The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hello everyone.

I have been a daily reader of this board for the past two years, but haven’t registered until now. I’m always a bit intimidated when it comes to talking to new people, even on the internet (I guess my social-anxiety is present online as well), so I have been putting it off for a while. I want to thank you all, though, for having provided me with hours and hours of interesting reads. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve stayed up WAY past my bedtime because I just HAD to finish reading a thread. You all have so interesting, well-informed opinions on Brian and the boys, and I feel like I have learned more about them here, than I have from reading any book on them.

That said, I have a burning question, and I couldn’t think of a better place to turn. I hope that’s okay.

I was looking at the Blueboard yesterday, and followed a link someone posted to a Google-Group called “Diamond Headz”. I'm very interested in knowing more about Marilyn Wilson, so I always search for her name first on Beach Boys-related messageboards. Anyway, I stumbled upon a thread where one person asked whether she and Brian still kept in touch, and someone said that he highly doubted it, and that, years ago in an interview, when Brian was asked what his biggest regret in life was, he said “Marrying my first wife.”

I have never heard of Brian saying anything disloyal about Marilyn before (but I could be wrong of course), so I was shocked to hear that he has said something like that. What I would like to know from you, is whether any of you have ever read/seen the interview where he supposedly said that, and whether he elaborated on it? Also, if he actually said that, when did the interview take place? I mean, what year?

If he did say that, I have to say that I’m slightly appalled by it. Maybe because I would imagine it would be pretty crushing for both Marilyn and the kids to read something like that, especially considering all the stuff I would think he would regret.

I know that Brian has a tendency of saying something different in every interview, but still, that was a low blow (if he did in fact say that).

Okay, I suppose that was it. I’m looking forward to reading your responses :)

They are friends, I never heard him say anything like that. She may be one of the only ones who ever loved him for him.

Welcome Luna! :)

Not quite sure if that is true. However, issues with his current wife have been well documented, so who knows?

Issues with his current wife?? jeez would love to hear more bout that.

Anyway something in me doubts Brian ever said that, and if he did he never meant it.

Well one that I can talk about because Brian did himself is that Cry was inspired by Brian wanting a seperation and Melinda crying.

Thank you very much for your replies :)


That is what I have always thought as well. She talks so lovingly about him in documentaries, and I just always got the feeling that they kept it very civil and respectful. That's why I was so shocked when I read that supposed "quote", because it just seemed so unlike Brian and out of the blue.


Thank you very much :) And you're right, I just really hope it's not true. Maybe it's silly of me to care so much about something like that, but I guess I have a very soft spot for Marilyn and everything she went through.


I don't think he would say something like that, either. Unless it was said during the Landy years.

When interviewed on the Larry King show back in 2004, Larry basically asked Brian if he was ever unfaithful to Marylin, when it came to the temptation of groupies on the road during the Beach Boys heyday. Brian replied, "No, i loved her". He sounded and looked very sincere with his statement.
From everything i've read and seen on Marylin, i feel that she is a genuine woman who truly cared about Brian's happiness.
Unlike a lot of people around Brian, i don't think she cared at all that he was Brian Wilson - the musical genius/big money maker. That's just the vibe i get from her.

I read the transcript from that interview, and was so impressed with what Brian said when Melinda took that cheap shot at Marilyn. I also remember the quote you mentioned, and thought that sounded very genuine as well, very Brian. I also completely agree with your perception of Marilyn - she seems like a very special woman, who loved and cared about Brian on a very deep level, and still does. I can't fathom those who feel that she didn't do enough for him - I can't imagine what it must've been like for her.

I was always surprised that Marilyn and Brian divorced. I'm not downplaying any of the circumstances - I'm sure they were quite serious. Just surprised that they didn't hang in there longer, after everything that they went through at such a young age. Not judging, though....I guess a person can only take so much.

Yeah, I get the sense that they still have love for each other. Apparently Brian still calls Marilyn on occasion. I suppose he still sees her as one of the safe people he can count on for support. She seems unbelievably normal, considering all that she's been through. Although Carnie isn't nearly as unstable as Brian, she seems to share some of his traits, and Marilyn seems to offer similar support.

In terms of Melinda's "cheap shot," I can see the issue from both sides. Melinda, Brian's current wife, who must deal with Brian's issues every day, is exasperated, wondering why no one thought to take Brian to the psych department at UCLA, which was so close by. On the other hand, Marilyn was so young and had a lot to deal with, including Brian, who was a lot more "with it" and able to slither away than he probably is now. 

So I don't really take sides here. Clearly Marilyn and Melinda have very different personalities, but both have tried to give Brian support in their own way... Marilyn is a nurturer and seems pretty laid back, while Melinda encourages Brian to get moving.  Both are sort of maternal in their love for him.

Brian says a lot of things that might mean one thing but they come out sounding kind of weird...I don't think Brian truly regrets marrying Marilyn; I think he might have thought that in retrospect, it was kind of a bad idea because Marilyn was only 16 years old at the time, and he pretty much nagged her into marrying him because of his insecurities.

And when Larry King was talking about Smile, he asked Brian, "What was missing all those years [that kept you from finishing it]?" And Brian's response was, "A third movement." I think he took the question literally, and just answered in the most literal way possible....know what I mean???

And regarding the UCLA thing....I never interpreted that as a cheap shot, but just a difference in thinking. In the '70s, you just didn't send your celebrity family to something public -- that could be bad publicity! So you have to find some kind of whacky indy guy...know what I'm sayin'?

Why does Marilyn still keep the Wilson last name?

How things change ten years later.

That always struck me as odd too. She goes by Marilyn Wilson-Rutherford, so she's got the names of both of her husbands!  Maybe it's because professionally (as a singer) she was known as Marilyn Wilson, so she wanted it to be recognizable. Or maybe it's because she's proud of her association with the Wilson family.

I'm just speculating. I'm sure others know more than I do.

Here's the thing that I still don't get, and I've brought this up before. Did Marilyn ever really acknowledge the role mental illness played in Brian's life, or did she always mostly attribute his decline to drugs?  The reason I wonder is because of answers like this, from a Kingsley Abbot interview:

Q: In retrospect, do you think Brian could have coped, or been helped to cope with the pressures that came from success?

A: I think Brian would have been able to cope, if it were not for drugs. Anyone who knew Brian, pre-drugs, saw an eccentric, talented, beautiful, sensitive person, who made them laugh, and feel good. He was a beautiful human being.

Like  everyone else in the family, she  blames it all on  the drugs. That's obviously another difference of opinion between Marilyn and Melinda.

Oh yes, I completely understand what you're saying, and I guess that's what you have to take into consideration with every interview Brian does. He says what he's thinking right at that moment, and his answer to one question would most likely be different five minutes later. You're very right. As for the cheap shot, I suppose I just feel like it was... unnecessary for her to say what she did, the way she did. It was obvious what she was trying to say, to me at least, and it wasn't really very flattering to Marilyn at all, at least to me, but perhaps I'm just interpreting it wrong. That very well could be :)


I think it's so nice to hear that they are still in touch. I couldn't imagine being married to someone for fourteen years and then cutting all ties like that.

I think the reason why I use the term "cheap shot", is because I just find it very easy for Melinda to criticise what Marilyn did and did not do when she wasn't around to experience Brian as he was back then. I respect both of Brian's wives for what they have had to go through, and I would just think that Melinda would be more... I guess, understanding, in terms of what it must've been like for Marilyn and what a tremendous responsibility it must've been.

To be honest, and this is just something I have thought of, but doesn't Melinda have a much bigger support-system, in terms of taking care of Brian and his needs, than Marilyn did? I'm sure that the people who were in Brian's life back in the day tried to help, but I would think they knew a lot less about mental illness in the 1960s and 1970s,  than they do now. Brian has been properly diagnosed now, and is on the right medication, and while he's still not well, he's not a 35-year old drug-addict on top of that, either. I guess I just feel that Melinda had more of a sense of what she was getting into when she chose to marry Brian, than Marilyn did, and that alone gave her an advantage. It's very easy to have a 20/20 hindsight on somebody else's behalf, especially when Melinda is being presented now as being Brian's saving grace, the love and support he never had, the wife who made him finish SMiLE, etc. I don't know, I have a lot of respect for both of the women, but I still feel like Melinda took a cheap shot by mentioning what she did. That's just my opinion, though :)

I have never really thought anything of that, to be honest. They were married for so long, and I know many women who get divorced and never choose to change their last names back (or to something different). I think what is peculiar is that Marilyn chose to keep it even after she got re-married, but then again, I guess I feel like she earned the right to that last name, you know? Plus, it probably felt natural to her to keep it, as when she got re-married, she had been Marilyn Wilson for 36 years. I would even guess that perhaps it felt more natural and right than Marilyn Rovell-Rutherford.

Not to change the initial  subject of this thread, but I have a sneaky suspicion that Brian and Marilyn may still love each other. Or may possibly still be "in love". Now, here me out on this. Brian and Marilyn's romantic relationship never really ended in a mutual way. By 1977/1978, Brian was getting sicker and sicker, and Marilyn pretty much was left alone by herself. Then Brian suddenly ended their marriage.  I don't mean to speak bad about Brian. His illness was probably more at fault than HE actually was. It wasn't untill the early 1980's that Brian had a truly clear head for the first time in almost a decade. I have a strange feeling that he may somehow, deep down inside, regret  wanting a divorce from Marilyn.

Melinda is getting too much credit here. I don't like her on any level and I am sorry to say that. I really wish I could say different.

I have an almost violent hatred of the woman, so don't feel bad MBE.  ;D

Thirded.

Well, I don't give her a lot of credit, so if it came off that way, that wasn't intended at all. When I say I respect her, it's more like a... I respect the fact that she, at least by what we get to see (I know others get to see other things), seems to take care of Brian, and Brian seems to feel safe with her (then again, didn't he also end up feeling safe with Landy?). I have respect for both of Brian's wives on that level, although I have more respect for Marilyn (and I also like her a lot more, but that's another story). I'm not a Melinda fan by any means.

I don't have the same insider-information as others have, although I have heard the rumors, and if those are true, then obviously that respect is gone. When I said that she is being presented as his saving grace, etc, then I meant that every single article and interview seems to make a big point out of mentioning Melinda, his new adopted children, and how everything came together and became wonderful solely because of his new family. Even SMiLE seemed to become a family project, or at least the SMiLE book that I got after a concert I attended last year had a lot of mentions of his kids and Melinda. There was even one of Daria's drawings in there, which could've been Brian's idea, I guess, but I doubt it.

So, yes, sorry about that. I guess I should've made that more clear, but I wanted to try to keep my post before Melinda-bashing-free :P

That's a very interesting theory, and a theory that I like. I guess that's just the hopeless romantic in me, though. It seems like Brian and Marilyn had something very special, and it's really a shame that they had so few good years together. Who knows what would have happened if things hadn't taken the turn they did. That's something I think about sometimes, although I guess we'll never know. But it's interesting to speculate :)

One of the funniest, and possibly most telling, things I have read/heard is a quote from Brian about his marriage. The interviewer was asking about the emotional security that Melinda provides Brian, and he up and went and said something about how they never have sex. A little too much information, you know. I took that as Brian being Brian, until he said the same thing in other interviews/articles, and I think the USA Today piece on Imagination was one of them. What I found funny about it is that he inserted that little tidbit in the middle of a conversation about something else, kind of like " I'm happy now. Real emotionally secure. The sex thing, not so much. I'm really excited about my new album," or something to that effect. For some reason it reminded me of that part in the Wilson Project book where he said "I farted" in the middle of talking about something else and continued the conversation like he never even said that. :lol

That is SO Brian.

Yeah, no doubt. I really think there's money to be made in a book full of Brian's quotes, kind of like the "In Their Own Words" Beach Boys book. I can picture it now "The Wit and Wisdom of Brian Douglas Wilson". To top it off, there should be a section where Brian is asked about a variety of different topics (war, drugs, sex, religion, food) and he has to say the first that that comes to mind. Which is pretty much what he does anyway, but still...

There's money to be made in that, people!

I like food.  ;D

Hahaha, that would be an interesting read, I'm sure. The funniest (and probably the most endearing) thing is that he doesn't even realise how it sounds to other people. He's just answering questions honestly, and probably doesn't put any thought into whether it's appropriate or not. Very childlike.

I remember the quote that someone else shared in another thread, about how he doesn't listen to the Beach Boys' music, because that would be like masturbating to your own stuff (or something to that extend). SO Brian.

Q: Brian, what is your opinion on the war in Iraq?
A: The world needs more love. Love and Mercy, I call it. Cake is good. Very good. Real spiritual, cake is.


:lol Yep, and he made the hand jesture, too.

BTW, welcome to the board!

Aww, Brian and his cake. Wouldn't it be funny if Brian got his people to ship a ton of birthday cake to Iraq to preach love and mercy? Something like that wouldn't even shock me anymore, honestly.

Ha, the hand gesture was just the cherry on top. I laughed so hard when I read that, because I could just picture Brian doing that, and then carrying on like nothing happened. I wonder if the interviewer could keep a straight face.

And thank you so much :)

Listen very carefully at around 5:03 into this clip:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FuaY96UsmK8

:lol I like how that was not spoken over by the narrator. If you didn't know the context...

Brian's barber f***ed up, as you can tell his hair is uneven in the back. I hate it when that happens.

Now, that was way back in 1988. For Brian to say that once is funny. For him to do it again is just plain disturbing.  :lol

I doubt Brian wanted a divorce. The final straw from Marilyn's site was when Brian tried to give young Carnie a drug. Now think about that for 2 seconds. You can only imagine what else was going on in the Wilson household around that time. And that was after the first Landy therapy. I guess Marilyn just didn't have the nerves to go through the whole hell once again, they had two children to raise. Landy was the only doctor who had any success with Brian, they tried different psychiatrists before.

I read the interview where Brian said he regretted his first marriage.  I'm not sure where it was from, but I have no problem believing Brian said it and may have meant it at the time.  As is often pointed out, he can change his mind from day to day.  But they were both awfully young when they married.  Brian had such severe problems.  Maybe he meant in that statement that he regretted putting Marilyn through so much, not just that he was sorry he married her because he wasn't happy with her.  I don't think David Leaf has a very favorable opinion of Marilyn.  She does not come off very well in "Beach Boys and the California Myth."  So, I think Brian has more than just Melinda in his life that is not a fan of Marilyn.  I don't doubt Landy wasn't crazy about her, either.   I think Brian did benefit by having Marilyn in his life.  He might have wound up in a worse place without her.  I also feel the same about Melinda, regardless of what some people write about her.  No matter what she's done that supposedly the public is not privy to, that marriage has worked for Brian.   He could have done worse.

I've met both Melinda and Marilyn.  I have nothing against Melinda.  Marilyn, who I've spent more time around, is awesome.  I just wanted to say that.

The one problem I have with many on this board is this hatred of Melinda Wilson, and this attempt to canonize Marylin.  I have nothing against Marilyn Wilson, but their marriage ended many years ago, and both have gone on with their lives.  I think it's also good that they still have a relationship, and isn't strange that Melinda hasn't put a stop to that, when if you believe all that is said about her she would.  I'm not trying to be an apologist for Melinda, I don't know her, I can only go from what I see, and that is a healthier, both emotionally and physically, Brian.  He has tried and I think in most cases tamed his demons, he tours now, he finished Smile, and he is about to release something that could be very special.  Not everything has been great there has been some gaffs, but if you look at Brian's life since he has been with Melinda, and stop listening to unsubstantiated rumors, you see someone who is in a better place than he ever has been.  I just find it hard to assign people I don't know with labels, Marylin is good, Melinda is evil.  Life is to complicated for that, and the truth usually lies in between.

They did have SO FEW good years together didn't they?

In my above post, I expressed some surprise that Brian and Marilyn divorced. On the other hand, I guess it shouldn't have been a surprise. How many HAPPY years did they have together? I believe it was in late 1964 or early 1965 when Brian first experimented with LSD, and Marilyn said that he was never the same person again. We know about Marilyn's displeasure with Brian's behavior and the "hangers on" in 1966-67. It was shortly after they had their children when Brian started living "like a vampire", sleeping in late and going out at night, hanging out with people like Danny Hutton. And, of course, there was the low point of 1974-75. I don't know the facts, so I won't get into the Debbie Kiel and Rocky Pamplin stuff.

So really, how many happy years of marriage did they have?

On the "...just wasn't made for these times" DVD, Marilyn was very supportive of Brian even though he was with Melinda at the time.  She also spoke pretty harshly about the other members of the band and their contribution to his downfall. 

I'm sure she had some resentment for basicly being left alone to raise two small girls on her own while Brian "checked out", but she obviously cared for and respected him.

As far as the name thing goes, it may be cynical, but she probably kept it for whatever boost it could give her real estate career.  Who could blame her?

I agree with you. I think there's often a tendency to make the former wife into a saint and the second wife into a demon. Hello, Cynthia and Yoko? And, not saying Heather Mills is a great person (I think she's an extreme example), but I'm sure Linda wasn't perfect. This may happen because the first wife is married to the guy during the time he's at his peak, and therefore it seems she's better for him. I don't know. Marilyn has said that Brian should just be allowed to do what he wants. Well, suppose they were still married, and Brian was sitting at home, 300 pounds, doing nothing. Would that be better? I think both the wives have done things to help and harm Brian, and he them. They're all human. All of the women I just mentioned have/had an enormously difficult job, just being married to a rock star.

In general, I think men (oftentimes the main superfans of BW/BB music) find strong women disturbing and off-putting. Melinda is obviously a tough cookie. Marilyn seems like a far softer personality. Guess what? People like her better. But that has nothing to do with which one is/was better (whatever that even means) for Brian.

I think we have to look at where she’s coming from (in case she does blame it entirely on drugs). She was fourteen years old when she met Brian. She was sixteen years old when they got married. She was sixteen or seventeen when he first tried marijuana and LSD, and she felt he was never the same after that. He was also a musician and a genius one at that, and a lot of very talented musicians are very eccentric and very different. So while it’s obvious to us now that Brian was mentally ill back then, it all started with the drugs for her, continued with the drugs and ended with the drugs. Brian was on drugs during (almost) the whole duration of their marriage, and was on drugs when they split up. I don’t think she’s trying to be ignorant about it, I think she just honestly feels that that was when the radical personality-change started. I can also understand why Marilyn feels that Brian should be allowed to do whatever he wants to do, because she has seen him be pushed to the max, and how that affected him. So while it might not be the best thing for him to sit at home all day, I can understand why she feels the way she does.


Well, at least from what has been documented, it does seem like they had a lot of stuff against them from the very beginning. To be honest, I often wonder what would’ve happened in terms of Brian and Marilyn’s marriage, if Brian had continued the Landy therapy in the late 1970s. Of course it’s impossible to say and it’s pure speculation, but if we pretend that Landy had… well, not been a nutcase, and Brian had gotten off the drugs, then I wonder if they could’ve made the marriage work. Because it seems like the drugs were the biggest problem for Marilyn – not Brian’s mental illness (which of course was connected, but I think, had she known, that they could’ve made it work). Again, it’s just speculation. Because they did stay together for a long time (considering how Brian, according to Marilyn, changed completely in 1965 after his first marijuana experience), and so I would think there was something there.

I can only speak for myself personally, but for me, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she is Brian’s second wife. I have a problem with the fact that in every interview Brian does (where she is included), she mentions how she gives him the emotional security he never had. It just seems like she’s very self-promoting, much like Landy was. Now, I’m not comparing the two, but it seems like they are/were both very eager to take credit for whatever progress Brian has made, and that just doesn’t seem very humble to me, nor does it seem very likable. I can only speak for myself, but I just have a problem with the way she says things, and I wish she would stay more in the background. I’m just sick of hearing about how much she gives him, and how much their kids give him, and how he never had that before, and while Brian might say “My wife” when asked what keeps him going, or what made him finish SMiLE, I would rather hear it FROM HIM, than from her.

Hahaha, oh god, I love how completely random that ends up sounding because he says that just as the German narrator stops talking (and you can actually hear what he's saying). That's priceless. On a different note, my heart hurts so much when I see interviews with Brian from that time-period. The Diane Sawyer interview is especially heartbreaking to me.

Certainly one reason Marilyn kept the Wilson name is she is the mother of two daughters named Wilson - it's not uncommon for divorced women to keep their married name so it is the same as the children's.  Less confusion in school, etc.

I don't know Marilyn but I have met Melinda and was very imrpessed with how warm, cordial, and nice she was.  I'm sure she is a little self-serving with promoting what she has done for Brian - but it seems to be true, so why shouldn't she get the credit?  It can't be easy living with Brian and dealing with his demons on a daily basis.  She's done an amazing job of keeping him on an even keel, getting him treatment, and protecting his legacy - and getting him out in public and on stage (who would ever have thought that would happen?) promoting his music, finishing Smile and now TLOS.  It's pretty remarkable when you consider the state he was in before.

I do understand about Marilyn and where she's coming from, but on the other hand, he has since been diagnosed with mental illness, and even though he seemed to have changed after taking drugs, what he was really trying to do was to medicate his psychological problems. Indications are that even if he hadn't taken drugs, his mental issues would have escalated, and his behavior still would have changed. Someone would have had to address those problems eventually. Still, we don't know how much the drugs exacerbated the mental illness and vice-versa.

In terms of Melinda, I don't see that she's self-serving at all. She doesn't do very many interviews, and when she does, there seems to be good reason. Brian isn't exactly the best spokesperson for his situation all the time. Sometimes I'm sure journalists are grateful to get to talk to her so she can explain what's going on. In her answers to questions, her focus is on Brian. When she says things like, "Brian has emotional security now," that's a very reasonable answer to the question, "What do you think has caused Brian to become more productive?" I don't know that she's necessarily comparing herself to Marilyn, but maybe she's referring to the larger situation-- a supportive family armed with knowledge and backed by UCLA doctors, a supportive band, supportive friends who presumably aren't taking drugs and can be there for Brian when he needs them... versus the complications of the Beach Boys, the lack of knowledge about what was going on with Brian and how to help him, and friends (some of them) who were on drugs and not exactly reliable for support. Brian's whole environment now may be more conducive to his emotional health, and based on his behavior much of the time, it is.

I agree with the poster who said that strong women catch a lot of flack.

I guess what I just wonder is why anyone has to take credit for where Brian is today? Brian is definitely in a better state today, yes, and I think that's wonderful and I am happy for him, but I just feel that Melinda should let that speak for itself, and that that would be more tactful. But that's just me.


I completely understand what you're saying, and I completely agree that what happened wasn't due to the drugs. I guess what I was just trying to say was that I could understand why she would feel that way, as her world changed when he started using drugs, and while evidence shows that he would've gone down that path anyway, her reality was that it became obvious after the drugs. That's what I meant :)

As for Melinda, I guess I just feel that... I don't know, that by saying that he has emotional security now, you (not you, of course) imply that he didn't before, and I don't think that's completely true. Brian was completely out of control before, and I don't think Melinda would've helped back then necessarily. If Brian had been properly diagnosed back then, had been given the right medication, had been off-drugs, etc, then I think Marilyn and the girls would've been as much of a stable environment as Melinda and the kids. Of course we will never know, but that's just the way I see it. While I'm sure it's hard for Melinda to be married to Brian (it is without a doubt), she has the advantage of having a sober, properly-medicated husband. She also, like you said, has a team of doctors, and a good support-system. Marilyn didn't. So I do feel like Melinda has the advantage. Melinda was also a 48 year old woman when she married Brian, and they had been dating for years. Marilyn was 16 years old, a kid, who felt secure in marrying the person Brian was in 1964, and was married to a completely different Brian by 1965. I'm sure that Marilyn gave and could've given him emotional security (I'm not saying that you say she couldn't).

But I completely understand what you're saying, and I respect your opinion. I just feel differently about Melinda, I suppose :P AND I just want to add that I only have the utmost respect and admiration for strong women, so that has nothing to do with my feelings about Melinda at all - I just don't like her.

That's one thing I really like about Marilyn.  She knew Brian before and after "the drugs."  She knew the score.

I take it that Melinda's stance--on the other hand--is the baby-boomer favorite "our parents made us this way."   ::)

We all get dealt different hands.  Marilyn's strength in this regard allowed Brian to do things his way-and pay the price-his way.  That's all you CAN do.  And Brian ultimately had to have known, at the very least that he was still driving his own car.  Had Melinda been his wife in the 70s, I wonder what would have happened.

 :3d

 Had Melinda been his wife in the 70s, I wonder what would have happened.

 :3d
[/quote]

He would be driving the car Melinda sold him. :police:

Another thing, though, is that Melinda met Brian when he was under Landy's care (if I'm not mistaken), so her first impression was, "Okay, this is a guy who needs someone to watch over him and control him." When Marilyn met Brian, he was an intelligent adult and she was just a teen. Marilyn expected Brian to take care of her, not the other way around.

Honestly I don't think any of us want to not like Melinda. It's just that we have seen, or heard enough to make us wary. Nobody is speaking against her without reason. To be objective in all this, I doubt there is anyone here who doesn't like her because she is a strong woman.

Amen. She's the person he needs now at this point in his life. That's to Brian's credit too, that he has kept on truckin' finding what he needs. And to be selfish, Melinda has pushed Brian to feed us with the junk our junkie veins sorely need!  I still can't believe we a new album coming in a few weeks!  WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!

Marilyn was strong too...to let him go his nutter way that he went -- and to have stuck with him when he was such a useless turd.  And hey, in the 70s...Brian was a useless sack!   :smokin

Obviously, your question is speculation; so is my answer....

I think we might've had something, closer to the "Brian Is Back" goal that was expected, or at least hoped for. There would not have been a Dr. Landy. There would not have been "bodyguards" such as Rocky and Stan. And, Brian's therapy would not have taken place in his house, but probably in a hospital (I hate to use the word institution).

I'm giving Melinda the benefit of the doubt. I don't think she likes bullsh--. And she would not have stood by and watch all that craziness happen. I can see her taking a hold of the situation, and making a more logical/accurate/correct/medically sound decision in treating Brian. And that's not a knock at Marilyn.

Remember that Brian has been talking about his lack of sex since the "Brian is Back" RS interview of 1976. He said then that it was a yoga technique. In typical BW fashion, he informed "It's been a couple months now I haven't had any sex.  That's just a personal answer."

Well I'm glad you liked my post but I am not sure you understood what I was getting at. I am not a fan of Melinda's by any means personally. All I was pointing out was that those on here who don't care for her are not being petty, we have our reasons that I feel are valid. I respect everyone on here and their views, but as happy as I am about LOS, I also am unhappy that he seems to be put before the public at tiems when he seems to detest it. The Kennedy Honors last year made him look very ill. He did not show normal reactions and did not even seem to be fully aware of what was going on. I felt for him. That combined with the sitting down on stage, and Jardine's quick departure afterwards told me this is not an ideal situation for him. I don't know what is, but something is off. Were any of the non LOS sun tours since Smile really helpful to him?

Sheriff
Melinda wouldn't have known any more medical facts then Marilyn at the time. We just didn't understand mental illness like we do now. Also Marilyn is dead right that drugs did hurt Brian and play a role in his decline. No doubt he would have had some degree of trouble, but I wonder if his illness would have gotten as bad without cocaine, LSD, and whatever the heck Landy gave him. Brian apparently was in the hospital, did see other doctors. Nothing was working. Landy was a last resort, and Stan and Rocky were there because even then Brian no longer could look after himself anymore. It was a desperate situation.  We had neither the proper facilities or medication then.

On one side they call him a genius, on the other side they're surprised he can drive a car alone. Give the man some credit!
Brian tours because he wants to tour. Yes, he may not enjoy being on stage every time, because of all the well known reasons, but all in all, I think he enjoys the experience of having done it again, of being able to do it, of sharing with people, etc.
He tolerated Landy's methods, because they helped him. Mind-controlled for 10 years? Good press, but use your brain.
He loved his first wife, he loves his second wife.
Would be interesting to know what Marilyn has to say about Melinda & Brian today, not 14 years ago when "Wasn't Made For These Times" was filmed. M1 is not isolated from Brian's current life, even I as non-insider standard fan know that. She attended a couple of Brian concerts, Smile DVD taping I think, Hawthorne monument etc.
I personally would like to hear a solid explanation what exactly some people's problem with Melinda is? I thank her & Brian for all they gave us fans in the last 10+ years.
And just in case Brian would read the boards once in a while, and why is this so impossible, he probably leaves the PC afterwards with about 10 daggers in his chest for all the insulting comments regarding his wife and himself.
Ok, call me a Blueboarder now.

I don't mind Melinda at all.

I have a sneaky suspiscion that you won't last here very long.  8)

Yes, for all people have said about Melinda, they haven't really said anything. I keep hearing how people don't like her, how she's "not what she seems," how she controls Brian, etc. Yet, no one has any solid evidence or examples to back up their opinion. It all seems to be based on speculation. Oh, he sat down on stage. He didn't look well at the Kennedy Center. He claims that he doesn't have sex. Well, you know, he's done odd things for years. He's mentally ill. He's eccentric. Melinda really didn't change him into this. He was like this before he met her. Some people claim they have "inside information," but yet I've never heard anything specific. It's always just, "I've heard enough to make me believe it." Well, what have you heard? I mean, even if someone did have a story, it would still be unproven gossip, as far as I'm concerned.

Supposedly Brian's band members are among the insiders. They can't stand Melinda and they love Brian. Well, if that's true, and they think Brian is being forced into doing what he's doing, then why are they willing players in this "charade"?

Melinda may not be as warm as Marilyn. She may not even be very likeable. But hey, I know people who aren't likeable, and that doesn't make them evil and doesn't mean they don't make someone else happy and don't deserve happiness themselves. Guess we'll have to wait for Daria Wilson to grow up and write "Mommy Dearest."

Seeing Brian today is enough to make me doubt the PR he puts out. I don't want to hurt Brian or anyone else, and so I do keep private what I am told in private. The answers are out there for anyone who wants to be fair about this. I have respect for how the pro Melinda camp feels, but don't belittle the conclusions others have made. Read the 1997 Uncut interview and all will be revealed more or less.

I'm not belittling your conclusions. I'm just looking for evidence to support them. I'm not sure I'm ready to trust the interpretations of a music journalist as evidence. I've seen Paul McCartney, Tori Amos, Michael Stipe, Noel Gallagher, and many others presented as saints and devils, depending on the angle taken by the journalist. I will also say that in a recent interview, Taylor Mills went out of her way to say, "I love Melinda, she's the best." I'm not taking that as evidence of who Melinda really is either, but I'm throwing it out there. But anyway, I don't have access to the 1997 Uncut interview. Do you have a link?

My recollection of the Uncut piece that it was a complete, one-sided hack job.   

The only Melinda I know is the one presented by journalists, PR people and fans. Therefore I don't know Melinda. I assume the best of her. She's probably not much different than any of us (except wealthier and married to a great pop songwriter).

A copy as far as I know hasn't been put online. I guess trying to find it on ebay is your best bet. It isn't the end all to end all article, but it is the only place you will hear publically what a number of people have told me privately. I don't know her, but again I have heard enough to give me doubts. Is that unfair? One last comment about the article, It's not a tabloid piece by any means though it is trying to dig up what goes on behind the scenes.  Basically it asks some strong questions as to why the Paley demos wee jettisoned in favor of Joe Thomas, Stars and Stripes etc.  If you want more evidence simply ask people their honest opinion of her privately.

You know, this is one of the things that annoys me about fandom.

People just don't say what they mean. Who are we protecting? Melinda is a public figure, and her marriage to Brian is certainly a matter for public record. So dish the dirt if you got it. Inquiring minds want to know, and having it out in the open is healthy! It's better than this innuendo that has surrounded Melinda for at least 10 years (back when Carnie is alleged to have made certain comments about her stepmother).

Here's some knocks against Melinda that I recall from the past decade. A greatest hits, if you will. I don't agree with them, but let's have them out in the open. Just for fun. Why not?

1.) Melinda didn't know much about the BBs when she met Brian. We know more about them than she does!

2.) She was a car saleswoman. We all know about them.

3.) Brian at one point wanted a separation from her (this was a couple of years after they married) and she cried. This inspired the song "Cry" on the Imagination album. What kind of devil would cry in front of Brian Wilson?

4.) She manipulated Brian by having them adopt three new children, thus replacing Carnie and Wendy in his thoughts.

5.) Carnie supposedly called her "Melinda" at one point. That obviously has implications of control over Brian. Melinda was also Brian's conservator for several years after their marriage. She's now been referred to as his manager. She has not, so far, requested songwriting credits.

6.) She forced Brian to make an adult contemporary record with Joe Thomas, thus creating an album's worth of music that she liked, not him.

7.) She wanted tracks on the "Live at the Roxy" album double-tracked, thus showing her ignorance of live recordings.

8.) The label name on recent BW recordings has been BriMel -- somewhat less subtle than Brains and Genius.

9.) She interfered with the mix of Pet Sounds live, bringing Brian's voice to the front and smothering the backing vocals and instrumentation. (The DVD does have a substantially different, fuller mix.)

10.) She forced Brian to tour with Pet Sounds.
11.) She forced Brian to tour with Smile.
12.) She's forced Brian to tour the rest of the time.
13.) She forced Brian to record GIOMH

14.) She fired (okay, oversaw the departures of) two longtime band members recently, as well as some touring crew members.

15.) She has impersonated Brian on his message board, deceiving fans.

16.) She has taken too much credit for Brian's musical and personal recovery.

17.) She has unfairly criticized Brian's first wife. And we all know what a saint Marilyn was (or at least Rocky Pamplin knows).

And that gets us back to where this thread started. Got anything to add? Go ahead! Let's flush 'er out! There's nothing too racy or scurrilous!

Let's change everything after the comma to "thus showing she had a thorough understanding of typical rock or pop "live" recordings"

Whoops. I meant to say "vocal tracks" double tracked -- as in, Brian's leads.

Again, not saying I agree with the criticism. This was just the scuttlebutt at the time.

No, even saying "vocal tracks" wouldn't change my post. "Live" albums have a long history of being far less than live on most fronts. It wouldn't be above standard practice to double vocals.

Melinda seems very overbearing with Brian, and cares a little to much what people think.

And anytime I see youtube footage of Brian on stage I always wonder, does he want to be there?..and is Melinda making him smile like that just to please us?

So yeah I am sceptical of her.

She seems very PR savvy.

Brian could have married some dippy younger gal who would have cleaned out his money.  He did not.  Melinda has probably spent/wasted/lost more money in the name of Brian's career than she's spent on herself.  She doesn't exactly dress up in expensive clothes most of the time.  She does come off a bit odd sometimes, but I think you'd have to be to put up with Brian, who is odd himself.  She's a pet hoarder, or is an enabler of pet hoarding (just to add to the list of Melinda's transgressions).  She "makes" Brian tour, "makes" him record albums, etc.  But the alternative is Brian not doing much, which might be a good thing, or might not be a good thing.  It's a tough call.  I think Brian will always surround himself with at least a slightly odd world.  He lived a weird life when Marilyn and his first daughters were around, probably far weirder than his life with Melinda.  He lived a weird life with Landy.  He lived a weird life between Landy and Melinda, and the periods of his life before when he was neither with Marilyn nor Landy.  You should check out the Roky Erickson documentary if you want to see what mentally ill drug addicts can get up to when left to their own devices, or when family members are forced to do the best they can to deal with such a person.  People with mental and emotional problems tend to make the people around them bend to fit into their odd universe as much as any person can attempt to "control' the person with the problems.  It's a thankless job.  If I don't like what Brian does artistically under Melinda's "watch," I can criticize both of them for their degrees of involvment in making something I don't like.  But it's a tough call to criticize how they choose to live their life together.

I am going to make one last statement about this. Amy B. asked about confidential information and I answered her politely and she was polite back. Still I feel resentment that I did address her issue and I don't like it. If any one of you tells me something in confidence I will not repeat what I have been told. Truthfully it's not for Melinda's sake or even Brian's sake, it's because I value the trust people have in me. If it pisses a few of you off so be it, but I have never been anything less then respectful of anyone here and I think I deserve the same.

I'm sorry if this comes off as a discourse...but I have some comment on these issues:

You know I'm only occasionally completely on one side of an issue in the BB land, and Melinda isn't an exception. She's done a multitude of both good and bad things that I can't really say I dislike her, but nor can I say I'm ga-ga over her. She's done a good job at getting Brian active-two sides of the coin on that issue, when she came in with Brian around 1994, he wasn't too terribly off center:

he had a strong collaborator (Andy Paley) who was producing treasure troves of decent-good-great material in short time spans (AFAIK most of the Paley sessions were in November 1995), his voice was a bit nasal in places but I would say it's best since it's sporadic great moments in the 80s, but really it's strongest since 1973. AFAIK, she had a major role in sacking the great collaborator and Brian's voice declined in quality soon after (which I'm not saying is her fault-he started smoking after Landy and Kevin Leslie left). His backing tracks went from vivid to blah, as witnessed on 70% of Imagination ("Cry," "She Said..." and "Happy Days" being the only ones I'm confident to say I like, whereas almost everything on the Paley Sessions has redeeming moments, while some are a bit bare...I still like them).

He was also horribly overweight and on a bevy of perscriptions supplied by UCLA (AFAIK). She got him trimmer and through a doctor put him on a better regimen of drugs. After Imagination, he started touring and got mainly good reviews. He put Pet Sounds on the stage for the first time, Van Dyke came in to do the overture and toured with a full orchestra and the response was unanimous: masterpiece. Some vocals weren't spot-on, but Brian was performing his masterpiece. Somehow, someway he, Darian and Parks finished SMiLE, and the result was not only an acclaimed stage show but a minor hit, Grammy award winning album.

On the downside, GIOMH not only was a flop but got a round of mixed to terrible reviews. Brian's lead vocals on half of the cuts aren't were they should be at all. Just horrible BVs on many of the tracks. While some things are positive, standout tracks for the proverbial BW compilation, I still say the majority (about 65% of it) stinks. Starting in 2005, the much hated (by the serious Brianistas) Greatest Hits tours have begun. These are undemanding setlist wise, but do on occasion get good reviews for impassioned Brian vocals and performances. On occasion.

But I'm still positive that Brian's being well handled, the 2008 interviews I've seen with him show him confident and TLOS has great material and a decently confident Brian to work with. It might just be his masterpiece of the post-77 Brian years.

Also, there has always been a dark nature to Brian's life, something unsettling. Whether it's the bad decisions or ill-fated bullyings of Murry, Mike Love, drugs, Manson, mental illness, the bad sale of albums, bedroom scenes, ill-fated television appearances, Landy appearing, Landy leaving, drugs, overweight, near death due to a terrible physical state, drugs, Landy again, perscription drugs, Warner Brothers under-promoting his first album, "Kokomo" stealing his thunder, "Sweet Insanity" getting rejected, Landy leaving, Melinda's bad decisions.......there's has never been a time when there hasn't been something remotely unsettling or ill-fated in his live. Never, and there will never be, while I blame other people, the waters are never still with Brian.

I agree with all of this. What is Melinda getting out of this if it's all a sham? She's certainly not an attention seeker. Really, compared to what she could be doing, she's actually very reserved about being in the spotlight. They don't make money off the tours either, so it can't be that.  We have no idea what it's like to be living with a mentally ill drug addict (yes, once an addict, always an addict, right?) Her claim is that she's in love with his personality, but that he has good days and bad days and must be monitored. And that sounds plausible to me. It also sounds plausible that she'd keep him busy. Based on his general demeanor now versus 15 years ago, I'd say she's making the right call. Okay, so she makes some bad management decisions, but you know what? She also makes some good ones. Whoever brought Brian together with his band deserves some praise. That was a brilliant move. Whoever convinced him to tour Pet Sounds, same thing. If it wasn't for her, we probably wouldn't have BWPS either, or maybe TLOS. And where has all this work left Brian? In a downward spiral? No. Willing to acknowledge that he's a genius? Yes. Taking pride in his work? Yes. Writing new music that he's proud of (according to Scott Bennett)? Yes.

So again, I can only take it at face value.
I respect MBE's wish not to reveal anything someone told him in confidence, but if that's the case, maybe it's not a good idea to throw hints around either. Who is it going to help? If there's some truth to be revealed, I'm sure it will be someday.

Everyone wonders if he wants to be there, including, I'm sure, Melinda. I'm sure it varies from night to night. As far as making him smile, Melinda isn't even always there at the concerts. She was in LA when he did his last round of shows. And Marilyn used to get him to smile back in the 60s.

PR savvy? A manager? Heavens, no!   ::)

I agree with Mike on this position, and understand what he's feeling. When someone tells you information in confidence, it's proper and a sign of good character to not spread it around too much. (We've all had that experience in life where someone hasn't done that, and you hear about it, and it stings.) So everyone should keep that in mind.

I don't mean to personally attack anyone with the list of Melinda charges. My point is simply that Brian and Melinda are public people -- we can't have it both ways. We can't say they have private lives and then mutter about them behind their backs. Heaven knows I've done it on occasion.

I'd just as soon we say what we know -- the good and the bad, and throw it out there. I honestly think TdHabib's post is one of the best I've ever read on the Melinda question. There is no question she is, as I stated earlier, a tough cookie. There is also no question that she is not in awe of Brian as a man (although she obviously respects him as a creator). This means she's tough on him at times. I some folks near him -- and a few of those people swing into our orbits -- take a really dim view of that.

Regardless, these will all be academic questions soon enough. Brian probably won't tour much past his mid-70s, if he makes it to that point. Although BB King is past 80 and still out there, so who knows.

If Melinda were so PR savvy, she wouldn't be hated by so many fans.

Did anybody know that Joe Thomas sued Melinda for over five million dollars because she allegedly "schemed and manipulated both Brian and Joe, and has misused the joint venture in order to secure the full benefit of Brian's star-status for herself." I have no idea how the lawsuit turned out.

Also, it's hard to believe, but Melinda has been married to Brian almost longer than Marilyn.

Sheriff -- I had totally forgotten that, but you are absolutely right! I think they counter-sued him, too. I wonder if we can get the text of that lawsuit anywhere.

Anyway, I will add that to Melinda's list of crimes, along with the pet hoarding thing. Perhaps it should be a new thread.

I'm glad my position is understood. I honestly wouldn't have made a statement about anything but I did want to answer Amy B.'s question.

Very well put.  Let me also add the following...

I can't speak for anybody else, bust just because someone knows something doesn't mean that they are happy with what they know.I personally don't get any thrills from it, that's for damn sure.

Understood, but sometimes it is very hard not to when someone has the wrong idea and you have witnessed things that prove otherwise.  But really, the truth being revealed someday isn't that important to me, because honestly it won't really change anything. It is what it is. As much as we want Brian to be "normal"- whatever the hell that means, as normalcy is subjective- it's not going to happen.  What IS important to me is that we have a lifetime's worth of great music, and in the end, that's all that really matters.

Ok, this thread failed to change my opition of Melinda yet, just the usual 'I know something you don't know' answers. I'm familiar with her management decisions, but that's her job and say nothing about her relationship with Brian.
Don Was, Andy Paley, Sean O'Hagan, Joe Thomas... People should get the facts right before the criticize Melinda.

Another thread possibility: Let's imagine the worst things that Melinda could be up to Re: Brian.

I know, I know. Perhaps she's getting ready to kill him and sell his organs on the black market!

Is it possible that Melinda has learned from her mistakes and changed over time?  A lot of the criticism started during the Joe Thomas era, when she had Brian and herself move to a Chicago suburb (Brian in the Midwest?!) and had Joe call the shots musically.  She then sued Joe to get rid of him, and Joe sued back (Joe's suit was thrown out of court, BTW).  While some have accused her of "getting rid of" Andy Paley, he did later appear on tour with Brian at times, and some of that material also showed up on GIOMH.  While Brian has been doing oldies tours, he also has done TLOS and finished Smile.  So, it's a mixed bag, and maybe Melinda has been on a learning curve. 

I just want to add something regarding the Andy Paley material. It's a complicated story during a complicated time in BB history. Melinda & Brian stood behind this material, we know that Carl & Mike didn't like it. It was a project for the Beach Boys, not Brian Solo and was still in the pipeline after Stars & Stripes was released. And how did Joe Thomas enter the scene? As I understand through Mike Love. How? Brian's camp wanted to record a solo cover of "The Warmth Of The Sun" with guest vocalist Willie Nelson. Mike heard about it and the idea of the new BB album Stars & Stripes was born. Mike proposed Thomas for this (please correct me if I'm wrong, that's what I read). So, funny enough, it's the opposite of what people think, you can almost say Stars & Stripes started as solo project and the Paley material was BB.

To Brian's stage presence: Isn't it interesting how he comes to life when performing new material? Smile, and now TLOS? The Smile shows are without a doubt the best of Brian's live career, who would have thought that 10 years ago? The first half of the Smile shows so-so, but you could read it in many reviews, he was a different man for the Smile part. Brian the musician always looked forward and I think performing Oldies is probably a very boring experience for him sometimes, not always of course.

I think Carl was the problem not Mike. From what I understand Mike and Brian wrote the Baywatch Nights thing and Carl didn't like that.  Peter's book has Mike talking about the sessions. The country album was Mike's idea (which I think was terrible fwiw). Brian agreed to do it when Willie was willing to appear. Thomas may have been brought in by Mike, but from what I remember Melinda became friends with Joe's wife and then they moved to St. Charles.

Ok, so we can put the 'Melinda boycotted Paley in favor of Thomas' rumor and all this stuff to rest, a simple look at the chronology of events shows a different story. After the Paley & Don Was back to 60's & back to basic sound a more contemporary approach for a solo record wasn't even a bad idea IMO.

Why did they move? Why did she make a public comment against the Paley stuff? I am not letting her off the hook by saying that she didn't meet Joe first.

I think most of us would agree that the TLOS songs are among the best Brian has written since the 1980s... And, if I remember correctly, he did everything during a single week, just when Melinda was away.

Am I the only one to think that it's very strange?  :-X (Maybe Brian didn't want Melinda to be aware of TLOS...?)

Didn't know that. What did she say and when?



Oh, a week without wife can be very inspiring, no doubt about that.
This just shows that Brian writes when he wants and wasn't forced.

But really, one week without Melinda's 24 hour control, is that possible? I guess David Leaf was there to make sure Brian doesn't call any ex bandmates. :P

As Scott explained it, Brian got bored in Melinda's absence and called him (Scott) to ask him to work on some music. (which in itself implies that Brian's not being forced to do everything)
As for Brian not wanting Melinda to be aware... why, then, would she "allow" the music to be reheased and premiered in London? And recorded? Brian says his creativity comes in spurts, as is the case with many people. And it makes sense. The "Love You" songs came after a long dry spell, for example, didn't they?

I think the story of the genesis of TLOS is more complex than that. Remember, it was announced quite early in the year, so Brian was up against a deadline, and it's no secret that large parts of it have been back-engineered from the 2006 summer Wilson/Bennett sessions (and of course there are melodies that go back even further), which indicates to me that maybe there was a problem early on and Brian dipped into the stockpile once more. Also, while Brian was touring Europe summer 2007, the reports we were getting of the piece changed on an almost daily basis - remember Brian stating in an interview it was going to be based on The Little Prince ?  I'm willing to bet quite strongly that the original conception, and what we actually got (which was just great, btw - "Mexican Girl" excepted) differ vastly in both theme and execution. As with much BB/BW items, there's a great story hiding somewhere.  Here's my scenario:

Brian is comissioned to write a piece for the RFH...
He either writes something that isn't considered adequate, or can't come up with anything at all...
Scotty is asked to help him out, and they both turn back to the previous summer's sessions, and also to Brian's own past...
While Brian is touring Europe, Scotty drafts Darian in to help him sequence the piece (and I can't help but believe that having Brian some 5000 miles away was a definite blessing in this regard...)
The piece is finally completed and rehearsed, but not before Brian wants to add another song at the last minute.

Of course, this is just my semi-informed guesswork  ::) but when it can result in something a truly outstanding as "Midnight's Another Day", who cares ?

Well, okay. That still exonerates Melinda from the notion that somehow Brian had to sneak around behind her back to get it done. Which doesn't make sense, in this case, because it's done and there's a U.S. TLOS tour planned with her blessing.

I care. I know I'm not supposed to, as long as the final product is good, but I do. I guess I'm too hung up on the honesty factor, the honesty in the the creation of the music. But that's my problem.

Just a quick comment on Brian "sneaking around" when Melinda was away, or hurrying to create something in her absence. That's a little naive, don't you think? I'm not comparing her to Landy (am I?), but I have a feeling that when Melinda is away - for any period of time - she is in constant contact with Brian, or makes sure somebody that she trusts is.

Something I forgot to add - this is the first I've ever heard of Brian 'finishing' TLOS in Melinda's absence. Anyone else here recall seeing anything like that ?

Nope. And I'm very strongly doubting "did everything in a single week" as well. Worked on it a lot, sure. But come on. And he did all the vocals for Orange Crate Art in a single day. And Captain Beefheart composed Trout Mask Replica in 8 hours and took 2 years to teach it to his band, too...

Don't forget the rock and roll album Brian's producing for  the tooth fairy  with Santa Claus.

For what it's worth, Brian's essay in the TLOS tour booklet confirm's Andrew's account. Who knows if Brian really wrote it, but it's pretty transparent about the process.

"When I got the call from Royal Festival Hall to create a new piece for their re-opening I was thrilled, because Pet Sounds and Smile had debuted there with so much love and appreciation from my British fans.

"At that time, I was deep in the middle of a real creative trip. Scott Bennett and I had been collaborating "All Summer Long." I was stuck on an old spiritual called "That Lucky Old Sun" and decided that it was a good tune to thread throughout this new piece.

"I asked my friend Van Dyke Parks to write some narratives about life in Los Angeles. Then I asked Scotty to go back and incorporate the lyrics he had written for the songs we had been working on in to 'That Lucky Old Sun.' Once he had finished, we brought in the musical secretary, Darian Sahanaja to help us glue together what we had created."

I swear on my father's grave I never saw that before.  :o  Hot damn !

Your psychic gifts are amazing. Quick, what am I going to do today?

I knew the 20 bucks I blew on that would be good for something!

Plus, it has a lot of cartoons drawn by Scott in it. As well as Van Dyke's texts.

Claymcc listed the quote I think number 7. I do remember hearing it back around 1998. One of the Mojo or Uncut articles I think.

Coupla problems with this - one, Pet Sounds debuted 7/7/2000 in Easton PA, not 1/27/04 in London (which wasn't even the first European performance)... and the chronology of TLOS as presented here is, from what I've been told, skewed: once again, VDP came late to the project.

Ok, thanks. Don't have access to these 10 year old articles, would love to read them. I stay with the facts I know, and those include that they tried the Paley material with the Beach Boys and released a couple of these tracks solo instead between 1995 and 2004, I count seven.



Paul Mertens put the icing on the cake by penning the arrangements for the Stockholm Strings and Horns. We had a blast putting this together. I hope that when you hear it, my incredible band and I will bring a little Southern California sunshine your way. - Brian Wilson

There is a rock and roll article site, rock's back pages. I think that's the name anyway. They have a lot of Beach Boys stuff and it's only like 5 dollars a month there. Maybe they have something you would like. Any major article on Brian from 1996-98 probably mentions something about it.

Thanks for the tipp! A lot of interesting articles there, but 36 dollars for a six month subscription...

www.rocksbackpages.com

Andrew: The essay is, to say the least, odd. Some of the grammar in there about who was contributing lyrics to what is confused to the point of being obfuscatory. On the other hand, if it were ghost-written by Leaf, let's say, surely he would know that PS had debuted earlier and fudge that a bit more.

Anyway, a curious piece, but one that certainly lays out the broad lines that you suggest and that have been rumored.

And let's face it -- the concept of TLOS as presented is pretty obvious. You have Brian singing a song about the Lucky old Sun. You have a bunch of songs that includes tunes about the night (MAD), the morning (Morning Beat and Oxygen to the Brain) as well as diverse LA subjects like the environment and Mexican girls. How much of a stretch is it thread TLOS through the piece and make it about a day in the life of LA? Not very -- which is one of the reasons it works so well, IMO. Brian may not have sequenced it or conceived of the songs as being part of a suite, but they just have a natural unity of subject and style.

The Uncut piece was published around June-ish 1998, at the same time Mojo had an issue with a cover of Brian with Peter Buck on it.
It was just before Imagination came out and I was excited - though a little dismayed after reading the article. If I can find it, I will scan it in and stick it up.

Thanks Matt, I know I am not alone and saying that would be greatly appreciated.

Not to change the subject(to much  ;D), but I have my own "Did Brian really say this?" question. Here's an interesting quote I found. My question is, when and where did he say this? What did the other members of the beach boys think of it?

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me. So. I take the lesser of two evils; I'll work on myown, solo, before I work with a bunch of guys that don't give a sh*t about me...they just spit at me and kick me, no respect at all."

That came sometime in the 90s, I believe.

I remember another one from the 90s where Brian actually called Carl an asshole. Never thought anyone would stoop THAT low.

Yeah I think around 1995 he was being pretty scathing to the Beach Boys in some interviews.

What if Carl was being an asshole and deserved it? I know we're supposed to stick to the stereotypes, and therefore Carl was angelic in voice and demeanor, but hey, everyone has bad days. Sometimes--and you won't believe this--even I can be an asshole.

Well, Carl was the one who scuttled the Paley sessions. So I assume that Brian was peeved about that.

I don't find that hard to believe at all. 8)

Glad to see the joke wasn't too subtle.

I always find it interesting that people who see little but good in Brian are scathingly called "Brianistas," but people who call Carl an angel are just stating the truth.
Although I will say that it's not very gracious to call people names in public either way.

Well, Brian has a lot more publicly known flaws than Carl...

Carl isn't here to defend himself and except for 1977-78 handled himself quite well. It just seems that he wasn't the type to intentionally hurt anyone.

I'm sure she's proud of her relationship with the "Wilsons", plus her daughers both are Wilsons.  I think once some women have children they're more reluctant to go back to their maiden names or a new married name if their children have their other last name... so still calling herself Wilson kind of ties her to her children. 

From what I've seen this is a very lovely woman, the Wilson family is lucky to have her!

I honestly don't have any problems at all with Melinda.  She certainly has her faults as we all do, but we don't know the first thing about her private life with Brian, it's incredibly presumptious to pretend that we do. 

Yeah, but they ARE brothers.  My opinion of it is two brothers can fight as loudly viciously and publicly as they want because in the end everybody knows that they still love each other.  If my brother called me an asshole I wouldn't think twice about it and certainly wouldn't think he had made some low blow or whatever.  Again, we've got to remember that Brian literally is mentally ill.  You can't take everything he says in a rational logical way, because he's not always a rational or logical guy, which pretty much defines mental illness in the first place. 

VOX magazine, 1995. One of the craziest interviews (and pictures) BW has ever done. I have a pdf of that  one and others of those years: Pulse, Mojo w/ Peter Buck. And some stuff from Rock's Backpages. PMme if you want it.