The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Billgoodman on November 01, 2011, 03:14:40 AM



Title: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Billgoodman on November 01, 2011, 03:14:40 AM
Yet another topic? Started by a lurker?

Yes! There's no central place where we can discuss the book that came with the boxset and all the essays, info and liner notes in it. Of course we have been talking about it here and there, but I, for one, would like to go in a little deeper. [Mods feel free to move this topic, any place you want]

As a Smile-obsessive for nearly 10 years I wrote many papers on the subject in High School and college so publications about Smile tend to affect me almost as deeply as the music itself. In a way this is what Smile has been about, even before it was shelved and became a myth and inspired writers like Priore. Derek Taylor, if I'm not mistaking, was even assigned to give Brian and The Beach Boys and later Smile a buzz. Writing about Smile is a big part of the experience, just like documentaries are (just watch the Capitol Promo's on youtube, or BWPS-DVD).

That being said, I'm surprised, pleasently, that the best contribution to the Smile Book from a narrative point of view (sessionography is amazing and should have been given more room IMO) is Brian's. Of course, a personal story has some direct advantage, but boy, does he do a tremendous job. He describes the whole history in a way that's satisifying to both the devotee and the newbie. It's correct that this is the only story that also printed in the regular 1 disc Smile-booklet. There's an amazing build up in his story, there's sunspense and then he tackles all the problems (drugs, pressure within himself, with the group, with the label) with a great eye for style. It's so good that I'm even doubting he wrote it himself. How can a man be so good in making music and writing?

The other essays tend to be a little bit redundant, as if the writers didn't know what the everyone was writing (totally understandable, but a publisher or editor should keep an eye on that). For instance Priore and Reum both do a great job, but to me they read like the same story twice (written in two different ways). In a way, the Smile story has been repeated since 1967 again and again from different point of views, some minor, some major and so it kinda fits in that perspective. What do you guys think?


Excuse any mistakes in gramar on my Dutch part.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Catbirdman on November 01, 2011, 03:21:56 PM
Agreed. Brian's words are well-structured and very satisfying. One of course wonders immediately what process went behind getting his words on the page, but I don't doubt that amidst the (much needed I'm sure) copy editors and encouragers, there was a genuine attempt to coax out of the central mastermind a succinct and sensitive summary of the music that has caused him so much anxiety for so long. It must have really hurt that man to realize he wasn't able to come through with the goods in 1967. I hasten to point out, too, that Brian has never shied away from accepting the blame for the album's demise. True, he has often cited (especially in the wake of BWPS) resistance from Mike and others as a contributing factor, but ultimately, he has always owned up to the fact that shelving the project was HIS decision.

I also want to express my admiration for Mike Love's essay. IMO he was very honest and transparent about his perspective, and as so many on this board tirelessly remind us, it was a valid and understandable perspective. I disagree with Mike on the fundamental philosophy of lyric-writing and communication, as I personally find great emotional connection with Van Dyke's approach.  IMO VDP's lyrics stand up solidly against the richest possible amalgamations of personal experiences, half-remembered history textbooks, third generation family histories, and all the rest. To me, Van Dyke Parks WORKS. I love him; I'm a HUGE fan. But for Mike, he couldn't connect. It isn't how he sees the world. I don't think anyone could deny that Mike had the best interests of the Beach Boys at heart, and he has been true to that consistently and admirably. It must have been difficult for him to see his cousin getting deeper into drugs and unpredictability. He must have been worried. I understand that. And in many ways he's right - drugs are not to be trifled with. As Ian Anderson said in the liner notes to today's newly-released edition of Jethro Tull's Aqualung (yeah, I'm a fan, put me in jail...), for every "Keith Richards ... figure who've gone through the darkest of drugs and drink experiences and survived to tell the tale... there are probably two that didn't." Mike's concerns were and are genuine.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 01, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
I rarely ask favors.  I'd like to ask, though, that somebody take up the task of retyping or just scanning the stories from the other Beach Boys, especially Mike's.  I have the 2CD set and don't have anybody but Brian's essay, and the essay written about Van Dyke Parks. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: D Cunningham on November 01, 2011, 03:55:45 PM
I'm disappointed by the absence of Parks in the booklet.  A supposedly brilliant writer can't throw together a couple hundred words?  Hell, write a haiku.

I'm disappointed too in Nolan (even as I'm a fan...I especially like his bio of Ross MacDonald).  His brief bit on Parks here is mainly purplish prose that is fairly
empty.

He says  "...an intimate epic, a vision and history of America, if you will, as experienced via the mind, the memory, the consciousness of one
two-minded pilgrim in progress through time and inner space."

And I'm believing Mind, Memory, and Consciousness are the very same thing.  And then "progress through inner space"
also sounds a whole lot like the same.  So Nolan hasn't really said much more than that Brian and Parks did some thinkin'.

That sort of thing.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 01, 2011, 04:06:16 PM
Yeah, I don't really like that essay either, it's like Van Dyke light.  I do know this: Van Dyke is a honorable stand up type of fella and if he didn't contribute to the album you can bet your biddy he had a good reason. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 01, 2011, 04:26:41 PM
I'm disappointed by the absence of Parks in the booklet.  A supposedly brilliant writer can't throw together a couple hundred words? 

The reason for his non-contribution will doubtless emerge in the fullness of time.

And the answer to your next question is "no".  :)


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Billgoodman on November 02, 2011, 12:18:29 AM
What do you think about the book, AGD? 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 02, 2011, 01:23:26 AM
What do you think about the book, AGD? 

Love it. Only thing wrong is, could be bigger. :-)

Note that stills from the new footage are included in the book.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Boiled Egg on November 02, 2011, 02:44:39 AM
I'm disappointed by the absence of Parks in the booklet.  A supposedly brilliant writer can't throw together a couple hundred words? 

The reason for his non-contribution will doubtless emerge in the fullness of time.


Will it make up for his absence, or just explain it?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: mammy blue on November 02, 2011, 10:04:14 AM
I want to start off by saying that I'm a Mike Love fan. I think his contributions to the BB legacy are immense, but I think his essay was a disaster. Let me try to explain why.

First off, he spends the first portion talking about Pet Sounds again?!? Now, I understand why he's doing this. He wants to draw a contrast between his support of the Pet Sounds project and Tony Asher's lyrical contribution, and his later opinion re: VDP.  Problem is, he already covered these topics in the Pet Sounds Sessions essay (you know, the one that delayed the release of that set for a year). Yes, you named the album, but already the non-hardcore fan is going to be going: WTF?

Then on to Good Vibrations. Now in my opinion, Mike had every right to spend the whole essay writing about Good Vibrations, if he had wanted to. It was an immense collaboration. I still think his lyrics on that are some of the best on the Smile album, and I'm a big VDP fan.

He even makes a subtle case regarding the way his lyrics fused psychedelia with accessibility, which I believe he did do, very effectively. Subtext here. Rather than hating the Smile music, I believe that deep down, Mike is hurt that after the success of Good Vibrations and his lyrical approach to it, he wasn't given a chance to write the lyrics for Smile. The most telling comment is when Mike claims that Brian chose other collaborators largely because Mike was away on tour all the time. I'm not sure I believe that, but Mike, bless his soul, I think really *wants* to believe it. And I sympathize with him and if he had made his subtle point here and then moved on to less defensive musings, the essay would have been very successful.

Let's remember that we hardcore fans know the story. We know the nuances. And to us, Mike's latter part of the essay may just be an honest account of how he feels. I believe that it is, but I don't think it did him any favors at all. I don't think he should pretend to love all aspects of the project, but he could have taken a different tack and drawn attention away from his perceived role in the saga. What about focusing more on recollections of some of the sessions, or the song Wonderful which is a VDP lyric but supposedly his favorite track from the album? I wish he had mentioned that, but he didn't. I want people to like Mike, I really do. A lot of people may not be aware of the negativity towards him, or are willing to forgive, but he can't help himself but be Mike and try to take it head on.

His "I was not consulted nor did I make the final decision to scrap Smile" (paraphrasing) is so carefully worded it could have been written by a lawyer. It only leads the casual reader to think, but what else could he have done that led to that? He doesn't really answer that, so it definitely ends up hurting more than helping.

I must admit, my jaw dropped when he actually again mentioned "acid alliteration" in the essay. It's a direct attack on the chief lyricist of the project, and I know that as a member of the BB he has every right to do that, but that doesn't mean he should. Add to that the fact that VDP is not a participant in the booklet and doesn't have a chance to defend himself (I guess Nolan sort of does). I don't think Mike knew at the time that VDP wouldn't be writing an essay, and we all know VDP has pitched more than a few volleys in Mike's direction over the years, but it's all about perception. Again we (the hardcore fans) know the nuances, but most other music fans don't. I think that for the majority of music fans who read his essay and then VDP's lyrics in the booklet, it will only serve to cement the conclusion that Mike is the narrow minded reactionary in the Beach Boys who was anti-Smile. I don't think it's fair to paint him in such broad strokes, but he's doing it to himself!

Wow, that ended up longer than I expected. Agree or disagree, please chime in.



Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 02, 2011, 10:19:37 AM
I'm cool with his contribution to the booklet.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: pixletwin on November 02, 2011, 10:21:33 AM
Was anyone else really touched by Diane's essay? I was. Not sure why. It just seemed really honest and written with a lot of love.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 02, 2011, 10:46:55 AM
I thought Mike's essay was perfect.  He lays it all out and doesn't back down.  He's like the Ron Paul of the Beach Boys--his story, like it or hate it, has stayed the same over the years.

I have the same gripe as AGD.  I would have liked another 200 pages or so of studio photos, full essays for each session in the sessionography, etc.  Perhaps they didn't want to be redundant, but there were some nice contemporaneous photos in the BWPS booklet from the studio that would have been nice to have in this booklet.

I think Brian's notes accurately reflect the journey he has been on to get to the point where he's ready to put this stuff out.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Amy B. on November 02, 2011, 12:12:19 PM
I got my box set a day earlier than Amazon said I would. Yay!

I agree with the assessment that a writer produced Brian's essay, maybe based on interviews with Brian and things he has said in the past. It's very skillfully written to have Brian's conversational style but also to maintain the narrative throughout. That's fine with me. It seems like it's based on his thoughts. Isn't this how all of Brian's liner notes are created?

I must say that Mike's essay bothered me, particularly when it's followed by Bruce's kind words. I have no trouble believing these are Mike's words, as they are characteristically defensive and passive aggressive. Once again, he took the opportunity to point out that he wrote the GV lyrics...for about 1/3 of the essay. But then again, if Mike is going to be honest, how else can he do this? Praise for VDP's lyrics would be fake. I liked how Marilyn (or was it Diane) said the lyrics are secondary to the music anyway, so who cares if they're hard to understand? But then, as a lyricist, Mike probably doesn't agree with this.

The lack of an essay from VDP is glaring. The lyricist really ought to have a voice here. In my imagination, I think maybe VDP wrote something that was way critical of the BBs' reaction to the music (doesn't he still claim that they hated it) and that his essay was rejected for the sake of peace. I'm glad there are plenty of photos of him, and that there's a write-up about him. More people should know who he is. Wow, he looked so young back then--almost like a teenager.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Smiling Pets on November 02, 2011, 12:34:07 PM
I liked what Brian had to say, but like everyone else really missed Van Dyke's input. I feel his input was almost more important that the other Beach Boys' input. But i did enjoy what seemed like honest essays from Al, Mike, and Bruce. I also enjoyed the quotes from Dennis and Carl.

It really is a shame they never saw this release through.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: anazgnos on November 02, 2011, 01:16:47 PM
Just in the past few weeks I've found myself really softening on Mike Love after being a hardline hater for a long time.  He's a loudmouth, tactless, diarrhea-of-the-mouth type of guy but his positions aren't really wrong.  I'm less and less feeling like he's the all-time philistine who grossly misunderstood what his own band was about.  I'm pretty satisfied with his contribution to the box, it's probably about as tasteful and appropriate as the guy can be on this subject.

Brian's essay just seems overreaching to me.  Whoever shepherded this thing into existence, the urge to craft some kind of "ultimate statement" must have just been too strong.  I would really like to believe that's how Brian feels, at least.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: mammy blue on November 02, 2011, 02:35:16 PM
In my imagination, I think maybe VDP wrote something that was way critical of the BBs' reaction to the music (doesn't he still claim that they hated it) and that his essay was rejected for the sake of peace.

I can't elaborate, but this isn't what happened.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 02:43:04 PM
I want people to like Mike, I really do.

This is crucial to the Mike Love story.  To understand Mike and where he's coming from, and to fully appreciate him, you have to understand this one simple concept:

Mike puts his own opinion of himself, and what is right and what is wrong for himself, his band, Brian, all of that.... way, way, way above whether or not anybody likes him.  

I've met people in life like this.  

He doesn't care if you like him, but I genuinely think he feels he's doing the best possible thing when he does it.  I don't feel he's a selfish person.  The reason he didn't like the lyrics wasn't because he personally didn't want to sing them.  It's because he thought He, Brian, Carl, Al, Dennis, and Bruce wouldn't make money off of it.  He without a doubt loves Brian to death, and thought that the friends that were hangers on were screwing Brian up, etc.

It's not important that Mike's right or wrong in his opinion on this, to understand him you only need to understand how he feels, like you said.

I like how you mention that you think it hurt his feelings that Brian picked other songwriters.  I think that's true.  

The narrative with Mike often portrays him as a money hungry, lying, cheating, pompous asshole who is out for himself and himself only.  Nothing could be farther from the truth, in my opinion.  

Just like Brian is unable to run his own life (legally), and just like Brian has serious social issues... so does Mike Love.  Mike's just more highly functioning than Brian is, and his problems manifest in other ways.  He's only ever known 1 thing, how to be a frontman.  He does that very well.  Social relationships, though.... not so well.  How many times has he been married?  

Mike's whole life has been "I walk into a room, I walk onto a stage, everybody goes crazy and throws money at me.  All the women want me.  I have to stay away from people because they all want autographs or a picture taken" or whatever.  He literally, in my opinion, has toured... more than anybody in a major band that I'm aware of, anywhere.  There may be some guitarists or musicians that have been on the road for 50 years, but I doubt it.  Nobody has been a frontman for 50 years.

In this day and age, Mike's not playing sold out stadiums anymore... but hell even if you're playing the Holiday Inn, you've still got 50 people in the room who show you adoration and want to meet you, and shake your hand, and get an autograph from you, or an interview, or whatever.  I'm not saying this is the source of why Mike has social problems, I'm just saying it's never going to get any better and it's so ingrained in him by now, it's habit.  

All things said, I think he's a talented singer/songwriter, and an even more talented businessman to keep this thing rolling for so long.  I wish he was a little kinder sometimes too, but Mike calls them as he sees them.  When he dies, he may not have any real friends, but he'll have integrity.  I guess that's what he wants.  


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 02:56:25 PM
Not the most popular opinion: but I think with the Beach Boys, lyrics have always been equal to the music. And this is why, as much as I freaking love SMILE, nothing on that album (excepting Surf's Up) affects me nearly as much as say Warmth of The Sun or Caroline No. Mike has always had a damn good point, even if he went about it in a silly way.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Iron Horse-Apples on November 02, 2011, 03:02:52 PM
There may be some guitarists or musicians that have been on the road for 50 years, but I doubt it.  Nobody has been a frontman for 50 years.

Jagger?



Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 03:03:42 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates. 



Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 03:09:40 PM
Not the most popular opinion: but I think with the Beach Boys, lyrics have always been equal to the music. And this is why, as much as I freaking love SMILE, nothing on that album (excepting Surf's Up) affects me nearly as much as say Warmth of The Sun or Caroline No. Mike has always had a damn good point, even if he went about it in a silly way.

 He doesn't play an instrument.   He can't contribute to the band musically.  It's not his thing.  This was offset in the beginning, by his vocals and by his lyrics.  It's what he did to contribute.  Brian did the music, Mike did the lyrics. 

I can completely understand why he thinks lyrics are important.  I believe him too when he says he didn't make the final decision and wasn't consulted.

Sometimes people with a strong character are called controlling when they have any opinion at all.  Mike said his opinion, he still has it, but he sung what he was asked to sing, and all these years he's contributed when asked (Smiley Smile, Surf's Up, etc.). 

I think he's one of the most fascinating aspects of this album. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Iron Horse-Apples on November 02, 2011, 03:11:10 PM
Only six months more.

And Ron, please kick me if I'm being pedantic, but youdid say "nobodies been a frontman for 50 years" There was no mention of time on the road.

I'm bent over ready for my kick.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: mammy blue on November 02, 2011, 03:46:55 PM
Thanks, Ron. I guess part of my point was that Mike could have written a million different kinds of essays, focused on other topics like his admiration of the song Wonderful, without misrepresenting himself and compromising his integrity.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: mammy blue on November 02, 2011, 03:54:25 PM
Not the most popular opinion: but I think with the Beach Boys, lyrics have always been equal to the music. And this is why, as much as I freaking love SMILE, nothing on that album (excepting Surf's Up) affects me nearly as much as say Warmth of The Sun or Caroline No. Mike has always had a damn good point, even if he went about it in a silly way.

Is that really all because of the lyrics though? In most songs on Smile (other than tracks like Surf's Up and maybe Wonderful), the musical construction is far more cerebral and abstract than his earlier, more emotional, flowing melodic work that you cite. I think Van Dyke's lyrics fit this approach very well, and the connection you feel with Surf's Up may be that it was written in more of a Pet Sounds vein than most of the other tracks. Abstract pieces like Worms, Child and Fire aren't necessarily designed to affect you emotionally... it's more of a mind trip.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 02, 2011, 03:56:09 PM
Thanks, Ron. I guess part of my point was that Mike could have written a million different kinds of essays, focused on other topics like his admiration of the song Wonderful, without misrepresenting himself and compromising his integrity.

Wouldn't have made any difference to some people if he'd written The Gospels: he's Mike Love, therefore it sucks.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 04:05:17 PM
It's a care by case thing. Roger Waters can site there all he wants and claim that the emotional aspect of Dark Side Of The Moon springs from the lyrics, but it's hard to jive with that when the most emotional affecting song on the album (Great Gig) has no lyrics at all!

I find the lyrics to Surf's Up to be HUGELY emotionally affecting, so it's a hard thing to pin down.

I just think overall with the Beach Boys, the lyrics are maybe more important than just about any other band I can think of other than maybe The Velvets.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 04:39:01 PM
Only six months more.

And Ron, please kick me if I'm being pedantic, but youdid say "nobodies been a frontman for 50 years" There was no mention of time on the road.

I'm bent over ready for my kick.

Sigh.  Lets get pedantic. 

The Beach Boys were formed in 1961. 

The Rolling Stones were formed in 1962. 

We are tripping the light fantastic, in the year 2011. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Loaf on November 02, 2011, 04:47:49 PM
I'm disappointed by the absence of Parks in the booklet.  A supposedly brilliant writer can't throw together a couple hundred words? 

The reason for his non-contribution will doubtless emerge in the fullness of time.


Will it make up for his absence, or just explain it?


I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...

On a completely and separately unrelated note that is in no way whatsoever related, Mike's essay was pretty honest to admit to the negativity on his part.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 04:57:34 PM
Only six months more.

And Ron, please kick me if I'm being pedantic, but youdid say "nobodies been a frontman for 50 years" There was no mention of time on the road.

I'm bent over ready for my kick.

Sigh.  Lets get pedantic.  

The Beach Boys were formed in 1961.  

We are tripping the light fantastic, in the year 2011.  


But I'll bet Mike's done more dates as a frontman...... by a longshot!

Sooooo, hmmmmm, Scorcese better be reading this: Bob, George, he needs to get his Mike movie up and running!  >:D

The Rolling Stones were formed in 1962. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Amy B. on November 02, 2011, 05:04:48 PM
I want people to like Mike, I really do.

This is crucial to the Mike Love story.  To understand Mike and where he's coming from, and to fully appreciate him, you have to understand this one simple concept:

Mike puts his own opinion of himself, and what is right and what is wrong for himself, his band, Brian, all of that.... way, way, way above whether or not anybody likes him.  

I've met people in life like this.  

He doesn't care if you like him, but I genuinely think he feels he's doing the best possible thing when he does it.  I don't feel he's a selfish person.  The reason he didn't like the lyrics wasn't because he personally didn't want to sing them.  It's because he thought He, Brian, Carl, Al, Dennis, and Bruce wouldn't make money off of it.  He without a doubt loves Brian to death, and thought that the friends that were hangers on were screwing Brian up, etc.

It's not important that Mike's right or wrong in his opinion on this, to understand him you only need to understand how he feels, like you said.


I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm not sure I agree that he doesn't care whether anyone likes him. He's very defensive, so to me, he cares a lot. He wants to set the record straight. And that's fine. I get the sense that he lacks self-awareness. It's almost like he doesn't realize why people have this image of him--why he comes off the way he does. Like you said, he's dysfunctional like Brian, but in a different way, and he lacks social skills. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't been a BB fan as long as a lot of the people on this board.
For me, I'm usually going to side with the person who is pushing artistic boundaries, rather than the person who wants things to stay the way they are for security. So going in, I was on Brian's "side," as the story was presented. Nowadays, I have a better understanding of where Mike is coming from. I know he loves Brian. I know he loves and feels protective of the Beach Boys. I know he sees the BBs as his family. But it still drives me crazy that he can't explain himself without coming off like he does. Because if he knew how to express himself better, he would come off better.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: MBE on November 02, 2011, 05:19:00 PM
I want people to like Mike, I really do.

This is crucial to the Mike Love story.  To understand Mike and where he's coming from, and to fully appreciate him, you have to understand this one simple concept:

Mike puts his own opinion of himself, and what is right and what is wrong for himself, his band, Brian, all of that.... way, way, way above whether or not anybody likes him.  

I've met people in life like this.  

He doesn't care if you like him, but I genuinely think he feels he's doing the best possible thing when he does it.  I don't feel he's a selfish person.  The reason he didn't like the lyrics wasn't because he personally didn't want to sing them.  It's because he thought He, Brian, Carl, Al, Dennis, and Bruce wouldn't make money off of it.  He without a doubt loves Brian to death, and thought that the friends that were hangers on were screwing Brian up, etc.

It's not important that Mike's right or wrong in his opinion on this, to understand him you only need to understand how he feels, like you said.


I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm not sure I agree that he doesn't care whether anyone likes him. He's very defensive, so to me, he cares a lot. He wants to set the record straight. And that's fine. I get the sense that he lacks self-awareness. It's almost like he doesn't realize why people have this image of him--why he comes off the way he does. Like you said, he's dysfunctional like Brian, but in a different way, and he lacks social skills. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't been a BB fan as long as a lot of the people on this board.
For me, I'm usually going to side with the person who is pushing artistic boundaries, rather than the person who wants things to stay the way they are for security. So going in, I was on Brian's "side," as the story was presented. Nowadays, I have a better understanding of where Mike is coming from. I know he loves Brian. I know he loves and feels protective of the Beach Boys. I know he sees the BBs as his family. But it still drives me crazy that he can't explain himself without coming off like he does. Because if he knew how to express himself better, he would come off better.
Brian was never verbally that easy to understand either except maybe in his twentes. Mike and Brian just don't come off well compared to say Bruce (at times) or Al to the general public or person who isn't deeply involved. I'm not knocking them but even Dennis (who could be crude sometimes) was able in his better moments to verbally express himself in an interview situation. Carl came off guarded but he had a nice temporment so that really leaves Mike and Brian and they were and are just somewhat eccentric. That again isn't a knock. I don't think either of them would have been able to do what they did if they were completely thinking "normally". Mike may not have liked Van Dyke's lyrics but I wouldn't say he wasn't artistic overall at least before Endless Summer. Cautious at times, but someone who wrote the lyrics for Please Let Me Wonder, Good Vibrations, All This Is That, or Big Sur obviously had a creative bent themself.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 05:31:01 PM
Right on the money, Mike!

Dennis has always come across to me as the most articulate and socially adjusted Beach Boy. Personal issues aside, he always seemed together and hip and able to freely express himself in words and music.

Al is Al, Bruce is well spoken but a bit airy, Carl was careful and measured with his words.

...... Brian and Mike are both bats#*t crazy!


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: SMiLE Brian on November 02, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
...... Brian and Mike are both bats#*t crazy!
So want a stand up comedy show with Brian and Mike because they are really funny when interact with each other. :lol


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 05:43:25 PM
And toss Van Dyke in there as the straight-man!  :lol



Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Bill Tobelman on November 02, 2011, 06:04:07 PM
I love the book.

In 2004 there was a lot of Brian & Van Dyke in that concert program but what bugged me was the "It's about Americana" vibe that went around.

With the box set book & the cd set notes there is an admission that there may be more going on than initially meets the eyes & ears. For that reason alone this is a big step forward.

Brian's notes are awesome--other folks have already stated as much.

Tom Nolan's are terrific as well IMHO. I like the quotes he selected & where he was going with things.

Frank Holmes' comments are the most important & best as usual. Come on folks get on board with Frank's comments.

Peter Reum branched out a bit this time around-building upon his past observations with his unique level of sensitivity. When BWPS came out Peter added Gershwin into the conversation. This time around LSD was mentioned. Nice job Peter.

Domenic Priore also summed up his past observations nicely linking the times & places & bands & people & ideas which is his forte.

If there's a bombshell here it's that we've moved from "It's Americana" to "It's maybe more than you think." That's a huge step in SMiLE-land.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: oldsurferdude on November 02, 2011, 06:32:54 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ian on November 02, 2011, 06:48:34 PM
Personally my favorite part of the book was the great sessionography by Craig and Alan, which is outstanding, and all the great photos and illustrations.  And of course seeing my name among the special thanks was a personal thrill.  Only disappointment-No AGD essay and no Jon Stebbins essay!!!
I have only listened to disc 1 so far-so back to the CD player for me!


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 08:16:04 PM
I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...

Come on man.  An 'executive veto'.  In other words, you think Mike did it.

Mike had nothing, and I mean NOTHING to do with it.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 08:21:04 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a sh*t if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 08:22:24 PM
Personally my favorite part of the book was the great sessionography by Craig and Alan, which is outstanding, and all the great photos and illustrations.  And of course seeing my name among the special thanks was a personal thrill.  Only disappointment-No AGD essay and no Jon Stebbins essay!!!
I have only listened to disc 1 so far-so back to the CD player for me!

that's the only thing I really miss only having the 2cd set... I don't get all the essays, or the sessionography.  The second CD isn't even mentioned in the booklet, there's just a tracklisting on the back of the box.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 08:47:07 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?

Hey now, go easy on the OSD! Who else around here can get their balls busted as hard as him and still retain their sense of humor?

Certainly not me!!

But I agree. Jagger is the greatest front man in history but Mike works harder. Plus, Mick's had his own share of questionable wardrobe choices over the years and he just MIGHT be bald, but we'd never know it unlike Myke who's proudly rocked his ham head like the bad-ass that he is!


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: oldsurferdude on November 02, 2011, 08:49:39 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. >:(


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 08:51:07 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. >:(

Aw.  A net bully.  Isn't that cute. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 08:56:05 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?

Hey now, go easy on the OSD! Who else around here can get their balls busted as hard as him and still retain their sense of humor?

Certainly not me!!

But I agree. Jagger is the greatest front man in history but Mike works harder. Plus, Mick's had his own share of questionable wardrobe choices over the years and he just MIGHT be bald, but we'd never know it unlike Myke who's proudly rocked his ham head like the bad-ass that he is!

I've seen both Mike and Mick in concert, both past their prime.  The Rolling Stones was the greatest concert I ever went to.  I saw them on their "Bridges to Babylon" tour.  Mick ran around the stage for 2 hours half dressed.  I think he was already in his late 50's then.  Easily the best concert I ever went to. 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: mammy blue on November 02, 2011, 08:56:44 PM

I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...


That's not what happened either.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 02, 2011, 09:03:30 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. >:(

Thanks for the scowl face otherwise this could be ..... er..... easily misinterpreted  >:D


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2011, 09:10:55 PM
Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  :lol Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. >:(

Thanks for the scowl face otherwise this could be ..... er..... easily misinterpreted  >:D

He's just cranky, they must have got his metamucil dose wrong again. 

Notice we were talking about things, and he came along and jumped on me with both feet.  I suggested he was 'old' because his name is 'oldsurferdude'.... and then he threatened to whip my ass.  You might respect him, but I don't.  He sounds like a bully to me, and I'm not intimidated by that crap.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on November 02, 2011, 09:11:31 PM
Quote
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. Angry

Thanks for the scowl face otherwise this could be ..... er..... easily misinterpreted  Evil

Must...not...make...Deliverance...joke...


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Wirestone on November 02, 2011, 09:23:48 PM
I don't react quite as well to Brian's notes. They strike me as Todd Gold-ish. But I'm glad ya'll like them.

Mike, on the other hand, did a fine job.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Cam Mott on November 03, 2011, 03:12:45 AM
I'm disappointed by the absence of Parks in the booklet.  A supposedly brilliant writer can't throw together a couple hundred words?  Hell, write a haiku.

I'm disappointed too in Nolan (even as I'm a fan...I especially like his bio of Ross MacDonald).  His brief bit on Parks here is mainly purplish prose that is fairly
empty.

He says  "...an intimate epic, a vision and history of America, if you will, as experienced via the mind, the memory, the consciousness of one
two-minded pilgrim in progress through time and inner space."

And I'm believing Mind, Memory, and Consciousness are the very same thing.  And then "progress through inner space"
also sounds a whole lot like the same.  So Nolan hasn't really said much more than that Brian and Parks did some thinkin'.

That sort of thing.

DCunningham? As in "Don Cunningham"?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: P.J. on November 03, 2011, 03:38:55 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: The Shift on November 03, 2011, 03:47:20 AM
There may be some guitarists or musicians that have been on the road for 50 years, but I doubt it.  Nobody has been a frontman for 50 years.

Jagger?



Chuck Berry.  Different band every night, but the same frontman. And still rocking.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 03, 2011, 03:55:40 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: John Stivaktas on November 03, 2011, 04:04:24 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.

Andrew, is she the same girl mentioned in 'Goodbye Surfing, Hello God'? You know, the one with ESP messing with Brian's mind and banned from a session!


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 03, 2011, 04:17:18 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.

Andrew, is she the same girl mentioned in 'Goodbye Surfing, Hello God'? You know, the one with ESP messing with Brian's mind and banned from a session!

Surely is.  ;D


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: c-man on November 03, 2011, 05:15:57 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.

Andrew, is she the same girl mentioned in 'Goodbye Surfing, Hello God'? You know, the one with ESP messing with Brian's mind and banned from a session!

Surely is.  ;D

Maybe THAT'S why she isn't named! 


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: grooveblaster on November 03, 2011, 06:44:19 AM
Who is Carol Botnick?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: grooveblaster on November 03, 2011, 07:13:53 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.

Andrew, is she the same girl mentioned in 'Goodbye Surfing, Hello God'? You know, the one with ESP messing with Brian's mind and banned from a session!

Surely is.  ;D

Maybe THAT'S why she isn't named! 

Wasnt  she involved at one time with Thomas Pynchon also?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 03, 2011, 08:33:13 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.

Andrew, is she the same girl mentioned in 'Goodbye Surfing, Hello God'? You know, the one with ESP messing with Brian's mind and banned from a session!

Surely is.  ;D


All they needed to do was read this board May 13th of this year, as Andrew points out he named Ms. Jolly even back then, and the info was already posted with accompanying photo.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10334.msg187720.html#msg187720 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10334.msg187720.html#msg187720)

And the photo is tagged "unknown" in the official book? No excuses...look to the board! ;D ;)


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: grooveblaster on November 03, 2011, 08:48:51 AM
June Fairchild was having hard times for awhile. I know there was a LA Times feature on her being homeless at one point.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: JohnMill on November 03, 2011, 08:50:46 AM
I feel real bad about the blonde girl referred to as "unknown" in the group picture of the "gang". It's kind of like that buddy that hung out with you in high school for like a week but now you can't remember what happened to them.  ;D

Not unknown - that's Siegel's first wife, Chrissie Jolly. I told them that back in late summer.

Andrew, is she the same girl mentioned in 'Goodbye Surfing, Hello God'? You know, the one with ESP messing with Brian's mind and banned from a session!

Surely is.  ;D


All they needed to do was read this board May 13th of this year, as Andrew points out he named Ms. Jolly even back then, and the info was already posted with accompanying photo.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10334.msg187720.html#msg187720 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10334.msg187720.html#msg187720)

And the photo is tagged "unknown" in the official book? No excuses...look to the board! ;D ;)

I always thought she was kind of attractive myself.  I think what spooked Brian is that he finally located a girl who was (at least from his perspective) capable of picking up vibrations on a whole other plane.  I think he had that entire scene turned around on him and it spooked him.  I'm being facetious here but it is interesting given the "Good Vibrations" concept that Brian would be so worked up over a chick that he perceived had ESP.  


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 03, 2011, 09:34:10 AM
Who is Carol Botnick?

Some sort of relation to Bruce Botnick?  Sunset Sound Engineer?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Loaf on November 03, 2011, 10:19:48 AM

I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...


That's not what happened either.

Then...how about VDP didn't want to write anything. He's already said his piece, many times, over the years, and he's comfortable with what he's currently doing without wanting his work on Smile to unbalance his career?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Bill Barnyard on November 03, 2011, 10:56:05 AM
Quote
Who is Carol Botnick?

Quote
Some sort of relation to Bruce Botnick?  Sunset Sound Engineer?


Well there's a Carol Botnick listed on Marilyn Wilson-Rutherford's web site....giving a testimonial.


http://www.marilynwilsonrutherford.com/testimonials.html (http://www.marilynwilsonrutherford.com/testimonials.html)


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: MBE on November 03, 2011, 11:48:07 AM
And toss Van Dyke in there as the straight-man!  :lol


I see a follow up to The Murry Wilson show emerging.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on November 03, 2011, 11:55:07 AM
There may be some guitarists or musicians that have been on the road for 50 years, but I doubt it.  Nobody has been a frontman for 50 years.

Jagger?



Chuck Berry.  Different band every night, but the same frontman. And still rocking.

True, but the different band each night thing has really hurt his reputation as a performer!


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Aegir on November 03, 2011, 12:40:05 PM
I really liked Marilyn and Diane's essays. the more human side of things.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Shady on November 03, 2011, 01:57:04 PM
I really liked Marilyn and Diane's essays. the more human side of things.

Those two were the first I read, was really interested in their take on things.

The Brian and Frank Holmes picture is so brilliant, and the one of Brian at the Ghost Town.

The book is so well done from the essays to the pictures. I will treasure it


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: LeeDempsey on November 03, 2011, 02:34:01 PM
Quote
Who is Carol Botnick?

Quote
Some sort of relation to Bruce Botnick?  Sunset Sound Engineer?


Well there's a Carol Botnick listed on Marilyn Wilson-Rutherford's web site....giving a testimonial.


http://www.marilynwilsonrutherford.com/testimonials.html (http://www.marilynwilsonrutherford.com/testimonials.html)

Bruce's sister, and a friend of Marilyn's.  She has some fascinating bird's-eye stories -- such as The Doors playing at her "Sweet 16" birthday party...

Lee


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: grooveblaster on November 03, 2011, 02:36:54 PM
Quote
Who is Carol Botnick?

Quote
Some sort of relation to Bruce Botnick?  Sunset Sound Engineer?


Well there's a Carol Botnick listed on Marilyn Wilson-Rutherford's web site....giving a testimonial.


http://www.marilynwilsonrutherford.com/testimonials.html (http://www.marilynwilsonrutherford.com/testimonials.html)

Bruce's sister, and a friend of Marilyn's.  She has some fascinating bird's-eye stories -- such as The Doors playing at her "Sweet 16" birthday party...

Lee

wow


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Blake Alan on November 03, 2011, 02:37:51 PM
I got a laugh out of the Dean Torrence piece... mostly because he's given space in the definitive book about the most famous unreleased album of all-time, and he manages to say nothing about the album, the music or anything remotely relevant. I'm not even positive the anecdote took place during the Smile timeframe (though one would assume so)! Somehow that just seemed very... Dean-ish!


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Aegir on November 03, 2011, 02:51:58 PM
I agree with that completely, Bubblegum.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Billgoodman on November 03, 2011, 03:44:36 PM
I don't get why Boyd and Linnett weren't given more room to elaborate on their work. For the one or two disc-set I can understand it, but the box-owners are SMiLE-nuts. Why not be more open about where the tapes come from, what they merged with what, where precisely are the fly-in's, when are we hearing in acetate?
 Ok, you could say we have this board for that... ;D

I like to be taken by the hand when I listen and those guys are pro's, 2 pages isn't enough. Same thing goes for the sessions, they should have been twice as many pages at least. For instance, the detuned piano on the 1967 Surf's Up, it's a great novelty, but as somebody pointed out: Brian plays other chords too! I would have liked to have a central place for this sort of info and Boyd and Linnet could have provided it. Maybe this isn't the last SMiLE-release (dvd in the works?) and there are always interviews to draw info from.


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: P.J. on November 03, 2011, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Producers Notes
"Many of the songs presented here have been painstakingly pieced together from multiple source masters, using everything from first generation session tapes, copies of vintage rough mixes, acetate, and, yes, even bootleg CDs containing material "missing" from The Beach Boys' archives.
-- Alan Boyd

I read through the Sessionography but didn't see anything about CD sources. Maybe I missed it. What tracks were from the boots I wonder?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on November 03, 2011, 04:34:03 PM
The Brian and Frank Holmes picture is so brilliant...

In the mountie hat ? That's Van Dyke... isn't it ?


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: JohnMill on November 03, 2011, 04:42:48 PM
The Brian and Frank Holmes picture is so brilliant...

In the mountie hat ? That's Van Dyke... isn't it ?

Looks like the purveyor of "Song Cycle" and "Bicycle Rider" to me.  ???


Title: Re: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays
Post by: Chris Brown on November 03, 2011, 07:18:50 PM
The Brian and Frank Holmes picture is so brilliant...

In the mountie hat ? That's Van Dyke... isn't it ?

Looks like the purveyor of "Song Cycle" and "Bicycle Rider" to me.  ???

Yep, that's a great picture - definitely a new one for me.