The Smiley Smile Message Board

It's long been debated why Brian's voice is in significantly better shape on the M.I.U. ALBUM than on albums before or since (at least until IMAGINATION).  My take on it has often been that a close listen to the songs, particularly the rougher mixes for the Christmas album, reveal that there's a good deal of studio "hiding the pickle" going on with Brian's vocals and they aren't as smooth as they first appear.  But buried deep in Craig Slowinski's marvelous essay on Dennis' BAMBU album comes this nugget:

"As the quality of Dennis' voice continued to deteriorate, vocal coach Bob Rose (who had engineered The Beach Boys' vocal sessions for the M.I.U. Album), was brought in to work with him."

So there was a dedicated engineer (and very probably vocal coach) for the M.I.U. sessions?  If so, this could certainly explain much of the improvement to Brian's vocal performance, coupled with the (presumed) enforced healthier lifestyle in Iowa.  This was news to me, but it makes sense (and the fact that Dennis called him in for just such a purpose strongly suggests that Rose was, in fact, at least partially responsible for Brian's improvement vocals on M.I.U.).

But...........that still doesn't explain to me why Brian's voice sounds like it did in the early seventies on the song "Matchpoint Of Our Love". There's a dramatic difference on that one song only!

I always thought the "Matchpoint" vocals are rather overrated. In reality, it's Brian's MIU voice, with a LOT of polish. Even the falsetto backing vocals are his late seventies version.

In the early seventies, he could still sing in the traditional Brian falsetto. It was much harder to use, I've heard, but he still had it, until at least 1974/1975. The very rare hint of falsetto on Holland doesn't show much decline so far. I believe the Pied Piper voice was achieved though a vibrato. The "Daddy Dear" demo, if sung by Brian, sounds like it would fit right in with the "Awake" demo, save for a section or two.

Even considering the roughness of the falsetto Matchpoint is an albatross. The sweetness of his vocal is very similar to something like Busy Doing Nothin.

Does anyone know David Leaf's whereabouts while this was being recorded?

MIU seemed like a return to the traditional BB mix with Brian's "improved" vocals. While SGR was shrill, Matchpoint and WCOT were enjoyable leads from Brian. But listen to PP-the bv's sound like they did before his voice went down. Nice falsetto on KC and WOC as well.

True. I'd consider Matchpoint a softer version of Winter Symphony as far as the vocals go. Very odd. It could just be chalked up to a good day, I suppose.

Where exactly can Brian's falsetto be heard on Holland? I've listened for it in the harmonies but can never seem to definitively find it.

Brian sings some of the high "na na na's" and "arrrrrrrahhhh's" on Steamboat.

What about She's Got Rhythm? That's his falsetto, yes? Although it is in decline, it is a real falsetto, me thinks. Either that, or he was chemically castrated by a spy of Landy's.

Doesn't Al deserve some credit as he produced the vocals on the album and did a fine job.

What I'd like to know is how someone who in his golden era could precisely match his vocals take after take on the multi-track, who knew lyrical assonance and alliteration, and who knew how to get that right wall of sound feel, could completely loose track of all that within the space of 6 years?

It is not just the damage to his voice, but the complete sloppiness of production that followed afterwards. To the point that the critics do a song and dance when Brian sings on key for more than 2 bars. When I listen to stuff up to Holland I hear rich vocal harmonies, anything after that sounds like the budweiser frogs!! From  wow to woah.

He does the high voice in the tag to Funky Pretty as well as Steamboat. You know, the "Oooo, Funky!". He might be in the vocal blend too, I'm not sure. On the former though, his voice is sped up quite a bit, making it rather girlish. It's pretty much intact, though. He hits the notes quite well.

She's Got Rhythm is indeed his falsetto. You can tell the damage, though. It's also probably one of the last falsetto leads he ever took. He uses the same falsetto essentially, all over 15 Big Ones and Love You AND Adult/Child, though. Harmonies on It's OK, Chapel of Love, I believe Everyone's in Love With You, Casual Look, part of the lead on Back Home, the intro to In the Still of the Night, Let Us Go on This Way, Johnny Carson, the high voice in Solar System, The Night Is So Young, the vocal breakdown in I Wanna Pick You Up, Airplane, Everybody Wants to Live, and It's Trying to Say. (And, of course, Hey Little Tomboy.) On here it's a bit sweeter, though. It's also kinda cheesy in my opinion. You can /tell/ that he's forcing it too hard.

Yeah. The Beach Boys were never the same after Holland. Love You can be forgiven, because it's basically a Brian Wilson demos with some occasional vocals by the Beach Boys.

No one is ever the same after a visit to Holland.

ZING!  8)

He also sings "Funky pretty gone" in his regular non-sped up voice.

Oddly, his vocal parts on So Tough sounded more like 1974-1975 (from what little bits have been heard). Example: the "what's in her head" part on Marcella and especially his line in He Came Down ( the OOOO oooo part) where he sounded like he did on 15 Big Ones (for the longest time I thought it was Dennis).

Is it Brian's faraway falsetto in that bridge in 'My Diane'?

Yeah, that's definitely him. On the subject of that song, too, Dennis has a much smoother vocal than he had before or since. Which lends some weight to the theory that some studio tampering went on behind the scenes.

And yet, on the same album, the tag to "You Need a Mess of Help" has a Brian who could be reasonably considered the same, vocally wise, as before. Odd, very odd. I wish there was some way to bootleg the sessions for the two albums, just to get some isolated vocals. You know, I think I can hear a bit of very quite Brian vocals going along with the tag to Funky Pretty. That, or someone else. Around 2:50 - 2:55, someone gives a "Do do do". Not sure if that's him or not, but it's something I just discovered.

Might the answer be so simple that it eludes us? When I smoked, and had drunk quite a few beers, my voice could really change wildly over the course of the next day. Early in the morning: no falsetto, and a hoarse rasp. After coffee with milk and sugar, and lots of orange juice, it got sweeter and my breathing got better. In the evening, my voice was smooth, and my falsetto was all there (and back than it really was an unusually high one, with a wide range).

The "do do do" is Carl.

Another reason Brian sounded better on MIU is that he was on meidcation for anixiety which relaxed him (those are relaxed mellow leads). Also (and this showed up in several articles at the time) that Stan and Rocky were the ones holding Brian's smokes. They only let him have a few a day. There was on article where Brian wants a smoke and Rocky is saying "hit that high note Brian....again....now another step higher...." just to make sure he wasn't gruff sounding. Then he got his smokes.

Also, in 1979, when the guys were on tour, the would do Hawaii with Brian singing his falsetto part. He wasn't bad either.

Yeah, it's hard to tell with these guys. Being family and all.

While we're on the subject of Holland's backing vocals, do we know who arranged them?  I've always thought steamboat had a very interesting vocal arrangement, which I assumed was Carl, but if Brian was there singing the falsetto might he have participated?  It seems he was often willing to lend a more active hand on Dennis's songs...  Do we know if he's in the mix on Trader, or was that pretty much all carl, because thats also a really cool vocal arrangement, I think.  I've always assumed he was the driving force behind funky pretty, but also that he wasn't really involved in anything else, but is that true?  Might he have had a hand in the california saga: california?  After all, he was there at least long enough to add the first line, might he have been guiding, or was it all carl at that point?  Finally, did Al participate in the california saga arrangements (do we know?)  and did Blondie and ricky help with the vocal arrangements and harmonies as arrangers?  I dunno, I think the process of that time period is really fascinating to me, because the whole band was involved and I'm always curious what exactly brian, carl's roles were, etc.  

Another question:  is Dennis's voice audible anywhere on Holland?  I know he flew off at some point, but I always thought it was odd he didn't sing either of his songs, since his voice was so great during that era (in my opinion).

Edit: person who asked where on Holland brian's falsetto is audible: listen really closely to Steamboat.  It sounds to me like there are places were it's just Brian by himself in the background doing his thing (over mike's bass bom bom boms).

How about "Sunshine" from KTSA?  The little parts (e.g. "When she squeeze me, how she please me" bits).  That's a great example of Brian singing in the late '70s with his fine late '60s-early '70s falsetto voice.

So.................so far the reason "Matchpoint Of Our Love" sounds like Brian in his early 70's voice remains inconclusive. As it always did and probably always will.

I don't know, to me it just sounds like a really good late '70s Brian on that cut, not much different from "Wontcha Come Out Tonight".  But yes, Bob Rose the vocal coach could very well have had something to do with that.  Plus, no smoking and no dope.  And, of course............................TM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dennis's voice is clearly there on Steamboat...don't worry Mr. Fulton...also on Trader bv's... whoa

A combination of not smoking, snorting, and vocal coaching is surely the reason behind Brian's voice on MIU. Its just suprising to hear such rapid deterioration (i.e. is 15 Big Ones/Love You voice), improvement (MIU), and then deteriorating again (L.A. and further).

Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

Jon any idea why Dennis gave his lead vocals over to Carl on his two Holland cuts? Such a shame because it was the last release where he still had his young sounding voice.

I agree, that vocal is definitely not one of Brian's best. It's so shrill. Its not Brian-like, not Frankie Valli-like (I feel like I heard that somewhere), its just...bad. His vocals on "Kona Coast" and "Winds of Change" sound just like that to me. Except that they are not extended, therefore making them bearable, and possibly even good, in my opinion. He just didn't have it in him to do an extended falsetto in the late 70s.



I don't quite see that c-man. That pretty much just sounds like typical late 70s Brian once again, except seemingly lower in the mix. I do seem to notice that on KTSA, Brian seems to be mixed pretty low, whereas Mike seems to really up-front. I know he was the front-man, but it seems on stuff like "Goin' On" and "When Girls Get Together" Mike seems to be way more predominate than he should be. Honestly, I can't even hear Brian on "WGGT". And trust me, I'd love to hear another clear voiced Brian lead. There is never enough. What should I listen for to make me hear Brian easier?

Gotta agree with Mike on this one, Brian's lead on She's Got Rhythm is totally unlistenable, imo.  (We've all heard of Sponge Worthy, well this one is Cringe Worthy.)  But on Matchpoint of Our Love and Wontcha Come Out Tonight Brian sounds fabulous, in fact incredibly good!  He could not have sounded better.  When I first listened to MIU and heard MPOOL and WCOT I remember thinking, wow, Brian sounds great, dramatically better than he did on Love You and 15 Big Ones.  

But maybe Craig has discovered the key ... in the AM and the PM ... Jai Guru Dev!  And I was gonna say I had no idea what Jai Guru Dev means, but I just Googled it and the answer is .......... Victory to the Greatness in you.  Hey -- sounds good to me.  Maybe this is the key to a successful BBs 50th anniv reunion.  Whew, it's time for me to meditate.  If I could only remember my mantra!

Dennis is also singing the bass vocal on "Steamboat", according to Brad Elliott's book (and listening to it, I would agree).  Plus he sings the counterpoint harmony to Carl on the "Only With You" tag ("All I wanna do, oh / Is spend my life with you, ooh").

I always thought, when folk back in 1978 were going "OMG !! Brian's still got his falsetto !!"...

1 - he's screeching...

2 - it was there nearly two years earlier and a lit better: try listening to 15 Big Ones, side 2, second to last track.

Really, if you listen, it's all over 15 Big Ones/Love You/Adult/Child. I think most people startle by it, because it was a falsetto lead, and not just in the harmonies.

And yes, it's horribly shrill. That's the main problem I have with his later falsetto - it sounds like he has to force it. Well, I suppose "Sherry She Needs Me" is a bit of an exception, but it's still vastly different than his earlier falsetto.

I can't stand his vocal on She's Got Rhythm - hw whines and screeches.  Not helped by the fact the song's awful.

I actually don't mind it that much. Mine main problem with M.I.U., is not the fact that they went retro again - I never had gripes with it during 1963. It's that you're always aware that they're a bunch of fat, 30 year old rockers, trying to desperately reach for the innocence of their youth. One of the reasons I like L.A. more.

EDIT: Well, aside from "My Diane" and maybe "Pitter Patter".

Hmmm... I like the song itself a lot. It is very poorly executed and produced, it's not tight at all. It threatens to fall apart. And the vocals are debatable at best. However, try to hear it in your brain as a forceful, driving rocker, Spectorish, with hi-energy vocals (the Crystals? Or the BBs in their 'Today' era?)

I bet it would be gorgeous.

I guess the answer would be that giving leads to Carl on DW songs was not unusual. Carl sang lead on Its About Time, San Miguel, and 4th of July prior to Holland. I think, like most of us, Dennis really dug Carl's voice.

okay here's why:

the secret is on Matchpoint (and on stuff like Busy Doin' Nothing) Brian is singing EXTREMELY quiet, and he is also double-tracked on Matchpoint.  double-tracking quiet singing is a good way to sound like you can actually sing because it masks some tuning and timbre roughness.

Thanks Jon. Do you know if there are any attempts from Dennis singing the lead on "Only with You" floating around out there? I think his POB outtake version is magnificent.

Brian sings very softly at a point on Airplane and it does seem very sweet...Matchpoint-ish almost.

Right...and could it be that he was COACHED to do that?  (Per my original post)

I really like the MIU album, and I love 'She's got rhythm' it's sort of wrong and right at the same time.

"Hmmm... I like the song itself a lot. It is very poorly executed and produced, it's not tight at all. It threatens to fall apart. And the vocals are debatable at best. However, try to hear it in your brain as a forceful, driving rocker, Spectorish, with hi-energy vocals (the Crystals? Or the BBs in their 'Today' era?)"

They should've moved on from there.  I hate most of the album, much more than 15 BO, but I love My Diane and Pitter Patter and I don't mind Winds of Change - at least it has some ambition and I like the tag, despite Al's vocals, which have to be his worst. I don't mind Woncha Come Out Tonight.  The covers should've stayed on 15 BO. The rest, I skip.

I know I'm late on this thread, but here's my explanation for Brian's "sweeter" vocals on "Matchpoint Of Our Love"  (wow, did it hurt to type that title...) and, for that matter, "Won'tcha Come Out Tonight:"

They have a pretty low vocal range, so of course Brian's not going to sound bad.

You just inspired me to give the song a re-listen. I notice that Mike's vocal sounds incredibly unenthusiastic and phoned-in; Brian's vocal is, to my ears, his quintessential late 70's falsetto.

I can envision this track as you say - a spectorish rocker - and it would definitely be more interesting. Perhaps the reason it seems to be falling apart is, in part, because of Mike's lackluster vocal? With all the opinions out there about Mike, I've never heard him accused of sounding apathetic .. this is the first time that he's sounded to me like he is falling asleep at the microphone. I'm surprised he let this vocal take onto the album!

I love the balls to the wall crazy falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm". It's not pretty, it's not smooth, but it still has a lot of energy and is just weird enough to work.

Also, I know the Byron and Jeff were at MIU during the recording. Jeff told me he walked by some room (no the studio) and Brian was playing the piano and singing in a falsetto voice that sounded like his early self. He did not sound that way in the studio, tho.

Thanks to the OP for reminding me of this article written by Bob Rose about his experience with the Beach Boys at M.I.U. in the Winter of '77:

http://www.indie-music.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3111

Interesting that he clearly states they were working not only on their final album for Warner's, but also their Caribou debut at the time.  The only conclusion I could come to is that the Christmas album was to be the last for the old label, with M.I.U. (or Our Team or whatever they were calling it at the time) originally slated to go to CBS.

Yes, that's correct.  Warners rejected the Christmas platter, Guercio didn't think too highly of MIU Album, and so Warners got it by default.

I was told that the reason Carl sang Dennis' songs on HOLLAND were that Dennis had left the sessions by that point, and was camping out on the Canary Islands, leaving Carl to finish his tracks.  I don't know if that's strictly true on a micro level, but that's what I had heard.  It would make sense.

I think that scenario might be open to question. Firstly, the only source I recall seeing for the 'Xmas album rejected story' is from Brad Elliott's book in '81, and frankly, the timeline is entirely unconvincing: record a 1977 Xmas album in October/November of the same year ?

Further, the sessions in Iowa were actually November/December, not October/November, and the California Feeling master was assembled (twice) in December 1977 (24th & 29th), while MIU itself was mastered in April 1978 for an September release. No sign of any Xmas album ever being assembled, much less delivered. As I recall the whole idea of the Iowa escapade was that the band signed to Caribou not realising that they still owed Reprise one more album and when this was pointed out, they needed to come up with product and fast. Further, not only were they cutting Xmas and non-seasonal tracks in tandem at MIU (thus disproving the original belief that MIU evolved from the aborted holiday projected), but also Celebration tracks for the Almost Summer movie and even a couple of American Spring titles. I don't think there was any overall, coherent plan (well, this is The Beach Boys after all...).

Comments ? Objections ? Better reading ?  All welcome.  :)

Interesting.  I always thought the Christmas album turning into M.I.U. didn't make much sense.  Too many of the tracks sound like they evolved the other way around.

Here's the Iowa 1977 session dates and titles (Xmas songs in green:

November:
  7 - session: Little Girl (=Wontcha Come Out Tonight)/She's Got Rhythm/Burlesque
  8 - session: Matchpoint Of Our Love
14 - session: She's Got Rhythm/Santa's Got An Airplane
15 - session: Winter Symphony/Our Team/How's About A Little Bit
16 - American Spring session: Don't Be Cruel/Baby (I Could Be So Good At Loving You)
17 - session #1: Goin' To Get That Girl
       session #2: Alone On Christmas Day
       session #3: Beach Burlesque/Wontcha Come Out Tonight
18 - session #1: Sunday Kinda Love/Matchpoint Of Our Love/Egypt
       session #2: Why/Matchpoint Of Our Love/Egypt
       session #3: Bells Of Christmas/Hawaii Christmas (= Melekalikimaka)/Pitter Patter
21 - session #1 (Celebration): Sad, Sad Summer/Almost Summer/Cruisin'
       session #2 (Celebration): Chief Joseph/Sad, Sad Summer
       session #3: Winter Symphony/Goin' To Get That Girl
22 - session: Winter Symphony/Alone On Christmas Day
22 - Dennis Wilson session: Merry Christmas (=Morning Christmas) [Brother]
23 - session: Sad, Sad Christmas/Winds Of Change/Christmas Medley
?? - Mike Love session: TM Siddhi Program

December   :
  2 - session: Matchpoint Of Our Love/Sunday Kinda Love
  3 - session: Little Girl (=Wontcha Come Out Tonight)/She's Got Rhythm
  4 - session: Pitter Patter/Our Team/How's About A Little Bit

Well...IF we can trust the dates on the AFM contracts...   :)   I'm hoping this isn't another case (as with Holland) of the contracts being drawn up after the fact, with faked dates.   

All I can say:     Child Of Winter

This has nothing to do with the Christmas album issue, but may I ask, is "Burlesque" or "Beach Burlesque" the same track of Brian's that Jack Reiley said was so great from the early 70s? Maybe CATP era? Idk, just noticed that though.

This is true... there will always be the question of AFM accuracy. [sigh] Life is seldom simple.

The Real Beach Boy book does mention that Dennis stayed in the Canary Islands while the others were in Holland...so it must be true. Blondie told me he went back and forth, he'd just show up, work a bit and then leave again.

I thought that too, but no, turns out they're entirely different songs.

The more I've been listening to these songs I think its the case that its simply because he was singing more soft (as a fellow here mentioned earlier). If you listen to Airplane off of Love You, pay attention to the way Brian says "carefully" and "guy" after both his falsetto parts. Its very sweet and sounds almost like his MIU voice. It wouldn't be so suprising that with better production and a period of time without cigarettes he could sound quite good. + he's not belting out his vocals like he did on 15 Big Ones and Love You.
That also explains why his falsetto is very close to his 15 Big Ones/Love You falsetto. There he is screeching out his vocal so its not as smooth. This is very apparent on Wontcha Come Out Tonight.

Actually, now that I think about it, is there even proof that "Burlesque" song was ever recorded? Or exists? I don't think its in your recording history, never really heard it mentioned besides the Reiley thing, and I just find it hard to believe the guys wouldn't just eat up any new song Brian gave them. Maybe this song was just too much for them though. Do we have an approximate date for that song? Surf's Up era? CATP era? Hmm.

From the original "Jack Rieley Speaks" (which you can still read via Google cache):

First mention of Burlesque (JFR III version) I'm aware of is in 1972. Assuming what he sang to me summer 1982 was reasonably accurate, the 1977 song isn't the same one.

But do we have reason to believe it was indeed recorded? Did our beloved vault-combers ever come across it? Seems like possibly something that could be included on a future rarities set. A completed Brian/Beach Boys track from '72? Not something we have much of besides "You Need A Mess Of Help", "Marcella", and "Funky Pretty".

And yeah, I definitely agree with you AGD. I wouldn't for a second believe that the '77 "Burlesque" had anything to do with the '72 one, seeing as Mike seemed firmly in charge at MIU, its doubtful they'd dig up a 5-year old Brian song he disliked, no matter the lack of good Brian material available.

There is a video of Dennis singing "Only With You". They say it's from a tv show rehearsal.
Dennis says "Carl was suppose to sing it but……he chickened out folks". It seems Murry was in the audience that night.

If you wanna see that video check the "Good Timin’ w/ Dennis on lead?" thread.



You see what I have done here?  

Did Dennis ever get the opportunity on stage to go over to Myke and knock his turban off his friggin' bald head?? Long, tree, til, surfs, flows-Brian and Carl at their best and the King of Clowns thought they were trivial? No, Jack, what was really fascinating was that they didn't jettison Luhv over a SoCal refinery back in the late 60's when he started to be phased out by Brian.

Well, I dunno, the lyrics to both of the Carl tunes on Surf's Up are pretty shitty. They're purdy-soundin' songs though, gotta give 'em that!

"pretty shitty"

Really?

Yes, "pretty shitty". They make little sense and although I'm sure (or hope, at least) that they were selected to sound good above all else, that they're basically psychobabble taken at random from a rhyming dictionary by Reiley -- and mixed pretty near to the front so you can't just get taken in by the sound of Carl's vocalising them -- makes me unable to ignore how terrible the actual lyrics are. It wouldn't have been too hard to make some lyrics that were not so awful. Michael Love can write better lyrics than those. Mike Love.

Agreed. The lyrics to "Feel Flows" and "Long Promised Road" are laughably bad. It always surprises me that more people don't give them the ridicule they deserve -- "So hard to laugh a childlike giggle" -- really?

Wow...with all of the frighteningly bad lyrics in the Beach Boys catalog (mostly from Mike and Brian) you think these two stand out? I'd say they are about average, maybe LPR is above average. Love wrote so many embarrassing lyrics it actually makes it difficult to be a Beach Boys fan and not get made fun of by other people. That's an accomplishment. I doubt anyone is gonna ever ridicule you for liking LPR. But the list of ridicule worthy Love lyrics is decades long. And yeah...he wrote some good ones too...no lie.

Sure, if you isolate them from the songs, they're not that good. But... can you imagine "FF" or "LPR" with different words ?  Anyway, the words don't matter, it's the impression, the effect.

And since were talking 'laughably bad' lyrics here - "My friend Bob/he has a job", anyone ?

That wasn't actually released on a BB album, though, was it?

Bad Beach Boys lyrics could be a whole other thread....

Gee, can't guess why not...  ::)

Two-step sidestep, anyone? :D

Y'know the old cliche 'That Carl Wilson sings so fine, I could listen to him sing a shopping list!'

Well, Feel Flows and Long Promised Road are the closest we have....  ;D

They're just words that sound good coming out his mouth, which seeing as he and Reilly were blasted on coke whilst writing them, is probably all the consideration they got. I like those songs, but the lyrics might be the worst part. I would advise anyone dissing Reilly's lyricism to remember 'The Trader' (especially the second section) and 'Life Of A Tree'.... his best, i think.

No-one else really inspired Carl to write until about 78, though, so how bad was Reilly really? (not easy to say, that)

Mike Love has written MANY bad lyrics. I can't believe, even as hardcore fans, that this is being disputed.

I think I can hear it through the layers of years gone by-wait! No it cannot really be...they wouldn't, no they didn't...
don't tell me that-don't even pretend !-Feel Flows, The Trader, Long Promised Road and even The Day in the Life of a Tree-with LYRICS BY MYK LUHV. "oh if we only could start over again".

I'll defend Rieley's lyrics on CW's songs...

While they could be considered "pretentious" and a bit rambling, it's a nice change of pace to have some $25 words in BB lyrics, which is sort of how I feel about some of VDP's lyrics on BW's songs.

I'd take some literate pretentiousness over the extreme cheese that has too often plagued otherwise stellar BB backing tracks (Salt Lake City anyone?) (I know, different era, different vibe, but man do those lyrics suck, you don't rhyme Salt Lake with Salt Lake :)

Thank you, thank you, thank you... for spelling Jack RIELEY's last name correctly!!

I googled the spelling first!

I have no issues with the lyrics to FF and LPR.  I am however interested in hearing which Mike Love penned lyrics were embassingly bad by the time of the Surf's Up album.  After Holland is another story but prior to 71 which ones are the real stinkers.

Beach Boys Lovin Bob

The lyrics to "Feel Flows" and "Long Promised Road" are definitely pretentious. Do you know why? Because they pretend to be something they're not. What is it that they pretend? Literariness. Do you know why? Because they make no sense and have no meaning for something that is supposedly "literate". Yeah, the Beach Boys -- all of them individually and collectively as a group -- are not known for intelligent lyrics per se, but they are for the most part perfectly adept at expressing universal sentiments in ordinary language. Heck, the lyrics to "Don't Go Near The Water", "Big Sur", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", and "Take A Load Off Your Feet" are superior to either of Carl's songs because these two previously-mentioned qualities (more or less) obtain. The Boys were (and are) anti-intellectual in a very good way, I think, and I suspect they knew that.

Student Demonstration Time and Don't Go Near the Water. For the latter, it nearly ruins the song, because the melody is actually great on it. At least the former is a COMPLETE pile of feces.

He Come Down is pretty bad too.

This is, exactly, why I hate those two sets of lyrics so very, very much.

Van Dyke, for all of his literary bent, wrote lyrics that actually had meaning -- sometimes layers of it. His words sounded good, yes, but they rewarded deeper inspection. He was playing a dangerous game with a song like Surf's Up, though -- and he knew it.

Because the temptation is, when people see dense, good-sounding poetry, to think that it's all about those good sounds, the aural sensations. The meaning -- however carefully threaded through -- can be too easily lost. So someone like Jack R. comes along, and tries to ape the style without saying or meaning anything. And you get songs that are actually empty. All of the meaning in FF or LPR is conveyed through Carl's performance. Virtually nothing through the words.

This isn't to say Jack didn't have some chops. I think Trader (it has a subject!) actually works, as does some of Funky Pretty.

I think Long Promised Road is one of the better compositions I have heard. There is more meaning and depth in this song than most of us could come up with.

"LPR" & "FF" are, undeniably, a bitch to actually sing, even with a cheat sheet, but singing "Trader" is just a complete blast. Like "Sail On, Sailor", it pretty well sings itself, actually.

What does anyone think a Bob Dylan penned song custom made for the BB from that time period would've sound like?

GREAT point on SOS, Andrew, it's blast!

I think the words to Feel Flows are beautiful. May not translate too well on paper, but the way they meld and flow as Carl sings them makes them transend all literary meaning. They just become an expression of feeling which is probably exactly what Carl and Jack were aiming for.

I love Jack Rieley's lyrics.  They flow beautifully with Carl's voice; as mike's beard said, they don't look great on paper, but that's true of almost all wordy lyrics.  Even Dylan at his best often looks awkward on paper...visions of johanna comes to mind; song lyrics and poetry just aren't the same thing.  And I think the meaning definitely comes across in both songs.  In Long Promised Road the sense of how life can drag you down but you somehow find the will to keep going and even to succeed, and how that is powerful and beautiful, and also a little sad, because there's definitely a part of you that wants to give up. 

I think Trader, though, is one of the greatest songs ever written, music and lyrics.  Really. 
Here you have a band, which spent a good part of their career celebrating a vision of california which was very much a twist no the frontier myth in the United States, this idea of endless possibility, building a new life in california, a middle class expanding to include everybody, etc.  And part of what made their music so powerful was in celebrating this distinctly american ideal, they tapped into a universal joy and love, and also tapped into a deep sense of sorrow and longing, rooted in part in the fact that the american dream was and is a mirage in many ways.  And then you have this same band, a few years later, looking back at this myth, and saying, well, what were the costs, what does it mean that entire peoples were literally exterminated to make room for this ethic of progress and manifest destiny.  And the Beach Boys do a better job of confronting this question, as white people, as americans, than almost any one else I've ever heard.  In the first part of the song they tell the story with words, and as you listen to it the story propels along and you get in your head what happened, and all the questions it raises about colonialism and the cost of american expansionism etc. etc., and then there's a momentary pause, and Carl Wilson tries to answer those questions, and because they're such hard questions, and they don't have good answers, he answers them spiritually.  At this point the lyrics seek to matter, they stop telling a story and start going on about making it softly and finding reason to live, and there are these amazing harmonies and it just, makes the politics real, and tries to confront these issues spiritually in a way no other popular artist of the time, to my knowledge, ever did. 

In my opinion, if the Beach Boys reputation rested solely on this song and it was all they ever released, they would still be an incredibly important band, because of all the musicians who then and to this day have written about poverty and political issues, no one has succeeded they way they did at taking an incredibly difficult political topic, and confronting it musically so that the music actually tried to address the question, rather than the usual approach which was to graft political lyrics on ordinary songs. 

So yea, I think pretty highly of the Carl Wilson/Jack Rieley partnership. 

I think you've done a stellar job of nailing down "The Trader" with that post.

"No-one else really inspired Carl to write until about 78"

No-one else inspired Carl to write anything that good. Ever.

Evie Sands would beg to differ!

Which reminds me - must have a word with young Ms. Sands. Since hearing the version she did with some disreputable bar band, I now find myself using her phrasing, and that just confuses the hell out of everyone. Especially me.  :o