*Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread

[urbanite]

If Brian Wilson's next album is great, on the level of Lucky Old Sun, I think there's a good chance another Beach Boys' album gets made.  

[guitarfool2002]

Can anyone think of a similar project by another artist? By which I mean, it's not a set of duets only. It's not the artist singing all the songs himself. It's not the artist having guest singers on all tracks, only some.  Maybe it's something that's never been done . Or perhaps it has, I'm just not aware of it.

An interesting point. Offhand, I'd suggest some of the latter-day Jerry Lee Lewis records. He has guests on nearly every track, but often times they're only contributing backing vocals or instrumental parts. Not a huge amount of new material on them, though.

Jimmy Webb's last three albums are just what we are discussing here.  Jimmy Webb & the Webb Brothers - Cottonwood Farm(2009) - a family affair with his sons and relatives, including a lead vocal from his dad.

On Just Across the River (2010) many of his friends dropped into the sessions to support Jimmy's lead vocals - some were duets.  He did a song on this I had been hoping he would do since I first heard it on an Arlo Guthrie album, "Oklahoma Nights."

Same format for Still Within the Sound of My Voice (2013) - featuring one "newer" artist (Rumer), and of course Brian.  Maybe he got the idea from hanging out with Jimmy, and not from having it forced on him by handlers and whatnot.

All had a mix of new and old songs, many that he had not recorded before.  All have been well received by fans and critics.  3 albums in 4 years by an old guy, still in his prime.  I have faith Brian could do that too.

Carlos Santana, one of the biggest "comebacks" of a 60's era artist of them all. And what did he do? He had all kinds of "modern" artists come in with their original songs, with their lead voices on those songs, and for what it's worth what Carlos himself did amounted to overdubbing guitar solos and lead guitar fills over those tracks.

Two of the most well known: "Smooth" which was written and sung by Rob Thomas, and "Game Of Love" which was written and sung by Michelle Branch. *Massive* crossover hits, radio hits that were on the charts and in video rotation when they were new, and they're still played on many AC radio stations and mainstream rock stations.

And in that case, I'd ask any Carlos Santana fans here...did it matter to *his* fans how those outside artists were chosen, or how they appeared on a "Santana" album?

Did it matter that the song "Smooth" was written and sung by the guy from Matchbox 20, and Carlos had little or nothing to do with the song besides overdubbing guitar fills and solos on top of what could be called a solo Rob Thomas track?

Yet it's a Santana album that sold in the millions and "crossed over" into several genres and charts.

So why is it such a stretch again for Brian Wilson to do something where he's writing, producing, arranging, and singing on a majority of songs on a "Brian Wilson" album featuring guest vocalists?

Santana did it, and made a shitload of money and new fans in the process. Not much wrong with that, I'd say.

[guitarfool2002]

Frank Sinatra's "Duets"...another massive selling album project. I'm not really a fan, but essentially Frank was rarely if ever at all in the same studio with his "duet" partners recording together, yet the thing sold in the millions and also helped put Frank back in the music spotlight for something "new", which was basically an album of covers anyway...and a duets album where the two musicians dueting didn't even step in the same studio to record.

Again, my opinion of it is strictly personal taste, and I'm not a big fan of hearing him with Pavarotti and whoever else, but there are fans who love that album. And again, it sold, despite the whole thing being somewhat of a publicity gimmick because, again, the duets were long-distance and cobbled together by engineers.

I remember Tony Bennett also released performances with KD Lang and other "modern" singers, not to mention the genius idea of him going on MTV Unplugged and basically doing his usual set but featuring some of the younger generation of singers along with him. It literally put him back on the map, made him "hip" again to a whole generation of listeners, and his days of being known as a nostalgia act doing "San Francisco" with the Ohio Pops at Christmas were over. He was current.

And Tony sharing the spotlight with singers half his age didn't seem to rile up his fan base as much as Brian among the half-dozen or so here who continue to harp on it. Do you assume Tony owned a shelf full of Elvis Costello albums or even KD Lang albums when they appeared on that stage with him for Unplugged? Or do we assume Tony *did* while Brian *did not*, or maybe that Tony had been into Elvis Costello and would go 'round humming the organ riff to "Pump It Up" while Brian had little clue who he was singing with, or that even worse he had no say in the selection process and just rolled with the punches?

So the "duets" concept is good, if and when we assume the artist whose name is on the album is beyond reproach. But when Brian does it,...oh man, trouble ahead.

But pairing Yoko Ono with Questlove or Lenny Kravitz or Cornelius...Oh please don't assume, just *listen first* before making a prejudgement, give it a chance.

Can Brian be given that artistic leeway too, or is it better just to write it off based on concept before the finished products are even heard?

PS...I would ***love*** to hear a collaboration between Cornelius and Brian Wilson at some point. His Fantasma album wears a Brian influence on its sleeve to the point Cornelius not only threw in some obvious 1966/67 PS-Smile musical references, but he also recreated a famous Pet Sounds studio photo of Brian at the Columbia board working the talkback mic for the album art...who does that, right? 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Can anyone think of a similar project by another artist? By which I mean, it's not a set of duets only. It's not the artist singing all the songs himself. It's not the artist having guest singers on all tracks, only some.  Maybe it's something that's never been done . Or perhaps it has, I'm just not aware of it.

An interesting point. Offhand, I'd suggest some of the latter-day Jerry Lee Lewis records. He has guests on nearly every track, but often times they're only contributing backing vocals or instrumental parts. Not a huge amount of new material on them, though.

Jimmy Webb's last three albums are just what we are discussing here.  Jimmy Webb & the Webb Brothers - Cottonwood Farm(2009) - a family affair with his sons and relatives, including a lead vocal from his dad.

On Just Across the River (2010) many of his friends dropped into the sessions to support Jimmy's lead vocals - some were duets.  He did a song on this I had been hoping he would do since I first heard it on an Arlo Guthrie album, "Oklahoma Nights."

Same format for Still Within the Sound of My Voice (2013) - featuring one "newer" artist (Rumer), and of course Brian.  Maybe he got the idea from hanging out with Jimmy, and not from having it forced on him by handlers and whatnot.

All had a mix of new and old songs, many that he had not recorded before.  All have been well received by fans and critics.  3 albums in 4 years by an old guy, still in his prime.  I have faith Brian could do that too.

Carlos Santana, one of the biggest "comebacks" of a 60's era artist of them all. And what did he do? He had all kinds of "modern" artists come in with their original songs, with their lead voices on those songs, and for what it's worth what Carlos himself did amounted to overdubbing guitar solos and lead guitar fills over those tracks.

Two of the most well known: "Smooth" which was written and sung by Rob Thomas, and "Game Of Love" which was written and sung by Michelle Branch. *Massive* crossover hits, radio hits that were on the charts and in video rotation when they were new, and they're still played on many AC radio stations and mainstream rock stations.

And in that case, I'd ask any Carlos Santana fans here...did it matter to *his* fans how those outside artists were chosen, or how they appeared on a "Santana" album?

Did it matter that the song "Smooth" was written and sung by the guy from Matchbox 20, and Carlos had little or nothing to do with the song besides overdubbing guitar fills and solos on top of what could be called a solo Rob Thomas track?

Yet it's a Santana album that sold in the millions and "crossed over" into several genres and charts.

So why is it such a stretch again for Brian Wilson to do something where he's writing, producing, arranging, and singing on a majority of songs on a "Brian Wilson" album featuring guest vocalists?

Santana did it, and made a shitload of money and new fans in the process. Not much wrong with that, I'd say.

No Brian/Rob Thomas duets please!!!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

OR someone please hire Brian to overdub Shortnin Bread/piano feels over any/all Matchbox 20/Rob Thomas stuff ! Please!

I did dig that Michelle Branch song though. She has a good voice and that country project she had was pretty dang good.

[leftybass77]

Ann Wilson had a mostly duets solo record. It was pretty good but isn't that well known.  it is mostly cover songs.

[guitarfool2002]

Should I keep going?

Fatboy Slim's "Weapon Of Choice", a strong record on its own, but bring in director Spike Jonze who is near-genius at making music videos to direct and create the visual impact, and bring in Christopher Walken to dance around in an old hotel, and at that point how much of the song's success was due to Fatboy Slim as it was Christopher Walken's dancing? I'd suggest "Weapon Of Choice" would have been released, maybe had moderate success on the dance charts, then faded away had it not been for Christopher Walken and the novelty of that which drew millions into watching the video and perhaps "buying" or at least knowing the song enough that it crossed over into the mainstream from the niche dance circuits.

I think some even label it "Fatboy Slim featuring Christopher Walken" online, does that piss off Fatboy Slim's fanbase to have Walken who contributed *absolutely nothing* to the music almost co-billed with the artist who actually made the record? Fans still talk about that video, and it was from 2001.

Daft Punk with "Get Lucky", one of the biggest singles of 2013 hands-down. I like Daft Punk, always have, especially with their affinity for 70's AM radio pop which they always reference and check in their productions. Pharrell Williams does a lead vocal, cowrites the song, and has the brilliant but almost forgotten (as of 2012) Nile Rodgers come in to cowrite and add the genuine scratch-funk guitar kick in the ass that he brought to dozens of hits in the 70's and 80's. Pharrell was (and still is) on a retro 70's dance/funk kick as a producer, having major hits with that sound. Nile comes in and basically does what he can do while half asleep to make a hit record, Daft Punk wears the robot head costumes and DJ's/mixes as they always do so well...and it becomes a massive hit record, a crossover.  

And it's still a "Daft Punk" record, despite two guest artists like Nile and Pharrell doing as much to make that record a hit, if not more, with their contributions. Then Stevie Wonder shows up performing the song on an awards show with Daft Punk and Nile Rodgers and Pharrell wearing a Smokey The Bear hat...and people love it. And Daft Punk were there wearing their robot helmets and working their Macs as Pharrell and Stevie and Nile basically owned the song as "guest artists" who made the record as good as it was.

Any complaints from Daft Punk fans about these outsiders coming in on a Daft Punk record?

It's the way some major hit records are made now versus in the 60's or 70's or even the 80's/90's. Some are just assumed to be genuine "hey man, come and play on my record" collaborations, while others are looked at with a skeptical notion that something was "forced" or in some other way not what anyone in the chain wanted to happen but was forced to do by some record execs.

I guess it all comes down to perspective, or believing what one wants to believe. Christopher Walken dancing...who would've thought that in itself would perhaps be more responsible for a song's success than the song itself? And this on a record which is now 13 years old.

Things have changed. That's about all there is to it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

In the interest of playing devil's advocate, it must be stated that some of the long-time Daft Punk fans actually did not care for their latest album and viewed it as a 'sell-out'. Not me, though...it's my least favorite of their discs, but still was great.

[Dave in KC]

Should I keep going?

Fatboy Slim's "Weapon Of Choice", a strong record on its own, but bring in director Spike Jonze who is near-genius at making music videos to direct and create the visual impact, and bring in Christopher Walken to dance around in an old hotel, and at that point how much of the song's success was due to Fatboy Slim as it was Christopher Walken's dancing? I'd suggest "Weapon Of Choice" would have been released, maybe had moderate success on the dance charts, then faded away had it not been for Christopher Walken and the novelty of that which drew millions into watching the video and perhaps "buying" or at least knowing the song enough that it crossed over into the mainstream from the niche dance circuits.

I think some even label it "Fatboy Slim featuring Christopher Walken" online, does that piss off Fatboy Slim's fanbase to have Walken who contributed *absolutely nothing* to the music almost co-billed with the artist who actually made the record? Fans still talk about that video, and it was from 2001.

Daft Punk with "Get Lucky", one of the biggest singles of 2013 hands-down. I like Daft Punk, always have, especially with their affinity for 70's AM radio pop which they always reference and check in their productions. Pharrell Williams does a lead vocal, cowrites the song, and has the brilliant but almost forgotten (as of 2012) Nile Rodgers come in to cowrite and add the genuine scratch-funk guitar kick in the ass that he brought to dozens of hits in the 70's and 80's. Pharrell was (and still is) on a retro 70's dance/funk kick as a producer, having major hits with that sound. Nile comes in and basically does what he can do while half asleep to make a hit record, Daft Punk wears the robot head costumes and DJ's/mixes as they always do so well...and it becomes a massive hit record, a crossover.  

And it's still a "Daft Punk" record, despite two guest artists like Nile and Pharrell doing as much to make that record a hit, if not more, with their contributions. Then Stevie Wonder shows up performing the song on an awards show with Daft Punk and Nile Rodgers and Pharrell wearing a Smokey The Bear hat...and people love it. And Daft Punk were there wearing their robot helmets and working their Macs as Pharrell and Stevie and Nile basically owned the song as "guest artists" who made the record as good as it was.

Any complaints from Daft Punk fans about these outsiders coming in on a Daft Punk record?

It's the way some major hit records are made now versus in the 60's or 70's or even the 80's/90's. Some are just assumed to be genuine "hey man, come and play on my record" collaborations, while others are looked at with a skeptical notion that something was "forced" or in some other way not what anyone in the chain wanted to happen but was forced to do by some record execs.

I guess it all comes down to perspective, or believing what one wants to believe. Christopher Walken dancing...who would've thought that in itself would perhaps be more responsible for a song's success than the song itself? And this on a record which is now 13 years old.

Things have changed. That's about all there is to it.

Side note: Fat Boy Slim's live performance at the Summer Olympics closing ceremony a few years ago was fantastic. Anyone else remember that?

[guitarfool2002]

In the interest of playing devil's advocate, it must be stated that some of the long-time Daft Punk fans actually did not care for their latest album and viewed it as a 'sell-out'. Not me, though...it's my least favorite of their discs, but still was great.

You'll always have a few fans like that no matter the artist. I know a few Daft Punk fans who liked it from the get-go, and I actually thought it was almost in-step with their 70's influence going back years, just coming from a different angle this time.

I view it like this: "One More Time" sold me on the group and their music, that record is simply terrific to my ears. It's one of those that just hits you the right way, whenever it's heard. As an obvious homage to their beloved 70's AM sounds, including the AM signals drifting in and out of tune late at night which they *nailed* on that record, it feels like you're with them as kids listening to the radio with them. They happened to move the dial to "One More Time", and we all listened and smiled like the best 70's nostalgia.

Then on the latest album, they just moved the dial across some other AM and FM stations in the 70's and landed on a few R&B, top-40, and pure pop songs like Chic, Donna Summer, Moroder, and Herb Alpert's "Rise" as they scanned through the stations on that same radio. But those stations' signals were stronger, and didn't drift as much as the one blasting "One More Time"...  

[Dancing Bear]

Sorry to disagree but Supernatural was a joke. What's next, prove the world that Stars & Stripes was cool as hell? 

[Matt Etherton]

I think the big issue is, Brian on his own is not a mainstream, well-known successful act.  So the Santana and Sinatra comparisons don't really work. The truth is, this upcoming record will sell far less than if it were billed as The Beach Boys of course. I can't imagine it selling more than 100 thousands copies, even if it gets in on the movie and book tie ins, but...more likely the book and movie will move some units of Sounds Of Summer. What's saddest to me is how pride/ego/manipulation have muddied up the truth of what could have been.

[guitarfool2002]

Sorry to disagree but Supernatural was a joke. What's next, prove the world that Stars & Stripes was cool as hell? 

And Carlos is still laughing all the way to the bank, isn't he? Walk into the studio, overdub his PRS guitar on what is basically a Rob Thomas solo track, and it becomes a major hit.

Where did I try to judge the artistic merits or whatever else of Supernatural in my post? I simply said it was a massive hit of a project and concept that crossed over into several genres and fanbases, made a ton of money, and put Santana into the mainstream of popular music where he hadn't been for a few decades. And it was in response to a question about whether anything like having "guest artists" perform on an album mixed in with the person's name who is actually on the album itself had happened before, and in this case it definitely had, with a musician from the 60's no less, and it was a huge commercial success despite Santana himself bringing considerably less to the project's creation from writing to actually being the featured performer on a song like "Smooth" than Brian has been getting challenged for doing on this upcoming solo album.

Unless somehow adding a few guitar fills and a guitar solo to a Rob Thomas track is somehow equal to writing or co-writing, producing or co-producing, arranging, and singing on a song.

[felipe]

Brian was almost never satisfied with his lead vocals even when they were good. He hiring other people to sing for him doesn't surprise me. If I was him, knowing the voice I once had, singing would be extemely painful.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the big issue is, Brian on his own is not a mainstream, well-known successful act.  So the Santana and Sinatra comparisons don't really work. The truth is, this upcoming record will sell far less than if it were billed as The Beach Boys of course. I can't imagine it selling more than 100 thousands copies, even if it gets in on the movie and book tie ins, but...more likely the book and movie will move some units of Sounds Of Summer. What's saddest to me is how pride/ego/manipulation have muddied up the truth of what could have been.

Are you kidding? What doesn't work is making such a statement as your first line when, in 2014, if you ask a group of random kids under 21 who Sinatra or Santana or even Brian Wilson are, not to mention Boston or Duran Duran or take your pick of artists over 50 years old, or if they own any of their albums, most will say "no". If you asked the millions of buyers who bought "Supernatural" because of the song "Smooth" how many of them owned Abraxas or the first Santana album with Michael Shrieve and Gregg Rollie, a majority would have said an emphatic "no", or even "what?". But did they know Matchbox 20? I'd wager more did who bought that album than knew Santana or his music.

So most if not all 60's-era artists are out of what marketers would call "mainstream" to begin with. On the average, are there many 18-year olds who have Sinatra, Santana, The Beach Boys, or the Stones on their music playlists? Take an informal poll. Beyond that, if they do have Sinatra, Santana, Beach Boys, Stones, etc. on their playlists, is it anything recorded after 1970 from those artists? That's almost 45 years old, we're talking.

So let's not redefine "mainstream" or try to say Brian Wilson is or isn't whatever makes your point in order to make a strawman argument. None of these artists are what marketers and advertisers call "mainstream", even Sinatra at this point.

To put it into perspective, when Brian Wilson was a teenager the music which was 45 years old was most likely a Sousa march on an Edison cylinder recording.

If you want to sell to what's considered "mainstream", look to the 18-25 demographic. If you want to sell to the group with the most money to spend on downloads and whatnot, look to the 13-18 teenage demographic. "Mainstream" doesn't care what a 50 year old man or woman buys.

Actually, nothing has changed in that regard since the 1950's or before, has it? 

But what has changed is the way a Santana album could sell that many copies at a time when even many buying that album probably didn't own a single Santana album of their own.

And if you want "The Beach Boys" on a billing in 2014 or even '15, they're on tour playing the hit records and some deep cuts but not recording any new music.

[Jim Rockford]

I think the big issue is, Brian on his own is not a mainstream, well-known successful act.  So the Santana and Sinatra comparisons don't really work. The truth is, this upcoming record will sell far less than if it were billed as The Beach Boys of course. I can't imagine it selling more than 100 thousands copies, even if it gets in on the movie and book tie ins, but...more likely the book and movie will move some units of Sounds Of Summer. What's saddest to me is how pride/ego/manipulation have muddied up the truth of what could have been.

Are you kidding? What doesn't work is making such a statement as your first line when, in 2014, if you ask a group of random kids under 21 who Sinatra or Santana or even Brian Wilson are, not to mention Boston or Duran Duran or take your pick of artists over 50 years old, or if they own any of their albums, most will say "no". If you asked the millions of buyers who bought "Supernatural" because of the song "Smooth" how many of them owned Abraxas or the first Santana album with Michael Shrieve and Gregg Rollie, a majority would have said an emphatic "no", or even "what?". But did they know Matchbox 20? I'd wager more did who bought that album than knew Santana or his music.

So most if not all 60's-era artists are out of what marketers would call "mainstream" to begin with. On the average, are there many 18-year olds who have Sinatra, Santana, The Beach Boys, or the Stones on their music playlists? Take an informal poll. Beyond that, if they do have Sinatra, Santana, Beach Boys, Stones, etc. on their playlists, is it anything recorded after 1970 from those artists? That's almost 45 years old, we're talking.

So let's not redefine "mainstream" or try to say Brian Wilson is or isn't whatever makes your point in order to make a strawman argument. None of these artists are what marketers and advertisers call "mainstream", even Sinatra at this point.

To put it into perspective, when Brian Wilson was a teenager the music which was 45 years old was most likely a Sousa march on an Edison cylinder recording.

If you want to sell to what's considered "mainstream", look to the 18-25 demographic. If you want to sell to the group with the most money to spend on downloads and whatnot, look to the 13-18 teenage demographic. "Mainstream" doesn't care what a 50 year old man or woman buys.

Actually, nothing has changed in that regard since the 1950's or before, has it? 

But what has changed is the way a Santana album could sell that many copies at a time when even many buying that album probably didn't own a single Santana album of their own.

And if you want "The Beach Boys" on a billing in 2014 or even '15, they're on tour playing the hit records and some deep cuts but not recording any new music.

I'm 19. Is that close enough? 

[guitarfool2002]

I think the big issue is, Brian on his own is not a mainstream, well-known successful act.  So the Santana and Sinatra comparisons don't really work. The truth is, this upcoming record will sell far less than if it were billed as The Beach Boys of course. I can't imagine it selling more than 100 thousands copies, even if it gets in on the movie and book tie ins, but...more likely the book and movie will move some units of Sounds Of Summer. What's saddest to me is how pride/ego/manipulation have muddied up the truth of what could have been.

Are you kidding? What doesn't work is making such a statement as your first line when, in 2014, if you ask a group of random kids under 21 who Sinatra or Santana or even Brian Wilson are, not to mention Boston or Duran Duran or take your pick of artists over 50 years old, or if they own any of their albums, most will say "no". If you asked the millions of buyers who bought "Supernatural" because of the song "Smooth" how many of them owned Abraxas or the first Santana album with Michael Shrieve and Gregg Rollie, a majority would have said an emphatic "no", or even "what?". But did they know Matchbox 20? I'd wager more did who bought that album than knew Santana or his music.

So most if not all 60's-era artists are out of what marketers would call "mainstream" to begin with. On the average, are there many 18-year olds who have Sinatra, Santana, The Beach Boys, or the Stones on their music playlists? Take an informal poll. Beyond that, if they do have Sinatra, Santana, Beach Boys, Stones, etc. on their playlists, is it anything recorded after 1970 from those artists? That's almost 45 years old, we're talking.

So let's not redefine "mainstream" or try to say Brian Wilson is or isn't whatever makes your point in order to make a strawman argument. None of these artists are what marketers and advertisers call "mainstream", even Sinatra at this point.

To put it into perspective, when Brian Wilson was a teenager the music which was 45 years old was most likely a Sousa march on an Edison cylinder recording.

If you want to sell to what's considered "mainstream", look to the 18-25 demographic. If you want to sell to the group with the most money to spend on downloads and whatnot, look to the 13-18 teenage demographic. "Mainstream" doesn't care what a 50 year old man or woman buys.

Actually, nothing has changed in that regard since the 1950's or before, has it? 

But what has changed is the way a Santana album could sell that many copies at a time when even many buying that album probably didn't own a single Santana album of their own.

And if you want "The Beach Boys" on a billing in 2014 or even '15, they're on tour playing the hit records and some deep cuts but not recording any new music.

I'm 19. Is that close enough? 

Your opinions, buying habits, spending habits, and the way you live and spend money in general is worth a fortune to marketers and advertisers, not to mention anything connected to the entertainment business.

Use that to your advantage!    Spread the good taste in music, film, art, food, etc. to more people who want your opinion...start the revolution among those who actually hold the power and the money to spend, not those who tell you what to buy and like...tell them you want to buy a new Brian Wilson album, and then say "Who the hell is One Direction? Never heard of 'em..." That will send them into a panic.

Then wait for one of these young genius marketing wizards fresh out of college to ask "Brian Wilson, the pitcher with the long beard has a new album?" 

...Sorry, I got carried away.  Jealous that I'm no longer that age.



Seriously...not you personally, but in your age group: On average, are there more people who have or more who don't have music from the older artists I mentioned above on their iPods or playlists? Not your friends who I assume share tastes in music, but within your age/peer group in general?

[Jim Rockford]

I think the big issue is, Brian on his own is not a mainstream, well-known successful act.  So the Santana and Sinatra comparisons don't really work. The truth is, this upcoming record will sell far less than if it were billed as The Beach Boys of course. I can't imagine it selling more than 100 thousands copies, even if it gets in on the movie and book tie ins, but...more likely the book and movie will move some units of Sounds Of Summer. What's saddest to me is how pride/ego/manipulation have muddied up the truth of what could have been.

Are you kidding? What doesn't work is making such a statement as your first line when, in 2014, if you ask a group of random kids under 21 who Sinatra or Santana or even Brian Wilson are, not to mention Boston or Duran Duran or take your pick of artists over 50 years old, or if they own any of their albums, most will say "no". If you asked the millions of buyers who bought "Supernatural" because of the song "Smooth" how many of them owned Abraxas or the first Santana album with Michael Shrieve and Gregg Rollie, a majority would have said an emphatic "no", or even "what?". But did they know Matchbox 20? I'd wager more did who bought that album than knew Santana or his music.

So most if not all 60's-era artists are out of what marketers would call "mainstream" to begin with. On the average, are there many 18-year olds who have Sinatra, Santana, The Beach Boys, or the Stones on their music playlists? Take an informal poll. Beyond that, if they do have Sinatra, Santana, Beach Boys, Stones, etc. on their playlists, is it anything recorded after 1970 from those artists? That's almost 45 years old, we're talking.

So let's not redefine "mainstream" or try to say Brian Wilson is or isn't whatever makes your point in order to make a strawman argument. None of these artists are what marketers and advertisers call "mainstream", even Sinatra at this point.

To put it into perspective, when Brian Wilson was a teenager the music which was 45 years old was most likely a Sousa march on an Edison cylinder recording.

If you want to sell to what's considered "mainstream", look to the 18-25 demographic. If you want to sell to the group with the most money to spend on downloads and whatnot, look to the 13-18 teenage demographic. "Mainstream" doesn't care what a 50 year old man or woman buys.

Actually, nothing has changed in that regard since the 1950's or before, has it? 

But what has changed is the way a Santana album could sell that many copies at a time when even many buying that album probably didn't own a single Santana album of their own.

And if you want "The Beach Boys" on a billing in 2014 or even '15, they're on tour playing the hit records and some deep cuts but not recording any new music.

I'm 19. Is that close enough? 

Your opinions, buying habits, spending habits, and the way you live and spend money in general is worth a fortune to marketers and advertisers, not to mention anything connected to the entertainment business.

Use that to your advantage!    Spread the good taste in music, film, art, food, etc. to more people who want your opinion...start the revolution among those who actually hold the power and the money to spend, not those who tell you what to buy and like...tell them you want to buy a new Brian Wilson album, and then say "Who the hell is One Direction? Never heard of 'em..." That will send them into a panic.

Then wait for one of these young genius marketing wizards fresh out of college to ask "Brian Wilson, the pitcher with the long beard has a new album?" 

...Sorry, I got carried away.  Jealous that I'm no longer that age.



Seriously...not you personally, but in your age group: On average, are there more people who have or more who don't have music from the older artists I mentioned above on their iPods or playlists? Not your friends who I assume share tastes in music, but within your age/peer group in general?

I really wish I could turn people my age onto good music, but when I do it usually ends badly.    From my experience, I haven't met anyone with my taste in music. In high school, people kinda thought I was odd. I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but it's true. Now I can't speak for this generation because there are people my age that do like The Beach Boys. I know there are. I haven't met any, but I know for a fact that there are members on here that are around the same age as I am. This new album may change that, but it's too soon to tell. I hope I helped.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ive noticed todays teens seem to be more into 'older' music than when I was in high school in the 90s. It's almost like it's cool/hip/jiggy whatever the word is these days, anyway...it's like the 60s-80s are as cool with the young folk as the current stuff. I know from seeing the kids in my apartment complex, former neighbor kids, and now at my daughter's school (so it's trending younger now too)

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Ive noticed todays teens seem to be more into 'older' music than when I was in high school in the 90s. It's almost like it's cool/hip/jiggy whatever the word is these days, anyway...it's like the 60s-80s are as cool with the young folk as the current stuff. I know from seeing the kids in my apartment complex, former neighbor kids, and now at my daughter's school (so it's trending younger now too)

Eh not really, todays music kinda stinks

[guitarfool2002]

I really wish I could turn people my age onto good music, but when I do it usually ends badly.    From my experience, I haven't met anyone with my taste in music. In high school, people kinda thought I was odd. I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but it's true. Now I can't speak for this generation because there are people my age that do like The Beach Boys. I know there are. I haven't met any, but I know for a fact that there are members on here that are around the same age as I am. This new album may change that, but it's too soon to tell. I hope I helped.

Thanks for the input! It's not about what I wanted to hear, but rather a confirmation of what I knew to be true based on the people in your age group I deal with on a regular basis. Unless they're musicians, or unless their parents exposed them to the 60's era music and musicians, there isn't much of a connection. In general, what is "mainstream" today isn't The Stones, Beach Boys, even The Beatles although they are more cross-cultural than others. Sinatra, definitely not.

So when someone suggests this or that is or isn't mainstream, like the Beach Boys or Brian Wilson or anything related, I just wanted someone in the actual age group or demographic to clarify based on what they live every day. And again, thanks for that input.

I was the same way. Early teens, I was excited about scoring Beatles records at yard sales and watching the Monkees reruns on TV taping the songs on a recorder, and listening to my Beach Boys tapes and even Elvis and Glenn Miller from my parents' albums at a time when people my age group thought that was crazy.

The bands those in that age group were listening to when they couldn't understand me listening to Revolver or Meet The Beatles or Pisces Aquarius? Barely any of them are heard of or even fondly remembered today. I come to this board, people under 21 are talking Beach Boys, Beatles, even Monkees? Fantastic, I love it.

The reality check is that the artists a lot of us consider mainstream aren't even on the radar for the average teenager in 2014, and any Beach Boys or Brian Wilson or Rolling Stones or Paul McCartney release no matter how good is not going to make a dent in that general audience share...unless some fluke like Santana and the dude from Matchbox 20 comes along again and has a song that appeals to them and has a current musician featured on that song who they'll know and buy.

That's on the average. The musical tastes and habits of most people on this board are very much above average.

[Niko]

Ive noticed todays teens seem to be more into 'older' music than when I was in high school in the 90s. It's almost like it's cool/hip/jiggy whatever the word is these days, anyway...it's like the 60s-80s are as cool with the young folk as the current stuff. I know from seeing the kids in my apartment complex, former neighbor kids, and now at my daughter's school (so it's trending younger now too)

The fact that most music is readily available online is definitely part of it - I've found some of my favorite music just clicking through youtube.

[bluesno1fann]

Ive noticed todays teens seem to be more into 'older' music than when I was in high school in the 90s. It's almost like it's cool/hip/jiggy whatever the word is these days, anyway...it's like the 60s-80s are as cool with the young folk as the current stuff. I know from seeing the kids in my apartment complex, former neighbor kids, and now at my daughter's school (so it's trending younger now too)

Eh not really, todays music kinda stinks

Captain Obvious... lol

[Nicko1234]

Frank Sinatra's "Duets"...another massive selling album project. I'm not really a fan, but essentially Frank was rarely if ever at all in the same studio with his "duet" partners recording together, yet the thing sold in the millions and also helped put Frank back in the music spotlight for something "new", which was basically an album of covers anyway...and a duets album where the two musicians dueting didn't even step in the same studio to record.

Again, my opinion of it is strictly personal taste, and I'm not a big fan of hearing him with Pavarotti and whoever else, but there are fans who love that album. And again, it sold, despite the whole thing being somewhat of a publicity gimmick because, again, the duets were long-distance and cobbled together by engineers.

I remember Tony Bennett also released performances with KD Lang and other "modern" singers, not to mention the genius idea of him going on MTV Unplugged and basically doing his usual set but featuring some of the younger generation of singers along with him. It literally put him back on the map, made him "hip" again to a whole generation of listeners, and his days of being known as a nostalgia act doing "San Francisco" with the Ohio Pops at Christmas were over. He was current.

And Tony sharing the spotlight with singers half his age didn't seem to rile up his fan base as much as Brian among the half-dozen or so here who continue to harp on it. Do you assume Tony owned a shelf full of Elvis Costello albums or even KD Lang albums when they appeared on that stage with him for Unplugged? Or do we assume Tony *did* while Brian *did not*, or maybe that Tony had been into Elvis Costello and would go 'round humming the organ riff to "Pump It Up" while Brian had little clue who he was singing with, or that even worse he had no say in the selection process and just rolled with the punches?

So the "duets" concept is good, if and when we assume the artist whose name is on the album is beyond reproach. But when Brian does it,...oh man, trouble ahead.

But pairing Yoko Ono with Questlove or Lenny Kravitz or Cornelius...Oh please don't assume, just *listen first* before making a prejudgement, give it a chance.

Can Brian be given that artistic leeway too, or is it better just to write it off based on concept before the finished products are even heard?

PS...I would ***love*** to hear a collaboration between Cornelius and Brian Wilson at some point. His Fantasma album wears a Brian influence on its sleeve to the point Cornelius not only threw in some obvious 1966/67 PS-Smile musical references, but he also recreated a famous Pet Sounds studio photo of Brian at the Columbia board working the talkback mic for the album art...who does that, right? 

I think there is one big difference between the likes of Tony Bennett/Frank Sinatra and Brian Wilson. They are singers whereas Brian has been the head honcho in the studio. That`s why some people have different expectations imo.

And I`m sure fans of any of these older artists have mixed reactions when they work with young whippersnappers. Beach Boys fans certainly did when they worked with The Fat Boys and were very successful anyway...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'd love to sit down with Joe Thomas (yeah, like that's ever going to happen) and put a few pointed questions to him, in particular "exactly how long after Jeff Beck bailed on the collaboration did you start calling the likes of Deschanel and Del Ray ?"

Don't get me wrong, I'm as fascinated as any of you to hear the new album, but to say its had an... interesting genesis would be on a par with saying George Best was a fair footballer. That said, Sunflower was a distinctly compromised and mongreliod product, and that wasn't exactly shabby, was it ?