New Beach Boys release will make you 'SMiLE'

[Cam Mott]

Carl's proposed album would just be mostly Carl's vision of what he wanted back then. Nothing wrong with that but I don't want Carl's vision. I'm not sure I would even rely on Brian/Boys' current memories/wishes for a historic presentation/completion of SMiLE [I would have to talk to them. Have them call me and I'll decide if they are worthy]. I'd still like to hear all of their memories and artifacts about it.

I'd rather the tapes be what they are and just put out there. If the Boys want to take theirs best shot at some sort of "finishing" of the album, by all means, but I'd like to have that kept separate. FWIIW.

[drbeachboy]

It's been stated many times by AGD that Capitol will defer to Brian's wishes regarding The Beach Boys Smile album. It is probably a very safe bet that Brian will have final say on what gets included and how the tapes get prepared for release. BWPS really has nothing to with it, except for maybe, a glimpse of how a finished production of Smile might sound. As for Wonder-Bill, placing that statement right after your first paragraph, suggested that it may have been intended by Carl for inclusion. Just a misinterpretation on my part. On musical content, I doubt that Mike, Al or Bruce will have much, if any say at all. Do they really know Brian's original intent for Smile? Geez, we can't even agree that Brian, himself, knows for sure. You can be sure that Mike will be involved with the liner notes and packaging, etc.

[drbeachboy]

I'd rather the tapes be what they are and just put out there.

Don't we already have this in the form of bootleg releases?

[guitarfool2002]

You can be sure that Mike will be involved with the liner notes and packaging, etc.

As soon as he returns from the "Malt Shop Memories" cruise.

[Bicyclerider]

I agree with Cam that Brian doesn't really know what a 67 Smile would have been like, so for him to try and assemble or finish a "Beach Boys Smile" would just raise more questions than it answers.  However Carl's list represents what Carl remembered about Brian's intentions five years after the recording sessions, as well as his attempt to use the material he and Desper uncovered in their tape search while not repeating everything that had been released.  That gives it some authenticity.

There's no defined order to Carl's Smile any more than to the original 12 track "list" however. Perhaps Desper could be brought on board to help with the project?  Personally I think one person still living has the best idea of what was discussed and planned for Smile, but he's not talking except obliquely- Van Dyke Parks.  Not talking because he does not want to presume to co opt Smile from its' creator, Brian.  Which I understand.  But I believe a frank facts only Van Dyke remembrance of what Brian said and talked about concerning tracks and track order and vision for Smile could be very revealing.

[guitarfool2002]

Great post. Van Dyke at this point in time is *the* best source, unfortunately he speaks in riddles and won't address certain topics. But he could blow the lid off of a handful of Smile myths if he ever opened up.

[Cam Mott]

I imagine that the Boys will offer their opinions and then almost entirely defer to Brian as to whether he uses it or not just as they did in 1967. Still, I hope they all do give their input, opinions and memories and it all is documented.

We may or may not have the tapes already but lots of people don't and I expect that what we may or may not have does not compare to the quality that we would get in an official release.

[drbeachboy]

We may or may not have the tapes already but lots of people don't and I expect that what we may or may not have does not compare to the quality that we would get in an official release.

That was my point. They need to be mixed, not "...just put out there", as you stated. Whatever is released, we will get the best quality achievable, I'm sure.

[Smilin Ed H]

I get the distinct feeling that VDP is into his own mythmaking and his version of events would not be the final word...

[Rocker]

I agree with Cam that Brian doesn't really know what a 67 Smile would have been like, so for him to try and assemble or finish a "Beach Boys Smile" would just raise more questions than it answers.  However Carl's list represents what Carl remembered about Brian's intentions five years after the recording sessions, as well as his attempt to use the material he and Desper uncovered in their tape search while not repeating everything that had been released.  That gives it some authenticity.

Do we know Carl's list? I don't remember seeing it

[rab2591]

I agree with Cam that Brian doesn't really know what a 67 Smile would have been like, so for him to try and assemble or finish a "Beach Boys Smile" would just raise more questions than it answers.  However Carl's list represents what Carl remembered about Brian's intentions five years after the recording sessions, as well as his attempt to use the material he and Desper uncovered in their tape search while not repeating everything that had been released.  That gives it some authenticity.

Do we know Carl's list? I don't remember seeing it

Child Is Father To The Man
Surf's Up
You Are My Sunshine/The Old Master Painter
Barnyard
Cabin Essence (incorporating Who Ran The Iron Horse)
I Love To Say Da Da (incorporating Cool, Cool Water)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
Wonderful
'the Fire suite'
Heroes And Villains (12-minute version)

From AGD's Bellagio

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/unreleased.html

[Rocker]

I agree with Cam that Brian doesn't really know what a 67 Smile would have been like, so for him to try and assemble or finish a "Beach Boys Smile" would just raise more questions than it answers.  However Carl's list represents what Carl remembered about Brian's intentions five years after the recording sessions, as well as his attempt to use the material he and Desper uncovered in their tape search while not repeating everything that had been released.  That gives it some authenticity.

Do we know Carl's list? I don't remember seeing it

Child Is Father To The Man
Surf's Up
You Are My Sunshine/The Old Master Painter
Barnyard
Cabin Essence (incorporating Who Ran The Iron Horse)
I Love To Say Da Da (incorporating Cool, Cool Water)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
Wonderful
'the Fire suite'
Heroes And Villains (12-minute version)

From AGD's Bellagio

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/unreleased.html

Thanks !

[Pretty Funky]

From the notes in BWPS

In the fall of 2003, over 37 years from the moment they had first articulated their original vision, Brian and Van Dyke finished Smile.
     
     David Leaf

To all the fans who have waited all these years for me to finish Smile. I dedicate this to you...... 

     Brian Wilson

Those words seem pretty final to me. Brian and David Leaf would look pretty silly releasing another attempt at a complete version.

It has to be fragments or nothing.

[Roger Ryan]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

[bgas]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

Did Brian/Co have to get the BBs to sign off on him using that, then?

[A Million Units In Jan!]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

Did Brian/Co have to get the BBs to sign off on him using that, then?

I wouldn't think so if they didn't have anything to do with it. There are no BB's vocals on it, and I don't think they're the ones making 'music' with the workshop instruments.

[bgas]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

Did Brian/Co have to get the BBs to sign off on him using that, then?

I wouldn't think so if they didn't have anything to do with it. There are no BB's vocals on it, and I don't think they're the ones making 'music' with the workshop instruments.

Still, it came from material for a "Beach Boys" LP, not a Brian solo;  so my question remains. Did they have to sign off? 

[Jason]

I don't know how many times we've repeated this on this forum, but the Beach Boys signed off their say to the Smile material years ago. Brian has had the final say since at least the mid-90s.

[D409]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

Surely the workshop sound effects on BWPS are a re-creation by the musicians on that album, not flown in/sampled from the original tapes ?

[bgas]

I don't know how many times we've repeated this on this forum, but the Beach Boys signed off their say to the Smile material years ago. Brian has had the final say since at least the mid-90s.

well, OK, thanks, but why do you sound so pissy about it, if you don't even know how many times it's been repeated?   

[Andrew G. Doe]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

No, they didn't.

[bgas]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

No, they didn't.

So did Brian use any of the original workshop ?

[Jason]

The difference is that BWPS was in fact Brian's baby...and he did not use a single second of original recordings from the vault.

Not entirely accurate...the workshop sound effects used on BWPS come straight from the original '66 sessions. 

No, they didn't.

My ears tell me a different story.

[Ebb and Flow]

The track in the center of the stereo image sounds like the original sound effects overdub on "Friday Night", but the effects on the side channels sound like 2004 additions.

[Roger Ryan]

I recall Jeff Foskett being asked if any of the original '66/'67 sessions were being used for the recording of BWPS and he responded with something like "No, we've re-recorded everything...oh, except for the workshop sound effects, we took those from the original recordings, but, hmm...no, nothing else".