The Smiley Smile Message Board

Both Cali guys, both massively successful. Which one is still relevant?  Which one is a magnet?

Both kinda spikey and litigious. Both made major contributions to their bands, but Mike's band made more of a major contribution full stop and the Lovester wrote the lyrics to Warmth of the Sun, and if that was all he did, he'd be ahead of ol' Don. To be honest, though I have all their albums, these days I can only take the Eagles in a kind of greatest hits plus way any more. Good singing aside, there's a samey emptiness about a lot of their stuff, but then that's the same for so many bands. Relevant to the current music scene? I terms of influence, if people were prepared to remove the blinkers? Love, hands down. In terms of still producing relevant material? Henley, without a doubt.

Warmth of the Sun is top shelf. But Desperado, as Henley presents it in concert, is the clear winner to this day.

Your comparison is flawed. Henley is a native Texan.  The Eagles were far more succeesful over a longer period of time.  Add to that a sucessful solo career. Yes, he's douchey, but he is far more talented than Mr. Love.

Used to like that one a lot, but now I find it maudlin, like a TV movie starring Jane Seymour.

I don't see them as too similar beyond that both would gladly embrace getting rich via corporate rock --as would I(sign me up). :-)
Plus Henley likes to play up his Texas roots here and there so I view him more as a transplant.

The Eagles and Geffen mastered corporate rock and though hollow their musicianship his really high.
I had to learn some of the guitar parts and have a lot of respect for all their talents.
I also read the Felder book which was okay.

They sang harmonies well too but with simpler arrangements.

dupe post

Henley is a great orator, a particularly meticulous wordsmith. Both men possess voices that would be among the most recognizable in Rock and Roll.

Their upbringings are very different. Henley was an only child from a small town in East Texas, Love from a large family in California. Both of their fathers ran their own businesses though.

Henley gradually increased his role in Eagles, primarily as he and Frey started to write together. I think Don was far more interested in expanding his musical horizons than Mike ever was.

Don always relied on musical partnerships to deliver his vision, to great success, whether it be Frey, Danny Kortchmar, or Stan Lynch. Mikes collaborations with Terry Melcher, and Dean Torrence were less fruitful.

Both lead vocalists for arguably America's biggest bands.
Both have their moments where it appears they might be a little 'difficult'

Further to Dave's question, of relevance. Henley's latest release Cass County, was number 1 on the Billboard Country Charts (Number 3 on the 200)

That's impressive, in this day and age.

myKe luHv was the least cool dressing like a clown, a man in a long robe, and a flashy pimp. His solo efforts were not only substandard, but embarrassing. Henley on the other hand, blended well with the times, stayed relevant, was a great musician and had a top notch voice unlike the greedster.

There's NO comparison.  Still relevant?  Don by a C O U N T R Y mile.  He has a [relatively] new album [country] out and his success is just the other side of a week or so ago.  WAY better writer and composer and he can play musical instruments.  AND he has a sense of humour regarding himself.

"What has 3 legs and an asshole on TOP?  A drum stool."...Don Henley.

His solo career has also yielded actual success.  [in 2 centuries including THIS one.]

This was easy.  Warmth of the Sun vs a body of work that puts most men to shame?  There's no comparison.  0.  Nada.  Not a sniff.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only fact which makes the question marginally legit?  Mike had something Don never had...Brian.  ...[plus Carl, Denny, Al, Bruce, David, Blondie, Ricky...and for a short bit Glen.]

I would have to say that Add Some wins this dubious post by a country mile. The only similarity I can see between the two is the fact that Henley also occasionally acts like an asshole .

Darian Sahanaja's much circulated recollection let's us know what Brian Wilson thinks... "We were in the dressing room at this fundraiser in New York, and Don Henley and Timothy Schmidt from The Eagles walked in. And Timothy was very nice, but Don was just kind of aloof and walking around the room. And finally, after a few minutes of chatting, Don pulls out a copy of Pet Sounds on CD that he wants Brian to sign.

So Brian grabs it and he signs, "To Don, thanks for all the great music." And he's handing it back to Don, but before Don can take it, he grabs it back and he crosses out "great" and puts "good music." [Laughs.] And the thing is, there's no irony there. He's not being funny. He's really thinking, "I wrote 'great,' but I don't think it's great. But it's good. It's good music." And he handed it back to Don, and it was perfect."

Who was the better replacement bassist? Whose glue was musically stronger?  Who was the glue?  for their respective groups?



Oh no Buckethead Just died.
.

  Glenn Frey is the Mike Love of The Eagles. 

Henley? Love? Relevant? Magnet? I don't know.  What I do know is that I like about five Eagles songs - Lyin' Eyes, Desperado, Peaceful Easy Feeling, Take It Easy, the one about the new kid in school, maybe another one or so- but I love about 500 Beach Boys songs. If there are that many.

Well, I guess after 2012 there's another connection between them...  ;D



Love not only caught his bandmates off guard with his press release stating he would no longer be requiring their services once the reunion tour wrapped, he also inflamed feelings in the Eagles camp when he explained to The Times his reason for dispatching the other original Beach Boys.

“You’ve got to be careful not to get overexposed,” Love said last week when the group members gathered at the Grammy Museum for the opening of a new Beach Boys 50th anniversary exhibit and an evening salute to their musical legacy. “There are promoters who are interested [in more shows by the reunited lineup], but they’ve said, ‘Give it a rest for a year.’ The Eagles found out the hard way when they went out for a second year and wound up selling tickets for $5.”

That won Love no fans among the Eagles, with whom the Beach Boys have toured in the past.

“Two things that we know for certain:  Mr. Love will never allow the facts get in the way of his ramblings and he will never miss an opportunity to regurgitate his venom,” the Eagles’ spokesman wrote in a letter to Love’s publicist Jay Jones, which was copied to The Times. “Lest we forget, during his acceptance speech at the Beach Boys' Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, which was ostensibly about the importance of harmony and how the Beach Boys ‘love all people,’ Mr. Love attacked Paul McCartney and Diana Ross for not being in the room.  He then went on to say that ‘Mick Jagger has always been [afraid] to get on the stage with the Beach Boys."

“Since 1994 when the Eagles reunited, they have performed more than 600 shows worldwide,” the letter continued. “Neither the band nor its reps are aware of any promoter accusing them of being ‘overexposed.’ Regarding Mr. Love’s statement about Eagles tickets being sold for $5, according to our records that did happen on June 21, 1975, when the band performed at Wembley Stadium with the Beach Boys.”


http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/28/entertainment/la-et-ms-beach-boys-50th-anniversary-reunion-tour-eagles-20120928

 :lol :lol :lol

I'll take the first part of that action.   :brow

I don't know much about the Eagles, but I think Don Henley writes music as well as lyrics and has had some solo hits, right?

You many know Boys Of Summer...he's more a melody and words guy.

The Dude sums it up for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JlmvtAHhnc

Ah yes, Boys of Summer. Never really liked it, but it certainly was successful.

and Marty Castillo - well, that settles it - no Eagles for me!

That's an awesome story, and I can see Henley being totally cool with that. He's always been careful to point out that he feels bands like The Beatles and The Stones are on a different level than Eagles.

Why bother dragging another band into an interview? Never understood why artists would do it. Plant made a comment about Eagles touring as well, a while back.
I remember Henley being critical of  the CSNY2K tour being too long a 3 hours. But I think the Eagles ended up doing shows of a similar length on their Farewell I outing.

My thoughts exactly. Hated the Eagles as a 70s teen. Hotel California still causes shudders.

Comparing Mike Love and Don Henley is apples and oranges. Different careers and backgrounds. Mike Love was already a pro by the time Henley was getting started.

I'd say Henley was more talented, Mike has been on cruise control for about 40 years now.  Mike's still got it, though, and Henley's lost a step in my opinion. 

My favorite thing Henley ever did was Boys of Summer, Ironically. 

Show me an at least equal solo by Mike Love than this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCdjvTTnzDU

Great older song sure, but not really along your original thread question.


I can't decide if this is trying to stir up anti Mike feeling or not.

In terms of the bands they represent----and this is when the word "coat-tails" comes to mind----Mike is relevant.

In all fairness, I've come to appreciate The Eagles more in recent years, but still...

Mike matches it on Meant For You off of Friends matches it though his part is brief he's not nasal at all. I was surprised to learn it was Mike.
https://youtu.be/Pp9P0mOXfOM (https://youtu.be/Pp9P0mOXfOM)

There are far better Eagles songs than this, though. Seriously, when I hear it, what comes to mind is a bad 90s TV movie where the leading man has long hair, a beard, long coat and broods rather than acts - and the supporting cast is made up of fat men with beards who think they look authentic.  You keep hoping the Indians'll come and wipe them out and the movie'll finish early.  Not doubting Don's talent, but I'll take Best of My Love, Witchy Woman, Take it to the Limit or New Kid in Town over this, In fact, I'll take all the Desperado album over this - and I think it's their strongest and most consistent. Don's more relevant than Mike to our times and the fact he's still writing great material is, well, great. Mike, after all, has written little of note since Holland, BUT I do think our boy is in the pantheon of greats for the great songs he has contributed to in the past, vocally and lyrically. And yeah, I think Warmth of the Sun is a better sing than Desperado.

Is either really relevant to any but a small core group of fans of their original band and is either really magnetic at all?
Maybe they are; I don't claim to know who's pinned up on all teenagers' walls and what name's on the lips of club patrons everywhere.

This about nails it

Now Glenn Frey has died. I feel horrible.

Wow! :o

Bad freakin' news.  REALLY bad.  The worst.  What a start to 2016!!! :o

Total Shock.  Frey was always my favorite Eagle. Saw them in April and he put on a great show. Reminds me of the day Carl died. Gut punch.

Sad. It seemed like Davy Jones passing started a cascade.

Speaking of Mr Jones...

Dale Griffin, drummer for rock group Mott The Hoople, has died aged 67.
He was a founder member of the group, best known for classic tracks Roll Away The Stone and All The Young Dudes.
The latter was written and produced by David Bowie, who sang backing vocals on the track.


http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35342699


Right about the gut punch southbay. While not really a fan of the Eagles, there will be many taking it hard.

For years I only knew Dale as the producer of some of my favourite John Peel sessions like Nirvana and Pulp-it was only a couple of years ago that I found out he was Mott's drummer.

Ye gods----cascade is the word. I hope the year picks up soon...

R.I.P., sir.

 Perfect analogy.  I couldn't agree more.   My sentiments exactly.      His rants against former band mate s over the years, firing and damning his band mates,   Arrogantly going forward singing his prized little favorite tunes and raking in the money.........

Yes I know he is now departed.   Doesn't change my opinion.

Desperado is pure hokum.  It was Puddy's favorite tune.  Nuff said.

Ohhhh Witchaay woman.

Ever since I was young, the music of the Eagles made me car sick. It might have been Don Henley's voice, because "The Boys of Summer" had the same effect. So yeah, ya know, to a certain extent, The Dude abides.

That said, those guys were/are pros. Tightest band ever, in some ways, as any one who has ever attempted to cover an Eagles song in a bar band knows. Great vocal blend-- one of the best ever, whichever incarnation. Of course, their vocal arrangements had nothing on the Wilsons.

They didn't have enough farty synths, either.

*I vote for Don Henley*

EDIT: I'm watching "The History of the Eagles" and I love Glenn Frey with all of my heart and Don is pretty badass, too.

Ya...I think Henley takes way too much heat for Frey's shortcomings.  The Eagles have sold LOADS of units...and rhey've put a LOT of bums into a huge number of seats.  Their sales...especially over these past 20 years or so are as good as anyone has managed so to put them down on a song by song basis argues unsuccessfully against the facts.  I like their music, or at least most of it, a lot.   Some of it is simply outstanding.  The main vocalist and a principal writer?  ALL along the way...Don Henley.

That said I prefer the Beach Boys to the Eagles most of the time.  I have never been interested to search out a community board dealing with the Eagles.  I think Bernie, Randy and oh-so-obviously Don Felder all got a really raw deal from the core guys...especially from the dearly departed.  BUT...THIS thread is about Don and Mike.  Don beats Mike at every turn.  There's no contest.  It's a cakewalk...although there are plenty of Mike's leads and original vocals which propel some songs I love to a higher plateau.

The [entire] Beach Boys with Mike...works/worked well for me....at least until 1973 in terms of their recorded efforts involving Mike Love.   'That's Why God Made the Radio' was a better than average lp especially compared to their collective group efforts from the mid 70s on.  W/O the whole contingent though?...and left to his own devices  ...  Henley just absolutely cleans Love's clock.  Thoroughly.  Totally.  Completely.

Agreed, Lee, but let's face it, luHv's "clock" wasn't that difficult to clean by any means. By being stuck in the 60's along with a very lean range of talent, the shine on that timepiece has to be quite bright from continuous scrubbings.

OSD!!!!!!

Frey said it himself...without Henley, Eagles were Air Supply.

Please explain this weird post.  Who the f is Purdy? If you want to be so cryptic, please do it in a way that isn't so above our collective heads. MTG I think you are
stodgy.

I think he's referring to Puddy from Seinfeld.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZrCLF-sZag

Except that Love carries on without Wilson and in the Eagles case Frey did not carry on without Henley. Frey and Henley both fired Felder and Frey and Henley both carried on singing and raking in money. As they should--they wrote and sang the songs. It would be akin to Love and Wilson firing Blondie Chaplin (non original expert guitarist) and continuing to carry on the band.

Still not a perfect analogy as Chaplin didn't write the BB's most well known song. Felder on the other hand was the main guy behind Hotel California.

Unfortunately, with Henley, the Eagles were the Eagles.

Ba dum dum. Thanks, folks. I'll be here all week.  :lol

The firing of Felder was more like the firing of Al Jardine since he owned 33% of the Eagles.

I suspect that his treatment ended up being very expensive for Frey and Henley

Expensive, but compared to the revenues generated post Felder, probably a shrewd business move. By my count, Three mayor tours, a live DVD that sold big time, a number 1 album, etc.

With Felder out, and Walsh and Schmidt 'non owners', Henley and Frey raked it in.

Felder did get a giant pay day after his court case ruled in his favor.  But, yeah, he and the other Eagles were equal members of the group by contract according his book.

Also like Al he was always hoping that the main songwriter would write with him and get more of his compositions on an album.

Felder is my fav. musician in that group. He has a very smooth guitar style. The book was okay, I had wanted more info on their recording process & gear.

LOL. I love Air Supply though. Russell Hitchcock is one of the best singers.

When I saw Eagles for the first time in '94, Felder was the one who impressed me the most. And I had been a huge Henley fan, and great admirer of Walsh and Frey. But Felder showed himself to be a most versatile and amazing musician.

Henley said "the Eagles started as a democracy and became a benevolent dictatorship". You kinda see both sides of the coin here. On paper, Felder was justified in wanting what was legally, his fair share. On the other side, Frey and Henley founded the group, were the primary singers and songwriters, and were far superior in those categories to Felder.

Eagles were a better band with Felder. Stewart Smith is great, but I just feel Felder gave them more of an edge.

Agree with that completely. My only point is that Henley and Frey continuing the Eagles sans Felder is not anything like Mike Love continuing the Beach Boys without B Wilson ( and/or A Jardine).

Eh, I think it's apples and oranges, really. I'm guessing Don Felder played a greater percentage of Eagles concerts over the years than Brian Wilson did with the Beach Boys. I would love to see Al and Brian (and David) playing with Mike and Bruce, I just don't think it's in the cards.

I've enjoyed all of the Seinfeld and Lebowski references in this thread!

Felder still gets paid from the touring "Eagles"!

It wasn't Puddy.

Has anyone seen a comparison in the way Mike and Glenn talk? I don't know what it is but its the sweeping, head movement kind of speech they both have that makes me see one in the other. I'm not saying its a reflection of similar personalities but it's just something I've noticed, particularly in the document about the Eagles that kind of made Glenn look like a dick  :lol Joe Walsh was their Dennis with a happier ending....

Timothy B Schmit would have been a good touring musician for the Beach Boys. He's a great harmony singer.

I don't see how you can compare the two at all.  If anything, I would compare Don Henley to Brian Wilson, not Mike  Love.  Don Henley had great success with the Eagles and also as a solo performer.  He can play multiple instruments, has a literature degree and spouts out lyrics like nobody's business (he's also got a surly personality).  Mike Love is a ditty writer who was given parts to sing by Brian.  It's a no-contest.

Exactomondo! 3 whoots for the batchelor.  :woot :woot :woot

Biggest factor in the differences between Love and Henley are that Henley (and The Eagles) have always been super cautious and careful w/ their legacy and image for better or worse. I'm a huge Eagles fan and a huge Beach Boys fans and I have to say the BB's made far more embarrassing choices through the years than The Eagles. Granted, both bands are completely different in a lot of ways yet have a striking amount of similarities with band dysfunction, etc.

Let me preface this with, I have a huge guilty pleasure for the 1980s-1990s Beach Boys cheese. I'm a child of the 80s and this was my introduction to the band. That being said, the Eagles dodged a huge bullet by disbanding between 1981-1994, the individual members may have some of the 1980s cheese to their credit, but the Eagles have none. This also built up huge demand. With constant touring, the Beach Boys have never had pent up demand.

Quite true, but in the decade between the birth of The Beach Boys and the start of The Eagles, so much had changed. California Rock had become an industry. True The Beach Boys continue to make questionable decisions, but the whole birth of Eagles was more methodical...Geffen sketching out the future of the band in his sauna, lol. Eagles benefited greatly from Asylum and the FM culture that was nowhere to be found when The Beach Boys started.

Yep. I've been trying to think of *any* self-contained rock bands (writing their own material, both singing and playing) that had any kind of success in the US before the Beach Boys, and the closest I can think of is the Crickets. I can't think of any others before the Beatles made it the new norm -- there were vocal groups, instrumental groups, and lead-singer-plus-backing-band things, but no other "rock bands" as we'd now think of them.

Any rock band formed after about 1966 or 67 had an idea of cool, and credibility, and a career path, that didn't exist when the Beach Boys started. The BBs will have thought of themselves as entertainers first and foremost, though several members obviously also thought of themselves (rightly) as artists. People who started not long at all after them will have had the opposite set of priorities. Understanding that makes the parts of the band's career that now look strange a lot more comprehensible -- they started out in a world where "success in showbiz" meant Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis, not Led Zeppelin.

If you noodge the 'rock' over towards 'folk' a bit there are some. Doesn't change the point of your post though, which is a good one.

Oh yes -- and this is one of the reasons I think Al is so important to the band. The way he tells it, at least, it was his idea for them to form a group, and given his tastes he will undoubtedly have been thinking of the Kingston Trio/Weavers model of singers accompanying themselves, rather than the Four Freshmen style vocal group Brian might have gone for, the doo-wop group that Mike would have gone for, or the surf instrumental band Carl or David might have wanted. Certainly Surfin' owes more to the Kingston Trio than to Dick Dale or the Marcels.
Of course, the band would incorporate all those elements, but the folk group model is, I think, the only one that would have had the flexibility to accommodate them all, and I'm fairly convinced that that aspect comes from Al.

It really was a felicitous melding of influences, wasn't it? I'd been conscious of the musical melding, but not really the practical side of it in this way. Thanks for your post. It's broadened my perspective on the BB's influence and ground-breaking. (ground-breakingness?)

Your statement that 'Surfin' is more Kingston Trio than Dick Dale is an interesting one, and I never thought about it in those terms. Fascinating, and perhaps you are correct that Al's contribution to the direction of the band should be examined further.

Irving Azoff 1, BB's "Mgt" 0

The Long Run was The Eagles SIP

"Heartache Tonight" was, in many ways, the Eagles' "Goin' To The Beach".

TLR sold 8 million units...SIP sold about 8 :lol

And that's being generous indeed.  ::)

Wow, that's mean.  Glenn's turning over in his fresh grave.

I'm really hoping M&B leave Goin to the Beach out of their set this year.  MIC is almost three years old, so its not "new" anymore. 

Besides, if it wasn't good enough for the KTSA album, why is it good enough for a setlist?

Personally I think it's better than about three quarters of that album.I don't think there's a particularly strong correlation between the material the band chose for their albums and their worthwhile material. The song always goes down fairly well,

I will agree that it's better than 75% of KTSA, but that's really not saying much. 

It blends OK with the surf / beach set in the beginning of the concerts, but I'd rather see it swapped out for an early album track, or even something California Calling or Beaches in Mind.  (No, I'm not joking, I think both are better songs). 

I certainly think California Calling a better song, but I think it unlikely that Mike would include a song primarily written by Al and with no songwriting input from himself, which wasn't a hit and isn't a particular hardcore fan favourite. And given his antipathy to That's Why God Made The Radio I can't see Beaches In Mind ever being included either.
You know what would fit quite well in that place, was a hit, and is a Mike-led song that they haven't done in nearly forty years? Almost Summer. It's also quite a catchy track.

I'd be fine with that. 

In my opinion, TWGMTR is, by far, the best Beach Boys album since Holland.  It's a shame that neither camp has been including songs from the album in their sets.

I'd call it the best since LA -- I think Love You and LA are both better. Mike's band has been doing Isn't It Time a fair bit -- I saw them do it at three of the five shows I've seen them do since the end of the 2012 tour, though I don't know how often they do it in the US. I can understand them not doing more, though, given that Mike's not a very prominent vocalist on the album, and other than Isn't It Time his leads are on the weakest tracks.
I suspect Brian's more interested in doing No Pier Pressure songs, though I do think it's odd that he doesn't do anything at all from it.

How about myKe's leads are the weakest on TWGMTR?  That sounds like the real issue.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  As I'm not a huge fan of Love You.  LA is a very good album, but that fact that 1/4 of the album is wasted on the overlong disco track, I'll still put TWGMTR above it.

I know Brian did PCH and Summer's Gone for the BW and Friends DVD, so I was hoping it would be on the NPP Tour.  Oh well.  

Yeah, perhaps The Long Run was more their KTSA. Initially, I was going to say MIU but there are at least three good tracks on MIU

Best since Holland, or even longer.

Except that The Long Run LP had THREE massive hits and KTSA and MIU did not whatsoever. I love The Long Run and is maybe my favorite Eagles LP. Not a valid comparison...

One thing that makes a comparison difficult is that The Long Run came in the wake of the massive success of Hotel California. I can't think of a comparable scenario for a Beach Boys album. SMiLE following up Good Vibrations? But SMiLE never made it out the door. Smiley Smile after Pet Sounds? 15 Big Ones after Endless Summer?

Whoah. The sound of feathers ruffled. Komomo was a massive hit and it was stinkeroo. So what? The THREE massive hits on The Long Run are nothing to write home about and the album was a severe disappointmentl. Their worst album by far and I'll still take MIU over it.

The Eagles did a lot more with less talent than the Beach Boys ever did, mostly because they had strong leadership in Henley and Frey. The Beach Boys lacked that due to Brian's health issues and timidity and Mike's lack of songwriting skills.  The Eagles' music can't touch the Beach Boys at their best, of course, it's good music, not great music, as Biran noted. But they ran a tighter ship, that's for certain.

Don Henley has a lot more talent than ML, but he's every bit of a creep. The difference is that he pretty much was the main guy in the Eagles, whereas ML is the #2 guy at most in the Beach Boys if Brian is around, and if Carl was still alive he'd be #3.

And if Dennis was still with us, myKe luHv would(still) be in the sewer.

Actually Mike looks more like #2.

The 4 hour special on CNN tonight had so many reflections of the Beach Boys careers it was almost astounding. What an excellent program from start to the In Memoriam for Glenn Fey.

To Compare ANYTHING that the Eagles EVER recorded to summer in pair of dice is merely way-over-toasted bull sh*t.  Get real.

 :h5

 Seriously. One's as vacuous as the other with some good singing on both.