BEACH BOYS’ PARTY! Uncovered and Unplugged

[LeeDempsey]

nothing to be sorry about.  That ('Al Jardine') voice's Dean's

It's Carl Wilson.  

There were several sessions for the Party album in August and September of 1965.  Dean was not present for that particular session.

EDIT: Mic dropping "Boo Ya" GIF deleted out of consideration, but when the information provided by Craig Slowinski (author, liner notes contributor, and Beach Boys sessionographer) is called into question by a poster without any supporting evidence, it annoys me, as it is disrespectful of the hours and hours of research that Craig has put in. It was good to see Alan Boyd, the Beach Boys' official archivist (and who rarely participates in this board), step in to confirm Craig's information.

[silodweller]

May I ask a question or two, without any aggression attached (of course) but rather with a mind filled with a certain amount of frustration?  
 
This is regarding an observation John Manning made earlier in this thread.

Why, oh why do so many topics on this board end up turning ugly?  I completely understand that there are very knowledgeable individuals here who may have dealt with Beach Boys material for a number of years and therefore hold themselves in rather high esteem but I have to point out that after going through a number of topics through the years, whenever someone perhaps less knowledgeable comments, or indeed further enquires as to how or why something was recorded or what was said by whom at certain sessions, then why do some of those highly knowledgeable members take great offense and turn nasty?  Perhaps those board members should reconsider this approach and choose to either address the comment or enquiry in a less hoity manner or simply settle on a "no comment".  Indeed if you feel you are completely satisfied with the information you hold then why make a point of name-calling if someone debates your point?  I understand the annoyance of having someone less informed as it were going on and on about something and never reading what is being said to them but instead continues to jab and cause upheaval, but if someone simply asks along the lines, "Are you sure?" or "Is that REALLY how it happened?" then why not answer them in a decent manner instead of reverting to nastiness? Yes, you're knowledgeable and I for one am grateful to have members on this board like yourselves who take time out to give of their valuable information, etc. but when topics so often end up leaving a bitter taste in your mouth then why should anyone want to continue asking questions, posting their views, or indeed even continue visiting this board?  

Again, I am not trying to cause any problems here with this post.  These are just observations I have made which is why I have posted these questions.  I usually keep pretty much to myself 'round here but let's try to be just a little friendlier on this board, please?  

[Emily]

... if you feel you are completely satisfied with the information you hold then why make a point of name-calling if someone debates your point?  I understand the annoyance of having someone less informed as it were going on and on about something and never reading what is being said to them but instead continues to jab and cause upheaval, but if someone simply asks along the lines, "Are you sure?" or "Is that REALLY how it happened?" then why not answer them in a decent manner instead of reverting to nastiness?

I think in this instance, and in several that I've seen on this board, by the time things got a little nasty the matter was not being debated nor were curious questions being asked. It was more flat contradiction with no argument being presented. See John Cleese here (I got this elsewhere on the board, thank you whomever): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XNkjDuSVXiE
It can be VERY frustrating when you have fairly certain knowledge of something and know you have more expertise than someone and they repeatedly flat-out contradict your assertion without even giving an argument. I agree that the best thing to do if you can't keep your patience is walk away, but that can be difficult in the face of such insulting obstinance.
Note: I claim no expertise on the subject matter at hand, but have faced this on other subjects and find it very trying.
Note 2: The internet is a particularly prickly place.

[Custom Machine]

Hey Custom - check out the link I posted just above, read GuitarFool's thoughts & continue Jim Murphy's post - I think you guys are on the same page.

Thanks for the link, Alan. Checking it out today, I now recall reading that thread when it was new a couple of years ago, and it was informative to reread many of the posts again.

The orientation of the potato chip bags makes it difficult to read what's printed on them, but on close inspection I don't see anything that seems to say Beach Boys Party or resemble a reproduction of the Party album cover, so this seems to be further evidence that no Party album potato chip bags were ever printed and instead some standard 5 cent bags of chips were used for the promo pic with Brian. Plus if the bags did have a reproduction of the Party album cover, it seems that the photographer may have oriented at least one of the bags so that at least part of the Party album cover would be apparent.

The cardboard display Take one Free! Now why don't you buy the Beach Boys Party, Free gift from The Beach Boys, etc is obviously professionally printed, so the mystery remains, was this the only one ever placed in a record store, and just for the BW promo photo, or where other displays and standard issue bags of potato chips sent out to record stores around the county? As someone, I think it was Jim Murphy, stated in the thread Alan Smith previously linked, if a store received 50 small bags of potato chips to be given away free, they wouldn't have lasted long, maybe a few days at best. But apparently no one from back in the day has come forward and publicly stated that they recall seeing and presumably consuming such a free bag of chips.

We know from the Billboard article that Capitol had planned a Party album potato chip promotion, and from this photo that they went to the trouble of printing at least one cardboard display. So perhaps they got as far as printing the displays when it was decided that the promotion with custom bags would be too expensive and they did a promo shoot with BW and standard off the shelf bags. Then perhaps the whole idea was abandoned.

Where did this pic of BW in the record store with the chips originally appear? I noticed in the earlier thread that Guitarfool noted that BW is wearing the exact same clothing in the bookstore photo.

[LeeDempsey]

I'll repeat my post from the other thread, but a number of years ago I had the pleasure of meeting a lady in Jackson, Mississippi who's father had been a Capitol Records sales rep in Southeastern United States the 1960's.  I told her that I was a Beach Boys fan, and she proceeded to tell me a story about a class picnic at her school, and how her father had provided BEACH BOYS PARTY! picnic baskets for the event.  Later I suspected that maybe they were just generic picnic baskets filled with BEACH BOYS PARTY! potato chips, but who knows.

Lee

[CenturyDeprived]

Has anyone ever asked Brian or any other of the Boys about the mythical potato chip bags? If it's food-related, Brian's possibly gonna be more likely to remember!

[mikeddonn]

Someone must know.  Would there be a log kept somewhere? An order book from the supplier who manufactured the chips? Employees who handled them? Record shop owners etc. 

Maybe they ended up in the same landfill site as the SMiLE sleeves!

[Douchepool]

EDIT: Mic dropping "Boo Ya" GIF deleted out of consideration, but when the information provided by Craig Slowinski (author, liner notes contributor, and Beach Boys sessionographer) is called into question by a poster without any supporting evidence, it annoys me, as it is disrespectful of the hours and hours of research that Craig has put in. It was good to see Alan Boyd, the Beach Boys' official archivist (and who rarely participates in this board), step in to confirm Craig's information.

I don't know how anyone could hear Dean Torrence in that bit to begin with. Kind of sad that it took more than one person who actually knows what Carl sounds like to set the record straight.

[Custom Machine]

I'll repeat my post from the other thread, but a number of years ago I had the pleasure of meeting a lady in Jackson, Mississippi who's father had been a Capitol Records sales rep in Southeastern United States the 1960's.  I told her that I was a Beach Boys fan, and she proceeded to tell me a story about a class picnic at her school, and how her father had provided BEACH BOYS PARTY! picnic baskets for the event.  Later I suspected that maybe they were just generic picnic baskets filled with BEACH BOYS PARTY! potato chips, but who knows.

Lee

Or maybe the "baskets" were the BB Party cardboard displays filled with standard 5 cent bags of chips.

Either way, a cool mystery that may never be solved.

[LeeDempsey]

Someone must know.  Would there be a log kept somewhere? An order book from the supplier who manufactured the chips? Employees who handled them? Record shop owners etc. 

Maybe they ended up in the same landfill site as the SMiLE sleeves!

Mike, I think you're on the right track... A few months ago the esteemed Jim Murphy won on eBay a vintage 1965 promotional towel that said "Capitol Records will bring you SUMMER DAYS (and Summer Nights!!!)".  Down in the fine print the copyright notice says "(C) Jack Nadel Intl".  So I did some research on Jack Nadel International, and they seem to have been the major L.A. producer of promotional swag from that era, and they appear to still be in business:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Nadel_International

If someone could get hold of them, I bet their files would have a wealth of information on Beach Boys promotional items -- and maybe some samples?!?

Lee

[Peter Reum]

It is great that Universal is offering vinyl and cd versions of this release. I'd like to thank whoever made that decision.I may be old fashioned, but I like cds or vinyl better than digital downloads.

[Wirestone]

The potato chip mystery is one of the great board sagas of the last couple of years. It's such a fascinating idea -- and the fact that not one has turned up beggars belief. Obviously, that suggests that the bags weren't produced as reported, but it's nearly impossible to prove a negative. So part of me still wonders if -- one day -- someone will find one!

[Custom Machine]

The Nov. 6, 1965 Billboard article stating that 1 million bags of potato chips with the BB Party album cover printed on them will be distributed also mentions "other phases of the Beach Boys promotion" which include "a motion floor merchandiser containing five different albums from the Beach Boys catalog, full color streamers for window displays, and full scale radio and newspaper advertising ..."

Do motion floor merchandisers and full color window display streamers from the BB Party era exist, either in photos or in collections? How about BB Party album newspaper ads?

[mikeddonn]

Someone must know.  Would there be a log kept somewhere? An order book from the supplier who manufactured the chips? Employees who handled them? Record shop owners etc. 

Maybe they ended up in the same landfill site as the SMiLE sleeves!

Mike, I think you're on the right track... A few months ago the esteemed Jim Murphy won on eBay a vintage 1965 promotional towel that said "Capitol Records will bring you SUMMER DAYS (and Summer Nights!!!)".  Down in the fine print the copyright notice says "(C) Jack Nadel Intl".  So I did some research on Jack Nadel International, and they seem to have been the major L.A. producer of promotional swag from that era, and they appear to still be in business:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Nadel_International

If someone could get hold of them, I bet their files would have a wealth of information on Beach Boys promotional items -- and maybe some samples?!?

Lee

Lee, I remember reading about that towel.  Cool item!

What a job that must have been for someone to work for Jack Nadel International!  They might have managed to keep a hold of a lot of those promotional goodies.  .

Hopefully someone can chase up the lead.

[Smilin Ed H]

double post.

[Smilin Ed H]

It looks like Amazon's list price is $19.99. 

Released on Nov 20th, just in time for Christmas......just like 50 years ago.   

Same date as Adele's new album. My daughter and I will both have a good day!

Do young people like Adele? I thought her appeal was to the older generation.

[Emily]

It looks like Amazon's list price is $19.99. 

Released on Nov 20th, just in time for Christmas......just like 50 years ago.   

Same date as Adele's new album. My daughter and I will both have a good day!

Do young people like Adele? I thought her appeal was to the older generation.

I think her appeal is pretty general. My young person acquaintanceship is limited to 8-10 year olds and every girl among them could sing the album 21 straight through.

[TMinthePM]

This release looks to be very nice. The tracks that have come out sans party chatter sound terrific. Too bad this thread has crawled up its own ass looking for potato chips.

[HeyJude]

Apologies for kind of butting into a thread with an insight that is rather tangential. But concerning the Party potato chips, I totally buy that they actually existed, at least in small numbers. I only say this because in more recent years, I've run across several "collectible" items (not BB-related), newly-produced, that within a very short span of time seem to have dropped off the face of the planet and seemingly never existed.

One would think with the online resources at our fingertips, a message board/group of fans devoted to every possible iteration of everything for all time, that something couldn't be mass produced but in a small scale of maybe a few hundred pieces, and then within a year be so obscure as to not be "researchable" online, but I've seen it happen. I own things, things far newer than the "Party" album, that based on any research, would seem to have never existed.

So I buy that those BB chips existed in some form, and perhaps even beyond the one display that was captured in that pic of Brian.

Don't get me wrong, I totally also think it's quite possible that they never existed beyond whatever partial iteration is seen in that one Brian shot.

[HeyJude]

May I ask a question or two, without any aggression attached (of course) but rather with a mind filled with a certain amount of frustration?  
 
This is regarding an observation John Manning made earlier in this thread.

Why, oh why do so many topics on this board end up turning ugly?  I completely understand that there are very knowledgeable individuals here who may have dealt with Beach Boys material for a number of years and therefore hold themselves in rather high esteem but I have to point out that after going through a number of topics through the years, whenever someone perhaps less knowledgeable comments, or indeed further enquires as to how or why something was recorded or what was said by whom at certain sessions, then why do some of those highly knowledgeable members take great offense and turn nasty?  Perhaps those board members should reconsider this approach and choose to either address the comment or enquiry in a less hoity manner or simply settle on a "no comment".  Indeed if you feel you are completely satisfied with the information you hold then why make a point of name-calling if someone debates your point?  I understand the annoyance of having someone less informed as it were going on and on about something and never reading what is being said to them but instead continues to jab and cause upheaval, but if someone simply asks along the lines, "Are you sure?" or "Is that REALLY how it happened?" then why not answer them in a decent manner instead of reverting to nastiness? Yes, you're knowledgeable and I for one am grateful to have members on this board like yourselves who take time out to give of their valuable information, etc. but when topics so often end up leaving a bitter taste in your mouth then why should anyone want to continue asking questions, posting their views, or indeed even continue visiting this board?  

Again, I am not trying to cause any problems here with this post.  These are just observations I have made which is why I have posted these questions.  I usually keep pretty much to myself 'round here but let's try to be just a little friendlier on this board, please?  

While I agree that, on boards I've read over the years where true experts and insiders post, there is occasionally too much weight given to their comments (or rather, more often, disrespect or dismissiveness aimed at some average schmoes on the same board.) I certainly *have* seen insiders and experts be wrong online. I also agree that even when insiders and experts are 100% right and someone else 100% wrong, there is a respectful, restrained way of pointing that out.

However, in the case of this Dean/Carl/Al voice thing, I have to say that a one-liner post such as "nothing to be sorry about.  That ('Al Jardine') voice's Dean's", posted *after* many others have generally politely pointed out why that assertion is wrong, is a rather juvenile, "YouTube comments section"-caliber sort of post. A one-liner post like that insults (and/or is utterly dismissive) of insiders/experts who have disagreed, including several folks who have gone to the trouble of offering posts detailing *why* they disagree instead of offering one-sentence "mic drop" posts, and just in general reeks of internet fanboy flame-caliber debates from the 1990s.

I mean really, you have all these insiders who have listened to the session tapes, read the AFM sheets, spent years *listening* to these voices, and the best post you can offer is a one line "I'm right, I'm right, la la la la" as you run away with your fingers in your ears? I don't think it's wrong to question or debate even the highest of BB authorities here. Even I've politely and cordially challenged an insider or two over the years (I remember an enlightening debate about single mixes and fade-out times for "California Girls" for instance). And I truly have on occasion seen folks too quickly immediately side with an "insider" or "expert" and be a bit too dismissive of "regular" fans/experts (the "Brian says he doesn't use autotune, so shut the f*** up everybody" sort of posts come to mind).

But on this particular issue, I have to say what leads me to not have any empathy for the dissenter who thinks it's Dean's voice is that the folks who are insiders and experts *also* went to the trouble of posting details as to why. They didn't just say "I know Dean's voice, and that isn't Dean, so STFU", etc.

And some of these debates are obviously never going to be definitely solved to some folks' satisfaction. Beatles fans are still debating whether it's John or Paul singing the "aaaaaah" vocal part after Paul's "I went into a dream" section of "A Day in the Life", with Lennon fanboys insisting it's John (which I think a lot of fans understandably initially thought it was), even after some audio sleuthing/forensics and a good listen with an open mind indicates it's probably Paul singing that part.

[Paul J B]

The potato chip mystery is one of the great board sagas of the last couple of years. It's such a fascinating idea -- and the fact that not one has turned up beggars belief. Obviously, that suggests that the bags weren't produced as suggested, but it's nearly impossible to prove a negative. So part of me still wonders if -- one day -- someone will find one!

I totally agree. My other post last page using bubble gum cards as an analogy leads me to think they indeed were NOT mass produced and distributed. The odd thing is, at least one display box was made as it it seen in the photo. Would Capitol have gone through the trouble and expense to have a printer create the display box to hold the chips and then scrap the idea? Possibly...yes. We know a ton of Smile covers were printed for the album that was never finished. What potato chip factory might have at least tentatively had a contract to produce the chips? Has anyone dug into that? In 1965 there were not dozens of craft potato chip makers. We need our own Jim Rockford or Sherlock Holmes.

[Marty Castillo]

However, in the case of this Dean/Carl/Al voice thing, I have to say that a one-liner post such as "nothing to be sorry about.  That ('Al Jardine') voice's Dean's", posted *after* many others have generally politely pointed out why that assertion is wrong, is a rather juvenile, "YouTube comments section"-caliber sort of post. A one-liner post like that insults (and/or is utterly dismissive) of insiders/experts who have disagreed, including several folks who have gone to the trouble of offering posts detailing *why* they disagree instead of offering one-sentence "mic drop" posts, and just in general reeks of internet fanboy flame-caliber debates from the 1990s.

Spot on.

[37!ws]

I applaud HeyJude; excellent way of putting things.

Now, to add my two cents...

I have to go see my dermatologist. Why? Because I've really damaged the skin on my scalp from all the head scratching I'm doing over people on this board dissing this release...oh, yes, and without even hearing it. Was R"l"aaBBP! a Brian masterpiece? No, and I don't think it was ever meant to be. It was admittedly rush-recorded and rush-released to get Capitol off the band's back in terms of getting a new album out in time for Christmas. A live album was suggested, but since they released Beach Boys Concert the year before, I think Party! was a very creative compromise. In the end, it's a really, really fun listen and a concept that about 18 years later would be embraced by MTV.

But what really makes me scratch my head...flash back to 1994. The capitol twofers were gone and replaced by single-album CDs with no liner notes and no bonus tracks. All the albums from Sunflower through The Beach Boys were out of print. Over the next couple of years archival projects were announced and scrapped. (Remember how circa 1998 there was supposed to be a hits compilation that contained a stereo mix of "All Summer Long"?) The Pet Sounds Sessions was delayed over a year. We were just aching for new product. We were screaming for the Capitol twofers to come back and for the 1970-and-later albums to be put back in print.

I think the flood gates started to open in 1997 when The Pet Sounds Sessions was finally released. In 1998 we had Endless Harmony and Ultimate Christmas. In 2000 all the albums from Sunflower through The Beach Boys were remastered and reissued. The following year the Capitol twofers were brought back into print with new masters. (although at least the 1965 twofer sounded like garbage.) We had Hawthorne, CA.

And more recently, we've had two, IMHO, incredibly well done box sets. In 2013 and 2014 we had archival copyright extension releases, one of which had a lot of material that wasn't even in danger of copyright expiration but was, IMHO, quite generous of BRI, to let us have.

So now we get a very, very nice collection of Party! outtakes....and Smiley Smilers are outraged. Seriously? Man, I can't wait to hear this stuff. And I can imagine the licensing hell BRI must have gone through to get the publishing rights to some of the songs on here.

I'm not saying we all have to go buy it and love it, but FFS, a release of previously unreleased material shouldn't offend people (unless it's the original mix of "Hey Little Tomboy" or "Lazy Lizzie").

And I wonder how many people who are offended by this release somehow didn't mind plunking down $20 - $25 per CD for Unsurpassed Masters Vol. 10.

[Custom Machine]

So now we get a very, very nice collection of Party! outtakes....and Smiley Smilers are outraged. Seriously? Man, I can't wait to hear this stuff. And I can imagine the licensing hell BRI must have gone through to get the publishing rights to some of the songs on here.

I'm not saying we all have to go buy it and love it, but FFS, a release of previously unreleased material shouldn't offend people (unless it's the original mix of "Hey Little Tomboy" or "Lazy Lizzie").

And I wonder how many people who are offended by this release somehow didn't mind plunking down $20 - $25 per CD for Unsurpassed Masters Vol. 10.

This thread contains many positive comments about this release. Only two people expressed lack of much interest. I don't see any comments from Smiley Smilers who sounded outraged. A couple of people didn't like the cover, but personally I think it looks great, paying homage to the original but done in a way that no one will mistake it from the original.

I'm really looking forward to BB Party Uncovered and Unplugged plan to purchase both the CD and the vinyl. I do hope there are very few people who will fail to support this release because they have similar master tapes audio on Unsurpassed Masters 10.

[HeyJude]

I certainly have no animosity towards this release; I welcome it. But just for me personally, it’s just a few notches above having, say, the uncut Hite Morgan tapes or something. It’s interesting historically, it’s a good thing to have in the collection and in the archive as a student of the band. But with the exception of maybe the first one or two BB albums, it’s probably the last 60s or 70s studio album I’d prioritize to have a nice deluxe two-disc presentation for.

We should have had packages like this for “All Summer Long” and “Today” and “Sunflower”, etc. And hopefully we still will perhaps!

I can’t imagine anyone at BRI thought “Party” should be the first album (excepting PS and Smile) to be explored in depth and put out a deluxe, physical CD package. It’s a nice cool bonus as a result of the “copyright extension” thing.