SMiLE release thoughts from a returnee and some questions for the scholars

[18thofMay]

Also it should be noted that the press release does not say SMiLE was canceled. It actually states very clearly that it was to be "shelved" and makes a distinction between the two.

And the vocal element of Smile was not present during most of April and early May. What are we left with in 2011?? All the tracks!! But not all the vocals!!

[Jeff]

Also it should be noted that the press release does not say SMiLE was canceled. It actually states very clearly that it was to be "shelved" and makes a distinction between the two.

I don't know about "shelved," but the term "scrapped" was certainly used.

"Every beautifully designed, finely wrought, inspirationally welded piece of music made these last months by Brian has been scrapped."

There's no implication there that Brian would be coming back to Smile in the days, weeks, months or years ahead.

[Chris Brown]

Not for nothing, but "Dada" has the same project number on the session worksheets as all of the other Smile sessions - maybe it doesn't mean anything by itself, but that's how it gets lumped into the time period with everything else.  There's always the possibility that they just wanted a project number to throw on there, or Diane just assumed that it was for Smile.  

As far as the cancellation goes, maybe Brian told Taylor the project was scrapped, had a momentary idea to revive it by working on "Dada," but (as usual) his enthusiasm for the project died again very quickly.

[Cam Mott]

It says it was "srapped" and it was in the May 6th iss not the 5th like I said.

Let's put it another way, what is the evidence that SMiLE was not scrapped before May 6? What is the evidence that ILTSDD was to even be on the SMiLE album?

[Cam Mott]

Not for nothing, but "Dada" has the same project number on the session worksheets as all of the other Smile sessions - maybe it doesn't mean anything by itself, but that's how it gets lumped into the time period with everything else.  There's always the possibility that they just wanted a project number to throw on there, or Diane just assumed that it was for Smile.  

As far as the cancellation goes, maybe Brian told Taylor the project was scrapped, had a momentary idea to revive it by working on "Dada," but (as usual) his enthusiasm for the project died again very quickly.

I don't have that type of documentation for those sessions but I believe that project number continued on through Smiley even after Brothers was supposedly the label. So I don't think that is a help unless all of Smiley was actually recorded for SMiLE. Just kidding.

[18thofMay]

Taylor was a stooge for The Beatles..A mind gangster

[Cam Mott]

Of course, there is Andrew, who has said it on his site. So, I have a feeling that when he wakes up he will wade in and explain why ILTSDD is a SMiLE recording.

[Cam Mott]

Taylor was a stooge for The Beatles..A mind gangster

I think at that time Taylor was the BBs [and Beatles] former press agent and he was a correspondent for several music and teen mags/rags and on the committee for Monterey Pop.

[18thofMay]

Of course, there is Andrew, who has said it on his site. So, I have a feeling that when he wakes up he will wade in and explain why ILTSDD is a SMiLE recording.

I hope so!!

[Chris Brown]

Not for nothing, but "Dada" has the same project number on the session worksheets as all of the other Smile sessions - maybe it doesn't mean anything by itself, but that's how it gets lumped into the time period with everything else.  There's always the possibility that they just wanted a project number to throw on there, or Diane just assumed that it was for Smile.  

As far as the cancellation goes, maybe Brian told Taylor the project was scrapped, had a momentary idea to revive it by working on "Dada," but (as usual) his enthusiasm for the project died again very quickly.

I don't have that type of documentation for those sessions but I believe that project number continued on through Smiley even after Brothers was supposedly the label. So I don't think that is a help unless all of Smiley was actually recorded for SMiLE. Just kidding.

That could very well be - all I've got in front of me are some of the Smile session worksheets (from LLVS), so I'm sure there are others out there who would know better than I.  We'll see what AGD has to say on the subject!

[Cam Mott]

Even if by some fluke I turned out to be right, ILTSDD, Tones, possibly Vegetables, etc. could be included as 'tweener tracks.

[Jay]

Ok, I can't keep up with all the threads about this. Having not read this entire thread, I hope what I am going to say hasn't been talked to death already. 

I think that whoever compiles this set shouldn't go past 1967 for material. I also think that there should be one cd reserved for presenting music "as is". That means no second half of Surf's Up. The track should end abruptly, where work on the song ended. I know, it won't make the song sound "complete". But historical integrity should be taken into consideration. That also means no lead vocal on Surf's Up. Same goes for "Cabinessence", "I Wanna Be Around", "I'm In Great Shape", and any other song that I may be forgetting at the moment. 

Having said that, I think that there should be a cd of "experiments". They could try to synch Brian's vocal from the "studio demo" of "Surf's Up" with the backing track of "part 1" for example. They could also use the "studio demo" for the second half of "Surf's Up as well. They could also synch Brian's vocal on the "demo" of "Barnyard" with the backing track. They could also try the same with "I'm In Great Shape".

One thing I think should NOT be done in any circumstance is "manipulation" of the original recordings. Meaning, no looping of sections that weren't meant to be looped, and no "artificial lengthening" of songs to make them longer than they were intended to be. However, this raises at least two major questions(there may be more that I'm forgetting at the moment). Should Carl's 1968 vocal of "Cabinessence" be put on the 1966(?) track? Does that fit the "experiment theme", as I have discussed above? Or is it "manipulation"? The same goes with "Do You Like Worms?". On the 1993 box set, there are "backing vocals" in the melody where the second verse would go. Should they also be in the melody where the first verse would go? Is there any indication that there would have been backing vocals being sung as Brian or Carl sang the verses? If not, would that count as "manipulating" the song?

[SMiLEY]

Hey all! SMiLEY has returned after about five years away.

In the aftermath of BWPS, I was not so much burned-out on Brian, and SMiLE, and the Beach Boys as I was just tired of talking about it, or arguing which was just as often the case, and I really got tired of political rants.

But, good old SMiLE has brought me back. From what I've seen in this thread, not much has changed - lots of opinions, and everybody demanding that SMiLE be done their way.  Haven't seen too much in the way of
politics yet, thankfully. Anyway, my .02 worth --

I couldn't give two hoots about the so-called running order on Diane Rovell's list, there was so much done after it was written that it is useful only in being a snapshot of what might have been in December '66, but the album continued to evolve after it, and I believe the running order could have been different on any given day before May 6, 1967. All I care about is that all the tracks be released as exhaustively as possible (multiple mixes, different versions -- I want them all!). Judging from Mark L's comments -- I have high hopes that is exactly what will happen. If Brian is happy with it, I see no reason anyone else should feel differently.

Anyway -- it's good to be back.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think Brian told Taylor he'd had enough and was canning Smile then - being Brian - changed his mind while the band were touring Europe and had another crack. And then gave up. Twilight's last gleaming.

or, alternatively - because I damn well say so !

[buddhahat]

Hey all! SMiLEY has returned after about five years away.

In the aftermath of BWPS, I was not so much burned-out on Brian, and SMiLE, and the Beach Boys as I was just tired of talking about it, or arguing which was just as often the case, and I really got tired of political rants.

But, good old SMiLE has brought me back. From what I've seen in this thread, not much has changed - lots of opinions, and everybody demanding that SMiLE be done their way.  Haven't seen too much in the way of
politics yet, thankfully. Anyway, my .02 worth --

I couldn't give two hoots about the so-called running order on Diane Rovell's list, there was so much done after it was written that it is useful only in being a snapshot of what might have been in December '66, but the album continued to evolve after it, and I believe the running order could have been different on any given day before May 6, 1967. All I care about is that all the tracks be released as exhaustively as possible (multiple mixes, different versions -- I want them all!). Judging from Mark L's comments -- I have high hopes that is exactly what will happen. If Brian is happy with it, I see no reason anyone else should feel differently.

Anyway -- it's good to be back.

Welcome back Smiley, and agreed on the above!

[SMiLEY]

I think Brian told Taylor he'd had enough and was canning Smile then - being Brian - changed his mind while the band were touring Europe and had another crack. And then gave up. Twilight's last gleaming.

or, alternatively - because I damn well say so !

I think you are right, he couldn't stop tinkering with it even when he's supposedly canned it. Later, there was to be a ten-track version after Smiley (which is itself a rethinking of SMiLE), even much later on his conversations with Peter Reum showed he was still rejiggering it in his mind.

[SMiLEY]

[/quote]

Welcome back Smiley, and agreed on the above!
[/quote]

Why thank ye! 

[Cam Mott]

Well, I guess this is another issue where there will be two camps; that will leave us something to SMiLEboard about in the future.

[desmondo]

BTW it is a dobro on CE

[desmondo]

I was just re-reading DPs book that came out after the release of BWPS and he seemed quite certain that the Elements section was "not right"

He seemed to be saying that Wanna Be Around/Workshop was supposed to have gone after MOC - has this any substance??

[hypehat]

There is a quote from Carol Kaye to that effect, who apparently is going on what Brian told her during sessions. How much you trust Carol Kaye, Motown's greatest bass player, is entirely up to you....

[Andrew G. Doe]

There is a quote from Carol Kaye to that effect, who apparently is going on what Brian told her during sessions. How much you trust Carol Kaye, Motown's greatest bass player, is entirely up to you....

I just spat tea all over my monitor. 

[desmondo]

There is a quote from Carol Kaye to that effect, who apparently is going on what Brian told her during sessions. How much you trust Carol Kaye, Motown's greatest bass player, is entirely up to you....

Haha - thanks

[desmondo]

There is a quote from Carol Kaye to that effect, who apparently is going on what Brian told her during sessions. How much you trust Carol Kaye, Motown's greatest bass player, is entirely up to you....

I just spat tea all over my monitor. 

She and Bernard Purdie made a great Beatles rhythm section

[The Heartical Don]

There is a quote from Carol Kaye to that effect, who apparently is going on what Brian told her during sessions. How much you trust Carol Kaye, Motown's greatest bass player, is entirely up to you....

I just spat tea all over my monitor. 

She and Bernard Purdie made a great Beatles rhythm section

Tut tut, chaps, no jokes at the expense of the lady who played bass on all hits by the Doors, please.