SMiLE release thoughts from a returnee and some questions for the scholars

[drbeachboy]

I will only add that the copy editing job done on Mark's interview was pretty weak and left a number of responses unclear. Certainly the syntax of the quote regarding the "slightly longer version of 'Heroes & Villains'" was so screwed up as to make the quote unintelligible.

I hear you and I agree. As Andrew pointed out, even Mark isn't quite sure how this will all work out in the end, but he does have a conondrum with the 3 sided album when the original Smile was ony two. That is pretty clear. Three sides most likely means three movements. That is getting into BWPS territory. As I stated earlier, after waiting 45 years, at this point all I care is that it is finally getting released.

[Ron]

Al said in the 'quotes from band members' thread somebody else started, that he just listened to some of his acetates from SMiLE recently.  So now there's more confirmed stuff that may be cool and unbooted.  What if, What if for Al's birthday, Brian made him a rough mix of the whole album?

BTW when was Al's birthday?  lol

[Andrew G. Doe]

Al said in the 'quotes from band members' thread somebody else started, that he just listened to some of his acetates from SMiLE recently.  So now there's more confirmed stuff that may be cool and unbooted.  What if, What if for Al's birthday, Brian made him a rough mix of the whole album?

BTW when was Al's birthday?  lol

Was just going to point out the minor flaw in your theory.

September 3rd. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

[Chris Brown]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

Yeah the leap in logic there was pretty incongruous to say the least.  Just because certain tracks were salvaged for later release doesn't mean that Smile, as a recording project, wasn't finished (as in, recording was permanently ceased) in 1967.

[pixletwin]

I think he means that the words and melody were pre-May 1967. So it would be ashamed to just wash those away because there were never actually put to tape before then.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think he means that the words and melody were pre-May 1967. So it would be ashamed to just wash those away because there were never actually put to tape before then.

OK... the name of this release is The Smile Sessions, that is, sessions for the Smile album - care to explain how sessions from, say Surf's Up fit into this picture ?  Suppose they did a 1974 Sessions project - would you include the 15BO version of "It's OK" ?

[drbeachboy]

Devil's advocate: Can't continuing work on a Smile track be considered a Smile session? Now, if Box Set is named: The Smile Sessions (1966-1967), then by all means, I agree with you whole heartedly.

[drbeachboy]

My point being here, if Smile was to have been released in 1972 and work commenced on the the unfinished tracks in 1971, technically they would still be Smile Sessions.

[pixletwin]

I think he means that the words and melody were pre-May 1967. So it would be ashamed to just wash those away because there were never actually put to tape before then.

OK... the name of this release is The Smile Sessions, that is, sessions for the Smile album - care to explain how sessions from, say Surf's Up fit into this picture ?  Suppose they did a 1974 Sessions project - would you include the 15BO version of "It's OK" ?

I understand that. Really. Even the first time you posted that, I understood it. I was just saying I can see where buddhahat is coming from.

[hypehat]

Al said in the 'quotes from band members' thread somebody else started, that he just listened to some of his acetates from SMiLE recently.  So now there's more confirmed stuff that may be cool and unbooted.  What if, What if for Al's birthday, Brian made him a rough mix of the whole album?

BTW when was Al's birthday?  lol

Was just going to point out the minor flaw in your theory.

September 3rd. 

Mike's birthday was yesterday, reckon that's a better fit?

[Andrew G. Doe]

My point being here, if Smile was to have been released in 1972 and work commenced on the the unfinished tracks in 1971, technically they would still be Smile Sessions.

Yes. But it wasn't. And they didn't. So they aren't. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Devil's advocate: Can't continuing work on a Smile track be considered a Smile session? Now, if Box Set is named: The Smile Sessions (1966-1967), then by all means, I agree with you whole heartedly.

Simple question - two, actually: what album was "Cabin Essence" with Carl's vocal released on ? Was Carl recording that vocal specifically for release on Smile ?

Should warn you, I can keep this up for a very long time. You'll get bored long before I do.  

[bossaroo]

Sgt. Pepper clocks in right at 40 mins i believe.

it's silly for anyone to insist that SMiLE would have been under 40 mins.

and it was entirely possible for an album to go 25 mins or so per side.

we're only talking a few extra minutes of music here people...


I have no problem with the 3 Movements. It's perfectly logical.
I think if you flip Movements 2 and 3 on BWPS, you are very close to what SMiLE's original tracklist would have been.

I really just hope they don't close the sequence with Good Vibrations, as that seems to be a completely 2004 decision.

I like Good Vibrations as the first song on SMiLE, it's a killer opener and you get it out of the way for the real mind-blowing stuff.
Prayer sounds great on the heels of GV, imho

[drbeachboy]

My point being here, if Smile was to have been released in 1972 and work commenced on the the unfinished tracks in 1971, technically they would still be Smile Sessions.

Yes. But it wasn't. And they didn't. So they aren't. 

I guess you told me!

lmao

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think if you flip Movements 2 and 3 on BWPS, you are very close to what SMiLE's original tracklist would have been.

Given that no such thing ever existed, that's a truly audacious statement. Care to amplify ?

[drbeachboy]

Devil's advocate: Can't continuing work on a Smile track be considered a Smile session? Now, if Box Set is named: The Smile Sessions (1966-1967), then by all means, I agree with you whole heartedly.

Simple question - two, actually: what album was "Cabin Essence" with Carl's vocal released on ? Was Carl recording that vocal specifically for release on Smile ?

Should warn you, I can keep this up for a very long time. You'll get bored long before I do.  

You are right, of course, but I will still bet you Carl's vocal is included on Disc 1?

[buddhahat]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

Yeah the leap in logic there was pretty incongruous to say the least.  Just because certain tracks were salvaged for later release doesn't mean that Smile, as a recording project, wasn't finished (as in, recording was permanently ceased) in 1967.

Bookending the project firmly between the end of the Pet Sounds sessions and the start of Smiley makes fine, logical sense, but this type of inflexible, black and white thinking will strangle any creativity that Mark and Alan care to bring to the project if you ask me. That's why I'm pretty sure we'll see the lead for Cabinessence on the box, along with some influence from the BWPS sequence.

Smile exists beyond 1967. No of course Wild Honey isn't Smile, although AGD suspects Air is in there somewhere, and we know a bit of Vegetables made the cut. Smile wasn't finished. It bled out into subsequent albums. Stop trying to constrain it within specific dates, or at least don't set yourselves up for huge disappointment when it doesn't conform to your idea of what it should be.

[Dr. Tim]

Let's muddy the cool cool water further: isn't the accepted wisdom that the 1966-67 Smile was to be one banded LP, no segues?   Or has the subsequent research and the new "science" revealed a different likely outcome?  The banded-LP version would have been well under 40 minutes, cloer to 35 would have been the likely norm.

Strictly speaking, the 3-movement BWPS still could easily fit on one LP - 47 minutes long.  The sound would have been more compressed, though, 23 minutes per side instead of 16 minutes, plus the second movement would be broken up for the side break.  Hence the "audiophile" 2-LP pressing with one movement per side plus stack-o-track side.    Three sides for this new configuration might be overkill - unless they have enough interesting stuff to fill  three sides so it isn't.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The only reason Smile 'bled out into subsequent albums' was purely mercenary - the band were hurting for material. That's all.

[pixletwin]

Stop trying to constrain it within specific dates, or at least don't set yourselves up for huge disappointment when it doesn't conform to your idea of what it should be.

I think that is advice we would all do well to heed no matter what our opinions are.

[Ron]

Al said in the 'quotes from band members' thread somebody else started, that he just listened to some of his acetates from SMiLE recently.  So now there's more confirmed stuff that may be cool and unbooted.  What if, What if for Al's birthday, Brian made him a rough mix of the whole album?

BTW when was Al's birthday?  lol

Was just going to point out the minor flaw in your theory.

September 3rd. 

Maybe Al's really big on Valentines day.  So Maybe, for Valentines day...  .... eh, no that probably won't work either.  I'll keep dreamin.

[lance]

agreee 100 percent w/buddhahat

[?]

Given that this is The Smile Sessions, is it really necessary for there to be an attempt at compiling the album at all?  Clearly this is going to be the point everyone complains about, especially since they're complaining already.  If anyone wants to hear a cohesive album from the material we already have that.  I know this cat isn't going back in the bag, I'm just saying.

[Jeff]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile], as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I'd say so, and not just in his own mind, given the May 2 press release announcing that Smile had been scrapped.