not here.  And the "revisionist spin" is insufferable.  You weren't a Brian fan or a Dennis fan.  You were a Beach Boys' fan.  There was no faction.  And if you hoped for anything it might be to "see Brian" at least once.  

Social media has made some of this division or factionalized fan base escalate.

http://youtu.be/8jmUNTbGGJM

Hope it copies.  It is from the same month in 1990.

In my opinion, not unlike in politics, Stamos gave "name recognition" for a new fan base.  For some as CD suggested "Forever" opened the door to learning more about Dennis.  And how does that translate? I'm guess that is were the division is. And, it really isn't worth a hill of beans. If you hate him, just say so;  it is just easier than trying to change facts or circumstances.  

[HeyJude]

Here's your album cover:

[SMiLE Brian]

I bet there is one in Mike Love's house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CenturyDeprived]

Here's your album cover:

Holy moly that is sooo perfect. It looks inspired by the SIP artwork (seriously!)

[HeyJude]

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....

And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?

Yes, all of the BBs including Brian and Carl participated in some miserable stuff in the 80s and 90s. If, and I stress *IF* we are placing blame in that regard, some goes onto all of the group members including Brian and Carl. Less so on Brian I suppose since he wasn't regularly touring, only made the one appearance on Full House, didn't appear on "SIP" at all, and his most active participation we know of in terms of doing anything with Stamos was relegated to a blurry camcorder video shot in a hotel room in Canada in 1990.

Clearly there is a divide between different types of fans. Some who celebrate their pre-80s output aren't fans of the cheese machine they grew into in the 80s and 90s. Stamos was a part of that, but not the only part. And again, Stamos himself said in an interview that he's very aware of this divide. I think he even at least partially understands it. His comments have been contradictory. He cited "hardcore Brian Wilson fans s***ting on me", but then also admitted he would be annoyed if he saw Scott Baio jump on stage at a concert.

Let me also be clear. The aforementioned "divide" isn't a huge deal that causes daily acrimony among BB fans. But when someone asks a provocative question about Stamos, these divides may be cited.

What defies logic for me on this forum is that looking back to the 60's and 70's BB fans were conscious of others who were like minded and looked at the music. They didn't get into these factions.  And I'd bet that even OSD would agree.  If you found anyone who liked the BB music, you tolerated their points of view.  Not here.  And the "revisionist spin" is insufferable.  You weren't a Brian fan or a Dennis fan.  You were a Beach Boys' fan.  There was no faction.  And if you hoped for anything it might be to "see Brian" at least once.  

Social media has made some of this division or factionalized fan base escalate.

http://youtu.be/8jmUNTbGGJM

Hope it copies.  It is from the same month in 1990.

In my opinion, not unlike in politics, Stamos gave "name recognition" for a new fan base.  For some as CD suggested "Forever" opened the door to learning more about Dennis.  And how does that translate? I'm guess that is were the division is. And, it really isn't worth a hill of beans. If you hate him, just say so;  it is just easier than trying to change facts or circumstances.  

Who is trying to change facts? The only "fact" I've cited is that "Summer in Paradise" is the band's worst-selling, lowest-charting original studio album of their career. A fact which has been continually ignored by you.

I don't think anyone here "hates" Stamos. They simply don't prefer his actual musical connections to the Beach Boys.

I could offer the same sort of retort: If you like him so much and want to ignore the artistic (and commercial) low point he contributed to with the band, then just say so.

[CenturyDeprived]

Pacific Ocean Stamos (1995) - recorded just after Full House ends its remarkable run.

Tracklisting:

1. Kimmy Gibbler Song

2. What’s Long? (Full House’s 8-Season Run!)

3. Comet Barks at the Moonshine

4. ABC’s TGIF Night

5. Dreaming of Becky

6. Thoughts of Coulier

7. Tanner Time

8. You and DUI

9. Pacific Ocean Stamos

10. Michelle, My Friend

11. Rebecca Romijnbows

12. End of the Show (Full House Gets Cancelled)

You know, I almost would have preferred the band did backing vocals on this project in 1995/1996, as opposed to Stars and Stripes.

[filledeplage]

Hey Jude - let's dispense with your assumptions that I was always a fan.  I was an "observer."  And the reason I knew that the BB's were on TV is because my kids told me.  I didn't plop them in front of the screen and watch FH with them.  I had a working mother's duties, like laundry and lunches for the next day.  Two jobs.  They saw the BB's one night and hollered to me to come and watch them with Uncle Jesse.  It was a show that you could let your kids watch without violence. I became a fan when I watched the way in which he showed enormous kindness to special needs kids and adults.  

You think the comparison is silly? As a teen I watched the whole scenario evolve.  And now, "new" evidence that exonerates the work of Pet Sounds  has cropped up. Conveniently.  Not then. They were thrown under the bus by the record company.

Some rock critics are paid to review and they have their favorites.  During the late 60's it was rare to find a favorable review.  And I'd say that FH "exposed" millions of viewers to the music.  Thirty years of global syndication.  In the States, it gets no fewer than four hours a day on Nick, both east and west.  An Uncle Jesse shirt in 2015 is an uncontravertable  indicator of a young market share. Even now.  Especially now.

The argument fails.  

Yes, your "Pet Sounds" comparison strikes me as confused and convoluted at best, and laughable at worst. It implies that a similar "re-assessment" of anything to do with "Summer in Paradise" or something Stamos-related will take place. It seems to imply some sort of parity between the two scenarios. There is none, other than both examples concern the Beach Boys.

I don't know what else to do with continued anecdotes. I know numerous people who think "Full House" is insipid, Stamos a hack, and most everything the Beach Boys did in the 80s and 90s to be sub-par. That doesn't prove anything either.

Stamos's impact on the band can't be measured. It's only his proponents ("millions of new fans!!!!!") trying to make any assertions as to his impact on the band.

I think some industry and press/media folks could offer some insights into why critics find Stamos and his connection to the band execrable. But that's just anecdotal mostly as well, albeit perhaps with more credentials or experience. Maybe.

I've only offered one measure of his clearly *not* having any positive impact on the band in the form of the miserable performance of "SIP." It's possible he *hurt* sales, but I can't prove that, and I don't think that's particularly the case. I think the BBs were passé at the time (again), and it didn't help that the album was a trainwreck in most every way imaginable (and I'm someone who thinks a handful of the songs are catchy!), had little input from Carl and Bruce, less from Al, and none from Brian.

No, the analogy is a déjà vu.  It is a "this too, shall pass."

If we live wondering and worrying about what others think, it is a miserable life.  It was new technology.  They took their shot.   And those industry people come and go with the tides, making a living on the talents of others.  The real artists.

You are railing against Stamos' success.  I like SIP because it has a few songs I like a lot, and because it is one of the last works Carl was involved in.  If you have a problem with that...well, I have no response. Lahaina Aloha is brilliant.

[HeyJude]

Everyone knows about the "Paley Sessions", but much less is known about the "Stamos Sessions."

Don Was says he wishes he would have captured this for a follow-up documentary.....

[CenturyDeprived]

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....

And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?

Yes, all of the BBs including Brian and Carl participated in some miserable stuff in the 80s and 90s. If, and I stress *IF* we are placing blame in that regard, some goes onto all of the group members including Brian and Carl. Less so on Brian I suppose since he wasn't regularly touring, only made the one appearance on Full House, didn't appear on "SIP" at all, and his most active participation we know of in terms of doing anything with Stamos was relegated to a blurry camcorder video shot in a hotel room in Canada in 1990.

Clearly there is a divide between different types of fans. Some who celebrate their pre-80s output aren't fans of the cheese machine they grew into in the 80s and 90s. Stamos was a part of that, but not the only part. And again, Stamos himself said in an interview that he's very aware of this divide. I think he even at least partially understands it. His comments have been contradictory. He cited "hardcore Brian Wilson fans s***ting on me", but then also admitted he would be annoyed if he saw Scott Baio jump on stage at a concert.

Let me also be clear. The aforementioned "divide" isn't a huge deal that causes daily acrimony among BB fans. But when someone asks a provocative question about Stamos, these divides may be cited.

What defies logic for me on this forum is that looking back to the 60's and 70's BB fans were conscious of others who were like minded and looked at the music. They didn't get into these factions.  And I'd bet that even OSD would agree.  If you found anyone who liked the BB music, you tolerated their points of view.  Not here.  And the "revisionist spin" is insufferable.  You weren't a Brian fan or a Dennis fan.  You were a Beach Boys' fan.  There was no faction.  And if you hoped for anything it might be to "see Brian" at least once.  

Social media has made some of this division or factionalized fan base escalate.
 

I think the reason for less "factions" back then is that there was far less transparency about the goings-on regarding the band and bandmembers back then, pre-internet, compared to today.  There are a heck of a lot of things that the band and individual band members would have gotten FAR more flak for if they happened today.

If people knew then what they know now, I think that not only would the deeper divide have started earlier, but I think that history would have turned out quite differently, because public opinion is a powerful thing.

[filledeplage]

Everyone knows about the "Paley Sessions", but much less is known about the "Stamos Sessions."

Don Was says he wishes he would have captured this for a follow-up documentary.....

Great photo.  Stamos looks as though he is in awe.  I like it.  Thanks!  

[filledeplage]

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....

And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?

Yes, all of the BBs including Brian and Carl participated in some miserable stuff in the 80s and 90s. If, and I stress *IF* we are placing blame in that regard, some goes onto all of the group members including Brian and Carl. Less so on Brian I suppose since he wasn't regularly touring, only made the one appearance on Full House, didn't appear on "SIP" at all, and his most active participation we know of in terms of doing anything with Stamos was relegated to a blurry camcorder video shot in a hotel room in Canada in 1990.

Clearly there is a divide between different types of fans. Some who celebrate their pre-80s output aren't fans of the cheese machine they grew into in the 80s and 90s. Stamos was a part of that, but not the only part. And again, Stamos himself said in an interview that he's very aware of this divide. I think he even at least partially understands it. His comments have been contradictory. He cited "hardcore Brian Wilson fans s***ting on me", but then also admitted he would be annoyed if he saw Scott Baio jump on stage at a concert.

Let me also be clear. The aforementioned "divide" isn't a huge deal that causes daily acrimony among BB fans. But when someone asks a provocative question about Stamos, these divides may be cited.

What defies logic for me on this forum is that looking back to the 60's and 70's BB fans were conscious of others who were like minded and looked at the music. They didn't get into these factions.  And I'd bet that even OSD would agree.  If you found anyone who liked the BB music, you tolerated their points of view.  Not here.  And the "revisionist spin" is insufferable.  You weren't a Brian fan or a Dennis fan.  You were a Beach Boys' fan.  There was no faction.  And if you hoped for anything it might be to "see Brian" at least once.  

Social media has made some of this division or factionalized fan base escalate.
 

I think the reason for less "factions" back then is that there was far less transparency about the goings-on regarding the band and bandmembers back then, pre-internet, compared to today.  There are a heck of a lot of things that the band and individual band members would have gotten FAR more flak for if they happened today.

If people knew then what they know now, I think that not only would the deeper divide have started earlier, but I think that history would have turned out quite differently, because public opinion is a powerful thing.

Yes, it likely would have been very different.  Murry would never have gotten away with that abuse.  Capitol would not have gotten away with non-promotion and promotion of the band post Pet Sounds as a "surf band" from the early 60's. 

The royalties would have likely been appropriately apportioned.  Landy would likely have gone to jail.

[KDS]

Personally, I think SIP would've been a dud with or without the John Stamos track. 

Especially when you consider the musical climate of the time.  It was 1992.  Grunge was becoming the next new time.  Dreary and dark stuff.  Rap was really starting to break into the mainstream.  The record buying public at large wasn't interesting in carefree summertime stuff from a bunch of old guys.  If people wanted carefree music, they'd turn to Billy Ray Cyrus that year. 

I also think it's kinda cool that Mike, Al, Carl, Brian, and Bruce show up on TV Land once every three or four weeks. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.

I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.

The first album released during Full House's popular run was Still Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.

“Still Cruisin’” went gold because it had “Kokomo” on it more than anything else. Its connection to “Full House” was nil. The Beach Boys had appeared on other TV shows in some capacity or another in the nearly full year between their first appearance on “Full House” and the release of “Still Cruisin’.” If the Beach Boys had been regular cast members on the show, then I’d buy that any subsequent release of theirs would be fueled by the TV show. A cameo appearance or two, not so much.

I also don’t buy any connection between the ’93 boxed set and “Full House.” How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result? The GV boxed set sold as well as it did because it was filled with BB hits. It was the band’s first major boxed set released of that nature in the CD era. It had “Smile” material on it, and other outtakes.

As far as “SIP”, it’s kind of semantics as to whether a non-charting, worst-selling album performance was a case of Stamos not helping, or not helping enough. If Stamos had any impact on sales, it was *measurably* so poor that one could argue The Fat Boys brought the Beach Boys more fans that Stamos did. “Stars and Stripes” charted better (#101 in the Top 200, and #12 on the Country Albums chart). This only matters if we’re trying to characterize how much Stamos *helped* the band’s career or popularity or number of fans. By the only measures we have available (anecdotes about baby boomers going to Mike’s shows and getting all hot and bothered when Stamos straps on his guitar don’t really count; Stamos is never the selling point of a “Beach Boys” show, and his appearance is never guaranteed), Stamos in his prime couldn’t give the Beach Boys even enough of a “boost” off the back of his popular sitcom and numerous BB and “Forever” cameos to even make “Summer in Paradise” one of the top *200* albums in the country for even a single week. Think about that. During the prime of “Full House”, there were at least *two hundred* albums that people were more interested in.

Hey Jude - the GV box set was long overdue.  And, you're correct about the Smile tracks.  Discs 3 and 4 are outstanding in the same way that discs 5 and 6 are outstanding on MIC, also long overdue.

Stamos?  They offered one another "reciprocal opportunities" and from a business standpoint, it was a win-win for both. The BB's had a chance to build a new and a very young audience, and Stamos got a chance to be a "guest" on the road.  It gave him a platform outside of FH to interact with fans, in a different forum.  And them to be part of a crossover demographic.  But it is hilarious to me to see a Stamos thread crop up when there is a Mike interview debate.  Predicable.  Every time.  

I think the degree to which he helped is simply being vastly overstated, and also ignores the negative impact he has on the band’s image in the eyes of some fans (not to the degree of no longer being fans, just the aforementioned blight). That the band released their worst-selling, lowest charting studio album of their careers at the height of the popularity of Stamos and Full House vastly undercuts any arguments that he gained the band “millions of fans.”

Surely, back in 1992, at least 10 or 20,000 of those *millions* of new fans would have shelled out the money for the new album. I think Stamos got millions of eyes and ears *on* the BBs and their music for short spurts of time. That’s very different from gaining millions of actual fans (to say nothing of sales). Same thing with BB appearances on the Tonight Show, or Solid Gold, or American Bandstand. If anything, I would assume a more music industry-oriented show like “American Bandstand” gained actual additional fans and sales for the band more than Stamos or “Full House.”

You're not getting the point, which is evident by your limiting Stamos' influence to his performing "Forever" on one episode of Full House and his connection with the worst album in the Beach Boys' history.

First of all, John Stamos had a couple of TV shows. I remember taping the episode of You Again with the Beach Boys performing "California Dreamin'" and "Surfin' U.S.A." - and memorizing it! But, regarding Full House, there were several reasons that people watched Full House. Maybe they thought Lori Loughlin was hot, or Candace Cameron was cute, or the Olsen twins were adorable, or Bob Sagat was funny, or maybe because the show was good family entertainment. The audience's attraction is not limited to John Stamos. Multiply that by the number of Beach Boys' songs performed on those shows. Now mulitply that by thirty years of continuous broadcasting of the show(s) worldwide. You are cutting things off 25 years ago. The influence is still ongoing today. It wasn't just limited to one Stamos performance of "Forever" back in 1992. All it takes is/was for one of those songs - one time - to "hook" somebody. Why is that so hard to fathom? The Beach Boys' music does that to people.

And, it wasn't that just one song or performance directly resulted in a potential fan purchasing SIP or Still Cruisin' or the boxed set. But, it surely led them there. Use "Forever" as an example. So somebody hears "Forever" on Full House and looks into the song. They see that it appears on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2fer, but they don't know any of the other songs. Same with SIP. However, they also see that "Forever" appears on the boxed set, and hey, they heard of  "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Good Vibrations" and several others, and Amazon just happens to running a sale on boxed sets. Bingo...sale! And a new fan is born.

This is especially relevant with downloading and iTunes and the like. Some kid is watching Full House, hears "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School", likes it, goes on iTunes and sees all of these Beach Boys tunes with familiar titles, and the next thing you know, they not only purchased "Kokomo", but ten other Beach Boys' tunes. And, yet another new fan is born.

Why? Because they saw or heard a Beach Boys' on a John Stamos-related TV show. Stamos might not have been the one performing it, he might not have been the reason they were even watching the show in the first place, but he's the one who brought the Beach Boys' music to the show. And, you know what I don't understand, Hey Jude? Why people aren't thanking Stamos for it, instead of finding every way possible to criticize him. Actually, I DO know why people on this board are critical of Stamos. Sorry for the rhetorical question.

[SMiLE Brian]

Using your logic, SIP would have outsold Kokomo.

[HeyJude]

You're not getting the point, which is evident by your limiting Stamos' influence to his performing "Forever" on one episode of Full House and his connection with the worst album in the Beach Boys' history.

First of all, John Stamos had a couple of TV shows. I remember taping the episode of You Again with the Beach Boys performing "California Dreamin'" and "Surfin' U.S.A." - and memorizing it! But, regarding Full House, there were several reasons that people watched Full House. Maybe they thought Lori Loughlin was hot, or Candace Cameron was cute, or the Olsen twins were adorable, or Bob Sagat was funny, or maybe because the show was good family entertainment. The audience's attraction is not limited to John Stamos. Multiply that by the number of Beach Boys' songs performed on those shows. Now mulitply that by thirty years of continuous broadcasting of the show(s) worldwide. It wasn't just limited to one Stamos performance of "Forever" back in 1992. All it takes is/was for one of those songs - one time - to "hook" somebody. Why is that so hard to fathom? The Beach Boys' music does that to people.

And, it wasn't that just one song or performance directly resulted in a potential fan purchasing SIP or Still Cruisin' or the boxed set. But, it surely led them there. Use "Forever" as an example. So somebody hears "Forever" on Full House and looks into the song. They see that it appears on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2fer, but they don't know any of the other songs. Same with SIP. However, they also see that "Forever" appears on the boxed set, and hey, they heard of  "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Good Vibrations" and several others, and Amazon just happens to running a sale on boxed sets. Bingo...sale! And a new fan is born.

This is especially relevant with downloading and iTunes and the like. Some kid is watching Full House, hears "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School", likes it, goes on iTunes and sees all of these Beach Boys tunes with familiar titles, and the next thing you know, they not only purchased "Kokomo", but ten other Beach Boys' tunes. And, yet another new fan is born.

Why? Because they saw or heard a Beach Boys' on a John Stamos-related TV show. Stamos might not have been the one performing it, he might not have been the reason they were even watching the show in the first place, but he's the one who brought the Beach Boys' music to the show. And, you know what I don't understand, Hey Jude? Why people aren't thanking Stamos for it, instead of finding every way possible to criticize him. Actually, I DO know why people on this board are critical of Stamos. Sorry for the rhetorical question.

The scenarios you describe sound totally plausible. I have no reason to believe those scenarios didn’t happen. I’ve never disagreed with that. I just think the magnitude of it is being overstated, and conveniently so considering it can’t be measured. The chain of events you describe is something that sounds totally plausible when we’re talking about anecdotes, and sounds rather implausible if we’re talking on a massive scale.

Again, there are all sorts of tangents and influences that turn people on to a band. Stamos and “Full House” was one of them. McCartney was another. American Graffiti. Maybe some Nate Ruess fans are now into the BBs, and so on. There are a million examples.

Considering his “impact” on the group in terms of fans is not quantifiable, and that many BB fans are not fans of his ego-driven, gate-crashing presence on various BB projects (though mostly the live shows), and that the “Full House” association does have some negative connotations to some folks in some aspects, I think an argument can be made that while Stamos has surely netted more fans that he has literally discouraged to the point of no longer being a fan, his overall presence in the BB world as he himself has established it is a net negative to the band and its legacy.

*That’s* why I don’t think fans need to be lining up thanking him. We shouldn’t be lining up to attack him either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to debate those who are, in my opinion, trying to overstate the “millions of fans” he has brought on board.

[CenturyDeprived]

You're not getting the point, which is evident by your limiting Stamos' influence to his performing "Forever" on one episode of Full House and his connection with the worst album in the Beach Boys' history.

First of all, John Stamos had a couple of TV shows. I remember taping the episode of You Again with the Beach Boys performing "California Dreamin'" and "Surfin' U.S.A." - and memorizing it! But, regarding Full House, there were several reasons that people watched Full House. Maybe they thought Lori Loughlin was hot, or Candace Cameron was cute, or the Olsen twins were adorable, or Bob Sagat was funny, or maybe because the show was good family entertainment. The audience's attraction is not limited to John Stamos. Multiply that by the number of Beach Boys' songs performed on those shows. Now mulitply that by thirty years of continuous broadcasting of the show(s) worldwide. It wasn't just limited to one Stamos performance of "Forever" back in 1992. All it takes is/was for one of those songs - one time - to "hook" somebody. Why is that so hard to fathom? The Beach Boys' music does that to people.

And, it wasn't that just one song or performance directly resulted in a potential fan purchasing SIP or Still Cruisin' or the boxed set. But, it surely led them there. Use "Forever" as an example. So somebody hears "Forever" on Full House and looks into the song. They see that it appears on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2fer, but they don't know any of the other songs. Same with SIP. However, they also see that "Forever" appears on the boxed set, and hey, they heard of  "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Good Vibrations" and several others, and Amazon just happens to running a sale on boxed sets. Bingo...sale! And a new fan is born.

This is especially relevant with downloading and iTunes and the like. Some kid is watching Full House, hears "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School", likes it, goes on iTunes and sees all of these Beach Boys tunes with familiar titles, and the next thing you know, they not only purchased "Kokomo", but ten other Beach Boys' tunes. And, yet another new fan is born.

Why? Because they saw or heard a Beach Boys' on a John Stamos-related TV show. Stamos might not have been the one performing it, he might not have been the reason they were even watching the show in the first place, but he's the one who brought the Beach Boys' music to the show. And, you know what I don't understand, Hey Jude? Why people aren't thanking Stamos for it, instead of finding every way possible to criticize him. Actually, I DO know why people on this board are critical of Stamos. Sorry for the rhetorical question.

The scenarios you describe sound totally plausible. I have no reason to believe those scenarios didn’t happen. I’ve never disagreed with that. I just think the magnitude of it is being overstated, and conveniently so considering it can’t be measured. The chain of events you describe is something that sounds totally plausible when we’re talking about anecdotes, and sounds rather implausible if we’re talking on a massive scale.

Again, there are all sorts of tangents and influences that turn people on to a band. Stamos and “Full House” was one of them. McCartney was another. American Graffiti. Maybe some Nate Ruess fans are now into the BBs, and so on. There are a million examples.

Considering his “impact” on the group in terms of fans is not quantifiable, and that many BB fans are not fans of his ego-driven, gate-crashing presence on various BB projects (though mostly the live shows), and that the “Full House” association does have some negative connotations to some folks in some aspects, I think an argument can be made that while Stamos has surely netted more fans that he has literally discouraged to the point of no longer being a fan, his overall presence in the BB world as he himself has established it is a net negative to the band and its legacy.

*That’s* why I don’t think fans need to be lining up thanking him. We shouldn’t be lining up to attack him either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to debate those who are, in my opinion, trying to overstate the “millions of fans” he has brought on board.

I can state, without question, that I absolutely have met several people who, when I tell them about my BB fandom, they immediately dismiss it (and their reasoning drifts into mentioning Full House!) So for better or worse, the mega-cheesy connections with that show are without a doubt a factor in some people dismissing the band.  

That is not a negligible occurrence. It's legitimately a problem, at least on some level. We can debate *how* big a problem it is, but it cannot be qualified as a non-issue.

It's not like Davy Jones appearing once on a single Brady Bunch episode either... the BBs appeared many times on Full House, and kept reminding the world of the connection to Full House via the actor from the show, over and over again.  One can say "well, those people are snobs", but for better or worse, they were turned off (and understandably so, as I would probably be turned off by a famous band if I wasn't familiar with their deeper cuts, and kept being reminded of their repeated, incessant connections to The Wiggles, for example).

So lets not fool ourselves into thinking that there isn't fallout and damage that happened (and continues to happen) because of the never ending Stamos connection. Full House is considered nearly on par with The Wiggles by many people, and it can be too big a cheesy roadblock for a good number of people to look past. Their loss, yes. But at the same time, it's Mike's fault for wanting the band's connection to a mediocre actor (though a nice guy, I'm sure) and his crappy show to go on and on and on and on. The connection is pimped out to the degree of PROMOTIONAL PHOTOS being taken! It's lunacy!

But hey - if it keeps away the "snobby" contingent of fans, that may in fact be what Mike (and Bruce) desire - the "normal" crowd. Stamos may in fact inadvertently function as hipster repellent.

All that said, I don't have any big issue with the guy, he doesn't make me cringe at this point, I just am bugged that other people are more dismissive of the band. Once you are a superfan and can legitimately find some pleasure in songs like Problem Child, Stamos is just par for the course.

[Sheriff John Stone]

You're not getting the point, which is evident by your limiting Stamos' influence to his performing "Forever" on one episode of Full House and his connection with the worst album in the Beach Boys' history.

First of all, John Stamos had a couple of TV shows. I remember taping the episode of You Again with the Beach Boys performing "California Dreamin'" and "Surfin' U.S.A." - and memorizing it! But, regarding Full House, there were several reasons that people watched Full House. Maybe they thought Lori Loughlin was hot, or Candace Cameron was cute, or the Olsen twins were adorable, or Bob Sagat was funny, or maybe because the show was good family entertainment. The audience's attraction is not limited to John Stamos. Multiply that by the number of Beach Boys' songs performed on those shows. Now mulitply that by thirty years of continuous broadcasting of the show(s) worldwide. It wasn't just limited to one Stamos performance of "Forever" back in 1992. All it takes is/was for one of those songs - one time - to "hook" somebody. Why is that so hard to fathom? The Beach Boys' music does that to people.

And, it wasn't that just one song or performance directly resulted in a potential fan purchasing SIP or Still Cruisin' or the boxed set. But, it surely led them there. Use "Forever" as an example. So somebody hears "Forever" on Full House and looks into the song. They see that it appears on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2fer, but they don't know any of the other songs. Same with SIP. However, they also see that "Forever" appears on the boxed set, and hey, they heard of  "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Good Vibrations" and several others, and Amazon just happens to running a sale on boxed sets. Bingo...sale! And a new fan is born.

This is especially relevant with downloading and iTunes and the like. Some kid is watching Full House, hears "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School", likes it, goes on iTunes and sees all of these Beach Boys tunes with familiar titles, and the next thing you know, they not only purchased "Kokomo", but ten other Beach Boys' tunes. And, yet another new fan is born.

Why? Because they saw or heard a Beach Boys' on a John Stamos-related TV show. Stamos might not have been the one performing it, he might not have been the reason they were even watching the show in the first place, but he's the one who brought the Beach Boys' music to the show. And, you know what I don't understand, Hey Jude? Why people aren't thanking Stamos for it, instead of finding every way possible to criticize him. Actually, I DO know why people on this board are critical of Stamos. Sorry for the rhetorical question.

The scenarios you describe sound totally plausible. I have no reason to believe those scenarios didn’t happen. I’ve never disagreed with that. I just think the magnitude of it is being overstated, and conveniently so considering it can’t be measured. The chain of events you describe is something that sounds totally plausible when we’re talking about anecdotes, and sounds rather implausible if we’re talking on a massive scale.

Again, there are all sorts of tangents and influences that turn people on to a band. Stamos and “Full House” was one of them. McCartney was another. American Graffiti. Maybe some Nate Ruess fans are now into the BBs, and so on. There are a million examples.

Considering his “impact” on the group in terms of fans is not quantifiable, and that many BB fans are not fans of his ego-driven, gate-crashing presence on various BB projects (though mostly the live shows), and that the “Full House” association does have some negative connotations to some folks in some aspects, I think an argument can be made that while Stamos has surely netted more fans that he has literally discouraged to the point of no longer being a fan, his overall presence in the BB world as he himself has established it is a net negative to the band and its legacy.

*That’s* why I don’t think fans need to be lining up thanking him. We shouldn’t be lining up to attack him either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to debate those who are, in my opinion, trying to overstate the “millions of fans” he has brought on board.

My last word on the subject as I have nothing else to add and I have to get the kids ready for trick or treating...

I did not say/write "millions of fans". I wrote "over a million".

[CenturyDeprived]

You're not getting the point, which is evident by your limiting Stamos' influence to his performing "Forever" on one episode of Full House and his connection with the worst album in the Beach Boys' history.

First of all, John Stamos had a couple of TV shows. I remember taping the episode of You Again with the Beach Boys performing "California Dreamin'" and "Surfin' U.S.A." - and memorizing it! But, regarding Full House, there were several reasons that people watched Full House. Maybe they thought Lori Loughlin was hot, or Candace Cameron was cute, or the Olsen twins were adorable, or Bob Sagat was funny, or maybe because the show was good family entertainment. The audience's attraction is not limited to John Stamos. Multiply that by the number of Beach Boys' songs performed on those shows. Now mulitply that by thirty years of continuous broadcasting of the show(s) worldwide. It wasn't just limited to one Stamos performance of "Forever" back in 1992. All it takes is/was for one of those songs - one time - to "hook" somebody. Why is that so hard to fathom? The Beach Boys' music does that to people.

And, it wasn't that just one song or performance directly resulted in a potential fan purchasing SIP or Still Cruisin' or the boxed set. But, it surely led them there. Use "Forever" as an example. So somebody hears "Forever" on Full House and looks into the song. They see that it appears on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2fer, but they don't know any of the other songs. Same with SIP. However, they also see that "Forever" appears on the boxed set, and hey, they heard of  "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Good Vibrations" and several others, and Amazon just happens to running a sale on boxed sets. Bingo...sale! And a new fan is born.

This is especially relevant with downloading and iTunes and the like. Some kid is watching Full House, hears "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School", likes it, goes on iTunes and sees all of these Beach Boys tunes with familiar titles, and the next thing you know, they not only purchased "Kokomo", but ten other Beach Boys' tunes. And, yet another new fan is born.

Why? Because they saw or heard a Beach Boys' on a John Stamos-related TV show. Stamos might not have been the one performing it, he might not have been the reason they were even watching the show in the first place, but he's the one who brought the Beach Boys' music to the show. And, you know what I don't understand, Hey Jude? Why people aren't thanking Stamos for it, instead of finding every way possible to criticize him. Actually, I DO know why people on this board are critical of Stamos. Sorry for the rhetorical question.

The scenarios you describe sound totally plausible. I have no reason to believe those scenarios didn’t happen. I’ve never disagreed with that. I just think the magnitude of it is being overstated, and conveniently so considering it can’t be measured. The chain of events you describe is something that sounds totally plausible when we’re talking about anecdotes, and sounds rather implausible if we’re talking on a massive scale.

Again, there are all sorts of tangents and influences that turn people on to a band. Stamos and “Full House” was one of them. McCartney was another. American Graffiti. Maybe some Nate Ruess fans are now into the BBs, and so on. There are a million examples.

Considering his “impact” on the group in terms of fans is not quantifiable, and that many BB fans are not fans of his ego-driven, gate-crashing presence on various BB projects (though mostly the live shows), and that the “Full House” association does have some negative connotations to some folks in some aspects, I think an argument can be made that while Stamos has surely netted more fans that he has literally discouraged to the point of no longer being a fan, his overall presence in the BB world as he himself has established it is a net negative to the band and its legacy.

*That’s* why I don’t think fans need to be lining up thanking him. We shouldn’t be lining up to attack him either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to debate those who are, in my opinion, trying to overstate the “millions of fans” he has brought on board.

My last word on the subject as I have nothing else to add and I have to get the kids ready for trick or treating...

I did not say/write "millions of fans". I wrote "over a million".

 

[bossaroo]

having Stamos around only contributes to the farce that is the touring band.

the current situation of Mike & Bruce performing as The Beach Boys with frequent Stamos appearances would be akin to Paul and Ringo performing as The Beatles with frequent Joey Lawrence appearances. it wouldn't sit well with most people, whether they're fans or not. for damn good reason.

[chaki]

anyone have that mike love "let's get a vegetarian pizza" gif handy? if it weren't for stamos we wouldnt have that gif. for that, i thank him