Mike's musical abilities

[Amanda Hart]

What's the "Our Team" video?

is it this (minus the audio)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6YSihrVvK4

Where and when was that particular video recorded? M.I.U. sessions?

Yes, it is about a half hour thing about the making of the album.  I believe it was made for TV but never actually aired.

[Sheriff John Stone]

What's the "Our Team" video?

is it this (minus the audio)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6YSihrVvK4

Where and when was that particular video recorded? M.I.U. sessions?

Yes, it is about a half hour thing about the making of the album.  I believe it was made for TV but never actually aired.

And it contains a few minutes (especially on the "Mike Come Back To L.A." montage) of the most fascinating Brian Wilson footage - ever.

[phirnis]

Please feel free to elaborate, SJS.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Well, there's a lot of footage of Brian, Mike, and Al in the studio, recording and actually writing some of the MIU songs. And, some of the stuff is interesting. You see Mike without a hat, Al producing, Beach Boys' wives and kids in the background, and, in my opinion, a very lucid Brian.

So, they have this segment of Brian producing the song "Mike Come Back To L.A.", which eventually became "Some Of Your Love" from KTSA. Anyway, it's about a 5-6 minute take of Brian dishing out vocal parts to a number of people; it shows them singing harmony into microphones, Brian's very into it, everybody's having a good time, and the song's starting to gain momentum.

Then, all of a sudden, they intersperse this footage of Brian at the piano, and he's playing the heck out of the piano, directing Mike (and Al?), he's laughing hysterically, vamping with Mike, rocking back and forth, and, just for a minute, you can see the power that the man once had in the studio. It's right there. It's powerful stuff.

I often wonder if that was the real Brian shining through, or if he was stoned. Would've Mike tolerated that at MIU? I guess he would've...But, it's a side of Brian rarely seen, rarely seen by us anyway. I'm the least "technical" guy on this board, but, if I knew how, I'd track it down (on YouTube maybe) and link it/post it. Maybe somebody else has it....

[variable2]

Well, there's a lot of footage of Brian, Mike, and Al in the studio, recording and actually writing some of the MIU songs. And, some of the stuff is interesting. You see Mike without a hat, Al producing, Beach Boys' wives and kids in the background, and, in my opinion, a very lucid Brian.

So, they have this segment of Brian producing the song "Mike Come Back To L.A.", which eventually became "Some Of Your Love" from KTSA. Anyway, it's about a 5-6 minute take of Brian dishing out vocal parts to a number of people; it shows them singing harmony into microphones, Brian's very into it, everybody's having a good time, and the song's starting to gain momentum.

Then, all of a sudden, they intersperse this footage of Brian at the piano, and he's playing the heck out of the piano, directing Mike (and Al?), he's laughing hysterically, vamping with Mike, rocking back and forth, and, just for a minute, you can see the power that the man once had in the studio. It's right there. It's powerful stuff.

I often wonder if that was the real Brian shining through, or if he was stoned. Would've Mike tolerated that at MIU? I guess he would've...But, it's a side of Brian rarely seen, rarely seen by us anyway. I'm the least "technical" guy on this board, but, if I knew how, I'd track it down (on YouTube maybe) and link it/post it. Maybe somebody else has it....

Stoned, Sober, Elated, Depressed.. these are all the real Brian, and the real every one of us.

And, uh, yes, if anyone has this please post it up on youtube?

[Jason]

The "Our Team" documentary was made, I believe, for ABC-TV in 1978, and indeed never aired. It was, however, played at, I believe, a Stomp convention in '79. It does circulate.

[phirnis]

Well, there's a lot of footage of Brian, Mike, and Al in the studio, recording and actually writing some of the MIU songs. And, some of the stuff is interesting. You see Mike without a hat, Al producing, Beach Boys' wives and kids in the background, and, in my opinion, a very lucid Brian.

So, they have this segment of Brian producing the song "Mike Come Back To L.A.", which eventually became "Some Of Your Love" from KTSA. Anyway, it's about a 5-6 minute take of Brian dishing out vocal parts to a number of people; it shows them singing harmony into microphones, Brian's very into it, everybody's having a good time, and the song's starting to gain momentum.

Then, all of a sudden, they intersperse this footage of Brian at the piano, and he's playing the heck out of the piano, directing Mike (and Al?), he's laughing hysterically, vamping with Mike, rocking back and forth, and, just for a minute, you can see the power that the man once had in the studio. It's right there. It's powerful stuff.

I often wonder if that was the real Brian shining through, or if he was stoned. Would've Mike tolerated that at MIU? I guess he would've...But, it's a side of Brian rarely seen, rarely seen by us anyway. I'm the least "technical" guy on this board, but, if I knew how, I'd track it down (on YouTube maybe) and link it/post it. Maybe somebody else has it....

That sounds like something I would totally love to see!

To my ears there's a bit of that "real Brian" in the best moments of the actual M.I.U. Album, like some of his sweet vocal performances. The way you describe the footage from that particular M.I.U. session immediately brought to my mind the story of Brian allegedly being at the top of his game at the initial sessions of what would later become the Light Album. Too bad it obviously didn't last very long.

[Dancing Bear]

MIU is ok. In an universe where Adult/Child is considered a gem, well, MIU is at least a very good album. 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

The reason the Beach Boys meant so much to so many people is the positivity. And that was (Mike Love). Brian was meloncholy. (Mike) was mr positive thinker.

[hypehat]

The reason the Beach Boys meant so much to so many people is the positivity. And that was (Mike Love). Brian was meloncholy. (Mike) was mr positive thinker.

......................................    

[oldsurferdude]

The reason the Beach Boys meant so much to so many people is the positivity. And that was (Mike Love). Brian was meloncholy. (Mike) was mr positive thinker.

   




                                                                              W     T      F   

[nobody]

It's definitely true. Stop a random person on the street and say "The Beach Boys". You won't hear anything about Pet Sounds. You'll get people singing the sunny songs. The only exception : Charles Manson singing "In My Room" to Geraldo Rivera on a televised interview (which is on YouTube).

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Charlie singing In My Room? I will have to watch that!

Do my killing, and my f***ing
Lie awake and snort

Do my panting and my moaning
Laugh at Terry Melcher

[nobody]

Charlie singing In My Room? I will have to watch that!

Do my killing, and my f***ing
Lie awake and snort

Do my panting and my moaning
Laugh at Terry Melcher

He only sings a little bit, but his voice is great. Manson is a good song writer and a charismatic performer on many levels. I think he sung it in the context of a conversation about his generation. He seems forever doomed to explain that he wasn't a kid in the 60s as is often misunderstood due to the propaganda. Charlie's version of Cease To Exist is much better than Dennis and the Beach Boys'. Much darker, more grooving.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I have heard Manson's album. It is kind of a very dark Bob Dylan I think. I thought it was pretty good.

[nobody]

I have heard Manson's album. It is kind of a very dark Bob Dylan I think. I thought it was pretty good.

He has tons of recordings beyond that album. Some is meh, some is very high quality in a freak folk sense.

There's one of his prison recordings ... this one song that he made when they let him have a guitar and tape recorder ... I forget the name of it but it was about fire ... on the track he built up this incredible intensity with his playing and voice that would leave you speechless ... the wildest thing i've ever heard, probably.

oooh i found it on youtube, "i'm on fire", let's give it a listen ay?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQR7NN-TT_Q

[Magic Transistor Radio]

This is interesting. Reminds me more of Tom Waits.

I wonder what the reaction would be if he sang at Woodstock (supposing the Sharon Tate murders never happened)

[nobody]

This is interesting. Reminds me more of Tom Waits.

I wonder what the reaction would be if he sang at Woodstock (supposing the Sharon Tate murders never happened)

Honestly, probably something of significant religious impact. Manson was a very charismatic guy and he had studied religion and mysticism while in prison extensively. Through his own efforts and his interest in Scientology he seems to have freed himself of all his hang ups and become a fairly influential self-actualized man. Despite being physically unimpressive (barely over 5ft tall as I recall, scrawny, and with a mischievous, boyish face behind his hair and beard) he had a magnetic personality. He could walk the walk and talk the talk. I don't think he's all bad vibes either. Manson is the type who, had he not been raised in a prison, had he not got into the drug world, had he kept himself aloof from the rejects of the 60s alternative youth culture, could've been a big player in our world. Clearly a very intelligent man with a deep grasp on himself and others. Wasted talent, though, I say. Clearly that's the case. Some would say that the world could not handle Manson, hence his imprisonment. I say Manson made some bad moves and caused his own downfall. Now he's just a shell of a great man, ruined by his own actions and influence. However the media image of him as fearsome psychopath is all kinds of wrong. The man to talk to is probably as neighborly and loving as anyone else, perhaps more. He's like a little runt the world picked on and prodded for years. Incidentally, much is made of Manson's hypnotic gaze but really, he was nothing compared to someone like Rasputin who, as is clear by ever photograph of him, had truly intense eyes, which were gray I believe. Manson just knew how to morph his expressions like Gurdjieff - nothing special really. I reckon I could take on Manson anyday.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

One of these days he will break out of prison and become the leader of the United Nations. Somehow, everyone will be convinced that he is really a great man. He will cause everyone to get a mark on there hand or forehead. No one will be able to buy or sell with out the mark. The mark is a number. It is the number of a man. Let he who has wisdom calculate the number which adds to 666.

[nobody]

One of these days he will break out of prison and become the leader of the United Nations. Somehow, everyone will be convinced that he is really a great man. He will cause everyone to get a mark on there hand or forehead. No one will be able to buy or sell with out the mark. The mark is a number. It is the number of a man. Let he who has wisdom calculate the number which adds to 666.

heh, funny you should mention that because i think it was either Sandra Good or Lynette Fromme who said that Manson should actually be such a leader

[Dr. Tim]

BIG TIME disagreement with Nobody on Manson's psychopathy.   I've heard his recordings and yes there is some talent there, other professionals were impressed too.   Though he seems to have been too scattershot to knuckle down and do a professional performance.  But once a psychopath, always a psychopath.  The new literature posits that it is a truly organic disorder - in layman's terms, their brains are literally wired differently, their amygdalas (the emotional center of the brain) do not function as normal people's brains do.  It begins to show in childhood, it has been diagnosed in children as young as 5.  A bad upbringing may make it worse, but does not cause it.  They completely lack any empathy for any living thing, and certainly no humans, who they regard as prey to be conquered, or worse.  Yes they are extremely charismatic and are extremely talented at "reading" their audience and telling them what they want to hear - or what the psycho wants them to believe.  Not all are violent (see Bernie Madoff), but they are all highly manipulative (see: Ted Bundy, who was so self-aggrandizing he thought he could lie his way out of the gas chamber up to the very end). And see: Eric Harris of Columbine fame.  There is no cure; therapy makes it worse (they learn that lingo and use it to get what they want). Though as they age, the need to constantly victimize may decrease somewhat, maybe out of fatigue more than anything else.

Now having said all that, nobody is right in surmising that, had Manson not gone the violent route, he could well have become a famous artist or guru-type, and maybe turned out quite wealthy and influential for a time, until his destructive urges finally came out some other way.   See Dave Cullen's book on Columbine for a good summary of the most recent research, with sources.

We discussed this on another thread, I  think the one about Dennis's lost daughter. 

[Rocker]

It's definitely true. Stop a random person on the street and say "The Beach Boys". You won't hear anything about Pet Sounds. You'll get people singing the sunny songs. The only exception : Charles Manson singing "In My Room" to Geraldo Rivera on a televised interview (which is on YouTube).

Could you post a link to that? Would be interesting to hear it

[nobody]

BIG TIME disagreement with Nobody on Manson's psychopathy.   I've heard his recordings and yes there is some talent there, other professionals were impressed too.   Though he seems to have been too scattershot to knuckle down and do a professional performance.  But once a psychopath, always a psychopath.  The new literature posits that it is a truly organic disorder - in layman's terms, their brains are literally wired differently, their amygdalas (the emotional center of the brain) do not function as normal people's brains do.  It begins to show in childhood, it has been diagnosed in children as young as 5.  A bad upbringing may make it worse, but does not cause it.  They completely lack any empathy for any living thing, and certainly no humans, who they regard as prey to be conquered, or worse.  Yes they are extremely charismatic and are extremely talented at "reading" their audience and telling them what they want to hear - or what the psycho wants them to believe.  Not all are violent (see Bernie Madoff), but they are all highly manipulative (see: Ted Bundy, who was so self-aggrandizing he thought he could lie his way out of the gas chamber up to the very end). And see: Eric Harris of Columbine fame.  There is no cure; therapy makes it worse (they learn that lingo and use it to get what they want). Though as they age, the need to constantly victimize may decrease somewhat, maybe out of fatigue more than anything else.

Now having said all that, nobody is right in surmising that, had Manson not gone the violent route, he could well have become a famous artist or guru-type, and maybe turned out quite wealthy and influential for a time, until his destructive urges finally came out some other way.   See Dave Cullen's book on Columbine for a good summary of the most recent research, with sources.

We discussed this on another thread, I  think the one about Dennis's lost daughter. 

You may disagree but I think you have Manson's wrong. Maybe. Ted Bundy? You think Manson is in the same category as him? Hardly. Manson is a puppy compared to Bundy. Manson may have not killed a single person in his life. Maybe one or two in a stick up sort of drug deal gone wrong type of situation where it's practically a survival necessity. And cut some dude's ear off. Who hasn't?! But Bundy? Nah, Manson would even condemn him. That guy went round kidnapping and killing women. Manson attracted women by empowering them over the males around them. He gave them the power that had been taken away from them. Manson is of the opinion that Bugliosi made up tons of the Helter Skelter details to sell the case to the public and make a case out of Manson where there wasn't much of one. Manson's version of the story and the one which seems closest to reality is not that he wanted to start some race war, all that stuff, but that in an act of revenge wanted to send a message to Hollywood, Terry Melcher, etc., and did it through his drugged out kid followers. Tex Watson had only just come down from an incredibly damaging trip on belladonna before they set out the first night. Their minds weren't there - not because they were psychopaths necessarily but because they had been taking so many drugs and living apart from the world that their whole view of life was skewed - not to mention by Manson's admittedly extremist philosophy.

Obviously I'm not excusing any of them or Manson from those murders - they did it, Manson arranged it and played a small hand - but I don't think of Manson as a serial killer like Bundy or any of those people. Manson's psychopathic tendencies are probably more a result of two main things than some elusive brain abnormality : 1) upbringing in prison, knowing the world 'out there' and his world 'in here', observing how that whole thing works, a view from the inside which no doubt changes one's perception on our societies and how people are existing 2) his intelligence and his interest in religion, mysticism, psychology, hypnotism, etc., which he studied in prison before getting out in 1967 and was therefore well-studied and perhaps well-trained in many schools of self-development which are incredibly potent (this explains Manson's unhinged behavior that makes him seem like a live wire compared to others). These two influences have made Manson who he was and probably still is as an old man. When he got out, what was he? Just a bum with a guitar, really. Infiltrated the hippy scene but didn't seem to enjoy it that much. If he did he wouldn't have moved out into the desert and lived as a recluse with his select few close disciples and the other hanger ons that came and went at that time. What did he do with them? Did drugs with them, preached his wild philosophy to them, helped them understand themselves a bit. What did he do there, at the ranch? By all accounts Manson lived fairly simply. I heard he fixed cars for the ranch owner, or fixed up stolen cars that were brought in. Seems like a good handy-man.

In short, I really do think that the popular image of Manson is a media creation and fairly far from the truth. No doubt that Manson is a wild guy but that's due to prison and his personal interests coupled with a sharp uncultured intelligence and charisma. He was the perfect prey for media shock stories and still is. Many an old woman is glued to her television right now cursing Manson while watching some show about him. Fed by the television. All of Manson's zany and wild comments to reporters throughout the years are him playing the media even more. He knows he's doomed so he might as well play with us, reveal our hypocrisies. He gives the media some great quotes to edit and show out of context to make him look villainous. Truth is probably that Manson is a quiet chap who lives in prison and gets along with most everybody there. That reveals who he is more than the obviously inflated story the media has given us, don't you think? If he really were a psychopath then it would shine in the life he's led in prison since the events. But it hasn't. Not much has happened to him in prison. He had his guitar taken away and has been bitching about that for years - understandably, too. Not much else seems to have gone down. He plays softball in the yard. WATCH OUT, THE PSYCHOPATH IS UP TO BAT.

[hypehat]

I believe that the media creation of Manson is of a man who had crazy ideas about Beatles tunes, killed a pregnant woman with assistance of a bunch of drug addled maniacs, and had a bit of a mad haircut. None of which sounds particularly smart, or evident of an 'intelligence'. Care to explain where this deviates from what he is actually like?

[muchacho_playero]

mike love was the 60s s michael jackson with his chicken freaky dance