From 1984: Mike Talks About Dennis

[Rocker]

EDIT: I just wanted to add that whenever I picture Rocky and Stan brutally beating up Dennis, I get sad and almost cry. It's definitely a sad emotion. But what does Mike do in the interview? He laughs about it. In my opinion that's shameful.

How did you feel when Dennis appeared on a national TV special, laughing, and saying about his brother, Brian, "He's crazy..."

It's the only thing I want to post on this topic, but you do know that he was just making fun of all the people who actually say that Brian is crazy, don't you?

[Jon Stebbins]

So the solo tour was voted down by the band then?  I wasn't aware of that.  I was under the impression that Dennis backed out of it himself due to insecurity.  No idea if I read that somewhere or my mind just made it up along the way...

There are plenty of sources who will verify Dennis' insecurity, however, there are multiple eyewitnesses and informed insiders (Stan Shapiro, Gregg Jakobson, Karen Lamm and others) that recounted an absolute ultimatum was given to Dennis in Nov. '77, do the solo tour or be in the Beach Boys...your choice. He was told he could not do both.

[Sheriff John Stone]

EDIT: I just wanted to add that whenever I picture Rocky and Stan brutally beating up Dennis, I get sad and almost cry. It's definitely a sad emotion. But what does Mike do in the interview? He laughs about it. In my opinion that's shameful.

How did you feel when Dennis appeared on a national TV special, laughing, and saying about his brother, Brian, "He's crazy..."

It's the only thing I want to post on this topic, but you do know that he was just making fun of all the people who actually say that Brian is crazy, don't you?

Actually, I don't know that. Dennis spent a few sentences prior to that quote explaining how he saw "nothing wrong with staying in the house..." among a few other reasons why Brian wasn't really "crazy". I didn't find Dennis' explanation convincing, and, I always thought DENNIS didn't believe it, finally relenting (and these are my words), "OK, maybe he IS crazy. Ha ha...."

I do remember reading an article about a time Dennis found Brian lying on the floor, curled up in a ball, weeping, and it scared Dennis. And, TDHabib informed us that Dennis used to visit Brian's house every day to help him when Brian was declining into MENTAL ILLNESS. Every day. Check the WNEW interview from 1976. So, I believe that Dennis DID BELIEVE that Brian was mentally ill, not making fun of other people who were saying it.

But, hey, that's just my opinion. Wait a few minutes and I'm sure you'll get about a dozen people who will disagree with me and agree with you...

[Sheriff John Stone]

So the solo tour was voted down by the band then?  I wasn't aware of that.  I was under the impression that Dennis backed out of it himself due to insecurity.  No idea if I read that somewhere or my mind just made it up along the way...

There are plenty of sources who will verify Dennis' insecurity, however, there are multiple eyewitnesses and informed insiders (Stan Shapiro, Gregg Jakobson, Karen Lamm and others) that recounted an absolute ultimatum was given to Dennis in Nov. '77, do the solo tour or be in the Beach Boys...your choice. He was told he could not do both.

Jon, not doubting your sources/research, but it begs the questions...Who gave the ultimatum, and why, less than six months later, the "permission" to tour solo was given to Mike? Shortly after that Carl. Eventually Brian. And finally Al. Why single out Dennis?

[Howie Edelson]

Sheriff John Stone you've posted Two T-H-O-U-S-A-N-D Nine H-U-N-D-R-E-D and Thirty-Two times on a Beach Boys message board. Why do YOU think??? Why do YOU think an ultimatum was given??? All this insane posting and you can't figure out the difference between Dennis Wilson touring solo and Mike Love playing live dates and what that means???

I mean, it gets to a point where it's just posting for posting's sake, no???

[Andrew G. Doe]

So the solo tour was voted down by the band then?  I wasn't aware of that.  I was under the impression that Dennis backed out of it himself due to insecurity.  No idea if I read that somewhere or my mind just made it up along the way...

There are plenty of sources who will verify Dennis' insecurity, however, there are multiple eyewitnesses and informed insiders (Stan Shapiro, Gregg Jakobson, Karen Lamm and others) that recounted an absolute ultimatum was given to Dennis in Nov. '77, do the solo tour or be in the Beach Boys...your choice. He was told he could not do both.

Jon, not doubting your sources/research, but it begs the questions...Who gave the ultimatum, and why, less than six months later, the "permission" to tour solo was given to Mike? Shortly after that Carl. Eventually Brian. And finally Al. Why single out Dennis?

You really, really don't know your basic Beach Boys history at all, do you ?

Mike 'touring' with Celebration - one live show (at which both Brian & Carl turned up), one TV appearance (with Brian) late May/early June when the BB weren't touring. Hardly a 'tour'.

Carl's solo tours 1981 - well, duh, he'd left the band at this point (btw, 1981 is not 'shortly after' spring 1978, it's three years later).

Brian - not in the band in 1999.

Alan - not in the band in 1998 (so hardly 'finally', either).

This is not arcane, withheld information: it's common, basic BB knowledge. Here's a hint - if you're going to try to make a point, check that what you're saying has some kind of foundation in fact. That way, you won't get folk here assuming your BB knowledge is, at best, minimal. If not, I'll find out your real name, where you live, come round and strangle your kittens. Or something equally inappropriate. We're like that in cyberspace.  

[Sheriff John Stone]

Howie, no. No, it's not just posting for posting's sake. I'm assuming you've been following the board, and several threads lately have been debunking rumors, myths, and untruths. This particular issue has always mystified me.

First, why would Mike give an ultimatum like that? All I read is that Mike hated Dennis the person, the drummer, the drug addict, the songwriter. You would think that Mike would be the last person to keep Dennis from going solo. You would think that Mike would be saying, "Please, Dennis, do it. Go. Don't hurry back..." You would think Mike (or Carl) would be happy to plug in another drummer (and onstage singer). With all due respect to Dennis, and I think POB is easily the best solo album of the bunch, his absence on stage would hardly dent the quality of the shows OR the gate, despite Dennis being the "sex symbol" of the group. And, POB wouldn't/didn't hurt Beach Boys' sales; there is always a "cross sale" of albums when a group member goes solo.

Second, are you saying that Dennis simply "backed down" to Mike? Mike Love gives Dennis Wilson an ultimatum, and Dennis says, "OK Mike". That's hard to believe. And, what kind of "ultimatum" are you talking about? They met in a back alley...or a bowling alley? Wouldn't something like that have to come to a vote? Who represented Dennis at the meeting when the solo tour was proposed? They didn't do their job very well.

And, finally, I'll repeat the question. If it was/is OK for ALL of the other guys to do solo dates, why not Dennis? I ask you Howie (or soon Jon when he checks in to hammer me). I'm sorry for repeating myself but...the quality of the shows would not be compromised, and they could've avoided a lot of headaches; what was the motivation behind the ultimatum?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Why this assumption that it was Mike who issued the ultimatum ? No-one's said that. Except you.

BTW, you ask what the ultimatum was... which is odd, as Jon has stated exactly what it was on this very page, less than an hour ago. You're not reading this thread, just ploughing on with your own idee fixee as to how things were.

[oldsurferdude]

Sheriff John Stone you've posted Two T-H-O-U-S-A-N-D Nine H-U-N-D-R-E-D and Thirty-Two times on a Beach Boys message board. Why do YOU think??? Why do YOU think an ultimatum was given??? All this insane posting and you can't figure out the difference between Dennis Wilson touring solo and Mike Love playing live dates and what that means???

I mean, it gets to a point where it's just posting for posting's sake, no???

Not to mention the 972 posts on the Shut Down board-(is this sheriff shooting for some kinda record?) Loquacious, verbose and mostly a bore, especially in his perforated daily defense of Myk Luv, this M L wannabe is a grand master of laughable baffoonery who is only interested in putting his opinion in front of people who just don't care. Post  a topic, he'll be there-guarenteed! He'll take his time and your time to say in a hundred words what most people could say in twenty two. Ah, but that's where it gets even better-beware of disagreeing with this chap and yo'll get it right back in the good ol' kisser because HE KNOWS BETTER!!

[Dancing Bear]

Questioning old BB myths won't hurt anyone here. You know, when we lwat expect, James William Guercio can give an interview where he states that Carl and Dennis gave their welcome with open arms to the inclusion of more oldies in the set list in 73/74, and we all have to rewrite our truths. 

[?]

So the solo tour was voted down by the band then?  I wasn't aware of that.  I was under the impression that Dennis backed out of it himself due to insecurity.  No idea if I read that somewhere or my mind just made it up along the way...

There are plenty of sources who will verify Dennis' insecurity, however, there are multiple eyewitnesses and informed insiders (Stan Shapiro, Gregg Jakobson, Karen Lamm and others) that recounted an absolute ultimatum was given to Dennis in Nov. '77, do the solo tour or be in the Beach Boys...your choice. He was told he could not do both.

Ah.  Thanks for the info, Jon.  Count me among those waiting on that revised edition of The Real Beach Boy!

[OneEar/OneEye]

Though I guess I understand why he didn't, I think it would have been great if he'd said "screw you guys" and gone and done the tour.   The band was in a creative coma they'd never really ever come out of.   He's really the only one outside of Brian and Bruce that had any real potential for having a solo career.

[TdHabib]

If not, I'll find out your real name, where you live, come round and strangle your kittens. Or something equally inappropriate.

And that would be cheap as it will require air fare from England to the US, no?

[Jason]

If not, I'll find out your real name, where you live, come round and strangle your kittens. Or something equally inappropriate. We're like that in cyberspace.  

On this board it has gone from members wanting to punch people in the head, to telling their wives to join the circus, and now Andrew wants to strangle someone's kittens. GOD, NOT THE KITTENS! WHERE'S THE HUMANITY? YOU ARE ALL RUFFIANS! I HEREBY RESIGN FROM THE BOARD FOREVER!!!!!1111oneoneone 

As far as the "ultimatum", that came from all of the band, including Carl. There is no clear cut "bad guy" in that scenario. Might as well damn the whole band minus Dennis in that equation. But Dennis could have easily done the tour, as we all know he was by no means afraid of anyone in the band. I'd chalk it up to a case of cold feet.

And it should be noted that the closest Michael ever came to a solo "tour" was a very limited set of engagements in late 1981 to promote Looking Back With Love, and a few of them were canceled. And I don't even think Michael took Celebration seriously enough to even consider doing a tour with them. As stated, one show and a TV gig, both with Brian and Al, with Carl as well for the show.

[urbanite]

I went to one of Mike's solo shows to promote his album.  He did a fairly long set with Jeff Foskett and it was pretty good.

[gsmile]

For the record, I gotta say I've always enjoyed Sherrif's posts on this board...nothing wrong with questioning Beach Boys myths, especially when there's not much "new" news to talk about.  In a speculative sense, a lot of Sherrif's posts have been insightful and usually with a humorous bent.  I can only come to the conclusion that the Mr. Michael Love himself is using his Jedi Mind Tricks to turn the members of this board against each other.  SMILEY SMILERS UNITE!  There is a greater evil than ourselves out there...and he wears old man caps and glitter adorned vests.

[TdHabib]

Questioning old BB myths won't hurt anyone here.

Inane posting might (and by current evidence does).

[Dancing Bear]

Questioning old BB myths won't hurt anyone here.

Inane posting might (and by current evidence does).

Inane posting should be ignored at best. The "You just don't get, do you?" kind of answer won't take us anywhere and is way more harmful.

[TdHabib]

Ah, good old Rob

[Dancing Bear]

You said it, not me. 

[b00ts]

Questioning old BB myths won't hurt anyone here.

Inane posting might (and by current evidence does).

Inane posting should be ignored at best. The "You just don't get, do you?" kind of answer won't take us anywhere and is way more harmful.

Let me add to the inane posting by saying "agreed." I sat down with a sandwich and noticed that this thread had grown two pages since I last read it; I was excited to read more about the Beach Boys but instead found increasingly diminishing returns.

Luckily, the sandwich was delicious.

I have wondered at certain points if SJS was Mike Love himself, but we do need a "devil's advocate" around here, don't we?

So, let me start the Beach Boys discussion back up. Is it true that Dennis and Mike had a baby together, and if so how is that possible? Please be specific and support your answers.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Alright guys...for real...let's try to be cordial.

[MBE]

My view on the Dennis tour is that it didn't go through because of bad timing.

First he was regularly showing up to gigs stoned or drunk by late 1977. Perhaps he would have been more motivated to have his act together on a solo jaunt, but he was reaching the point to where he couldn't be counted on completely. I say all that with a great deal of sadness because the Dennis who had started POB several years earlier would have done a terrific job.

Second is that the band was in more turmoil then ever before. At the time Carl was in worse shape then either of his brothers. Brian wasn't going to or wasn't able to defend Dennis. The group had just broken up, ultimately getting back together because the huge CBS deal was at stake. I suspect that Dennis felt more vulnerable then normal when he was threatened with expulsion. Sure he could have just done the tour anyway but it wasn't like he had a top ten album or single to ride on. As good as the shows may have been artistically, he couldn't have known for sure if he had a long term career away from the band. Had this all occured during a time when the band was more stable and he was more stable perhaps he wouldn't have had to give up the tour to remain in the group.

[smile-holland]

MBE, I think you pretty much nailed it. It's a sum of factors that probably caused this ultimatum (or whatever you call it).

[Jonas]

This thread is class.