VDP: "victimised by Brian Wilson's buffoonery"

[mammy blue]

No, I think VDP was making a point that he's been making for a while, just in a less diplomatic way. During the SMiLE era, his professional relationship with Brian was what mattered, and he was careful not to undermine it. As he's continually insisted, he never entered "the tent". He was appalled by the shenanigans during the recording of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow"... But for Mike Love (and others, I'm sure, but Mike Love most vocally), VDP came to represent something more. He became associated with all the external craziness... despite VDP's disapproval of it. The outright slanderous character of "Van Dyke Parks" in the Stamos Movie became the embodiment of this, where we have VDP representing the drug pushers and every negative element that came into Brian's life during that time. That's why I think that movie, though seemingly inconsequential to most of us, rubbed VDP very raw and he's obviously still not at peace about it.

[Don Malcolm]

It strikes me that no one, including Van Dyke Parks, really understood the slippery dynamics of the Beach Boys in mid-1966 and the fact that many forces were coming to a head as a result of Brian's desire to be something akin to the "executive producer" of the enterprise--some of which was founded on his own growing feeling of alienation from his own success. All of that was in play even in the context of the band putting out a radically new sound and new compositional method in "Good Vibrations." What followed that was a lot more esoteric and a lot less based in what a number of folks have called "avant-garde R&B." To this day, even after a completed version of Smile with the assistance of VDP, the "bad vibes" that overtook the project have still not gone away. I think VDP continues to believe that Brian (over)played a lot of mind games with people during the Smile era, which was based on what many have seen as the family business steamrollering his desire to keep moving forward artistically. Now that it's clear to most everyone that Brian was a lot more functional in the 1967-72 time frame (and VDP was still in the picture during much of that), he may just be feeling extra testy about things.

I suspect that he regrets having used the term "buffoonery" (especially after having seen it in headline-sized type) but he's also cantankerous enough to feel justified in using the term. And since a) he lived through all of that and a whole lot more and b) he's an extremely talented composer, lyricist and arranger despite his tendency toward rhetorical excess when talking with members of the press, we might just want to cut him as much slack as the various factions here tend to cut Brian and Mike.

[Smilin Ed H]

Didn't someone say he's a "butthole"?

[Rocky Raccoon]

I don't think "buffoonery" refers to Brian's mental state rather than it referring to all the drugs and sandboxes and tents. 

I'd imagine that to be an outsider in that situation is unnerving.

[Custom Machine]

Didn't someone say he's a "butthole"?

Exactly.  Or to be more precise, I think it was something along the lines of  "the biggest buttonhole."  I've always wondered what prompted BW to make that statement, and what VDP's reaction was when he first heard about Brian's comment or heard the actual recording.  Of course, BW made that statement years ago, in what sounded like an inebriated state.  Someone refresh my memory - when was that?

[phirnis]

"Biggest butthole in the world" if I remember correctly.

Was apparently recorded at someone's birthday party sometime in the 1990s. Would be interesting to know if it was before or after they collaborated on the VDP album. Either way, BW sounds drunk.

[Gertie J.]

'twas ringos b-party. and brian wasnt zombie serious when he said that anyway.

[theCOD]

Didn't someone say he's a "butthole"?

Here's the audio: http://youtu.be/fgAMHVL9hBQ

 

[MBE]

I was from a Ringo Starr party for his wife Barbara. I think it was 1992 or 1997 because those are the two years they recorded together.

[Gertie J.]

1997, yess!!

[MBE]

I leaned towards that because Steven Tyler is there and calls Brian a "freak" on mic.

[AndrewHickey]

As far as being bitter.
A. He seems to not understand Brian's problems.
B. If Brian and The Beach Boys hadn't recorded his songs, he would be known by maybe 20 percent of the people who know him today.

Well, first, who says he doesn't understand Brian's problems? One can be mentally ill *and* behave badly, for reasons that have nothing to do with the illness. Mental illness isn't a "get out of responsibility for your life free" card.

And as for people knowing about him, the first thing he says in that interview is that he's never wanted fame. I suspect most of the people who actually buy his albums or go to his shows know about him from multiple different sources (certainly I know that in my case before I ever knew about Smile I was aware of his work with Nilsson, Randy Newman and Ry Cooder, and having spoken to other Parks fans I know it's true of many of them).

So from his point of view, what his association with the Beach Boys has brought him is a relatively small amount of money (because we know the Sea Of Tunes contracts weren't exactly generous to non-family, and he didn't write any major hits with Brian), a certain amount of interpersonal stress, and a bunch of people on message boards who call him a prick because he dares to say that Brian Wilson may sometimes have behaved badly, or because he expresses himself using actual words rather than grunting noises like 'normal' people.

I have no idea if he *is* bitter or not, but really, if he is, who could blame him?

[Summertime Blooz]

As far as being bitter.
A. He seems to not understand Brian's problems.
B. If Brian and The Beach Boys hadn't recorded his songs, he would be known by maybe 20 percent of the people who know him today.

Make that 2 percent!

[Loaf]

Brian and Van Dyke had the chance to hit a grand slam with Smile, but Brian was into the hash tents and fork-and-glass symphonies and Vegetables skits = buffoonery.

The BBs returned, Mike slagged off Van Dyke's lyrics (his art), and Brian didn't stand up for Van Dyke or the work = victimisation.


Seems simple to me, regardless of what transpired in the 45 years since, that VDP has a point. Whether you agree with it or not is beside the point because mostly likely you weren't any of the people directly involved.

[Shady]

wow. Well we have proof for something I have long suspected. Van Dyke Parks is a bitter prick.

Well, time for me to play Devils Advocate -- How many of us have walked a mile in Van Dykes shoes?

I read the article and the mans life story has been fraught with numerous disappointments and setbacks
many that were financially devastating and embarrassing. 

Yet I see a person who was never hesitant to stand by Brian's side, to share his joy and tears.

Lighten up on the man. Yes, his way of expressing himself can be unflattering -- but Van Dyke is
true to his convictions. A masterful artist who has paid the price for his art.

So he's bitter about his disappointments and has decided to start publicly insulting Brian.

I don't care how much of a wordsmith VDK is but buffoon is a insult to this layman.

Maybe he's upset he lost out on the 10k from those acetates his wife sold.

[Loaf]

wow. Well we have proof for something I have long suspected. Van Dyke Parks is a bitter prick.

Well, time for me to play Devils Advocate -- How many of us have walked a mile in Van Dykes shoes?

I read the article and the mans life story has been fraught with numerous disappointments and setbacks
many that were financially devastating and embarrassing. 

Yet I see a person who was never hesitant to stand by Brian's side, to share his joy and tears.

Lighten up on the man. Yes, his way of expressing himself can be unflattering -- but Van Dyke is
true to his convictions. A masterful artist who has paid the price for his art.

So he's bitter about his disappointments and has decided to start publicly insulting Brian.

I don't care how much of a wordsmith VDK is but buffoon is a insult to this layman.

Maybe he's upset he lost out on the 10k from those acetates his wife sold.

Isn't there a certain amount of enjoyment to be had from the irony that the previous post came from someone calling someone else a 'bitter prick'?

[Wirestone]

He did not call Brian a buffoon.

[AndrewHickey]

As far as being bitter.
A. He seems to not understand Brian's problems.
B. If Brian and The Beach Boys hadn't recorded his songs, he would be known by maybe 20 percent of the people who know him today.

Make that 2 percent!

Yes, because no-one has ever heard of Randy Newman, Harry Nilsson, Ry Cooder, Joanna Newsom, U2... *only* the Beach Boys. That's the *only* thing that's brought him to anyone's attention. You're quite right, obviously.

[AndrewHickey]

Isn't there a certain amount of enjoyment to be had from the irony that the previous post came from someone calling someone else a 'bitter prick'?

Especially since Shady doesn't (as far as I know) know Parks at all, and has no way of knowing what went on between him and Brian and how accurate Parks' assessment of it is, while Parks has known Brian for nearly fifty years, off and on...

[Shady]

"Bitter prick" was a bit harsh I guess.

I don't see why Van Dyke is getting defended though. VDP is going down in history because of Brian and Smile and how does he repay Brian, he calls his actions "buffoonery". Incredibly bitter no matter how you spin.

Honestly there's an anti Brian air about this place lately.

[MBE]

As far as being bitter.
A. He seems to not understand Brian's problems.
B. If Brian and The Beach Boys hadn't recorded his songs, he would be known by maybe 20 percent of the people who know him today.

Make that 2 percent!

Yes, because no-one has ever heard of Randy Newman, Harry Nilsson, Ry Cooder, Joanna Newsom, U2... *only* the Beach Boys. That's the *only* thing that's brought him to anyone's attention. You're quite right, obviously.

Well would he have gotten some of these subsequent jobs without the rep he gained from Smile? Not trying to say he did nothing without Brian Wilson or his help, but most of his "fame" today is because he wrote with Brian.  I say this not to be mean, but let's face facts. He got a lot of attention he never would have had without the Smile connection.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

As far as being bitter.
A. He seems to not understand Brian's problems.
B. If Brian and The Beach Boys hadn't recorded his songs, he would be known by maybe 20 percent of the people who know him today.

Make that 2 percent!

Make that 'shut up, he's a legend in his own right'

That kind of sh*t reminds of the teen articles reprinted in the Priore book. Childish tit for tat nonsense, and you only get to play in this minor, off the cuff grouching if your name is Brian Wilson or Van Dyke Parks.

BTW At this point in time, I'm many, many times more excited to listen to new VDP material than I was by TWGMTR. They should have got him to produce their record! Would have still got to no.3, probably would have been significantly less sh*t.

[AndrewHickey]

Yes, because no-one has ever heard of Randy Newman, Harry Nilsson, Ry Cooder, Joanna Newsom, U2... *only* the Beach Boys. That's the *only* thing that's brought him to anyone's attention. You're quite right, obviously.

Well would he have gotten some of these subsequent jobs without the rep he gained from Smile? Not trying to say he did nothing without Brian Wilson or his help, but most of his "fame" today is because he wrote with Brian.  I say this not to be mean, but let's face facts. He got a lot of attention he never would have had without the Smile connection.

He was a respected arranger and musician before he ever worked with Brian. Most of the jobs I listed were through his connection with Lenny Waronker, rather than with Brian.

And again, he says in the interview that he has actively tried to avoid fame throughout his life. Why should he be grateful for something he never asked for and never wanted?

[AndrewHickey]

Make that 'shut up, he's a legend in his own right'

That kind of sh*t reminds of the teen articles reprinted in the Priore book. Childish tit for tat nonsense, and you only get to play in this minor, off the cuff grouching if your name is Brian Wilson or Van Dyke Parks.

BTW At this point in time, I'm many, many times more excited to listen to new VDP material than I was by TWGMTR. They should have got him to produce their record! Would have still got to no.3, probably would have been significantly less sh*t.

I couldn't agree more. Songs Cycled is a thousand times the album That's Why God Made The Radio was.

[AndrewHickey]

"Bitter prick" was a bit harsh I guess.

I don't see why Van Dyke is getting defended though. VDK is going down in history because of Brian and Smile and how does he repay Brian, he calls his actions "buffoonery". Incredibly bitter no matter how you spin.

He's getting defended because you (and others) attacked him, for no good reason. To the extent that Parks will be noted by history at all, it will be because of a huge body of wonderful work in which his collaborations with the Beach Boys are just a very, very small part. And Smile was a collaborative work, to which Parks contributed at least as much as Brian.

If Van Dyke thinks Brian was acting like a buffoon, he has every right to say so, unless you're seriously suggesting that working with someone for six months forty-seven years ago should impose an omerta-like obligation of silence about everything that he disliked.

Have you ever in your life made a mildly negative comment about someone you used to work with? If you have, then you can't really criticise Parks for the same thing.