Forgive for not finishing reading through the entire thread yet so some of this may be redundant.


1) At some point in the 1970's, not using an outside producer (all the guys were good-- but even the Beatles had George Martin.)
2) Not releasing an original album within in a year of Kokomo
3) Giving away two of the biggest hits of the 70's to other artists-- You are so Beautiful (debatable, I know) and I write the songs
4) Not playing Montarey Pop Fest
5) Not releasing Smile earlier

All I have to say about this is...how fucking dare you endanger the safety of your fans in a situation like this. A man has the right to learn a living, but there are better and safer ways to do it.

I'm all for mitigating danger, but unless Mike Love kidnapped those people and forced them to be there, the band endangered no one. Those people chose to buy tickets and attend the show on their own, free will.

Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.

I wonder if some of these shows lingering on the books of the Beach Boys touring act and other artists has something to do with the insurance for each gig or a policy of the venue? For example, you can't cancel and collect insurance until you get a certain window of time?
I'm just spitballing here, folks.

I loved those performances. Just pure, real, raw performances capturing a moment in time. While I agree there is a bittersweet if not sad element in watching my own musical idols age, it's a reminder that it's part of the natural progression, and it happens to all of us. To do it gracefully - not trying to hide it - and still be able to share your art with others is a testament to all these artists like Brian who are putting themselves out there.

After watching and hearing this, I'm getting the feeling that a full project like this might be in order. I know everyone references this, but there is a reason why they keep going back to it: The Johnny Cash American series with Rick Rubin defined that genre. Just pure performance and raw art that connects with millions, where the artist is basically there with no attempts to hide the effects of age or health issues. The music and the personality of the artist shines through and connects. It doesn't have to be Rubin at the helm, but maybe it's time to seriously consider getting Brian in the studio with a piano and a microphone and rolling the tape.

As much as I also have said let Brian do what he wants, maybe this kind of raw and real presentation is more relevant now, rather than calling in the bass harmonicas and vibraphones to try to make a fully stacked production.

I could not agree more with this! I would be thrilled to get a stripped down album. It would mean so much to me.

I confess I don't know all the ins and outs of the organization, but I thought it was more along the lines of the voting partners of BRI basically sided with Mike on having the touring license and kind of made him the captain of the brand. Neither Carl nor Brian were deeply invested in piloting the ship.

I think "Summer of Paradise" happened because it was something to do and there was no real resistance to putting out product, but it wasn't that Mike necessarily had complete control. But Landy's Brian was focused on solo work, Carl kind of lost motivation after the band went oldies (and especially after Dennis died). Al may have resisted elements of the situation, especially with live performances / cheerleaders, but he was the only one perhaps positioned to combat Mike. And however one looks at it, Mike has certainly been more of a face of the brand and IS a family member, so he has a bit more pull than Al.

Again, just my basic understanding, and I would not be at all surprised if I am wrong.

As for Carl, the Brian/Paley material, I've thought about this one a lot.

Here's where I land on it ...

I don't think Carl disliked the material. I don't even think he necessarily resented Brian being back in the big chair. And honestly, I don't believe he saw more value in Stars and Stripes, Vol. 1, or in Summer in Paradise, vs. the Paley material.

I think Carl saw a chance of history repeating itself, and this time he said, "That's enough."

From Brian's 1964 breakdown to the Smile meltdown to the 1968 mental disintegration to the Holland struggle to the Brian's Back circus to the "no really, Brian's really back this time" of KTSA, to the return of Landy ... all Carl ever heard was, "Why didn't the band do this, why didn't the band do that, why did Brian get rushed, why was Brian turned back into a performer, why was Brian forced to produce material, why didn't the family stop this, why didn't Carl do XYZ," etc.

Then there was the faux autobiography, the lawsuits, the press, and all anyone could agree on was that things were completely screwed up.

Carl may have seen renewed interest, a new collection of material, Brian at the center and he may have thought to himself, "What if this goes sideways like it has the last twenty years? What if he loses interest and I have to finish the product? What if Brian crashes even harder? What's Brian's mental state? Is he on the right meds? He's smoking again and he's gaining weight, are people going to compare this to 1980-82?"

I think Carl was in a no-win situation. And the only way to basically control the situation and deflect attention on a possible mess was to shut down the project.

I'm not saying this is 100 percent what happened. But I put myself in the place of the caring brother who has watched his sibling soar close to the sun, crash to earth and try to take flight again like a phoenix, only to burn again and again ... What would I do?

We also can look at release timelines. There was a 5-year span between KTSA and BB85 (granted, Dennis died in between), there were 4 years between BB85 and Still Cruisin' (and that wasn't even a full album of new material). So really there were 7 years between BB85 and SIP. Four years after SIP came Stars and Stripes Vol. 1 (which isn't a perfect album, nor even a particularly inspired project, but it didn't require much investment, it followed a similar project with the Eagles, and had the potential to grow into a new market). Less than 2 years after that, Carl was dead.

Maybe the Paley Sessions material would have blossomed after SAS after the band and Brian and Paley woodshedded the material more. Was, in the 50 Sides book, even takes the blame / falls on the sword for telling Carl and the band that he thought the group could come up with better material.

Carl got sick, Carl died, Brian went full into his solo career and that ended the Paley Sessions hopes for a Beach Boys project.

All I'm saying is that I don't think the decision was simple, I don't think the decision was even really made ... no final decree from Carl that this material would never be recorded. I think they were looking for a chance to try something and take the time to make a good original project, but then time ran out for Carl.

Maybe I'm trying to give Carl way too much freedom. But the dude was a beautiful voice, a true musician and had certainly led the group through rough waters ... I don't think he necessarily thought SIP was better than Paley, I think he was trying to be careful and avoid another exploitation circus and maybe actually buy the time for the band to really make something special. It's just that the special project never had the time to happen.

My two cents, worth much less than that in today's economy.

I end with a caveat: I am always wrong. So anyone who disagrees, I don't take it personally.

Great observations.

I also have to wonder if Carl was just kind of disinterested in the BB's and maybe he just didn't feel all that great.

My first impulse is that this sounds terrible.
But if HBO has already give it the green light, their standards for quality are pretty high-- so that's a good sign.

But..... this is for HBO MAX, HBO's answer to Netflix. They need a lot of content to compete so maybe the standards will slip just a bit.

A quick google search brought these links up:

https://bookingagentinfo.com/celebrity/the-beach-boys/

https://mikelove.com/contact/

I know emotions have been running high the past couple weeks, so I'd just encourage everyone sending messages to be polite and respectful. I'd imagine disappointed, well-reasoned BB fan letters will make waves more than angry ranting will. (Not directed at anyone in particular, just thinking out loud.)

Wonder if some venues will get some complaints. Maybe at the New Orleans Jazz fest?

And not sure why the writer chose to bring Dennis Wilson into it (the fact that he hunted.) The man died nearly 40 years ago.

Maybe I’m late, but has anybody else read ESQ’s response to this?

I just read it.  "Why did we choose to hurt the Beach Boys?"

The writer's conclusion is that the fans are to blame for hurting the Beach Boys rather than Mike Love's poor decision.

How about "Why did the holder of the Beach Boys license choose to hurt the Beach Boys?"


And not sure why the writer chose to bring Dennis Wilson into it (the fact that he hunted.) The man died nearly 40 years ago.



Sounds like stockholm syndrome.

Remarkable how the article fails to address Mike's silence, inaction, and effective approval of Don Jr. attempting to publicly humiliate and bully Brian. The article acts as if that just never happened.

Because there's really no way to defend that at all. So better to just ignore it and pretend that didn't actually happen.

Well, it happened. And there's no defending Mike's inaction on that.

Maybe I’m late, but has anybody else read ESQ’s response to this?

I just read it.  "Why did we choose to hurt the Beach Boys?"

The writer's conclusion is that the fans are to blame for hurting the Beach Boys rather than Mike Love's poor decision.

How about "Why did the holder of the Beach Boys license choose to hurt the Beach Boys?"

Sounds like stockholm syndrome.

The constant talking about the lawsuit -- to me-- shows someone who could feel guilty about pursuing the whole thing and/or he feels like a fraud. Either way he's constantly looking for public validation. The truth is NOBODY real cares at this point.

Live in the moment Mike!

I went to a 1993 or 1994 BB show and took my new wife.

She did not know much about the Beach Boys but had really become a big fan of Pet Sounds.

The show started and those cheerleaders came out (California Girls, maybe) and she said "What the fork is this?" and made a beeline for the exit. I convinced her to stay and I'm so glad we did.

This ended up being one of the shows where they did an "unplugged" set in the middle of the show to promote the box set.
 
We are still married and we have enjoyed a couple of Brian Wilson shows since! 

So somewhere there is a recording of Glen, Dean and Mike singing BB songs?

Who played on the backing tracks?

I found tis on the web. It says it is from the Super Bowl 1998.

The infamous day Brian, Carl (near death) and Al watched on tv as the "Beach Boys", to their surprise, performed at the Super Bowl.

I don't know if it's wildly available but I recently found the Super Bowl clip on youtube.. I"d never seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELjvd6Nl870

What a mess

I agree with what you are saying-- but I think it's worth pointing out the movie might not have been made at all if Jakob Dylan hadn't been involved.

I finally watched this on Netflix. As others have said, I enjoyed the anecdotes-- even some I'd heard before--and I especially enjoyed Brian coming into the studio and telling Jakob he was in the wrong key! Brian was quite animated (for him) in his interview, which was nice to see. But there were some key players left out of the story.

Also, I thought it was WAY too much Jakob Dylan. I'm from his generation, and I'm a fan of Beck and Fiona Apple and Regina Spektor, all of whom appeared. But the film purported to be a tribute to this 60s music, yet it kept cutting to Dylan's versions of these classic songs rather than the originals. Yes, I know, it was supposed to be a promo for Jakob's tribute album, blah, blah. Also, the interviews kept cutting to Jakob and his really useless, "Hmms" and "Yeahs." The way the interviews are shot, you see the subject and Jakob sitting next to each other, and it keeps cutting to him for his nothing reactions. The ending credits said "starring" Jakob Dylan" and featuring everyone else. It would have been nice for him to step aside a little bit, especially since he didn't have much to say.

Recently borrowed the DVD from a co-worker, and I gotta say, while I enjoyed the film overall, it was kind of a big let down. There's a few too many significant omissions -- as others have pointed out -- that are hard to ignore. Without getting into a trash-talk session,  Jakob was a very underwhelming host. The biggest disappointment was the (seemingly) uninspired discussions Jakob had with Beck, Cat Power and (I already forgot who the other girl was) over the piles of classic LPs; it seemed like none of them had anything very interesting to say or point out, and they didn't appear particularly excited sitting around the table. Hell, Cat Power hardly said anything after one scene of her singing.

This being said, I thoroughly enjoyed the smattering of anecdotes I was not familiar with (Stephen Stills talking about his party getting busted, or recalling Frank Zappa doing spoken-word recitation of "Who are the Brain Police?" lyrics), Michelle Phillips being very candid about life and (free) love, any segment with David Crosby, Roger/Jim McGuinn or Tom Petty on screen (The Brian Wilson segment is obviously gold, Brian and Croz got me to genuinely laugh watching this), and the live footage of Jakob & Co. performing on stage was actually pretty good, I thought.



I agree it would be cool to have a more comprehensive video documentary of the Laurel Canyon scene.

However, I think this film stands on its own as a snapshot and a celebration.

Jakob Dylan didn't bother me. He was more than a host. He was spearheading the whole deal.




TL;DR: I was way stoked for this over the summer, but watching it was kind of a bummer. I wish they would've taken an approach along the lines of the new Ken Burns Country Music documentary and made a mini-series instead, something like hour long installments to allow for more time to spread the focus over more than a select few of the various influential folks who lived in Laurel Canyon.

And again, nothing against Jakob, but they should've got somebody else to host -- like Dweezil or Moon Unit Zappa -- they only grew up there, and I think both have a little more personality (sorry, Jakob!).

I don't really see the confusion with the lyrics. The 60s had its ups and downs, looking back on it with love is certainly better than looking back with hate. Let's take the Vietnam war or the assassinations, what the hell is the point of looking back with hate and hostility, Let us remember our veterans with love and honor them. Let's look at the good that JFK and MLK stood for while the were still alive. In my point of view, I think that's what the writers had in mind when they wrote the song.

My opinion: the lyrics are terrible due to the obvious rhyming and the lack of nuance.

The lyrics describe a bunch of issues where people were killed and then says "NOW we are looking back with love."

I don't get it. Kind of a privileged vision-- "Weren't the old day's great."

I wonder if some venues won't book a show unless they know it's a Greatest Hits show? Certainly easier to market.
With the "1968" show at least there was a "hook."

Still haven't seen it yet, but will very soon...

And I was literally thrilled beyond words to randomly hear the soundtrack...They have original KHJ airchecks specifically of Real Don Steele as part of the song. The one I heard was Steele doing his usual *brilliant* intro to "Mrs. Robinson", and I literally had no idea the soundtrack was going to feature original KHJ recordings, no less the great Don Steele! His intro featured a classic Steele-ism, the phrase "Simon and Garfunkeling" used as a verb. Love it.

Anyone who knows me knows that for the past 15+ years going back to the old Smile board I've been a KHJ fanatic, in fact a few present and past posters have even gotten some CDR's from my neck of the woods. Check out Real Don Steele, beyond the movie, along with the other classic KHJ hosts like Robert W. Morgan, Humble Harve, Charlie Tuna, Bobby Tripp...it's the best damn radio you'll ever hear, KHJ in the 1960's.

Hearing that soundtrack took the movie up a thousand notches of anticipation for me after the lukewarm media reviews.

Reminded me too of buying the Pulp Fiction soundtrack prior to the movie's release, and loving the music but also trying to decipher what all the dialogue meant.  

EDIT: The soundtrack itself deserves a Grammy, or Oscar, or whatever else...it's pretty amazing in that the majority of it is made from original KHJ radio broadcasts and airchecks, so you get to hear what the music sounded like live on AM radio, with jingles and all. Absolutely brilliant.

Agree! The KHJ bits  are a genius add.

How is it silly to point out what is a stone cold fact as part of a discussion about the man who produced a #1 hit for the band? If it's directed at me, I never tried nor would try to elevate anyone to Brian's level of production and art working with the Beach Boys, yet someone replying to what I wrote made it seem like I did. And I did not, nor would I.

So there's that before calling things silly, sally.


Apologies if it came across that way. I 'm sorry. It wasn't directed at you. I may have misunderstood the discussion. I just consider the Beach Boys of the 60's a completely different band than the 80's. Just my take.

I have high respect for Terry Melcher's work in the 60's.

I never cared for Kokomo. But I thought Somewhere in Japan was nicely done!

What does Terry Melcher is the only " other person who produced a number one hit for the beach boys " have to do with comparing to Brian Wilson?

The Monkees had three number ones hits! Produced by Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart! Jeff Barry! and Chip Douglas!

That means they are all the same! All geniuses!

Hey, the Monkees made great records, and Chip Douglas, in particular, though no Brian Wilson or George Martin, was one of the better producers in the late 60's LA scene. I'd rank him with Curt Boettcher and Lou Adler.

Hey, hey-- was not picking on the Monkees.

I was trying to point out the silliness (my opinion) of saying "only two people produced number one hits for the Beach Boys."

Apples to oranges.

What does Terry Melcher is the only " other person who produced a number one hit for the beach boys " have to do with comparing to Brian Wilson?

The Monkees had three number ones hits! Produced by Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart! Jeff Barry! and Chip Douglas!

That means they are all the same! All geniuses!

I should add that the song overall doesn't bother me too bad-- but those lyrics just try too hard.

I was 15 when this came out and I played for a friend and I remember we were both laughing out loud at these terrible lyrics:

And I'll take ya' boogie boardin' with me
'Cause when we're surfin' it's so great to be free
And when you're on a California beach
You might even find 'em windsurfin' too

In the fifties it was "Hey Daddy O"
Then came the surfers and the Hodads ya' know
We had our woodies and our custom cars
And when we drove around we knew we were bad

My baby listens to my car radio
And when we're cruisin' lets the whole world know
And when our favorite surfin' song comes on
We always let 'em know it's "Totally Rad!"