The Beach Boys and Jazz

[the captain]

I don't really know enough about jazz theory to comment fully, but I'd say the textures (Brian's voicings of arrangement strike me as inventive in the same way as Duke Ellington or someone can be) and chord structures of swing, and 30's and 40's jazz that BW heard around the home in his upbringing are an undeniable influence, even discounting Gershwin. He's always got praise for singers like Rosemary Clooney and Sinatra, too. And yeah, The Freshmen. I mean, Brian essentially taught himself how to write music from advanced jazz harmony. I don't think anyone is trying to pin him down as Miles Davis, say. Maybe more Gil Evans.

Well said, and I would say true.

The thing that can derail this or any conversation is that there are no clean lines between these types of music. Pop music, for example, is what? Popular music. What is popular changes. Jazz is in some ways what you'd want to call classical, in that it can be written in such a way as to be tremendously complex and playable (even listenable, in a sense) by only schooled musicians; so too is it more or less folk music, accessible to anyone who wants to play or listen. Folk music is music of the "common man," yes? If so, then that includes blues. Or in a way rock 'n' roll, which could be considered a combination of blues and a certain kind of white southern folk that is also similar to country. And on and on and on.

All musics grow from other musics; all musics inform other musics. And while it becomes easy to find the dead center--most anyone could say that Charlie Parker was a jazz musician, or Chuck Berry was a rock 'n' roller--the edges blur pretty quickly. Add to that the issues of self-identification (musicians and their fans can be the worst at saying what IS NOT their kind of music as a form of insult, i.e., "Kenny G isn't jazz") that come with the integrity / scenester / traditionalism / avante gardes of every kind of music out of ego, and well, we end up with threads about this sort of thing, I guess.

Also, regarding where jazz came from, I don't think there is an accurate history about it, largely because it was being developed by mostly illiterate people and many of the people around them didn't much care what they were doing or why. But it seems safe to say that it grew out of a combination of West African musical ideas, including the all-important blue notes, and European harmony and song forms.

[SMiLE Brian]

I'm currently taking a Jazz history class, so i'm learning the basics and friends reminded me somewhat of Jazz.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Ragtime was the first printed jazz music, but yes, it was around before that. Not sure it grew out of the blues. Though they have a lot of similarities and influenced each other, jazz was always very much a separate entity. Obviously, both jazz and the blues have their roots in negro spiritual music. Both have always been intertwined with each other.

The seeds of jazz can be found in the american civil war. I have heard two versions of how it began. Both are probably true.

1) Negro soldiers were not deemed worthy of fighting alongside whites, so they were "relegated" to the marching band and given instruments such as snare drums, bass drums, trombones and trumpets.

2) Above instruments were requisitioned from the battlefield by freed slaves.

I prefer version 1, as I like the idea of the black soldiers subverting military instruments and doing their own thang.

Freed slaves created the "Drum-Kit" from scavenging together the percussion instruments from military marching bands and trying to figure out a way to play them all by one guy at one time!

Pretty damn cool!

[Lowbacca]

I'm currently taking a Jazz history class, so i'm learning the basics and friends reminded me somewhat of Jazz.

Me too. I had an introduction to jazz history this semester. 

[guitarfool2002]

That's good to hear jazz history is still being offered! Getting past the somewhat stuffy and academic reputation jazz has gotten in the past few decades, if you dig into the actual music and forget the Ken Burns histrionics, you'll find music that delivers everything you could ask for when being moved by a series of notes and chords.

Lester Young and Billie Holliday doing "Fine And Mellow" on television in the late 50's...hearing Lester's one-chorus tenor solo has moved me to tears as much as any other piece of music has done. I don't think I've ever seen two musicians connect like that without saying a single word to each other, it's stunning. It's good to read and study jazz and memorize all the dates and names, but that kind of music is what has to be experienced.

[the captain]

It's good to read and study jazz and memorize all the dates and names, but that kind of music is what has to be experienced.

I agree and expand the point: all music has to be experience. The trivia is just that, in my opinion. It's all well and good to fetishize the collectables, I guess, but that isn't about music.

[onkster]

SMiLE actually made me appreciate jazz more than anything else before--namely, how the tonality of the instruments expresses different moods/feelings. SMiLE was when Brian really hit his stride with arrangements--he'd hit it once before with voices, then again with instruments on SMiLE. That's part of what makes SMiLE so powerful also--two kinds of arrangement happening at their peak.

[guitarfool2002]

It's good to read and study jazz and memorize all the dates and names, but that kind of music is what has to be experienced.

I agree and expand the point: all music has to be experience. The trivia is just that, in my opinion. It's all well and good to fetishize the collectables, I guess, but that isn't about music.

Good point, for all styles and genres of music. I also think for as much good as a jazz history course (or any music appreciation class) does to introduce the music, the necessity of memorizing dates and names can possibly cloud the mind a bit, putting memorization ahead of emotional connection. And I've taken my share of these courses, some required for my degree and some out of pure interest, and I really can't think of too many cases where I've personally connected with a song that was played over the worn-out stereos in a classroom or lecture hall as part of the class listening. I always connected more with a piece when I had a copy and listened on my own terms, in my own place and own time.

I'm thankful for taking the classes and getting the education, but I'd also suggest taking the outside initiative and picking up some of these songs to listen as you would your preferred style of music. If something still doesn't quite connect, at least you aired it out on your own terms. It is better than hearing some of Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives and Hot Sevens in a lecture hall with a sheet of dates and names in front of you and deciding on that experience it wasn't something I'd listen to again.

Just my two cents worth of opinion and advice...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

SMiLE actually made me appreciate jazz more than anything else before--namely, how the tonality of the instruments expresses different moods/feelings. SMiLE was when Brian really hit his stride with arrangements--he'd hit it once before with voices, then again with instruments on SMiLE. That's part of what makes SMiLE so powerful also--two kinds of arrangement happening at their peak.

Back in the early 90's, SMiLE was a stepping stone for many differnt genres of music for me. Classical music, baroque music, early music and jazz. I came to them all from SMiLE.

[adamghost]

This makes me think of a spirited conversation I had 15 years ago when i was on the road with a hardcore music (read: jazz) snob.  When I said jazz didn't move me that much at that time, he countered with, "but that makes no sense...you're into Brian Wilson, right?  That's just one step away from real music, man!"

He meant it as a compliment, in a weird way.