The Smiley Smile Message Board

Obviously, Brian wanted something fresh when he began writing for Pet Sounds, and that's a big reason on why he wrote with Asher. The big understanding of it all, is that Mike wrote songs about cars and surfing, and Brian wanted to write emotional songs. But, Mike wrote the lyrics for Warmth of The Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, and In The Back Of My Mind, which all have very Pet Sounds-ish lyrics. So, could he have been the lyricist for Pet Sounds? I mean, he already had a hand in I Know There's An Answer and I'm Waiting For The Day.

 As a prime example, I don't believe Mike would have or could have written the lyrics for I just wasn't made for these times.

 As Tony Asher himself as pointed out, Tony himself was not able to really relate to the sentiment of that song… But guess what? Even though he found it wasn't relatable on a personal level, he still did his job and wrote the song!  And wrote amazing lyrics to boot.  

 If Mike were the lyricist for the album,  I could very easily see Mike throwing a big fit about that song, calling it ego music, stating that it's not Beach Boys  enough, etc. And I think the song would not exist as we know it. Which would be a damn shame, because as far as I'm concerned it's one of the very best songs in the entire catalog.

I think that avoiding  dealing with a guy who would have issues  and become argumentative/hostile about writing a song like that is one of the very reasons why Brian chose to work with an outsider on that project. Brian was just sick of working with Mike and dealing with hostility.  Even if Mike technically could have written some excellent lyrics for the album, the aggravation that would have accompanied it, or even the *potential* for deep conflicts  with an entitled person were simply not worth it to Brian.

+10

The question is kind of strange to me, as anyone could have written the lyrics for Pet Sounds, but if anyone other than Tony Asher wrote them, they would be different lyrics.
My personal opinion is that if Mike wrote them, they wouldn't be as good.
I know Warmth of the Sun is much celebrated, and the sentiment is fine and the music is glorious, but the lyrics are rather clumsy. Same with In the Back of my Mind. Please Let Me Wonder is the same, though not quite as clumsy. Good Vibrations same but only a tiny bit clumsy.
Tony Asher's lyrics are a little workmanlike at times, but rarely straight-up awkward.

I think Mike was very capable. He wrote lyrics to most of Today! The question is, did he want to. My guess is they had to his conversation when making Summer Days/Nights and Mike talked Brian into more formulaic lyrics. Brian conceded but moving forward didn't want to argue the point any more and looked for other lyricists. However, Mike was able to write lyrics for Good Vibrations that were both poetic and commercial. Assuming he wrote all the lyrics. He claims he did.

The thought of Mike ruining PS with his ham-fisted lyrics might just ruin my day as well. :o

I agree about Warmth of the Sun -- I really don't think the lyric is up to much at all, and everything good about that song is in the music -- but I can't agree about Good Vibrations. I think it's a rather brilliantly constructed lyric actually (apart from "excitations" which is a dumb rhyme, but catchy enough I'll give it a pass). The way the first verse grounds everything in the sensory world -- invoking sight, sound, and smell -- before moving into the extrasensory, psychic, world of the chorus and second verse, is quite extraordinarily sophisticated for a pop song at that time.
I'm not generally a fan of Mike's lyrics (either the undisputed ones or the songs for which he won credit later) at all, but I'd put that one up with any lyric of the 60s.

I agree mostly about Good Vibrations. I did put "only a tiny bit clumsy." I like them for the most part, but I've always felt the using of all the senses thing felt like a writing course exercise and 'softly smile' I think is using 'softly' as an adjective which kind of distracts me when I hear it. Also - excitations.
But for the most part I like the lyrics of Good Vibrations. I think they're Mike's best, and I agree that they are better than the majority of pop lyrics.

Adding - I guess if Mike never took a writing class, I shouldn't judge him for writing lyrics that feel like a writing class exercise.

Mike would have excelled at it. There is nothing disappointing about Mike's previous lyrics-- including Don't Run Away. And as much as Brian could want a departure from Mike's lyricism and seek respect as an author, Mike showed he was capable of relating to Brian's more introspctive ideas, writing some killer love and relationship lyrics both before and after PS.

Pet sounds is light years ahead of the Mike influenced summer days and nights lyrics. BW had something to say in pet sounds that Mike's formulaic approach could never express.

How about Mikes lyrics on Today?

The result wouldn't be Pet Sounds. Whether that's a good or bad thing is conjecture. I certainly wouldn't change Pet Sounds one bit. But, in the spirit of going along with the fantasy, Michael had proven himself capable of writing good lyrics in the past (The Warmth of the Sun, Don't Run Away, Kiss Me Baby, Let Him Run Wild). I don't think he would have just said no if and when Brian came to him to work on material. Brian needed an interpreter and Michael was the best he had at the time. He may have had disagreements with the material and how it was all put together, sure, but the man wasn't unprofessional or in the habit of refusing to participate with stuff he didn't like.

Still, the bits Michael did contribute to on Pet Sounds are pretty good regardless. Can we imagine I'm Waiting For the Day with someone else's lyrics? I can't, not any more than I could imagine God Only Knows with lyrics by Michael. And the "good night sleep tight" hook on Wouldn't It Be Nice is among his finest contributions to the music. Pet Sounds was one of those situations where the metaphorical alignment of the stars occurred. I'll take it as we received it. It's good enough the way it is.

Not as good as Asher's, frankly. Expressing similar sentiments, but much less eloquently. Mike's lyrics were often witty, and had a certain hip glibness, but with rare exceptions he doesn't seem to have spent much time crafting them, and he also doesn't seem very prone to introspection as an artist.
The lyrics on Today don't really stand up all that well when separated from the music, while at least some of Asher's do. I think that the only consistently great lyricist ever to work with the Beach Boys was Van Dyke Parks, but at least some of Asher's lyrics are as good as one could hope for for those songs.
Some of the better lyrics on Today are about on the same level as some of the lesser lyrics on Pet Sounds (That's Not Me, I'm Waiting For The Day -- which I know Mike's credited on, Here Today -- interestingly all songs with a greater than normal Mike presence for the album...), but I don't think Mike even at his very best was ever capable of a lyric like God Only Knows or Caroline No.

What's interesting to ponder, is what to make of the alternate lyrics to Please Let Me Wonder, which are only present on the unreleased version with Mike on lead vocals.

Did Mike write those set of lyrics, and then did Brian revise them when Brian sang the final released version? Or were the original lyrics all Brian's (which Mike sung), and then Mike revised them for Brian to sing on the final version? Or perhaps the actual events are somewhere in between?

Another interesting thing to ponder, when trying to figure out which little, minor contributions (like the "Good night baby" to WIBN) Mike may have added:

For songs like Here Today, which have an alternate version with Brian singing lead... is it safe to assume that little tweaks like the word "but" that was not present on Brian's version (which is interjected prior to the line "if you're not careful" on Mike's version) were ad-libbed by Mike? Was that Mike's "but"? I can easily imagine that a little tweak like that would have been ad libbed by the lead singer of the song, much in the way that members of the Wrecking Crew would have added a few notes here and there that weren't dictated to them by the song's credited composer.

The question is, does the word "but" (if it's Mike's "but" and not Tony's or Brian's "but") warrant a song co-writing credit anymore than "Good night baby" does? To me, "Good night baby", while slightly more significant, is just a minor ad lib that is hardly worth a co-writing credit in my eyes. And mind you, I like the "Good night baby" bit, and I also like the "but" bit... I think those were good tweaks to those songs.

If that's gonna get a co-writing credit, why weren't ad-libs, like the musician (whose name escapes me) who played on God Only Knows, and suggested the little breakdown part in the middle, worthy of co-writing credits? Where would it end? I'm sure that there had to have been a good deal of Wrecking Crew musicians who, over the years, contributed audible bits and pieces to BB songs (which might well be listeners' favorite parts of those songs), but they have not gotten credit, nor have they seeked out credit. Would Mike object to a slew of Wrecking Crew musicians coming to his doorstep, asking for credit and bucks for their audible ad-libbed musical contributions?

I viewed "good night, sleep tight" on WIBN similar to the crumbs on a cupcake wrapper after you've eaten the cupcake. That may sound harsh, but in terms of that specific song and the power it has, you've heard 2 minutes of amazing music that brings people to tears because it literally hits on every cylinder in terms of what makes a song a timeless classic, and in the fade out whatever happens is pretty much the crumbs after you've eaten the cupcake and the icing, plus whatever the baker might have put in the middle.

Worthy of equal credit? No. My opinion only.

A lot of times when that record was spun on radio going back to the 60's, the DJ would already be pulling the faders down or even starting his on-air patter before or during the delivery of those lines. So the impact to a good many listeners was minimal compared to the 2 minutes or so of the actual song that drew them in.

Agree completely. And again, that's not to say that those lyrics at the end aren't cool - they are. I think most people would agree they are cool. Just not significant.

One thing that would be interesting to figure out, is how many of Mike's credits that he obtained as a result of the lawsuit were similar to just off-the-cuff ad-libs, or minor face-lifting of pre-existing lyrics, as opposed to full Mike lyrics from the ground up. Again, I say this because we could get into the discussion of every Wrecking Crew musician needing credits for minor tweaks to pre-existing musical ideas, and it would never end.

Exactly, Mike's idea of what he contributed and the reality is different.

It starts with just a little glance now
Right away you're thinking 'bout romance now

 ::)

Brian clearly wanted to makes his own artistic statement with Pet Sounds. He must have felt that he himself wouldn't be able to write lyrics that satisfied what he was aiming for. So short of that, by working with Tony he knew that it would be more of a back-and-forth collaboration where he could provide strong direction and guidance. Not to disparage Tony, and of course he rightly deserves his songwriting credits, but in a way it was almost a work-for-hire type of deal, which is what Brian wanted I think. Mike would have had more of his own say if he had written the lyrics, which is neither good or bad in itself, but it would have been less of a singular artistic statement as such. And in that way, I think Tony was the better choice for this project. I just wish Brian would have been able to work with other lyricists on entire albums, since it gives a whole different feel to the music.

Mike contributed lyrics to Pet Sounds (the song), which is the reason why that song has no lyrics.  ;D

I think he was certainly capable of doing it but his instinct for positivity and hit making would have led the project astray.

Good gawd no!!!  "Good night baby...sleep tight baby"?  Not a chance.  No accolades.  No box set.  No 50th anniversary tour.  No way.  No how.  No thank you.

To be fair ... He provided his best lyrics for two songs on the lp.  'Let's Go Away For Awhile' and 'Pet Sounds'.  Thank gawd he stopped there. :smokin

I have to say that, even though Mike was certainly capable of producing more sensitive lyrics, I don't think Pet Sounds would be anything like Pet Sounds had he been the lyricist.

Here's my thinking: I think Brian wanted to explore some subjects that meant expressing a certain personal vulnerability.  I think he needed a lyricist who would roll with those concepts and who wouldn't judge that vulnerability. Mike does not impress me as the kind of guy who can do that. As a matter of fact, he strikes me as something of a bully, and I don't think he would have patience for songs about doubt and insecurity.

It's sad that Brian felt more emotionally safe with a virtual stranger for hire than his own family. But, I think that's what happened.

I agree with that, Cyncie.

Well, I think Brian was also impatient, and Mike was on tour. That was another reason to hire an outside lyricist.
But I agree with the idea that Mike would have tried to inject some more commercial lyrics into PS. Right after IJWMFTT, there would have been "Goin' to Kalamazoo With My Baby".   :-D

Take I Just Wasn't Made for These Times. "No-one wants to help me look for places where new things might be found". Sounds more like something ABOUT Mike than anything that could have been written by him.

And  "O cuando sere? Un dia sere" ("When will I be? One day I will be"). It almost reminds me of Til I Die though from the opposite perspective - the thoughts of an unborn soul contemplating life rather than a living person contemplating mortality.

Myke luHv's song titles for PS:

Side One

Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Surf Again)

You Still See Through Me

That's Not Surf Music

Don't Talk (Put Your Surfboard On My Shoulder)

I'm Waiting For The Surf

Let's Go Cruisin' For Awhile

Surf John B


Side Two

God Only Surfs

I Know There's A Lawsuit

Surf Today

I Just Wasn't Made To Write Music

Surf Sounds

Caroline Surf

I know there's a lawsuit!!! :lol

 :lol