*Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread

[KittyKat]

Oh, the horror. Not everyone who is on a board that isn't Brian's blueboard isn't a fan of Brian's solo work. That can't be! I personally don't think Brian's solo work stands up to his early work with the Beach Boys, but it also has something to do with my bias towards modern records in general. I don't like the antiseptic sounding production methods.  I don't listen to Brian's solo records too often at all, especially compared to Beach Boys' early (pre 1978) albums. Though I do buy them and admired some of them when I first bought them, I don't have them on repeat.

[HeyJude]

Oh, the horror. Not everyone who is on a board that isn't Brian's blueboard isn't a fan of Brian's solo work. That can't be! I personally don't think Brian's solo work stands up to his early work with the Beach Boys, but it also has something to do with my bias towards modern records in general. I don't like the antiseptic sounding production methods.  I don't listen to Brian's solo records too often at all, especially compared to Beach Boys' early (pre 1978) albums. Though I do buy them and admired some of them when I first bought them, I don't have them on repeat.

There’s certainly place here for any and every type of fan, even if you think everything any of them have done after the “Surfin’ Safari” single is total s**t.

But I don’t see much point in even clicking on a thread discussing Brian’s new/upcoming album if one doesn’t really like much if any of his solo material. There are plenty of discussions of the old material out there too.

I have extremely mixed feelings about his solo output. I’m probably not as big on his recent string of solo albums as some fans here. But I find the potential of the new album, based on information we have so far, to be potentially strong.

[The Shift]

Oh, the horror. Not everyone who is on a board that isn't Brian's blueboard isn't a fan of Brian's solo work. That can't be!

Have you seen Job's "collection"? It's pitiful:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15556.msg451873.html#msg451873

Calls himself a fan… mutter mutter… I don't see any of the Dumb Angel series there… mutter mutter…








 

[Ron]

He's been on a very good run since smile, every album has been at least good

GIOMH was awful.  The Xmas, Gershwin & Disney stuff doesn't count...all covers.  There has been no good run.

Well I suppose they shouldn't count as albums of original material, but as a performer they certainly do count. The Gershwin and Disney albums feature some of Brian's best vocals since the early 70's and the production has been top notch.

I'm 35.  I hadn't heard 4 or 5 songs on the Christmas album (which is pretty incredible)... hadn't heard 80% of the songs on the Gershwin album, and hadn't heard half of the Disney album songs.

So to me, at least half of each of those albums were new music.  I don't give a sh*t who wrote it, a lot of it was excellent. 

To be completely honest, I wish Brian would let other people write his music more often.  Lyrically he's always been a bit weak in my opinion, but his production, and his singing are STILL at genius level like they've always been. 

[KittyKat]

He's been on a very good run since smile, every album has been at least good

GIOMH was awful.  The Xmas, Gershwin & Disney stuff doesn't count...all covers.  There has been no good run.

Well I suppose they shouldn't count as albums of original material, but as a performer they certainly do count. The Gershwin and Disney albums feature some of Brian's best vocals since the early 70's and the production has been top notch.

I'm 35.  I hadn't heard 4 or 5 songs on the Christmas album (which is pretty incredible)... hadn't heard 80% of the songs on the Gershwin album, and hadn't heard half of the Disney album songs.

So to me, at least half of each of those albums were new music.  I don't give a sh*t who wrote it, a lot of it was excellent. 

To be completely honest, I wish Brian would let other people write his music more often.  Lyrically he's always been a bit weak in my opinion, but his production, and his singing are STILL at genius level like they've always been. 

The one thing that Brian is consistently given credit for doing all by himself is arranging vocal harmony on his recordings and other artists that he's worked for in that capacity. Either singing parts all by himself or getting other people to sing them, he doesn't require assistance to do that, at least not that I've ever read about. So, since that is a key part of his signature sound, it's an important job to still be fully competent at.

[Ron]

Definately.  That's his true genius, and I think it's untouched and as great as it's ever been.  You can't really point to a vocal arrangement on any of the early stuff that's any better than what he's still doing.  The arrangement on "Shelter" is mind-numbingly amazing.  The doowop, showy harmonies on "From There to Back Again" are as jazzy as anything he ever did...

Even when a song is a complete bomb to some people, you can point to the harmonies and the vocal arrangement as still pretty stunning.  A great example (for me) is something like "Kiss the Girl" on the Disney album.  I don't really like the song but damn if the vocal arrangement isn't fascinating. 

or "The Private Life of Bill and Sue".  Not that great of a song in my opinion, but the arrangement is incredible. 

I wish he would have in his career, graced us with more songs that he produced, arranged, and sang backup vocals for other bands or singers.  Not that he can't sing lead or it's not good, just if he took someone else's song or single, and produced, arranged, and sang backup for them it would be incredible more times than not. 

The possibilities will make you go crazy, can you imagine Michael Jackson singing something with Brian Wilson arranging it?  Or if U2 had done a song with Brian doing all the backing vocals?  Or something crazy like the Red Hot Chili Peppers, what if they would have done a california Surf song and got Brian to arrange it, and produce it?

I wish he would have whored himself out a little more, and I'm serious about that.  I think we really only ever got a small sample of Brian's true genius, and he was rarely in a situation where he was working in an environment that played to his strengths.

Brian's always the whole show, and like most genius musicians, he is better served with someone to bounce ideas off of instead of just having free reign to do whatever he wants. 

Just my .02

[ToneBender631]

I posted this recently in another thread (or maybe this one?!), but I'd love to see Brian work with a bunch of artists as producer/arranger and do a  "Artist X, Presented by Brian Wilson" series. I've got a few artists off the top of my head that I think he'd do some really cool stuff with, provided he actually communicated with them in the studio. 

[shadownoze]

I once suggested (to absolutely no reaction) that Brian could easily do projects like Quincy Jones does. When you buy a Quincy album, it's HIS name on the cover, but he enlists dozens of the greatest musicians and singers in the world. He doesn't write the songs, for the most part, doesn't sing a note, doesn't play any of the instruments...but it's STILL a Quincy Jones album and he usually wins an armload of Grammies for each one.
Maybe Brian's new album will be more along those lines; seems to have tons of guest stars.

[Sound of Free]

The one thing that Brian is consistently given credit for doing all by himself is arranging vocal harmony on his recordings and other artists that he's worked for in that capacity. Either singing parts all by himself or getting other people to sing them, he doesn't require assistance to do that, at least not that I've ever read about. So, since that is a key part of his signature sound, it's an important job to still be fully competent at.

That's a great point. There's that interview clip with Mike where he says how Brian was a genius at arranging vocals and then says, "Still is, actually."

[Andrew G. Doe]

And Brian wrote and produced an entire album of original material in 2012, too, for his group. You know, the Beach Boys.

I'll bet you $50,000,000 that you're wrong in saying this. And I'll win. I'll take a check. 

Me being pedantic aside, do you really think he wrote and produced every single note on TWGMTR ? Of course he didn't: it's got the fingerprints of Joe Thomas all over it. Think how much more astonishing it would have been but for this...

[Wirestone]

And Brian wrote and produced an entire album of original material in 2012, too, for his group. You know, the Beach Boys.

I'll bet you $50,000,000 that you're wrong in saying this. And I'll win. I'll take a check.  

Me being pedantic aside, do you really think he wrote and produced every single note on TWGMTR ? Of course he didn't: it's got the fingerprints of Joe Thomas all over it. Think how much more astonishing it would have been but for this...

I don't know quite what your point is, Andrew. I understand the caveats (a chunk of the material came from the late 90s, the sessions predated the release year). But given the context of the discussion -- which involved the amount of original material BW had written on record -- surely TWGMTR was of import.

And as for the notion that I believe he wrote and produced every note on the record -- I'm kind of insulted you would even suggest as much. There were co-writers and co-producers. As there have been on nearly every single BW project since the 60s.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Definately.  That's his true genius, and I think it's untouched and as great as it's ever been.  You can't really point to a vocal arrangement on any of the early stuff that's any better than what he's still doing.  The arrangement on "Shelter" is mind-numbingly amazing.  The doowop, showy harmonies on "From There to Back Again" are as jazzy as anything he ever did...

Even when a song is a complete bomb to some people, you can point to the harmonies and the vocal arrangement as still pretty stunning.  A great example (for me) is something like "Kiss the Girl" on the Disney album.  I don't really like the song but damn if the vocal arrangement isn't fascinating.  

or "The Private Life of Bill and Sue".  Not that great of a song in my opinion, but the arrangement is incredible.  

I wish he would have in his career, graced us with more songs that he produced, arranged, and sang backup vocals for other bands or singers.  Not that he can't sing lead or it's not good, just if he took someone else's song or single, and produced, arranged, and sang backup for them it would be incredible more times than not.  

The possibilities will make you go crazy, can you imagine Michael Jackson singing something with Brian Wilson arranging it?  Or if U2 had done a song with Brian doing all the backing vocals?  Or something crazy like the Red Hot Chili Peppers, what if they would have done a california Surf song and got Brian to arrange it, and produce it?

I wish he would have whored himself out a little more, and I'm serious about that.  I think we really only ever got a small sample of Brian's true genius, and he was rarely in a situation where he was working in an environment that played to his strengths.

Brian's always the whole show, and like most genius musicians, he is better served with someone to bounce ideas off of instead of just having free reign to do whatever he wants.  

Just my .02

Brian's always the whole show?

How do you explain The Beach Boys then???


I think it's more like, we WANT Brian to always be the whole show. But he's rarely ever been ......

[pixletwin]

I don't know quite what your point is, Andrew.

The great sum of his entire point was this:

Me being pedantic...

That is all.  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And as for the notion that I believe he wrote and produced every note on the record -- I'm kind of insulted you would even suggest as much. There were co-writers and co-producers. As there have been on nearly every single BW project since the 60s.

Not really in response to you, but as an aside...
Most of Brian's work in his lifetime were co-writes,  and for what it's worth, there are many people called 'co-producers' and/or 'co-writers' these days who have done *less* work than the suggestions made by members of the Wrecking Crew did back in the day. Times have changed, but that's part of the reason so many pop songs have five or six (or more...) writers on the track. Oftentimes the song's not written any differently than 'back in the day', but the way credits are assigned has indeed changed. Whether that's due to general etiquette or a change in copywrite law, I couldn't honestly tell you.

[Wirestone]

And as for the notion that I believe he wrote and produced every note on the record -- I'm kind of insulted you would even suggest as much. There were co-writers and co-producers. As there have been on nearly every single BW project since the 60s.

Not really in response to you, but as an aside...
Most of Brian's work in his lifetime were co-writes,  and for what it's worth, there are many people called 'co-producers' and/or 'co-writers' these days who have done *less* work than the suggestions made by members of the Wrecking Crew did back in the day. Times have changed, but that's part of the reason so many pop songs have five or six (or more...) writers on the track. Oftentimes the song's not written any differently than 'back in the day', but the way credits are assigned has indeed changed. Whether that's due to general etiquette or a change in copywrite law, I couldn't honestly tell you.

Chuck Britz, for example, would almost certainly get production credits today. And Carl would have gotten some far earlier.

That's what I wasn't bothered by the "Recorded by Joe Thomas" credit on TWGMTR -- it was almost a knowing wink to the past.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

In one of his interviews (I think it was the one in 2005 with Charlie Rose, or the one he did in 2011 with that annoying hipster dude) Brian was asked how he came up with every single musical part, and Brian's response was along the lines of 'I didn't ' , and pretty much said that he's always had help.

[c-man]

And as for the notion that I believe he wrote and produced every note on the record -- I'm kind of insulted you would even suggest as much. There were co-writers and co-producers. As there have been on nearly every single BW project since the 60s.

Not really in response to you, but as an aside...
Most of Brian's work in his lifetime were co-writes,  and for what it's worth, there are many people called 'co-producers' and/or 'co-writers' these days who have done *less* work than the suggestions made by members of the Wrecking Crew did back in the day. Times have changed, but that's part of the reason so many pop songs have five or six (or more...) writers on the track. Oftentimes the song's not written any differently than 'back in the day', but the way credits are assigned has indeed changed. Whether that's due to general etiquette or a change in copywrite law, I couldn't honestly tell you.

Well, there was a lot of that going on back in the day, too. Not with the BBs, but there's many cases where someone's name ended up on a record label as producer or cowriter when it didn't belong there. Same reason many songwriters got screwed in terms of music publishing. Somebody owed someone a favor, and there you go.

[Andrew G. Doe]

And Brian wrote and produced an entire album of original material in 2012, too, for his group. You know, the Beach Boys.

I'll bet you $50,000,000 that you're wrong in saying this. And I'll win. I'll take a check.  

Me being pedantic aside, do you really think he wrote and produced every single note on TWGMTR ? Of course he didn't: it's got the fingerprints of Joe Thomas all over it. Think how much more astonishing it would have been but for this...

I don't know quite what your point is, Andrew. I understand the caveats (a chunk of the material came from the late 90s, the sessions predated the release year). But given the context of the discussion -- which involved the amount of original material BW had written on record -- surely TWGMTR was of import.

And as for the notion that I believe he wrote and produced every note on the record -- I'm kind of insulted you would even suggest as much. There were co-writers and co-producers. As there have been on nearly every single BW project since the 60s.

Point 1 - you say he wrote and produced the entire album. He didn't. OK, me being somewhat picky, but surely you've looked at the credits. Here's a hint: track seven.

Point 2 - Again, you stated "the entire album". Clay you're a way better journalist than I ever was or will ever be, but that doesn't excuse Bloo-level sloppiness of expression on a forum such as this. Especially on a forum such as this. 

[HeyJude]

And Brian wrote and produced an entire album of original material in 2012, too, for his group. You know, the Beach Boys.

I'll bet you $50,000,000 that you're wrong in saying this. And I'll win. I'll take a check. 

Me being pedantic aside, do you really think he wrote and produced every single note on TWGMTR ? Of course he didn't: it's got the fingerprints of Joe Thomas all over it. Think how much more astonishing it would have been but for this...

Let’s also be fair in pointing out that if we’re going to get into the semantics of what “writing” a song consists of, I’d question any fully-formed song with chords that has only Mike Love’s name on the songwriting credits, or only has the name of any single person who more or less doesn’t play a musical instrument. Did he write out the actual chord changes for “Daybreak Over the Ocean”? Or did he just sing a melody and have someone lay the chords beneath it? At least Brian put Joe Thomas’ name on the stuff Thomas co-wrote.

I frankly don’t care whose name is on the stuff. If it’s new, and it’s a good song and performed well, that’s what’s important.

To the discussion at hand, clearly it was relating to “original” material, not “100% solely written by Brian” material. When it comes to material that has actually been released officially, I’d be curious to know when the last time was that any of these guys sat alone in a room and wrote a complete song with no input from anybody else.

[Awesoman]

And as for the notion that I believe he wrote and produced every note on the record -- I'm kind of insulted you would even suggest as much. There were co-writers and co-producers. As there have been on nearly every single BW project since the 60s.

Not really in response to you, but as an aside...
Most of Brian's work in his lifetime were co-writes...

You could even argue that some of his songs were rewrites...

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

And Brian wrote and produced an entire album of original material in 2012, too, for his group. You know, the Beach Boys.

I'll bet you $50,000,000 that you're wrong in saying this. And I'll win. I'll take a check. 

Me being pedantic aside, do you really think he wrote and produced every single note on TWGMTR ? Of course he didn't: it's got the fingerprints of Joe Thomas all over it. Think how much more astonishing it would have been but for this...

Let’s also be fair in pointing out that if we’re going to get into the semantics of what “writing” a song consists of, I’d question any fully-formed song with chords that has only Mike Love’s name on the songwriting credits, or only has the name of any single person who more or less doesn’t play a musical instrument. Did he write out the actual chord changes for “Daybreak Over the Ocean”? Or did he just sing a melody and have someone lay the chords beneath it? At least Brian put Joe Thomas’ name on the stuff Thomas co-wrote.

My (pedantic) point is - did Brian write "Daybreak" ? No. Did he produce it ? No.

[Wirestone]

When it comes to material that has actually been released officially, I’d be curious to know when the last time was that any of these guys sat alone in a room and wrote a complete song with no input from anybody else.

I would think "Good Kind of Love," by Brian in 2006.

[Wirestone]

And Brian wrote and produced an entire album of original material in 2012, too, for his group. You know, the Beach Boys.

I'll bet you $50,000,000 that you're wrong in saying this. And I'll win. I'll take a check. 

Me being pedantic aside, do you really think he wrote and produced every single note on TWGMTR ? Of course he didn't: it's got the fingerprints of Joe Thomas all over it. Think how much more astonishing it would have been but for this...

Let’s also be fair in pointing out that if we’re going to get into the semantics of what “writing” a song consists of, I’d question any fully-formed song with chords that has only Mike Love’s name on the songwriting credits, or only has the name of any single person who more or less doesn’t play a musical instrument. Did he write out the actual chord changes for “Daybreak Over the Ocean”? Or did he just sing a melody and have someone lay the chords beneath it? At least Brian put Joe Thomas’ name on the stuff Thomas co-wrote.

My (pedantic) point is - did Brian write "Daybreak" ? No. Did he produce it ? No.

Is it an excuse to say I blocked that out of my memory?

No?

Okay, then it's a point for you, you crafty curmudgeon.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

[KittyKat]

Why wouldn't Mike be able to write a song by himself? Because he probably can. Not a great one, but you don't need to know how to play a musical instrument well to be able to write a song, including chord changes. Mike learned to play the sax at one point (barely), he grew up with a grand piano around the house, had a musical mom, and mentioned in his Ella acceptance speech that he could read the chord charts when they were making the Beach Boys Christmas album. It only takes beginner level skill to be able to know a few simple chords with chord changes/relationships and write a melody. Mike has written small melody parts for "I Get Around, " "Good Vibrations," and "Kokomo." Not the whole song, but a whole song is not a stretch if you can write a part here or there. Where it gets more difficult to write a completed song is setting it out rhythmically so that other players can play it and it will have a proper beat, so he may have gotten some help with that.