The Smiley Smile Message Board

If John Stamos never existed (or was never a BB fan), how would BB history be any different? Obviously, they wouldn't have wound up on Full House, and most likely their appearances on Home Improvement and Baywatch wouldn't have happened either in their current form (though they probably would still have done the occasional 1980s guest spot on the popular TV shows of the day, since that was already happening pre-Stamos).

As much as people rag on Stamos, and say that he's a blight on the band's legacy, what would have happened if he was never in any way part of it? I have to think that the M&B show has probably benefited from the Stamos connection, because I doubt they'd have gained all that much in legacy cred if Stamos had never existed, and Stamos may have helped keep them more in the news. Not saying I agree in any way with him being a regular part of the show.

What does everyone think?

All jokes aside, how would BB history be different?

No American family hackjob or M&B shows with Stamos murdering the songs.

Theyd probably be more unknown, or still-pigeon-holed by not a laughingstock by people growing up in the 80s and 90s. Aside from that...not all that much different. Hes a fringe element. A footnote. Maybe a draw for certain people at the shows, but probably not that much to make a difference and even if he is, would it really be so bad if the Mike show pulled less numbers? They still play small venues, so its not like theyd get rejected from anyone. No one stipulates "Stamos has to be there or I wont book you."

Very minimal change, possibly for the best legacy wise, possibly for the worst short term money wise.

This board's obsession with Stamos is cute. Just like Stamos! Full circle.

More people are aware of the band--including exposure to a Dennis gem--because of him. Any "serious fan" who rescinded said status because of him apparently wasn't one anyway. So who cares? Let a rich, famous super-fan actor/wannabe rock star add some press, however minimal it may be.

Sure,  he should be welcomed and accepted into "The Beach Boys" (licensed) family. And just like family, Mike should bring up his drug abuse every single time he's interviewed to make it official! 

 :lol

I thought that Mike only mentions drug use with regard to those whom he is no longer regularly working with. I don't think Mike repeatedly mentioning Stamos' drug use would be good for Stamos retention, and Stamos retention is imperative.

back this up 100%

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The hatred for Stamos is something I'll never get; it's probably mere jealousy.

Of course, lamenting the board's obsession with Stamos on a board loaded with obsessives is probably self-defeating, yet I fail to see just how much he really contributed to the band's legacy that was either a net positive or a net negative. He's what all of us wish we could have been - a lucky fan who got to play with his favorite band. I sometimes think the anti-Stamos brouhaha is due to little more than rabid Full House haters. There are more notable sidemen in the band's history, sidemen who had MUCH more to do with the music than Stamos ever did.

For better or worse, I'm convinced of that Stamos has in the past, and continues today to attract a perceptible amount of fans to Mike and Bruce shows.   Maybe not tons, but his association might be a tipping point in getting some people more interested in going.  I don't know any of these people myself, but I think they do exist.  If not, he would never appear in any of their promo photos, since he's not an actual member of the band! It's clearly seen by Mike as a selling point. And selling points exist to make money.

While I obviously have no way of proving this, I think he has added slightly to the M&B bottom line. Of course, there's the counter argument of whether or not a chunk of casual fans were/are turned off to the band nearly because of the repeated full house appearances. While we can joke about that, I think it's not to be dismissed as negligible. Maybe, ultimately it winds up being a positive monetary thing that cancels itself out.

Since myKe and br00th are a BB tribute band, it doesn't matter who they invite on stage. The mostly casual fans they attract don't really give a sh*t who shows up.  Face it, they need all the help they can possibly get from any buffoon who shows up, staymohs included.

Stamos never meant anything to me.  He was just a guy who somehow was officially allowed to butcher one of Dennis' BEST EVER tunes and a true highlight from Sunflower.  I never 'got' why he was allowed to do that.  Never saw the TV shows with the Boys.  Wasn't into that kind of dip-stick-stupid TV.

The guy means diddly squat to me...except that he's a drunk driver and has tarnished the group's image not only by trying and failing to sing a BB classic but by association with his stupid choices as the fool he obviously is.

Really?  There is no Stamos.  At least not one with ANY talent.

According to later updates on that hugely important story and his own pained recollection to Serious Journalist Matt Lauer, Stamos was driving around wasted on GHB... which he later claimed was for bodybuilding purposes. Mmm hmm. For good measure he went to rehab AND blamed the whole thing on his mom dying a year ago.

Presumably her dying wish was to have him "lean out body mass."  Anyway...

(http://flying-donkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/john-stamos-006_script_rev1.jpg)

There is no Stamos.

Someone else would have had to mime playing the bongos in the Kokomo video - life as we have come to know it would never be the same again.

Kokomo (for better or worse) was a hit with or without John Stamos or Full House. I doubt he made any difference.  The movie Cocktail? Probably.

You know, I don't get the hatred for Stamos or Full House. Mike probably wishes he had John's hair; and Full House was a good family show - you know, if you don't want to expose your kids to couples jumping in the sack every 5 minutes, and bodies getting blown to bits. I guess some fans would have liked the 80s/90s Beach Boys to be hard rockers wearing leather and/or ripped jeans and t-shirts, screaming socially relevant lyrics and/or songs about a heroin habit; trying hard to be hip/alternative/indie. If they had gone that route, we'd all be mocking these old geezers for trying so hard to fit in with the trends of the day.

What if, what if. Questions, questions.

What if no Tom Cruise either? No handsome greasy young men, no trying hard to be hip/alternative/indie. Or faux cuddly/mainstream/sitcom. What if Kokomo came packaged in a sensible, thoroughly fact-checked package? Opening up whole new audiences and possible demographics in the UK. Without Tom Cruise's box office bankability, I doubt they would've been able to afford Michael Caine tho, so Mike could've played the mentor figure as well...

(http://i.imgur.com/Jjn4utJ.jpg)

Do you see what happens when you meddle with time and space with questions like this?!?!

A ripple effect with countless repercussions!

That is so incredibly amazing

 :lol ;D ;D :lol

"Cocktail" suddenly becomes an entirely different movie.  >:D

OK. 

Instead of dwelling on the negative aspects of Stamos, why not just accept the fact that Stamos did lend a hand in exposing The Beach Boys to a new generation. 

I was born in 1980, and my, and many other people I grew up with had their first exposure to The Beach Boys on Full House.  Sure, that show is difficult to watch now, but it was a big deal in the late 1980s.  Plus, how many people from my generation would know the song "Forever" if it hadn't been featured in the show? 

Granted, it has its faults (especially in the second half), but for what it is, I honestly don't think American Family is nearly as bad as its reputation.  It was a made for TV movie with a low budget.  And I still think the pre Pet Sounds era was handled as well as it could be. 

Maybe Stamos has worn out his welcome with concert appearances, but he's still using Beach Boys music in his TV shows. 

The way I see it, any attempt to expose people to the music of The Beach Boys is a positive. 

It's a regular It's A Wonderful Life situation. No Stamos means Tim Allen taking his place and the guys making cameos in all three Santa Clause movies. In one of which, there would be a song called Rudolph's Goin' To Kokomo. So count your blessings.

Wait, I really want to see this movie.

Without the Beach Boys' appearances on several John Stamos-related TV shows, you would have over a million less fans of The Beach Boys music, several thousand less fans of Dennis Wilson's music, and several thousand less fans who were surprised/happy/entertained by Stamos' appearances at Beach Boys' concerts. I think that when people go to work the day after a Beach Boys' concert, after saying what a great show it was, the next sentence would be happily saying that John Stamos was there and sang, played drums, and played guitar.

To borrow another member’s turn of phrase, Stamos is a blight on the Beach Boys and their legacy. Doesn’t mean he destroyed them or even seriously hurt their legacy, also doesn’t mean he never attracted any new fans or attention to the band. Much like the disco version of “Here Comes the Night”, it’s just an annoying pockmark on the history of the band. Much like Stamos, I’m sure some fans heard the disco version of “Here Comes the Night” and became fans.

Stamos is a big fan of the band, and he should have concentrated his energies in that direction. Be a fan, not an adjunct member of the band against the wishes of a segment of the band’s fanbase and, in the case of C50, against the wishes of some of the actual band members. Help fund a good documentary on the band. Champion a release of archival material and then write some liner notes about the 80s/90s era. Stamos could have been a fan’s best friend doing stuff like that.

Stamos has even said in interviews that he realizes a lot of fans don’t like him, going so far as to say he’s be pissed if he was at a Beach Boys concert and Scott Baio jumped on stage. His explanation appears to essentially be that he’s a big fan and any big fan would never turn down the opportunity to jump on stage with them. I just fundamentally disagree with that. Even David Marks sometimes turned their offer down when asked to play on stage with the band in the when he was just visiting the guys for a night.

But I agree, the Stamos thing is old. The same group of people come out every time to claim disdain for Stamos is motivated by jealousy and mean-spiritedness (I already know one likely person who is going to respond to this very post, and I can already guess mostly what that poster is going to say). No, the disdain is motivated by, as another member of the board once put it, the idea that when Stamos gets up on stage for a “Beach Boys” concert (whether Mike’s or C50), he just does whatever he wants. He drags the music down; he’s an amateur musician.

His “Full House” connection is now largely remembered for its camp. Ironically funny. Now, I don’t think all the “Full House” stuff injured the band in any significant way. I’m happy to just laugh about it, and fondly remember the ridiculous “Forever” music video Uncle Jessie made, and the weird scene where it’s Bruce Johnston who “allows” Uncle Jessie to record “Forever.” It’s funny stuff. But if people want to take it dead seriously and ascribe more to the Stamos connection than there is, then I’m happy to call it like I see it. He’s a blight. Seems like a nice guy and I’ve never questioned that he’s a true fan and a big fan. If Rolling Stone is to be believed, Stamos liked Brian’s suite on TWGMTR more than Mike Love did! He would just be a thousand times cooler if he would have stayed one of the most famous BB fans.

I remember being fascinated seeing Tony Curtis introduce ELO for a show back in the 70s, and learning he was apparently a huge ELO fan. Awesome. If Curtis had started jumping on stage and singing with them, I would have found that intensely annoying. 

I question how many new true fans Stamos brought to the table. Surely some. But "Summer in Paradise" didn't even *chart*. As in, it wasn't in the top 200 albums. That album had the Stamos track on it, and was released during the show's popular run and his "Forever" cover version was interwoven into multiple episodes on the show around that same time. Stamos had  a "Summer in Paradise" poster on the wall on the show. Stamos bringing "millions of new fans" to the band coincided with their worst album chart performance of their career, and surely the worst selling studio album of their career.

He brought the Beach Boys a few spurts of attention more than anything else. "Kokomo" was already a hit when the band played it on the show.

As for concerts, I wonder how many tickets a tour billed as "Mike Love & John Stamos" would sell?

There's no doubt that The Beach Boys don't really need John Stamos. 

But, I think anybody who flies the flag of The Beach Boys is OK in my book. 

Stamos started out with a minor role in a soap opera, with Demi Moore as a sidekick.  I don't miminize soap opera style (feuilliton -or daily newspaper installment style of publication) as that was Balzac's style of writing (a lawyer and subversive activist/novelist) in the 19th century. 

You're smarter than to buy into this crap, Ontor.  Listen, "neutrally" to all the interviews.  Dennis, Mike and Brian. Make three columns with the information (and not the personalities) and you might get a surprise. The information is identitical.  Bias creeps in and hurts cred.  And you can still dislike a person but try to separate the information from the speakers. Turn off the video. Just have the audio.

Stamos is a human like everyone else. And he started off at the bottom. 

The first album released during Full House's popular run was Still Cruisin' which went platinum. The first Beach Boys' major comp released during/after the show's popular run that included Dennis' "Forever" was Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys, which went gold. And, in my opinion, what units of Summer In Paradise that were sold were aided by "Forever", not despite it. I will agree with your point that the Summer In Paradise poster on Stamos' wall didn't have much of an effect on sales.

“Still Cruisin’” went gold because it had “Kokomo” on it more than anything else. Its connection to “Full House” was nil. The Beach Boys had appeared on other TV shows in some capacity or another in the nearly full year between their first appearance on “Full House” and the release of “Still Cruisin’.” If the Beach Boys had been regular cast members on the show, then I’d buy that any subsequent release of theirs would be fueled by the TV show. A cameo appearance or two, not so much.

I also don’t buy any connection between the ’93 boxed set and “Full House.” How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result? The GV boxed set sold as well as it did because it was filled with BB hits. It was the band’s first major boxed set released of that nature in the CD era. It had “Smile” material on it, and other outtakes.

As far as “SIP”, it’s kind of semantics as to whether a non-charting, worst-selling album performance was a case of Stamos not helping, or not helping enough. If Stamos had any impact on sales, it was *measurably* so poor that one could argue The Fat Boys brought the Beach Boys more fans that Stamos did. “Stars and Stripes” charted better (#101 in the Top 200, and #12 on the Country Albums chart). This only matters if we’re trying to characterize how much Stamos *helped* the band’s career or popularity or number of fans. By the only measures we have available (anecdotes about baby boomers going to Mike’s shows and getting all hot and bothered when Stamos straps on his guitar don’t really count; Stamos is never the selling point of a “Beach Boys” show, and his appearance is never guaranteed), Stamos in his prime couldn’t give the Beach Boys even enough of a “boost” off the back of his popular sitcom and numerous BB and “Forever” cameos to even make “Summer in Paradise” one of the top *200* albums in the country for even a single week. Think about that. During the prime of “Full House”, there were at least *two hundred* albums that people were more interested in.

How many people liked specifically the Stamos covers of “Forever” on the TV show, then decided they wanted the original recording, and then bought a five-disc boxed set as a result?
[/quote]

In my opinion, several thousand. I also think this ultimately led to several thousand fans discovering Pacific Ocean Blue.

Hey Jude - the GV box set was long overdue.  And, you're correct about the Smile tracks.  Discs 3 and 4 are outstanding in the same way that discs 5 and 6 are outstanding on MIC, also long overdue.

Stamos?  They offered one another "reciprocal opportunities" and from a business standpoint, it was a win-win for both. The BB's had a chance to build a new and a very young audience, and Stamos got a chance to be a "guest" on the road.  It gave him a platform outside of FH to interact with fans, in a different forum.  And them to be part of a crossover demographic.  But it is hilarious to me to see a Stamos thread crop up when there is a Mike interview debate.  Predicable.  Every time.   :lol

Speaking from personal experience. 

When I decided to buy couple Beach Boy compilations back in 2006 or 2007, I got Sounds of Summer.  Then, I got Warmth of the Sun because it had All Summer Long, the title track, Catch a Wave, and........wait for it.......the song Forever, that was used in Full House when I was a kid. 

Listening to that compilation introduced me to songs like Surf's Up, Feel Flows, Til I Die, Kiss Me Baby, and Friends. 

So, because I wanted a compilation that had Forever on it because I was exposed to it on Full House (again, born in 1980, can't help it), I learned about so many other great BB songs. 

I'm not saying I wouldn't be a die hard BB/BW fan if not for Stamos.  But, just for food for thought.   

I’m sure Stamos, or any TV exposure, would only net the band fans. Indeed, I don’t think any actual true fan of the band *stopped* being a fan because of Stamos.

I think the degree to which he helped is simply being vastly overstated, and also ignores the negative impact he has on the band’s image in the eyes of some fans (not to the degree of no longer being fans, just the aforementioned blight). That the band released their worst-selling, lowest charting studio album of their careers at the height of the popularity of Stamos and Full House vastly undercuts any arguments that he gained the band “millions of fans.”

Surely, back in 1992, at least 10 or 20,000 of those *millions* of new fans would have shelled out the money for the new album. I think Stamos got millions of eyes and ears *on* the BBs and their music for short spurts of time. That’s very different from gaining millions of actual fans (to say nothing of sales). Same thing with BB appearances on the Tonight Show, or Solid Gold, or American Bandstand. If anything, I would assume a more music industry-oriented show like “American Bandstand” gained actual additional fans and sales for the band more than Stamos or “Full House.”

I also don’t think Stamos helped with ticket sales in any measurable way. He’s rarely if ever a guaranteed show at a concert, and it’s the BB name that sells tickets. Some casual fans who like seeing another celebrity on stage come away from a show and say “wow, wasn’t that cool that Uncle Jessie was on stage?” is not the same thing as Stamos driving the accumulation of fans, or ticket sales, etc.

This is obviously impossible to measure, but I simply disagree. I think it’s laughable to suggest Stamos sold thousands of copies of the GV boxed set or “Pacific Ocean Blue”, considering he couldn’t even sell thousands of copies of the very BB album that he sings on himself.

What else makes the GV set different from “Summer in Paradise?” One is a quality set with quality material, and the other isn’t. I don’t think Stamos *hurt* sales of anything particularly, but he clearly didn’t help. To suggest he helped a 5-disc boxed set filled with their most popular songs and without any Stamos tracks on it sell, while ignoring the total failure of a cheaper BB album that has an actual Stamos track on it, is again laughable.   

The only fan of Stamos in the group is Mike Love. Stamos is the bait he needs to have a great after-show party. ;)

And you know that how?

This demonstrates the typical, best-case scenario for how Stamos impacts the band. Someone remembers something about his connection fondly. But you were already a fan and looked for "Sounds of Summer" first. Similarly, people buy a ticket to hear BB music, and if Stamos is there, *some* folks find that exciting/interesting/noteworthy. But they're not there to see Stamos, and they're usually not there because they started out liking Stamos.

What others are suggesting is that he is driving anything in relation to fans, or sales, or ticket sales. I think he doesn't particularly serve this function any more than any tangential thing might. There are Rusty Anderson groupies that go to McCartney concerts to see Anderson. I have no doubt there is a select, very small group of Stamos devotees whose sole initiation and interest into BB fandom revolves around Stamos.

Hey Jude, what you and some other people on this board fail to realize or accept - intentionally or unintentionally - is that these episodes of Full House featuring "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School" or "Barbara Ann" or whatever weren't just broadcast one time in Palookaville in 1988. These Stamos-related TV shows were broadcast ALL OVER THE WORLD CONTINUOUSLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS! And, each time these songs are exposed to new viewers via the TV shows, a number of people get hooked, and the rest is history. New Beach Boys' fans are born. Three decades of Stamos shows now. That's a lot of new fans.

For a lot of buyers the first official release of 40+ minutes of Smile material (in decent quality) was a big selling point for the 93 GV box set, alongside of course a more complete collection of all the classic hits in one package along with the rarities, before the internet made all this stuff instantly accessible.

Exactly GF! - and at that point we had been waiting since 1967 for more Smile tracks.  About 25 years. And you are correct in that they are good quality pre-Internet. Love discs 3 & 4!  :thewilsons

Yes Sheriff! Continuously for the last 30 years!

Try to buy that kind of publicity!  :lol

I understand well how worldwide syndication works. As I’ve said, any TV appearance is almost always going to do nothing but net the band fans. But the number of people who previously had zero interest in the band who, in 2015 watch a 27-year-old rerun of “Full House” and discover “Kokomo” and then get into the rest of the catalog, are likely few in number.

There’s really no “product” to measure how much Stamos helps the band accumulate fans. YouTube views don’t count, that’s free. Every BB product is first and foremost a “Beach Boys” product, so its main selling point is the band and its name and its music. I’m frankly not willing to buy that Stamos helps the band sell any hits compilations. The hits sell the hits compilations.

This idea that millions of people around the world watch “Full House” and launch into BB fandom is a conveniently abstract, immeasurable idea.

All sorts of tangential things sell BB product. McCartney mentioning "Pet Sounds" sells copies of PS. Your uncle playing "Be True to Your School" sells BB records. Hearing a song at Rite Aid sells BB music. All sorts of things do, including Stamos. But not in the "millions."

The one and only BB product closely linked directly to Stamos was one of if not the worst failures of the band’s career. I’d even buy that 90s nostalgia, and specifically Stamos/Full House nostalgia is at an uptick to the point that if they re-released “SIP”, it would *probably* sell more copies on iTunes now than it did physical copies back in 1992. But it would still be in the thousands, not millions. Given that they wouldn’t even include the “SIP” cover on album cover montages during C50 suggests to me perhaps someone (maybe Brian) feels that particular album/era should be retired.

They can't even quantify how many albums they've sold.  I'll tell you how one might try to quantify it.  Recently I sat next to a 4 year old with an Uncle Jesse shirt.  At a BB show.  And I taught 4 year olds during the original run of FH, and had my own kids during the 1980's.  

Are you confusing commercial success with a lack of artistic recognition?  Let's remember that Pet Sounds initial had neither.  And no bona fide promotion.

And every time I see the band, my kids first question is whether I "saw Stamos." They are FH era kids. KDS' first generation.  The argument fails based on value judgments.  

If we're talking about the band's worldwide fanbase, then your examples are the opposite of quantifying. Those are anecdotes. That children of a BB fan who celebrates Stamos extensively would also be into Stamos is not surprising.

If you want to say "I know some fans who got into the BBs because of Stamos", that's fine. If you want to start saying he has gained the band "millions" of fans, and helped "Still Cruisin'" and the GV boxed set go gold, then you need to start producing some evidence.

And yes, I'll point out the obvious that comparing the "lack of critical success" of "Pet Sounds" (which, I would say actually did have pretty solid *critical* success) to, apparently, the lack of critical success of "Summer In Paradise" or anything related to Stamos's connection with the band is beyond silly. The Stamos connection to the BBs is a laughing stock among critics and the rock press.

But that just gets us back into this weird political/sociological/cultural debate where obviously one side feels someone wearing an "Uncle Jessie" shirt at Mike's "Beach Boys" concert is more important than a good review from a respected music/rock critic. It's the same cultural divide that led to the trainwreck of Stamos crashing those C50 shows at the behest of Mike. That same cultural divide among fans was played out on stage among the actual band members (and in the audience among fans). Even Johns Stamos himself not only *knows* that divide exists, but he *understands* it and even seems to empathize with it.

Funny you mention that, when my fiance and I went to see Mike, Bruce, and David this summer, the first question people around our age asked was "Was John Stamos there?"  My father was the only one who asked "Who sang Carl and Brian's parts?"  

But even if the numbers are few, anything that brings new fans to the music of The Beach Boys is a positive.  Be it, seeing a Beach Boys Full House appearance in 1989, seeing it in syndication in 2015, or hearing Wouldn't It Be Nice on Stamos new show, Grandfathered.  

Hey Jude - let's dispense with your assumptions that I was always a fan.  I was an "observer."  And the reason I knew that the BB's were on TV is because my kids told me.  I didn't plop them in front of the screen and watch FH with them.  I had a working mother's duties, like laundry and lunches for the next day.  Two jobs.  They saw the BB's one night and hollered to me to come and watch them with Uncle Jesse.  It was a show that you could let your kids watch without violence. I became a fan when I watched the way in which he showed enormous kindness to special needs kids and adults.  

You think the comparison is silly? As a teen I watched the whole scenario evolve.  And now, "new" evidence that exonerates the work of Pet Sounds  has cropped up. Conveniently.  Not then. They were thrown under the bus by the record company.

Some rock critics are paid to review and they have their favorites.  During the late 60's it was rare to find a favorable review.  And I'd say that FH "exposed" millions of viewers to the music.  Thirty years of global syndication.  In the States, it gets no fewer than four hours a day on Nick, both east and west.  An Uncle Jesse shirt in 2015 is an uncontravertable  indicator of a young market share. Even now.  Especially now.

The argument fails.  :lol

GF has explained the contradiction of the 1980s-1990s period well: It was the archival 1960s BBs vs. the watered down brand still touring with Stamos.

The past glories vs. the present miseries.....

And that would include Stamos performing with both Carl and Brian. Those miseries?

In my opinion, several thousand. I also think this ultimately led to several thousand fans discovering Pacific Ocean Blue.
[/quote]

We're lucky then that we weren't subsequently gifted with a fully-redone version of the album, which could have been titled "Pacific Ocean Stamos".

CD, let me get a barf-bag, :-\

Yes, all of the BBs including Brian and Carl participated in some miserable stuff in the 80s and 90s. If, and I stress *IF* we are placing blame in that regard, some goes onto all of the group members including Brian and Carl. Less so on Brian I suppose since he wasn't regularly touring, only made the one appearance on Full House, didn't appear on "SIP" at all, and his most active participation we know of in terms of doing anything with Stamos was relegated to a blurry camcorder video shot in a hotel room in Canada in 1990.

Clearly there is a divide between different types of fans. Some who celebrate their pre-80s output aren't fans of the cheese machine they grew into in the 80s and 90s. Stamos was a part of that, but not the only part. And again, Stamos himself said in an interview that he's very aware of this divide. I think he even at least partially understands it. His comments have been contradictory. He cited "hardcore Brian Wilson fans s***ting on me", but then also admitted he would be annoyed if he saw Scott Baio jump on stage at a concert.

Let me also be clear. The aforementioned "divide" isn't a huge deal that causes daily acrimony among BB fans. But when someone asks a provocative question about Stamos, these divides may be cited.

Yes, your "Pet Sounds" comparison strikes me as confused and convoluted at best, and laughable at worst. It implies that a similar "re-assessment" of anything to do with "Summer in Paradise" or something Stamos-related will take place. It seems to imply some sort of parity between the two scenarios. There is none, other than both examples concern the Beach Boys.

I don't know what else to do with continued anecdotes. I know numerous people who think "Full House" is insipid, Stamos a hack, and most everything the Beach Boys did in the 80s and 90s to be sub-par. That doesn't prove anything either.

Stamos's impact on the band can't be measured. It's only his proponents ("millions of new fans!!!!!") trying to make any assertions as to his impact on the band.

I think some industry and press/media folks could offer some insights into why critics find Stamos and his connection to the band execrable. But that's just anecdotal mostly as well, albeit perhaps with more credentials or experience. Maybe.

I've only offered one measure of his clearly *not* having any positive impact on the band in the form of the miserable performance of "SIP." It's possible he *hurt* sales, but I can't prove that, and I don't think that's particularly the case. I think the BBs were passé at the time (again), and it didn't help that the album was a trainwreck in most every way imaginable (and I'm someone who thinks a handful of the songs are catchy!), had little input from Carl and Bruce, less from Al, and none from Brian.

Pacific Ocean Stamos (1995) - recorded just after Full House ends its remarkable run.

Tracklisting:

1. Kimmy Gibbler Song

2. What’s Long? (Full House’s 8-Season Run!)

3. Comet Barks at the Moonshine

4. ABC’s TGIF Night

5. Dreaming of Becky

6. Thoughts of Coulier

7. Tanner Time

8. You and DUI

9. Pacific Ocean Stamos

10. Michelle, My Friend

11. Rebecca Romijnbows

12. End of the Show (Full House Gets Cancelled)

CD!!!!!!!!! :lol

What defies logic for me on this forum is that looking back to the 60's and 70's BB fans were conscious of others who were like minded and looked at the music. They didn't get into these factions.  And I'd bet that even OSD would agree.  If you found anyone who liked the BB music, you tolerated their points of view.  Not here.  And the "revisionist spin" is insufferable.  You weren't a Brian fan or a Dennis fan.  You were a Beach Boys' fan.  There was no faction.  And if you hoped for anything it might be to "see Brian" at least once.  

Social media has made some of this division or factionalized fan base escalate.

http://youtu.be/8jmUNTbGGJM

Hope it copies.  It is from the same month in 1990.

In my opinion, not unlike in politics, Stamos gave "name recognition" for a new fan base.  For some as CD suggested "Forever" opened the door to learning more about Dennis.  And how does that translate? I'm guess that is were the division is. And, it really isn't worth a hill of beans. If you hate him, just say so;  it is just easier than trying to change facts or circumstances.  

Here's your album cover:

(https://jimwarrenstudio.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/john-stamos-wall-of-fame-dopo-teatro-9-09.jpg?w=600&h=762)

I bet there is one in Mike Love's house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Holy moly that is sooo perfect. It looks inspired by the SIP artwork (seriously!)

Who is trying to change facts? The only "fact" I've cited is that "Summer in Paradise" is the band's worst-selling, lowest-charting original studio album of their career. A fact which has been continually ignored by you.

I don't think anyone here "hates" Stamos. They simply don't prefer his actual musical connections to the Beach Boys.

I could offer the same sort of retort: If you like him so much and want to ignore the artistic (and commercial) low point he contributed to with the band, then just say so.

You know, I almost would have preferred the band did backing vocals on this project in 1995/1996, as opposed to Stars and Stripes.

No, the analogy is a déjà vu.  It is a "this too, shall pass."

If we live wondering and worrying about what others think, it is a miserable life.  It was new technology.  They took their shot.   And those industry people come and go with the tides, making a living on the talents of others.  The real artists.

You are railing against Stamos' success.  I like SIP because it has a few songs I like a lot, and because it is one of the last works Carl was involved in.  If you have a problem with that...well, I have no response. Lahaina Aloha is brilliant.

Everyone knows about the "Paley Sessions", but much less is known about the "Stamos Sessions."

Don Was says he wishes he would have captured this for a follow-up documentary.....

(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-PN018079.jpg?size=67&uid=3bf38653-e870-4e13-9b44-dc48d8249f7e)

I think the reason for less "factions" back then is that there was far less transparency about the goings-on regarding the band and bandmembers back then, pre-internet, compared to today.  There are a heck of a lot of things that the band and individual band members would have gotten FAR more flak for if they happened today.

If people knew then what they know now, I think that not only would the deeper divide have started earlier, but I think that history would have turned out quite differently, because public opinion is a powerful thing.

Great photo.  Stamos looks as though he is in awe.  I like it.  Thanks!  ;)

Yes, it likely would have been very different.  Murry would never have gotten away with that abuse.  Capitol would not have gotten away with non-promotion and promotion of the band post Pet Sounds as a "surf band" from the early 60's. 

The royalties would have likely been appropriately apportioned.  Landy would likely have gone to jail.

Personally, I think SIP would've been a dud with or without the John Stamos track. 

Especially when you consider the musical climate of the time.  It was 1992.  Grunge was becoming the next new time.  Dreary and dark stuff.  Rap was really starting to break into the mainstream.  The record buying public at large wasn't interesting in carefree summertime stuff from a bunch of old guys.  If people wanted carefree music, they'd turn to Billy Ray Cyrus that year. 

I also think it's kinda cool that Mike, Al, Carl, Brian, and Bruce show up on TV Land once every three or four weeks. 

You're not getting the point, which is evident by your limiting Stamos' influence to his performing "Forever" on one episode of Full House and his connection with the worst album in the Beach Boys' history.

First of all, John Stamos had a couple of TV shows. I remember taping the episode of You Again with the Beach Boys performing "California Dreamin'" and "Surfin' U.S.A." - and memorizing it! But, regarding Full House, there were several reasons that people watched Full House. Maybe they thought Lori Loughlin was hot, or Candace Cameron was cute, or the Olsen twins were adorable, or Bob Sagat was funny, or maybe because the show was good family entertainment. The audience's attraction is not limited to John Stamos. Multiply that by the number of Beach Boys' songs performed on those shows. Now mulitply that by thirty years of continuous broadcasting of the show(s) worldwide. You are cutting things off 25 years ago. The influence is still ongoing today. It wasn't just limited to one Stamos performance of "Forever" back in 1992. All it takes is/was for one of those songs - one time - to "hook" somebody. Why is that so hard to fathom? The Beach Boys' music does that to people.

And, it wasn't that just one song or performance directly resulted in a potential fan purchasing SIP or Still Cruisin' or the boxed set. But, it surely led them there. Use "Forever" as an example. So somebody hears "Forever" on Full House and looks into the song. They see that it appears on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2fer, but they don't know any of the other songs. Same with SIP. However, they also see that "Forever" appears on the boxed set, and hey, they heard of  "Surfin' U.S.A." and "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Good Vibrations" and several others, and Amazon just happens to running a sale on boxed sets. Bingo...sale! And a new fan is born.

This is especially relevant with downloading and iTunes and the like. Some kid is watching Full House, hears "Kokomo" or "Forever" or "Be True To Your School", likes it, goes on iTunes and sees all of these Beach Boys tunes with familiar titles, and the next thing you know, they not only purchased "Kokomo", but ten other Beach Boys' tunes. And, yet another new fan is born.

Why? Because they saw or heard a Beach Boys' on a John Stamos-related TV show. Stamos might not have been the one performing it, he might not have been the reason they were even watching the show in the first place, but he's the one who brought the Beach Boys' music to the show. And, you know what I don't understand, Hey Jude? Why people aren't thanking Stamos for it, instead of finding every way possible to criticize him. Actually, I DO know why people on this board are critical of Stamos. Sorry for the rhetorical question.

Using your logic, SIP would have outsold Kokomo. ::)

The scenarios you describe sound totally plausible. I have no reason to believe those scenarios didn’t happen. I’ve never disagreed with that. I just think the magnitude of it is being overstated, and conveniently so considering it can’t be measured. The chain of events you describe is something that sounds totally plausible when we’re talking about anecdotes, and sounds rather implausible if we’re talking on a massive scale.

Again, there are all sorts of tangents and influences that turn people on to a band. Stamos and “Full House” was one of them. McCartney was another. American Graffiti. Maybe some Nate Ruess fans are now into the BBs, and so on. There are a million examples.

Considering his “impact” on the group in terms of fans is not quantifiable, and that many BB fans are not fans of his ego-driven, gate-crashing presence on various BB projects (though mostly the live shows), and that the “Full House” association does have some negative connotations to some folks in some aspects, I think an argument can be made that while Stamos has surely netted more fans that he has literally discouraged to the point of no longer being a fan, his overall presence in the BB world as he himself has established it is a net negative to the band and its legacy.

*That’s* why I don’t think fans need to be lining up thanking him. We shouldn’t be lining up to attack him either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to debate those who are, in my opinion, trying to overstate the “millions of fans” he has brought on board.

I can state, without question, that I absolutely have met several people who, when I tell them about my BB fandom, they immediately dismiss it (and their reasoning drifts into mentioning Full House!) So for better or worse, the mega-cheesy connections with that show are without a doubt a factor in some people dismissing the band.  

That is not a negligible occurrence. It's legitimately a problem, at least on some level. We can debate *how* big a problem it is, but it cannot be qualified as a non-issue.

It's not like Davy Jones appearing once on a single Brady Bunch episode either... the BBs appeared many times on Full House, and kept reminding the world of the connection to Full House via the actor from the show, over and over again.  One can say "well, those people are snobs", but for better or worse, they were turned off (and understandably so, as I would probably be turned off by a famous band if I wasn't familiar with their deeper cuts, and kept being reminded of their repeated, incessant connections to The Wiggles, for example).

So lets not fool ourselves into thinking that there isn't fallout and damage that happened (and continues to happen) because of the never ending Stamos connection. Full House is considered nearly on par with The Wiggles by many people, and it can be too big a cheesy roadblock for a good number of people to look past. Their loss, yes. But at the same time, it's Mike's fault for wanting the band's connection to a mediocre actor (though a nice guy, I'm sure) and his crappy show to go on and on and on and on. The connection is pimped out to the degree of PROMOTIONAL PHOTOS being taken! It's lunacy!

But hey - if it keeps away the "snobby" contingent of fans, that may in fact be what Mike (and Bruce) desire - the "normal" crowd. Stamos may in fact inadvertently function as hipster repellent.

All that said, I don't have any big issue with the guy, he doesn't make me cringe at this point, I just am bugged that other people are more dismissive of the band. Once you are a superfan and can legitimately find some pleasure in songs like Problem Child, Stamos is just par for the course.

My last word on the subject as I have nothing else to add and I have to get the kids ready for trick or treating...

I did not say/write "millions of fans". I wrote "over a million".

 :lol

having Stamos around only contributes to the farce that is the touring band.

the current situation of Mike & Bruce performing as The Beach Boys with frequent Stamos appearances would be akin to Paul and Ringo performing as The Beatles with frequent Joey Lawrence appearances. it wouldn't sit well with most people, whether they're fans or not. for damn good reason.

(http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/d54d3385fa8a4869a2b906f260c7d380.jpg)

anyone have that mike love "let's get a vegetarian pizza" gif handy? if it weren't for stamos we wouldnt have that gif. for that, i thank him

Or a bit like ALF joining the Ramones?

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2q3aecz.jpg)

 :lol

HA! is right  ;)

I am sad that Screech never crashed Beastie Boys shows.

I have to side with the Sheriff on this one. 

While it would be near impossible to truly determine how many more fans John Stamos brought to The Beach Boys, it seems fairly obvious that he's done far more good than harm to the legacy of The Beach Boys. 

Dave Coulier, on the other hand, has had almost zero impact.  Did he even have a line in that Beach Boy Bingo episode? 

I believe Stamos has helped with BBs' exposure but imo people only buy BBs' product because they like the product not because they were exposed to it on TV or radio or a video or movie.

That's partly true, but in this day and age, a well placed song in a movie or TV show can do wonders for a band's career. 

When Journey's Don't Stop Believin was used on the finale of The Sopranos, that became the number 1 song on iTunes.

Europe's The Final Countdown has been used in a Geico ad, and downloads of that song have skyrocketed. 

Maybe a few of those fans dive deeper into the catalog, start buying concert tickets, full albums, etc. 

If you take personal opinion and bias out of the equation, you can deny that Stamos in almost three decades has helped expose many people to Beach Boys music. 

I think we are agreeing.

People were exposed to the song on TV etc. but they download/buy it because they like it, not because it was on TV etc..  I don't have a study or anything but from my own experience, I am exposed to lots of songs on equally popular TV and movies but most don't strike my fancy so I don't bother to download them or even seek more info on the song or band. I didn't dislike it because it was on a popular show/movie and I don't like songs that I see/hear on TV/movies just because they are on a show/movie. The shows only bring the songs to my awareness and then I either like or dislike them.  Maybe it's just me.

i don't think anyone is denying that. does it give him the right to perform as a member of the band and appear in their promotional photos?

sure doesn't, but we live in a world where Brian Wilson is not nearly as welcome at a Beach Boys concert as John Stamos. and really only one person to thank for it.

But Stamos didn't just come along in the M&B Years - he was there when Carl and Al were active in the group - and Brian occasionally. So your comparison would only hold if Joey Lawrence had also jammed with George...and maybe John.

the point is that a teen idol actor has no place in a legendary band

What if said legendary band was made up of teen idols?

then maybe they could all start a sit-com together

Mike Love is no teen idol. :o

But it's ok for actor Steve Martin to play bluegrass on banjo with Edie Brickell, Steel Canyon Ranchers and Martin Short on tour, or  former President Bill Clinton to jam on sax on Arsenio Hall or with indie electronica band M83?

Everyone has to stay "in their place?"

Seriously.  :lol

Right, and never was back in the day either. He conjured up the older uncle or perhaps grandfather image that made him not fit in with the rest of the group.  :old

While Dennis was the man!

This post actually clarified the Stamos controversy to me. I think the fans' reaction to the guest celebrity depends on their feelings for the band compared to their feelings for the guest celebrity. If the guest celebrity causes an "ugh" feeling and the band causes a "yay!" then the fan will not be happy with the guest celebrity. But if the guest celebrity also causes a "yay!" then the fan will be happy.
I think the Clinton references are not comparable because they were one-offs, but if Steve Martin actually tours with Edie Brickell and is at times treated like a quasi band member, I think some people would be excited by that and some put off. Similar with Stamos. If a BB fan has as much of a "yay" for Stamos as the BBs, then happy. I think Stamos has a more mixed public reception than Steve Martin and there are a lot of people who think of Stamos more along the lines of Joey Lawrence, so they think his presence is more of an "ugh" - that he brings down the band and its reputation.

This Steve Martin and Edie Brickell vs Stamos and the Beach Boys 'comparison' may well be the absolute weakest argument I have EVER seen in any forum dealing with ANY topic whatsoever on-line... ... ...and I do mean ANY TOPIC...ever.

A quick comparison of the Brickell and Beach Boys discography suggests not a b or c player but really an x or y player going head to head with the A-team.  Even if the wild and crazy guy re-donned the arrow through his noggin and somehow wormed his way onto an awful Edie Brickell album in order to sing lead on 'What I Am' [and further murder it to shreds] there would be NO comparison to be made.

But hey!!!  Now that ol' Steve's a well known New Bohemian around 'these parts'...let's get him properly shellacked and 'corked' and give him some car keys.

Geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  The ends some will go to to completely and totally miss making ANY KIND OF A valid POINT. ::)

It's  :lol able.

Hey, I totally agree that Stamos is nowhere near the caliber of Steve Martin. I just don't know if everyone agrees on that.
I don't know anything about Stamos' musicianship. I know Steve Martin is an excellent banjo player.
I don't know anything about Edie Brickell fans and how serious they are about her work.
I have no idea how much time Martin spends with Brickell on the road or in studio.
My furthering the comparison would only be based on a bunch of ifs: if one is a die-hard I-take-Edie-Brickells-music-very-seriously and if I want to hear her music undiluted and if Steve Martin (whom in this scenario "I" don't have a lot of appreciation for) repeatedly shows up and distracts from and dilutes the music, then it won't please me.
My personal opinion, if Edie Brickell fans are lucky enough to get a live guest spot from Steve Martin, they should be thrilled and I'm jealous. And if I see the Beach Boys and Stamos is there diluting and distracting, I'd be irritated.
To me, Stamos is hacky and schmaltzy and brings the rep. of the Beach Boys down, but I think there are authentic Stamos fans out there who are probably happy about his presence.

Though also, I really enjoyed your post. It cracks me up. But only, I think, because I'm where you are with Edie Brickell. But maybe she has a die-hard following (?)

Geez...I thought I'd put it more clearly.  In this argument neither Martin or Stamos mean a whole lot.  They're just potential ink stains on the sheet music.   It's the stature and discography and legacy of the Beach Boys towering sky high while down there at the foot of the awe-inspiring skyscraper, barely ever even noticed, toils teenie-weenie little Edie.

I think your point about Stamos fans is valid.  BUT...I'll bet they're fans of his TV show...NOT of his Beach Boy-itis.

Ok. I agree with that too. But I leave room for people who don't take the Beach Boys very seriously (of which there are many) and for those who take Edie Brickell seriously (of which I have no idea). I know of a few bands that are barely noticed that I would be very upset if John Stamos started showing up all over the place.
I think I'm perhaps being a little selfish though and thinking about how the celebrity guest would affect my personal enjoyment rather than general reputation. General reputation: stamos brings BBs down and Martin can only bring Brickell's up - because it's almost nonexistent.
Edited to add: yes, I totally missed focus on my first reply to your post. Sorry about that. I think I'm actually a little more exercised by the comparison of stamos to Martin than Brickell to BBs. People who are into M&B BBs I assume are going for the fun, fun, fun while I'm assuming that if Brickell is drawing an audience at this time it's because she's done some work that I don't know of that might be really good.

Sad world where Stamos is more welcome than BW& Al to tour under the BBs name.

This is true.

That's interesting.  Video footage of him has him pantomiming away like crazy and making out like he's really hot.  I sort of assumed he was considered cool, but not even in 1964? 

This is an interesting question, though off-topic, and I wonder if any historians can pitch in. It doesn't seem like there was much marketing, pre-Beatles, of the BBs as teen idols and that after the Beatles came along they tried but, other than with Dennis, had little success. Is it accurate that there was little effort in this direction pre-Beatles?
My impression is Elvis Presley had his own team doing that and that for the most part music companies didn't do heart-throb marketing. That this sort of marketing mostly took place for musicians who crossed over into TV and movies.  Until the Beatles.
Perhaps a new thread?

Ouch. When one looks at it that way, it's a painful pill to swallow.

big difference. Steve Martin is actually a quite talented musician and songwriter who was playing the banjo before his comedy career took off, and he incorporated the banjo into his act basically from the beginning. he treats the music with respect and reverence, which is not something you would expect from a zany comedian such as he.

meanwhile, Stamos is content to ham it up onstage with Mike and Bruce while the actual musicians do all the work. we've seen the photos where his guitar is not even plugged in. his drumming is barely passable and most of us have heard the stories of Carl rolling his eyes while Stamos did his schtick.

Bill Clinton? you can probably count the number of times he has blown sax in public on one hand. he is the epitome of cameo appearances. no comparison whatsoever, especially since he can actually play.

your constant gushing and rushing to the defense of "uncle Jesse" is so predictable, so played out. we get it. you're a female and you find him attractive. he got The Beach Boys on TV in the 80s and has therefore earned the right to perform with the band indefinitely and appear in their promo shots, unlike the actual musicians in the group.

seriously. :lol

Hey!  wait a minute bossy!  Your assuming that all females, or at least the one in question, like Stamos.  It might come as a surprise to you to know that not all women go for weedy, swarthy, oily haired guys.  A brain helps, and I'm not so sure in this instance we have a whole one in action....

John Stamos earned the right to perform with The Beach Boys because he was invited to do so. He was invited and he accepted the invitation. It must be OK with Brian Wilson because I don't see him doing anything to stop it. If Brian Wilson was really concerned about the "blight" Stamos was bringing to The Beach Boys, why doesn't he do something to stop it. Brian's probably just interested in collecting a check for doing nothing. Why ruin a good thing, huh? Brian has had years, decades now, to keep Stamos off of The Beach Boys' stage. Actually, wasn't Stamos invited to Brian and Melinda Ledbetter's wedding?

And, speaking of years, it's now been three years since Brian was fired from The Beach Boys by Mike Love. Remember, Brian didn't contest it because the litigation would've taken years. If Brian (and Al) would've asked the judge for a quick resolution/verdict, do you think three years would've been enough time? Oh yeah, it was those damn attorney's fees, too.

Yeah, old Carl used to roll his eyes at Stamos. As I recall, Carl used to be quite...concerned...at his brother Brian's performance on stage, both vocally and instrumentally. Anybody remember that? Wasn't it Carl who insisted that Brian give up bass playing live? Carl's been gone seventeen years now, but I'll betcha John Stamos has improved his musicianship over the last twenty years, unlike Brian Wilson, who has sadly regressed. It's very difficult for Brian now to play piano and sing at the same time. Oh, occasionally he'll play and sing at the same time, but it's actually kind of rare...

Wait, you're actually blaming Brian Wilson for Mike Love wanting Stamos to perform with his licensed touring outfit? Some sad regression going on indeed.

Pretty weird stuff even for you, SJS. The last few shows I saw, BW was singing and playing quite a lot more keys throughout. They were even audible! He's definitely stepped up since Nurse Foskett moved on. But yeah, twist and turn and bring in your petty resentments against the Wilsons to center stage -- it's a lot easier than defending the sheer goofiness of John Stamos playing with the Beach Boys instead of BW and AJ.

Deleted

Costs aside, do you honestly think that Brian *wants* to bear the potential emotional burden of a lawsuit if he had tried to do anything about it? Are you gonna honestly say that desiring to avoid that would be a 100% negligible factor? Of course that's - at the very least - a *part *of why such a situation was allowed to happen and not be fought. Are you honestly gonna dispute that?

At the point of the Stamos indoctrination into the band, Brian was in Landy's clutches. While Stamos had been associated with the band somewhat before Kokomo, once Kokomo happened, Mike obviously gained a greater measure of control (even if unofficial, not contractual control)... So it's not like Brian ever was a big cheerleader for actively having Stamos being a regular part of the band.  

That said, Stamos seems like a super nice guy, and I don't for a moment doubt that he in fact is - so I can't imagine there's any huge push on Brian's side to remove him from the band - except, perhaps behind the scenes during C50, because I'll bet that if it were have been solely up to Mike, Stamos would have been at every single show.

It's not like continuing to have Stamos associated with the band is a "huge" blight *at this point*... because with decades of super cheesy stuff under the the band's name, like Problem Child, Summer in Paradise, Baywatch, etc... it's not the same as a band with much better quality control (ie The Beatles) one day dropping the ball by going on tour with Joey Lawrence. The world at large and most of the BB audience has acclimated to the cheese level that they've done under the band name. So once it's looked at in that way, Stamos' becomes *relatively* more negligible and benign, because truth be told, he probably brings in a segment of people to some of the shows. Or maybe his presence causes more attractive ladies to mingle backstage, which might literally be one of the main reasons for him continuing to be present - I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it.

As I've mentioned before, Stamos never having gone away from the band (unlike cheesy songs like Problem Child, which were released, then disappeared and are largely forgotten)...the neverending association with the BBs and Full House is akin to Pink Floyd being repeatedly (for decades) associated with The Wiggles, or perhaps having Led Zeppelin associated with Barney the Dinosaur, and The Ramones with ALF... and I know FOR A FACT that the neverending Stamos conection turns a segment (we can debate how big a segment, but an actual, non-negligible segment) of people off to the band, as I've met MULTIPLE people who have personally told me that, without being prompted in any way about Stamos.  And frankly, maybe they are being music snobs, but it bugs me that the band is regularly dismissed like that. The BBs brand deserves to be regarded far better, but you get what you give.

Maybe it turns out to be a wash, with the people Stamos brings onboard being roughly equal in quantity to the people he turns off. I don't know if that's quite accurate though. I'd just much rather the band be taken more seriously.

I thought he was a 'square' Bonnie.  No...that doesn't spell it out accurately.  I thought he was a goof...as the 'front man'.  Even back then...dating back to the first live album...and TV appearances.  He just seemed out of place and out of step with the group.  The girls, I think, thought that Dennis was 'the man'.  He was certainly ten tons cooler.  That's for sure.  And for my tastes the BAND worked far better in terms of credibility when Carl took charge of the stage presentation.  Carl was also cool.  Mike was like an overdone rooster with coordination issues and an awful sense for what to say when on stage.  He still isn't much of an orator.  Words don't come easy.  Amd he's a lyricist?    :o

In my opinion, the "emotional burden' would be minimal.  As I posted/opined before, any litigation that involved taking the license back from Mike would've been largely a financial dispute, which is the reason for almost every dispute in the history of the Beach Boys. If it was true - and I don't necessarily believe it - Mike left several large "deals" on the table and potentially "hurt the brand" by reverting to touring without Brian and Al, thus keeping BRI from maximizing profit. It's a matter of dollars and cents, lost revenue if you will. The court case would've involved testimony from promoters, accountants, and actuaries - not Brian Wilson or Al Jardine.

I don't think it ever would've come to this, but it would've been a huge mistake for Brian's handlers to claim that Brian wanted to continue to tour because he was having fun, fun, fun. An email to Mike Love stating otherwise, Brian's on-stage "behavior" at concerts (like the one I attended where he tried to bolt the stage, only to be "intercepted" by Jeff Foskett), and testimony from other witnesses (doctors?) who might've seen some physical/emotional exhaustion after seventy-five shows would've been reasons to not go there.

Brian probably could've gotten away with a deposition and that would've been entirely composed by an attorney. Actually, I think Brian would have to ask his attorney if he even wanted to know how things were going as I don't think he would've ever entered a courtroom. And, if this litigation was begun in 2012 when "the sh-- hit the fan", it would've been settled by now. 

You might as well throw in mock-concern for his back pain and appropriate chairs at concerts!


Yeah, your incredibly vicious, demeaning post shows how concerned you are with emotional burdens on Brian Wilson. Again painting him like some helpless vegetable carted around by handlers. Pffft. Nonsense. It's 2015 -- good luck trying to push that narrative and not come off looking like a repulsive, uncaring bastard and pointlessly cruel to someone coping with mental illness. While being productive as f*** at the same time! So he doesn't play 160 shows a year, big deal. He's got music to record and a huge family that he doesn't need to run away from, fire, or excommunicate all the time.

Have you ever been in a protracted legal tangle with a family member? Don't be ridiculous. Of course it's a horrible, constant drain. So the Loves can celebrate, they "won." They prevailed over some dead cousins, Al Jardine, and Brian Wilson. "Yay." To the baseball capped with an appetite for legal bullying go the spoils!

The next real fight will be that horrible time when the principals die and it's their estates battling out for licensing The Foskett and Stamos Boys. That is gonna be U-G-L-Y.

(http://workplace.dispatch.com/content/graphics/2014/07/29/1aa-beach-boys-bjp-06.jpg)(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gevmDTmGIHU/hqdefault.jpg)

An Evening with The Beach Boys(TM)

UK fans might complain about the recent leg of BW's tour there cancelled, but you guys are SO lucky to have Stamos permanently off the menu.

I don't think being a former teen idol is the problem people have with Stamos. If Rick Nelson had been invited to sit in with the band in the 70's or 80's, I doubt anyone would be complaining.

Some people really know how to overreact to a D-list actor popping up at gigs and playing on a few songs.

How is it "fairly obvious?" Youve offered no actual proof, just speculation and what you want/think to be true. Just because a show was on TV for awhile and they cameo'd that means nothing, not to mention what others have said about the album they cut with him being their worst, anyone who'd buy a BB album wouldve done so regardless, etc.


Agreed. Maybe a one-off tour or something, but hardly as a regular member. Especially if said teen idol has no discernible music talent.


It really is bizarre and depressing, when you put it that way. And its absolutely true.


Mike Love was never cool. His shtick was always corny, IMHO his lyrics were almost always corny, and he doesnt have the "hot" factor that Dennis, Grace Slick, Jim Morrison, Syd Barrett and Jimi Hendrix have. He became the front man more by default than because he was the best for the job.


Indeed. And besides, its irrelevant. The point is Brian IS the Beach Boys. They wouldnt have existed or made it big without him. All the hits are at least 50% his, their universally recognized best album is essentially a BW album featuring the Beach Boys, and the best songs they ever worked on are his and VDP's babies. If he EVER wants to tour with the band, either in 2012 or as a one-off even now, Mike should be thrilled and put him on without a question. Instead...well...thats not the case. But Stamos is a staple, despite having no real music talent and very little impact on the band's history or career and with a debatably detrimental net impact on their image. Makes no sense, no matter how you try to justify it.


I can corroborate this. I always got made fun of in high school when I mentioned Brian Wilson as my fave musician and Pet Sounds my fave album. People acted like I was crazy and must have horrible taste. Not just other young'ins eithers. Even now, among my adult co-workers and family, some laugh when I mention it. Its really upsetting, and while Stamos wasnt specifically mentioned, he obviously doesnt help. Im a fan and even I cringe watching those stupid Full House cameos. Even my mom and sister, who are fans, thought they were stupid and thought Mike was really creepy in the one episode he grabs DJ's hair.

Really, I think anyone discovering the band from Full House did so in spite of how cheesy and stupid those actual appearances were, not because of them.


IDK, man. With this and your other posts, I think you're kinda grasping at straws on this. Nothing in this proves that Stamos had any impact on the Band's popularity--because by any discernible measure, he didnt. This is all speculation, anecdotal evidence and reaching. Im sure he turned a few people on over the years, but like Cam said, anyone who bought the songs or checked them out ultimately did so because they liked the songs, not because of Uncle Jessie. And considering how prevalent the BBs are, if not Full House, they wouldve discovered them eventually. I first really got into the Beach Boys finding an old tape in my mom's car, and later hearing a commercial on TV for a greatest hits comp. If it hadnt been for that, I wouldve discovered them later thru the radio--Full House even (yes, I watched it)--or within the past 5 years when I started really getting into Sixties albums and music history. To be fair, that last one happened mostly because of my interest in Pet Sounds and SMiLE, but I was also really into the Beatles for awhile back then too, so it wouldve happened either way.

This whole "Stamos introduced a whole new generation to the music!" thing is way overblown by my reckoning. Im sure he helped, but he also hindered by how cheesy he and the cameos and Full House in general are. It was a zero sum impact, Im willing to bet. And as the years go by and he's STILL doing shows, and his goofy persona is now part of their story, I really think he has a negative impact overall. Now its harder for future fans to just focus on the good stuff, without going "whos that? John Stamos? (googles him) Full House? Huh...a lame family sitcom no one over 12 likes? And the Boys did some cameos on it? Might as well check those out. (watches them) OMG kill me with a hammer."

Indeed. I never wouldve guessed this thread would go on for so long

Anybody know if The Beach Boys (well, Mike and Bruce) will appear in "Fuller House" next year?
At least, they never appeared on ER...

I had to look that up. Good GOD theyre making another one??? WHY??

Is Stamos in it? If yes, then Im sure they will. At least Mike. He doesnt seem to want to turn down any venue...except Madison Square Garden with Brian Wilson at least.

hey beebs!
i wasn't inferring that all females find him attractive, only that the ones who do tend to be women. no offense intended and i do appreciate your adamant and descriptive proclamation ;)

check out The Lost Concert. quick pans to the crowd reveal an audience  both amused and confused by the Lovester's dorky stage antics. cool he ain't.

Dennis on the other hand...

SJS saying John Stamos is a better musician than Brian Wilson. This board is officially f***ed by the kokomaoists. ::)

That is because when you strip everything away, this is just another thread to bash Mike Love. Stamos is just another excuse to do so. That is what this board...does.

No, not really. I think everyone here has been mostly on point. When a relevant point about Mike comes up, like his stage persona and weird willingness to tour with Stamos but not Brian, people weigh their opinions fairly. It IS weird that some random actor who let the band on his goofy show twice is now a regular while the founder and star of the band got kicked out against his will in 2012. Its also worth noting--since someone brought it up--that Mike is a goofball frontman and lacks that "cool" factor so many other frontmen and women have. Hes not dangerous or sexy like the ones I listed and a dozen others. Hes a cornball. It got brought up so its fair and relevant to weigh in my opinion.

The problem is, whether you like him or not, Mike's done a lot thru the years that warrants criticism and that criticism will inevitably surface on a discussion forum. Why people take it so personally or act like its trolling or hateful is beyond me, and the fact that certain people feel such a need to defend him and condemn anyone who says anything not 100% positive about him* is why every other thread here descends into the two camps arguing. Maybe if Mike didnt actually do so many questionable if not outright horrible things thru the years, he wouldnt get so much flak. Just a thought.

*This is so hypocritical too considering Mike himself isnt positive at all and brings up the Wilsons' personal problems/addictions at every opportunity even when asked what HE is most regretful for. Inexcusable then to turn that criticism around on us, for rightly calling out his own shortcomings when its relevant to the topic of discussion

Its insanity from the biggest slimeball in rock and roll, Mike Love. He loves the M&B setup since he kicked out all the other members that founded the band and can run things his way. Stamos is only there to help pick up women for the wine drinking party after the show.

Seriously, first I've seen Steve Martin. Going back to his early days in comedy. He used the banjo as part of his act.  I see little difference and that is a matter of personal taste. Many men don't like him. I wonder why.

Second, the character Stamos played in FH had a band. Even playing with some of the long BB backing band musicians, including Gary Griffin who was in L & M.

Third I don't appreciate the sexist remarks. Yes, women are outnumbered on this forum, but that should not diminish their viewpoints. I thought I was clear earlier when I said I "became a Stamos fan 'after' I saw the way in which he showed extraordinary kindness to special needs kids and adults." I "followed his career." There is a difference.

SJS, name the handlers you saw at your C50 show.

The band survived decades of public display of its own embarrassing behaviors, I doubt the occasional appearance with a handsome well known uber fan is a problem with the band's image/legacy.

All good bossy, just reminding you not to pigeonhole all us women in together.  That would be like, I don't know, clumping all you Americans together...     Looking back on previous posts, you might be on to something with whoever you were addressing.

Lee, it's GREAT to know that the whole ML pantomiming thing never got off the ground.  Somebody mentioned his 'uncle' look, even then.  I get that.  :)  It must be great to get around so blissfully unaware of oneself.  If I could just have a dose of that for one day.  

Chick with the rainbow hair, I just don't tell people I'm into TBB.  It would never be understood.  (When pressured once I said; "Oh, you probably won't know him, one of the greatest composers of the 21st century, Brian Wilson."   The reply; "Yeah, you're right.  I'm not into that kind of music."

Chick with the blonde hair, yeah Ive learned to do that as well. Just use the name Brian Wilson, not the Beach Boys. Or talk about SMiLE not as "a lost Beach Boys album that couldve changed rock history" but as "a lost psychedelic album as far out as anything Pink Floyd or Jimi ever did, in its own unique way." Still irritating that once they learn the "truth" a lot of them never make an effort to listen. f*** people sometimes.


Really? An A-list (or former anyway) actor in tons of household name movies, big for decades, iconic roles...is the same as Uncle Jessie?? What else has he been in since Full House? Nothing worth noting. Ok, so Uncle Jessie had a band. They sounded terrible in the show, were never successful in the show, were mostly a background plot device to show that Jessie was "cool"* and thats it. I really dont see how that somehow justifies the lame, forced cameos, or his reappearance in their tours.

*as in, a ten year old's idea of "cool"

I agree that making assumptions about you because of your gender was out of line. But whether it be attraction or respect for his work with kids, it seems like youre giving the guy extra brownie points and not looking at the whole situation objectively.

When musicals were the mainstay of Hollywood, most did both acting and music.  When musicals went out of favor, actors did one thing or another, generally.  It isn't like an HBO series or made for TV business model.  Then it seemed mid 60's as though that concept of an actor doing anything related to music, was foreign. There was less of a crossover.  I never said Stamos was a movie A-lister but he does come with credentials.

Any show 30 years in global, not just US syndication is not nothing.   It is a sign of some type of business success whether people think he is cool now, or not.  I find him to be a decent human being. And yes, he gets big brownie points for treating special needs kids and adults with such kindness, that I found rarer in the world of education.   He isn't patronizing with them, but genuinely nice.  Yes, big brownie points. And, I'm a very tough grader.  :lol

Didn't you know Jessie and the Rippers had a number one record in Japan with "Forever"? Want to to talk about a group that was never shown as successful on their own tv show? Talk Monkees. 4 guys sharing a beach front apartment, always looking for work, can't even pay the rent on time.

Listen, you all can argue all you want about the Stamos hypothetical, but the fact is, he's real. I can prove it: today I submitted an online form for an estimate for tree-trimming. To my delight, the auto-reply was from none other than [a] John Stamos. I like to think it's the John Stamos. Seems like an odd autumn gig for the guy, but hey, none of my business...

Sheriff, explain exactly what happened between Jeff and BW at the C50 show you saw?

Ok, first of all youre focusing on one throwaway line at the expense of the whole of my post.

Second, they were still unsuccessful for the majority of the shows run, the same song only went #99 in the US, they never had another hit and they kicked him out of his own band.

Third, youve got me recalling fucking Full House. I now hate you.

I have no idea what youre going on about in this first paragraph, or how its relevant.

Yes, it is. One hit show and nothing else of note? Lightning in a bottle, right place at the right time, not indicitive of his particular strength or charisma as an actor. Your point about "business success" would be better aimed at the showrunners, unless youre seriously equating that show's success to Uncle Jessie alone? Im willing to bet money the show would be just as successful if someone else played Uncle Jessie. I could be wrong, and I dont care, the point is to act like John Stamos himself is some guru of business is ludicrous.

Thats great you like him. Good for you, and Im not trying to convince you not to. The point is, this idea he revitalized the Beach Boys is insane. People see what they want to see "oh well he turned ME on, so it mustve been the case for others!" and "well, the show was popular, so it mustve turned MILLIONS on to the music" Theres no proof of any of it, just speculation and anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking. As others have said, the success of the GV boxset was due to SMiLE material and wanting all the old hits in one place. The album that had his Forever song was their worst selling and worst critically. You dont see anyone clammering for more Stamos in the live shows--except horny women, because hes the only handsome guy on a stage of 70 year old men. This isnt being mean, its just the way it is. And again, for few anecdotes of him turning people on, theres just as many if not more of him turning people off. And the bizarre situation of a goofy 80s actor being a mainstay over the founder, its bad for their image. Imagine as others have said, Pink Floyd with Screech or The Beatles with Corey Feldmen. Its a joke.

Did I say that Stamos revitalized them? No.

Did they require revitalization? Surely not.

He was, and is a "guest."

Few point of view are changed on this forum. 

His YouTube of Forever has over a million hits.  Not insignificant even if SIP did poorly in terms of sales. 

Thats the whole point of this thread. If youre not arguing for one side or the other, why even post here? Its nice you like him, and Im glad to hear hes a sweet guy. But all that does is drag the conversation off in a tangent.

Actually, Id say they did. Their career was hitting a renewed slump. I think the GV boxset and two-fers did more to help with renewed interest than a few cheap plugs, lame cameos and a lousy rerecording on Full House tho.

Ive changed my mind about a lot of things, actually. Certain SMiLE related stuff, was convinced to check out some of their later albums Id previously written off like Holland, and while you wouldnt know it by a lot of my posts, my view on Mike has even softened a lot. Im receptive to strong arguments tho, not "oh but hes such a nice guy" which in the grand scheme of things means nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmgJAGpHOek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmgJAGpHOek) So does this video of an asian giant hornet in a box. So does a lot of things. And who actually bought the album or lists that as one of their favorite songs? Very very few if any. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_EdzOSSDV0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_EdzOSSDV0) This is one of the worst songs ever and it has over two million views. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBYV_7a0FQs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBYV_7a0FQs) Theres another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHS8hj4TdT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHS8hj4TdT8) and another. Youtube views mean almost nothing. This is anecdotal evidence, but my sister and some cousins still unashamedly love Full House and even they say they hated that music video and thought it was cringe-worthy. I hate the show and I agree wholeheartedly.

Mujan - I post here because it is a "community of interest" for music I love and there are many scholars and hands on eyewitnesses/actual support musicians who witnessed this great part of music in American society.  It accompanied me through high school, college, grad school, post grad, careerhood and parenthood, etc.

FH was not my favorite show. That would probably be inappropriate as a parent, or teacher. My kids watched it. My students watched it.  My music experience was in real time, and firsthand, and very different from yours. I heard much of this music first, on AM, then, later, much of it on FM radio.

A career "slump" is a blip on the screen in a fifty year plus career.  That post of yours is a personal attack. I like to look at "all sides" of the issues rather than only one, as the BB music came at us from more than one direction.  But, over time, the foolish stereotypes of different band members have stood in the way of the actual contributions they made. 

Im not talking about this board, but the thread. Sorry if I gave off the wrong idea. It just seems odd since the whole point of the thread is his impact of their careers, to not take a stance on either side of the issue.

"A career "slump" is a blip on the screen in a fifty year plus career."

That seems awfully specific, and I fail to see what that has to do with my opinion that the BEACH BOYS career in the 80s and 90s wasnt so hot. Did you think I was referring to Stamos? I mean...yeah...Id say only really being in one big show and thats it as an actor is kind of a significant slump too. Theres multiple "slumps" besides the scenario you list here.

"That post of yours is a personal attack."

How, exactly? All I said was you didnt really have a strong argument to why Stamos earns his place among the band, and if youre NOT arguing that, then to drop in on a thread dealing with such a topic just to say "I like Stamos. He's a nice guy!" is kinda irrelevant. Thats...really not a personal attack in any way.

I was talking specifically about the glory days...63-70...before Jack Reiley.  [you know...when it mattered]  Carl was more the man through the early 70s when they re-established themselves as a great touring band.  Then things reverted and the group slowly but surely lost its foothold as one of the very top touring acts in the world.  You know when they stopped doing it Jack's way and once again did it Mike's way.

These days it doesn't matter and it works for me as Mike doesn't strut...or lisp...or 'do the jerk' and other passe dances which made him look like a balding go-go dancer on stage back when it mattered.  Back then it was like everyone else in the band was contributing to the music and Mike was just doing the watusi.  It was strange...and goofy. ::)

But surely, Lee, he must have had SOME kind of fan base?  After all, he married so frequently.  :)

I once went to his official webpage ... and was blasted out of my seat with unsolicited music at high volume before the page had even opened.  So what kind of person is a Mike Love fan?  Does he have *many*?

just to clarify, my comment about someone being female and finding Stamos attractive wasn't meant as a sexist remark. it's a simple fact that the majority of his fans are women. when he comes onstage at a Mike & Bruce show, or as a guest on The View or Ellen, it's mainly if not entirely women who are screaming and cheering for him. obviously there are also women who find him vain, smug, insincere, untalented, womanizing, etc. which could explain why he and the Lovester get along so famously.

(http://www.animateit.net/data/media/august2009/th_grave.gif)

All good with me, bossy.  I'm just sayin'.

I don't mind John Stamos. And, prior to C50, I didn't mind him joining in on the occasional Beach Boy gig. I do mind the fact that he's treated as an honored guest while Brian and Al are shut out of their own band. And, I still want to know what was behind Nelson's epic Facebook rant against him.

And now you got me wondering what Nelson's epic Facebook rant is. Screencaps anyone? Synopsis? Anything?

 :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :woot :woot :woot :woot

Hey, when I do I get my dimestore parody???? ::)

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17981.0.html

many thanks

Edit: Ah...I actually was aware of this controversy before. I think its funny, whatever the circumstances. Like you just imagine him being like "Yippee! The one time I get to actually do anything of consequence!"

Where did the idea that John Stamos is a D lister come from?  Sure, he didn't have Steve Martin's career (but Steve, to be fair is in rarefied atmosphere anyway).  But in the 20 years Full House has been off the air, he has never been without work. Broadway, TV, commercials. Some of that TV included several seasons on ER, where he shared scenes with legit greats like Forrest Whitaker. He is not having to move to Branson to do his own variety show (looking at you, Barry Williams) or celebrity reality TV shows (the ACTUAL home of the D listers).  The truth is, most successful performers only really get to do one really successful project. John Ritter is best known for Three's Company despite having career beyond that show. Why isn't he being pelted with the barbs that Stamos gets?

Basically, the BB/Stamos bromance does John as much of a disservice as it does to the BB.

If there were no Stamos, it would be necessary to invent him........to blame........

A quick scan of imdb shows that much of his work has been in tv movies and guest star appearances in lesser tv shows. He is a D lister.

Googled John Ritter lately Andy?

Ritter was never a Rolling Stone.

The same planet where mega hits such as Jake in Progress, Thieves and The New Normal are produced. Stamos may get regular work but he is a cult actor mainly remembered for a show that is nearly 30 years old.
D lister.

Gotta agree with Nixon here. Maybe if we compromised and settled on "C-lister?" Hes only known because of a very polarizing show from 30 years ago. It doesnt matter how popular friends or whatever are if he was only a cameo or bit part in them. That also is "bargain bin actor" territory.


As Emily said, he never made a point of trying to live out a youth fantasy being a rock star to the detriment of all but a select few in the audience and the band's reputation. If John Ritter or Henry Winkler or Steve Urkel were getting up on stage with the 3 remaining Beatles throughout the 90s on a regular basis theyd be getting laughed at and criticized too.

Yes, I know he died.

I hope Mr. Stamps gets help regarding his drinking

I think you have it backwards. If - if - John Stamos misses a beat on drums or plays a wrong chord on guitar or goofs up on percussion, only a select few would notice, probably less than 1% of the audience, if that. Before my point is misconstrued, I'm not claiming that Stamos is a great musician. What he does contribute musically, which is in reality minimal, is not poor. I wish Scott Totten would come on to verify this point, but we don't hear from Scott too much anymore. Gee, I wonder why?

Maybe Mr. Love can start mentioning that in every single interview, and then after Stamos gets help for the drinking and sobers up, he can continue to mention it in every single subsequent interview.  

In all seriousness, I truthfully hope Stamos gets healthy and sober too. I think that after one more DUI, that Mike might in fact say something *once* in the press, hoping his friend gets help.  

I somehow doubt Mike's gonna go overboard the way he does when talking about Brian. Unfortunately, while he'll never admit such, IMO it seems that ancient, lingering resentments against the Wilsons creep into Mike's anti-drug speak, whether in terms of frequency, or the context in which it's brought up - however inadvertently this may be. I don't think the resentments and his genuine caring (I absolutely think that he has genuine caring feelings in him) are mutually exclusive; they unfortunately overlap like a Venn diagram, and cloud his reasoning, making him oblivious to how it comes off.

While some might like to do so, it can't logically be 100% explained away simply as Mike having an obsession against substances, and thus a purely noble/insatiable urge to bring it up - especially when observing the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous video, filmed at an unarguably low point in the Wilson/Love relationship. I thus don't see any type of similar repeated, non-stop Stamos drug usage mentioning happening by Mike in future interviews to the degree that it happens with the Brian/Dennis mentioning, because there appears to be no resentment or bad history between the guys.

If one wants to say that Stamos has nowhere near the substance problems as the Wilsons did, that may be true - but if Mike really was as obsessed with people he cares about being clean and not going down the road of ruin (and if Mike's drug mentioning obsession has ZERO to do with any Wilson resentment, or Mike desiring to make himself look more noble/praiseworthy by comparison), one would be hard pressed to find a reason why Mike hasn't started mentioning Stamos having problems in the press, if indeed Mike's history of drug mentioning is in fact purely just about warm and fuzzy caring. Does anyone really think this is the case?

Turds floating in a bucket Cam.    ;)   That's what that was.  >:D

Funny though. :lol

So according to this article, Stamos had two drugs in his system. And then there was his cocaine scandal in 2010.

http://defamer.gawker.com/john-stamos-got-popped-for-driving-under-the-influence-1735406920

http://gawker.com/5585474/john-stamos-alleged-adventures-in-underage-sex-and-cocaine

Mr. Positivity/health conscious/ TM guru Mike outta walk the talk and ban appearances with Mr. Stamos.

Take comfort, you're not alone.

Ha.  Lee, the compassion around here for Mr. Stamos is quite touching ain't it.

Ok, and that right there, what Ive emphasized should be the end of the thread. Hes not a good musician...yet hes allowed to goof it up onstage because he plugged the band a few times on an old TV show. You really dont see how desperate and stupid that makes the band look? If it were a one-off show, even a one-off tour, itd be one thing. But as it is, its like a bunch of old guys parading around LAST generation's icon of cool* as a lame attempt to show the kids how hip and groovy they are. Its like grandpa trying to tag along with your friends, or Pink Floyd offering an honorary spot in the band to one of the Brady Bunch kids. Its just embarassing. If he could actually play well enough to justify BEING PART OF A PROFESSIONAL BAND itd be understandable at least. But as you admit, hes not. In fact, everyone's argument in favor of his inclusion seems to boil down to "well its a slight possibility he maybe turned a few people unto the band" to which I say lets let every celebrity who ever said they loved the Beatles to join the band. Or "aw c'mon...hes such a nice guy tho" to which I say so is my uncle...but he doesnt belong on stage either, unless they invite someone on stage to help out for a song in a one-off show. Which is all Uncle Jessie shouldve gotten in the first place. The only legitimate argument for him being there is he attracts the ladies, but even then it makes the band come off as pretty insecure that they dont trust the music to speak for itself and rely on some eye-candy to boost sales. If not cheer-leaders, its Stamos. Maybe next time they should have both. And tentacle porn. Cuz remember, Uncle Jessie had an imaginary #1 hit in Japan. On a TV show. From 30 years ago. That had two little girls upstage everyone else.

*And again, Uncle Jessie is more like a 10 year old's idea of cool

James Watt was right....... :lol

"Watt, without mentioning the Boys by name, unabashedly announced that all rock bands attracted ”the wrong element” and opted for a ”wholesome” program with Wayne Newton. ”We’re not going to encourage drug abuse and alcoholism,” Watt sniffed, ”as was done in the past.”