MiC up for order on Amazon, August release

[Matt Bielewicz]

...oh, and is that great extra news about some of the tracks, or what? Do It Again, We're Together Again, etc etc.

See, this is what I meant, yesterday. Bitching about a tracklist at this stage is stupid. A list of names doesn't tell you anything. We have to hear the set — the mixes, the audio  — before we can really criticise it.

And some of those apparently questionable-looking track choices that have so exercised the minds of some here... they might, in some cases, be the most revelatory new mixes. We just don't know yet.

I am so up for hearing We're Together Again. I heard a scratchy copy of an incomplete mix years ago that had loads of instruments on it that weren't on the twofer bonus track, and thought it sounded potentially awesome. The mix I heard was awful (in fact I think it wasn't a mix at all, just someone playing back part of an unbalanced multi or mono mix with all the faders at unity) and it made the track sound a mess, and I found myself wishing that someone could find the original multitrack and mix it again.

Now, perhaps, they have...

And a PIANO DEMO of Be With Me...? True stereo Do It Again? Hell, I'm even excited to hear the live tracks.

I said when I first saw the listing 'that will do nicely'. It's better than that, now.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Ponghits post from his meeting with Alan Boyd in March last year:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll try to summarize my BB-related experiences from my trip to LA last week:

Mr. Boyd had messaged me about the Al Jardine record release show at The Roxy on Tuesday night, so I first met Alan there, and was immediately struck by what a sweet, modest, and down-to-earth guy he is. I was with a friend of Alan's who also introduced me to Adam Marsland, Nelson Bragg, Domenic Priore, Mark London, and others.

Alan arranged for us to visit his house on Thursday evening, around 7pm. On the way, we stopped for Indian takeout for dinner. Alan has a cool pad, a cool cat — and there's a gecko living in his house! (Its surface looks like it's encrusted in coarse salt with pepper added.) We chatted while we ate, talked about our mutual interests and mutual friends. I gave him a stack of CDs I had brought for him, and he returned the favor (commercial releases, not CD-Rs).

My memory for details is inconsistent, partly due to flu medications, jet-lag, and lack o' sleep for 2 weeks (not sure I was a great conversationalist), but here are some tidbits I remember:

• Regarding the recently-uncovered GV footage — Alan arranged for it to be acquired when it was discovered — there are 2 silent reels — includes Dennis singing lead.

• Despite the seemingly complete/exhaustive nature of TSS, Alan believes a lot of master tapes have disappeared from the vaults over the years.

• Good news — the band currently seems to be getting along well, especially and notably Brian & Mike.

• Alan's impersonations are indeed hilarious, and eerily accurate! Not just the voices, but mannerisms too; the man is multi-talented.

Then he said had prepared an iTunes playlist for me, consisting of 86 tracks. After the paramedics arrived to resuscitate my ticker, I geeked-out with his headphones and iPad for... a couple hours, I guess. Here are some specifics from my memories:

I believe the dates ranged from circa 1963, the 'Audree tapes,' to 1996, the S&S sessions. Many tracks were familiar titles — things like "Little Bird" with BGV & track (no lead), vocal-only of "Time To Get Alone," and "We're Together Again" with strings — but also many completely unreleased titles. I think all eras were represented, including solo Mike.

"Live Again" is as great as rumored, but not a departure from Dennis's style of the period. "Cuddle Up"/"Old Movie" (2 different tracks/takes) is possibly even moodier and more dramatic/emotional than "Live Again." "Little Red Book" is very cool. "My Solution" is a funny oddity, experimental and interesting — but rough, and ultimately not a terribly important part of the canon; understandably unreleased. Dennis's "Ecology," however, while also experimental and rough, I thought it was of more consequence. Another very cool thing that I hadn't known about is Dennis & Carl's "Barnyard" (no connection to the SMILE tune?). I thought Brian's lead on the 1974 "California Feeling" sounded so odd that I wasn't even sure it was him — Carl's later retake sounds 'right' to my ears. There was an aborted "2,000 Years" string intro/overture for Dennis's "Friday Nights" that contained dated, sitar-sounding elements. Dennis's piano demo of "Be With Me" is a great fly-on-the wall moment. "All Day, All Night" was a highly-repetitive mediation that became "Whistle In." Alternate version of "Add Some Music" is very good, different lyrics. "Walkin'" and "Where Is She?" are SUNFLOWER outtakes. The "Caroline, No" BGV from S&S sessions were shockingly gorgeous, and have a "My Prayer" vibe. And I remember a few live tracks: "Please Let Me Wonder" (1965?), "All I Want To Do," and "Wild Honey" (1972-'73?).

Overall impression: this batch of material demonstrates, once again, the dynamic and diverse body of work our favorite band created. But it requires the painstaking efforts of people like Alan and Mark Linett to mine the archives for nuggets of gold — and I'm convinced they have the BB's integrity in mind; that's their motivation. (The ENDLESS HARMONY film and HAWTHORNE comp. being just 2 examples.)

More specifically, based on this collection, I'm guessing most of the best of the unreleased early/'golden era' material has already been tapped — of course, I'd love to be wrong about this presumption. Aficionados of the later periods (post-SMILE), however, have a lot to look forward to if/when these things see the light of day.

Apparently the music I heard is being potentially considered for a proposed archive compilation, because he asked me which of the tracks stand-out as things that should definitely be released. And Alan is aware of this forum, of course, and reads it occasionally, so our input might have an influence, to an extent.

By this point, Alan's friend was exhausted, and so was I, it was a long night, so we split at about 1am. Alan walked with us out to the car — invited me back next time I'm in LA — and, while in the street, 'performed' a snippet of Jan interviewing Brian; a sidesplitting and perfect ending to an unforgettable night.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like a lot of things on that track list Alan played for Ponghit have ended up on the box.

Hate to piss on anyone's campfire, but that playlist - or a version thereof - has been on Boyd's laptop for a good decade, if not longer. Also this - "Apparently the music I heard is being potentially considered for a proposed archive compilation" - is so overqualified as to be essentially unemployable. Ponghit thinks what he heard might be in the running for some nebulous compilation that might be archive-slanted. In essence true... but it's also been true for ten years or more. So much for the archive-heavy nature of the box. As the BRI vaultmeister, Boyd needs this kind of stuff to hand at a moments notice should someone in the tower or at BRI want to know what's 'out there'. I know I'm seemingly being very harsh on Ponghit here, but from his own recollections it's obvious that Boyd didn't say "which of these should go on the upcoming box ?", and that any such inference is his own slant on the situation.

[AndrewHickey]

Like I said upthread, let's all give up and just let Jon Blum post here. The guy nails it every time. Jon, that is the most coherent analysis of MiC I've read anywhere; thanks. Reasoned, restrained, sensible, and thought-provoking. I await more in that vein.

...'course, I don't agree with you entirely about Smiley Smile, but that's just opinions, and that's why we're here! (yes, *sure* it sounds like it was recorded inside a giant hookah - but oh, those harmonies...). Despite that, like you, I would rather they had put Wonderful on this new set, rather than, um... Wonderful. 1966 to 1967 doesn't sound like much, but what a difference.

Agreed with all this, pretty much, except Wonderful. I think the live version of it from 1993 -- if it's either of the versions I've heard from that tour -- does a very, very good job of duplicating the feel of the Smile version. With that on there, and with Smile now legally available, I'd rather have the Smiley version on the box.

[Yorick]

Here's what Andrew has said about 'Where Is She?', seems like we shouldn't get too excited:

"Where Is She" (recorded 11/69, pretty much a solo BW track.
Wouldn't call it haunting. It's basically a keyboard, rhythm box and Brian singing very high. Got potential, but very rough.

[Generation42]

Booming post.

What live stuff they use on this set is rather interesting - whereas on the 1993 set, every live track featured Brian Wilson...

Yes, a great post by Mr. Blum.

Concerning the live material on the 1993 box, I'm going to take this chance to raise a question.  I've always thought that, though Brian was in attendance, he did not sing or play on "Good Vibrations" during the Michigan, '66 premieres of the song, only being coaxed out to the stage before the final number(s).

That said, while listening to the shows lately, I've come around to thinking that I hear him singing on GV, and now you state, through its inclusion on the GV box, that Brian was on it.  Has this been confirmed?  Has it always been known?  Or was this just a simple oversight?

Finally, I remember ponghit's story, and I think he always qualified his words by saying the tracks he heard were only being considered for release.  This being the case, I don't see how his remarks are in any way incongruous with the final track listing.  Maybe it's just me.

[bonnevillemariner]

Not putting the reunion DIA on there is a stroke of madness, too. It'd be perfect, and I'd be able to actually have a copy - screw importing a 'zinepack' from America.

That dumb 'zinepack' is a perfect example of a rip-off.  If you want 2012 Do It Again, the ONLY way to get it is to purchase a dozen of the hits *yet again.*  When DIA didn't make 50 Big Ones, I bought the zinepack.  Nice little mag, I guess, but another tick on my tally of how many times I've purchased these songs.  As a customer of this particular product, I suppose I'm entitled to complain:)

What sucks too is that the live version of DIA on the Isn't It Time EP is superior to the 2012 studio version.  That you can buy a la carte.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Here's what Andrew has said about 'Where Is She?', seems like we shouldn't get too excited:

"Where Is She" (recorded 11/69, pretty much a solo BW track.
Wouldn't call it haunting. It's basically a keyboard, rhythm box and Brian singing very high. Got potential, but very rough.

I understand it's been given a sympathetic edit since then.

[Andrew G. Doe]

That dumb 'zinepack' is a perfect example of a rip-off.  If you want 2012 Do It Again, the ONLY way to get it is to purchase a dozen of the hits *yet again.*

Not so - it's a bonus track on the Japanese version of TWGMTR.

[AndrewHickey]

I know I'm seemingly being very harsh on Ponghit here, but from his own recollections it's obvious that Boyd didn't say "which of these should go on the upcoming box ?", and that any such inference is his own slant on the situation.

To be fair, I don't think that even Ponghit ever made that inference. I think a bunch of other people put two and two together and made 537. Ponghit himself later said, when talking about the box specifically, that it would be a GV box replacement. Certainly I never took from any of his posts that there was any likelihood of all the material he talked about coming out.

[Bicyclerider]

Sounds like a lot of things on that track list Alan played for Ponghit have ended up on the box.

Hate to piss on anyone's campfire, but that playlist - or a version thereof - has been on Boyd's laptop for a good decade, if not longer. Also this - "Apparently the music I heard is being potentially considered for a proposed archive compilation" - is so overqualified as to be essentially unemployable. Ponghit thinks what he heard might be in the running for some nebulous compilation that might be archive-slanted. In essence true... but it's also been true for ten years or more. So much for the archive-heavy nature of the box. As the BRI vaultmeister, Boyd needs this kind of stuff to hand at a moments notice should someone in the tower or at BRI want to know what's 'out there'. I know I'm seemingly being very harsh on Ponghit here, but from his own recollections it's obvious that Boyd didn't say "which of these should go on the upcoming box ?", and that any such inference is his own slant on the situation.

Almost all of the "rare" or unreleased material was discovered during tape vault trawls that were conducted ten years ago for previous rarities collections - the old tapes have not multipled since then, with one important exception.  So this material clearly is the archive that was in consideration for inclusion on the new box set, while NOT being a preliminary track list by any stretch of the imagination.

What I'd like to know from Ponghit - was "Meant for You" the Friends outtake he heard that he seemed very excited about?  Or was it something different?  He said it was NOT "Our Happy Home."  Was it "You're as Cool as You can Be?"

[AndrewHickey]

What I'd like to know from Ponghit - was "Meant for You" the Friends outtake he heard that he seemed very excited about?  Or was it something different?  He said it was NOT "Our Happy Home."  Was it "You're as Cool as You can Be?"

He said earlier in this thread that it was -- http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15760.msg375408.html#msg375408

[Shady]

Here's what Andrew has said about 'Where Is She?', seems like we shouldn't get too excited:

"Where Is She" (recorded 11/69, pretty much a solo BW track.
Wouldn't call it haunting. It's basically a keyboard, rhythm box and Brian singing very high. Got potential, but very rough.

Brian alone with a keyboard? I'm excited.

[Nicko1234]

Here's what Andrew has said about 'Where Is She?', seems like we shouldn't get too excited:

"Where Is She" (recorded 11/69, pretty much a solo BW track.
Wouldn't call it haunting. It's basically a keyboard, rhythm box and Brian singing very high. Got potential, but very rough.

I guess all of the unreleased songs on disc 6 (ecept for Back Home maybe) will be a little rough and unfinished. I presume, for example, that things like Sherry She Needs Me and You've Lost that Lovin Feeling were not included sequentially on disc 4 because they thought Brian's vocals might scare people off.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Never got a reply first time around, so I'll try again...

Are we going to get the full-length WIBNTLA? Now that we know that it's officially being released, presumably there's no harm in us being told whether we're getting the full-length version - complete with flutey noodling - or an edited version?

Personally I very much hope we get the full-length version, regardless of whether the flutes go on a bit at the end. I haven't waited four decades to hear the song only to have someone behind the scenes decide 'You know what, they don't need to hear all of this, man' - SNIP!

[Andrew G. Doe]

"YLTLF" is done, dusted and finished. IMHO, magnificent.

[Nicko1234]

"YLTLF" is done, dusted and finished. IMHO, magnificent.

Yep with rough as hell Brian vocals.

Is there any other reason it wouldn't have been placed sequentially on disc 4?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Never got a reply first time around, so I'll try again...

Are we going to get the full-length WIBNTLA? Now that we know that it's officially being released, presumably there's no harm in us being told whether we're getting the full-length version - complete with flutey noodling - or an edited version?

Personally I very much hope we get the full-length version, regardless of whether the flutes go on a bit at the end. I haven't waited four decades to hear the song only to have someone behind the scenes decide 'You know what, they don't need to hear all of this, man' - SNIP!

One. More. Time.

The 'edited' version is the 'correct' version. The so-called 'long' version is just the band jamming for another few minutes after the vocals finish. Frankly, it's boring and detracts for the actual song. Know who decided behind the scenes you didn't need to listen to all of it ? Dude called Wilson, back in 1971. But of course, you know better than him...  

[Dunderhead]

Hate to piss on anyone's campfire, but that playlist - or a version thereof - has been on Boyd's laptop for a good decade, if not longer. Also this - "Apparently the music I heard is being potentially considered for a proposed archive compilation" - is so overqualified as to be essentially unemployable. Ponghit thinks what he heard might be in the running for some nebulous compilation that might be archive-slanted. In essence true... but it's also been true for ten years or more. So much for the archive-heavy nature of the box. As the BRI vaultmeister, Boyd needs this kind of stuff to hand at a moments notice should someone in the tower or at BRI want to know what's 'out there'. I know I'm seemingly being very harsh on Ponghit here, but from his own recollections it's obvious that Boyd didn't say "which of these should go on the upcoming box ?", and that any such inference is his own slant on the situation.

Who cares honestly? It was brought up as an example of the types of hints and suggestions that were being dolled out from multiple posters.

The point in contention is as follows:

Over the last year besides the initial press release, which gave no information, no name, no release date (in fact it said later in 2012 actually), little, if anything else official has been said about this release. What little jewels of intimations could be gathered were rough and unpolished. They had to be gathered from multiple sources of varying quality, and based on little besides intuitive feeling, judged according to purity as to how authentic and reliable they were. Now with the whole in view, that some would be disappointed by the whole as it stands is considered somehow unacceptable, because it's assumed that disappointment has emerged from unreasonable expectations developed over the preceding year. We are then told, as if the final thing had been revealed clearly to us all along from the very beginning, that what had been promised has been delivered.

Nothing in fact was promised at all besides something in only the vaguest sense, and everything else about it was extrapolated from a corrupted hodgepodge of information from various "insiders" all falling over one another in unmitigated claims to authority. The idea of the final thing was confused all along. It was seriously doubtful that it was even coming out despite whatever ephemeral hints you may have thought yourself to be dropping us.

If disappointment with the revealed tracklist is in fact due solely to expectations improperly conceived in imagination (which I only take as given here honestly, and don't think is the actual source), when nothing at all definite was in fact given about the final product, and this selfsame lack of any conscientious and timely communication of facts via a press release was the very thing that served as the seedbed of so much malignant speculation, then to assert now the case was somehow different in retrospect, with the form of the past clearly in view from the vantage our present knowledge and only that provides us, is simply a mischaracterization.

To demonstrate this by evidence, ponghit, from several other possible incidents was in this case produced. Refuting these many examples and incidents from the present does us no good in dispelling the current misconception because no one among them contains the whole character of the confusion and uncertainty they all together only formed like so many drops of moisture hanging together all in a fog. It's just a silly waste of energy to sit here and try and give by example the idea and have some of you one by one try and disprove that idea from cases alone as what you're trying to disprove is nowhere located in any of those cases.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Times change - when I asked in 1993 why there were no SIP tracks on the box, I was told "it's their latest release, it's still out there". Thankfully 20 years on, someone's grown some smarts (although not entirely - the single version of "IIT" sucks, and sucks epically).

Very accurate. It amazes me how they managed to take what is one of the very best songs from TWGMTR and turn it into an absolute pile of crap. I had very few disappointments when first reading through the MIC set-list, but the inclusion of the single version of IIT was something of a bummer.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Never got a reply first time around, so I'll try again...

Are we going to get the full-length WIBNTLA? Now that we know that it's officially being released, presumably there's no harm in us being told whether we're getting the full-length version - complete with flutey noodling - or an edited version?

Personally I very much hope we get the full-length version, regardless of whether the flutes go on a bit at the end. I haven't waited four decades to hear the song only to have someone behind the scenes decide 'You know what, they don't need to hear all of this, man' - SNIP!

One. More. Time.

The 'edited' version is the 'correct' version. The so-called 'long' version is just the band jamming for another few minutes after the vocals finish. Frankly, it's boring and detracts for the actual song. Know who decided behind the scenes you didn't need to listen to all of it ? Dude called Wilson, back in 1971. But of course, you know better than him...  

Wilson who?

[monicker]

Here's what Andrew has said about 'Where Is She?', seems like we shouldn't get too excited:

"Where Is She" (recorded 11/69, pretty much a solo BW track.
Wouldn't call it haunting. It's basically a keyboard, rhythm box and Brian singing very high. Got potential, but very rough.

This sounds so promising and exciting. I don't really trust anyone's tastes on here, especially not Andrew's, so i am very excited to hear this based on the minimal description and the year.

[AndrewHickey]

It was seriously doubtful that it was even coming out despite whatever ephemeral hints you may have thought yourself to be dropping us.

No it wasn't. Anyone who knew anything kept telling us "things are progressing, everything's fine".

This selfsame lack of any conscientious and timely communication of facts via a press release

WHAT "lack of any conscientious and timely communication"? They put out a press release two and a half months before the release -- EXACTLY AS IS NORMAL IN THESE SITUATIONS. It's so normal, in fact, that the day before the press release came out I said (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15498.msg374289.html ) "If Made In California *is* coming out on August 27th, we should expect an announcement, with tracklisting, at some point in the next two or three weeks. " and gave four other examples of box sets that came out or are coming out this year, whose press releases were all two months (give or take a week or two) before the release.

We have had EXACTLY as much information about this set as EVER comes out about a box set before its release, on a pretty much identical schedule to the way that information comes out. The fact that a bunch of people chose to get hysterical thanks to Phil Cohen's Chicken Little impersonation doesn't mean that Universal actually did anything wrong.

FACT: People like AGD, Adam Marsland, Ponghit, and others, all of whom had some degree of access to one or more people involved, made statements saying what kind of box set this would be. Not 'official' statements, but ones with a degree of authority behind them. Those statements were largely accurate.
FACT: Nothing put out by the record label ever suggested anything else.
FACT: A bunch of other people then decided to pull a lot of stuff out of their arses and start talking about 6-CD rarities collections, speculating about tracks that would be included (which then magically became 'facts'), and generally making stuff up.

You have apparently chosen to believe those people, and are now blaming the record label for your own bad choice in who to trust.

[JoelBarrish]

I'm not necessarily irritated about the track listing per say. I'm relatively indifferent, I just kinda would like for them to put out what would essentially be a budget set of this, including only the outtakes, demos, live cuts and what not. It'd be cool to do for people who don't have a lot of interest in a box set. Every box set I've ever bought, I end up yanking the CDs anyway and putting them in my car anyway, though I could be in the minority here. That's not to say I think the packaging is poorly done either, it's really cool, just a little impractical for me personally. I think they did a great job with The Smile Sessions, releasing the big box, then the budget two CD set. I ended up purchasing the two CD set for my car, as I got it heavily discounted. But I only purchased it on vinyl when it was first released. Which brings up an interesting question. Has anyone heard of any plans to bring any of this material to vinyl? It'd be cool to put out a 4-LP set of the important stuff. Of course then you might have people complaining about what got left off, I just don't know how viable a 12-LP boxset would be as far as sales are concerned.

[AndrewHickey]

I'm not necessarily irritated about the track listing per say. I'm relatively indifferent, I just kinda would like for them to put out what would essentially be a budget set of this, including only the outtakes, demos, live cuts and what not. It'd be cool to do for people who don't have a lot of interest in a box set.

That would be good, yes. I don't see them doing it, but it would be a very nice thing to do. Of course, if they do (as people have suggested seems very likely) make the tracks individually available as MP3s, you could essentially do that yourself. Might even be a fun group project for some people on the board to come up with a listenable sequence for just the unreleased stuff and make cover art for it, so people could burn their own Made In California Redux.

[JoelBarrish]

I'm not necessarily irritated about the track listing per say. I'm relatively indifferent, I just kinda would like for them to put out what would essentially be a budget set of this, including only the outtakes, demos, live cuts and what not. It'd be cool to do for people who don't have a lot of interest in a box set.

That would be good, yes. I don't see them doing it, but it would be a very nice thing to do. Of course, if they do (as people have suggested seems very likely) make the tracks individually available as MP3s, you could essentially do that yourself. Might even be a fun group project for some people on the board to come up with a listenable sequence for just the unreleased stuff and make cover art for it, so people could burn their own Made In California Redux.

Definitely could be an interactive thing to do for sure, but I'm one of those guys who really, really likes having a physical format of some sort. Which, obviously they're doing with the boxset, so I'll probably end up purchasing it anyway, it's just a mild hope of mine that they could have alternate versions of it. For some reason, I've never gotten into the whole cherry picking mp3s thing. If I'm hanging at home, I'm listening pretty strictly to vinyl, and if I'm in my car, I'm listening to CDs. I'd be fairly surprised, what with the recent cool factor and resurgence of the format, if they don't choose to do some type of vinyl release. They've proven to care about that type of thing, with The Smile Sessions and That's Why God Made The Radio even having a vinyl specific track listing.