OK! No more song snippets please! When people hear such things it can sometimes lead to an opinion, and we can't have those around here...

Sometimes it's better to just say "yeah, man! I hope not" or something when someone expresses a bit of opinionated concern. But this war on opinions here will only end in a quagmire....

There is no war on opinions. It's all in your mind, dude.

You fundamentally misunderstand how free speech and open discourse works. You share this misunderstanding with a lot of people. You (and they) believe that they should be able to say whatever insane thing they want and have others accept it automatically as valid.

But it doesn't work that way. No one is censoring you. But if you say something that a lot of people disagree with -- or even some people disagree with -- you do not get a pass. You do not get patted on the head. You don't get a gold star. You get pushback. And you don't have to engage with that pushback if you don't want, but it's entirely legitimate.

It's just bizarre. You claim that you want people to express themselves, but you just don't want them to express disagreements with you.

I made a valid point even if you disagree. I don't pretend to be an expert on discourse or ..... on anything. And I've been very very clear as to what disturbes me about these conversations. It's not being disagreed with that does it, but it's the flaming and aghast indignation that seems to happen when certain posters are disagreed with. We've seen all manner of put down and insult when daring to disagree. I've posted many positive comments about this album and have let many an insult roll off with a joke or two because, no, I do not get a free pass. That is correct. Why don't you guys take a look at your own behavior for a moment. Just because the majority agrees with your views on this subject it does not mean only those who don't completely agree need to practice common decency.

OK! Then no more song snippets please! When people hear such things it can sometimes lead to an opinion, and we can't have those around here... Knowing all the details behind the scenes is one thing but people's ears can still tell them something else.

Sometimes it's better to just say "yeah, man! I hope not" or something when someone expresses a bit of opinionated concern. But this war on opinions here will only end in a quagmire....

And once it's released let's all brace ourselves, because even then people will still be free to express their opinions.

Yes, that would be an appropriate time to do so.

Can't argue with that.

Who gives a f*** about Frank Ocean, Lana Del Ray etc...? This album has Al, Blondie and Dave on it, that's what I'm looking forward to.

We give a f*ck about Frank Ocean, Lana Del Rey, etc BECAUSE this is an album with Al, Blondie, and Dave on it!!!!

But the chips will fall as they may once it's released. And once it's released let's all brace ourselves, because even then people will still be free to express their opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZaxE2GeH8

"We had Kokomo, which was a big hit down here". Course, he says this on tv, drunk as a skunk.

Nobody is perfect. It's all about the legacy. Stamos might be a great guy but you don't see the Stones letting some 80's TV star joining them on stage regularly.

On the M&B oldies tour, Stamos is a great draw. I'm sure the casino crowd are thrilled to see him. And the babes love him so he is nice to have around    .

I dunno ... The Stones did cart John Mayer around on their most recent tour!

In fact, they played The Echoplex in Echo Park, which is like THE hippest place in Los Angeles. This is a place where the cream of the crop of local bands play regularly. You could throw the smallest stone (no pun) in any direction and it would hit someone in a very cool band on the up and up, most all of whom clamored to  get into the Stones gig! So, they play the Echoplex, and who do they wheel out as their big guest? Keith Urban!!!!!  ...... That's a much bigger clueless f*ck you to their fans than anything Mike could ever dream of doing!

C'mon Pinder. You are equating Mayer and Urban with Stamos. Those guys are real, professional musicians, not TV stars.

God, gonna dress you up in a cheerleader uniform and have you prance around at the next M&B show. 

Does a VIP "Club Kokomo" package come with that deal?

To be honest, yeah: Mayer and Urban are professional musicians ..... and THAT is the problem! 

Does BWPS count as recycled?

J/K 

When there are people who haven't heard the album who are already saying it may be a great album, how is that different than people saying they think it might not be? They're both uninformed opinions. It's the battle of guessing games.

I'm not basing opinions on total nonsense like the quality or lack thereof of song titles, or trying to make comments about things that happened or didn't happen in someone's life or in the creative process in general based on things I know absolutely nothing about.

I'm excited simply because it's a new Brian Wilson album with new Brian Wilson vocals, new Brian Wilson songs, and new Brian Wilson arrangements. And I'm a fan of Brian Wilson's vocals, songs, and arrangements.

If I were not a fan of Brian Wilson and didn't care about this new album, I might say I'm not excited about this new album and simply *not buy it* when it comes out. But I wouldn't go pissing on other people's enthusiasm especially by using points like bland song titles to say the songs won't be good before hearing them. Or trying to suggest a lack of inspiration or focus will be a factor when I don't know jack squat about either subject enough to even qualify the statement.

I've said all along, about this and the movie and everything else: Save your money, don't buy the album, don't buy a ticket. Simple as that. Just don't try to sell others here on how bad it will be by using faulty logic or information as a basis.

Guitarfool, I honestly don't think anyone, but I can only speak for myself, is intentionally trying to squash anyone's excitement or enthusiasm about this album. And if they were/are: that sucks and should be called out .... I think it's more a case of people airing their opinions and then feeling like they have to defend them ....... This never appeals to people's better natures :/ ......

I am young, listen to modern music, and think this album is not going to be very good. Some of the tracks we know are recycled. Others don't sound very promising based on their bland song titles. Brian may have been working on his Capitol release for a long time but we also know it has been reworked several times, his collaboration with Jeff Beck having been completely aborted. To me the lack of focus of these sessions as well as the nature of material indicates we are looking at a very forced album. He might be working harder than on GIOM but the inspiration still isn't there.

Since you know so much about the details, which tracks were recycled and what were they recycled from? Since when does a song title's blandness or excitement mean anything until you actually hear it? How many tracks were recorded with Jeff Beck and his jazz-fusion band, and how many were originally planned going into the proposed collaboration? Did you witness this "lack of focus" having been in the studio, or did you hear or read something none of us has seen? On what do you base your claim of the inspiration not being there, again were you involved in the project to know how "inspired" it was or was not at any given time in the process? Does reworking an album before it's given a final sequence and mastering exist as a music business rarity exclusive only to Brian Wilson, and only to music he's creating?

If you do know some of these details which no one else has heard, please fill us in, you'll help us fans sort things out properly and start assuming the negatives as you're able to do based on firsthand information so we don't come off looking like rose-colored-glasses-wearing naive fans.

What's the big deal that this kid has a feeling/opinion/hunch that the album will be this or that? Without perhaps knowing all the details you specify, there are enough pieces of the puzzle available to form a sort of preemptive opinion ..... I haven't heard anyone at all saying they'll never in a million years buy the album! No one's talking about organizing a boycott or anything. When tidbits of info and 10 second song snippets get released, people will talk and their imaginations will run wild.... Some will take Insider reports to heart and others will be a tad suspicious... It's just life and human nature ..... Why the irradiant indignation at some kid's musings?

Why? Because it's sad to see someone convincing himself how bad it will be based on complete and utter nonsense like the lack of "exciting" song titles, or even worse a report of a lack of inspiration and a lack of focus...two things he knows absolutely nothing about and is unqualified to even make such a statement anyway, and I'm pretty sure that fact wouldn't be hard to prove unless he lives in the Wilson household or was in the studio as the album was being recorded.

Well, let's ask him directly: How and where did you see this "lack of focus" or lack of inspiration enough to make such a statement?

Understood! But I'm sure when it comes out and if he likes it, he'll speak up! He's not saying he's not going to give it a listen! .... If anyone was doing that, even I would take them to task! .... I'm gonna snatch the thing up the split second I can, and on the most expensive vinyl edition possible, just like I've done with everything Brian's put out since Imagination! .... (I did sell GIOMH back at Amoeba though ;P)

BTW, the first album I ever heard on CD was Brian's first solo album! My uncle put it on during Xmas eve dinner, followed by Sgt. Pepper! I was too young to know what was up, but I was fascinated.

.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZaxE2GeH8

"We had Kokomo, which was a big hit down here". Course, he says this on tv, drunk as a skunk.

Nobody is perfect. It's all about the legacy. Stamos might be a great guy but you don't see the Stones letting some 80's TV star joining them on stage regularly.

On the M&B oldies tour, Stamos is a great draw. I'm sure the casino crowd are thrilled to see him. And the babes love him so he is nice to have around   .

I dunno ... The Stones did cart John Mayer around on their most recent tour!

In fact, they played The Echoplex in Echo Park, which is like THE hippest place in Los Angeles. This is a place where the cream of the crop of local bands play regularly. You could throw the smallest stone (no pun) in any direction and it would hit someone in a very cool band on the up and up, most all of whom clamored to  get into the Stones gig! So, they play the Echoplex, and who do they wheel out as their big guest? Keith Urban!!!!!  ...... That's a much bigger clueless f*ck you to their fans than anything Mike could ever dream of doing!

I am young, listen to modern music, and think this album is not going to be very good. Some of the tracks we know are recycled. Others don't sound very promising based on their bland song titles. Brian may have been working on his Capitol release for a long time but we also know it has been reworked several times, his collaboration with Jeff Beck having been completely aborted. To me the lack of focus of these sessions as well as the nature of material indicates we are looking at a very forced album. He might be working harder than on GIOM but the inspiration still isn't there.

Since you know so much about the details, which tracks were recycled and what were they recycled from? Since when does a song title's blandness or excitement mean anything until you actually hear it? How many tracks were recorded with Jeff Beck and his jazz-fusion band, and how many were originally planned going into the proposed collaboration? Did you witness this "lack of focus" having been in the studio, or did you hear or read something none of us has seen? On what do you base your claim of the inspiration not being there, again were you involved in the project to know how "inspired" it was or was not at any given time in the process? Does reworking an album before it's given a final sequence and mastering exist as a music business rarity exclusive only to Brian Wilson, and only to music he's creating?

If you do know some of these details which no one else has heard, please fill us in, you'll help us fans sort things out properly and start assuming the negatives as you're able to do based on firsthand information so we don't come off looking like rose-colored-glasses-wearing naive fans.

What's the big deal that this kid has a feeling/opinion/hunch that the album will be this or that? Without perhaps knowing all the details you specify, there are enough pieces of the puzzle available to form a sort of preemptive opinion ..... I haven't heard anyone at all saying they'll never in a million years buy the album! No one's talking about organizing a boycott or anything. When tidbits of info and 10 second song snippets get released, people will talk and their imaginations will run wild.... Some will take Insider reports to heart and others will be a tad suspicious... It's just life and human nature ..... Why the irradiant indignation at some kid's musings?  ....

It's not always black and white! I remember all the fan and non fan chatter about Godfather 3, as one example before it came out .... The movie was released and many people dug it, many hated it and still hate it, while others have grown to love it! People bashed Coppola for casting his daughter in the role, and some still do. Some now accept her in the part, others love everything about the movie BUT her.... I guess it's a good example because, in the end, no one was 100 per cent correct. I think it's a great film, but there is as much to bitch about as there is to praise ...... just like most any work in any art form.

Ron, show some respect. That's not too much to ask, is it?

And get caught up with the conversation. Or just keep calling the guy a rapper, whatever floats your dinghy. From page 38 or so...

Why in the world would I not call him a rapper, when he raps on the song?  Why don't you show some respect for the word "Rapper".  It means "One who Raps".  

I am showing respect, I'm giving my OPINION, I'm not calilng anybody a homophobe, or a racist, although I personally have been called a homophobe and a racist.  

It's my opinion.  My opinion is the album may not be great because of what guests we've heard about, that's all.  I could be wrong.  I hope I'm wrong.  We'll have to see.  Nothing to see here.  Move along.  

Ron, it's your choice to want to be perceived as an a** or even to act like one as a schtick, but consider doing it elsewhere and you might find a more receptive audience to laugh at the jokes.

What I meant by respect isn't about rappers or Frank Ocean or anything of the sort, it's about respecting the actual people posting here and the people who come here to actually read and enjoy the discussions and debates, or to actually read about this new album.

Show respect, you'll get respect. We all get heated up and start arguing, but the last few pages have been pathetic.

Yes, we all get heated and argue.... Ron has just as much right to do so as you or anyone else.

We all need to start following our own rules if they are so important.

Sounds like you would rather have Brian make bland music with "all American" Mike Love and his warped nostalgia view of America.

But Mike's so-called view of America and The Beach Boys is not warped at all!!!!

Not to toot my own horn here, but I was born and raised right in the epicenter of Beach Boys-dom! Almost every single 4th of July or Summer day of my entire life has been steeped in Beach Boys! I've done it all! I've spent countless days at the beach, surfing, swimming, running: myself and my friends blasting Beach Boys, just like almost everyone else in sight! Nothing like catching a wave while The Girls On The Beach blares from the sand as you're actually gazing at girls on the beach! Then you wipe out and are thinking don't back down, just as Don't Back Down comes on next! .... Then it's dark and time to pack it up and head to someone's pad off the strand and get baked and put on Pet Sounds and get all deep and philosophical. Then someone who dropped acid freaks out when Smiley Smile or a SMILE bootleg comes on, so we toss Wild Honey on the turntable to cool then out, But then Love You comes on and wrecks their head, so we throw on Friends and it's all good ..... Then the next day at the beach someone's blasting Kokomo and we make a joke or two but still bop along to the beat.... What other band has helped create/define and symbolize a way of life like The Beach Boys???

Defending summer of love. I dig!

Just put on the video and look at Mike's face!! He F*CKING MEANS IT!!!!

Brian looks absolutely horrified in that clip, but he slaps his knee along to the beat like he hopes someone gets him out of there before he starts digging it

He likes Mike's voice, not his lack of songwriting inspiration.

People all around the world in every nation
Like to get together for some excitations
If you're a girl appreciates her recreation
Why don't you let me take you on a love vacation

Know something though? ..... As blankety-blank cheeseball as Summer Of Love is: Mike rapped like he meant it! And you just know that when he laid down that rap, he knew in his heart that it was THE greatest gift to popular music of all time! .... Now, THAT I can feel and respect ..... Plus, the song is catchy as hell ..... So, there's really no law that says we have to hate it!  ..... Nor is there a law saying a Brian/Frank Ocean rap song would be crap! But, it might not be wise to go using Summer Of Love as cannon fodder when at this very moment Brian's working on .......... a rap song...... The last one he attempted was not even half as craptastic as Summer Of Love.... So ....

Just because he may not be passionate about the guest singers, doesn`t mean that he hasn`t been passionately working on the music for the past 18 months.

Well... no... it kind of does mean he doesn't give a sh*t.  You can get a ton of examples of Brian not giving a sh*t on the last album he did that had guest artists.  Go check it out.  That's the whole point we're all trying to stab you with.  

So because GIOMH was crap then it follows that this will be a carbon copy?

The best indicator of future results is past experience.  

Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

Fool me once, shame on Brian Wilson.  Fool me twice, shame on me!

etc. etc. etc.

Every one of the guests on this album is making good music in the last two years and is under 30. It's p much the exact opposite of GIOMH, if you actually knew anything about modern music.

I hope you're right!

I'm really impressed that you're sad about that fact that Brian Wilson is collaborating with some talented musicians who aren't old white men.

He should probably give Mike a call, right?

What is your problem?  First you mention that two of them are homosexual, then you bring race into it... WTF man? 

It's my opinion.  The guests dont' sound great.  It has nothing to do with what color their genitals are.

I thought you were into country, you must have heard of Kacey Musgraves. She ain't homosexual, but wrote a song called Follow Your Arrow. You'd probably like it if you didn't think about it.

The guests don't sound great to you because you don't know sh*t about modern music, dude! It's ok to admit that, you're old now, but imagine how your dad would have felt if Johnny Cash was collaborating with Nick Cave. Who's Nick Cave? Some eighties man who sang a song with Kylie? f*** that.


Ron, you know nothing about modern music, and thus don't understand how cool it is that Brian is recording with these people. But you've gotta stop this 'GIOMH PART 2' nonsense.

You have to accept that these people are actually better than Eric Clapton.

So, if you think Frank Ocean is fantastic! And love Lana Del Rey, Zooey, and whoever the hell else: this means you know all about modern music? But if you're not a big fan of any or all of these people: it means you know nothing about modern music??

You are making assumptions that are not the case, actually listen to Frank Ocean to see why he is a fucking great SINGER who also raps.

Hey, Brian and Mike both rap! Why not just do a Beach Boys rap album and be done with it???

F&ck Me!!!!!

Love the man for what he has willingly given us already..... not what he may!!!

damn! Its Brian Wilson, how dare anyone put him in a box and expect ra ra ra!???

what's the matter with you people... we love him cos he did things out side of the box in the first place...

and now he may be doing that again, and you guys F'n shoot him down before you've heard the product???

something wrong with you pricks.

RickB

It seems like a lot of this so called shooting-down of Brian happens when people take hardcore offense of anyone who posts anything even remotely contrary to praise! People get pissed at these folk, these folk get pissed back and so on .....

Why don't we just create a "In Praise Of Brian's New Album" thread and then another "In Discussion (and perhaps criticism) Of Brian's New Album" thread? If people don't want to have to endure anything less than high praise for the album can they can choose not to venture into the second thread ... It's much easier to just ignore a thread in the first place over new posts in a thread one is already deep into .....

Just an idea.

It's only natural to have doubts, but it's no use trying to convince others that the album you haven't heard yet is going to be bad. You can voice your concerns about rapping on a BW album, but you can't outright criticize it before listening.

Sure you can.  You can criticize ideas, can't you?  It's a shitty idea.  I hope he proves me wrong, I hope it's the best rap song Brian Wilson's ever recorded.... but I doubt it.  

There's also the very real possibility that any one of these reported duets might not even make the finished album.

What I'm excited about are the reported Al/Brian lead vocal swaps n such!!!!! .... There hasn't yet been quite enough of that in the world!

Yes, that will be a highspot for sure.  It's kind of amazing that they haven't worked more together, since it seems they've never had a falling out or anything.

I wonder how Blondie's voice is holding up these days!


Either way, Blondie, Al, and Brian singing together could never possibly sound as bad as that Sting, Rod Stewart, Bryan Adams power ballad thingy from way back when.

How Deep Is The (Frank) Ocean

What I'm excited about are the reported Al/Brian lead vocal swaps n such!!!!! .... There hasn't yet been quite enough of that in the world!

[He owes us noting and should at his stage of the game be allowed to do as he pleases with nothing but our full support.]

We are all here because of Brian (and maybe a few other guys) yet some feel the need to complain while he's working his ass of to make us new music, at 72 years of age.

I genuinely think some people should be shamed for criticising the man. He owes us noting and should at his stage of the game be allowed to do as he pleases with nothing but our full support.

If the music sucks then of course voice your opinion when reviewing it but support Brian in his efforts.

I don`t think you are going to find any message board for any musician on the internet where criticism is banned.

No one talked about, discussed or argued over TWGMTR before it was released? Right? ...... We seem to be getting close to a banning criticism reality on this board! .... Let's please just all roll with it and then discuss, argue, praise, and criticize the album once it's released.

Yeah, I'll stop posting and lets watch the endless arguments and insults just magically stop!

It's worth a try.

lead by example perhaps?

Yeah, people just need to stop having opinions or caring so much about music they has been with them for their entire lives to the point where they might care to discuss details and might, by gosh, disagree with each other. We need to all get on whatever that drug was in Brave New World! But it would never work. Even if all of us did nothing but praise Brian day in/day out someone would eventually disagree or take issue with someone's specific praise.

Like Chuck said: you can't stop the train, gotta let it roll on!

If you like it so much, say something fucking positive!
Is it really so hard to just not respond to people you disagree with?

you are literally, responding to someone you're disagreeing with right now.  Calm down Sugar.

I wasn't having an argument that went on for days-on-end is the difference. Thanks for you concern.

Yeah, I'll stop posting and lets watch the endless arguments and insults just magically stop! .... Yeah, right.

I think what we need to ALL do is take a step back and think about how emotional we get when someone posts something we disagree with, and how personal this all is to us, and how righteously indignant we get in offense, and then take ...... another moment ..... and consider the possibility that the person we are about to fire upon with insults, ultimatums and tantrums (I'm just as guilty of this) has just as personal and intense of an emotional and intellectual experience with this music as we do ..... We're getting to the point where it's like a bunch of guys on a life raft in the middle of the ocean fighting about who loves the life raft most and who doesn't appreciate it enough because they might want to discuss how the boat is holding off, and someone else is like "Just jump into the ocean, bastard"

Yeah, people just need to stop having opinions or caring so much about music that has been with them for their entire lives to the point where they might care to discuss details and might, by gosh, disagree with each other. We need to all get on whatever that drug was in Brave New World and wait for the album to float down from the sky. But it would never work. Even if all of us did nothing but praise Brian day in/day out someone would eventually disagree or take issue with someone's specific praise.

Preach it, Brother.  not saying I agree with it though, I don't like the font you typed it in, asshole!    

Thank you! I did choose that particular font for maximum offensiveness!