Lifetime ban on AGD

[The Cincinnati Kid]

It's like the movie sparticus!

Yes! One of the best scenes!

When is this going to stop? Seriously...when? Ever? AGD could be a pain and if he crossed the line so be it but seriously....years and years of this from the usual suspects. Explain to me what the difference is between this stuff and listening to two 9 year olds laughing at each others fart noises. Several people have already tried to politely point this out in this very thread and on it will go. For better or for worse at least Andrew was a walking encyclopedia of Beach Boys history and had a reason for being here.

Because you expect 9 years to laugh at fart noises. I don't expect a supposedly well-respected historian and "fact-checker" to spread infantile gossip behind the scenes (which then traveled to other posters). Mike's Beard, I read your little whine on the Hoffman board, to make things perfectly clear (short of drawing this out in crayon): We've all had to read for the last year or two the Cincinnati Kid's opinions on certain subjects (opinions that really seemed to be based on bad information). He bragged about his source, that we would all be surprised if we knew who it was. Turns out his "source" was getting his info from Andrew G Doe. Turns out that information was wrong. If you can't easily see the danger in young posters being spread bad information based on that incident, then trying to explain this is an exercise in futility.

If a poster is using the board's PM function to spread malicious and potentially libelous gossip behind the scenes that involves Brian's CHILDREN/adoption for god's sake I would hope the mods would ban that person no matter WHO it was. That it was being spread by someone who we're all supposed to trust to have the right information is honestly even worse.

Perhaps it all was second hand information - but let's then ask who that information came from, and why on earth it seems like Andrew didn't fact-check this information before spreading it to those who didn't know any better. And also, why was all of this negativity aimed at one person? Honestly, the sum total of what I've found out the last couple weeks makes me realize just how hated of a person Melinda Wilson is in certain circles. All of that speculation, gossip, and flat out wrong allegations were spread to this very board. And then subsequently spread to other posters.

And now this is getting to the point where you guys are trying to vilify Charles LePage (who is gracious enough to run this flippin board) for trying to do the right thing. Seriously, I hope the mods release this information in some fashion, because I think it would shut a lot of people up here.

Of course, some exodus of Doe followers will happen when Lee Dempsey finds or makes the promised land of boards. However, Charles is exactly right - these problems will show up on any board where these people are allowed on...and best of luck to that, because we see how it has played out time and time again.

This bs you and Empire of Love keep saying about my "opinions over the past couple years" really needs to stop.  You don't even know that what I was told was in anyway malicious towards Melinda or the family (guess what, it wasn't).  Turns out it wasn't 100% false anyway.  So I'd appreciate it if you would stop throwing my named through the mud for some supposed opinions that aren't actually mine.  

The second to last sentence above is bordering on... well it's getting close to what started all this nonsense.

Actually none of this nonsense would have started if Empire of Love didn't twist my post into something else entirely just to start some drama.  Guess he got his wish.

No YOU are implying that false information you got is not 100 100% false. How would you actually know that to be the case. How can you make that assertion?

The same way I know that it's mostly false.  Billy asked to keep this stuff private, so I'm not going to share any details.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

It's like the movie sparticus!

Yes! One of the best scenes!

When is this going to stop? Seriously...when? Ever? AGD could be a pain and if he crossed the line so be it but seriously....years and years of this from the usual suspects. Explain to me what the difference is between this stuff and listening to two 9 year olds laughing at each others fart noises. Several people have already tried to politely point this out in this very thread and on it will go. For better or for worse at least Andrew was a walking encyclopedia of Beach Boys history and had a reason for being here.

Because you expect 9 years to laugh at fart noises. I don't expect a supposedly well-respected historian and "fact-checker" to spread infantile gossip behind the scenes (which then traveled to other posters). Mike's Beard, I read your little whine on the Hoffman board, to make things perfectly clear (short of drawing this out in crayon): We've all had to read for the last year or two the Cincinnati Kid's opinions on certain subjects (opinions that really seemed to be based on bad information). He bragged about his source, that we would all be surprised if we knew who it was. Turns out his "source" was getting his info from Andrew G Doe. Turns out that information was wrong. If you can't easily see the danger in young posters being spread bad information based on that incident, then trying to explain this is an exercise in futility.

If a poster is using the board's PM function to spread malicious and potentially libelous gossip behind the scenes that involves Brian's CHILDREN/adoption for god's sake I would hope the mods would ban that person no matter WHO it was. That it was being spread by someone who we're all supposed to trust to have the right information is honestly even worse.

Perhaps it all was second hand information - but let's then ask who that information came from, and why on earth it seems like Andrew didn't fact-check this information before spreading it to those who didn't know any better. And also, why was all of this negativity aimed at one person? Honestly, the sum total of what I've found out the last couple weeks makes me realize just how hated of a person Melinda Wilson is in certain circles. All of that speculation, gossip, and flat out wrong allegations were spread to this very board. And then subsequently spread to other posters.

And now this is getting to the point where you guys are trying to vilify Charles LePage (who is gracious enough to run this flippin board) for trying to do the right thing. Seriously, I hope the mods release this information in some fashion, because I think it would shut a lot of people up here.

Of course, some exodus of Doe followers will happen when Lee Dempsey finds or makes the promised land of boards. However, Charles is exactly right - these problems will show up on any board where these people are allowed on...and best of luck to that, because we see how it has played out time and time again.

This bs you and Empire of Love keep saying about my "opinions over the past couple years" really needs to stop.  You don't even know that what I was told was in anyway malicious towards Melinda or the family (guess what, it wasn't).  Turns out it wasn't 100% false anyway.  So I'd appreciate it if you would stop throwing my named through the mud for some supposed opinions that aren't actually mine.  

The second to last sentence above is bordering on... well it's getting close to what started all this nonsense.

Actually none of this nonsense would have started if Empire of Love didn't twist my post into something else entirely just to start some drama.  Guess he got his wish.

Yes, your post was twisted around. It doesn't dispute the fact that you received false information and used it to base your opinions on certain topics publicly (and you continually bragged about "source" throughout the last couple). That this information wasn't 100% false still leaves a good percentage that was false. And no one was granted a wish here. Had potentially libelous comments not been made in the first place (and apparent bullying) I wouldn't be wasting my time writing this post, and AGD would probably still be a prominent part of this board. You know what I do wish? I wish that Melinda wasn't the target of some fairly disgusting gossip...that way now I wouldn't be privy to the behind-the-scenes plumbing of this fandom, and I'd actually still have passion for the history of this band.

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying.  I'm sorry that I'm probably sounding harsh, but it's just that my " info" had nothing to do with these libelous/bullying PMs that AGD was sending out.  I don't want people to get the idea that I was spreading that type of info around.   

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Ok..rather than worry about who started what, let's worry about who is going to finish it. My vote is on me.

 All kidding aside, let's move on, put Friends on the cd player/iPod/turntable , and then we'll have world peace

Agreed, I finally got around to ordering Sunflower and have really enjoyed listening to the full album almost non-stop. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Was it your first time hearing it? It's in my top 5...love, love, LOVE it.

For me (and this changes every few months it seems), it's

1) Friends
2) 20/20
3)Wild Honey
4) Sunflower
5) Pet Sounds

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Was it your first time hearing it? It's in my top 5...love, love, LOVE it.

For me (and this changes every few months it seems), it's

1) Friends
2) 20/20
3)Wild Honey
4) Sunflower
5) Pet Sounds

I had listened to it on Spotify a few times, but I don't have premium, so I couldn't listen to it whenever I wanted. 

Here's my top five (and it changes a lot as well)

1) SD/SN
2) Sunflower
3) Pet Sounds
4) MIU (like I said it changes lol)
5) TWGMTR (probably more sentimental since it's the only album released in my lifetime and all of the excitement around C50)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Good list CK...I got news for you...MIU is 6th, Holland is 7th, and TWGMTR is 8th for me, rounded off by Smiley Smile and So Tough to round out my top 10.  I actually enjoy MIU quite a bit, save the first and last cuts.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Good list CK...I got news for you...MIU is 6th, Holland is 7th, and TWGMTR is 8th for me, rounded off by Smiley Smile and So Tough to round out my top 10.  I actually enjoy MIU quite a bit, save the first and last cuts.

Good to know I'm not the only one!  Seems like nobody else likes it.    Winds of Change is probably in my top three songs from the album.  MIU is one of the few albums that'll I'll play all the way through without skipping tracks.     

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I don't care what anybody says...I LOVE Matchpoint of our Love, and Pitter Patter is one of my favorite post-1972 songs.

Can't cut for Winds of Change, though...Al sounds like Kermit the Frog getting a colonoscopy.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I don't care what anybody says...I LOVE Matchpoint of our Love, and Pitter Patter is one of my favorite post-1972 songs.

Can't cut for Winds of Change, though...Al sounds like Kermit the Frog getting a colonoscopy.

Yes!  Those two are what I listen to most along with My Diane.  Amazing vocal from Brian on Matchpoint.   

Thanks for putting that image in my head, now that's all I think about when I listen to it lol. 

[Jay]

I don't care what anybody says, MIU is one of the beach boys's best albums. 

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

You people are crazy!
Actually, I'll admit MIU has begun to grow on me....

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I don't care what anybody says...I LOVE Matchpoint of our Love, and Pitter Patter is one of my favorite post-1972 songs.

Can't cut for Winds of Change, though...Al sounds like Kermit the Frog getting a colonoscopy.

Yes!  Those two are what I listen to most along with My Diane.  Amazing vocal from Brian on Matchpoint.   

Thanks for putting that image in my head, now that's all I think about when I listen to it lol. 

    For reals, the song makes me thing of the Muppet movie where Kermit is singing, right before he gets hit by that car.

I love My Diane, but I'm partial to the unsweetened version.

[rab2591]

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying.  I'm sorry that I'm probably sounding harsh, but it's just that my " info" had nothing to do with these libelous/bullying PMs that AGD was sending out.  I don't want people to get the idea that I was spreading that type of info around.   

I understand, and I don't hold any negative feelings towards you. I was sent bad info myself directly from AGD, and though it wasn't libelous, it was yet another drop in the bucket of what seems to be a rather negative outlook about Melinda and her story. So I hope you can understand my frustration about all of this. Again, no hard feelings.

Paul J B, I did indeed misread your post, and furthermore I should've clarified that most of that post wasn't directed at you, but at those who seems hellbent on blaming anyone who isn't Andrew regarding this situation.

John Manning, honestly I hope one of the mods will further explain what exactly happened. Though Chuck and Billy did their best to make it clear in this thread, there is still room for speculation. Hopefully the facts will come out in some way or form so this topic can finally be put to rest.

[guitarfool2002]

Charles, Billy, and I explained what happened in the course of this thread as related to the mods and the decision.

[rab2591]

Charles, Billy, and I explained what happened in the course of this thread as related to the mods and the decision.

I think the explanations you guys gave made things very clear. But without the evidence put forth I can see why confusion would still exist to some people. Like DrBeachBoy explained, they had nothing but cordial discourse (publicly and privately) with AGD...so many find these accusations hard to believe. In fact, besides a few minor incidents when I inadvertently screwed up a fact, I had no issues with Andrew...had I not seen some evidence for myself I'd be fairly confused as well.

[drbeachboy]

Charles, Billy, and I explained what happened in the course of this thread as related to the mods and the decision.

Ok, then why reopen this friggin' thread again if you were so thorough in your explanation? You can't have it both ways. You invited this all on yourself. Plus, the people being talked about cannot even defend themselves. At this point you are just doing more dumping on.

[guitarfool2002]

There has been too much lying and distorting about not only this decision but decisions made by moderators in general. I do not post on the Hoffman forum, I am not a member of the Hoffman forum, but I saw some of the quotes before they got pulled, and I saw who was posting them. I have been the scapegoat for any number of people to blame and be slammed for certain things that were done, if not everything certain people do not agree with, and I at least deserve a chance to reply. Especially after seeing silly, mind-numbingly simple issues like the time of day when this thread was reopened to a timeline in years of when Charles made certain statements about Mikie get dredged up and become even more dirt to be thrown where there is absolutely no basis in the truth and no grounds to throw any dirt.

There have already been statements by Billy, Klaas when he was a moderator, and myself that have said clearly and absolutely airtight factually how the moderator decisions work. They are discussed and decided as a group. There are no individuals going around banning people out of spite or based on personal grudges. That has NEVER happened since I have been a moderator, and Billy can back that up. If anyone still believes that is not the case, every word of every mod discussion is archived and available. It should not need to reach that point.

To see those members who are still active here among those who have been banned from this forum posting comments on that Hoffman board was disgusting. If you don't want to believe what three moderators and the board admin have already put on the record as the truth, you are liars for still suggesting otherwise.

The Mikie situation. Enough is enough. I've had it being the patsy or the one blamed exclusively for this. Everything that happened is archived. Everything discussed is archived. To see Lee Dempsey, Alan Smith, and any number of other posters still insisting on making this an issue to keep beating the drum, either you have been told the wrong information, you have been lied to, or you're choosing to post lies on the board. Whatever the case, Mikie was given multiple chances - off the board through PM - to respond publicly and correct the false information he was posting on top of the multiple infractions of the board rules that had led up to warnings and bans. He did not do that.

To Lee Dempsey, Bgas, and the others: Whatever you were told and whatever you may believe enough to continue posting, Mikie was not banned permanently for posting a cartoon on this board. Mike's Beard posted the cartoon, and got a 7-day timeout after multiple complaints were lodged. The reasons why Mikie was banned were handled confidentially and will remain so. But whatever you may have been told, I was not the sole moderator who banned him out of spite, he was not banned permanently for posting a cartoon, he was not banned permanently for what he thought was my grudge against him for losing an argument or some nonsense, and he was not banned without agreement from the mods who were on the case. Full agreement, and multiple chances given to right the wrongs.

So yes, Bgas, I get the last word on that one.

To Alan Smith, et al...That's the truth. The actual words are archived and will back up everything. I noticed an attempt to dig up a 2005 message from Charles was made, however as Charles himself already made clear, his situations with Mikie happened several years AFTER 2005, and if Charles' word isn't enough to end this nonsense, there are archives of that too. Charles is right. No need to dredge up 11 year old posts to try to insinuate otherwise to the board membership. I'd say an apology might be in order, but that's your call. Charles didn't deserve that, and yes I'm both calling out the action and defending him.

To Dr. Beach Boy - again, here was a case with the timing of the threads being closed where the truth is the truth and I guess it was up to HeyJude to come on and set the record straight after the words of mods and board admins wasn't enough. I'd also say an apology may be in order.

And I'd also suggest further you check your facts before making accusatory posts or challenging people and their word publicly. I'm leaving out whatever issues you continue to shove in my face, whether here or behind my back on that Hoffman thread, because it's obvious you have issues that you want to hold on to despite hearing the actual truth. But I'd say it is a damn shame and also beyond frustrating to see someone continue to hammer away at things that were already explained and clarified. At some point perhaps you should consider stepping up and saying "I'm sorry, I got it wrong" instead of beating the same drum endlessly and claiming a right to post opinions.

As far as issues with Andrew Doe, once again every mod and admin involved has described and explained the process. It should be case closed, but it is not. If there are still people trying to claim that I was the instigator of this out of a grudge or based on malice from personal issues, that is a lie. And it is offensive to continue reading this and other lies over and over again. But - in the case of the Hoffman board posts, consider those sources and what kinds of axes they have to grind.

If it comes down to it, it will not be flattering to those involved to see descriptions posted of why they were banned, with all the things that went into it. So...it should end.

And in terms of my own "issues" with Andrew Doe that someone alluded to, I kept that out of the process of discussing and weighing the options that led to the ban. If I could use a megaphone to shout that even louder, I kept whatever some people seem to think led to me pushing for a ban out of the process.

I could have made a big case when certain things did go down. Like finding out Andrew was contacting members privately in an effort to have me discredited and force my removal from the forum.

Will any of the Hoffman posters or those hammering this issue into the ground here step up and admit they got messages about that, about trying to sh*t-can me and call for new mods to be elected?

No one had to. Because it turned out the same kind of thing was done to another board member, and people actually came forward in this very thread to admit they received those kinds of messages.

And I myself had in the past - prior to any of that garbage - received a message about another well-known board member that not only insulted him, but also found out others received even worse where the family members were included.

Nice stuff, right? Let's defend insults and innuendo leveled at other board members and their families. Not just band members and their families, mind you, but fellow board members who have no skin in whatever sick game all of this is a part of. Done in private, of course, never to be challenged and never to be put on a board. Yet, it was sent to multiple recipients who reported similar messages about this and other members. Sad, sad stuff.

I've just about had it watching as all of this goes down. Seeing Charles challenged on the basis of searching for and digging up an 11 year old message to try to discredit him without knowing a damn thing about the actual situation was a tipping point.

It's either "all about the music" as a reason for coming here, or it's all about digging up dirt, trying to ruin and discredit people, and above that using lies and innuendo when the truth has been put on the public record for all to read more than enough times.

It could be all about the music. Unfortunately it seems to be, with some, not quite the reason for coming here. That's it. I'm tired of seeing good people get smeared, have their reputations wrecked, and their word called into question by lies and liars. If someone isn't sure of the truth, consider asking what the truth is before using a lie or distortion to ruin people.

There is a difference between arguing about concert dates and what albums are good or bad, and lying or spreading rumors about people and their personal lives across this community. At least most people would agree with that, unfortunately some prefer to deal in lies and destruction. The latter should not be welcome here or on any board.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

There are no individuals going around banning people out of spite or based on personal grudges. That has NEVER happened since I have been a moderator, and Billy can back that up. If anyone still believes that is not the case, every word of every mod discussion is archived and available. It should not need to reach that point.

I can and will definitely back that up. Look, let's be real...not everybody is going to like everybody here. That's normal, that's human nature. Hell, there's a member or two (four, actually)  on this board that I absolutely despise , and i wish they could get off this board, and never come back, but they're still here. Why? Because they haven't done anything ban-worthy. Yet I banned a close friend. Why? Because it was the right thing to do. If we mods were as bad as claimed, don't you think we'd go around banning people for disagreeing with us? GF is 100% right, and that is not us.

You know why this thread was reopened? Because people were still discussing it, on other boards and occasionally on other threads. We reopened this thread not for people to pile on Andrew (which makes me extremely conflicted and uncomfortable), but for us all to clear the air, BOTH SIDES, once and for all. I admit, I'm ready for this to end, and even though I was reluctant to reopen the thread, I admit that, once again, it is the right thing to do. Why? Because it my honest to God hope that we can move past this, and go back to the music. I don't care if your favorite member is Brian, Mike, Dennis, Carl, Al, Ricky, Blondie, Bruce (do they even exist?)...we're here. That means we are fans, right? That means we all have something in common. Let's concentrate on that.

I hope my words and thoughts were conveyed to everyone's understanding. This is not a 'beatings will continue until morale improves' type board. Man, I've been on boards that were, where if you so much as said one word to a mod in disagreement, your post would be deleted and there would be severe consequences. This isn't that place.

Now, I hope these can be my final thoughts on the matter.

Listening to Wild Honey right now. There are days when it is my favorite Beach Boys album. One of the highlights of my life came a few years ago, when I went through a phase where I only listened to this local college radio station that played mainly indie music (of all genres) or more obscure music. If a Beach Boys song was played, it was always one of the 'deep cuts'. So, you have no idea where the ONE AND ONLY time my band got played on the radio happened to be on KTRU, between 'Aren't You Glad' and Tom Waits's 'Howling at the Moon'.

[drbeachboy]

Now look who is doing the calling out here. First off, I never mentioned you publicly on the Hoffman board. I was the one who asked people there not to discuss the AGD stuff over there. I knew that the thread would be closed straight away. Not fair to to the OP who's thread had nothing to do with the AGD situation here.

Second, I will not apologize for what I see as a lousy job as a mod. You cop an attitude with anyone who does not agree with you. You come off as moderating your own arguments. It puts anyone who questions what you write, in jeopardy. Some people feel as though they have to tread lightly with you on everything. I tried letting you know about this privately, but nothing changed after that exchange.

Lastly, if you cannot see what a bad idea it was to reopen this thread, then I honestly have to question the decision making here. I am sorry that I have to say these things, somebody had to.

[18thofMay]

Now look who is doing the calling out here. First off, I never mentioned you publicly on the Hoffman board. I was the one who asked people there not to discuss the AGD stuff over there. I knew that the thread would be closed straight away. Not fair to to the OP who's thread had nothing to do with the AGD situation here.

Second, I will not apologize for what I see as a lousy job as a mod. You cop an attitude with anyone who does not agree with you. You come off as moderating your own arguments. It puts anyone who questions what you write, in jeopardy. Some people feel as though they have to tread lightly with you on everything. I tried letting you know about this privately, but nothing changed after that exchange.

Lastly, if you cannot see what a bad idea it was to reopen this thread, then I honestly have to question the decision making here. I am sorry that I have to say these things, somebody had to.

Every other thread was turning into, "where is AGD"thread or "just give him a probation" thread. People wanted to have their final say or spray and some gave their support. I get that we live in a generation of "why" and we like to know everything their is to know about what, who and ultimately why. But the decision was made, if you don't like it email him or send him a message on Facebook.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Now look who is doing the calling out here. First off, I never mentioned you publicly on the Hoffman board. I was the one who asked people there not to discuss the AGD stuff over there. I knew that the thread would be closed straight away. Not fair to to the OP who's thread had nothing to do with the AGD situation here

That is indeed true. Although I could not post there, I did lurk and read the thread, and you did indeed say it was a bad idea to discuss it.

It puts anyone who questions what you write, in jeopardy. Some people feel as though they have to tread lightly with you on everything

 

That, however, should not be the case. As I said in my own post above, if that were true, wouldn't GF ban anyone who disagrees with him? Wouldn't you have gotten banned for your responses to him? That has not happened, because that is not how he or any of us operate.


And again, the reason why this thread was reopened was summed up by what I said, and what 18th just posted too. The discussion is going to happen whether we want it to or not (and I quite frankly am sick to death of it). Better here than in other threads, or indeed elsewhere online if possible. I mean, what if someone vents on another board because they feel they can't do it here, and in the process gets his or herself banned there on account of it? That'd be jacked up, but it's possible.

[alf wiedersehen]

If lots of users (even on different music forums) repeatedly express having issues with a certain mod, is that not a red flag? Is there no appropriate course of action? Here's an idea: try using someone else. See if the complaints continue. Maybe ask the people of the board who they would like to lead them. Yeah, it's a long shot: I doubt Guitarfool will give up his position of power in a gesture of humility, but the fact that nothing comes of all of the vocal complaining is confusing to say the least.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

If lots of users (even on different music forums) repeatedly express having issues with a certain mod, is that not a red flag? Is there no appropriate course of action? Here's an idea: try using someone else. See if the complaints continue. Maybe ask the people of the board who they would like to lead them. Yeah, it's a long shot: I doubt Guitarfool will give up his position of power in a gesture of humility, but the fact that nothing comes of all of the vocal complaining is confusing to say the least.

Guitarfool is a superb Moderator. The Board is lucky to have him!

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

If lots of users (even on different music forums) repeatedly express having issues with a certain mod, is that not a red flag?

Define "lots." 

And to answer your question, not necessarily.  If you could give me an example of someone who was banned temporarily or permanently that didn't deserve it, that would be worth looking into.   Mikie and AGD?  I'm surprised Billy and everyone displayed the patience with them that they did.

[RangeRoverA1]

Guitarfool is a superb Moderator. The Board is lucky to have him!

Affirmative. Those people at the Hoffman had no right discussing anything related to other (read: this) board, in public. It's really bizarre that they would question the moderation of Smiley Smile forum - what do they care? They're happy posting there then deal with it. It's even worse to single out guitarfool when he repeatedly explained that every decision is made by 3 mods. I'd assume the posters over there imagine things where they aren't. It's understandable that GF would like to stand for and defend himself. Who would like to find out people actually had been saying sth. unflattering and untrue about them at different place(s)? It's not cool.