The Smiley Smile Message Board

Some nice comments from Mike about the "Today!"-album:

http://www.examiner.com/article/examiner-exclusive-the-beach-boys-today?CID=examiner_alerts_article



I'm afraid I misunderstand this part though:

This was the first 12-track collection to feature a “pop side” (Side 1) and a “ballad side” (Side 2)


The idea of a "pop-side" and a "ballad-side" certainly was not uncommon in the business. For example, Presley did the absolute same thing in '61 for his "Something for everybody" album:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_for_Everybody


But maybe I didn't understand what is meant with the above part. Can anyone clarify?

Sweet little interview. Includes this very nice answer:



“She Knows Me Too Well” is quite beautiful. What do you think of it, and “In The Back Of My Mind”?

Mike Love: Brian is amazing on “She Knows Me Too Well.” He has sung many phenomenal leads (in his career), and this is one of them. That’s for sure. It gives such a beautiful sound to the record. It’s almost mystical in a way…we don’t do it in concert, because… Who’s going to sing it? [Laughs] Nobody can sing like that except Brian.

Well...THERE'S one from David [and Mike] which should avoid controversy. ;)  It mentions 2 songs not discussed due to time restraints.  What about Help Me Rhonda?  A chance to mention Glen?...Brian as the new 'studio' guy?...any number of things besides The BS with the BD.  But really a decent retrospective from one of the principal people involved...on it's 50th anniversary.

I hope that the rest of the album will be covered and then added to this as an adendum David.  You only get a small window in order to celebrate a 50th anniversary.   :hat  Heh!!!  I'm one of those guys who always wants more. ;)  

"Who's going to sing it ?" I've seen Foskett sing it beautifully with Brian's band (That Lucky Old Sun tour), why not ask him to have another crack at it, Mike/Scott ?

Disparity alarm rings:



I've no objection to anyone singing whatever. Just seems a tad inconsistent…

My take...Mike Love is a good guy. And he wrote very serviceable lyrics to songs in the 1960s.
Pop song lyrics demand exaggeration and cliché.  Whether we're talking about the Little Deuce Coupe
album or the latest by Kanye Uperass.

But that writing is not the same as high art.  When ML says "almost mystical" we are treated to the fact that
he does not have the ability to comment properly on what BW did.

I like doo wop too.  So what.

Can't really identify with In the Back of My Mind because it's moody and introspective? Come on, that's just lame... Actually the song might sound pretty great if Mike would attempt to sing it in concert these days.

Very pleasant interview overall, would love to see a similar one with him about the Wild Honey album!

I tweaked it, although it was implied—because it's a Beach Boys' column—it was the first pop side/ballad side for TBB.

Oh, here we go again. Mike Love can do no good. He can't be complimentary either. It's starting to look like there IS hatred towards the man among fans, only disguised in freedom of opinion, the justice in pointing evil deeds by him or the fact that a certain group of people do not take the BBs as seriously as you do.

Yeah, here we go again. Let's nip one this in the bud before it starts a 20+ page skirmish based more on provocation than actual words posted.

There are hardly any comments so far to justify your comment, and if people react to the interview in ways you don't agree with, it's not at all justification for using terms like hatred or suggesting it's anything beyond posting reactions to the article.

Where have any of the posters above gone that far into this perceived "anti-Mike" territory enough to justify getting called out as it looks like they have been? This firing preemptive strikes against things that haven't even been said feels more like attempts to provoke an argument or shut people down rather than have a discussion, and one thing it won't do is succeed in keeping people away from posting reactions and opinions.

It's amazing that a guy who compliments Brian so much and so often should get any real criticism at all ....

Just my two cents.


Let the shelling continue  >:D

Now, here's an example of a Mike "criticism" that we need more of .....

The point is gotten across, but there are some positive and useful suggestions here. Phirnis isn't afraid to outright say "That's just lame" which is honest and respectable, in my opinion. He's not trying to armchair psychologist us into seeing Mike as the devil, nor is he just bashing away at the guy.

Bravo.

Mike should have been asked about his aborted lead vocal for "Please Let Me Wonder". Always been curious to find out more info about that… Never have I ever heard any official question or answer about it either.

+1

I dunno ..... Are things really so clear and simple on a board where folks are regularly accused of being "anti-Brian Wilson?" ........ But I guess such an accusation is perfectly acceptable and understandable because surely everyone can relate to whatever holy moly motivation might inspire such an accusation when it comes to Brian, of course.

One thing we can all agree on ...... people posting their reactions and opinions won't stop unless the brain police resort to perma-bans.

And as for provoking arguments: have we seen some of the thread titles this board has been gifted????

Pinder, what are you even talking about? This thread is hardly a bucket of bile right now. Someone just mentioned the Elvis album and DB tweaked the piece.  

Zappa is great and everything, but lay off on this brain police stuff. The mods here are just trying to keep everybody happy and referee all this feuding, it's a pain in the ass for them enough without you insulting them further. I mean, you got a temp ban for goading and pushing GF to a ridiculous degree. So you wanna start it up again and pretend they are suffocating your free speech? No need to keep digging that hole!

I think it's pretty lame too. I mean, yeah of course he is entitled to his opinion, just as though I'm entitled to state my opinion that his is is a lame opinion, lacking depth of emotion/understanding. It makes him come off as a simpleton by putting down the deeper material, or stating that it "isn't for him" in some capacity. It's the same old crapping on deeper, emotional, intensely personal songs of Brian's like Til I Die, Summer's Gone, etc. Songs that don't need changing and were/are perfect as is. How sick must Brian be of hearing that kind of thing? It's just unnecessary to state that in an interview, unless your (Mike's) own sh*t don't stink, and it most certainly does. Geez.

I wonder if Brian has ever in an interview said similar negative things about Mike's songwriting. Like, "sometimes the subjects/words Mike writes about are too cheesy/regurgitated topics/corny references, that I have to be in the mood to listen to". I mean, Brian doesn't really verbalize this stuff, or so I think, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't feel that way.

And you know, I'm totally serious when I say this... Mike Love clearly has fears, many fears (losing control of the band, taking off his hat, etc)... he's human too. I don't see how it's so hard to relate to a song about worrying about things in the back of one's mind. Unless he's just simply not in touch with those emotions.

Lyrically, Today! is Mike's pièce de résistance, especially side two.

Some incredible writing on that album.

Yeah, it's always the Mike likers who do things like "goad" and "push"

It's only us!!!!

And I think it's fairly easy to see that Challenger and myself aren't so specifically taking about this thread, but rather where such threads seem to generally go.

For the record I'm on the same page here. Mike's comment regarding In The Back Of My Mind is beyond odd. "Too introspective?" .... This from the guy who wrote some great, introspective lyrics on the very same album? .... I'd imagine there's more to the story.

Well, to me it seems like you guys are trying your best to make it go in that direction. Geez, talk about Today! or something instead.

As far as nobody being able to sing "She Knows Me Too Well"  like Brian goes, wow - that former Four Freshmen fella in BW's band fuckin' blasts it into space he's so good. A real highlight of the Venetian gig.

I feel the group's music is probably best enjoyed if you manage to appreciate the individual personalities for what they contributed to the bigger picture. I wouldn't want them to be a group of all Brians, even though he's clearly my favorite. In general, Mike's inability to fully appreciate some of the more melancholy material baffles me sometimes (Summer's Gone comes to mind as another example) but then it probably makes perfect sense from the perspective of a distinctively extrovert/outgoing person who's seen the crowds go crazy whenever he happened to sing Fun Fun Fun or Surfin' USA over the course of the past five decades. Glad he has so many great things to say about all the other songs on Today.

Oddly enough, I think these Mike--Brian discussions can be good.  With that said, I have to
apologize for what I wrote above.  I was trying to promote ML.  Writing good pop lyrics is
serious craft--and he has done it.  (Should have said it like that.)  But then I short-changed ML's
doo wop" reference--which is a good area to discuss, even if his incomplete explanation (like mine)
didn't help a whole lot.  I love all dem beach boys.  It's a tough business.

Agreed with completely.

Couldn't the interviewer just ask "how do you mean?" after Mike's answer? Was Bruce standing there ready to pistol whip?

Brian Eichenberger ain't Brian Wilson in concert circa '64.  Eichenberger's too shrill at times, but I'm sure he'll get better.

Who said he was BW circa 64? I just think he nailed it in Vegas and sounds way better than Foskett. It was a nice addition to the setlist and did justice to the song.

No wonder Mike thinks he can't do it live with Chocolate Shake Man. If you wanna talk shrill, there's a shrilly shriller that shrills.

So, are you saying The Beach Boys used to hang out at Fosket's Freeze back in Hawthorne)

OK, I'm not jumping into the Mike vs. Brian discussions.

However, I normally browse the web using Firefox with as many ad blockers as I can. This was my first visit using an iPad via Safari, and I literally could not read David's article because of all the screen-blocking junk ads on the Examiner site. I had to copy and paste the article elsewhere just to read it.

I dont't think Mike meant that no one on earth can sing SHe Knows Me So Well. He was just being complimentary. Regarding the lyrics to the songs and collaborations with Brian on that album, it's curious that Mike isn't more outspoken about them. My theory is that the bulk or the concept of the "introspective" songs is Brian's, while Mike contributes part of the lyrics, polished some of Brian's lyrical ideas, or contributed a hook-- like on Good To My Baby.

Just my two cents.

I think he just doesn't want to be know really for such things.... Not going to speculate on why, but I think he's just too happy being the "excitations" and Kokomo guy.... To each their own.

Probably. But goes on detail about Warmth of the Sun. And also at least once about Let the Wind Blow. Maybe he feels those on Today! are mainly Brian's.

These Beach Boys guys are a confounding lot!

Rereading this... It's interesting that he doesn't go into much about the lyrics on side two. Which ones were involved in that lawsuit again, fact-check fans and percentage buffs?

Such an uncharacteristic attack of modesty for Michael Edward Love after a hard-fought battle to regain his credit, hmm? I guess he's just a sentimental sap.

I don't think it's feigned modesty, but Mike (or anyone else for that matter) can't talk about everything in the world all the time ..... Maybe it just didn't occur to him in the 50 seconds or whatever it took to do the interview....

As for In The Back Of My Mind, maybe it's the song/track itself that Mike doesn't relate to so much, rather than the lyrics .... Warmth Of The Sun is pretty much a doo wop ballad given a Beach Boys treatment. Totally up Mike's alley, and with gorgeous BB's harmonies. Same with Let The Wind Blow, to a different extent .... I happen to love ITBOMM and think Dennis nailed it, but not everyone, least of all Mike Love, agrees.

Mike's writing reached it's apogee with Today! and SDSN. Pop lyrics of the pre-folk rock era played to Mike's strengths -- giving fresh and clever twists to formulaic subjects.

He never quite regained his mojo when the fashion shifted to more personal, expressive lyrics that featured such poetic devices as metaphors and symbols.

He had his creative moment, though. If I had to go to one lyricist to get a feel for what the ideal of the American teenagers lifestyle was during the period 1963-first half 1965 -- more than Lennon / McCartney,  or Gerry Goffin  -- I would go to Mike Love and Brian Wilson.

What about Good Vibrations?

Mike wrote some good lyrics post '65 -- GV for sure, the lyrics for the WH lp, his early 70's stuff, even MIU.

But during the early to mid-60's period, he was one of the top dozen or so best lyricists in pop. Afterwards, he was ok -- nothing special. But then, neither were Cynthia Weil or Jeff Barry or Gerry Goffin.

What would constitute a personal lyric from Mike? TM is great? Save the ocean? Let's have fun in the sun?

I guess the lyrics of ITBOMM are a bit too wimpy for Mike's taste, he wouldn't want to feel that way, doesn't want to feel the the feelings that are expressed in the lyric. He doesn't want downers when he's in good mood.

The only thing I don't like about ITBOMM is the double-tracking of Dennis' vocal which IMHO destroys the emotion to some extent. IIRC the recent stereo mix avoids that.

Good Vibrations and Kokomo...repeat forever...

What lyrics did Mike exactly write for Good Vibrations and for Kokomo?  Would someone please copy them into this thread.  Yes.  Mike contributed to those 2 songs.  So let's see the actual contribution and then weigh it against the credit taken.

Please...be my guest... :hat

Let's contemplate those actual Mike Love penned words.  Please do NOT include the lyrics from either of those songs written by anyone other than Mike Love...  Feel free to bonus us with the lyrics he added to Wouldn't It Be Nice as well.  Good things come in 3's. :smokin

Aside from the title words, as far as I'm aware, Mike wrote all the lyric to "GV".

Conversely, his main contribution to "Kokomo" was the "Aruba, Jamaica..." section. This here's how it originally sounded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lO08YkpH_0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lO08YkpH_0)

Asher:

She's already working on my brain
I only look in her eyes
And I pick up something I just can't explain

I'm picking up good, good, good vibrations, yeah
Good, good, good vibrations, yeah

I, I bet I know what she's like
And I can feel how right she'd be for me
It's when weird how she comes in so strong
And I wonder what she's picking up from me

I hope it's good, good, good vibrations, yeah
Good, good, good vibrations, yeah

----------

Love:

I... I love the colorful clothes she wears
And the way the sunlight plays upon her hair
I hear the sound of a gentle word
On the wind that lifts her perfume through the air

I'm pickin' up good vibrations
She's giving me excitations

Close my eyes
She's somehow closer now
Softly smile, I know she must be kind
When I look in her eyes
She goes with me to a blossom world

I'm pickin' up good vibrations
She's giving me excitations

I don't know where but she sends me there
(ah my, my what a sensation)
(ah my, my what elations)
(ah my, my what)

Gotta keep those lovin' good vibrations
A happenin' with her

Since you asked ("lawsuit" titles in bold):

Side 1:
Do You Wanna Dance
Good To My Baby
Don't Hurt My Little Sister
When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
Help Me, Ronda
Dance, Dance, Dance
 
Side 2:
Please Let Me Wonder
I'm So Young
Kiss Me Baby
She Knows Me Too Well
In The Back Of My Mind
Bull Session With 'Big Daddy'

"weird", not "when"

Too bad the Q&A is over. I'd really like to know what Mike's contribution to "In The Back Of My Mind" is, as he just said he doesn't identify with it that much.

Kudos to John Phillips for finding the time to work on that during his busy schedule of raping his daughter.

(Sorry, just want the guy to be remembered for what he should be remembered for. Child abuse survivor.)

Call me cynical, but wasn't it oddly convenient that Mackenzie went public with that claim...

1 - eight years after he died and...

2 - when she had an autobiography to promote.

I'm not disagreeing, I just thought Mike's apogee ought to be moved over to GV in 1966. That would be Brian's apogee too imo. The rest of the band's apogees came at various other points imo.

So...I guess the point... [beyond the one mentioned directly above by elombre which is an issue that needs its own spotlight and amount of attention paid to it ... and I do not want to appear to be ignoring it as the sexual abuse of children is a widespread spark of life killing evil...] ...is that Mike Love wrote all of the KEY words to Good Vibrations and, especially by comparison, just a few extra words to Kokomo yet gets branded as the "Club Kokomo" guy.

[It should be pointed out that when Mike, Carl and the Boys recorded Kokomo that THAT information regarding the late John Phillips had not been made public and that NO ONE knew of the years of abuse MacKenzie Phillips would later say she'd suffered at the hands of her father.]

So while Mike may not have had much to do with Wouldn't It Be Nice...and really not a GREAT deal to do with the lyrics of Kokomo rather than sharing the lead with Carl and writing the 'travelogue'...there are two points.  Both Good Vibrations and Kokomo were number 1 songs.  The time-frame between them scaling the charts was the largest gap between #1 songs by any specific group or artist ever [at least with Billboard] and the 2 songs had a large influence on 2 distinctly separate generations of fans.   Everybody won...including us. :3d  BRI, The Beach Boys, The fans by virtue of the extra time potentially bought through the obvious success of the bonus #1 song and the subsequent demand for more tours and concerts...thus some of the added income and time for Brian to reach the point where he's at today assisted by some positive bonus revenues generated through BRI...some of which can be attributed to hitting number 1 again in 1988...22 years after Good Vibrations.  All in all it seems like a positive to me.  

[ps...I do have that John Phillips cd with Kokomo on it but for those who aren't really aware of the 'original'...it was good of Andrew to post the link]

So then...The Club Kokomo thing is what?  A dig at Mike because he managed to pull something off without Brian?  He still needed Carl...and Terry Melcher, and The Boys...and yes even John Phillips MAJORLY to make it happen.  So then is it really a dig at Mike?  Or is it more of a dig at the folks who like and appreciate Mike and his contribution to the group's success?  Or is it just a dig at those dinks who refer to those of us with an appreciation of the talents and abilities of Brian Wilson as 'Brianistas'?  Sometimes it seems like the problem is at least as much some of the actions by fans as it is anything done by Mike or Brian who have both contributed their highs and their lows along the way.  That's life.

Together?  They gave us Good Vibrations.  Somehow those vibes got spilt and we've spent an awfully long time trying to pick them all up again.   That's my look at it based on what I know 'Today'.  There sure has been a LOT of water under the bridge and over the dam since THAT album dropped.

Yet here we are.   There must have been more good than bad.  :hat

Ah ok, thanks. That makes more sense. I thought you meant it was generally the first album. But it was the first for the Beach Boys for sure.

To your point, how about "Good Vibrationists" instead of "Kokomoist" then?

Well Cam...I think the point is we're Beach Boys fans rather than either of the considerations you mentioned as possibilities.  We are sadly weakend when divided...and it's almost incessant...not to mention so well PAST old that it's now just BAD blue cheese. :lol

Point taken.

I was able to read it just fine on my iPad with only pop-up at the bottom - and it wasn't blocking the article.

Mine had 2 pop-ups, one on top of the other. Anyone know of an ad blocker for IOS Safari? The block popups setting is already on in preferences.

John Phillips was one of the best songwriters of the '60s.

Mike's GV lyrics just destroy Asher's. They're just prettier words.

Asher's lyrics are too literal and abstract. Mike is specific and uses images to evoke an impression of vibrations ("sunlight plays" , "wind...lifts ", "sound of a gentle word") without being on-the-nose.

Whatever happened to that Mike, who could arrive at meaning through expressive images rather than bald statements?

I think Mike's still capable of writing picturesque lyrics.

Sorry to hear that elnombre.  I believe the daughter too. 

No they don't.

Well, you're in luck!

There's a version on BWPS with Asher's lyrics!

The rest of us will keep the smash #1 hit 1967 version and everyone wins  ;D

In the sense that Mike's are complete, finished lyrics (not placeholders) that scan properly and sit well on the instrumental track, I think they do. Of course, it's a totally unfair comparison: can't help but wonder what Tony may have come up with for a final draft...

Thanks for writing that - I just realised that this is the reason VDP's lyrics don't do as much for me as Mike's or Asher's finished Pet Sounds lyrics. VDP uses words that don't sound as pretty to me, excepting the verses of Cabin Essence which I do find pretty. Well, that's only me, feel free to ignore this opinion.

I think the lyrics sit fine on the instrumental track!  I've always liked Tony's lyrics.  Obviously Brian gave them credibility too - he OK'd them for BWPS and took a few of 'em on the road with him!

You might keep the "1967 version" but the rest of us will keep the 1966 number one hit version.