Brian's decline coinciding with Phil Spector's decline

[clack]

1) Did Brian know about Spector's unreleased "gems"? Unknown. Until you get confirmation you're building your thesis on air.

2) If Brian had known, would he have found it noteworthy? Unlikely. Phil wasn't an artist, or really a songwriter, or even just a producer -- he had a record label, and it was common for labels to have unreleased tracks.

3) SMiLE was unfinished because it had grown too complex. Nothing to do with Spector's retirement, IMO.

[Cam Mott]

Brian didn't withdraw, he plowed on full steam, maybe even fuller steam, through 1968 and on through Friends. Also he didn't "retire", his public let him go by not desiring his best anymore. Everybody's time runs out in Pop and that's what happened to Brian. The bad stuff wasn't a cause of that, it was the result of that imo.

[monicker]

Every time i look at the Back to Mono box and see the chronology, just going down the list of songs and looking at the years, i always note how it’s just straight through from 1960 to 1966, the year of Good Vibrations and it going #1 (a record Phil has disparaged), and then it jumps to 1969, the year Brian really went away. Hmm, i always wonder, did Phil feel defeated by the Ike and Tina stuff, which he thought was his best work, not doing as well as he’d hoped (yes, this is known) and feel bitter and resentful that instead an “edit record” by his protege of sorts went straight to #1? Could Brian's success and later disappearance have possibly played any part in Phil's retreating and then his comeback? I realize that sounds like insecure Brian Wilson fanatic talk, but i can’t help wonder. I mean, it had to have been weird for Phil to see this kid who looked up to him take his production style, use the same musicians and studios, and then climb to the top of the charts, reaching his peak just as Phil was "failing" for the first time in his career.

[Mike's Beard]

I think it just took Phil a couple of years to get over the failure of River Deep... The guy had both a massive ego while also being incredibly insecure, that's a bad combo for dealing with failure. I think Phil bounced back well with the Checkmates Ltd stuff in '69.

[feelsflow]

The last four posts are all good thinking, boy we like to speculate.  If you research a bit, you'll find "not releasing" singles and stuff was very common for Phil in the early 60's too.  I was surprised to find that as great as Walking In The Rain is, it only reached #23 (Billboard) in summer '64.  clack and Cam Mott - Right On, I agree.  For some of us Friends is their Best long-player.  monicker and Mike's Beard, interesting time-line info.  He had plenty going on other than music too.  The Ronnie thing.  They adopted three kids beginning in 1966, and were married in '68.  Or as Ronnie put it, accepted her fate as a prisoner (her words).

Checkmates Ltd. -very good!  And as others have pointed out, Phil did a great job on Let It Be, and with George (Let it Down - the wall-of-sound lives) and John (his best solo releases to me) - save Rock-N-Roll.  That was a mess, but so was John by then.  And I'll add The Ramones - 1980, and he is still working it out...the guns were just a way of dealing with all the pressure, a by-product of greatness

Brian, gentle Brian...he probably looked on aghast.  But still enjoyed the music.  Wonder if he liked that Ramones record.

[CenturyDeprived]

Does anyone know if Brian has ever commented (or even been asked) by any interviewer about his thoughts on Phil's arrest and subsequent conviction? I can't recall any myself.

[CenturyDeprived]

Does anyone know if Brian has ever commented (or even been asked) by any interviewer about his thoughts on Phil's arrest and subsequent conviction? I can't recall any myself.

Nobody replied to this question of mine, so I thought I'd ask again to see if anyone knows...

Does anyone know if Brian has ever commented (or even been asked) by any interviewer about his thoughts on Phil's arrest and subsequent conviction? I can't recall any myself.

[Summer_Days]

Not that I know of. I've always been curious myself.

[Sam_BFC]

I think I remember at the time of the trial he was asked about it and said he didn't believe Spector to be guilty.

[Mike's Beard]

I'm not sure I think Spector is guilty. While the circumstantial evidence against Phil is overwhelming (considering his history with guns) the fact remains that the gunshot wound trajectory is much more likely to have been self inflicted and the lack of blood on Phil makes it highly improbable that he could have pulled the trigger at such a close range.